Srecko Sostar

5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

On 6/11/2020 at 11:08 PM, 4Jah2me said:

If I'm living ON THE EARTH that is different to if I'm living OVER THE EARTH. (in heaven)

There is a fault in the logic here.

Yes it is. :))) @4Jah2me is not in position to rule over but to live over something, someone...  like me and many other people. 

I live over a musician, and he's constantly keeping me awake with his practicing. :)))))

5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

The reality however is that a king can rule "over" or "on" a territory without personally being there.

Now I can see logic in WTJWorg GB interpretations about 1914 Kingdom and Spiritual Paradise where JW members living till today ...... All is in their heads because, The understanding of the text is enhanced, not altered.

The understanding was enhanced with progressive clarifications and changed approach to Bible text, according to WT study magazine. Nothing was altered, nothing :)))))

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Exactly! Why do you keep bringing it up? Therefore, it's not the date but your own action. That way Srecko can laugh at commonsense. 😏

If that would make you smiling too.

7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

you would not know what God's Kingdom location is

WTJWorg GB know. :)) They said they are living in Spiritual Paradise now and here. According to this claim people could conclude how Kingdom is on Earth, because Jesus as King is coming in 1914 to visit the Earth. Obviously he stay and spread his Kingdom around the globe with a little help and by means of WT Society.

Perhaps GB source for this knowledge is also in Bible hub? 

Also you said how WTJWorg speak the truth. Well we have Two Witnesses for same claim: You and WTJWorg GB.

7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

YOU think YOU are right.

Because I am, as is with my sources.

God has a Kingdom, he has a King, the King has subjects who will rule with him from the heavenly Kingdom, to those who inhabit the earth. Tell me how is this wrong?

No you are not wrong because of fact how all this you numbered is your FAITH and BELIEVES. This is your version, based on text and based on versions of text. And based on particular interpretations of text and versions that are sourced in you or sourced in other people and organizations.

You can stop this agony with just one word, to say: Yes. :))  

7 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Evading? Understandable, better than deviating.

I am not evading beer, you misunderstand something :)) 

3 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

So now you backed yourself into a corner, what will you do now in this regard?

I will go for a beer :))  Also, suggest you to buy one for yourself too.

20 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Please cite your sources if you deem your claim for Revelations 5:10 to be true in terms of them being wrong.

32 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Oh, by the way, just a passing thought on Rev.5:10.

The scripture appears to be about rulership, not geography. In that case it would appear that epi is appropriately rendered in connection with the extent of rulership, rather than the geographical location of the rulers in question. The option of a contextual understanding of this preposition appears to have been exercised at Rev.9:11 and 11:6, and also by other translators in their rendering of the said Rev.5:10. (Courtesy www.biblehub.com).

Just my "version", of course.

You don't need me to cite any of my sources, because i believe how Outta Here is JW member. And he has his "version" about your asking. In another word that is how he understand official doctrine :))

3 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Oh, by the way, just a passing thought on Rev.5:10.

The scripture appears to be about rulership, not geography. In that case it would appear that epi is appropriately rendered in connection with the extent of rulership, rather than the geographical location of the rulers in question. The option of a contextual understanding of this preposition appears to have been exercised at Rev.9:11 and 11:6, and also by other translators in their rendering of the said Rev.5:10. (Courtesy www.biblehub.com).

Just my "version", of course.

It looks how you are right about existence of several "versions" of doctrines inside JW members body, congregants.

But to use your vocabulary: "Who cares". :))

This testimony of yours defeats completely @Space Merchant "version" of his view on WTJWorg. :))

@Space Merchant if you are not able or not willing to concentrate, canalized your thoughts in  few words and few sentences than i have no need nor motivation to have conversation with You!  

You speaking about my "deviation" but you done nothing to change Your attitude toward people who don't accept your "faith" and stand for your "the truth" and your Bible hub or what ever.  

