Srecko Sostar

41 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Moses was a thinker and was also an educated man

Role model for JW's. To be Thinker and Educated.

42 minutes ago, Arauna said:

having access to the highest education of the time, as well as a man who communicated with jehovah. 

Beautiful! Egyptian wisdom and God's spirit together.

52 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Spirit and power are related.

Not so related. Spirit is in person (or in animal).

Power is in the battery of your car. :))

I remember the first big wave of closures of many Bethel around the world a few years ago. That was just before my complete departure from JWorg in 2015.
Today I stumbled upon another in a series of sales of so-called “god-dedicated” JW buildings.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/9124458/Witnesses-sell-Elim-buys

Elim Christian Centre is a contemporary, relevant and multicultural church established over 30 years ago.

We exist to be a centre of hope, to reach, serve and influence our local communities and beyond.

At Elim people come to know God, find freedom, discover their unique purpose and be equipped to make a difference in our world.

1 hour ago, AlanF said:

Indeed, it is "out of mind".

Just as a point of language, one might best say something like, "Anyone who would translate the words in Isaiah as "dynamic energy" is out of his mind."

It was Fred Franz who did that with the New World Translation. Even though he was brilliant on some level, he was certainly out of his mind -- an idiot savant.

Unfortunately, Franz managed to become the "head theologian" for the Watchtower Society for perhaps 60 years. One can see the horrendus results that this brilliant idiot produced, results that most ex-JWs are very familiar with.

Igniting the idea that some individual or GB was appointed by Jesus from heaven in 1919 is collective work of religious leaders and members. We have a small group of people who have begun to believe about their own “messianism” and special status, both before God and before people. They are followed by followers who seeking leadership. From that pool of people will later come heirs who will think and say that they are now those “chosen ones”. And the circle is closed. There is no way out, except for the complete rejection of such an organized system and escape to a kind of individualism. Some, very few of them, ex-JW sometimes return to the mother organization, and others find other paths to God or to some other Reason and Purpose. And some just exist.

The damage has been done, and mostly cannot be repaired. The people who came out have scars. Here, me for example. I argue/disputing with those who advocate WTJWorg on this Forum, instead of finding a "smarter job". :))))) PTSD for sure :)))

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I see that no JW will answer this topic 

Yes, it is the same about my 1941 topic. Perhaps, quotations from WT publications are too much to be able to digest :))

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

The bible is not a science manual.

I know this phrase too. It is known in JW circle and publications. 

:))) than to translate words in Isaiah with "dynamic energy" is out of mind.

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It doesn't seem consistent to use "dynamic energy" in Isaiah 40:26 and then use just power, strength, and vigor in the other places.

I wonder what class of people using expression "dynamic energy" in average conversation? Bible, generally, is considered to be book for all people, especially for people who are "poor in spirit". In that respect we would expect to read simple and clear "divine" words that all sort of people could understand and to be motivated to appreciate spiritual and moral values and truth.

After that, other sort of publication, as sort of neutral appendix, can teach readers to expand their vocabulary and other sort of knowledge.

As you noticed, what was reason, motive to use this specific, unusual word for Bible expressions, text/wording, in this verse in Isaiah? To sound more scientifically? To send special insight about Universe phenomena and higher mathematics, physics that ruling in galaxies? And to explain what is He like, who is God in "energy" sense? 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

projected energy

projected - adjective

estimated or forecast on the basis of current trends or data

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

.......jehovah's power / spirit is always active and directed - regarding our physical realm never in a dormant state. In the bible the words for power and spirit are closely associated.

Good. In general logic, God holding everything in his hand ... in order to exist in various forms and purpose. So, GB mantra how they are "guided by spirit" is in reality nothing more than fact that they receive "projected energy" .... as any other creature (animate and inanimate nature) on Earth and in Universe. :))

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Please Mr Alan F  explain to me why you did not find it appropriate to rather ask about the translation of the word "nothing" in the following scripture written by Moses under inspiration 3,500 years ago? 

job 26:7 " He stretches the northern sky over empty space, suspending the earth upon "NOTHING".

Scientifically - we no there is.  With the naked eye, it really hangs on nothing. 

 

With "naked eye" we see how WTJWorg GB using own "projected energy" and suspending doctrine on doctrine upon members that generally know nothing what is going on.

Moses was an Egyptian for a third of his life and it can be he knew more than slaves and average Egyptian. If he adopted, as Jew and as Egyptian, vocabulary and terminology of people in his period of time, can somebody provide insight what was "scientific knowledge" and terminology about Universe and Energy in Egypt in time when Moses lived?

