Srecko Sostar

Very good response from long term JW member. And very dissonante response!! From now on, because JW members obey secular laws (and because of agreements that WT Society and Courts made) in everything that not oppose to God's law, have to consider how to accept new terminology and to explain in publications and in field service when people ask about hierarchy inside Organization. It will be very interesting to see what would be reaction of new interested persons when congregants tell them, how JW Church elders are clergy only in Court cases against them, but in everyday life all are brothers. :)) WT Society giving few claims, few interpretations about one standard: God is above all 1) obey God's commandments 2) obey secular law 3) obey God's commandments above secular law 4) obey secular law in everything that not contradict and opposing to God's commandments 5) obey Secular authority and God's authority when they work together and making compromise I am very interested to see how and when this "new clarification" (in your's or some other formulation) will see daylight in WT publications and on JW meetings. :))

Supreme Court of Montana - Reversal, January 8 2020 I chose few paragraphs, and some accentuation. The parties agree that elders are “clergy” under Montana law. Relevant here, § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA, provides: “A member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report under this section if the communication is required to be confidential by canon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.” ¶12 Jehovah’s Witnesses contend they are excepted from the general mandatory reporting statute pursuant to § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA. ¶30 Jehovah’s Witnesses point out that imposing a narrow definition of confidentiality impermissibly could discriminate between different religious beliefs and practices, protecting confidentiality of reports made in a confession from a parishioner to priest, like the traditional Catholic practice, while offering no protection to a congregant’s disclosures to a committee of elders using a process like that followed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. “It is the duty of courts, if possible, to construe statutes in a manner that avoids unconstitutional interpretation.” State v. Mathis, 2003 MT 112, ¶ 8, 315 Mont. 378, 68 P.3d 756 (citation omitted) ¶33 We hold accordingly that the undisputed material facts in the summary judgment record demonstrate as a matter of law that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not mandatory reporters under § 41-3-201, MCA, in this case because their church doctrine, canon, or practice required that clergy keep reports of child abuse confidential, thus entitling the Defendants to the exception of § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA We can reverse now something else: Did WT Society and all included in spreading "spiritual truths and doctrines" lied to general public and JW members by claiming how JW congregations have not clergy, priesthood class and how elders in congregations are not clergy, priesthood?

I believe how money can't REPAIR the Trauma. Money can do other things, other sorts of help for victim.

I am glad that someone helping people in need. But, because of your unappropriate way of how involving our names here, i will give you back (you ask for this) in this way: That doesn’t surprise us, for even Satan transforms himself to appear as an angel of light! - 2.Cor.11

Jesus: "The kingdom of heaven ...." ??!!

.... to protect financial assets, if i may say. Because there is no more need to protect Organization in sense of dignity and "to not drag God's name through the mud". CSA problem is strong in so many Institutions, religious and non-religious. In that, from secular point of view, JW organization is like every other organization. And they (world) have no need to pay more attention to WTJWorg than to every other religion or institution of any sort. What problem is : JW members and Management are worried about how worldly/secular people will look at them and what they will think about them - and that is, in JW' minds as: Only True Religion and God's Earthly Organization. In this aspect , from JW point of view, JW leaders found it very important to "protect organization" as the most holy in the world. Image of Organization have to be without spot, mainly in the view of members, who have to bring themselves into thinking how World have to see WTJWorg as only true and clean organization, in one hand, and because of that, this same World have to want to destroy and persecute WTJWorg, in second hand. One part of JW mind need some sort of "recognition" made by satan' World, and other part of JW mind in the same time wish to be "persecuted" in some form, as proof that they are and belong to only true religion. It comes to the point where self-realization (individual and as organization) about the correctness of one's own path is not enough. A dose of martyrdom is required. But again, not so high a dose as to cause harm in the financial stability of the Corporation. The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation.

