Srecko Sostar

@George88
Answers are in this comment, again:
 

Tell me, please, how can imperfect people be perfectly frank in their statements about own mistakes?
Doesn't imperfection imply the constant possibility of error, by the own admission of these church leaders? How, then, can the alleged sincerity in statements be spared from mistakes?
Is there really such sincerity among religious leaders that does not hide a touch of falsehood?
 

According to WTJWorg the alleged "spiritual growth", progress is conditioned by a good understanding and daily reading of "spiritual literature". If we exclude the Bible, which people in general and even JWs themselves will not be able to understand without the aid of WTJWorg, i.e. the huge amount of written material that explains and interprets the Bible, we arrive at the following:
"Spiritual growth" in WTJWorg means constant change of theology, clarification and abandonment of "incorrect truths" because of some new "incorrect truths".
Indeed, all those baptized children were indeed not "spiritually mature" when they agreed to accept the WTJWorg conditions for baptism.

lol,
"Scriptural maturity" means understanding the meaning of the WTJWorg statement which reads: 
Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger. (1 Cor. 13:11) 
After that, the person will also understand the mentioned biblical quote.

Proof, evidence of this is all those "JW kids" who left WTJWorg years or even decades later.

Proof, evidence of this is all those "JW kids" who left WTJWorg years or even decades later.

lol,
"Scriptural maturity" means understanding the meaning of the WTJWorg statement which reads: 
Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger. (1 Cor. 13:11) 
After that, the person will also understand the mentioned biblical quote.

According to WTJWorg the alleged "spiritual growth", progress is conditioned by a good understanding and daily reading of "spiritual literature". If we exclude the Bible, which people in general and even JWs themselves will not be able to understand without the aid of WTJWorg, i.e. the huge amount of written material that explains and interprets the Bible, we arrive at the following:
"Spiritual growth" in WTJWorg means constant change of theology, clarification and abandonment of "incorrect truths" because of some new "incorrect truths".
Indeed, all those baptized children were indeed not "spiritually mature" when they agreed to accept the WTJWorg conditions for baptism.

I would agree that any mature person should not be denied baptism.
But I must ask, what is "scriptural maturity"?

Well… I go by life experiences. 
When my brother was 17, during the 1960’s, he wanted to Join the Marines, go to Vietnam and  “kill gooks”.
A year later he was 18, a hippie, and said “Hell No! We won’t go!”, and didn’t.
Real life experiences trump esoteric theory.

This is the underlying principle of what everyone here knows and remembers …  and the REASON for objections to minor child baptisms …except of course Wally McNasty and his up and down voting clone sock puppets.
But then again, that is what WDS IS.

Regardless of anything else that may or may not be true, the 2001 and 2012 Watchtowers offers much  sound advice. (… entirely from memory, but it made sense at the time…)
The fact that it is CONFLICTING advice is the sticking point!
And … the issue of massive collateral damage for a premature decision made by an 8 year old, etc. is never mentioned in baptism recruiting efforts.
At what age do you think a child is mature enough to give others the legal right to destroy him or her, and their family relationships, perhaps ten years later?
There was a valid reason why Jesus was not baptized at age 12.

When it comes to "one of the most serious" decisions (marrying), the society says: "Christians want to wait to get married until they are mature..." (Ref Jan 15, 2001 Watchtower)
So for "one of the most serious" decisions of marrying, the advice is to wait until you are mature.
When it comes to baptism, the society calls this "the most serious decision" an individual can make. (Ref June 15, 2012 Watchtower)

… exactly the diversionary tactics I described in my posts … instead of just downvoting my posts … refute them!

…. give it a try  … you can use whatever Whack-A-Mole pop up screen name you want!  After two sentences everybody knows it’s YOU anyway!

…
 

…
Harsh, but fair.
They did say specifically in Governing Body Update 2023-8 that the example they used for guidance was powerful and respected mens’ customs of the world.
( rolls eyes and facepalms forehead )
The only thing I can imagine is that at their weekly meeting on Wednesday sometime in December an Angel with a flaming sword appeared and “read them the riot act” … or their accountants told them they were bankrupt.
Or possibly some Multi-Billionaire with a Beard was recently baptized.
…. merely guesses.
The Warren Commission Report on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was issued on September 24, 1964.
Before I die, I would like to read a non-fiction version.

GB refers to the culture and trend of the business world and politicians, so it allowed the wearing of beards. GB is what the threat is. 

And now it’s time for the multi-name Whack-A-Moles and his/her/they/thems’ minion up and down voting doppelgänger sock puppets to have their say ….

There is a LESSON TO BE LEARNED from the “Beard Fiasco” …. Perhaps many lessons.  
The question is … how many tens of thousands of the Brotherhood will be collateral damage every year until those lessons are learned?
 

