Srecko Sostar

Can you state what types (in what form) of humanitarian aid officially exist in your religion? And where can it be read in your literature, please?

10 hours ago, George88 said:

Glad to read you agree with me, that I have proved JWI wrong. I'll accept that. However, that's not what you mean with 607 1914, since 587 would be included, unless you have a different way of rationalizing, that humanity is unaware of.

You haven't proven anything against JWInsider.
We have only proven that the WTJWorg chronology is not a "sacred cow" or "sacred calf" aka idol.

10 hours ago, George88 said:

For sure, the Individuals from the Watchtower appreciate thinking as opposed to not thinking. However, you still undermine JWI's perception no matter how hard you try to justify your nonsense.

When scripture mentions certain applications that lead to chronology, are you saying God created an "idol" different from him?

I say that WTJWorg created an "idol". It's an "idol" that JWInsider doesn't want to worship, unlike you (and many others) who do. Are the letters blurry?

1 minute ago, George88 said:

Are you laughing @Srecko Sostar because of your nonsense, because I just proved JWI, and Pudgy wrong? Or are you just enjoying your day with a particular substance, lol!

Considering their perspective, I will have to explicitly specify the "electronic" library to ensure complete clarity, given that they are scrutinizing my choice of words.

I think it's better to laugh than share downvotes. lol

23 minutes ago, George88 said:

The day you start to think, respond to my post intellectually. I grow weary of irrational thoughts that include the twisting of words, like Pudgy, and JWI. Once again, the emphasis is on child play.

If we adopt this perspective, you inadvertently undermine JWI's argument regarding 587 BC, as there is no mention of it in scripture either. Consequently, his "upvote" is in direct conflict with his own post. An observation that shouldn't be overlooked by witnesses looking at this nonsense.

Unlike you, JWInsider arrives at the date by researching and reviewing the existing WTJWorg chronology.
If he is wrong, then it does not prove anything against him, except that he was wrong.

With WTJWorg, it's a completely different story. They claim that they know better than everyone else because they are allegedly "led by HS". They created a dogma and specific "idol" out of chronology. If you don't believe in the "idol" then you will be excommunicated. lol

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But also recognize (as most already do) that 90% of those who have made a tiny sliver of Persion history their cause would have difficulty naming who was president the year of their birth.

The first Society related to Russell and the Bible Students was Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society.
How many JWs know who the first president was?

Irrelevant to all JWs today. But it's good for them to know they can have a beard if they want.

Maybe they remember that date as important. lol

Only old JWs talk about 1914 as an important year for JWs. These young people today are not interested in it because they "don't care" about it, because it actually goes to Warwick's basement of history.

3 hours ago, George88 said:

It is fascinating to explore the functioning of the mind when confronted with a seemingly irrational notion. The idea of trampling on the heavenly Jerusalem, Srecko, may seem nonsensical indeed. However, it raises intriguing questions about how mere mortals could potentially bring about its destruction. What is particularly captivating is the assumption that you have become a deity, with the power to bring about such an event. Yet, it leaves me pondering what makes you believe that a higher power, like God, wouldn't eventually eliminate all false gods.

When making a claim, it is important to support it with scripture. This principle applies to any claim, not just religious ones. However, there seems to be an issue here where people often make false assumptions without providing any evidence. The burden of proof does not lie with the other person; it is your responsibility to prove your claim. If you disagree with the dates of 1914 and 607, then make a compelling case supported by scripture and historical events to challenge those dates. Otherwise, all you are doing is demonstrating dishonesty and deceit.

Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 3:12, Revelation 3:12. 

There is no biblical statement that anything happened in 607 BCE or 1914 CE. Go to search tool and you will not find any of this dates (numbers) in the Bible. That is my evidence.

Your evidence comes from the calculation of the biblical text. So you have no proof, just an interpretation.

lol

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The details show that there has continued to be trampling and subjugation by other nations over Israel and Jerusalem. History tells us that not just a few, but MILLIONS fell by the sword, and Jerusalem continues to be trampled on by the nations. Israel is little more than a client of the US and sometimes Britain. A supposedly "safe," non-democratic national military base, weapons testers and purchasers of US manufacturers, and an appeasement to religiously fanatic Zionists and Christian fundamentalists.

