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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    Um, @Thinking seems to be well versed in The Satanic side of things. 
    @xero and @TrueTomHarley and being insulting as usual, whist still pretending to be Christians. 
    Unfortunately @Srecko Sostar  it seems you will not get a sensible answer out of any of them. They just continue to serve their GB and do as they are told by those leaders of the Org.  Being obedient to those taking the lead would only make sense if the ones taking the lead had spiritual guidance through Holy Spirit from God through Christ. 
     
  2. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    I think we already know that the GB ( and previous leaders ) make it up as they go along. 
    Acts 15 : 28 & 29
    It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. 
    That seems to prove that the GB go beyond the things written. 
     
  3. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    Under what circumstances they curse own day of birth? .... says a lot about this issue. 
    I hope, You don't think how individual have to curse his birth day every time he/she have problems in life?
    Now I get it. "Sinners alone, not saints" going to take higher education and became Lawyers who defending WTJWorg in Court cases. Please, what sort of logic is given in conclusion made by Origen? Who is Origen, that we should listen and accept his explanations?
  4. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    Please, who were people who were "guardians of doctrines" in period of 2000 years before WTJWorg? ... and where that place was located you speaking about? In Bible?
    Then God do not need GB to be "guardians" today!
    Perhaps it is funny in your community, ...... but shameful and not expected that you would use such shallow way of communication. ..... and I did not come to this forum to teach someone how to behave.
    Good luck with that.  
  5. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    It is not about justification something, but about fact that Bible never said how celebrating birthday is wrong. 
    Just for serious fun. Bible not instructed JW members to give monthly report, but you still doing that despite fact how JHVH or Jesus not command you are obligated to do so. Even more, elders making decisions about your "spirituality" based on your monthly reports. Where in Bible you can find justification for that?
    Bible not instructed you how going to higher education is against God' or Jesus' teachings, but your publications still harping on that, and you welcome such instructions. 
    Do you really want to go into and to enumerate what are and how many there are real, original "Bible Instructions" God gave to people? 
  6. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance   
    Do you actually know who the Temple of God are ? 
    1 Corinthians 3 : 16 & 17
    6  Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? 17  If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple.
    This was Paul writing to the Anointed ones in Corinth. It is the Anointed that are the TEMPLE.
    So where do you think the Anointed remnant are ? 
     
