Srecko Sostar

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

No - the principles in the old testament stand till today. 

Please, explain and show us WHAT Principle in OT supporting slavery, for example. And how that Basic Principle for issue of Slavery, can and may be in use for people today?? Does this Particular Principle (for slavery) in OT is in power nowadays, does it "stand till today" ??

Because Bible Principles are eternal, people say !!??

This character is self-righteous. This way of saying how someone else's accident, illness and death need to exist in order to feed his believes and faith, to feel "right" about religious interpretations he offers as a leader of JW church.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

Jealousy or malicousness comes in many forms.

True.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

Abraham was blessed ..... and slaves were part of the system...... it seems most of the men in Abraham's household assisted Abraham to fight against 5 kings on an expedition to  Damascus to save Lot from them when he and his family were abducted (possibly to be slaves).

Abraham was blessed, not necessary because of "God's blessings",but because of some other circumstances. First he was born and raised in reach family in Ur of the Chaldea. There lived people who worshiped other god, not JHVH. And it seems how their false god also "blessed" people in that city and area. Abraham wealthy originated from this sort of "blessings". 

Also bear in mind how Abraham support slavery of people around him, but not willing to accept slavery of his family members when "enemies" try to earn money and wealthy in this common trade and custom that was part of system of both societies, theirs and Abraham's.

Because of that i don't want to put Abraham or any other human, including me too, in this or any other "elitist" classification.  Religious, political, national, social ... etc. elitism is wrong idea. This sort of ideology always ended in hate and suffer for all. 

About S. Lett. In JWbroadcasting i heard what he said, comment about corona virus. And how he interpret what corona virus is in connection to Bible prophecies and interpretations about "last days". He talking about "final part of final part of last days". He shows Faith. And Abraham showed Faith. Does Faith of this two is the same Faith??     

21 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have several friends who make money by building and investing in property. It definitely beats the stock exchange - as long as one does not overpay for the property and the location is good.

My best friend supported her family with construction work. Yes, a woman with her own company and she did preaching when she could.

My husband thankfully had his heart attack in Sweden otherwise all our savings would have been wiped out  in USA.  He was only 61 years old.   

Nine days hospitalization five years back in Florida for a bout if pneumonia cost a friend  almost 70,000 dollars. She was only 45 years old...... and that is without the Bill's for the doctors.  So one bit of sickness can wipe out the profit on a property overnight.

I do not think it is wrong to save in this way for some health event...... I did it myself.  Nothing wrong with being prudent.  Young people who have no hospital bills to pay do not realize how expensive it is. Cancer treatment is quite sketchy if one does not have good health insurance and Medicare does not guarantee the best treatment. 

A holiday property next to the sea is also not a sin - although you really try hard to make it look this way.  

If I decide to leave a property in my will to the organization it is my business and if I do some prudent business on the side I am fulfilling proverbs 31... by being a smart wife.... whether I am JW or not.

Yes, if all my thinking is consumed by a "love " of money or the accumulation of wealth ..... then it would be a sin. But it is not wrong to earn money by your personal endeavours while serving God. Abraham obeyed God and showed exceptional  faith and God blessed him materially.  So do a little finger pointing in Abraham's and Jacob's direction!

I personally think that showing jealousy of another's success is an even bigger sin than making money by prudent and honest endeavours. Also the petty research to try and malign another persons reputation is also a sin. 

What did all this research and wasted time  prove?  Not much......it only shone a light on the intent of the presenter.

Many of what you said is in place. Western capitalism in US is different than in Europe. And many of us we who live in Europe are blessed by been born and live here. 

How people making money for living is interesting to discuss. I think how, generally said, the bigger money that some individual making can also can be connected with more people who have less  for living. I am going to idealistic sphere, of course, but we can agree how people not need necessary to drive Mercedes, when also exists cheaper cars to buy. Yes, some people can afford to have "holiday property next to sea or mountain". But, if you or any other JW and GB "preaching" how spiritual "things" are what really matters ...than what is a point to have another house, and invest more money to have it, to keep it??? You need to earn more  money to buy and to hold second house. In the same time some other people can't afford even basic things for life. System is wrong, we can agree. But we making system to live, and we make decision to have holiday property and with that contribute to injustice, generally. 

I guess,Abraham and Jacob working hard, but in the same time support slavery and material imbalance of society. Is that "God's blessings"? or just old world system?? :))

What S. Lett supporting? By words and by silence about this and that aspects about material things in own family.

