Srecko Sostar

36 minutes ago, Anna said:

They can tell us how to pronounce it in Hebrew, but we are speaking English. Or do you think God only understands Hebrew?

 

I see what you mean. What I mean, Jews should know how to pronounce old Jews names, without vowels, written in the Bible. That would be start, at least for hear how name JHVH have to sound, on Jew language of course :)) Perhaps from that point, interested people, or linguists can be able to show direction how not to pronounce this the holiest Name IF wrong pronunciation can bring shame or defilement of that Name.  

16 minutes ago, Anna said:

I think those who are serious about not pronouncing God's name in English should also stick to pronouncing Jesus's name as Yeshua.

We today know how to pronounce Jesus name ..... because what? Jews today speaking Jesus name as Yeshua? If they know what missing letters-vowels to put in Jesus name, so they can tell us how to pronounce JHVH? Or? 

@Anna do you remember my mistake with - worth noting or worth nothing. One single letter making meaning completely opposite. Is that can be the case also with how to pronounce JHVH? Some people say it can be.

If that is possible than it is very good to follow what we know for sure, to address God with, My Dear Friend, My Dear Best Friend., because JW people are motivated to be friends with God according to WTJWorg.

But, what Jesus practiced was to say, Father and/or God ... as in his Last and Final Words: Eli, Eli, lama sabahtami . Very significant. Not Father ... Not Jehovah,..... but... My God. His Final Testimony was not speaking aloud name Jehovah or however Jew spelled JHVH. With his last breath He used common title - God.

5 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

So, JWI is almost saying here that Zalkin has over 100 CSA cases against Elders and Minsterial Servants. 

With this information we can conclude how it is not only "family violence" problem as some here want to present CSA in WTJWorg. This numbers proves "institutional violence" too. 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

I've once again went carefully through

Thanks!

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would not be so sure that genuine victims will get a better deal with this program. It may be that handling complaints on a case-by-case basis, as was being done, will be more to their advantage.

Yes, private handling with private lawyers can bring other results. I see that you speaking about "genuine victims". So "fake victims" will enter ARC program to get some money that will not be received in private lawsuit? And do you think how Redress Commission collects cases without checking?

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

My lawyer got me

Do you want us to believe that JW lawyers who representing WTJWorg are more honest than those lawyers who representing opposite side? :))

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I am of the generation where you didn’t call them at all. You had insurance, the other party had insurance, you relied upon them for fair compensation, and were seldom dissatisfied with the result.

Sounds fair to me. Problem is if you have a very old car, so insurance declares total damage for what is not total damage at all. The reason is that the price of a vehicle of that year on the market is lower than the price of a turn signal and a headlight, so to speak. ;))

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

(John 8:16-19) . . .. ¹⁷ Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ ¹⁸ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” ¹⁹ Then they said to him: . . .

This is super. Jesus said; "In your own Law ..." Very specific choice of words - YOUR OWN. He didn't say My Father Law, or My Teaching, but YOUR OWN LAW.  Jesus beat them with their own weapons aka Their Own Law. Nothing about what you want to sell us here.

Stick to Context Brother Cesar! :)))  

Appendix

Fact one) Jesus know how in some situation can be false and true witness/es 

Fact two) Jesus is witness about himself. Jesus is First Witness

Fact three) Father is invisible and is in The  Heaven. Father is Second Witness

Fact four) How would/will old Jew Judicial Committee summon Father for a hearing?

Fact five) Jesus put them in impossible position referring, invoking them to their own law.

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

If the bias Australian Royal Commission had a problem with the two-witness rule?

Slow down please. EVERY Commission can be biased. Even JW elders Judicial Committee (Commission). They are all only human, as people would say (justifies) when something goes wrong.  :))

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

(Deuteronomy 17:5-7) ⁵ you must bring the man or the woman who has done this evil thing out to the city gates, and the man or the woman must be stoned to death. ⁶ On the testimony of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die should be put to death. He must not be put to death on the testimony of one witness. ⁷ The hand of the witnesses should be the first to come against him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward. You must remove what is bad from your midst.

Who should be put to death by whom in ARC ???? 

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

 (Matthew 18:15-17) ¹⁵ “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶ But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. ¹⁷ If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector

Read again verse 16. This "two or more" who should be "taken along" are not witnesses of wrongdoing but witnesses of (victim) who going to his/her bro/sis for conversation about alleged sin he/she made to her/him. Again, they are witnesses of "second approach" because "first approach" failed. JW elders, and you, have error interpretations and application.

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

 (1 Timothy 5:19, 20) ¹⁹ Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. ²⁰ Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest.

What if accused is "younger man" ??? Or individual (male, female, child) without "title"???

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

(John 8:16-19) . . .. ¹⁷ Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ ¹⁸ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” ¹⁹ Then they said to him: . . .