  7. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    One wife at a time is enough  
  8. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    Apologize, but we have to make clear distinction between this two celebration. Christmas vs Jesus Birthday celebration. Christmas is one wrong way full with traditions and folklore of that how people are convinced that they giving honor to Jesus. JW members missed opportunity to "show the world" what can be better or proper way to doing so.   
    Nowhere in its text does the Bible show that celebrating a birthday is wrong or pagan. 
    Has having more than one wife ever been a pagan custom? Jewish law in the Bible says no, but it was and became a Jewish custom legitimized by decrees. How would JW members declare today what polygamy is? A pagan custom or simply a social norm of a nation and tradition?
    Is celebrating a birthday "more dangerous and bigger evil" than having more women or vice versa?  
  9. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    I think it has been proven that God's name is not Jehovah. Even when Rutherford started the JW thing they actually believed that God's name was Yahweh, but because Jehovah was 'well known' at the time, that was what they used. Yehovah may be closer but in fact no one really knows.
    But totally disobey Jesus' words about baptism. 
    The 1914 teaching cannot be proven and is probably untrue.  All authority was given to Jesus in 33 C.E. unless you wish to call Christ a liar. 
    Re-read your own words and stop and think right there.  through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Not through the JW Org.
    But the Org teaches that, A. One has to get baptised into the ORG, B. One has to be a baptised JW to be saved.
    The JW way is not God's or Christ's way. The instruction from Jesus was to to Baptise in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 
    This idea that they will rule from heaven is not definite. One scripture seems to be able to be translated as either 'over the earth' or 'on the earth'.  And there is something about Gog / Magog surrounding the Camp of the Holy Ones, which would be on Earth ? As I don't pretend to fully understand this, i will keep an open mind on it. 
    I like this.  This is truthful. @Arauna thinks humans are 'most important' or that was how she commented to me. But this shows truth in that the issue is more about the spirit realm than about us. There would be no point cleansing the Earth if Satan and his demons still 'ruled over it'. 
    This could lead to a large debate .  Most things that JWs 'see' are material things. Especially in America with Warrick and Ramapo. And JWs look to the GB as God's mouthpiece F&DS. All reading material comes from this GB and their helpers, some of whom are not even Anointed ones. The whole JW movement is based on what is seen with physical eyes. Not much room is left for real faith. 
    This is a funny one. Instruction comes from the GB via talks and the Watchtower mag. So beliefs clarified are taught to the congregations. That actually means that the congregation is TOLD what to believe. However personal Bible reading is encouraged AS LONG AS a congregant does not find reason to disagree with the GB's instruction on what to believe. 
    Um, yes, but only if you do it to the GB's set of rules. The GB had it written in the Watchtower that members of the Anointed would 'not want to meet together to pray or to study God's word' and, if they did meet together ' they would be working against the Holy Spirit'
    Congregants don't actually do much of this. Especially since the 'trolly/cart' work started. What congregants do is act as puppets for the GB. To stand at a cart offering the written word of the GB is not preaching the Good News. Also offering Watchtower mags is not preaching the Good News, it is distributing the GB's written words. 
    This is of course a complete lie. The Elders are the clergy class and prove it in Court rooms around the world.  
    This is another lie. The beard thing being one issue. Dress code being another. Birthdays another. And as a personal thing I was totally embarrassed by an Elder at my daughter's wedding, when this Elder put his hand over my glass and told me, in front of everyone, that I was NOT ALLOWED to drink a toast to my daughter and her new husband. 
    This is another issue which was the teaching of MEN, not of GOD. @JW Insider has raised this point. 
    Not much respect in Australia when asked to join the compensation scheme. Not much respect in the UK when the Charity Commission first asked for CSA documents. 
    Unless it is someone that has left the JW Org of course. Or even a young person that was baptised too young and then commits sin. Jesus also said 'to love your enemy'. But JWs show hatred to ex JWs and to anyone that is disfellowshipped, and we know that people are d/fed for the wrong reasons some times. But all are shunned and despised. And the CSA / Pedophile problem and mistreatment of Victims shows the hypocrisy here.
    Core teachings. Hypocrisy at it's best. The whole thing just proves the dishonesty and lies of the Governing Body and others involved in writing it, and in pretending it is true.
     