So tell me again how this was fulfilled in 1914:

(Luke 21:24) . . .And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

It is quite possible that George, like a good number of JWs, is influenced by the idea that the "New Jerusalem" (or one of several types of "Jerusalem" in WTJWorg theology) is presented in a "new form and new dwelling place".

So "that Jerusalem that is no longer trampled on" is located in HQ Brooklyn, now Warwick or wherever in the state of New York.

lol

It becomes recognizable to me as follows. There are scholars, archaeologists, historians and others involved in looking at historical events and dating them. These are people who independently or within the framework of recognized institutions research the matter and draw conclusions. All such individuals should have, and probably have, diplomas from higher educational institutions, so you can have confidence in their work and expertise.
 
On the other hand, we have "esteemed" researchers whose names we do not know, nor their diplomas, because they work in anonymity as individuals or as unitary teams of a religious community. It is necessary to strongly emphasize the fact that this same religious community, as a non-profit body, strongly appeals before various other "secular bodies", such as courts and other institutions dealing with religious and human freedoms (and the like), appeals for its complete independence when it comes to religious doctrines and interpretations. They refer to their constitutionally guaranteed right that no one, not even the courts, have the right to engage in assessments or judgments as to whether certain theological interpretations are legal or not, right or wrong.

In light of such a context and the claim of "independence in interpreting the biblical text" JWs (read, religious leaders) can, if they want to, say and teach what they like and see fit for their own theological consistency and doctrinal purpose while leading their believers with specifically chosen direction of one's own religious thought.
In other words, this means that any teaching of a religious community, even if it is contrary to official science and and as such recognized by the academic community, cannot be considered  as"wrong", because this right and freedom to "interpretation/s" is guaranteed by constitutional freedoms and charters.

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What about all that fresh air and clean water you consume, resources that could be put to fine use?

Really, Srecko, you don’t think you’re grasping at straws here?

I would use @George88 Georg's words, we humans are only part/causers of the problem. Are we the solution?

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Elsewhere, people are anything but optimistic about the future and a fair number are not even sure there will be one.

The prospects are bad. But that doesn't stop people from being fighters for their lives, no matter how it turns out in the end.
Let's say, the horror with plastic has long exceeded the possibilities to solve it. But have people stopped using plastic? How many materials do JWs and their organization use, not just plastic, which is already being shown to be harmful? Don't JWs and "God's Organization" use vehicles that pollute the environment? So, you yourself are active participants in generating the downfall in one way or another. Doctrinal mantras will not free you from the consequences that affect every inhabitant of the Earth. WTJWorg periodically postpones Armageddon and thus the "perfect total solution".

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Then there is an Amber Scorah who wrote a book upon going ‘apostate’ which was hailed by the media. The reviews lauded her ‘courage’ for facing the death of her newborn just following her ‘escape’ from a ‘high-control’ religion. ‘The dodo!’ I found myself thinking. Here she leaves a place where the death of a newborn would have unleashed scores of genuine comforters with a resurrection hope that never fails among Witnesses to soften the blow, to enter a community where there is no such comfort, but only the harsh loss itself, and she still counts it a victory!

The human mind seeks solace in various, unusual and even strange places. Hope and faith are subjective scenes supported by ideas from various sources. Even the Communists who fought against the Nazis had faith and hope without religion. They were atheists, weren't they? They are still there today. Both atheists and communists have not died out.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What about the sister in the picture?’ he returned to the text material, commented on the accompanying photo. Here she is being yelled at. Right outside the Kingdom Hall. That’s not pleasant, is it? It probably was traumatic. What will she do? Who will she tell? (the photo inset shows her in prayer) Will she tell everyone in the congregation? [laughter, because the friends are contrasting that with the inset] Will she go to another congregation? Will she leave the truth? He then returned to his own experience. ‘Do you want to leave the congregation?’ The CO had asked him, and pointed to one or two where they needed help. The CO presented it that neither option, stay or go, was wrong, but, ‘If you stay, you will grow.’ He did stay and did grow. He related how, by staying, he got to see how Jehovah handled the issue in time.