This is super. Jesus said; "In your own Law ..." Very specific choice of words - YOUR OWN. He didn't say My Father Law, or My Teaching, but YOUR OWN LAW.  Jesus beat them with their own weapons aka Their Own Law. Nothing about what you want to sell us here.

Stick to Context Brother Cesar! :)))  

1 hour ago, Witness said:

It was still a CHOICE, just as it was a CHOICE not to cooperate with the redress scheme to begin with.  Obviously, money is more important than reaching out to help the victims.

The organisation says it will sign up because of new rules introduced by the federal government, which mean it would lose its charity status - and subsequent tax exemptions - for continuing to hold out.

"Now that the law requires charities to join the scheme, Jehovah's Witnesses will comply," it said in a statement to AAP on Wednesday.

56 minutes ago, Anna said:

I rest my case.

No problem.

56 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 I don’t say that Witnesses typically do this, ....

That is true.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is followed by a completely strange wording that invites the recipient of the letter to go to JWORG

Do you think so? I would submit that the entire letter is strange,

It can be. From first sentence to the last. But, keeping in mind that these are JW members, then it stops being weird because the ideas came from someone within the System. It can only be strange that people on the outside don’t understand the JW System :)).

As I said, it is good for members of society (of different ideologies) to connect, at least through children. Because an individual often needs the help of the wider community to be able to live. Sometimes the whole community finds itself in a situation of being affected by a natural disaster and if they do not act, how much so, mutually it will be harder for them to overcome the crisis. Physical or mental. So, it is not bad for children to be involved in humanitarian matters, but with measure and with what children are and should be ... The future of a better humanity. And not under the control of the System that makes them future adults who will blindly follow GB.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Suppose you are a “traditionalist” who thinks the role of children is to have fun and play games.

And you don't think children should have fun and play games ?  You don't think children should be allowed to live a 'childhood' ?  Of course not, because your Leaders tell you that children must be kept away from the real world.  You don't want children to build up their own spiritual immune system....  

Not to mentioned Sunday Ice Cream money (after KH meeting). It is good to learn children about charity and sharing with others. But, is it really proper to do that with Institutional Cartoons of Company who have real-estate riches, stocks, etc?

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Srecko may think

Why you call my name in vain? :)))

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If he would be equally outraged at a child expressing support for his school, love for his country, support for some local cause, rallying for some local politician, selling Scout cookies, knocking on his door offering to shovel snow, & such things, then he would be consistent. However, I think most other people would tell him to get a life.

Children want to be like adults. Adults want their children to be like themselves or something bigger and better. Children imitate adults and accept suggestions. I think these mentioned children of JW parents are doing what their parents suggested to them.
Sometimes it can be nice, cute, funny, fun, delighting adults and the like. This child's letter, which is presented in the topic, has at least two elements. It begins with a good introduction, then turns in a direction that is religiously marked because the child mentions the Bible in a way that is characteristic of religiously oriented people, someone who is engaged in Bible study. In other words, the sentence sounds like it was written by an adult, not a child.
This is followed by a completely strange wording that invites the recipient of the letter to go to JWORG. This is where the child's mind, children's openness and naivety completely cease, and the influence of propaganda begins.
So, I don’t mind children writing letters to their neighbors at a time when their surroundings are affected by some trouble, if their parents want it. It is a kind of social engagement, though religiously colored. Everyone is looking for their own meaning and purpose of life, their own way out of the problem.

Given that this is related to WTJWorg, then this kind of action through letters can only be seen as a way of acting of a religious organization and its members who stopped going from house to house and found a substitute way of preaching.

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Actually, those that are true Christians within the Watchtower, know it, only to well, and they apply it to their daily, lives. So, to those witnesses, the WT is making the context understood properly. While other Christian faiths, continue in their old ways. Enjoy, you're night Srecko! 

Thank you. Every man has his nights and days.  

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Context: Think of these things

(Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. . .
 

How do people apply scripture in their daily lives, in public or private. I know you hate to hear the truth Srecko just like everyone here. But try learning something while you continue to be here.

Verse is great, but WTJWorg context makes it less great.

48 minutes ago, Anna said:

Let’s face it, some people are more eager to look to others for guidance than others. This has been discussed on this forum before. If an individual feels that he is inferior spiritually to someone else and wants someone else’s “spiritual opinion and guidance” then that is up to them. On the other hand, if someone is confident in their own spirituality then they might feel they should not consult with anyone else. It works both ways. You cannot lump everyone in the congregation into the same category. I have known sisters who would practically not breathe unless they asked an elder if it was OK. And I have also known sisters who were able to figure out ambiguous situations by themselves using the Bible and Bible based publications, their own conscience, and common sense. So according to your theory about a hierarchy, this would not happen. Everyone would feel they had to go and seek advice. But as it is, some people are just too lazy to do research and find answers themselves. I think this has a lot to do with personality as well....

