Srecko Sostar

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If there has been kickback on manipulation and ‘control’ charges, and if there has been kickback on ‘flip-flopping’ charges, then I would like to see kickback on charges that Witnesses ‘cover up’ child sexual abuse. A good place to start is by pointing out that leaving reporting up to the involved parties is not the same as ‘covering up.’

You are right in conclusion how "involved parties" are those who may decide.

WT elders, when came to position to hear about something  comes to be also "involved parties" because they have information. Even more, they alone examining such information and classified them into "truth" or "lies". Well, if this serious men, elders, have such crucial knowledge about crime act, what making them to be without responsibility toward - truth, justice, involved parties and victim first?

Do we have to mention advice's made by many of this same elders, not to go to "worldly courts" because of god's name and organization honor?

Perhaps "public" is all those people who don't know nothing or not know enough about CSA and Court cases in JWorg? Then will have at least two class: 1) JW people Public and 2) Worldly people Public. Which of this two groups will be more devastated after WT "kickback"? Or will these WT kickback be presented in two envelops, one for worldly public and one for JW public?

Geoffrey Jackson in his talk comparing GB with "watch dog who barking for no reason in a middle of the night" in 3:04 of this video. He send message how watch dog and FDS have similar "enthusiasm". :))

It is funny, but also very concerning if you are member of organization under such religious Leaders.

10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

“You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a ³⁹  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b ⁴⁰  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.

Yes, this verses are somehow in opposition to Peter's words about, obey god more than men. But you made good choose to show César Chávez how GB brake this Jesus' commands. Giving information to secular authorities they ask for, about CSA inside JWorg is not something that would make god to look bad or dishonor His Name, but and only make WT Society, JWorg  and GB leaders to look as any other human organization. That is something what make them scary.

Because it would bring shame to Them not to Him !!

I guess how God can handle The Truth, all sort of Truths. But human can't !! The Truth, in cases like this when it have role of revealing bad things, has only one outcome - to destroy self made image. Until you don't get to that point, people will continue with same manner (bad manner) of behavior.

Well, Revealing The Truth is braking point, to take the blame and make change for better .....or to stay living in denying mode (fantasy world) continue with cognitive dissonance and choose "explanations" that will support The Lie.  

11 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Like I said, you live in a fantasy world.

:)) I am not the only one :)) JW members live in own sort of fantasy too. 

49 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

The complexity would be, does your government show you every paper trail just because you think you're entitled to it.

Secular government is in position to give report to their citizens, about what they doing, who voted for this or that government. If people are not satisfied after get to know what politicians/leaders doing, many governments will be replaced with new "governing body", by voters.

WT Society Leaders are not placed in their position by members, and members can't change policy and direction of Corporation. But even ordinary members today can be in position to collect information about organization he/she belong to. And because members can't change "governing body" rulers, by voting, he/she can vote for him/her self and leave organization because of many sorts of corruption inside WT Society.  

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

That's right. Do you allow anyone to see your daily paper trail? At some point you opposers need to start thinking. Therefore, for the most part, you just submitted what I posted, thanks! However, I don't see ROOK calling you a lunatic. You would think he should know when to take the correct meds.

In cases when CSA is in question, and we are here under this topic, clear mind and responsible people will cooperate with secular authorities in contributing to prevent, to stop or to punish this sort of crime. We are not  speaking about  normal "daily paper trail". It is about crime trail !! 

Who is that "anyone"? Members are that "no one (nobody)". Their status not giving them any chance to see "daily paper trails" of WT. And in general JW people are not interested for that. Also, "normal daily business" is not something that people in general have to know about.

They (members) are allowed to give (donate) money but are not entitled to know when and why and how much money is used to pay when WT lawyers fight against CSA victims ??!! Public interest for JW members would be to know this sort of "daily paper trails" about how WT operate in this issues. In this WT failed and they are hiding this as many other does. 