If Montana have such law than that is obviously lawful how Supreme Court of Montana found elements that released elders and WT and Congregation from responsibility of such report. I am not expert to read documents in such a way and to see what is what into details. What is interesting, again, from several cases and Court documents known to public, is very strong interest of WT Society and JW elders to be considered in front, before secular authorities, as clergy, priesthood with all legal rights as Catholic clergy. In fact WT lawyers using Catholic clergy as example, how they want to be treated in the exactly same way. WT Society, elders and regular members have history of preaching against all religions and theirs priesthood who are instruments of satan, and how these churches and their priesthood lies to people and teach falsehoods. But now WT Society asking, in fact demands to be treated exactly in the same way, to be in same level of "spiritual position, authority" that have Catholic clergy. That is something disgusting, for observers. When taking such position, JW elders drinking "same wine of adultery" with their Catholic "colleagues". JW church has not "confession" doctrine as Catholic church has. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989217 Why? Because, JW church had not clergy ....until now :)))

JW elders are clergy and WT Lawyers have said so! The JWorg website for the public has "erroneous" information about this subject. :)) When will this "new light" about the WT Society Management structure come out titled, "What exactly are the elders in fact?", and will this be announced and presented during meetings to members, as a "clarification"?

Physical appearance of angels (in various cases that Bible described) was supernatural, or?

I also agree with this reality. But I also think it is then necessary to separate the idea that WT promotes. Again we need to ask ourselves: How does "true knowledge of God" multiply? Through "progressive knowledge"? In other words, this may mean that errors and accuracy occur through attempts. And so the results change. If one can describe the "progressive knowledge" of the Organization in this way, then it has nothing to do with their claim that the "holy spirit leads" GB and Organization with the same method, "progressive knowledge." If the holy spirit uses the "progressive knowledge" method, what is it different from the human "progressive knowledge" method? Human using "progressive knowledge" from the beginning. Somehow we can tell it is "invention" made by God when he created human brain. In Eden, Adam and Eve and their children accumulate their knowledge with years and experience. And in similar way WT Society done about Bible. I found interesting quote: “We tend to think human knowledge as progressive; because we know more and more, our parents and grandparents are back numbers. But a contrary theory is possible - that we simply recognize different things at different times and in different ways.” No matter what is the case, I am not sure how we should involve "holy spirit" in our mathematics. WT Society and GB claims how they are "guided by spirit", is just moving ordinary human try to understand something with various methods of thinking ("progressive knowledge") on "higher level" to put impression on members, who want to believe how exactly that what WT publications bring them, is/are "God's truth". Change of methods how to gain "progressive knowledge" is visible in "changed approached about type and antitype". Your article say: In times past, it was more common for our literature to take what might be called a type-antitype approach to Scriptural accounts. The Bible narrative was considered the type, and any prophetic fulfillment of the story was the antitype.... Additionally, it has been found that some of the older explanations about types and antitypes are unduly difficult for many to grasp. The details of such teachings—who pictures whom and why—can be hard to keep straight, to remember, and to apply. Of even greater concern, though, is that the moral and practical lessons of the Bible accounts under examination may be obscured or lost in all the scrutiny of possible antitypical fulfillments. ....Should we conclude that Bible narratives have only a practical application and no other meaning? No. Today our publications are more likely to teach that one thing reminds us of or serves to illustrate another. They are less likely to present many Bible accounts in a rigid framework of prophetic types and antitypes. For example, we can rightly say that Naboth’s integrity in the face of persecution and death reminds us of the integrity of Christ and his anointed. However, we can also be reminded of the faithful stand of many of the Lord’s “other sheep.” Such a clear and simple comparison has the hallmark of divine teaching.* - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015202 ..hallmark of divine teaching.. What is "divine teaching"? When WT Society had "divine teachings"? Before or after "changed approach"? Who caused "progress"? God, or human need to change what is old and making problem for WT GB theology?

