Srecko Sostar

We need to wait to see if GB will look for “holes in the law” and then try to avoid or delay meeting its obligations to victims. You know, maybe GB is waging a "theocratic war" and has maneuvers on the "battlefield."

We need to wait to see if GB will look for “holes in the law” and then try to avoid or delay meeting its obligations to victims. You know, maybe GB is waging a "theocratic war" and has maneuvers on the "battlefield."

https://www.youngwitness.com.au/story/7424446/jehovahs-witnesses-join-redress-scheme/
The Jehovah's Witnesses has joined Australia's national redress scheme for child sexual abuse survivors under threat of financial penalties.
It is one of 34 institutions signing up following rules brought in by the federal government to withhold funding from and strip the charity status of groups refusing to join.
The Jehovah's Witnesses was initially named and shamed for holding out.
It flagged its intention to join the scheme in March and has now formally done so.
The other institutions include Tennis Australia, St John Ambulance Australia Queensland, Ipswich Girl's Grammar School, Youth Off the Streets and Scripture Union Tasmania.
Social Services Minister Anne Ruston says this means a total of 37 redress applications can be processed.
"It is clear that the powerful financial, reputational and legislative levers the commonwealth has used have been successful at ensuring institutions understand and recognise their moral obligation to survivors," she said.
"We are also working hard to make sure that every institution with a history of working with young people joins the scheme no matter when a survivor comes forward to access redress."
To date, commonwealth, state and territory governments alongside 526 non-government institutions are in the scheme.
As of last Friday, 11,835 applications had been received and 6208 payments made totalling more than $529.3 million.
It shows just what the GB will do for money. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-13/jehovah-witnesses-child-abuse-four-corners-investigations/100444320
Since the royal commission exposed the cruel treatment of victims of child abuse within the Jehovah’s Witnesses, little has changed. 
But in a landmark civil case, former member Amy Whitby is taking on the secretive religious group in court. 
Eight million Jehovah’s Witnesses around the globe believe that Armageddon is imminent, and the only path to survival is to follow the organisation’s strict rules.
A US-based Governing Body of eight men sits at the pinnacle of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organisation. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe these men are anointed as the voice of God on Earth.
All Witnesses are expected to obey instructions and doctrines that influence every aspect of life: Women are considered subservient to men, higher education is discouraged and homosexuality is not permitted.
 

Doomsday images from Jehovah's Witnesses publications. Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
 
The organisation’s in-house production studio and publications pump out fear-driven content that keeps followers afraid that the end is coming and that they are being persecuted by the outside world.
Witnesses are also taught to distrust everyone outside the group.
Just another article about the Watchtower / JW Org, but it shows people's personal opinions. It's worth a read.
So how do JWs expect to teach people 'truth' whilst people have this image of them ? 
 

If I'm not mistaken, there is an even more significant difference between them. A Catholic priest does not form a Judicial Committee of 3 priests, nor does he make a decision on transgression and bring punishment, but as a kind of advocate “liberates / forgives” sins in the name of God, expecting the sinner to be a penitent and no longer commit sin. Is such practice, from both side, good or bad? 
A sinner can be “thankful” if word of his behaviour does not spread further. But this is a criminal act (CSA) and it is no longer an important question whether the perpetrator will feel "embarrassed", but how to help the victim.
For JW elders, it should not be decisive how a Catholic priest acts and how they are treated by the Law and the Court. JW elders, because of their view that they are “true servants of God” placed by God in a leadership position, should have a more enlightened knowledge of merciful and just action / reaction for both parties involved. "Forgive whenever you can, punish whenever you need to." 

If I'm not mistaken, there is an even more significant difference between them. A Catholic priest does not form a Judicial Committee of 3 priests, nor does he make a decision on transgression and bring punishment, but as a kind of advocate “liberates / forgives” sins in the name of God, expecting the sinner to be a penitent and no longer commit sin. Is such practice, from both side, good or bad? 
A sinner can be “thankful” if word of his behaviour does not spread further. But this is a criminal act (CSA) and it is no longer an important question whether the perpetrator will feel "embarrassed", but how to help the victim.
For JW elders, it should not be decisive how a Catholic priest acts and how they are treated by the Law and the Court. JW elders, because of their view that they are “true servants of God” placed by God in a leadership position, should have a more enlightened knowledge of merciful and just action / reaction for both parties involved. "Forgive whenever you can, punish whenever you need to." 