  10. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Kick_Faceinator in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance   
    I want to agree, I wish I could agree, but God wouldn’t have used Russell and is not using the Watchtower simply because of the fact they both are direct opposers of the apostle Paul’s warning to announce the Day of the Lord began before the man of lawlessness was revealed.
    Paul warned:
    “Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.” 2 Thessalonians 2:2
    The Watchtower and Russell are the opposers of Paul who say it began:
    “BACK in 1914, Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom, and the Lord’s day began." - w88 10/15 pp. 15-20
    Paul says don’t believe them. Who are we going to believe, the Watchtower, Russell, uninspired men?…or the inspired apostle Paul?
    The Watchtower wants us to believe that the man of lawlessness is Christendom, but that is impossible because Paul said the man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God.
    “Don’t be fooled by what they say [the Watchtower and Russell]. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
    We know the temple of God are the anointed, not Christendom.
    “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?” 1 Corinthians 3:16
    So unless Christendom is somehow filled with Gods anointed ones that make up Gods temple, there’s only one place the man of lawlessness can possibly be sitting right now…
    1914 is Satans game.
    “This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs [1914, world war 1, 2] and miracles.,” 2 Thessalonians 2:9
    Satans got them by the throat. The whole Watchtower societies existence is contingent upon 1914 being true, but the fact is, the whole entire organization of Jehovahs witnesses, is a lie.
    “For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” 2 Thessalonians 2:11
    If God we’re using the watchtower, he would be supporting the man of lawlessness, Satans man.
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    Speaking of names and opinions, perhaps the authors of this text should list the accompanying comments of each of the GB members, in the list of "core beliefs / doctrines". Why? Because their names and accompanying comments would give “credibility” to every essential point of belief. After all, they are the “guardians of the doctrine,” as Mr. Jackson told the ARC. “Guardians of doctrines” have “power,” since 1919, to shape doctrines and modify them as needed. And that is their practice to this day. Which will continue in the future, as you noticed very well.
    Such an even clearer role (more clearly visible to the ordinary believer) for the FDS aka GB as the Main Ecclesiastical Governing Body*, among other things, would have the effect of minimizing the role of the individual who, due to his "immature" biblical conscience and "weak" theocratic knowledge, could put in question his own future and exercise bad influence on the “spirituality” of other members.
    “Guardians of doctrine” have in the past, for example, celebrated Christ’s birthday. Then they decided it was a pagan custom. How could this become a pagan custom, when the angels in heaven sang and rejoiced at the moment of Jesus ’birth? Yes, no child born into JW families will become a future “king”. But JW parents can celebrate a child’s birth with faith and hope that it is their child who will become a good human (or at least a future member of the JW church - a little irony).
    The "guardians of the doctrine" support the division into clergy and laity. They have confirmed this with statements before the courts, and they confirm this with the practice in assemblies around the world. They are declaratively against it and this teaching is not on the list of "core doctrines", but it is widely used in the daily practice of religion. It is indeed manipulative of GB to oppose the clergy-laity relationship and this they support by biblical passages and quotations and interpretations of those same passages. On the other hand, they makes abundant use of the same form/model that they names and declares unbiblical.
    I think many of you will agree that the List of “core doctrines” that is offered is neither accurate nor complete.
    *Cobb v. Brede (California Superior Court, San Mateo County February 22, 2012) ("I am general counsel for the National Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses out of Brooklyn, New York. ... We are a hierarchical religion structured just like the Catholic Church").
    California’s appeals court provides a generally accurate description of the Jehovah’s Witnesses hierarchy. The relevant upshot is that, “[e]lders are the highest authority at the congregational level,” and, thus, are the Jehovah’s Witnesses equivalent of Roman Catholic priests.5 In order to be appointed an elder, a person must first be a ministerial servant in IAN S. MILLICAN 3 ESTABLISHING DUTY IN CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES AGAINST THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BY IAN S. MILLICAN 2. ESTABLISHING DUTY IN CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES AGAINST THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES 4. GOING REMOTE: 2021 EMERGING TRENDS FOR MEDICAL MALPRACTICE LITIGATION 5. ROBINS KAPLAN FILES INJECTAFER CASE 6. NEWS 7. RECOGNITION AND CASE RESULTS good standing.6 Top-down, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, or, “Watchtower,” as the parent-organization is known, is controlled by the Governing Body of eight elders, essentially the board of directors for Watchtower.7 - https://www.robinskaplan.com/-/media/pdfs/newsletters/robins-kaplan-justice-report-winter-2021.pdf?la=en&hash=70455F1B07EC6E66C42EB1DB8E42163E
    Here, Petitioner Watchtower sought to protect confidential, intra-faith communications among clergy (elders) regarding Bible-based religious appointment processes, some of which included congregants’ penitential confessions and all of which impacted privacy rights of non-parties..............
    ...........J.W. asserted she requested Watchtower produce various documents, and Watchtower refused citing the clergy-penitent privilege. - https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-40/104104/20190625174601258_288149_Petition.pdf
     