25 minutes ago, Anna said:

but recently I noticed THIS club, that used to be OPEN, has now also become closed.

... little confusing for me too.

This belong to next level of Arts@Culture Club :)))

from JWorg: 

UPDATE | Latest Information Regarding the Coronavirus Outbreak

The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has provided direction to all branches regarding our spiritual activities during the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic. On Thursday, March 12, 2020, the Governing Body directed the United States branch to cancel all large spiritual events until May 1, 2020. This direction was shared with all branches so that they can make wise decisions about our activities in harmony with local circumstances. We are fully cooperating with health officials in all nations in an effort to contain the spread of the virus. We recognize that this pandemic is yet another evidence that we are living deep in the last days.—Luke 21:7-13; Revelation 6:8

...we are living deep in the last days

What does this have to mean?? :))

@Joe Derrick  Tu sei un uomo .... oppuro una donna?

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I think that the @admin will soon give up on trying to create topics that are supposed to be religiously neutral. The most active participants here (including me) will keep trying to make every topic about Witnesses ("CCJW").

I try to participate with music in Arts and Culture club. But people are very "neutral". No comments or reaction :)))))

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Our KH was going to stay open for the smaller non-English congregations, but then they were cancelled, too. But most of the congregation (maybe all?) had the ability to tie in to sound at least. Two brothers handled the talk and WT study, which was broadcast from the KH. Singing sounded like about 5 people, including one elder's wife and two daughters. Must have been a strange experience at the Hall.

My wife and mother in law stay home tonight. Obviously meeting is canceled, but i think they are listen on tablet or by similar way, now, in her mother apartment.

There is no kindergarten, schools and university from tomorrow (Monday). I expect complete quarantine very soon.  

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

My wife, active JW, does not go to meeting today. She says meetings are canceled due to the Corona virus.

Very interesting.

I found ironic this situation about canceling JW meetings. First have to say it is good measure because of health. But on other hand all this drill from platform how people must be on every meeting, obey God with assembling together. If you don't come you can missed to  receive important life saving information, even if you don't feel alright - physically or spiritually. meetings and preaching service can cure you :))

Well, Bible gave command to not miss meetings, but elders and secular people say, you have to miss :))) Must be satan who is behind all this  :))) 

4 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

The same knowledge carried by the CCJW.

I think this is funny :))

It is interesting, this "stuff", the truth. I think, truth can't make us free or miserable. The truth is "just" reality, nothing more. Our "understanding" about what truth "is" or what truth "is not", can make us feel in this or that way. When we come to some sort of "revelation" about our new position in some circumstances, that is what changes our feelings. I said feelings, as first "wall" of our self made image about own position in life and in the world, in a particular society or a group, family. 

As in words above. Terms "free" and "miserable" are mainly, firstly connected with human feelings, not with mind, brain. Our mind often makes artificial sort of truth aka lie or deceived, false truth. Our awaking from that state generates, produces liberation from mental or spiritual slavery and as one of steps in that process can be sort of misery. It depends of what is about.

Also, it is about what issue is in question. Is it about some personal, intimate thing, some religious questions etc. Every of those specific items making different levels of "suffer".  

According to some quotes i find on public news, in Croatia (cca 4 000 000 population) number of death because of flu and complication flu made, is 300-500 per year.

And as you very well noticed, life go on despite this numbers. 

5 hours ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

Free speech is NOT the same as hate speech. What is hate speech.

If WTJWorg use all sort of "witnessing" to explain and assure humankind how..................................................................  all people who will not join Organization to worship God in JW's way of religious devotion ............... will be destroyed in Armageddon ...................

in what sort of speech we can put such words?

Do we need WT lawyers to explain us to whom belong photos and articles and intellectual property that generate this sort of speech ?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I'm curious how you commented on it. 🙂

That was so long ago and i was so young. I am sure, it was very average.  :))

47 minutes ago, Witness said:

Isa 5

This verses from Isaiah chapter 5 was mine first public talk (reading Bible with a comment) in front congregation in the late 1970s :))

32 minutes ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

Wow! The jokes on you, now that you are lying through your teeth. Just like "witness" lied about the GB living a rich life. You people need to start speaking in a normal tone and stop fabricating things just to post.

from 3:15 G.Jackson said how WTJWorg is driven BY FAITH (his literal words are: "faith driven organization"). This is interesting, because publication speaking about "spirit guided (driven) organization". Here we see some specific and very new moment in GB Vocabulary, about what power and impetus is behind this Organization. 