I think you are a dreamer, but we've been down this road before and you will believe what you want to believe. 
If i remember rightly in one case, the Elders refused to testify against a fellow Elder, using that clergy privilege as the excuse.
Maybe Zalkin or the judge is being paid off by the GB and their Lawyers. 
But tell me please.
Australia had the Australian Royal Commission 
Here in the UK we have had the Charity Commission and the IICSA.
The Netherlands had an investigation and report. 
So what is America doing ? Where is the investigation in the USA ?
Canada, was trying to have a massive million dollar law suit, but I think it wasn't allowed. So what is Canada now doing ?
Seems strange that the Watchtower / JW Org isn't being investigated in it's 'home land'. 
( @Witness mentioned something about the Org making payment to a politician some time back )
The GB will do anything to keep their authority and power.  I think they are paying off someone in America to stop an investigation from happening. 
But of course if you know different. If you know of an investigation into religion in the USA ??? 

So, we could say that it is a matter of decision, In this case by JW elders, how much they want to be principled. The three Jews from the book of Daniel were so principled that they were thrown into the furnace of fire. Some are principled and refuse blood transfusions or military service. But WTJWorg lawyers are the ones asking the court that JW elders should have the same status as Catholic priests. It is not the court that grants them that status (perhaps court try to understand and make comparison between payed and not-payed "ministers" . The JW elders invoke the right not to speak before the Court what a JW member has admitted to them.

So, we could say that it is a matter of decision, In this case by JW elders, how much they want to be principled. The three Jews from the book of Daniel were so principled that they were thrown into the furnace of fire. Some are principled and refuse blood transfusions or military service. But WTJWorg lawyers are the ones asking the court that JW elders should have the same status as Catholic priests. It is not the court that grants them that status (perhaps court try to understand and make comparison between payed and not-payed "ministers" . The JW elders invoke the right not to speak before the Court what a JW member has admitted to them.

So, we could say that it is a matter of decision, In this case by JW elders, how much they want to be principled. The three Jews from the book of Daniel were so principled that they were thrown into the furnace of fire. Some are principled and refuse blood transfusions or military service. But WTJWorg lawyers are the ones asking the court that JW elders should have the same status as Catholic priests. It is not the court that grants them that status (perhaps court try to understand and make comparison between payed and not-payed "ministers" . The JW elders invoke the right not to speak before the Court what a JW member has admitted to them.

Laws and regulations about issue is available to see and you said well.
Of course, when we speak about JW elders then it is notable to understand how we have to put clear picture on question; Do they, JW elders, clergy or not? If they are clergy then they have "right" to call themselves on Catholic Clergy privilege and ask for same "rights" as they do. 
Is an elder in the JW congregation the same as a priest in the Catholic Church? Do they have the same role and obligations and status according to biblical principles? Do they belong to the same kind of hierarchy (Catholic hierarchy, "Apostolic" hierarchy) as WTJWorg lawyers have sought before the courts?
I guess someone gave him that information and someone "forbade" him to use it. Or he got them on the condition that he shouldn’t use them. The source (WTJWorg) of the information would have the right to publish that information for the sake of “truth and justice”. But that wouldn't be of interest to the WTJWorg organization, would it? That would distort the image of a "spiritual paradise."

Creating, collecting, using and storing records / documentation is not a problem in itself. The problem arises when one wants to deny the existence of documents. When it is used incorrectly or prohibits the use of documentation (public review or legal inspection of records according to regulations and legal acts). When it is not said how much documentation there is and what their content is. When it is not said what is the purpose of collecting and creating documents, and what is the future of records. And similar.
 