  12. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    What exactly are the “fundamental doctrines” for JW members?
    Are they clearly visible and enumerated, in the Bible as a whole text? Or are these specific teachings of Jesus Christ? Or are these important doctrines that are an integral part of the JW religion?
    If something is called fundamental, then there may be a few things, maybe five, maybe ten, that are the basis for everything else. As far as I can remember, Jesus said quite clearly what is most important in the religious life of a believer, that is, in the "religion" he promoted. He said, Love God and love people the same way.
    The very thesis you are trying to advocate, and that is, that core doctrines are correct, automatically means that you have doctrines that are not fundamental. And what’s worse, that these unimportant doctrines aren’t accurate, they’re wrong, maybe even false. So where will that take you? Some of you are concerned with ratios, so they say most doctrines are correct and a minority are not. Or vice versa.
    How many fundamental doctrines are there in the teachings of Jesus? How many less important doctrines are there in the teachings of Jesus? How many subsequently interpreted teachings or “beliefs clarified” are there in Jesus ’teaching? Why has WTJWorg GB put itself in a situation of multiplying teachings that it subsequently revises, instead of sticking solely to “core doctrines” whose source is Jesus and not some people in the Organization? Why don't JW members recognize Jesus' legacy, but are willing to repeatedly follow people who have proven to be generators, promoters, and stewards of wrong/false teachings?
    And if we are already talking about the ratios of accuracy and inaccuracy, truth and falsehood in the religious and administrative doctrine of the Organization, then you really need to worry about yourself and your part in promoting inaccurate and incorrect, false interpretations and teachings as you preach your beliefs to other people. Reminder for illustration: Does the Organization have a division into priests and lay people? If you say no then you are not telling the truth. And another important question: Is this doctrine about priests and lay people a “core doctrine” or not?
    Given the new “overlapping generation” interpretation you will not die in this “system of things” but in some other/future system, and whether you will die old and content depends only on you as individuals.
    But I do hope how "overlapping generation" is not part of your "core doctrine".   
  13. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied   
    Not that it should matter too much to anyone here, but just to get a discussion started, I will happily state that I am in 100% agreement with all the scriptures in this list. And am in 100% agreement with at least 990 of the 997 words (counted by copying the content portion of this to https://wordcounter.net/).
    I found only 3 things I'd take a small issue with:
    "Professor Jason D. BeDuhn aptly described it when he wrote that" I agree with this point, but I'm embarrassed that such an important list (for our purposes) has the name and opinion of a "secular" professor in it. Jason DeBuhn's name has been on this list since at least 2015 and has never been removed. It's inconsistent with the rest of the list, which otherwise only highlights a simple Bible basis, not some scholar. "A person’s works prove that his faith is alive." This isn't necessarily true. A person can have works that look like they are motivated by faith, but are motivated by self-righteousness, a competitive spirit, a desire to earn salvation and be rewarded accordingly, blindly following men, etc., just to mention some common examples.   (Matthew 7:22) . . .Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not . . . perform many powerful works in your name?’ "He began ruling in 1914." Hmmm. I've probably said before that I can't find this one in the Bible. (And it's just about the only sentence that has no scripture to back it up.)  I wish it had said: "We believe Jesus is now ruling invisibly from heaven." Or, "We believe that we now live in a time when Jesus, from his heavenly throne, is giving special attention to matters of the Kingdom on earth." In addition to those, there are a couple of other things, much less important to me, that I could see changing in the future, and the change wouldn't cause a problem or inconsistency either way. For example, I could see the possibility that the "144,000" is a symbolic number, and might even represent the full number of natural Jewish Christians as easily as it could represent the full number of spiritual Jews. But the list explicitly allows for some expressions to be interpreted symbolically, anyway, so it wouldn't bother me either way to use the expression, "The 144,000 will rule in heaven."  ["We recognize that parts of the Bible are written in figurative or symbolic language and are not to be understood literally.—Revelation 1:1. "]
    It's also possible that "blood" in Acts 15 is a symbol for "bloodguilt," such as murder, manslaughter, war, etc., just as "idols" can include things like "gluttony" (Phil 3:19) "greediness" (Col 3:5) and even "pleasing men" (Eph 6:6,7; Gal 1:10)  Personally, for my own conscience, I'm fine with the idea that abstaining from blood transfusions is one way that we abstain from blood. But there's a chance that we as individuals and as an organization should not be imposing this as a rule on the Bible-trained consciences of others.
    That idea might already be covered, even if unintentionally, by the very nice idea expressed here: "Our unity allows for personal choice, though. Each Witness makes decisions in harmony with his or her own Bible-trained conscience."
    Outside of those few comments, I would be willing to die for the other 990 words out of the 997.
  14. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to TrueTomHarley in Could the JW.org sell off all kingdom Halls and become a full time Zoom religion complete with back room counseling and Disflellowshipping?   
    You may have suffered from reading too much of Witness, who carries on and on about material things being an “idol” for Jehovah’s People. In fact, they treat Kingdom Halls pretty much like people treat their homes. If they outgrow them due to more family members, they build something bigger. If it outgrows them due to the kids moving out, they downsize. Since (admittedly with some exaggeration) Jehovah’s people can put up and dispose of buildings pretty much live the overall world can put up and take down Coleman tents, as they have plenty of trades people and volunteers, it is less trying for them as it would be for most groups.
    In general, where there are circumstances conducive to humility, kingdom interests increase. Where there are circumstances conducive to pride (income and advanced schooling) kingdom interests hold their own or even retreat. In my area, if called upon to account for a Hall being sold, I explain that it is on account of our great growth.
    No.
    Who can say? It probably varies with the individual. When the timing of events turn out fortuitous, some will think it coincidental and others will credit God for it. Since we are a godly people, I’m sure we will have more crediting God than, say, a group of humanists. 
    As PSonH is fond of saying, With God all things are possible!
    But there is no grapevine consensus that I am aware of.
  15. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Tim 4:1,2
    "seared with a hot iron" -"to render unsensitive"
    CHARLATON - "a person who pretends to have skills or knowledge that they do not have"  Cambridge Dictionary
    Under "Related words and phrases" - a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    "I know that after I leave, savage ("burdensome, imposing, impressive") wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. "  Acts 20:29,30
     
