Srecko Sostar

22 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Incorrect! The Watchtower doesn't make opinions when it comes to scripture and applying it there of. Therefore, twisting words doesn't matter with such an opinionated argument.

In my opinion :)).., WTJWorg do make opinions about Scripture. Otherwise, decades of "clarifications" and "new lights" and changed or modified doctrines would never have happened/occurred ..... recurring error/false doctrines. 

18 hours ago, Witness said:

21 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

or even equal. But no!

What were you expecting, another earthly organization?

It seems so. :))

16 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I couldn't agree more Srecko. The unfounded truth is suggestive to ex-witnesses such as yourself that believe they're truth has merit. Therefore, those truths are unfounded, since they are NOT based on facts just a lot of double-talk and misleading conjecture. If it sounds weird, then you would have to apply it, to unfounded false claims coming from opposers. Only, "integrity" separate both kinds of truth, as you say one side would end up being lies.

Perhaps i have another explanation on this. If You or I or anyone else believes in something that it is, must be "the truth", all other dialogue or arguments or facts means nothing to such person. The truth is only what I believe to be true. :))

17 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Just remember, my opinion was in general terms while you'res is specific. 

Is this possible to interpret how WTJWorg GB have opinions in specific terms and JW members in general terms? And by that personal faith, spirituality and understanding stops on general terms level?

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

However, witnesses need to have a clear understanding of many unfounded truths that came out of the ARC 2016 inquiry.

.... many unfounded truths ....

This sentence is weird. If something is "Truth" than that is based on proofs and is grounded on facts.

Lies are unfounded. In other words, subject don't have sound basis.

It is not possible for Truth to be unfounded. 

Some JW members have unfounded conclusions and prejudices about ARC because they heard Rumors about ARC. You contribute to this rumors. GB member G. Jackson endeavored to do everything possible so that the WT would not be held accountable for its members who had been exposed to violence in the past, or would be in the future. Another fact have to be clear to JW people too, how some of them will be CSA victim inside JW Congregation. ARC Inquiry and Report showed what was wrong with WT Policy. And 2016 WT study article what @Anna  mentioned, i guess, said nothing about WTJWorg  errors and wrongs and damages which arose due to bad policies and instructions which the elders had to follow. 

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Therefore, your view should be unacceptable to any honest witness.

I am sure @Anna don't need me to defend her position on this but she is honest enough and your statement are unacceptable and need to be dismiss.

50 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say.

Here is an example of Jesus using  'NOT a good role model' but showing how they should be obedient to instruction whilst not copying example. 

In "normal circumstances" every religious leader and every politician and every average person will tell you: Be good, obey god, obey law, be honest, speak truth etc, etc.

GB members in "normal circumstances" doing exactly this, teaching their flock to be good people. But behind curtain they instruct lawyers to speak things that are not giving real picture about what is going on, that are not the truth but deceiving and manipulative.

In matters of doctrines and directives, JW members need to be very cautious about words too. In such context i would take Jesus' words relatively.  

WTJWorg is Company registered as Charity. Every single Congregation are registered as Charity under WTJWorg Supervision. 

In the moment you have been baptized as one of JW you entered into Contract with WTJWorg.

Am i right? :))

25 minutes ago, Anna said:

What they are saying is that the final attack (that prompts Armageddon) is not made up of separate attacks.

I understand. But i also understand that GB talking too much, and writing too much. Well, they made thesis, on this subject and many others. JW members took it as "the truth" and integrated it as issue of faith and loyalty to JHVH and Jesus. 

After adopting the idea, the human assumption, JWs begin to observe events through such a faulty filter and continue to rely on GB to confirm or deny their projections. In this example; Who says when "final attacks" begin? How do They know that? They, GB, believed for decades in "wrong" idea about who is Gog. Even Ronald Reagan and Bible scholars of those time period interpreted matter in a way similar or same to what JW consider as "the truth" now. Well, do JW's can accept the reality of the fact that "God gives truth” to everyone, not just some? G. Jackson publicly confirm, before ARC, how they are not the only spokesperson for God. If this is "the truth" for him, is it for You or every other JW member?