WT Society is a PRIVATE Corporation. The business of this company produces documentation of various content. They are about finances, investments, business cooperation and correspondence inside and outside the company, human resources, employee dispute resolution documents, information on the number and status of members .... and many more.
Each state has legal provisions on how much and what kind of documents an institution should keep and how long it must be kept. It is quite certain that the WT Society owns and collects many other documents too, based on its choice and need.
The governing structures of the company decide which documents and what information to make public. We have to expect how many things will stay "hidden" from members eyes or secular people sight, even from secular authorities insight in Court cases. 

WT Society has NO INTEREST to inform own members about Court cases involving CSA and similar. They have NO INTEREST to display PDF or other format of Court documents for OPENLY reading inside JWorg and congregations. They have NO OBLIGATION  (EXCEPT MORAL AND ETHICAL OBLIGATION) to give members full information what is going on about some issue. 

For example, issue of: "blue envelops" or "special blue envelops", "confidential file","sealed confidential envelopes", "Do Not Destroy", "notes in secure place", Confidential Records (sealed envelopes) ....  

20. If the authorities request confidential congregation records or ask that elders give testimony regarding confidential congregation matters, the elders should promptly telephone the Legal Department - page 128

1. It is recommended that elders check their jw.org e-mail inbox at least once each week. Confidential information should not be sent using outside e-mail providers. Use of jw.org e-mail is governed by the "Terms of Use" policy available on jw.org. - page 193

21. Judicial Files and Other Confidential Reports: After a judicial committee, an appeal committee, a committee handling a request for disassociation, a reinstatement committee, or one or two elders handling a matter of wrongdoing have met with an individual, a brief summary of the proceedings is prepared and signed by the elders involved. The summary should be prepared regardless of the outcome of the meeting, for example, if the case was dismissed because of lack of evidence. (See 12:41-42.) The summary should include only pertinent facts and the final determination of the person's standing in the congregation; it should not contain personal opinions. Any personal notes should be destroyed. No judicial information should be posted on Congregation's Publisher Records (S-21). 

22. If the matter involves a disfellowshipping, disassociation, or reinstatement, the elders handling the case should ensure that only the following documents are placed in a sealed envelope: 
(1) Brief summary of the proceedings. 
(2) Notification of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation (S-77) form. 
(3) Congregation's Publisher Records if not reinstated. 
(4) Any correspondence to or from the branch office regarding the wrongdoer. 
(5) Any letters requesting reinstatement. 
(6) Any letter of disassociation. 

23. If the matter involves judicial reproof or another matter involving wrongdoing handled by one or two elders, the elders involved should ensure that the sealed envelope contains only the brief 
CHAPTER 22 "SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD" 
CORRESPONDENCE AND RECORDS 
summary and any correspondence to or from the branch office regarding the wrongdoer. 
24. The following information should be written on the front of the sealed envelope: 
(1) Name of the individual. 
(2) Action taken by the congregation, if any, and the date of such. 
(3) Any judicial restrictions imposed and the date the restrictions are removed. 
(4) Names of the elders who handled the matter. 
(5) The words "Do Not Destroy" for matters involving accusations of child sexual abuse (established or not). 
25. The sealed envelope should be placed in the congregation file by the secretary. If there is a need to open these files in the future, such as in connection with a plea for reinstatement, this should be done only by the elders who are assigned by the body to handle the matter. 
26. The sealed envelopes containing records on individuals who have not been reinstated should be kept indefinitely. If the person has been reinstated a full five years or has died, usually the file should be destroyed unless the case involved an accusation of child sexual abuse or an adulterous marriage or the committee believes there is some other reason to retain it. The same retention policy applies to records involving judicial reproof and wrongdoing handled by one or two elders. If it is determined that a sealed envelope should be retained after an individual has died, the date of death should be written on the outside of the envelope. If one or more of the elders who handled a specific case are no longer available, the Congregation Service Committee will assign other elders to determine if the file should be retained. 
"SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD" CHAPTER 22 
CORRESPONDENCE AND RECORDS 
27. If a person entered into an adulterous marriage, the file should be kept for five years after the judicial action and thereafter as long as the innocent former mate is alive, unmarried, and has not been guilty of sexual immorality (por-ne-ia).-See 12:10-12     - pages 200-202

My heart is dying for her

https://lyricstranslate.com

5 hours ago, Isabella said:

5 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Oh, we'd love each other better If we only understood.

