Srecko Sostar
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Posts posted by Srecko Sostar
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10 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
I was basing it on evidence that is still with us, but mostly from past evidence from the time that the "Service Department" was treated as a separate entity from the "Writing Department"
This dualism was visible in articles. I can recall i noticed this two sort of "spiritual food" (was not aware of it then as later), which appeared alternately in publications. Heating - cooling principle. A kind of psychological war within one's own ranks (by coincident or semi-purposely or even purposely ?).
Although at the end of the comment you praise spiritual progress and "valuable core of teachings", I cannot accept that the methodology of achievement, for a few good things for which words of praise could be found, is bordering on partial or sometimes complete manipulation of people who doubt nothing.
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4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Adam and Eve? Is he cool with them?
They are not very popular in the university. I am not even sure that they graduated.
In those time people "graduated" by picking specific sort of fruit from the tree.
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38 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
I would ask all JWs this. Is there a written list of CCJW core teachings, because it seems a phrase that is being 'banded about' here ? ....Such as : No beards. Must wear a tie and jacket.
It seems barely possible that one could have been a JW for decades and later ask such a dopey question. It may be that the entire persona is a facade.
I suppose how doctrine about FDS aka GB and "all belongings" are not part of core teachings ANY MORE. :)))
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8 minutes ago, Witness said:
Knowing the "Master's Belongings" has nothing to do with earthly riches to begin with, shows up the organization as no different from any other organization in the world.
Yes, thanks for put this in focus. If exists Master who have nothing with material possessions and assets, that is Jesus. He was a Man who didn't care about money, real estate, diamonds and gold, position in society etc.
A Man who gave advice: "sell everything and follow me", must be someone who don't have ANY, NOTHING of material possessions in some secular or religious organization today on Earth.
Once more time, once again WT and GB made wrong teaching on Matthew 24:47 by making a mixture of materialist-spiritual interpretation...... for their own benefit.
Jesus is Son of his Father who OWN and POSSES all earthly treasures. And They not need GB to collect and be in charge on things they already have. Neither today (or from 1919, 2013), nor in the some fictive future.
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What is real truth about "2013 new light" presented in WT study magazine, that said how Faithful and Discrete Slave aka Governing Body in Bethel HQ in NY were not appointed "over all Masters belongings in 1919 but will be "during great tribulation"? - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/
I found this video material that reveal some interesting elements about this "new light" from 2013.
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17 minutes ago, Arauna said:
That is why you guys are stuck on the past - to try to dig up dirt. You are like an old nagging woman - emotional and continually accusing her husband over and over again of something he did 60 years ago.
I believe how this "guys stuck on the past" are wary, because they are not sure if they can trust an organization that has made false beliefs, doctrines in the past, and never show regret and apologize to members, become reliable today ?!.
How you can believe they are reliable today, when they changing doctrines and interpretations, instructions on an annual basis ?!
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3 minutes ago, Arauna said:
You are trying to compare slippers with pumpkins.
What connecting this two is: God has nothing against them :))
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Also, think, it is important to know the history of the organization to which someone belongs as an active member, as a person who dedicates his life to the goals of that same organization.
The WT has had several Charters from the beginning (which have changed several times to this day) and in those charters it is written why WT exist and what it wants to achieve.
These charters, from the first one during C.T. Russell in 1884 to the most recent, it seems to me 2003 (brand new, revised, with amendments, restated) are not quite so available if at all, and many JW's are not familiar with them, nor do they know they exist.
The emphasis should be on how history is related to the present and vice versa. Is there any doubt that the past of the organization is being revised? In what, how much and why?
If it is true that God will "pay everyone according to their deeds," then that would mean that our past and present are taken into account, right? -
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1 hour ago, Witness said:
When I joined in 2016, it was an open club. I remember the Librarian told me that everyone was allowed to "have their say". Now that it is closed, maybe that has changed. Maybe I am on the "soon to be removed" list.
In 2017, the same - Open club and JW members had Closed club. But people, JW people too, participate very much in Open club, because it is more interesting :))
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10 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:
Closed club? Anna, what's happening here.
I think it is "closed" for only 489 members. :))
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According to one article in WT magazine, JW members living in "spiritual paradise" already. This sort of paradise is possible because of several reasons. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001162 Reasons are:
1. JW people know what is God's purpose
2. spiritual paradise is an environment that is pleasing to the eyes and soothing to the nerves, allowing one to enjoy peace with one’s fellowman and with God
3. people approaching Jehovah’s Witnesses, seeking help to understand the Bible and to learn about spiritual paradise
4. Jehovah’s Witnesses are active in 235 lands and territories
5. people can found a spiritual paradise in association with Jehovah’s Witnesses and their knowledge about God and love in community
6. people doing God's will
7. people need to associate with a congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses
Question is: If from some, any reason WT Society with all Legal Entities that support, organize and unites JW members by giving them proper knowledge aka "spiritual food" for living in "spiritual paradise", ceases to exist .....will the "spiritual paradise" also disappear?