Of course, one of possibility is how all of this or parts of this what we talking about is also wrong. 

All in all, WTJWorg and GB constantly prove that, in a theological sense, they are part of "the sea thrown by the waves". In a corporate sense, WTJWorg is a structure that must feed itself in order to survive. For this purpose, it uses double standards, one for its lawyers who represent it before the world, and the other criteria for members.

Let me to illustrate this with what i learned before few years in one Court document, and today with another one which i quote here:

From a legal standpoint, all congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses are separately registered charities with their own independent committee of management. No separate legal entity in Australia exerts authority over the congregations.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/National_Redress_Scheme/NationalRedressScheme/Submissions

Are you and your Congregation independent from Bethel, CO, GB and WT or any other WT Company and their Representatives ?? No!  

Kingdom interests on the earth have been entrusted to “the faithful and discreet slave,” which is represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) The Governing Body is primarily concerned with providing spiritual instruction and direction for the Christian congregation. (Acts 6:1-6) - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20010115/Keep-in-Step-With-Jehovahs-Organization/

Double tongued, or as our friend @César Chávez would say "double mouth".

32 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do these represent separate attacks? Not likely. The Bible is no doubt referring to the same attack under different names. Why can we draw that conclusion? Because the Scriptures tell us that all the nations of the earth will be involved in this final attack that prompts the war of Armageddon.—Rev. 16:14, 16. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20150515/gog-of-magog/

Do WTJWorg GB consider as an "attack under different names" also; many lawsuits against WT, all sorts of inquiries on WTJWorg policies and procedures from Police in many countries, from ARC in Australia, from The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) England and Wales etc?

Well, all nations are involved. Some of them make pressure on JW, some of them persecute JW, some of them allows bad things to happen to JW, some of them defending JW human rights, some of them play double game etc. All nations are involved somehow.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Remember when Mark Sanderson declared in a video, that Russia is the "King of the North" when things were first heating up? 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

There is a simple explanation to your questions. The attack on JWs in Russia is not considered to be the attack that will happen during the great tribulation. What is happening in Russia is viewed as regular persecution. Perhaps close to the great tribulation, but not quite.

President Ronald Reagan once said in a famous speech: Ezekiel tells us that Gog, the nation that will lead all of the other powers of darkness against Israel, will come out of the north. Biblical scholars have been saying for generations that Gog must be Russia. What other powerful nation is to the north of Israel? None. But it didn't seem to make sense before the Russian revolution, when Russia was a Christian country. Now it does, now that Russia has become communistic and atheistic, now that Russia has set itself against God. Now it fits the description of Gog perfectly. - Ronald Reagan in 1971, then California governor, in a dinner speech to state legislators; here cited from Lind 1996: 320 - https://www.mohrsiebeck.com/uploads/tx_sgpublisher/produkte/leseproben/9783161475207.pdf

From today's aspect Russia is Christian country again. Obviously, Bible Scholars in and out side WTJWorg facing with new dilemmas. :))

For decades WTJWorg GB doctrine/interpretations was how satan, devil is Gog of Magog.

Also, before 5 years they changed interpretation/doctrine and said also this:  

Who, then, is Gog of Magog? To answer that question, we need to search the Scriptures to find out who attacks God’s people. The Bible speaks not only of the attack by ‘Gog of Magog’ but also of the attack by “the king of the north” and of the attack by “the kings of the earth.” (Ezek. 38:2, 10-13; Dan. 11:40, 44, 45; Rev. 17:14; 19:19) Do these represent separate attacks? Not likely. The Bible is no doubt referring to the same attack under different names. Why can we draw that conclusion? Because the Scriptures tell us that all the nations of the earth will be involved in this final attack that prompts the war of Armageddon.—Rev. 16:14, 16. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20150515/gog-of-magog/

I respect your believe @Anna but as you can see, GB Scholars presented different view.  