     
     
     
  16. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    PENITENCE, REPENTANCE, CONTRITION, COMPUNCTION, REMORSE mean regret for sin or wrongdoing. PENITENCE implies sad and humble realization of and regret for one's misdeeds.  absolution is dependent upon sincere penitence  REPENTANCE adds the implication of a resolve to change.  repentance accompanied by a complete change of character  CONTRITION stresses the sorrowful regret that constitutes true penitence.  tearful expressions of contrition  COMPUNCTION implies a painful sting of conscience especially for contemplated wrongdoing.  had no compunctions about taking back what is mine  REMORSE suggests prolonged and insistent self-reproach and mental anguish for past wrongs and especially for those whose consequences cannot be remedied.  thieves untroubled by feelings of remorse 
    Feeling or showing regret for something said or done is a prerequisite for reconciliation with those to whom we have erred. Are they in remorse too? Do they show penitence and contrition? etc.
    It is not possible to know how any of those who contributed to the misconceptions in the JW organization felt about it. Some who have been involved in past misconceptions have been involved in change, but I don’t think most of them have, but some new people have done so when they came to positions of power.
    What about the current creators of delusions? Some of them believe in their delusions because they feel they have offered something better than their predecessors. Or they have to adapt their new delusions to existing concepts with some modifications for several reasons.
    Yet, no text in WTJWorg publications, known to me, contains any of the previously described characteristics of someone who is aware of his (individual or collective GB) error. It simply all comes down to a so called “human error” that can happen to anyone. But in most cases (throwing blame and responsibility) it refers to ordinary members who have "misunderstood" something or many things in publications.
    The founders of doctrines and interpretations themselves have always found a way to explain their "error" by a lack of sufficient "light" and "knowledge", because then, when they wrote about a topic, there was no "God-given time" to know "real truth". But now, in this very moment when they "clarified" things, it is "true and proper knowledge" that have to be accepted, because it is from God ..... again    
     
  17. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    PENITENCE, REPENTANCE, CONTRITION, COMPUNCTION, REMORSE mean regret for sin or wrongdoing. PENITENCE implies sad and humble realization of and regret for one's misdeeds.  absolution is dependent upon sincere penitence  REPENTANCE adds the implication of a resolve to change.  repentance accompanied by a complete change of character  CONTRITION stresses the sorrowful regret that constitutes true penitence.  tearful expressions of contrition  COMPUNCTION implies a painful sting of conscience especially for contemplated wrongdoing.  had no compunctions about taking back what is mine  REMORSE suggests prolonged and insistent self-reproach and mental anguish for past wrongs and especially for those whose consequences cannot be remedied.  thieves untroubled by feelings of remorse 
    Feeling or showing regret for something said or done is a prerequisite for reconciliation with those to whom we have erred. Are they in remorse too? Do they show penitence and contrition? etc.
    It is not possible to know how any of those who contributed to the misconceptions in the JW organization felt about it. Some who have been involved in past misconceptions have been involved in change, but I don’t think most of them have, but some new people have done so when they came to positions of power.
    What about the current creators of delusions? Some of them believe in their delusions because they feel they have offered something better than their predecessors. Or they have to adapt their new delusions to existing concepts with some modifications for several reasons.
    Yet, no text in WTJWorg publications, known to me, contains any of the previously described characteristics of someone who is aware of his (individual or collective GB) error. It simply all comes down to a so called “human error” that can happen to anyone. But in most cases (throwing blame and responsibility) it refers to ordinary members who have "misunderstood" something or many things in publications.
    The founders of doctrines and interpretations themselves have always found a way to explain their "error" by a lack of sufficient "light" and "knowledge", because then, when they wrote about a topic, there was no "God-given time" to know "real truth". But now, in this very moment when they "clarified" things, it is "true and proper knowledge" that have to be accepted, because it is from God ..... again    
     