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If the GB want to show that they are aware of their "own limitations" (like S. Lett's Jesus), then, the JW’s should only have one 10 minute lecture (basically reading the Bible text) per week or month in the assembly and the rest of the time they should sing and laugh.
And only one issue of WT magazine in a year. Preferable would be Awake with articles about animal and nature to praise Creator .:))
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
Intelligence or education is not needed to understand the deep things of God
Intelligence is not needed ? Perhaps education is less important,because someone else can read to uneducated people, BUT you need at least average IQ for understanding world around you and various/specific religious doctrines. :))
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
Since we are Bible students and have a PERSONAL relationship with Jehovah and keep improving our BIBLE knowledge, I fail to see why we need to know the entire history and every detail of the watchtower history.
It’s weird that you think that way. How many times in WTJWorg magazines is it discussed and explained why JWs don’t do this or that. Why some customs are rejected and some are not considered wrong. Eg. why not celebrate a birthday, new year, May 1st etc. Then historical examples from the Bible or "worldly" history are given of what happened during the two birthday celebrations and other events. The magazine then concludes that birthdays have a “pagan origin,” and that this is the main reason why JW’s don’t celebrate birthdays today. What has happened in distant history is becoming a moral principle, a doctrine for the 21st century.
So, to today's JW's it is very important what the history of this or that is. Why is the history of a "mountain-like organization" not important to You, to them? -
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2 hours ago, Arauna said:
However, Noah's generation was 120 years.
I believe how we can make consensus about length of any or some particular generation.
Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me ....... The Lord’s anger burned against Israel and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone.
Here we have Bible confirmation how ONE "generation" is 40 years in length, but interestingly in this 40 years generation period WERE people from 20 years of age and upward. Contrary! Younger (0 year -20 years) people were not a part of, they not CONSTITUTED this particular Generation that have to die in wilderness. Here we have situation how people of all ages lived in the same period of time, but were not part of same "generation".
Here we have one group of people (who had done evil ), of various ages when all this was occurred. But Bible text called all of them who done evil- generation. Not because they somehow "overlapped" in sense of long period of time as TV preacher David Splane explained "Generation of 1914". No, this people in the wilderness, all of them contribute to "evil thing" in one short, particular moment of their life. And their joint activity made them to be ONE GENERATION, that must die in 40 years. In that context we have GENERATION of 40 years.
In Noah's generation example is 3x40 = 120 years that God left to people of that period of time. That doesn't mean how every men and woman in Noah's time lived 120 years and then die in Flood. Bible reports speaking of people who lived hundreds of years as normal life span in those period of time. In Noah example, we don't see separation in terminology: These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. Gen 6 9. Here we have all people, young and old, good and bad to be under same wording - "His Generation".
In this two examples we see how time length of some particular "generation" in some particular event is changeable and not depend of capacity of how long human life span is in that period of time. Also we see how quality and belongings of one group of people sometimes are separate from each other and sometimes are mixed, together.
In this two Bible examples we see how ONLY ONE EVENT, for each period, of them is in focus. First is that the Israelites were afraid to enter the Promised Land. Second is Human that not listen to Noah.
In Jesus prophecy about Last Days of Jerusalem, we see how all was happen and finished in relatively short period of time. If we "count" from From 33 AD to 70 AD (37 years), or even less period of time. Perhaps is more important when events (signs) started, when they primarily were, started happening, and not when Jesus did made prophecy (in 33 AD). Because Jesus said: So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
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32 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:
Most JWs are basic folk with very basic thinking ability. They either are not intelligent enough to think or cannot be bothered to think beyond what they are taught at the KH or conventions.
If you don't mind my different opinion. I would say how basic elements in message that JW's preaching; better new world, perfect life and health, no death, peace and security, Jesus and God etc. are something what almost all people want/wish.
The system of repetition and persuasion of how to achieve all this, goes into our conscious and unconscious deep enough that we don’t feel the need to question anything that have source in new found religion. In fact, we self-censor ourselves and do not allow critical thinking. That is, the Organization has succeeded in instilling in its members the feeling that everything that is happening in terms of doctrine and technical implementation of learning does not even need to be re-examined. Only what comes from outside, the “worldly,” needs our utter caution and suspicion.