WT GB theology, supposedly biblically grounded, and most important, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as GB say, explains why people suffer, why there is great evil in the world, and especially why the followers of Christ are subjected to persecution, especially from 1914 till now .
In addition to the general explanation that humans are imperfect because of Adam and Eve sin, there is also the interpretation how satan and demons generate evil and are behind all attacks on JW members. Recently, the focus has been on Russia, and still is. For example, this two quotes say:

During the 2019 annual meeting, Brother Mark Sanderson of the Governing Body delivered the talk entitled “What Do We Have to Fear?” The talk included this video segment with experiences from some of our brothers and sisters who have been persecuted in Russia. - https://www.jw.org/ase/news/jw/region/russia/No-Reason-to-Fear-Persecution/

As Russian authorities continue to fabricate lies to discredit our reputation as peace-loving people, we recall the words of Jesus, who foretold that opposers would “lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against” his disciples.—Matthew 5:11. - https://www.jw.org/ase/news/jw/region/russia/witnesses-framed-extremist-weapons-20181019/

What said the teaching?

Many people reject God because they blame him for suffering. Directly or indirectly, many religious leaders have taught that God is the cause of our suffering. But is it possible that religious leaders have misrepresented God? What if God has rejected them? God does not cause our suffering. God rejects religion that misrepresents him. This includes religions that teach that God causes our suffering and those that are involved with warfare and violence. - https://www.jw.org/ase/library/magazines/awake-no2-2020-jul-aug/is-god-to-blame-for-our-suffering/

According to the latest explanation of who “Gog of Magog” is, JW members have learned that it is not Satan, but that it is a “coalition of the people”. Russia also belongs to this "coalition".
In his TV sermon, D. Splane, as a “guardian of doctrine,” reads a passage from Ez. 38: 4 with explanation how JHVH talk words to this "coalition of nation". It says:  "I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords." 

D. Splane explained the idea how "coalition of nation" didn't want to attack His nation, but JHVH redirected direction of "coalition". He said: "Timing of the attack is Jehovah's .. as some point following the destruction of Babylon The Great, Jehovah may in some way lure the nations into carrying out what is already in their hearts. Jehovah will thus set the stage for the attach that leads to Armageddon ......."   Ez 38:10 state:  You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

How else do WT publications answer the question of why people (JW members) suffer?

Humans bear a heavy responsibility for suffering. Some suffering is brought on by our own choices. Suffering is not punishment from God. On the contrary, much of it is random—often, a matter of someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our sinful nature contributes to suffering. - https://www.jw.org/ase/library/magazines/awake-no2-2020-jul-aug/blame-for-own-suffering/

JW suffer in Russia not need to have nothing with GB claims, how they are the only true religion and because they follow Jesus, as reasons for Russian Government ban on WTJWorg. Because, supposedly, Russia as all other governments that are part of "coalition of nations" want to harm WTJWorg because they are True Religion Organization. 

Is the ban of WTJWorg in 34 countries around the world an attack by a “coalition of nations”? Was it, Is it "timing is Jehovah's"? Who cause suffer for JW in Russia ? Russia or because JHVH brought them against "his land"? Is this Russian attack on " JW True Religion" contrary to GB idea how "UN will attack false religion first and at the end they will attack the "true religion"? Because in reality, all sorts of religion ("true and/or false") have experienced attack through the centuries. 

Does the attack of the "coalition" at this time, not recognize the difference between "true and false religion", and mistakenly persecute WTJWorg? What is wrong with their "attack timing"? Didn't they read the WT study magazines, because according to it, they must first start destroying all "false religions" and not create problems for "true religion"? 

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

..... both sides of the coin

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

.... both sides of your mouth

As far as i can understand English this is two different things :))

9 hours ago, John Houston said:

I have been in this faith for Som 50+ years and seen a lot. I have been behind the curtain so there is nothing hidden from my eyes having been an elders son. I knew of the envelopes and the procedure they go through aback in the day, when maybe there should have been more safe guards and empathy for those who were victims. But I also saw the lies told to enact processes on innocent people that destroyed families. So I have knowledge of both sides of the coin.

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And if you have first hand knowledge of the crimes committed in your Org, by the Elders and others, then you should have reported those things to the Police or other 'Superior Authorities'. So it seems that you are part of the problem. 

