Srecko Sostar
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Posts posted by Srecko Sostar
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2 hours ago, Witness said:
To say, "we are convinced" with no comment made by these men of their anointing experience is deceptive. JWs are to take their word for it, but ignore any "word" from a genuine anointed in the organization.
Malenfant: ".....after all JHVH has blessed them, they fulfill Bible prophecy about FDS. There are certain things that we acquire knowledge about and were convinced of. We see JHVH favor on them, we have no doubt that JHVH blessing is upon their effort to take of the domestic and provide spiritual food all of us. But there's something we don't know. We have nothing to do with the final sealing. That is a personal thing that take place between individual and JHVH god and ..... that's what we're told and that's what we understand ..."
Listen what words he used to prove the subject: after all, they fulfill prophecy, were convinced of, we have no doubt that JHVH is upon their effort, that's what we're told and that's what we understand.
Empty proves for spiritual blind mind to be convinced into deception, again.
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4 hours ago, Witness said:
since the only names one needs to know (according to Malenfant) are those of the GB.
Yes @Witness , you do preciously*, exactly summarized in a few words main message that this JW elder send to JW people.
No one else of "anointed" around the world is/represents nothing in WTJWorg, but only few of them in GB behaves as head of Organization and elevates themselves above all other anointed in the Body. It seems they acting as Head of Body or at least as the Neck (as in joke, man is head of his wife but she is the neck who rotate head
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PS
* precisely!
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On 4/28/2020 at 8:35 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
So, without any duplicity, or being two faced, I agree with the principle for the Governing Body the same as what Jesus said for the scribes and Pharisees, of his day..
(Matthew 23:2, 3) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, . .
As @JW Insider emphasized about reasonableness, i would look at Jesus words and on practicing his words with little caution. Pharisees commanded not to work on Sabbath, for example.
.... Well, Jesus done the opposite and he did not participate in do all the things they tell you.
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On 4/22/2020 at 5:26 AM, Anna said:
In other words we have two classes of generation, an overlapping one and a non overlapping one 🤪
Reminds me a bit of when we got bogged down with types and anti types. I thought we were over that....?
On 4/21/2020 at 12:25 AM, JW Insider said:Although some might try to stretch group 1, we should remember that a person is not considered "anointed" until they are baptized.
It seems how WT Society have only one group of "anointed generation", and that is present GB. In his morning worship talk Mr. Malenfant explained this:
"we don't need to know all names of the anointed on earth today, ....
... in our congregations we see the emblems being passed and we can see individuals partaking in ...
...it would be pointless to try and ascertain who among God's servants will eventually be part of 144000. The final judgement and sealing of the anointed is very private matter between JHVH and individual anointed ones......
.. and i might also add at this point. Even though we don't know about that personal relationship that comes about, we don't experience it ourselves, but we are convinced, for example, that the members of the GB have the heavenly calling."
Mr Malenfant is person who can control his curiosity about things no one knows, not even he, but it seems how he knows all about that personal relationship and very private matter that supposedly exist between GB members and JHVH.
:))) and he try to manipulate audience with this "confidential information".
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
Elijah thought that he was the only worshiper of jehovah left in Israel..... and felt depressed.
It is possible, and not only very possible, but Elijah (Jonah, Jeremiah and Job too) asking god for death, because of depressed state of mind (Samson, Saul, Saul's arms bearer and Ahitofel succeeded in suicide wish.
Even people, whose we do not perhaps consider as "mentally ill, diseased" or "spiritually weak" as faithful god's servants, showed exactly that, mental illness. Wishing to be dead is not what "normal" people ask for.
What situations in life can bring that even "normal" and faithful religious individual (JW's or any other believer) come to "mental imbalance"? One of reason is/can be Flip-Flop with religious doctrines inside WTJWorg, for sure.
2 hours ago, Arauna said:You do not understand the governmental system.
After 40 years in WTJWorg it is not of surprise that i am just one of many (JW) ex-JW who was thought by WT Educational System to not going into the wisdom of these ("worldly") world and avoid anything that is opposite of Bible teachings. Bear in mind that i had been connected with JW church (as many other JW's) through my parents from earliest childhood. According to that, i stayed ignorant about many things, not just about governmental system :))))
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2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
But what must be remembered is that we are all imperfect, so none of us are mentally well balanced.
3 hours ago, JW Insider said:The issue of mental health, unfortunately, is still touchy.