Deception imbued with elements of good and even true, creates in us an inability to think differently. Our mind is dulled. The mind is no longer sharp to discern fraud that growing within ourselves and danger of our confidence in the Organization. “Danger comes from outside” and “I am sinful and can't trust myself” - these are thoughts that obscure view about possibility and about very good chance how "the truth" is much else other but not really truthful.
Why we stay so long in this mode and state and sometimes refuse to see obvious? Why we convince ourselves how "this must be the truth" when "truth" is not truth any more but another interpretation?
You and me and many similar to us are not in any intellectual shortcomings, but we were deceived.
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11 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
we did not yield in submission to them,
- obedient and submissive - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1989685
WTJWorg spreads teachings how members must doing exactly this before Elders and GB.
Paul said; NO, you DON'T HAVE TO be OBEDIENT AND SUBMISSIVE to human leaders in "Jerusalem" or in your congregation!
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Now is come to be clear from where S. Lett borrow his words about final part of last days, or last days of last days, or ... :)) it doesn't matter.
It seems how S. Lett reads very old WT publications and than get some ideas for new light, clarification and so on :))
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46 minutes ago, Arauna said:
Staggered or overlapping generations is not absurd at all - it was built in from the start but the GB oversimplified at first. ..... that is all.
This is err premise. Sorry.
What was built from the start (my start was in 1975) WT publication teaches how generation is 70-80 in length and is literally connected with the year 1914 as start point to be able to count when "signs" will culminate in Armageddon.
Because of that JW's are/was put in "corner" with this. "Overlapping" invention is just try how to get out of the corner.
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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:
This verse does not say that ONLY Peter should feed
I made comment on WT article that @4Jah2me put in his comment, and of course on many other WT article that making statements how Jesus gave task of feeding only to 1919 small group of people inside WT.
Also, if we going into searching to whom specific words was addressed by Jesus, about feeding,i found only this specific verse that can be connected with "spiritual food". I must tell, also, how i am not reading Bible as many of you does regular or every day. This is from memory and than go to search where some verse is in the book. Because that, it can be how i missed some other verse which confirm other conclusion.
In verses you offer it is notable how other people, not Jesus, encouraged fellow brothers and elders to be in service of helping/feeding people in congregations. Nothing wrong with that, of course.
What is of concern is stubborn claims made by WT and GB how only few people inside JW Church are delegated/appointed, not by Peter or Paul, nor by Russel and Rutherford, but by JHVH and Jesus themselves, to be FDS Class. And much more - How no other individual, or group of people/elders, no one of Anointed as individual or group is/are allowed to do this feeding.
I agree how you are right in conclusion how "this verse not say that ONLY Peter should feed", and i hope you will agree how Jesus or any Bible verse not say how ONLY governing body in NY HQ should feed, too. :))
Paul is example of individual, very much independent in actions and words. And he was not part of any sort of GB that is promoted today.
@César Chávez put this interesting verse in comment:
Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.” - Act 6
1st century brothers and sisters (anointed or not) had spiritual ability to recognize who among Men are full of Spirit. I suppose how you need Spirit for doing this? Can we say they were "inspired"? At least for this particular moment and particular task?
5 hours ago, JW Insider said:This is a time period when you see a lot of statements in the literature that obedience to Rutherford is the same as obedience to the Lord.
History repeats. WT study magazine and TV Broadcasting doing same thing to JW people today.....with some other methods and words: Trust in Us because Jesus also trust in Us. If Jesus trust in Us, shouldn't you do the same?
Do not forget, Jesus not say that only (Peter) GB will feed people. GB ask people to trust ONLY to them because they claim how ONLY they have spiritual food to share.
Where we are now?
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5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
And Now :- The Watchtower dated (top right corner) March 2020. Study articles May 4- 31 2020
Page 6 paragraph 16. from part way down, reads. (I have paper copy supplied by an elder)
" Jesus has appointed a small group of anointed men to take the lead in organising the work that he wants done today. Jesus refers to this group of men as 'the faithful and discreet slave' and they take seriously their responsibility to feed and protect you spiritually. "
What hogwash ! Complete lies or deliberate deceit.
If i can recall what Jesus said, it would be this:
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him athe third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, byou know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed cmy sheep.
This Bible verse (even in nwt translation too) confirm only one fact: Jesus delegated task, service, obligation about feeding to only one person, Peter.
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Can somebody who has read this book tell us, does Furuli give some thoughts about people who left WTJWorg?
Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"
in Topics
Posted
This sound good for introducing new approach and view about "higher education" issue. WT publications and public lessons now should include advice how "higher education" is recommend only for adult JW members in their 50s. :))