  18. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in DEFINING APOSTASY   
    PENITENCE, REPENTANCE, CONTRITION, COMPUNCTION, REMORSE mean regret for sin or wrongdoing. PENITENCE implies sad and humble realization of and regret for one's misdeeds.  absolution is dependent upon sincere penitence  REPENTANCE adds the implication of a resolve to change.  repentance accompanied by a complete change of character  CONTRITION stresses the sorrowful regret that constitutes true penitence.  tearful expressions of contrition  COMPUNCTION implies a painful sting of conscience especially for contemplated wrongdoing.  had no compunctions about taking back what is mine  REMORSE suggests prolonged and insistent self-reproach and mental anguish for past wrongs and especially for those whose consequences cannot be remedied.  thieves untroubled by feelings of remorse 
    Feeling or showing regret for something said or done is a prerequisite for reconciliation with those to whom we have erred. Are they in remorse too? Do they show penitence and contrition? etc.
    It is not possible to know how any of those who contributed to the misconceptions in the JW organization felt about it. Some who have been involved in past misconceptions have been involved in change, but I don’t think most of them have, but some new people have done so when they came to positions of power.
    What about the current creators of delusions? Some of them believe in their delusions because they feel they have offered something better than their predecessors. Or they have to adapt their new delusions to existing concepts with some modifications for several reasons.
    Yet, no text in WTJWorg publications, known to me, contains any of the previously described characteristics of someone who is aware of his (individual or collective GB) error. It simply all comes down to a so called “human error” that can happen to anyone. But in most cases (throwing blame and responsibility) it refers to ordinary members who have "misunderstood" something or many things in publications.
    The founders of doctrines and interpretations themselves have always found a way to explain their "error" by a lack of sufficient "light" and "knowledge", because then, when they wrote about a topic, there was no "God-given time" to know "real truth". But now, in this very moment when they "clarified" things, it is "true and proper knowledge" that have to be accepted, because it is from God ..... again    
     
  19. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance   
    I think you are having a laugh. But I'm more concerned as to why it is so important to you. Russell wasn't a JW and had nothing to do with the forming of the JW religion. He said that an organised religion was not necessary.  Rutherford it seems, went in opposition to Russell, as it seems Russell didn't want Rutherford to take over. 
    If the Bible Students Association are being truthful then they are the true followers of Russell's works, not JWs.
    Brother Russell Founded the Bible Students, not Jehovah’s Witnesses
    https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2011/09/01/bible-students-are-not-jehovahs-witnesses/
    This early Bible Student history book is written by Bro. Ken Rawson, a Bible Student elder who knew more Bible Students from Pastor Russell’s and JF Rutherford’s time than any other Bible Student elder alive today.
    After the death of Pastor Russell in 1916, the purpose of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society changed drastically. Joseph Rutherford, whom Pastor Russell had recently dismissed from his staff, seized legal control of the Watch Tower, dismissed the majority of the Board of Directors, and established dictatorial authority. The Watch Tower became the central head and authority over all congregations willing to yield their sovereignty. Basic doctrines of the “new society” seriously digressed from the teachings of Pastor Russell as the writings of Pastor Russell were discarded. The methods of conducting the evangelistic work were altered. The more sensational digressions, such as refusing blood transfusion and saluting the flag, caught the public’s eye.  But many individuals and whole congregations refused to surrender their Christian liberty or accept the new teachings. As early as 1917, the exodus from the newly declared sovereign headquarters began. By 1918 one-fourth of the Bible Students left Judge Rutherford and remained true to the teachings of the late Pastor Russell.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Student_movement
    Thousands of members left congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society throughout the 1920s prompted in part by Rutherford's failed predictions for the year 1925, increasing disillusionment with his on-going doctrinal and organizational changes, and his campaign for centralized control of the movement.[2] William Schnell, author and former Jehovah's Witness, claims that three quarters of the original Bible Students who had been associating with the Watch Tower Society in 1919 had left by 1931.[4][3][a] In 1930 Rutherford stated that "the total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society... is comparatively large."[5]
     
