Srecko Sostar

Maybe what Rando is doing is just an overreaction, similar to the ones about 1914, 1918/19, 1925, 1941, 1975 and everything/all other after that?  

WTJWorg eschatology in action. 

Certainly, people will eat, drink, marry, build and plant. Some/many of them will be struck by trouble, because trouble is a part of life in the world as we know it. Some of the troubles that have happened or are happening today, have been / are at the local or even global area / level. This allows for interpretations / overreactions followed by disappointments many times over. 

Do not swing the bags
Do not lift and lower the bags abruptly
Do not overload

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

What you do not seem to know is that Russel was NOT part of the slave.

Says who?

I am not advocating for or against a thesis on the subject. But it’s always interesting to see how WTJWorg’s daily politics infiltrate where it doesn’t belong, because WTJWorg scholars have no way of knowing where Russell belongs.
WTJWorg claims that there was always a Witnesses for YHVH between the First Century and the Nineteenth Century. If there were any in any form, they may have existed as some individuals or smaller groups, for example.
But again, WTJWorg has the constant thesis that YHVH has always had an Organization on Earth. If this claim is true, then YHVH had one or more Organizations (19) 20 centuries apart (in a span of (19) 20 centuries). So what were the names of those organizations that existed before the WT? If you do not know of any such Organization, then you cannot claim that YHVH has always had an Organization on Earth. If you cannot prove any of these theses, then you cannot prove either who was and who was not a member of the YHVH recognized Organization, nor whether he belonged to a "large or small flock".

According to GB teaching, the task of the “slave” is to share spiritual food. Well, how dare you say that between the 1st and 19th century no one shared the “spiritual food” and teachings of Jesus Christ? :))

Your statement is funny :)) because Russell did exactly same thing as GB today. He shared and they share interpretations on Bible text.

10 hours ago, Witness said:

On 7/29/2021 at 4:13 PM, Kick_Faceinator said:

"Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us." 2 thess 2:2

"BACK in 1914, Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom, and the Lord’s day began." - w88 10/15 pp. 15-20

I have to share this quip from GB D. Splane's convention talk on apostates and the news medial.  

"Now, Paul compares the Beroeans with the Thessalonians. What do we know about the Thessalonians? They didn’t have YouTube in those days, but at one point, the Thessalonians apparently heard a rumor that “the day of Jehovah” had arrived. Who circulated the rumor? An apostate? Maybe. But maybe it was just someone who had heard the rumor and passed it on without checking it out.

APPARENTLY heard a rumor?

Have you ever done that — passed on a report without checking the facts? I think all of us have to admit that we’ve been guilty of that at one time or another. But now, how did the Thessalonians react? They were alarmed. They were “quickly shaken from [their] reason.” We mustn’t let that happen to us. When you hear something, check it out; don’t just circulate it; don’t just believe it; check it out."

All checked out, as you have done, and it isn't a rumor.  We can continue to circulate it. 

Many doctrines and expectations that were and still are a product and fruit of WTJWorg theology belong to the group of “rumors”. For everything they claimed to be or will be the result of their beliefs and hopes and expectations and interpretations, and in fact disappeared with the sun’s rays of a new day, it falls under “rumors”.
Consequently , the instruction given from the podium of the JW Congress or otherwise, is aimed at themselves, against themselves, and not at the ex-JW and / or apostates.
Unfortunately, “fried/burnt/cauterized brain” is a feature of most JW members, as it prevents them from seeing what is behind the visible and declarative.

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Not really - we know what it will not be upbuilding - if we take account of your track record. 

Thanks for reaction  

I believe you will be interested in watching or actually listening to this video.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

No - because the wheat is the anointed and not all the anointed were collected in Jesus's time.

Who claims that?

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

This woman is NOT the anointed  (the bride is spoken of betrothed to christ) but this same heavenly woman is prophesied in Genesis 3:15. She would bring forth the SEED that eventually would crush Satan's head!   Paul calls the main part of the seed - the Christ.  So this seed christ comes from this heavenly woman. So does it refer to an earthly woman or a heavenly one?  Well - since Satan also has heavenly seed - or angels who fight against the heavenly SEED of Jehovah it stands to reason an earthly woman does not have power to fight spirit beings.  So this is a heavenly woman that is often spoken of in the bible as a wife of Jehovah and he is her husbandly owner.   It is his heavenly organization from where Jesus came to earth.   