Yes, we have discussed this on the forum before. I think this issue is taken to be viewed from the secular perspective only. They, the secular authorities, designate JW elders as having a clerical role as ministers (of religion). Therefore, under official circumstances, such as in a court of law, elders are viewed as "clergy". Whether they themselves, or the congregation view them as clergy in the traditional sense or not is irrelevant in these secular circumstances. (JWs view everyone who is baptized as minister, but obviously there is a distinction between roles and obligations, since elders also have the role of oversight and shepherding). I think in secular terms the word elder falls under the umbrella of clergy, despite the fact that our "clergy" do not hold matters confidential (as you and pudgy pointed out) to the same extent as a Catholic priest for example.

Legislators obviously have not made an exception to who exactly should be viewed as clergy. They have not, as far as I know, added a clause which says JW elders should not be viewed as clergy because they are not the same as Catholic priests and do not view confidential disclosure in the traditional sense. By law, they fall under the same umbrella regardless of differences of application by the particular religion.

If I remember right, the plaintiff in a recent lawsuit tried to use the difference of elders and clergy to his advantage by arguing that elders cannot be viewed as clergy because their brand of “confidentiality” includes a whole body of elders and the HQ. However, the judge deemed this irrelevant because he said it is a religions right of how they (JWs) apply their beliefs, and that it wasn't the courts business to tell a religion how to run their religious affairs, and then on that account make exceptions to secular rules. In the courts eyes an elder was clergy, period.

In saying this, I personally believe the org. should refuse the designation of clergy by secular authorities as applying to them. But I am not sure if this is possible legally? It might not be.
In any case, if it is possible, then I think they should do it. But law is so complex, rigid, and impersonal and doing something that is not according to the law can have bad repercussions down the road, even for an innocent party.

The JWs have been trying to, actually imploring, legislators to change the law and make ALL clergy mandatory reporters (all over the world). This is what all victims want too. Perhaps this is the real answer to solving the problem…. 
 
 
 
 
The law forbids him to use it.  
I don't think the WT org. has the right to publish it or give anyone else the right. These papers involve specific cases, most of which have not even been proven, but are allegations (and these allegations would have to be proved as fact in court). To publish anything like this....well I am sure you can see this would be very wrong. Zalkin is not interested in publishing, (against the law anyway) as much as he is interested in wining specific cases. But unless a victim asks him to do so, he cannot open a case. So he has no choice but to keep the files locked up.

When elders are told to remove their personal notes from files regarding child abuse, and to destroy them, that is a form of denial.

There are SOooo many things that "look good on paper", that work well on paper, but in the REAL world, because all humans are flawed, some more than others, the "rules, regulations, protocols, and intentions" in the REAL world are. AS APPLIED, also deeply flawed.
It's the nature of the beast.
Those who don't get out of the basement much never realize this, and their inexperience, and lack of perception causes them to imagine a world where the way things SHOULD be is somehow attainable.
It's not
Get used to it.
Or have a stroke.
It's not so amazing that the dancing bear dances well ..... but that it can even dance at all.
In the Catholic World View, a Priest is the intermediary between God and mankind, and if you confess to the priest, whatever you confess is, in theory, known only between you and God.
The classic example of how this does NOT work is how, during World War II, in Germany, the Catholics were taking confessions of resistance fighters, and acting as an intelligence  network for whoever they thought would win the war, at any point in time.
Usually the Nazis, as former Cardinal Pachelli, who before the war was the Vatican Secretary of State, and who signed the "Holy Concordat" between the Vatican and the Third Reich, aligning the two governments in common cause.
So, a Catholic would confess to the Priest, and the info, if of tactical advantage to the Nazis, went to the Nazis.  Usually.
Among Jehovah's Witnesses, if a Brother or Sister confesses to the Elders some transgression, Matthew 18:15, in my experience, and the experiences of every account I have ever heard of, is NEVER invoked when it is time for "the rubber to meet the road".
Matthew 18 in general is completely ignored ...when it is needed the most.
Not only that, but they share details with the ENTIRE body of elders, who share it with their wives, and other elders in other Congregations they know well ... and make written reports to Headquarters, reviewed by many there. Lawyers, Secretaries, Clerks, and IT people when it is digitized.
Nothing new.  Nothing unusual. Same-Oh-Same-Oh.
It's just that the dancing bear has two left feet, and a balance problem.
Bears should not try and dance, but since the beginning of time, all figurative bears dress up in top hat and tails, and try to dance.
Anywhere on this planet, in every time and place, this is true, to a greater or lesser extent.
Recognizing REALITY, as it really is, is sad, discouraging, and then we die.
As each of us march without pause to our own eventual deaths, the important thing is to stay sane.
Sanity requires that we recognize that our "Spiritual Paradise" is not. It is, as applied, a very bad form of organization.
Sanity requires that we recognize that all the others are so much worse.
Matthew 18 is by far the most important book of the Bible, down here where the "rubber meets the road".
 