You are so ready to fight for "the truth", for your view on truth, for your version of truth here and now. Also here and now is right place and time to express not only your praise how WTJWorg teaching is wonderful, your "version" of their doctrines (and your version of own Faith, Organization, Church that you belong too), but to give Critical observation and speak against all, even minor detail that is not good and correct according to your inner sensitivity and intellectual    objectivity, about/in both Institutions. 

If you said how there is not nothing wrong in your Church and in WTJWorg OR just skip to speak up about it, to stay deaf and dumb, as you done every time when somebody ask you this same thing, you will show your true face....once again.

Have a good day :))

3 hours ago, Outta Here said:

What I have realised with many of the critical comments from some on this forum, is that they have rejected their own versions of what they think are the beliefs held by JWs.

:)) Must be, (one of few explanations why and how it is possible that people have "own versions" about same stuff) similar to "1975 issue". Management of WT Company blaming followers for "own version" and "misunderstanding" all those WT publication articles that talking about 1975.

By the way, do you have problem with people's "own version" about this and that? Because WT GB also have "own version" about "spiritual food" they offer to JW members. And GB changing periodically "own version" of that same "truth -version". Do you consider them (GB) better than any other human here or elsewhere? Does GB using Bible hub for their meditation and Bible study? If yes, why they not recommending this web site and put it in weekly meetings program ? :)))

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

From even then to now, 2020, you still haven't learned, therefore that remark of sharpens of which you stated is contradicting.

 

Hello Space! 

I can notice how You and @Arauna thinking differently about "past, history". Arauna don't want to bother herself about WTJWorg history, and not about my history on this forum. But you do save "records" about other people, what is for praise. :)))) 

You are not like JW elders who must destroy all notes and records about past cases they handled while were dealing with people. :))

I put "Jehovah's Witnesses" in Bible hub .....and nothing :))

4 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

ABOVE means totally different to ON.

I am not native English speaker, but this is what i see correct understanding.

56 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

lyrics

Thanks for the observations. Because my English isn’t very good (which is well seen in my grammar as I write comments:) ), it’s even harder for me to follow the lyrics in the songs. And, I didn't even expect "interventions" in the text of the original to happen. ............... But, that's how it is with "musical" and other interpretations :)))

1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

You seem to be cart-before-horse-ing.

No, i wait for others, in this case you, to put first "cart" on the table. 

It seems how exists individuals, JW members too, who put tremendous faith in God and believe how with Him everything is possible. Even to have "spiritual paradise" without organized religion.

But when they been faced with second question, then they feels guilty and fear because answer: "No" would mean they have to live without WTJWorg. :))

I found interesting to present this two view about same issue, about religious truth, or to be said, what is the meaning of Bible text aka - interpretations. Both quotes are originated from persons who are deeply involved in defending religious truth and teachings. They are, i believe, bible scholars of some sort. I don't know what credentials they have.

First quote is made by an individual and is very concise. We may say, clear and simple as it should be, because we will agree how truth have to be clear and simple. But, perhaps it is not always that way :)) 

quote 1: There is no change, there is no misinterpretation. Therefore, there is no error. 

Second quote is made by group of people and is massive. And stands as opposite to first one. 

quote 2: We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified. *

Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.” Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape gradually, God grants an understanding of divine truth progressively, in his due time. (1 Peter 1:10-12) As the Bible foretold, he has accelerated this process during “the time of the end.”—Daniel 12:4.

These adjustments in our understanding should neither surprise nor disturb us. Ancient worshipers of God also had mistaken ideas and expectations and needed to adjust their viewpoint.

I will leave further comments, if any, to the audience of this forum. :)) 

8 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do they actually forget that they have written the Interlinear Translation, or do they forget that people still use it ? 

As @Outta Here give information, WT have various Bible versions,  translations.

But only last edition have to be count as "best Bible" :))) and to be use for spreading "spiritual food" aka truth that leads to eternal life. Yes, he must be right. You can read whatever Bible Translation you like, but confirmation about what is meaning of text need to be made by Watchtower study edition. ;)) 

On 6/7/2020 at 10:13 PM, Outta Here said:

No.