In April 2008, the Elders summoned Ria for questioning in connection with their investigation. (R. 83–84.) The Elders first questioned Ria (who was accompanied by her mother and stepfather) for 45 minutes about her interactions with Mr. Williams, including whether Ria had voluntarily engaged in sexual activity with him. (R. 84.) Having failed to obtain the information they wanted, the Elders then played an audio recording that Mr. Williams had provided that captured the sound of one of the times he had raped Ria. - https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2019/11/Williams-Brief-for-Petitioner.pdf

Whether this is voluntary or forced sex, the question arises: why would a JW man record sex in his car? And then, why would he give the tape to JW elders?

And to top it all off, why would a legal body in the church accept such a recording unless it is a buy/sell situation? Is that Mr. Williams sells the record for a milder sentence and puts all the blame on Ria?

13 hours ago, Witness said:

The “soil” was not fortified over the years, just as it isn’t today.

Absolutely! What JWs call “spiritual food” can be divided into two categories.

The first is: Simple and generally accepted moral values that are embedded in the consciousness and conscience of people.
The second is: Theological-administrative doctrinal nomenclature, of Previous and Present Teachings. The Previous Teachings actually, in simple, clear and normal wording means wrong, err, false teachings, apostasy. ....and The Present Teachings means ostensibly correct, something that will be swallowed by some new interpretation in the future.

One of the very obvious and very clear examples of theological misconceptions, is the teaching of the "Generation of 1914." To keep parts of that concept alive, they invented the “Overlapping Generation”.

13 hours ago, Witness said:

If JWs could only see that the organization runs solely on the doctrine of men.  As you say, “disappointment is inevitable”. 

Similar to 1975 calculations and interpretations that came from WT Administration, JW people do and will react to "Overlapping Generation" in similar way as they did and they do now to 1975.

As  @Emma Rose in "deep wisdom" say: We'd wait and see. Of course, we don't need to wait long. Apologists for WTJWorg already continuously and zealously defend every past and present failure. 

There are two results associated with JW and the year 1975.

The WT administration made great efforts in a spiritual and literal sense to “save” as many people as possible from Armageddon who were expecting at the time. The increase in the number of members (until 1975) was great because the effort invested in preaching was enormous. But the “inflated spiritual food” offered on the GB spiritual table caused a second result after 1975. A major departure from the organization. Yes, members leaving “Noah’s Ark” was a debacle for the New York Administration, for sure. 

In fact, I think that the spiritual condition of the JW members at that time was exactly the same as today's JW and vice versa. JW people are willing to believe in the hope and interpretations of their religious leaders. There was no change, people still want and have to believe in some sort/version of "the truth". As a consequence of such a general state of mind and spirit of the collective and of the majority of individuals in that collective, disappointment is inevitable. 

The WT administration is in a closed circle of constant doctrinal debacles. Bigger and smaller debacles, which in each new generation / version are called "knowledge that multiplies" and "light that shines more and more", "clarifications", "adjustments" etc, etc.

Like all other people, JW members want to believe in God and Justice and a better Future. And it’s a lure/bait that attracts. It is a soil on which many hopes can grow. And that is why it is a powerful means of attracting and keeping people in spiritual captivity, with a few phrases of truth and many misconceptions.

Perhaps you will find this interesting and educative.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Therefore, let's return to topic: UN investigator: Rights of minorities to worship undermined

Government restrictions on religion increasing worldwide

By DAVID CRARY July 15, 2019 - https://apnews.com/article/3f554ea6fe6a42c08c0618745eee8c2b

NEW YORK (AP) — Government restrictions on religion have increased markedly in many places around the world, not only in authoritarian countries, but also in many of Europe’s democracies, according to a report surveying 198 countries that was released Monday.

The report released by the Pew Research Center, covering developments through 2017, also seeks to document the scope of religion-based harassment and violence. Regarding the world’s two largest religions, it said Christians were harassed in 143 countries and Muslims in 140.

............ In Spain, according to the report, some municipal governors have introduced bans on burqas and face-covering veils, and have also restricted public preaching and proselytizing by such groups as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Circumcision of boys also has been an issue in Europe. Muslim and Jewish groups in Germany and Slovenia have complained of government officials interfering in their religious traditions by trying to criminalize circumcision for nonmedical reasons.