The Bible gives various descriptions of the relationship between God and man. An interpretation of symbolic descriptions that is not explained in the biblical text itself can very easily lead to errors, wrong ideas and misconceptions.

Who is a woman/wife to whom, and who is a bride to whom or a child to which parents can lead to complications. If JHVH has a "wife", then I guess he has a "child" with her. If Jesus has a "bride" to marry, then I guess he will have a "child" with her too. :)) 

According to the old law, only male children are counted. What is the relationship between these two "sons", from YHVH and from Jesus? What is the relationship of their "wives"? 

God's law knows the institute of divorce. Both in symbolic marriage and description, there was a divorce between YHVH and his earthly wife. You say God has a heavenly wife. So God has or had two wives, one in heaven and the other on earth. Will there be a divorce between Jesus and his bride / wife when Jesus returns all authority to his Father? I think it all gets complicated to understand.  

On 7/18/2021 at 3:11 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I laughed, but in reality it's very sad. 

Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. ³⁸  Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”

This was in the time Jesus was here on Earth. Why can't the GB / Leaders see this ?

Because they are not guided or inspired of God's Holy Spirit  

I looked at Matthew chapters 9 and 10. The context shows that at that time, in fact, only Jesus was preaching the Kingdom and performing miracles.  35 Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 

And then we have verses: 36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38 Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”

Next chapter starting with verse: Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.  .....and  also As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’  .... with again: 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

"The harvest" was already over. And the separation of the wheat from the chaff happened in its final act in 70 AD after the fall of the Temple and Jerusalem. It could very easily be that the "harvest and separation" takes place constantly and continuously. Because people over and over again making a choice/selection and ending their lives in one of their choices, in one of their various states; spiritual or emotional or psychic, which are the basis for “God’s (final) judgment”. 

But then we also have the idea of the final "global resurrection" (vs or despite final "global destruction"), of all the just and the unjust people who are given a new opportunity to make new choice.

On 7/27/2021 at 2:52 AM, Kick_Faceinator said:

This is why the woman/anointed body of Christ flees to the wilderness.

“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days” Rev 12:6

Reading the biblical passages, commentaries, and teachings of WTJWorg, I come to further questions.

WTJWorg claims that the anointed (remaining of the literal number 144,000) are in their Organization. The Bible claims that the anointed flee from Satan and seek salvation in the "wilderness", because God has found refuge there, for her.

But on the other hand WTJWorg and JW claim and believe they are in a “spiritual paradise”. So then I ask; 1) How did the symbolic “desert” (place of salvation) become a literal “spiritual paradise” (place of salvation like Noah’s ark) !?

2) Is WTJWorg a “desert” or a “paradise”? Because there is a “woman” there, that is, there are supposedly all the anointed ones.

What is “desert” in biblical terminology? What does that word mean according to dictionaries? For example, the dictionary ( Merriam Webster) says this for that word:

1a(1): a tract or region uncultivated and uninhabited by human beings

(2): an area essentially undisturbed by human activity together with its naturally developed life community

b: an empty or pathless area or region in remote wildernesses of space groups of nebulae are found— G. W. Gray †1960

c: a part of a garden devoted to wild growth

2 obsolete : wild or uncultivated state

3a: a confusing multitude or mass : an indefinitely great number or quantity, I would not have given it for a wilderness of monkeys— William Shakespeare

b: a bewildering situation

Definition of bewildering

: extremely confusing or difficult to understand

Explaining Rev. 12, WTJWorg says that a woman gave birth to a son, and that son is the Kingdom that was born in 1914, as JW's believes.

3) But the Kingdom is/are also the anointed (and not just Jesus Christ as King) who continued to live in the “wilderness”. How is that possible? Where is the Kingdom? In the heaven? In the desert? In WTJWorg? In the hearts of believers?

4) Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. - Rev 12:17 The Bible says that a "woman" gave birth to only one son, and that is the Kingdom, according to WTJWorg interpretation. Because "women" is/are all anointed. The "woman" did not give birth to anointed ones. They (anointed) are the Kingdom, they are Anointed who gave birth to son aka Kingdom.  Who else did the "woman" give birth to and how? 

THE BIBLE SAYS:

What is God’s Kingdom?