That will help us is it using WT NWT Bible word on this subject possibility or probability. 

Also, what word "dynamic" means??

Definition of dynamic

Entry 1 : marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change

Entry 2 : a force or factor that controls or influences a process of growth, change, interaction, or activity : a dynamic force or factor

Synonyms: Adjective

energetic, flush, gingery, lusty, peppy, red-blooded, robust, vigorous, vital

- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dynamic

--------------------------------------

1. characterized by constant change, activity, or progress

2. Relating to forces producing motion.

3. expressing an action, activity, event, or process.

4. positive in attitude and full of energy and new ideas.

5. A force that stimulates change or progress within a system or process.

- https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/dynamic

It seems how we speak here about "energetic energy", "energetic force", "constant change".... 

Croatian edition, of NW 2020 revised, say:

Because of its great power * and amazing power +
none are missing.

*Or: "Because of the abundance of energy that drives everything."

(Because of his great strength * and his mighty power, none is lacking. - 1984 edition)

It is interesting how Croatian translation team did not put same phrase as English team.

The difference is also present in the translation of other publications. Since I am no longer a reader of WT publications today, my observation relates to previous publications.

I watched that this morning. Very good presentation about "hours" and statistic on preaching service, categorization.

In my "last days of last days" period of my living JWorg i internationally put 30 minutes on report paper. Elder called me and say that i have to write new report because this i gave is not acceptable. Something like, give report next month on which i can put 30 minutes from this report. I reminded him how it is acceptable to put 15 minutes on report if you don't have more hours/time. Than he said that i have not permission from Elders for doing so. Or course, that was my last report :))

All people have their regrets.

All this things she numbered, if she want, can start working now. If she really want.

"Houston, we have a problem". .... I don't see what is a problem. :))

12 hours ago, Anna said:

If the dilemma is whether there is a right/precise answer, then "God allowing" things does not solve it. If you believe there IS a right and precise answer then there is no dilemma, you just have to keep looking until you find it.

I agree, in fact. 

If one believes in something, then we may wonder; Why should I convince him that he is wrong ?!

Why JW preach the Bible to those people who believe in the Bible, but in a different way?

Why ex-JW sends messages to JW that they are wrong when are submissive to GB in everything, when both, they and GB believe they are right in what they are doing ?!

And answer on all these "why" is: God allows all that to happen... because he does not have  dilemma. 

:))

17 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote @Anna Of course I do not think mistakes are from God or Jesus. But they obviously allowed them.

God and Christ allow all false religions to do as they please right now, and have done so in the past.  So why do you think the 'mistakes' of the Watchtower / JWs is any different ?  

Problem that all this (Christian) religious leaders have is their idea how God and Jesus choose just/only Them and no one else. GB claims how God had chosen them in 1919 is huge farce. 

In reality, fact can be verbalized this way: God allowed GB to introduce themselves as his servants in the same manner as God allowed satan to pretend to be an "angel of light". 

Well, that ubiquitous response (God allowed) when there is no right/precise answer is not the answer that solves the dilemma.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

I think the situation that was raised was that of: "a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation".

Dealing with the these words of Jesus as all religions try to do, and WTJWorg in particular, in a way that the end is always expected over and over again in every decade, is a complete failure. But, on the other hand, it is a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation.

Watchman would have an excuse to raise tensions about Armageddon if that really happened within a time-frame that would be “normal”. Just for the sake of parallel, we could take the example of Jeremiah’s prophecy of "70 years" of exile, from Israel. The Jews of that time could expect change when the prophesied years were completed. So it was normal for the people of that time to get married, to have children, to plant vineyards and build houses in such long period of years. 

If there was a WTJWorg Corporation then what would they do? They would have real estate and they would buy and sell properties. Today WTJWorg doing exactly that in all this 140 years period despite warnings how "end is near/close/imminent/within few months/within few years/to the end of the century"..., and so on.

Keeping people in a state of alert and caution for 140 years means that something is definitely wrong. All this time GB has repeatedly given advice that it is not good for JW to get married, have children, to get an education, because Armageddon will come soon and it could be bad for their spiritual safety.

JW members, most of them, because of the continuous spiritual and mental spasm that "tomorrow" come to an end failed to be "normal" in their plans, which are typical for people. Even if we take the example of Noah and the people of that time, getting married, building houses and planting vineyards, for a period of 120 years, was not the reason for the coming of the Flood.