............ Another category in the report was religious harassment by individuals and social groups. The United States ranked among the worst-scoring countries in this category in 2017, in part because of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, where white supremacist protesters displayed swastika flags and chanted anti-Semitic slogans.

Pew said the biggest increase in religious hostility by individuals occurred in Europe. Victims of violence, in incidents cited in the report, include Jehovah’s Witnesses in Ukraine and a rabbi and a Muslim woman in Belgium.

In Germany, Pew said, there were reports that thousands of refugees were pressured to convert to Christianity after being warned they might otherwise be deported.................

“Almost every faith that’s a majority somewhere is a minority somewhere else and often gets persecuted where they’re a minority,” Brownback said at a State Department briefing. “So that’s why a big part of our effort is to get the faiths to come together and to stand for each other.”

“We’re not talking common theology here — nobody agrees on theology,” he added. “We’re talking about a common human right.”

After this article and highlighted/bold ending quotes i will continue to remind readers with recent example how religious leaders and their lawyers unitedly acting in their searching for "human aka religious rights/freedom". 

WT Lawyer David Gnam, under WTJWorg GB approval and blessings, he sought, received, and accepted the support of his religious dissenters (in this Court case they are Intervenors. There were 12 intervenors in the case — eight were religious organizations, including the World Sikh Organization of Canada. - https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/news/general/scc-says-courts-cant-decide-procedural-fairness-of-religious-organizations/275200).

In different circumstances they are all “spiritual enemies” of JW elder David Gnam. Moreover, JW elder David Gnam in his preaching activity and from the assembly podium explains how the religious leaders of all other religions that do not belong to JW will be destroyed because they are Christ’s opponents who advocate the devil’s false teaching. 

It is of great importance to see the WT JWorg hypocrisy in this example. Official doctrine forbids JW members from associating with “unbelievers” except when they are in the "field service of preaching the gospel". David Gnam does not preach the gospel in the courtroom nor refute the false teachings of these other religious and secular “false teachers”. What does David Gnam, JW elder and lawyer, do? He teams up with leaders of “false religions” to gain their support and win in secular court.

With what result?  Respondent’s Lawyer said this:

"The decision seems to say the courts will not intervene in unfair practices by religious groups, even if their decisions have severely detrimental effects, as religion and its community membership can be so central to a person’s life.

“One need only think about what religious organizations are all about to understand the huge potential for expulsion or shunning to detrimentally affect a member's life. . . The potential for harm at the hands of a religious organization is, therefore, great,” he says.

 https://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/parties-eng.aspx?cas=37273

35 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

This is where you are completely wrong. I entered this forum in order for visitors to understand, ex-witnesses are allowed to vent and rant while someone who holds the truth gets kicked out of the forum. Those that get kicked out, usually set ex-witnesses straight about their erroneous and misleading ideology. Therefore, I have no need to know about the lives of people other than to show others the confusion, people have here. 

 

:)) I can be in the wrong but not completely wrong. 

You are entitled to make whatever explanations and excuses for your participating on this or any other public site. Not sure should i believe in your reasons or motives but that is of minor importance for subject we discuss.

Who is in confusion here or outside of this forum? Who need your help? JW public preaching in line with WT instructions is tool for JW members ... but instead you choose spend time on debates. :)) That is sort of distraction from main goal - preaching about Jesus and Gospel. We have 8 followers and 506 views of this topic ... so, how many of them are confused?

23 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

First off, as usual Srecko, you need to understand the context of the article when freedom of religion was a problem even in the United States. Even the Watchtower went to bat for that first amendment right. Does that mean the Watchtower is in agreement with other religious ideologies? NO! That is the proposition you contend with, not the Org.

A religious voice that is now beginning to be silenced by subversive and hateful people. That is the ideology the devil set in place for the end of days. Not just for the Watchtower but, all organized religion. When that door closes, it will be no different from the door closing in Noah's ark. 

To help finding context, some more quotes from another WT publications:

 What Does Religious Freedom Mean to You?