It is a heavenly government ruled by Jesus Christ as King. - https://www.jw.org/ase/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2020-may-jun/gods-kingdom-what-is-it/

According to the WTJWorg interpretation, Kingdom was established in 1914 and Christ began to rule as King in 1914. However, this is questionable because He cannot rule alone. He needs (literal number in JW religion) 144,000 kings and priests. Since the JW's believe that thousands of anointed are still on Earth, this means that the Kingdom could not have been born in 1914, nor could it have begun to rule in 1914. The Kingdom does not have a complete Administration to be a legal and legitimate authority. 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Well, we know that the ancient physical temples were sacred because they signified the presence of God among His people. But more than that, He allowed His Spirit to “fill the Temple” as we see in Solomon’s dedication of the temple he built. (2Chron 5:13,14)   His Spirit also filled the early moveable tabernacle, and He dwelt with His people.  (Exod 25:8)

It is the same with the anointed as God’s Temple.  Individually, they are the temple, since their heart is the home/ dwelling of God’s Spirit. (John 14:17; 1 Cor 3:16; Rom 8:9,11) But, as “living stones” they also together, are part of and represent the entire Temple. (1 Pet 2:Eph 2:22; Heb 3:6)

This excellent explanation give so strong and irrefragable argument against GB unreasonable ideas of how people today cannot be inspired by HS. GB’s silly replacement of the thesis that they are “guided” by the spirit is nothing more than an attempt to justify every nonsense they teach people while remaining in positions of power and authority, they and their elders. I believe that for HS there is no obstacle to “filling the heart” of every individual to whom the Father shows love, whether he/she belongs to a "large or a small flock".

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It seems that Adam knew obedience / disobedience, and Adam knew consequence of each. 

Eve however ??? 

Reading WTJWorg interpretations and even some biblical passages about Adam and Eve, one might come to the conclusion that Eve was quite unprepared for the challenges she was faced with. If it were true that Eve was intellectually and spiritually "immature" or "less mature" than Adam, then the question is why she should have been punished with the same measure as Adam who, just because he is a man/male, should have known what was going on in his family, and not to leave Eve alone to talk to the serpent. So the question is; Where was he and what was Adam doing while Eve was talking to the serpent and reaping the fruit? By the way women, female in general, were treated, in OT, NT and in WTJWorg today, then really all the blame for everything in the world is only on men.

14 hours ago, John Houston said:

That was wordy. It made sense, but no truth rang true in it.

I am confused a little with your resume, how words of mine "made sense" but without any truth in them. Perhaps your choice of words was wrong then, or you making fun of me. 

When JW members read GB publications, then everything "makes sense", to them, and no one sees a single lie in them, everything is “true,” every word “makes sense”. When such a doctrine changes then again everything “makes sense” and no one says they believed in delusion until then. If you also belong to such a group of JW people, then it will be difficult for me to accept the justification of a comment in which you did not bring some important and new elements that confirm your position and refute my ideas.  

45 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Says the expert! I bet you cannot prove why they are wrong! You will need some other person on here to try to prove it!

“The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.”  - wt 2017

No one needs to prove that. This fact is not refuted even by GB. And they alone explained why they are wrong, in quote above. :))

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

God was grieved because he does not want any to die....

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”

According to this report in Genesis, situation described speaks differently. After, in NT, we see other sort of feelings and emotions for human.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

You read to much in it - to call it a "state". ... it seems like you compare god to an overemotional female.

Do not forget how female was created in the image of God. So yes, perhaps it is not far away from your observation that sometimes God (has right to) react as "overemotional female" and Genesis 6:6,7 is exactly what was happened . :))

If He want to destroy fallen angels who materialized and their offspring of giants who made evil things, what was so difficult for Him to be selective in punishment? JW people have expectation how that will happen in Armageddon - selective destruction. And Noah Days are used as example of why and how God will act in Armageddon, but without water (flood). 

Initial rebellion started with "snake" aka devil. Continue with First People. At what stage were the other angels while this was happening, there is no record of it. It is not until Noah's day that angels who longed for earthly pleasures are described. Their action does not say that they rebelled against God in the way that the devil did. Their motives were different. They did not say that God was lying, as the serpent said. They did not promise anyone that they would be like gods. They didn't say how people will not dye if act independently from God. Their rebellion had different reasons. 