That would need some research. But i am positive it can be found. :))

It doesn't matter if .... we will looking on this doctrine as of minor importance :))) and if that WT explanation have no significance and influence on some other WT explanations :)) I am in late 50's, perhaps you too. We are "younger" .... definitely :))))

Supreme Court of Montana - Reversal, January 8 2020 I chose few paragraphs, and some accentuation. The parties agree that elders are “clergy” under Montana law. Relevant here, § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA, provides: “A member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report under this section if the communication is required to be confidential by canon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.” ¶12 Jehovah’s Witnesses contend they are excepted from the general mandatory reporting statute pursuant to § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA. ¶15 The Jehovah’s Witnesses religion has established procedures for responding to allegations of serious sin, such as child molestation, within a congregation. When elders receive a report of physical or sexual child abuse, they are instructed to immediately call the Watchtower legal department in New York to determine whether the laws of their jurisdiction require them to report the abuse to authorities. According to the Jehovah’s 9 Witnesses, elders will report child abuse to secular authorities if required by law; otherwise, they address it internally. ¶30 Jehovah’s Witnesses point out that imposing a narrow definition of confidentiality impermissibly could discriminate between different religious beliefs and practices, protecting confidentiality of reports made in a confession from a parishioner to priest, like the traditional Catholic practice, while offering no protection to a congregant’s disclosures to a committee of elders using a process like that followed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. “It is the duty of courts, if possible, to construe statutes in a manner that avoids unconstitutional interpretation.” State v. Mathis, 2003 MT 112, ¶ 8, 315 Mont. 378, 68 P.3d 756 (citation omitted). ¶31 Finally, both the state and federal constitutions prohibit this Court “from considering whether certain religious conduct conformed to the standards of a particular religious group.” ¶33 We hold accordingly that the undisputed material facts in the summary judgment record demonstrate as a matter of law that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not mandatory reporters under § 41-3-201, MCA, in this case because their church doctrine, canon, or practice required that clergy keep reports of child abuse confidential, thus entitling the Defendants to the exception of § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA CONCLUSION ¶34 The District Court erred in ruling that Jehovah’s Witnesses were under a mandatory duty to report Peter or Holly McGowan’s disclosure of Maximo’s abuse and thus were negligent per se for violating § 41-3-201, MCA. We reverse and remand for entry of summary judgment in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses. - https://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Opinion-Published.pdf Well, again we see how WT Society have double talk. They claim how JW's have NO CLERGY CLASS. But it seems how in Montana they have clergy class. And they want to have the same privilege as Catholic priests, because otherwise they would have felt RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION. Where there is a priesthood, clergy, there are lay people. What JW members would say if they could know....?

I just ask: Are they in the heaven now? And what is evidence how they were resurrected in spiritual bodies in the 1914 (as i can recall) as WT Society made claim? I am not concerned about it because the true anointed have no need to seek each other in that way. Perhaps most of them are quite old today, and many old people, as we know, in general have no interest and motivation for digital technologies: whatsapp groups, facebook, google ..... :)))