We are obliged to solve our problems and challenges ourselves. The only question is whether they taught us this when we were little, that is, whether they gave us a good foundation to continue growing and maturing while facing difficulties. With or without God, read; organized religion. 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So far, the earthly organization has proved adept at tweaking and amending policies to stay a step ahead of ones who use law in order to shut them down, Russia notwithstanding.  Always, such tweaks and amendments are lambasted as hypocrisy by opponents. Sometimes the brothers are somewhat clunky in response, but they do respond with what generally makes things better, leading some to say, ‘Jehovah uses the world to discipline his people!’ something I don’t say, but if it results in better policies and better navigation amidst a sea of circling sharks, why quibble?

Some JWs brothers and their lawyers are not honest when they present their testimony in court. Also, it is duplicitous to use the politically established scope of today's civilization on "freedom of religion", to introduce lawlessness and dishonesty through religious ideology and interpretations.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If money is involved in any way, as it always will be with any large organization, then it is, ‘It’s all about money with them!’ Even if one takes this view, so what? ‘Is there any among you whose bull will fall into a pit who will not drop everything until it is pulled out?’ Jesus says. Preservation of money is an unremarkable concern in secular matters of life. Money has the power to do things, so you want to keep it if you can. It’s only the ‘love of money’ that messes you up, not money itself.

"So what?" ........., "It’s only the ‘love of money’ that messes you up, not money itself."

Do you have a detector that measures someone's "love" of money? Because, I get the impression that you are sure that those who manage money and make decisions about money in the "Corporation" are all "money haters".

lol

JWTV video with Stephen Lett, May 2015

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/StudioTalks/pub-jwban_201505_1_VIDEO

5 hours ago, scholar JW said:

JW Insider

No problem as the Exile as to its nature and chronology are clearly defined as a fixed period of 70 years and consisted of two other elements namely a period of servitude to Babylon and a period of desolation of the Land of Judah which are characteristic of a 'exile' which of course would include a deportation of the remaining inhabitants. Such three elements are the Exile and only went into effect at the time of the Fall of Jerusalem. Ezekiel along Daniel and others had already been deported some ten years earlier into Exile in Babylon thus it became their or 'our exile.

scholar JW

Don't mind me not participating in the discussion about dates and events. There is a lot of math, comparing and memorizing, and reading a lot of books. I don't have that capacity, and I don't have enough persistence.

Should we deal with the figure of "70 years" as an important factor? Not really, as far as I can see. Because there were several "exiles" for many nations and individuals, not just some. And they all started and ended at different times.

Another thing that is troubling in general when we want to rely on statements in the Bible is this. God himself declared that his covenant with the Jews and his Law and some other things will last forever (not 70 or 700,000 years, but forever).
What is visible today of that "eternity"? Something still persists/continues, but how and in what way? Some claim that "that eternity" no longer lasts.

I conclude that relying on the "70 years" benchmark is unreliable.

4 hours ago, scholar JW said:

Screcko Sostar

The 'celebrated' WT scholars wish to remain anonymous and that is also the stated policy of the NWT Committee by way of comparison. Their origin remains unknown but they no doubt have been chosen by means of the Holy Spirit and were originally of the Anointed. Their qualifications also is unknown at this time suffice to say they both as a class and as individuals champion the Bible as God's Inspired Word. I hope this helps!!

scholar JW

If I could I would put 2 emoticons. Laughter and sadness. I can see through your comments how much information you have and "expertise" in presenting it.
I could have guessed your answer. I knew the WTJWorg "researchers" wanted to remain anonymous for the reason stated. Maybe one is trying to be more modest than the reality is. Furthermore, such an explanation could have passed some 20 years ago. Today, to say such a thing is so ridiculous and unconvincing, when we see many JWs key figures providing "spiritual guidance" and "interpretations" with head and beard, with first and last name and without any shyness, on JWTV and other digital platforms.
As a class and as individuals, they proved that they are without "leadership from above". They are at the same time subordinated to the main condition that the "company/corporation" should not fail but survive at all costs. Entangled in a series of their own nonsensical interpretations and clarifications, they prove themselves constantly incapable of providing the "truth". Because they changed "the truth" countless times.