Perhaps what they saw happening in Eden and how satan goes unpunished for his insolence was an additional motive for them to indulge in illicit behavior as well. In fact, when the Bible says that evil multiplies because transgressors are not punished immediately, and that they therefore continue to do evil, then there is a great responsibility on God Himself who failed to punish the guilty who can be punished by none other than Him. For, it was not just about human hearts boiling to do evil, but about the hearts of angels. When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong - Eccl 8

56 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

You are wrong Arauna .... the Scripture clearly states that it never came into Jehovah's mind that they would do such a thing as sacrifice their own children, burning them to death.

Be a sport ... look it up.

Jehovah was surprised!

JHVH was surprised in several situations. In Eden, after Adam and Eve disappointed Him so much. After, Genesis said: And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. A person who knows what to expect from others would not be in such a difficult emotional state, so that like God, he begins to destroy everything he has created, nature, animals and people.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

It does not mean that he did not foresee the possibility.

WTJWorg try to explain all God's actions with "love". If he destroy wicked people that is because of love. If he not want to destroy wicked people that is because of love, again. If he allow injustice and suffer, that is because of love. If he destroy devil that is because because of love and because of "universal issue". Well, it seems how "universal issue" is also responsible for God's passivity in time before Eden and in Eden. Because, devil rebellion not started in Eden, for sure. 

According to the WTJWorg interpretation, nowhere in the universe is there life except on Earth and around a God surrounded by angels. Thus, life is concentrated, according to GB, in only two "locations". This very knowledge limits the very thesis of the "universal issue," and gives the possibility that God did not have such a great need to delay the punishment of transgressors of his law. After all, he punished Adam and Eve with death. What prevented him from treating the rebellious angels in the same way? A different law? A different attitude towards angels compared to people?

Are angels just as intellectually limited as humans, so that God should have given them time to prove that the devil was wrong? They see God every day, so they don’t need faith like people do, to believe in an invisible God and what happened in history. People is expected to believe in events that happened before their lives or even in their life time.

 How to understand the absurd fact that God "implanted" in animals the "fear of man" (generally speaking), but no mosquito is afraid of any man, but persistently wants to drink his blood?

Likewise, it is difficult to understand that there is a need for imperfect humans and perfect angels to contribute to the "universal issue", the answer to which has long been known to God. For, every human being does not have the ability to experientially observe the past to which he has not witnessed. And therefore he does not know who said and did what and why. So, he cannot give an answer for another, but only for himself. We cannot answer the question of whether God has the right to rule or not. We only give our "verbal" consent to the authority of one or the other. And that, too, is only of symbolic significance, because our consent to the opposite side will not cause God to cease to rule. Well, it is not democracy and the election of a new president for the next term. If all people agreed to be on the devil’s side, do you really think God would give up his position?

And the question/issue of "love"? It is something that has nothing to do with the "universal issue".

Interesting article -  https://biologos.org/articles/the-genre-of-genesis-1-is-cosmogony

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Another point he made was that “not many get deliberately involved with apostates, and that they ‘had no idea that apostates were behind it.’  “It’s tricky, because the apostates don’t advertise you are now on an apostate web page

On contrary, JW publications claims how all other religious web pages outside of WTJWorg and many other secular pages that not supports WTJWorg teachings are apostates and/or enemies of ..., but in same time producing and multiplying own apostasy on various issues. 

Example of apostasy is visible in this: 

On 7/18/2021 at 11:03 AM, BroRando said:

As the Last Days come to their End

In WTJWorg preaching, several Endings of Last Days have been coming during these 140 years. Such teachings are in fact apostasy for several reasons. One of striking piece of evidence is that their announcements were never fulfilled. 

3 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one!  Job 14:4

This verse is also useful to show how funny, how ridiculous it sounds when JW literature talks about “cleansing within an organization” in some specific time periods that were a turning point for the WTJWorg Administration.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

God or Jesus Christ has to either cleanse the JW Org or form a new 'Association of Brothers'.   

Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one!  Job 14:4

What experience does God have with an organized form of religion? For centuries, the Israeli congregation struggled in conditions that eventually ended with two destructions of the Temple, prophesied by God, and perhaps, to put it this way, caused by God. Further, The First Christian Assembly was diluted into various denominations of Christianity. Also, the current WTJWorg organization, which is claimed to be the only true successor to the First Christian Assembly, is grappling with doctrinal and instructional-organizational lies and errors.
I would say this way: God does not fix what is wrong, but always seeks a new solution to every new problem.

2 hours ago, BroRando said:

how do you think they will react to the final message of divine destruction is delivered?

