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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Srecko Sostar
    WT Lawyer David Gnam explicit claim and argument in court is how the words “shun and shunning” do not exist in the vocabulary and practice of the JW church. He mixing spiritual and personal needs/life, but that is not problem, because both is not separate. Must exist together . And i do not have to "justify" nothing about it because of same reasons. Siting near other persons and singing together with other persons (David Gnam statement) and much more than this two, belongs to that same category you named - "spiritual and personal". Why you need me to make "explanation" or "justification" on this?? I really don't understand. What i "don't understand" is, why lawyer David Gnam Exposé on Court about JW religious beliefs and practice is opposite of what JW doing !!
  2. Srecko Sostar
    As I mentioned before, in comment to Arauna, my primary response is about WT Lawyer and his false presentation of reality about dfd and shunning ! If you have something about it we can continue with conversation. Have no interest, temporary, arguing about this JW religious ideology and doctrine. Thanks!
  3. Srecko Sostar
    If "messy" process lead to "right" findings that would be sort of miracle. A chaotic sequence of events consequently produces harmony. :)) Sometimes it could be possible, but each and every time? The destruction of the notes must be supervised and there must be exact instructions as to what is being destroyed and after how long time. Some notes, especially those explaining why and how the members of the legal (judicial) committee came to extremely important findings and conclusions should have a very long lifespan in some cases forever (or as long as the parties involved are alive). Especially when it comes to cases that are legally punishable. Elders received, as i can conclude from general understanding, directive from Bethel, Legal Department or some other WT Deportment, you would know better, to destroy some sort of notes about this and that subject. But all those elders, they do not know what the regulations and procedures are when extracting and destroying archival and registry material. I am very sure they making big mistakes in this matter.
  4. Srecko Sostar
    I haven't any information, knowledge or assumption are dishonesty of WT lawyers known to those who arrange their services before Court process. But, WTJWorg people, individuals who hired lawyers, they are certainly well acquainted with the main elements that their lawyer will use as a defense. Because of this premonition, the responsible people in the WT who deal with legal matters have a great responsibility. But because of the frequent practice of WT lawyers to deceive, present half-truths and obscure reality, I think that such JW individuals who hire lawyers (JW lawyers and non-JW lawyers) belong to the same described group from your comment..... And all that is possible with donated money, money that comes from various JW members, from old/young and not wealthy, from children. How sad. How very sad!
  5. Srecko Sostar
    Thanks for your good intentions about me, but i ask, kindly request you again, to read my "questionable" comments, more carefully.
  6. Srecko Sostar
    Dear Arauna, i didn't comment this aspect of WT policies about why dfd is part of JW faith. And i wouldn't. I simply and clearly put on daylight what and how WT Lawyer doing in Court in his/their attempt to defend Image of religious "mountain-like organization", before secular authorities and before other "sister's religious" organizations, representatives who attended court process. I think that your comment have to be a addressed to Mr. David Gnam !
  7. Srecko Sostar
    Watch the video Loyally Uphold Jehovah’s Judgments—Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers, and then answer the following questions: - https://www.jw.org/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/september-2017-mwb/meeting-schedule-sept18-24/loyal-when-relative-disfellowshipped/ Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes, for several reasons. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/disfellowshipped-person/ Synonyms for avoidance Synonyms: cop-out, dodging, ducking, eluding, elusion, escape, eschewal, eschewing, evasion, out, shaking, shunning - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avoidance You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation. 17 Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals* was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court. 18 The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, ... - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1988287#h=51 Please, dear JW defenders, Do you really need to defend WT lawyer Mr David Gnam twisting, lying on Court?
  8. Srecko Sostar
    WT Lawyer Mr. David Gnam: “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual. […] The nature of the relationship, then, of a disfellowshipped person is not completely shunned. The disfellowshipped person is able to come into the congregation meetings, they’re able to attend in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they’re able to sit wherever they like, they can sing the spiritual songs with the congregation. Well, this is full of contradiction or, as you would say, this is so "twisted". If dfd person comes to KH, sit there and sing with JW who are not dfd, how this is not "spiritual fellowship"? They siting and singing together "spiritual songs". And now, one more "twisted reality is this". If such dfd individual and his JW brothers want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH" would that be OK according to WT Lawyer, according to WT publications, according to you?? Because if they go in pub and siting and drinking beer together that is not against genuine WT Lawyer explanation - “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual. Because if they drink a beer or coffee together, what "spiritual component" existing in that?? Perhaps that would be "social component"? But as we all know very well "socializing with dfd or non-JW person" outside of JW "spiritual activity" (that is preaching and Bible study, meetings in KH), that would be FORBIDDEN, sinful BEHAVIOR in JW church, according to WT publications and according JW elders interpretations. Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. Is this "twisting or lying" ??
  9. Srecko Sostar
    Who did it? Me? Where please? I thing how i didn't mention GJ in this topic. And please, i never twisting other people words. If i comment their quotes that is not "twisting" :))
  10. Srecko Sostar
    Don't worry, Tom. I know my very short and very simple comment hurts, but the pain will pass.