  20. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Yes, I agree. WTJWorg Administration has been proving that for 142 years ... with black letters on white paper. 
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Is that not what we see the GB have done over the years?  Remember the list of "Beliefs Clarified"?
     
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Perhaps you can share the scriptures used by your leaders that convinced the generation of 1914 that they would not “pass away” before Armageddon would come?  What scriptures are being used to teach the new “overlapping generation” doctrine?
    Or, those scriptures that support the replacement of the holy priesthood in the anointed, with “Gentile” elders.  (Rev 11:1,2)
    Can you tell me where in the scriptures, God speaks of an earthly organization built in Satan’s world to appear as the path of salvation, above and beyond the salvation in Jesus Christ?  (John 14:6; Acts 4:12)
    I only see God’s Temple/dwelling of Holy Spirit – “the temple of the God of Jacob” (“Israel”) and built with “living stones”, as the “mountain” that people will stream to, in the last days.  (Isa 2:1-3; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)
    It is from this “mountain” where the “law of the Lord” will come forth – from “New Jerusalem”.   (Rev 21:1-3)  That law will not deviate from truth by teaching lies.
    Where, in the scriptures does it say that the Wt. organization will be unscathed through Armageddon and stand prominently with all of its buildings in the Kingdom of God?  This is what A. Morris tells us. 
    Can you provide scriptures which tell us, that even though “death will be destroyed” by Jesus Christ when Armageddon has reached its end, (1 Cor 15:26) , it will return a thousand years later, in the Kingdom of God – the Kingdom which God promises that “death will be no more”?  (Rev 21:4)
    Yes, Satan can deceive, even the "elect" - God's anointed ones.  Matt 24:24,25
     
     
     
  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Yes, I agree. WTJWorg Administration has been proving that for 142 years ... with black letters on white paper. 
  24. Upvote
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did everyone notice another book added to the Watchtower Library "CD" and the WOL?   
    Thanks again. The enumeration presented shows on which elements the doctrinal settings of WTJWorg are based. It also contains a list of things you act on because of accepted doctrines, but also because of some direct actions in the past that you seek to emulate.
    Certainly, we must acknowledge that some of the doctrines on the list are the product of today's JW's interpretation or understanding of the meaning of biblical passages, and this is subject to further discussion, which has already been discussed or will be discussed in the future.
    If you allow me, I would say that only some of the things you mentioned are recognizable as "religious doctrine". And some other things are part of the administrative and organizational nature, which refer to some patterns of behavior and thought of people thousands of years ago. That patterns must not be wrong because they are old, but are just reflection of life conditions of people in past time. 
    When you or other people mentioning Jesus words from Matt 22:39 - The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’, -  I would never thought about them as "religious doctrine". Those words are many miles away from any sort of "religious doctrine". They are unimaginably more sublime and important than most "doctrines". Well, in fact of all the "doctrines", I would venture to say. .....This is evident from question: Was the law created/made for man or was man created/made for the law? In Mark 2:27 Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 
    Question; Was Sabbath "core doctrine"? or some minor rule? Sabbath was/is part of 10 Commandments. In that/such context perhaps many believers would say it is "core doctrine". Jesus showed another perspective.
    According to, great caution is needed when it comes to "core doctrines". They must be in the service of man, not the other way around. Understanding the doctrines and choosing the doctrines by which we should look at ourselves and others, our own lives and the lives of other people, and derive other instructions and guidelines can easily turn into a multiplication of life-suffocating rules.
    We should also see what the differences and similarities are when we use another term - “principles”. Are "principles" in the service of "doctrines"? Are they equal or are “principles” more important?  
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