What would have happened if all JWs had obeyed the instructions given to them by the WTJWorg in 1941? No one would marry, no one would have children. How many JWs would there be today if to this day no one in WTJWorg is married and has no children, because they decided to put "Kingdom interests first"?

So, the meaning of the concept and the interpretation of words; "Be awake, be on watch", needs to be changed. And JW's need another/different "Watchman".

On 12/1/2019 at 8:48 PM, AlanF said:

Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. >> -- "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah"-How? - 1971

<< And if the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century, which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that “the conclusion of the system of things” is moving fast toward its end. >> -- October 15, 1980 Watchtower, p. 31

<< It has been thrilling to see the fulfillment of Jesus’ sign showing that the Kingdom was established in the heavens in that momentous year 1914. And Jesus has told us to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time. He has told us that the “generation” of 1914—the year that the sign began to be fulfilled—”will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matthew 24:34) Some of that “generation” could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that “the end” is much closer than that! >> -- March 1, 1984 Watchtower, pp. 18-19

Title of topic - Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?

In this or some other wording, it really doesn't matter. Because all people who made examination about 140 years of WTJWorg teachings, except majority past and today JW members, clearly see how GB doctrines making never ending predictions about "the end". 

Whether they are talking/speaking/predicting about a certain year or a limited period of time, or trying to confirm the coming of the end with world events, or the proximity of the end is linked to the life span of a specific group of people, GB always have one and the same desire; to be the first in the world to say; now comes the end..... and then they wait to see if it will finally happen to them .... this time.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses

Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York, incorporated in 2000 for administration of full-time preaching activities.

I learned one detail just now while searching internet. WT Society is Company, Business, Corporation. And as such they uses all possible ways to do business as optimally as possible. Creating new corporations under the management of the Mother Corporation is part of the business.

IRS using this and other terminology and WTJWorg accepts it. In the same manner as GB and Elders speaking about themselves how they are CLERGY :))) In  JW congregations, Christendom is Clergy, and they are Elders, but in the Courts they are Clergy too, because they want "secular government" to see them as CLERGY. And to have same status as Christendom Clergy.

- https://www.irs.gov/publications/p517#en_US_2016_publink1000255884

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Yes, it’s something I read in @JW Insider topic: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/39516-all-aspects-of-1914-doctrine-are-now-problematic-from-a-scriptural-point-of-view/ where he highlighted, among many points, also this one about "wars and rumors of wars" 

• Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5)

Well, it seems how WTJWorg Leaders in the past and today are convinced how exactly WWI with all other wars are proof for start of Last Days (and Kingdom Rule).  

It is fascinating how we see and read this Bible verse so many time and every time WTJWorg make us to believe GB and not Jesus ! Collective obscuration!!??

On 12/1/2019 at 6:46 AM, Anna said:

Jesus said to keep on the watch because you do not know the day when it's coming, so yes, logically one would have to stay alert. But Jesus also gave signs when the disciples asked him when, and Jesus said when these things occur, (the signs) you will know he is near at the door. So when one sees the sign, one is merely led to a logical conclusion that the "end must be approaching"

If I may, I would interpret that this way: “Keep on watch” in the sense that we are rethinking our own way of life. And, that's what you have to do your whole life.

The second part that talks about “day” and “signs” is too general, because there are signs always and everywhere. Regardless of their quantity and frequency. "Day and signs" in apostle time and for their time are one whole/unit, which begins and ends in one period of time and includes one system (limited geographically and temporally) and as such will not be repeated. 

Dealing with the these words of Jesus as all religions try to do, and WTJWorg in particular, in a way that the end is always expected over and over again in every decade, is a complete failure. But, on the other hand, it is a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

"...the scriptural evidence and the physical facts strongly indicate that such witness work is now almost done; and when it is done the universal war will begin. Universal war is absolutely certain to come and that soon, and no power can stop it. ...during the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties and tell the people that by such means they will keep that world peace and bring about prosperity. (Universal War Near, 1935, p. 3, 26-27)

Bible scholars and Presidents, in the past and today, almost always uses same terminology about the beginning of Armageddon. :)) Of course, with 140 years of failed prognostics, now they using more "neutral" words as, "last days of last days" :)))) 

15 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

EIN: 22-3765681

Mission

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is a religious organization that supports the religious worship of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the United States. Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses uses voluntary contributions to obtain buildings, hold large assemblies, support congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and coordinate Bible-based training programs, all for religious worship, and to provide humanitarian assistance to individuals suffering from natural and man-made disasters. These activities assist people in the community to be law-abiding citizens who live by high moral standards. - https://www.guidestar.org/profile/22-3765681

Directors

On 12/2/2020 at 1:30 PM, 4Jah2me said:

So what was the CCJW before it was the CCJW ?