  11. Srecko Sostar
    FLEXIBILITY vs OBEY :)))
  12. Srecko Sostar
    Yes, i also see this as problem. No religious organization, in this case a Christian, can provide complete and accurate knowledge and explanations of biblical events or of Jesus. When a believer realizes that his or her affiliation with a particular church does not provide “salvation,” it should help him or her build a “spiritual” rather than a “literal” faith. In fact, WTJWorg also argues that baptism alone (baptism as a JW member) does not ensure the survival of Armageddon or the resurrection. Therefore, WTJWorg is a source of contradiction, not only in this topic; salvation is possible only in a JW organization, but also in many other doctrines. Once more. All changes in the teachings and interpretations of the biblical text, as well as interpretations of dogmas in the teachings of the JW organization, then "clarifications" and "new light", can in no way be a guarantee to JW believers that their "salvation" is possible only in this "organization". Reassure yourself that "my organization" has the highest number of correct teachings than any other organization, it can not be guarantee for "salvation". Did Jesus say anywhere that one's affiliation with a particular church would be crucial in separating "sheep from goats" in Judgement Day?.
  13. Srecko Sostar
    Me too. Can somebody explain why?
  14. Srecko Sostar
    It seems, sounds good ... from your perspective. And it is reflection of your "faith" and "trust" in God and GB. I can't and don't want join you in such evaluation of GB work. I want to believe in human sincerity and from that point i am ready to believe how many JW people also not purposely oppose God's will. Nevertheless, their or mine "beliefs" does not nullify reality how people, generally, oppose God's will, purposely or unintentionally. Result of both "motives" is/are ........ bad consequences. With that consequences are; years or decades of wrong, err doctrines, teachings, directives, deeds, words and emotions. And all that is, religiously said, false worship. Well, purposely or not, false worship IS false worship. And WT printed tons of magazines, books and public talks about it, not showing any "mercy" to those other who not worshiping God in "proper" aka JW way of worship. WT publication criticized and judged not only other religion's doctrines but also behavior of their's members. When WT Management in past or today, aka GB+Helpers, speaking how this or that doctrine and interpretation and instruction is "God's thought" or "Jesus's thought" or "biblically grounded" and after they denied it and replaced with "new divine thoughts", what is that? Opposing God? Opposing sound mind? Fooling God? Opposing XY, etc? Dr Furuli will need to live with their own past and with their own future. And find something to stay "alive". Thanks for respond and thoughts.
  15. Srecko Sostar
    This is partially correct, but not for all who left JW church. In videos from ex-JW i heard some of them complaining how they were not been able to celebrate Christmas or birthdays. I don’t go into the theological justification of their demands, but I don’t think it’s something that should be crucial to leaving or staying in the organization. There are so many other “details, bigger and smaller that should decide someone’s departure. Many things have been discussed at this Forum and, you will agree with me, they go far beyond, outweigh the issue of celebrating birthdays. It is possible that in some people there may be some individual trigger to change the state of feelings about the organization. But that moment when that happens is just a continuation of a process that has been in that individual’s subconscious and consciousness for a long/longer time. It doesn’t happen “overnight”, that decision is not impulsive. I observed the children of one mother in the former congregation. Teenagers. As they grew older and reached adulthood, their attitude toward belonging to the JW changed. The eldest sister left JW immediately after coming of age. The younger sisters soon after one by one also left the organization. I guess, I'm actually sure, that they didn't have problems with purely theological dilemmas or what the leadership of the organization was like, but with personal freedoms and pressures from mothers and elders (they were forbidden to associate with their father who was excluded many years ago and I think it was trigger for their decisions). This example, about issue of (MUST) shunning own dfd father was too much for them. And their reaction was completely natural and normal. WT JWorg and lawyer in video presented showed double face, showed hypocrisy. And want to look good in front of "secular", "worldly" people. They want to hold Image of Organization. And that "detail" is also "trigger" for some JW people to "come out of her" aka organization.
  16. Srecko Sostar
    Mr Tom, the Author of two books, did you watch this short video? Do you read WT publication? If your answer is yes, than please repent for your bad comment. :))
  17. Srecko Sostar
    Certainly. But now I do wonder why Br. Glock said what he said. Is there a feeling that the GB's trust worthiness is under fire and is it gaining some success? Br. Glock can't prevent nor fix damage GB + Helpers and WT Lawyers doing for very long time.