You opened interesting subject. Single book or letter, that was later collected, making each and separate context. Content of each of them speaking about specific things. Connecting historical events that each and separate book describing, can bring some wider picture about events and persons involved. Human influence was involved in collecting and choosing. If we can make general agreement how SOME books and letters from the past period of time that was created in particular part of Earth, are inspired, we have NOT proof for claim, how collecting and choosing particular books and letters are under inspiration of same holy spirit. We can believe it is. WHY and HOW? WT Society teaching for a long time is, how God stopped to inspire people with holy spirit, even own servants in 1 century. In 1 century. When people started to collect OT books? Who was "inspired" to collect Hebrew writings in a format we have it today? When people started to collect NT writings? Who was "inspired" to collect Greek writings in a format we have it today? Context of each old writings is at first, context for itself. When people started to connect OT and NT writings in one "context", did they been "inspired" for such work? If they are, than WT Society wrongly claiming how influence of holy spirit stopped in 1 century. We would "expect" how "inspiration, guiding by holy spirit" is needed for such important, vitally important task. What we know is how Pope and bishops in Catholic church done that later on Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 and the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381, which decided what should be included in the Bible, after few decades of debates. WT Society explaining how JHVH is guardian of his Word and how He made influence on what will be chosen as His Word. Can we conclude how Pope and bishops were "inspired" or at least "guided by spirit" when doing that? If yes, what is difference when GB claim today how they are also "guided by spirit"? When we say how we must using "Bible context" to understand Bible, is not that self limiting? Because Bible text was primarily made inside historical context of time and people lived before. Our time and people making new sort of context. For example, blood ban have today very different context than that in days when it was written about. In this issue Bible context didn't bring any explanation or future ban about medical technology and using of blood in this context. Because, primarily Bible context was - not to eat blood as a food. Blood is not a food. This is first and perhaps only Bible context. What GB done about "blood context" is visible in very strange explanations about medico-religious using of "main components of blood" and "blood fractions". It seem how they agree with my idea of not to be self limiting when we talking about "Bible context" :))). But please, how this medical, scientific understanding about blood contributing to religious part of "Bible context"?

I think how something is wrong, confusing here. WT Society and GB using Bible verses how spiritual "evolution" is something what took place from 1919, when FDS and later GB start to "multiplicate knowledge". This multiplications and clarifications and changes of doctrines happening because light getting brighter (??!!). This is sort of evidence, how "spiritual improving (animal) human" going against original fall of perfection described in Bible. :)) ...The Bible presents modern man as the degenerating descendant of a perfect man.” According to WT standpoint, modern JW members not degenerating (spiritually) as descendants of Adam and Eve but all other human today does. Maybe JW's are under physical/body degeneration as all other human. But in sense of religiosity, spirituality and conscience and mental health, as i can read from your and WT context, JW members are nearest to idea of Evolution that speaking of "improving animal". :)) What is true? How WT JWorg and GB ("top-down" system) are closest to Evolution presents or to Bible presents ?

When G. Jackson explained before ARC how every JW in the World has own Bible and individual power for understanding/reasoning, which allowed him/her to not listen and obey what GB released, thought in printed way, video way or e-way, because that somehow contradict to his/her understanding/conscience..... does he talking about great and/or small matters or he speaking about some other sort of valuation about things/subjects that coming from GB?? "Causing contentions". Do you have in mind only public contentions between two or more persons, or you allowing also internal contentions - inside person?!

Dance is interesting, but music is intensive "attack" on hearing :))

Generally said, all teachings that are not approved by God and Jesus are "dangerous" in various levels of danger. Because such teachings not bring people closer to more proper view, perspective on things (i would avoid wording as "closer to truth"), but doing contrary. Ezekiel book 3:18,19

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen. Heb 11 1 Faith as state of our mind and heart, not need evidence. Because when you see evidence you don't need faith for what you see and about what this particular evidence serve to prove. Only "evidence" Abraham and Sarah received was spoken promise. Words they received was in form of Promise, and not in form of Testimony or Indication. If, that they then did a miracle, made from people/angels who gave Promise, for example to make bread - (of) - from stones, that would serve to Abraham and Sarah, as Indication - sign, how another miracle, future birth of son, is also possible. I that case her "faith in promise" would be supported by Evidence of bread made from stones. Definition of evidence (Entry 1 of 2) 1a: an outward sign : INDICATION b: something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter 2: one who bears witness especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against one's accomplices