Surely, we would expect any nation that genuinely cares for its subjects to grant such freedom. Sadly, this does not always happen.......Consider, for example, the situation that prevailed for many years in Mexico. Although the Constitution guaranteed religious freedom, it stipulated: “Churches used for public worship are the property of the Nation, represented by the Federal Government, who shall determine which ones can continue to be used as such.” In 1991 the Constitution was amended to end this restriction. Nevertheless, this example illustrates that religious freedom may be interpreted differently in various lands.....Interestingly, however, there is a kind of religious freedom that does not depend at all upon locale. While in Jerusalem in the year 32 C.E., Jesus said to his followers: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:31, 32. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1997080

Protecting Freedoms—How?

We naturally tend to reject or suspect that which is different or unusual, especially views that differ from our own. Does this mean that tolerance is impossible?...What should be the aim of this education? The magazine UNESCO Courier suggests that instead of fostering rejection of religious movements, “education for tolerance should aim at countering influences that lead to fear and exclusion of others, and should help young people to develop capacities for independent judgement, critical thinking and ethical reasoning.”....

The Best Way to Fight Intolerance

Tolerance does not mean that everyone should have the same ideas. People might disagree with one another. Some may feel strongly that the beliefs of another person are very wrong. They may even speak publicly of their disagreements. However, as long as they do not spread lies to try to incite prejudice, this is not intolerance. Intolerance is seen when a group is persecuted, targeted by special laws, marginalized, banned, or in some other way hindered from following their beliefs. In the most extreme form of intolerance, some kill and others have to die for their beliefs.

How can intolerance be fought? It can be exposed publicly, as the apostle Paul exposed the intolerance of religious leaders of his day. (Acts 24:10-13) When possible, though, the best way to fight intolerance is to work proactively—to promote tolerance, that is, to educate people to understand others better. The UN report on the elimination of intolerance referred to earlier says: “As all forms of intolerance and discrimination based on religion or belief have their birth in the human mind, so it is at human minds that action should initially be directed.” Such education may even lead individuals to examine their own beliefs. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101999003

It is notable, now, how WT publications in those periods of time, made praises to UN and try to show how UN goals are of benefit for all people, including JW.

Does WTJWorg stand today on same UN ideas about "religious tolerance" or you think how WTJWorg changed "context" for different sort of understanding? :))

52 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Does that mean the Watchtower is in agreement with other religious ideologies? NO! That is the proposition you contend with, not the Org.

WTJWorg public claims are how JW members have to "tolerate" and "respect" other religious ideologies. What does this mean in "your context" of understanding? To "shun" people who think differently? And to not even say "simple hello" to ex-JW? :)) 

Obviously, you are not part of such JW majority, because you doing even more than simple hello, you discuss spiritual things with ex-JW, which is forbidden activity according to JW Leaders. It seems you show more religious tolerance and less discrimination than GB mandatory instructions. And that is good. Up-vote for you!

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

One cannot compare this to JWs. We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.  We do not mix with those... but we do not stop them from practicing their new choices. 

We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.

This statement and such attitude shows "religious discrimination". It seems how everyone who choose different religion belongs to "traitors" of JHVH. 

Islam claim how Abraham, Moses and Jesus + Mohamed are God's representatives of true religion aka Islam. 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

In most Muslim countries you can go to jail or be killed for practicing another religion.

In time of Moses, practicing another religion or different beliefs was also punishable by death.   

Well, after having past and present facts, we face the question: Do we want religious freedom for all or only for selected? 

On 11/5/2020 at 2:28 AM, Isabella said:

In addition, he said, Jehovah’s Witnesses are banned in 34 countries and it is reportedly difficult or illegal to run a humanist organization in over 30 countries.

Shaheed said the right to legal identity and citizenship has also been stripped because of religion and beliefs.

“Shia Muslims in Bahrain, Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar, and Jehovah’s Witnesses in Eritrea and Russia have had their citizenship revoked or denied on the basis of their religious identity,” he said. “In Vietnam, Hmong and Montagnard Christians have been unable to secure the necessary `house register’ documentation for citizenship. Non-Muslims may not obtain citizenship in Maldives.”