Unfortunately, or fortunately for me, I cannot "submit" myself to your "generated" (recognizable) answer, because it looks like the use of an AI platform, which has been repeatedly exposed here, which gives wrong and misleading information.
I appreciate the possibility that you deeply believe in it, but that will not make the premise real and proven.

I remain to enjoy this academic discussion. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I might be wrong, but I think sunlight is still the best disinfectant. People who are curious enough to go venture online "on their own" are going to hear all these things sooner or later anyway, so why not prepare them. Even when someone mentions Ray Franz' books, we can say:

"Imagine, Ray Franz already knew firsthand about all of that stuff he reports and yet he still did his best to stay within the brotherhood, the organization. Even after he resigned from the Governing Body, and was no longer allowed to be an elder, he STILL tried his best to remain a member in good standing with  his congregation in Alabama."  

Going around saying these things never happened, or that they are all lies doesn't help. In fact, it makes things worse for those who end up believing that and trying to defend the WTS against what turns out to be true. We end up looking uninformed, or haughty, naive, or worse yet, like liars ourselves.

Some in the ex-JW community use the term "JW-borg, all resistance is futile".
The method and purpose of dealing with the "disobedient" in WTJWorg is that anyone who disagrees and opposes and resists should be completely rejected, and denied communication with the "healthy fabric" of the congregation.

You gave an example with Ray Franz. The latest case is with A. Morris. Both were members of GB. Over time, the same fact is shown again and again; The "apostates" spoke the truth and saw things they should have kept quiet about, but they couldn't and didn't want to keep quiet.

These people are "whistleblowers" of some kind. Ruling structures that are bothered by the uncontrolled spreading of facts about "God's Organization" can only partially succeed in keeping such information. The so-called "non-transparency", at all levels and platforms of communication that are used today in "God's organization", has been practiced for a long time. This cannot have good results in the long run, only bad consequences. WTJWorg is "condemned, predestined" to this type of functioning, because this is how it is done in every "controlled group" and "hierarchical institution".

As much as the "broad and free freedom of communication" through today's predominantly digital means has its downsides, there are just as many positive aspects that will help individuals make "informed decisions" regarding their religious affiliation and dependence on certain ideologies of any provenance.

I am glad that a large number of JW people are taking advantage of these opportunities, and I hope that they will not go to other extremes while using their "newfound freedom".

4 hours ago, scholar JW said:

WT scholars in our publications

On all these pages where history and dates are discussed, many people are very clearly mentioned with their first and last names and with the names of books, publications, and sources from which they are quoted.
Please, who are the people, by name and surname, who are WT scholars? Let them stand behind their claims with their full name and surname.

4 hours ago, scholar JW said:

WT scholars in our publications

Please, who are WT scholars?

Then, since when have they been operating within WTJWorg?

Who chose them and appointed them to do this kind of work?

On the basis of which credentials were they chosen?

On the other hand, what is even more important (primarily for me) for this and any other assessment of their action comes from the consequences produced by WT scholars. Namely, the entire promenade of various WT scholars has been making theological and doctrinal chaos and commotion for a whole century.

They are dangerous for the spiritual and mental health of believers. So how can they even be trusted?

11 hours ago, George88 said:

You seem to be mixing up behavior and action. Let me give you a clear example. As an advocate, are you here to provide warnings or spread hate? Moreover, what is the significance of ex-witnesses and disgruntled witnesses who share similar thoughts?

My behavior in communication on the forum is subject to subjective (yours or someone else's) judgment because they observe my actions through their individual prism of judgment, which they acquired mainly under the influence of their religious affiliation.