I think the issue of underage baptism needs to be evaluated the same way other decisions are made by minors …. and since a Baptism Covenant and dedication between a person and God CANNOT BE UNDONE … except by God … it should be made with that foremost in mind.
This is a Covenant Of Dedication, allegiance and fealty to God and his Christ ….
ONLY!
1.) At what age should a lesser decision be made by a minor about getting married? I say at least 18, and for about 1/4 of the population 24 to 30.
2.) At what age should a lesser decision be made by a minor about getting a driver’s license? I say at least 18, if they can pass the exams.
3.) At what age should a male or female decide that they want to be surgically mutilated, by circumcision or “transgender” reassignment? I say at least 30.
4) At what age should a man or woman be allowed to take up recreational parachuting? I say at least 18.
5. At what age should a person be allowed to join a military organization? I say at least 18, preferably 24.
6.) At what age should a person be allowed to consume alcohol, or other recreational drugs? I say 18 as a minimum.
7.) Since the JW baptism oath of today legally binds you to obey the policys and directives of the “Organization”, under pain of being disfellowshipped, and exiled, and shunned, and the same to every JW that knows you that does not do the same, at what age should a young person be baptized? I say 18, the same as any secular military organization.
In scripture ONLY men and women were baptized. Jesus was Bar-Mitzpah’d at age 12, presumably, but waited to be baptized until he was 30.
Why?
A person, boy or girl, should not make a decision at age 8, 10, 12 or before age 18 that has the potential to later HAVE OTHERS DESTROY THEIR AND THEIR FAMILIES’ LIVES.
These conclusions are only my personal opinions, but they have a rational basis.
Like circumcision, male or female … baptism cannot be undone.
If the Society would allow shunning to be a personal decision of each individual in the Congregation, and release all the hostages from their oath of fealty and obedience to the WTB&TS “Organization”, so they cannot be sued because they are members of a private legal covenant … I would withdraw my objection to an 8 year old being baptized.
For a change …. let God decide.
The Baptism Covenant should be between individual people and God and Christ ONLY.
Earthly accountants, lawyers, and overreaching tyrants who promise to rule well, BUT INTEND TO RULE ANYWAY, should not be involved.
It took them 80+ YEARS to figure out beards!

We are talking about the baptism of children. 

All personal opinions are subjective.
All collective opinions are objective.... from the perspective of the group.
The saying goes that repetition is the mother of wisdom. That's why I'm repeating it to you, so that you can learn new knowledge. lol
WTJWorg's biggest argument against (infant and children, too) baptism in the Catholic Church is all the Bible quotes that, while describing "Biblical Baptisms," do not include infants and children, but only men and women (Act 8:12). You are now making the argument that the "absence of a specific mention", in the Bible, "does not negate a possibility of" certain practice.
So you really want to go with such a clumsy way of proving that the Bible doesn't forbid something or how Bible allow something, just because it doesn't talk, write about that something? The Bible does not say anything against, say, celebrating birthdays. God nowhere forbids you to celebrate the day of your birth. So how could WTJWorg, based on the absence of a prohibition in the Bible, claim that God hates birthdays?
You now claim that "young people" may have been baptized in the time of John the Baptist. Does the group "young people" include young men and women or minor children? ("Minor" in possible biblical terminology, and also "minor" in today's terminology) And why don't you use the only term that is correct in the context of this topic, which is the term "children"? .....,"Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger." 
Children, not "young people". 
Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance,a telling the people to believe in the one coming after him,b that is, in Jesus.” . Act 19:4
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" - Act 8:12
Bible purport of term "people" here are "men and women", not children. 

WTJWorg claims that children are not enough mentally competent.
quote: "Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."
Consequently, this means that they are not mature enough to make decisions about their religious affiliation with the WTJWorg through the act of baptism, because; "they are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason and to recognize and avoid danger" for dedicating his life to the Religious Corporation.
No. How on earth you came to such conclusion? 
 

WTJWorg has made a public statement with very clear meaning regarding the mental capacity of children. They made a general statement that covers all children.
As  supposed proof that their claim is justified and correct, they used one biblical verse.
In what context is Paul's statement from this biblical quote applicable? 
Its 13th chapter deals with the spiritual and religious aspects of one's understanding of God's dealings with men. He talks about knowledge and love and faith. Paul is not talking about CSA. Nor is there any indication that he was alluding to the CSA.
WTJWorg used it in the context of a life situation that can affect the youngest members of a family and society in general.
Why do you think that this is the only application that this Bible passage can cover? Don't JWs teach that the Bible is the Word of God that helps people in ALL circumstances of life?
I dismiss your criticism as baseless. I am horrified by your ability and desire to try to selectively apply what WTJWorg baselessly uses only for their current needs of religious domination over people. This shows that you are a successful "student" of your spiritual "teachers".

Here is a Zinger!
There is no biblical example of ANYONE being baptized as anything other than as a full responsible adult.
Jesus was what … 30 years old?