Mental illnesses are also called mental disorders. They are extremely common in the population. Australia and US 1 of 5 live with mental illness, globally 1 of 10.
https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/mental-illness
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.shtml
https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
List of disorders is long. https://www.verywellmind.com/a-list-of-psychological-disorders-2794776
There are nearly 300 mental disorders listed in the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). This is a handbook used by health professionals to help identify and diagnose mental illness. - https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/types-of-mental-illness
13 hours ago, JW Insider said:I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses.
1) Does "free will", as gift from god or as our imagined concept, contribute to this problem, cause it? Always present problem of what we want and wish on one side and what we may, must and should on another.
2) Is Gospel sort of magnet for "disturbed and imbalanced" people, if we have in mind who, what sort of people Jesus called and expected to follow Him (people who are rejected from society, who "suffered" )?
3) Does, whether JW's who left WTJWorg are good material to be more imbalanced and have mental issues? Or Organization as complete/ finalized system created individuals who would/will be "lost" without Organization?
......etc.
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7 hours ago, Arauna said:11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
MY point is there is no one on Earth that has the power to fire the Governing Body
As individuals they are accountable not as a group.
Well, JTR is right in his conclusion for a very long time :))
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6 hours ago, Arauna said:
I leave Witness and her two disciples to form an echo-chamber for each other. Pat each other on the back.
You have fine sense for humor. Our only goal here is to rise numbers of Member's Total Reputation, and best way for that, according to Forum, is to up-vote or like someone's comment. :))))
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2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
The Governing Body say that they are Anointed, and have only recently admitted to not being inspired by God. If they are of the Anointed then i would presume their sins are sins against the Spirit which may not be forgivable. They are saying that they are the 'faithful and discreet slave', but they act more like the evil slave that beats their fellow slaves. They misuse scripture and make up rules to put pressure on the congregation.
You made here excellently important point. Claims in WT publications said how Jesus and JHVH made examination and had chosen Them in 1919. WT members in those time, and members today have only such claims in publications at which they can put their trust.
If Jesus and JHVH were involved than holy spirit was also involved in this appointed of anointed in WT Society. By all what is visible in Bible records we can conclude how people who claiming their appointed was done by those 3 are in dangerous position if holy spirit was not involved and if it is involved in process of appointing then or any time later.
If holy spirit had nothing with their appointing than GB and all FDS inside WT Society speaking lies or if they are self deceived that makes them false teachers.
If holy spirit did had something with past appointing of people in 1919, that not automatically making all who came later (after 1919) in WT Society to be also "appointed" and "chosen" by holy spirit. Because, it is well known how looked past hierarchic and how looks today this hierarchy in management of Organization.
We see how elders are appointed, if they fulfilling some obligated recommendations according to some Bible verses. In such cases humans are those who making observation and recommendation and put individual on position. Holy spirit is not involved in that process, but elders in particular area/congregation.
People who take symbols considers themselves as "anointed". Here we have another, different situation. People around this individuals are able to make conclusion about them primary on visible fact how they eat bread and drink red wine. But that also not making some individual to be really "anointed".
Well, if GB siting on "Moses chair", because they participate in symbols, that not automatically makes them to be appointed by holy spirit, but can make them guilty before holy spirit.
My business is not to remove them from "chair", but to not believe in every spirit who speaking "amazing things".
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4 hours ago, Arauna said:
You gave a quick soundbyte without thinking it through. Moses made mistakes and was punished - not condemned to gehenna. He will get his ressurrection. Same with today's slave, they make mistakes but will not be condemned to second death.
If Moses made only that one famous mistake, i would expect from God to forgive him, and not in the future time, after/with Resurrection, but in the very moment in the past. Perhaps God thought how Moses need extra lesson.
It is interesting how You made conclusion, about GB, how they making similar mistakes as Moses, but not deserve immediate punishment as in his case. Does this mean how GB never was and never will make such sort of "mistake" and will enter into Promised Land despite those "mistakes"?
What makes GB's and Moses's mistakes to be so different and not calls for same sort of treatment, not calls for using same Principles ??
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3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Will they read a letter like that at Bethel? Dunno, but I never would. I might read one or two, but I gather that they receive a steady stream of these from ones who indicate from their very first words that they are unhinged.
Perhaps same treatment and attitude was used by Kremlin about JW letters ?
... I gather that they receive a steady stream of these from ones who indicate from their very first words that they are unhinged.
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1 21
What if Jan Kosonen's "foolishness" is wisdom of God?