Now, about my previous quote about G. Jackson testimony. Just continue to listen, and please, have concentration.

10 hours ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

What you are inciting is spiritual disobedience, which is clearly against bible principle.

Haha, it seems how you forget G. Jackson explanation before ARC, when he said how "spiritual disobedience" have to be normal and wished reaction of/for every mature JW member who, after testing GB instructions and doctrine, decide to NOT obey JW shepherds aka leaders.

10 hours ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

It would be irresponsible of its spiritual leaders to disobey Gods commands just because of internal strife from its members.

10 hours ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

Any true Christian will obey the will of God.

Well, GB member openly and clearly promote "spiritual disobedience" inside JW Church. 

Question is: Whether the "will of God" (in Romans 13 context) is revealed through GB or through secular government ??? 

52 minutes ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

What part of Romans 13 don't you understand? Are you suggesting it was an Apostle to make that claim, and not Christ?

Mr Leander,

If GB consider how particular secular law is against Bible principles then they will not obey such secular law.

If GB consider how particular secular law is not opposite to Bible principles then they will obey such secular law.

What part of Romans 13 GB don't understand? Or do they interpret it under own preference? And how issue of obeying secular law depends on individual or group understanding of subject inside particular time frame and circumstances? 

:))

12 minutes ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

In this forum that supports ex-witnesses and goes after those that defend the truth, its obvious you can say whatever you want without consequences.

If you read the USA law correctly, as I stated, you can use one or two sentences under "fair use" to give out your opinion regardless on how distorted that opinion is. However, here, you have people "blocking" a rebuttal response.

Thus, nullifying any fair use standard. That is not your fault, but instead directed to the owners. Why? Because they decided to "hate" someone that challenges the morals, integrity and distortion of individuals calling themselves a witness? In the above posting, Reddit does the same thing. Then you have people here posting paragraphs upon paragraphs of copyright material instead of just a line or two, instead of just posting, the information can be found in the Watchtower 2013 article page so forth and so on. That is what people do with books. Citations, look it up! Anything before 1923 can be cited at length. However, there are still some provisions that companies can use to make a case. To be safe, I would stick with anything before 1921 is fair game.

Perhaps, massive text is need for sake of CONTEXT :))))) 

35 minutes ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

Once again, the Watchtower is playing by the governing rules of man. Whatever the government deems as copyright material regardless if its freely distributed continues to be copyright material. Educate yourself on the laws of the land instead of trying to explain, you're in agreement with your fellow ex-witnesses.

Jesus also said, obey "those" in authority, Romans 13 which secular government is part of.

Did Jesus said anyone in  WTJWorg Company to use exactly this secular trade right ??? :))

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Considering the fact that all Jehovah's Witnesses materials are "free" to the end user, the correct logic of your statement is inescapable.

EVERYTHING we say ... in print, video, and from the platform ..... we SHOULD want repeated as much as possible, by ANYBODY who will "spread the good news".

Naturally! WTJWorg using Bible verse how all "spiritual food" (not only Bible text), ALL what this Company published, released in any format) is FREE OF CHARGE for humankind. 

WT lawyers purposely and with bad motives working against, exactly the same, Bible Principles that WTJWorg using to PROMOTE own Agenda and defend own standpoint.

And, yes, you accented second thing without fail. WTJWorg expects that members and even those who are not members, Repeating as much frequently is possible this diapason of "spiritual food" around the globe. Free of charge. Well, about what sort of "intellectual property and publishing rights", in fact, we speaking about ???? :)))

Because, GB members assure people how all this "spiritual food in proper time" is "food from above, from Jesus and God and NOT Theirs :))

And we all know, Bible never said how human need permission in using Jesus' and God' "intellectual property and publishing rights" :)))

9 hours ago, Leander H. McNelly said:

Since when has secular law considered bible principles?

For example, God's commands such: "Do not ...do this or that" are part of, i think, all and every secular law from past until today. Well, in fundamental things secular laws lean on God's law and principles in that law. :))

If i say on this Forum that you talking nonsense, but you not allow me to use your quotes and topics you published in public, that means HERE, (articles and books in other places if you published, too)  where you posted your nonsense in printing or video and voice form, but you say how i break your "intellectual property and rights", than it is really NONSENSE. :)))