In Iran, unrecognized religious or belief groups, including the Baha'is, are unable to access employment, housing, university-level education, health care and social services, including pensions,” Shaheed said. And in Egypt and Malaysia, human rights organizations report that identity cards issued to minorities often fail to display their religious identity leading to discrimination in government services.

Full article: https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/world/un-investigator/46MXMZSYGEUYPTXDBD4O5IXR4Q/

On 11/5/2020 at 1:30 PM, Arauna said:

Religious discrimination just going to get worse as this system ticks on.

Dear members of JW. I would like to draw your attention to an article in your journal Awake, Under the headline, the author of the article, who is no doubt a JW, put the ideological idea of UN organization from 1948. You call that same organization "the scarlet colored beast that came out of the abyss" and how this Beast is "full of blasphemous names."

How is it possible that the author of the article, with the approval of GB, invokes such an organization and accepts the “blasphemous” ideology of Article 18 and at the same time “prophesies” against the UN?

Let's see what Article 18 says.

Religious Intolerance Today

“Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.” Article 18, Universal Declaration Of Human Rights, 1948. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101999001?q=minorities&p=par

Article continues:

DO YOU enjoy religious freedom in your country? Most countries in the world ostensibly subscribe to this noble principle, ....It is estimated, however, that in numerous countries where intolerance and discrimination are hard realities, countless millions of people today do not enjoy religious freedom. ....

“Discrimination based upon religion or conviction exists in almost all economic, social, and ideological systems and in all parts of the world,” noted Angelo d’Almeida Ribeiro, former Special Rapporteur appointed by the UN Commission on Human Rights. In their book Freedom of Religion and Belief—A World Report, published in 1997, editors Kevin Boyle and Juliet Sheen state: “Religious persecution of minority faiths [and] the proscribing of beliefs and pervasive discrimination . . . are daily occurrences at the end of the twentieth century.”....

Religious discrimination can take many forms.....The book Freedom of Religion and Belief cites other examples of intolerance: “Heresy and heretics are not only an image from the past. . . . Rejection, persecution and discrimination towards those who have taken a different path remain a major cause of intolerance. ...." Clearly, religious freedom is under threat in many parts of the world....

..., the director of the Human Rights Centre of the University of Essex, United Kingdom, observed: “All evidence points to the conclusion that religious intolerance . . . is increasing rather than decreasing in the modern world.” Such increasing intolerance threatens religious freedom, perhaps your religious freedom. Why, though, is religious freedom so important?.....

Freedom of religion is like part of the foundation of a building. Other freedoms—civil, political, cultural, and economic—are built upon it. If the foundation is undermined, the whole edifice suffers....

If other freedoms are to be protected, religious freedom needs to be safeguarded first.

In order to discern how best to protect something, it is essential to understand it. What are the roots of religious freedom? How was it established, and at what price?

The parts of the text that I put in bold are the messages of the author of the article. It is very hypocritical for the author of an article to invoke something that forbids to their own members. And if some member change or is in process of changing their religious beliefs, then the Organization, together with its members, subjects them to religious intolerance and spiritual and literal persecution.

JW members in their public preaching announce that there will come a New World in which only those who accept the WTJWorg doctrine will live and be able to exist. Please, then, what kind of religious tolerance and religious freedom do you want to exist today and tomorrow for the religious majority and for religious minority?

17 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

GB are happy getting money from anyone

:))) yes. Money is "neutral" devil's invention. Money don't have religious affiliation and exist for all, to be able to buy nice things and joy ... as Solomon would say. It belongs to all people, no matter are they Catholic, Muslim or JW.

Here is another KH sold to Islamic centre. :)) 

https://acorn.agencypilot.com/store/documents/other/253504_49hn3294r6063mrc.pdf?agtype=7&agkey=444+26748

https://www.hyderi.org.uk/news/development-of-new-hyderi-islamic-centre-into-multipurpose-comple/?fbclid=IwAR3AKpazFX-0lkXSr4zwQTyqgVhUD3pJ8tgliM9kV8e_TYJWPManPjiot2w