🥰

Perhaps i am pessimist, but this two not working together (many, often times) in same direction. 

For example, understanding other people emotions, words and deeds and circumstances need to be understood through our mind or understanding, emotions .... and our experience. Complete lack or insufficiency of some level in needed measure of some or of all of this segments (and many more) will not bring to "enough" love and/or understanding for people in closer or distant places.    

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Didn't a member of the GB say something like 'Don't let them have their driving licence until they get baptised'.

Maybe this is more appropriate to call it as - "blackmail" or "carrot". And than, this "tool" is sort of manipulation :))

....for good or for bad. Future will bring answer.

Watch from minute 53.00 - 56.00 - "...so we will never change our Scriptural position on that subject....." 

His lips said that :))))

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/StudioMonthlyPrograms/pub-jwb_201711_1_VIDEO

JW Broadcasting—November 2017

@AuthenticJWinsider

Please, i am curios to know What makes you to be authentic? ... in comparison with @JW Insider ... or something else?

What benefit WTJWorg try to accomplish with giving criticism on one political system especially in moment when WT Corporation is under ban? Did JWorg not understand consequences and seriousness of this words, and how such statement will sound, when one US Corporation going to compare two political systems that was part of one Nation in USSR and Russia history? Are WTJWorg representative who gave this statement is a historian who giving picture of position of religion in USSR communist state and Russia now, on some Convention of historians?  Do WTJWorg try to say how history of political system in North America is better than this in Asia?

How such standpoint can be in harmony with JW preaching how all and every political system is under devil control and it is not good? WTJWorg working under US State political system and Laws. Do WT have aspiration or wish and hope that this political system and laws to be implemented in Russia too? 

What is a purpose when one of elders in JW congregation going outside of his primarily responsibility: to be shepherd of Jesus' flock, and not from a flock of  Russian president ?

7 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

I see that from your post. What I don't get is do they really think that an outside person is going to be able to explain the wt position better then they can? They have lawyers on speed dial, no? Or do you think they have to outsource because the wt's lawyers can only handle personal cases ( witness against another person or the like) and not really so when it comes to another organization?

Perhaps they use sort of "strategy". To find "neutral" party/side who will find nice few words for them. 

181 view, and no single like (except mine) ?? 

30 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Why?

 

Why the need to hire anyone?

 

they've been defending themselves for a long time, so why now with an outside.....hired......source?

In Australia hearing they tried the same thing with a little help of Dr. Monica Applewhite. 

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/file-list/Case Study 29 - Findings Report - Jehovahs Witnesses.pdf

8 Expert Evidence for the Jehovah’s Witness Organisation      page 73-75

 At the request of Watchtower Australia,637 the Royal Commission heard evidence from Dr Applewhite, who was engaged by Watchtower Australia to provide a report on the response of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to allegations of child sexual abuse.

52 minutes ago, Anna said:

If a tornado came tomorrow, and destroyed the new HQ in Warwick, what do you think most JWs would be saying?

quote: The take-home message? Don't make far-reaching claims about what principle can or cannot explain a phenomenon until you have considered all theoretical formulations of the principle. - https://www.sciencealert.com/new-research-says-the-uncertainty-principle-might-be-slightly-more-certain

I was at the opening of a new hall, before many years. The speaker invited some of the main figures involved in the project. One of them said JHVH guided them when buying land. There were two favorable plots. One in the lowlands and one in the elevated part of the land. They chose the latter. After a while there was a flood, and houses that were in the lowlands flooded. The brothers were very happy that their hall was not damaged. Of course, there is always the possibility of landslides, so houses on elevated ground may be damaged or destroyed.

In this case, god did not control the weather, but he did control the purchase of land. That was message, responsible brothers publicly made from stage. Their faith said so to listeners. And faith of listeners may grow too.