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9 hours ago, Arauna said:
Then why are you doubting the scripture (Matthew 19) which says that divorce is only allowed on account of adultery? If couples may not remarry after separation (without adultery) you do not accept this?. This is in line with scripture...
"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” - Mat 19:9
"But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Mat 5:28
8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:JW Org, definition :-
Sexual immorality
From the Greek por·neiʹa, a general term for all unlawful sexual intercourse. It includes adultery, prostitution, sexual relations between unmarried individuals, homosexuality, and bestiality. It is used figuratively in Revelation with regard to a religious prostitute called “Babylon the Great” to describe her consorting with the rulers of this world for power and material gain. (Rev 14:8; 17:2; 18:3; Mt 5:32; Ac 15:29; Ga 5:19)—See PROSTITUTE.
@AraunaIt just uses the word porneia.... and what porneia includes ?
Now, we have a little problem. WTJWorg forget to put meaning of what adultery is from Mat 5.28 definition, "looks at woman with lust" .... is already adultery. Or we can expand application on each and every, on woman who looks on man, or on one homosexual/lesbian who looks on other heterosexual person or on another homosexual/lesbian person with lust.
Well, WTJworg definition of "por.nei'a" is not perfect, it is with a significant disadvantage. "Unlawful sexual intercourse" or por.nei'a, according to Jesus, is "looks with lust". Taken from this, husband and wife just need to see, to prove to self, how some of them has/had that "looks with lust" and is free to divorce and to remarry. :))
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36 minutes ago, Isabella said:
How did the liberating country become an oppressor?
I am not historian neither someone who read lot of history book. I am only aware of fact how all past time world's powers and few modern countries been or are sort of liberators for one people and oppressors for other people, for other countries.
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
The new philosophy teaches that the bible is patriarchal and oppressive...... you seemed to have gulped it down in spoonfuls.
Old Testament (Jew Law) promote few sorts of slavery, males (men) as owners of females (women) wars for land, superiority of one nation (ethnic and religious belonging, common among all nations until today). As any other nation old Jew nation have had good and bad things to show us.
Their patriarchal system was customary for those time. Even Jesus, as i used Bible verse before, said - Jesus said: “Whoever divorces his wife...". Here is notable to see how man is in position to decide about divorce of his wife. Wife is not in position to divorce her husband. Law established this order. Wife is in possession of her husband, and not conversely.
Well yes, we have old and new philosophy. :)) Perhaps all people are equal before God. But women are not equal before/with men :)))
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
Do you accept that Jesus was a representative of Jehovah or not, and do you accept the Gospels as true or not....... that is the question.
This is just one of few questions, and not rightly addressed to/for me, but for You too. Issue of "acceptance" and "beliefs" in/about religious matters, here, is in focus, of course. Individual inner sense, feeling about past events and records about such events is question or decision for individual to make. Something about issues we put in focus, is not reasonable to put as black and white format, and to say how not accepting your's beliefs is wrong.
If i would say how i am fully accept Jesus and Gospel, that doesn't mean how in the same time i have to accept WTJWorg and GB doctrines, because of their claim how only they "have the truth" about Jesus and Gospel. :))
..... and exactly that is the question you have to deal with.
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2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at
What ever would be object/subject of our looking .... we are able to make that particular look to be sin of various gradation and intensity . Well, as imperfect or perfect human we shall be involved in particular situation and be in deep .....
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9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:10 hours ago, JW Insider said:
Scripturally, she could get out. Separation is always possible. But she was not free to remarry. So this often became a matter of not being able to get out of a marriage, economically.
You strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel
Jesus said: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication [porneia, gross sexual immorality], and marries another commits adultery.” (Matt. 19:9) - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1980570
One of problem here in verse is patriarchal look on world. Men are first and above women and above anything else. I don't know did Jesus really told this or not. If He is, i don't know why He said it this way and what sort of implications and complications would be if two married people make agreement and each go own way to form new family or new marriage with or without children. Because if two stay in problematic marriage there is also implications and complications.... for the rest of their life.
Jesus entering completely new view on life and religion. I would expect from Him to understand all sort of problems and deviations and Bethel's PilowGate Instructions and examples in which human directives adding to world's injustice and tragedy ....inside "His" church. I guess, male people masturbated, was homosexuals and practice sodomy, in His time too, so how come to that, that He didn't mentioned nothing about such situations, that GB Helpers needed to add appendix and upgrade Master's teaching?