 

Laws and regulations about issue is available to see and you said well.
Of course, when we speak about JW elders then it is notable to understand how we have to put clear picture on question; Do they, JW elders, clergy or not? If they are clergy then they have "right" to call themselves on Catholic Clergy privilege and ask for same "rights" as they do. 
Is an elder in the JW congregation the same as a priest in the Catholic Church? Do they have the same role and obligations and status according to biblical principles? Do they belong to the same kind of hierarchy (Catholic hierarchy, "Apostolic" hierarchy) as WTJWorg lawyers have sought before the courts?
I guess someone gave him that information and someone "forbade" him to use it. Or he got them on the condition that he shouldn’t use them. The source (WTJWorg) of the information would have the right to publish that information for the sake of “truth and justice”. But that wouldn't be of interest to the WTJWorg organization, would it? That would distort the image of a "spiritual paradise."

Laws and regulations about issue is available to see and you said well.
Of course, when we speak about JW elders then it is notable to understand how we have to put clear picture on question; Do they, JW elders, clergy or not? If they are clergy then they have "right" to call themselves on Catholic Clergy privilege and ask for same "rights" as they do. 
Is an elder in the JW congregation the same as a priest in the Catholic Church? Do they have the same role and obligations and status according to biblical principles? Do they belong to the same kind of hierarchy (Catholic hierarchy, "Apostolic" hierarchy) as WTJWorg lawyers have sought before the courts?
I guess someone gave him that information and someone "forbade" him to use it. Or he got them on the condition that he shouldn’t use them. The source (WTJWorg) of the information would have the right to publish that information for the sake of “truth and justice”. But that wouldn't be of interest to the WTJWorg organization, would it? That would distort the image of a "spiritual paradise."

If I'm not mistaken, sharing some information, especially when it pertains to privileged and private information is not legal. I'm not even talking about sharing information about a perpetrator, I'm talking about the victim/survivor. Zalkin is sitting on a pile (he says about 100) of cases given to him by the org. which he is not allowed to use or make public by law. They are locked up in his safe. 
Also, I do not think the existence of such documentation/records has ever been denied.
 

..... something performed or practiced in order to develop, improve, or display a specific capability or skill
....regular or repeated use of a faculty or bodily organ
- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exercise
To believe or to show faith, to show trust .... is what Jesus has rewarded many times. He performed miracles on people who showed faith, not faith that developed after months or years of exercise, but faith as the current state of mind and heart. 
Truly I say to you that whoever tells this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but has faith that what he says is going to happen, he will have it happen. Mk 11:23 nwt
Or, people in WTJWorg have years of training how to move mountain?  

Essentially, knowledge means familiarity with facts acquired by personal experience, observation, or study.......Source of Knowledge. Jehovah is actually the basic Source of knowledge. Life, of course, is from him and life is essential for one’s having any knowledge. (Ps 36:9; Ac 17:25, 28) Furthermore, God created all things, so human knowledge is based on a study of God’s handiwork. (Re 4:11; Ps 19:1, 2) God also inspired his written Word, from which man can learn the divine will and purposes. (2Ti 3:16, 17) Thus the focal point of all true knowledge is Jehovah, and a person seeking it ought to have a fear of God that makes him careful not to incur Jehovah’s displeasure. Such fear is the beginning of knowledge. ................Unless a person exercises faith in Jesus Christ as God’s Son, he cannot grasp the real meaning of the Scriptures and see how God’s purposes are working out in harmony with what He has foretold. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002643