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. Sarah " did not believe" (she laughed) because she hadn't clear evidence how promise is possible to come true. In other words she hadn't clear evidence to support her faith, to strengthen her faith. In fact she hadn't faith at all. And she showed lack of own faith with her laughing. In next 25 years they not showed faith in the promise. They didn't wait on JHVH! In that period Hagar came in family and give child. Only after, she was able to build her faith in God on some other level. To come back to 1914. WT society, similar to Abraham and Sarah didn't wait on JHVH too. But they entering own 1914 Promise how Kingdom will be born on Earth in that year. After they changed that same Promise, Kingdom borned Invisibly in 1914. Promise, supposedly made by JHVH and Jesus how his Kingdom will come (to be born) and change everything in 1914, was turned by JW's Mother Organization (Sarah) into involving "Agara" into "marriage, family" and thus Ismael aka false Kingdom was born in 1914. This is just fictional illustration for JW members who are sure how (based on clear evidence :)) ) their Mother Organization is JHVH' wife. Well, who is JW and WT organization, Sarah or Hagar?

WT literature say in one article: The faith in God the Creator that the Bible calls for, and for which it also furnishes the basis, is a faith based on clear evidence and sound reasoning..........As the Bible uses the term “faith,” it might be said to relate to two kinds of things: First, to the certainty of things hoped for, things not seen because of their being in the future. And, secondly, to faith in the existence of spirit beings, who are not visible to the human sight because of their not having material bodies; in other words, faith in God and in his promises. ....Faith that God exists can be firmly established by contemplating the power and wisdom manifest in visible creation, including its order and harmony. ........TRUE FAITH IN GOD REQUIRES A DIVINE REVELATION.........However, let us bear in mind that mere belief that God exists is not enough. That is not the same as having a true and living faith in God himself......True faith in God involves not merely the belief that he exists but also trust and confidence in God as a person......Faith involves not only the mind but also the heart, yes, the whole man.....And let it be noted that even as faith in God means having faith in his Word, the Bible, so faith in the Bible means having faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior of humankind and the King of God’s kingdom. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977280 clear evidence and sound reasoning .... Abraham and Sarah didn't have clear evidence how they will have son in old age. They had Promise. And they, more or less (when Sara laughed, that was sort of sound reasoning on issue) hoped that maybe this will be or how good it will be if somehow would be. But to secure offspring, Sara gave Agara to his husband, because she believed how there is more chance that old Abraham come to be father with young woman. Yes, they showed "faith" or whatever that is, without clear evidence about possible miracle, because such miracle they not saw happened before to someone else. One sort of clear evidence and sound reasoning would be exactly this: how same thing already happened to someone else, so we can "believe" it can happen to us also. Isaac and his obeying to father i don't see as he had a faith about own resurrection. Did he already had some clear evidence how God made resurrection in similar situation? We today have no clear evidence based on reading in Bible writings to show us what Isaac knew about resurrection issue and what he thinking about. We just give our assuming. Isaac has had less, because he could only saw dying and death of people and no resurrection around. We today have faith (about Abraham, Sara and Isaac), not based on some particular clear evidence and sound reasoning. We can show own conviction how Bible writings ARE clear evidence for our faith despite fact how normal or sound reasoning clearly say: death people are still death, very old woman can't give birth to a child. With this sort of conclusions (by making own convictions) you creating trust and confidence in Bible, God, JW Organization etc.

Very, very good, like it very much!

I have often seen you quote scriptures to suit yourself and with a very warped or emotional perspective. Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,+ the evident demonstration* of realities that are not seen. - Heb 11:1 wind ... big bang that can be measured ....intelligent design These things are not, shouldn't be your FAITH in things you expecting and hoped for. Basically, faith is your inner feeling how something is, was, will be. And YOU ARE evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. YOU by your faith, hopes with private and public manifestations making them as are real. When you counting: wind, measurement instruments and design, people not need your faith as evident demonstration, because they can do it without you. When you talking about God, Miracles and future Kingdom, these are things that need, required to be VISIBLE in FAITH (we can call this part of Faith with another name - Imagination), your's and in faith of people you preaching. Heb 11 1 speaking about future, well this sort of faith is looking in the future aspects. Part of faith about past that has some material evidences of thing that took place, but also about many things you can't prove with historical tools. In that case you also need faith (imagination) about something that was not visible any more.