Jesus was aware, i guess, how women in His time was dependable on men's world, in many aspects including financial dependence. But, whether He would heal on Saturday or not? Would Jesus give advice and recommendation to sister in congregation how she should stay in marriage with sodomite husband or just separate and be alone and miserable for rest of her life?? Or would He encourage her to pray more and preach more and be regular on every meeting and all problem will gone?? Would Solomon say; bring me a sword and i will cut it into two peaces, a piece for each one of you?
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5 hours ago, Arauna said:
As I said before - you have imperfect ideas about authority.
... i agree completely :)) ... my ideas are imperfect !
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
If there ever was an independent thinker who likes to explore new ideas, I am one of them.
1 hour ago, Arauna said:BUT - I do not teach bible students my own ideas and also not in the congregation.
1 hour ago, Arauna said:I will chat with others about it but not openly advocate my own teachings.
1 hour ago, Arauna said:The reason being that if you really have christ in your heart you will not cause divisions in the congregation over non-essential things.
Humans, not only You, but every of us, many times contradicting to themselves.
If you want to be submissive to your leaders, than there is no place for "exploring new ideas", because you have to wait for new ideas coming from GB and Helpers.
What you teach is not your ideas, but GB ideas.
If you "chat" about "improper ideas" with others you are walking "around the edge", according to JW publications.
"Causing division" is something normal according to Jesus, because he told how His teaching will cause family members to be apart, to renounce and to hate, according to Matt 10 and Luke 14.
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4 hours ago, Arauna said:
I have given bibles to people with a nice bible verse and my name...... so they can remember who gave it to them and the occasion.
It seems that any normal activity which normal people do, is singled out by you to become a kind of "evil" deed. I call you out for your accusing tone..... and for constantly appointing yourself as judge. It seems you have never made a mistake in your life and afterward thought- I should not have done that.
A friend gave me my bible because I left behind some books in USA. You say it is somehow wrong of her to have put her name and date in it?
I suppose how private activity of giving gifts is "normal", with or without signature.
GB members representing Private Company, an Organization with millions of members. But most of all they said how they representing and mediating between JHVH, Jesus and JW members. In this aspect, all their activity is not just "normal activity", because they working on behalf of WTJWorg, and all their decisions and behavior, private and public, have to be looked through another glasses.
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4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
That is the moral of the post that you stated more succinctly than I. In a list of “the religions of the world,” we are not on it.
If you were to ask Bethel to describe their faith, very quickly would come up that statement that true Christians “are no part of the world.”
Make of it what you will. I don’t make anything of it. I just note it.
Bethel is sort of building and not place where faith lives. Behtel workers who answer as you had said, have more correct faith than some GB members who before many years (decades) put their signatures on Bibles as gift to some public officials. This "custom" is "normal" for those who are "part of the world", what ever that have or should mean in this or any other context. :))
6 hours ago, JW Insider said:TTH already mentioned that. I think you were supposed to read the part that had a line through the words, too. :))
Perhaps TTH not expecting from me to read his entire column :)))
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46 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:
I visited religionnews.com and found that my religion does not exist. Jehovah’s Witnesses are nowhere listed in their tree of faiths. Everyone else is. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not. Can it be?
Why you are upset? WTJWorg preaching that you are not part of this world. If you are not par of it, why would you be part of these list? :))
I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life
in Topics
Posted
Thanks for respond.
I can't take this explanation to be useful in defending Malenfant reasoning. After he told how no one in congregations knows who of anointed really received heavenly calling (congregants can only assume, guess and speculate, with visual observation, with the help of literal sight, how individuals who partaking symbols possibly have heavenly calling, as he explained) he went beyond own reasoning and conclusion and presentation about issue, and made second guess, thesis about same subject.
In his next demonstration about same class, 144000 kings and priests who are all equal in this position before god, he put his personal (or small group) opinion above general, official doctrine presented few seconds before. It is known how WTJWorg published how some anointed are emotionally and mentally imbalanced, ill and partaking in symbols. And by that concluding how god will not choose such individual. But Malenfant stated how this relationship is of personal relationship and very private matter. Well, who we are to interfere if god want few "crazy" people to go to heaven??!!
On other hand, when you said:... and that might be a little difficult if for example someone who has obvious mental problems claims to be anointed. However, it should be a lot easier if that person is of sound mind.
If we are able to detect who is with mental problems and who have sound mind, it can be useful. But, what sort of mind (person) would/will devil use more for his purpose to deceive humankind with false doctrines? "Sound mind" or "mentally and emotionally disturbed mind"??
I am pretty sure in your answer :))