It can be how satan is not completely god of this system, because JHVH helping WT Society in this case. But in some other examples he not. It is confusing :)), and we will never know when god will help and when will not.

1 hour ago, Isabella said:

“Russian authorities today are following in the footsteps of their Soviet predecessors”, said a spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses world headquarters in Warwick, New York.

This is clearly... POLITICAL statement.

JWorg Headquarter took political position with this public statement. This is not wise and this is not example, role model of how to be Neutral Christian group.

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"The scores of branch office buildings, hundreds of Assembly Halls, and tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls around the world provide tangible proof that God’s Kingdom is real and is now ruling." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-kingdom/support/building-work-honors-jehovah/

WT Society teaching is: Jesus as King came INVISIBLE, Kingdom is INVISIBLE.

How it is possible and reasonable to give statement how WTJWorg VISIBLE buildings give TANGIBLE proof about INVISIBLE Kingdom?

To say how visible people who put faith in King Jesus and his Kingdom ARE PROOF makes more sense and would be understandable. Because faith as such, is individual proof of invisible things.... according to Heb 11. 

If people are moved, by faith, to building churches, to go in missionary service, not participate in wars ...etc, i will not consider that as proof that Kingdom exist, but as proof that YOU are BELIEVER. That YOU believe in this, sort of invisible, reality.

17 minutes ago, Witness said:

What does that strange term, “further Kingdom interest” mean?

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/end-times-prophecy-sign/

In describing what things will take place as visible "sign" of "conclusion" (in 70 CE) Gospels counting many events and conditions in the interaction inside society, among the people. Christians in the 1st century didn't build headquarter, branch offices, KH etc, what would be as a proof of God's blessings and proof that King is ruling in his Kingdom.  If apostles in 1st century was same as today GB, and vice versa, than it would be "normal" to expect same pattern of behavior, actions, plans, organizational instructions, doctrines, material programs, money principles, donation systems, building programs etc. in both period of time. That would be "proof" how 1st century GB and 20th century GB was run, guide by same power of God who do not change.

It was very well established  on this Forum how Jesus became King in the year 33 CE and had his Kingdom. In fact, He was The Kingdom on Earth not only in the midst of his disciples, (is "within you"), but also in the midst of his enemies. Obviously, 1st century disciples didn't need same sort of material "proofs" aka buildings for this, as WT publications want to show nowadays Christians how this sort of "proof" is exactly what they need today to "see".

Even in WT picture above, accent is on worlds conditions and people's deeds (and all are in context of evil). 

"The scores of branch office buildings, hundreds of Assembly Halls, and tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls around the world provide tangible proof that God’s Kingdom is real and is now ruling." - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-kingdom/support/building-work-honors-jehovah/

This same words was told by GB Helper Alex Reinmueller on JW TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzgfCMcOhM4&feature=em-uploademail  in 32:31 of this video.

Where in Bible and in Jesus' words you can find confirmation how construction program and buildings will be tangible proof about God's Kingdom reality on Earth?

Does Watchtower's worldwide possession of  properties, real estate (buildings) is part of "sign" of the Last Days ?

GB member Stephen Lett went "in deep" explanation about climate changes and weather on Earth. He said how JHVH lovingly control of weather for His people blessings stopped in long past (I think Mr Lett had Adam and Eve time period in mind). After, satan became ultimate cause for natural disasters until today. Obviously with, at least, one exception - Noah Flood. That was for sure "so called natural disaster" caused by God. Or by satan? Who will know that after Mr Lett "clarification".

Also, Jesus mentioned something about his Father who giving sun and rain (natural phenomena that contribute in regulating weather and to "so called natural disasters") to both good and bad people, to righteous and unrighteous. I wonder, what Jesus could say about his Father's "weather control" . According to Bible, it seems how his Father giving bad and good weather to both group of people, and He doing this without exemption.  

Now, who you will trust, who you need to trust?

46 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

I can't watch the video as my hearing is poor and I can never understand what people are saying, but the written summery is good. 

Hi! You can turn on Subtitles and they are on English.