When you said: "No", i would understand than how WT Society and all legal entities are not needed for JW members and people in general to be able get close to God and Jesus.   

That is contrary to WT publication that said how only WTJWorg with GB is able to provide "spiritual food" and how "spiritual paradise" only existing inside this organization.

Obviously, your short and direct answer giving idea how WTJWorg is not necessary for "spiritual paradise", which i can agree. But than why JW's preaching how people need  to Join JW as precondition to be under God's protection that is only inside "spiritual paradise" that exists only under leadership and governing of WTJWorg company?  

11 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Biblehub

Is this internet page approved by GB and WT? Does WT endorse JW's to go on Biblehub or to go only to official JW org sites that have best bible translation and brand new interpretations ? :)))) 

On 6/9/2020 at 4:02 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

On 6/9/2020 at 12:42 AM, Outta Here said:

Check Eph 4:6

God is "over all". 

Human, angels, 144000 are not. Or?

+ Rev 5 10

Upon all OR over all ? what is more correct? @4Jah2me showed how JW have two Bibles with different translation. 

7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The Watchtower GB do not consider themselves above the brethren, they preach and teach alongside the brethren. They understand their place, and glorify God for sending his son to be our savior. This is why, they understand they will be held more accountable if they lead God's sheep astray. They honor that responsibility, they don't run away from it. They will not deny Jesus 3 times just because of internal pressure or outside influence. They are God's servants to the end.

They will not deny Jesus 3 times ...

But they will deny, renounce OWN Theology,  more than 3 times for the same doctrine.

And at the same time they will claim that their theology has always been the theology of Jesus ....each time, at each change. :))

On 6/9/2020 at 4:49 AM, Witness said:

Why not wipe away the individuality and personalities of His priests, not only now as an unrecognizable "nation" presently, but by creating a blasphemous picture of the 144,000 looking exactly the same -  in face, clothing and sex.  Sheesh.  They might as well be some sort of heavenly robot.  

Hybrids. Mixture of angels and humans. 

Perhaps artist want to show Unity and Uniformity. 

I am not sure that i understand explanation, interpretations of some Bible words about this "transformation". Also, if human are created by God to live on Earth, and WT theology said how Catholics or some other religious people not "going" to "heaven" after death because that is false teachings.....why would that be different for some JW class, "anointed"? 

Resurrection is good hope. But to live on Earth. Why would God be in need to have group of people, earthly women and men for living in "heaven" and rule over humankind? And be invisible to their subjects? I would drove some line with Eden and human. God was invisible to Adam and Eve, Abel, Cain .... according to Bible. But they spoke together.  Human heard a Voice.

This is also interesting. If you "see" God you will be dead, but if you "hear" His voice, you will not be dead. ??!! ...

So, according to WT theology; Will they, 144000, speak with humans? Will humans "heard" their voices as Adam, Eve, Abe, Cain did hear God's? Because "voice" is need to be heard for purpose of learning. Human will need to be instructed how to get "perfection" and how to find "true doctrines" without later,  subsequently,  afterwards so called "clarifications". :))

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

then you will fulfill your  Christian duty to bring the absolute truth to the friends here who love your quotes which is supposed to prove a superior insight.  Because after all you have so much inside knowledge!  

Organization is similar to individual, person. Both of them have past. With good and bad moments or periods. It can cause sort of shame and unpleasant feelings if someone tell this about us. But that is part of history, that we like or not like to hear again.

If WTJWorg fights strong against people who supposedly braking "intellectual property and copy laws" by using PRESENT and OLD publications for revealing doctrines and interpretations made by Organization, let it be. 

But, you make mistake when criticize people who doing "Christian duty", and that is, among other things, - to speak what they know and believe is truth.

I love your (and other people) quotes too, but not to level of giving like or upvote. I love them because it helps me to make comparison, testing and to recognize intellectual/spiritual positions, your's or mine.

15 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Check Eph 4:6

God is "over all". 

Human, angels, 144000 are not. Or?