  18. Srecko Sostar
    For your information - the GB closed our meetings BEFORE government regulation. So GB had caution and respect for life and most assuredly prayed to Jehovah for direction. Dear Arauna, you misquoted, used my quote out of context. You didn't QUOTE my FULL SENTENCE. It would be better to quote whole sentence or paragraph. :)) Thanks in advance! In general context, we have to follow governmental direction based on Romans 13 regulation or principle or command if you wish. In critical thinking context, we have to interrogate, to question and to check many things that comes from "higher instance", secular or religious, because of historically proven reasons. Well, to go back on your comment, again. It is out of question, or it is not issue, did GB made good/bad decision about Covid 19, before or after government regulation. After all, GB did, i guess, collected health and medicine information from secular sources aka science (virologists, experts in the field of public health, institutions dealing with the study of infections etc) In this context, GB made decisions not on "spiritual" facts or possibilities revealed in Bible, but based on existing secular knowledge about Covid 19. When medical experts found more about disease, GB will also know more. NOT vice versa. Croatian crisis headquarters made better decisions at first, than many other governments and they made it BEFORE many others. Well, what that have to prove? Who has decided before, to close all public meetings ? GB or Croatian crisis headquarter ? :))
  19. Srecko Sostar
    People can "invoke" whatever they want in "proving" their position on something. A reference to a “higher instance” does not mean that the higher instance approves a “lower instance” on every or all doctrine, instruction, directive and policy. That is what i saying.
  20. Srecko Sostar
    Perhaps br. Glock is "Bible scholar", a person who has studied a subject for a long time and knows a lot about it, an intelligent and well-educated person who knows a particular subject very well. In that context he should be aware of using particular words and their meanings, in/for his talk .
  21. Srecko Sostar
    Then it simply means, people that err with this standard of assumption has not fully understood the GB and the actions of the apostles. Agreeing with former members would not be, good advice or a good observation. Those that do so are asking for perfection of others, when those should start with themselves first. I think that main problem all religion have, and JW too, is in this: People who lead a religion invoke God’s authority for every word they utter in front of people. GB is among the same class. When GB stops claiming that both, correct and false doctrines and instructions came from God, then they may be closer to God and "truth".
  22. Srecko Sostar
    School Principal in my work place also said to all employee stuff, we have to follow governmental direction. And what is the point of your illustration? I can easily, just for you, make connection between "direction of secular authority" and "spiritual guidance" WITHOUT any sort of religious organization and their leaders, in this case GB. Please go to Romans chapter 13, and you will be able to understand what ties exists between God and "secular authority". God is Spirit and he put "servant with sword" to be HIS servant. I think that is some "spiritual" connections in question, that exists between them. God calls secular authorities as His servant. GB said how they are also God's "servant". According to Bible text God have servants all over the Earth. And some are atheists, some are religious, some are agnostics ..., What sort of ties people can have with God, but "spiritual" ? GB are not in some "privileged" position as mere "servants" in comparison to other God's "servants". Because they all are just "servants", and if God want to give his spirit, sorry, guidance, to some other "servants", who are GB to contradict God’s will ??!!
  23. Srecko Sostar
    As i understand some comments from few of you, you say how GB made and making Independent decisions on Covid 19 and directs how JW members will behave in their spiritual activity, no matter what secular authorities say. If world leaders don't have the political will and the public willingness to impose the shutdowns as we did back in March, do you suggest or give idea how JW will stay in "lock-down" ie not have public meetings, conventions, door to door or street service etc? Will GB not join "relaxed measures"? Or do you think how they think that is safer for members to "stay at home"?
  24. Srecko Sostar
    As i understand title of his speech was, "Protect yourself from lies". In JW world, lies are, exists only outside "spiritual borders". Well JW members are safe, they just need not to open TV or surfing web, and all "truths" will stay safe and sound. :)) Again: As described previously in the Newsroom section of jw.org, the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses was monitoring the situation and providing direction to all congregations in harmony with the recommendations from authorities.- https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=covid+19 This means, if world leaders failed in "planetary crisis", than GB failed with them too. :)) Nothing about motives. GB made simple copy paste of information about pandemic from secular sources and with or without some own colors forward instructions. Yes, GB leaders put in question ARC and Australian Government call for cooperation only. Or Courts in US by refusing product documents. Or victims of CSA. Or, own past doctrines they put in question too. Many other things they do not put in question. JW members, they not put in question how trustful GB are, and they not put donation money in question, selling KH is not reason to question ..., So many Sreckos in a single comment from you. Woo factor at work? :))
  25. Srecko Sostar
    As described previously in the Newsroom section of jw.org, the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses was monitoring the situation and providing direction to all congregations in harmony with the recommendations from authorities.- https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=covid+19 Source of knowledge and direction is in "worldly" institutions, wisdom and common sense, and it is funny to put this on "religious and spiritual level" as GB Helper was done by conclusion: .... is just another proof that Jehovah is with the Governing Body." That GB Helper, for example, said: "GB recommended to all brothers and sister; Drink Aloe Vera 10 times a day and you will be cured and will not be ill from Covid 19 because we and HS found that is best for all of us.", .... that would be another proof who is with GB. According to w13 11/15 20, GB instructions have to be "unique" and "may not appear practical from a human standpoint". :)) and that would give "proof" to JW's how JHVH "backing" GB in their decisions. :))) little fun and irony
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