Good explanation, for sure. But please, don't forget that we are dealing with a religious system in which rank and file need to "know" who teachers and representatives are. That is, to express ourselves in WTJWorg jargon, who is the "channel" through which "all truth and knowledge" comes. ". In this "channel" members should have confidence, trust (statements from GB+Helpers members on JWTV and in publications). Also this channel is “the only one authorized by God and Jesus”, as JW's believe, to give lessons, interpretations and direction.

In this and such context we have to deal with your fine observation and explanation.  

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In the United States, the most frequent litigant in the Supreme Court, apart from the government itself, has been Jehovah's Witnesses, mostly in the 30s, 40,s and 50s. Any student of law learns of their major contributions in clarifying freedom of worship, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly. Justice Harlan Fiske Stone once said, “I think the Jehovah’s Witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legal problems of civil liberties.” They have "solved the legal problems of civil liberties" upwards of 50 times in that one country alone.

I do not know what, if anything, they will do with regard to this Australian policy. The only thing I know for sure is that, had you been in America decades ago, you would have cried over each and every one of their cases then, as you do here.

There is no "principle" at stake here. They attempted to escape a "fee" they felt unjust and were thwarted. At which point they drop back and say governments have the power and authority to impose or not impose fees. It's what they do, and adjusting to it is no more than obeying the superior authorities. 

Appealing the verdict of a court is not the same as disregarding the superior authorities. It is a right afforded any citizen or collection of citizens. Will this be appealed? No idea. 

To seek "freedom" from courts for oneself and one's own interests also means to recognize such the same freedom for those with whom one ideologically disagrees. We know what the content of JW’s beliefs is about other ideologies. Different and opposite ideologies will have no "freedom" in the "New World", but will be "deleted".

There are principles in everything. You made erroneous conclusion.

Yes, the Organization can seek to evade obligations with the help of semantics. Also the Organization can semantically justify what it previously refused to do.

It’s a successful way that you use too.  

59 minutes ago, xero said:

That's garbage as are the motives of those who suggest the same.

.. strong words.

Opposers argue is garbage? People's motive are garbage? Suggests that people with such emotions are garbage? JWTV replica?

9 minutes ago, Anna said:

As you know, .............

I agree with the explanation you gave, supported by life situations and the possible reasons why this is happening. So, I see this: People, members, seek guidance and help from those they think are “closer to God,” that they are “more spiritual,” that they “know more,” etc.

We need to ask ourselves how this situation comes about. Is it because of the existence of a "hierarchy", the doctrine that there are "classes" within the assembly. FDS class and non-FDS class. The clergy class and the lay class.
As much as WTJWorg declaratively denies the existence of such differences, it still exists in JW assemblies. Clergy "exist" to give support and answer to members of laity. That is how is in all religion, so why we would expect to be different in JW church?

On the other hand, those who give "answers" to layman's questions have created a climate in which it is "normal" for laymen to ask, and "normal" the clergy know the answers to everything. And clergy wants to know the answers to everything even when they don't really have an answer, even if they don't need to know the answer, nor if do they need to give an answer for what doesn't concern them.

Also, Bible don't speak about things that Watchtower's "our readers ask", study editions or BOE articles answering. Private opinions made by "spiritual men" have to stay private opinions ....not teachings and doctrines and instructions.

9 hours ago, Anna said:

It is a private arrangement and agreement

Showing sexuality is a private matter between husband and wife, right? Then why are there GB regulations about it?

Things are not quite as they seem at first glance. WTJWorg has a great influence in family and private matters. And it does so as a Company, Organization, Institution.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The Aussie authorities then say they MUST come aboard, on pain of losing the tax status that is afforded every other charity. At that point, it becomes an operational cost. They still don’t think it is justified, but it becomes a cost of operating in Australia.

First Christians suffered and died for principles and died with thoughts how it is not justified what Caesar doing.

WTJWorg are not willing to "suffer and die" for same reasons, because "cost of operating" depend on money not on God blessings.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There are times in life when it is all about money. One of those times is when someone is trying to take it from you and you alone. 

WTJWorg still have their lawyers. Perhaps they will give suggestion to GB; "We can sue Australia for this" :)))

49 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Jehovah’s Witnesses are fully compliant with each of these recommendations. Every elder and ministerial servant has a Working With Children clearance in those states where this is legislated

JW congregation does not have "Sunday School" and children are responsible(responsibility) of parents. But it seems how parents are not only one who "teaching own children", but MS and Elders are involved in this practice too, not only in Australia and not only in those states where this is obligated/legislated.

Ok, than we see not only domestic/family program of teaching religious things to children, but Institutional Program/Settings with MS and Elders involved.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Worth noting:

Apologize for reading this incorrectly. It is very similar to "worth nothing".