This is for sure one way how to deal with wicked persons. People's (and animals) life and health must be protected. 
Are secular courts have no right to be entitled? Well, if so, then you ask or advice us to be independent in/about in determining, at one's own discretion, when one is allowed to lie and deceive institutions that are "appointed by God" to maintain order in human society. This is done by JW lawyers in the courts of "Western democracy".
If a JW member has the right to do so to “worldly persons,” what guarantee do you give that he/she will not do the same to his own JW members of the assembly or to elders? Because that’s a practice that’s common in WTJWorg. People keep things quiet or even lie about the facts. And, JW people are still people like everyone else, right?
So, i would say, the example you gave is justified. But if so, then this is true for all people and in all situations for which an individual deems it justified to lie. If there are exceptions in which we may lie or misrepresent facts, then you (JW people) are no different from “secular people” who have the same kind of argumentation about their actions.
Lying for "the truth" is allowed, and lying for a "lie" is not allowed.    So, Pilate was not mad after all when he asked Jesus, What is the Truth? 
What will be "the truth" when JW lawyer open his mouth? 

Creating, collecting, using and storing records / documentation is not a problem in itself. The problem arises when one wants to deny the existence of documents. When it is used incorrectly or prohibits the use of documentation (public review or legal inspection of records according to regulations and legal acts). When it is not said how much documentation there is and what their content is. When it is not said what is the purpose of collecting and creating documents, and what is the future of records. And similar.
 

One also might forget that Mormonism has a problem. 
The woman expressed, “As we have said in other investigations, what marks religious organisations out from other institutions is the explicit purpose they have in teaching right from wrong; the moral turpitude of any failing by them in the prevention of, or response to, child sexual abuse is therefore heightened.
If someone on the outside needs to remind a religion of their “moral” obligations, then, as is the case in the Wt., the religion is practicing immoral responses in the case of CSA.  
 What sets this organization apart from all other religions?  Nothing, all established religions have their roots in the world of immorality and corruption.  But the Wt. is also committing spiritual immorality as a holding ground to trample, persecute and destroy the anointed priesthood in Christ..and any who have joined them.  (Matt 24:15,16,24; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; 13:1,2, ,5-7, 11,12,15; 16:13-16; 12:3,4,15,17)
Jesus purposefully said, worship that is approved by the Father is in “spirit and truth”, not through any earthly “mountainlike organization”.  (John 4:21-24)  He began His Temple arrangement/“organization” of anointed “living stones” in the first century. (John 2:19-21; Eph 4:4-6; 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) And it will be the “mountain”/spiritual organization that will rise above all corruption and immorality.  Isa 2:1-4; Zech 4:6,7) The greatest test against these “stones” is through an earthly organization established by men, that convinces millions that it belongs to God.  How can that be, when in this document there are two pages directed to the failures of the CCJW to practice morality? In this case, the Wt. is certainly “like the nations”.  Ezek 20:32
It is time to separate from the corruption and immorality of the Wt.  Rev 18:4-8 
"For on My holy mountain, the high mountain of Israel, declares the Lord GOD, there the whole house of Israel, all of them, will serve Me in the land. There I will accept them and will require your offerings and choice gifts, along with all your holy sacrifices.
41When I bring you from the peoples and gather you from the lands to which you have been scattered, I will accept you as a pleasing aroma. And I will show My holiness through you in the sight of the nations. 42Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, the land that I swore to give your fathers.
43There you will remember your ways and all the deeds with which you have defiled yourselves, and you will loathe yourselves for all the evils you have done. 44Then you will know, O house of Israel, that I am the LORD, when I have dealt with you for the sake of My name and not according to your wicked ways and corrupt acts, declares the Lord GOD.”  Ezek 20:40-44
 
 
 
 

Creating, collecting, using and storing records / documentation is not a problem in itself. The problem arises when one wants to deny the existence of documents. When it is used incorrectly or prohibits the use of documentation (public review or legal inspection of records according to regulations and legal acts). When it is not said how much documentation there is and what their content is. When it is not said what is the purpose of collecting and creating documents, and what is the future of records. And similar.