Watch Tower in Pennsylvania is Mother No 1. (born in 1881) -  today: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania 

After some time she born a Daughter, Watchtower in New York, or Mother No 2. (born in 1909) - today: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

CCJW is Daughter of New York Mother No 2. (born in 2000)

But this is simplistic way, i guess, because of their jobs . Somebody with better insight can elaborate this more accurately. :))

They have separate, different area of activity, but GB is Top Managers for all of them. Of course, so called Helpers are in fact Directors (CEO) in various Departments or entities. 

14 hours ago, Witness said:

What would it be like if the GB said, “we’ve made mistakes, and we’ve mislead people.   We need to realize what damage we’ve done to many who believed in our teachings that proved to be false. Perhaps we should make amends with those who have lost faith in us – in our organization.  Perhaps we should look closer at the teachings of Jesus”. 

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” Luke 19

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Sorry to say, you just don't understand what incorporated means in business.

New Corporations Formed

The January 15, 2001, issue of The Watchtower reported on the organized way in which Jehovah’s Witnesses are continuing to move forward with the Kingdom work in all the earth. It also explained how various legal entities are used as instruments to facilitate the spreading of the good news. Such entities or corporations are necessary to conform to local and national laws, as required by God’s Word. (Rom. 13:1) Because of the diversity and scope of our work, the Governing Body has approved the formation of additional corporations to care for certain needs of Jehovah’s Witnesses here in the United States. The new corporations are as follows:

Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Religious Order of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Kingdom Support Services, Inc.

These will operate along with Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. Congregations and publishers may receive correspondence from any of these corporations. Your cooperation with these adjustments made by the Governing Body in fulfilling its assignment to care for all the Master’s belongings will be greatly appreciated.—Matt. 24:45-47. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202002009

Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a not-for-profit corporation organized on August 21, 2000, in the state of New York. The purposes of the corporation are religious, educational, and charitable. -https://www.guidestar.org/profile/22-3765681#summary

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is a nonprofit corporation formed in 1884 under the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, U.S.A. It is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to support their worldwide work, which includes publishing Bibles and Bible-based literature.

According to its charter, the corporation’s purposes are “religious, educational, and charitable,” in particular, to “preach and teach the gospel of God’s Kingdom under Christ Jesus.” Membership in the corporation is by invitation only and is not based on how much a person has donated. The corporation members and directors assist the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. - https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/watchtower-society/

According to simple explanations made on WTJWorg interenet pages it seems how all this corporations doing same work, namely:  purposes are “religious, educational, and charitable. 

But for beginners like me it is interesting to read also this:

Incorporation has many advantages for a business and its owners, including:

Protects the owner's assets against the company's liabilities.

Allows for easy transfer of ownership to another party.

Often achieves a lower tax rate than on personal income.

Usually receives more lenient tax restrictions on loss carryforwards.

Can raise capital through the sale of stock.

Other Advantages of Incorporation

Incorporation effectively creates a protective bubble of limited liability, often called a corporate veil, around a company's shareholders and directors. As such, incorporated businesses can take the risks that make growth possible without exposing the shareholders, owners, and directors to personal financial liability outside of their original investments in the company.

GB directing and approving all operations of all WT companies around the World. 

41 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Sorry to say, you just don't understand what incorporated means in business. The only thing, your submission proves is what the State is asking a judgement on. The Watchtower disagrees with that assumption and rightfully so. 

It would be like if "you personally" bought a "firearm" that was used in a murder. The State now wants to charge you personally for that murder just because you are in "possession" of that gun. You had nothing to do with the murder, and you knew nothing about the murder or heard about it.

What you are saying it seems, you agree with the State that you should be charged for murder just because you are now in possession of that murder weapon. If that sounds logical to you, there's something funny about the legal system in your country. It's NOT democratic.

Thanks, for illustration. 

Let continue with example you gave. One part of that story you presented speaking of "gun that is in possession of individual who are innocent".  I would like to ask you: If authority ask that individual to handle this gun with which crime was committed, would it be problem for him, innocent individual to hand over that gun to police?

The message and lesson of your story would be this:

CCJW go to police and court and say;  look, we have documents given to us (or, which we found in WT basement, or, which we purchased at a sale of WT property ...,) by the WT of New York. They produced those documents and they are responsible for the processes in which they participated. We are just a kind of warehouse, an archive in which we keep their documents. Please take this documents as sign of good will from our side, because we obey Cesar's law.