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

11 hours ago, George88 said:

While I understand that you are highlighting the significance of a specific example, it is essential to acknowledge that it cannot singularly outweigh the numerous evil acts committed by wicked individuals. Although this circumstance may seem noteworthy, it is crucial to recognize that it does not apply universally.

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you.

According to statistics maintained by WTJWorg there are very few countries where JWs are banned compared to the large number of countries where JWs operate freely. According to this factual situation, we can look at the concept and idea that "the whole world hates JWs" differently and more realistically.

11 hours ago, George88 said:

While I understand that you are highlighting the significance of a specific example, it is essential to acknowledge that it cannot singularly outweigh the numerous evil acts committed by wicked individuals. Although this circumstance may seem noteworthy, it is crucial to recognize that it does not apply universally.

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you.

1 hour ago, George88 said:

ongoing persecution faced by JWs from millions and governments,

In this "secular" report JWs volunteers say the opposite. That the people around them are nice, that they approach them and that they chat nicely with them, they say Hi to them, (this remind me on GB command how "simple Hello" is forbidden if you are ex-JW), express their appreciation for what JWs do.

Hey, nobody hates you. Here are your brothers and sisters confirming it George! Wake up!

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Since I have never said anything about that particular gap between the Babylonian and the Persian empire, who is making the distortion? If it's not me, who were you talking about when you said I was sharing distorted views? Are you saying you have NO examples of views I have distorted, but that you made the claim anyway? 

This is Georg's frequent practice.

9 hours ago, George88 said:

Hoćete li da Srećko pokrene novu raspravu o nedavnim događajima u Houstonu u Texasu? Upravo sam primio e-poruku s informacijama o tome.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-shooting-reported-at-joel-osteens-lakewood-megachurch-in-houston/ar-BB1i7DGz

 

Reports, like this unfortunate event, which takes place in the premises of other churches, show that the claim of JWs that the world hates only them has no basis. This event shows that there are people who hate the members of "Babylon the Great" too.

25 minutes ago, George88 said:

You seem to thrive on confrontation and insults, believing that you and everyone here, including apostates like Srecko have the exclusive privilege to do so because of your safety net. I'll leave you to argue with your invisible man in your mirror, lol!

Was Jesus an "apostate" or a "whistleblower"?

apostasy- https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/apostasy

The act of giving up your religious or political beliefs and leaving a religion or a political party.

apostate - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/apostate

An apostate is someone who has abandoned their religious faith, political loyalties, or principles.

JWs agree with the general view that Jesus founded Christianity, thus a religion distinct from the Jewish religion. This would mean that Jesus belongs to the category of apostates and more. Not only did he abandon the religion of his fathers, but he founded another, the opposite of the one to which he belonged.

whistleblower - https://www.whistleblowers.org/what-is-a-whistleblower/

On the simplest level, a whistleblower is someone who reports waste, fraud, abuse, corruption, or dangers to public health and safety to someone who is in the position to rectify the wrongdoing. A whistleblower typically works inside of the organization where the wrongdoing is taking place; however, being an agency or company “insider” is not essential to serving as a whistleblower. What matters is that the individual discloses information about wrongdoing that otherwise would not be known.  

Because of his constant criticism of the religious leaders and the revelation of their hypocrisy and the injustices they inflicted on the people, Jesus would also be included under this category because of his actions.

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Those leaders presume to place themselves above God's law, much like many modern religions neglect to uphold God's laws. Srecko, the key is to identify religions that prioritize the preservation of God's laws and commands without distorting their narrative. Can you provide an example?

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Matt 23: ² “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. ³ So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

1 hour ago, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

whole nation was rejected by God and replaced with Christianity

Yes, that's learning at WTJWorg. But is it true?
Jesus nowhere stated that he was introducing/establishing a new religion. Jesus never called his activities and the gathering of individuals who followed him by any name, a title that would separate them from Judaism. He did not call himself and the apostles with title - "Christians". This was done by some other people who the Bible does not claim were Christians, Jesus' followers, nor were they inspired when they invented the name for Jesus' disciples.

Also we have this claim in Romans 11:

1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,[a] a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?