Another prophecy/chronology/dateology from JW members? I guess you have some date in mind when that "final" message will be delivered to people.

10 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

$80.00 bottles of Scotch spirits?

Wine and spirits can be a cure for tired hearts and life worries. Contributes to a cheerful mood. But it also has side effects.  

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

It seems that those who turn against Jehovah have more mental health problems than anyone else!

I am asking for arguments for the claim and statistics that support your claim.

Article as this one on JWorg librray https://www.jw.org/hr/biblioteka/casopisi/g201412/psihicki-poremecaji/  not supporting any of your ideas presented in statement you offer. Your flat statement is an expression of the impotence of argumentation against ex JW. It is also evidence of an attack on the personality of forum participants. TTH has the same habits.

"Hundreds of millions of people around the world suffer from mental disorders, and this significantly affects the lives of their loved ones. Every fourth person at some point in their life has a mental disorder or a mental illness. Globally, depression is one of the leading causes of work disability. Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are among the most serious mental illnesses that greatly impair a person’s quality of life. (...) Despite the huge number of patients, mental disorders are still hidden and neglected, and society looks down on discriminated persons and discriminates against them ”(World Health Organization).

Mental illness can affect anyone, regardless of gender, age, nationality, race, culture, religion, level of education or financial status. Mental disorders are not the result of any human weakness or character defect.

Mental health professionals today successfully treat many mental disorders. Therefore, it is important that the sick person first goes for a psychiatric examination to a top doctor who has experience in treating mental illness. (not to JW elders and person who making conclusions like Arauna)

Although the Bible is not a medical manual, it contains wise counsel that can help us cope with painful emotions and unpleasant life situations. (Bible not support idea how God will punish you with or allow that person be affected by mental illness if decide to stop be a member of WTJWorg) 

Defending your religious beliefs that are based on the Organization is one thing. And to declare "insane " those who have abandoned the religious beliefs of WTJWorg is proof of a lack of arguments and a lack of skill in dealing with the opposite.  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

It seems that those who turn against Jehovah have more mental health problems than anyone else!

I am asking for arguments for the claim and statistics that support your claim.

AFTERNOON

1:35 Music-Video Presentation

1:45 Song No. 2

1:50 SYMPOSIUM: Use Creation to Build Your Faith

• Stars (Isaiah 40:26) 

“Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.Who has created these things?aIt is the One who brings out their army by number;He calls them all by name.bBecause of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power,cNot one of them is missing.

Kenneth Flodin gave new approach to understanding about stars. So, from the aspect of scientific knowledge, stars have their own lifespan, they are not eternal. The stars “explode” at some point. This is also assumed for our Sun, which will cease to exist in a few billion years.
Now, if God created the stars and gave them names, and none of them ever ceased to exist according to the words of the Bible, then today’s scientific knowledge is incorrect. 

But now Kenneth Flodin appears on the scene, who does not oppose today's science knowledge about/of the stars, already gives a new interpretation of a biblical passage that reconciles it with science. KF does not deny that stars “die”. He does not deny that the stars are “missing”. He comes to a compromise solution between the religious and the scientific.

It provides believers with a satisfactory explanation in which two different and opposing settings can coexist. But he goes further than that. He begins to use this "new explanation of truth" or so called  "beliefs  clarified", to strengthen the believers' hope in the resurrection of the dead.

So, KF summarizes that the star is “dead and missing,” but only in a literal sense. Actually that is an insignificant fact. What is more important is the claim that this star is still alive. And imagine where and how. In God's memory. So, all dead sparrows also live in God's memory. And all the lizards and all the worms, and so on. But to all the happiness and joy of Kenneth and most JWs, God will not deal with the resurrection of stars, sparrows, lizards and worms or our pets, but only with the resurrection of dead people.
We should not enter into God's choice of who will be resurrected and when, but we should certainly be careful when GB introduces a new interpretation of a biblical text/verse that either insufficiently or incorrectly showed "the truth" about the stars in time of Isaiah, or was poorly translated, or misrepresented God's relationship to the stars. Or Isaiah may not have been very inspired as he wrote this line. Or was it just a poetic expression that speaks of the sublimity of God, not that the stars will never disappear (literally or in memory).
This example of the one biblical verse, WTJWorg and our religious or other beliefs that stem from this kind of perception and understanding of the words in the Bible, should be a reason for us to be more careful about what we actually want to believe.