Srecko Sostar

Perhaps it was mentioned before in another topic, but i am fascinated how WTJWorg authors of their book "Let your Kingdom come" use common terminology to discredit others who have opposing views. They said: 
From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E. However, no historian can deny the possibility that the present picture of Babylonian history might be misleading or in error. It is known, for example, that ancient priests and kings sometimes altered records for their own purposes. Or, even if the discovered evidence is accurate, it might be misinterpreted by modern scholars or be incomplete so that yet undiscovered material could drastically alter the chronology of the period.
If we want to do this, we can very easily use all these specific terms to describe the way many biblical scholars in WTJWorg work when interpreting Biblical history and the alleged "prophecies" that have "second fulfillment".
 

Because nothing happened that Russell predicted based on his interpretations of the Bible and secular history, it should be obvious that the underlying chronological calculations were bogus.
Not really. What happened is a lot more complicated. Rutherford used 1874 rather than 1914 until the early 1930s. Then over the next decade, Rutherford and Franz gradually migrated everything about 1874 to 1914. I cover some of this in a recent essay, if you're interested.
But when a group of religious leaders claim to speak for God, and to be guided by him, and to be God's mouthpiece, and to receive angelic direction, that's a lot more significant than in other spheres of life. After all, scientists won't disfellowship you from some organization merely because you contradict the ideas of prominent scientists. And they don't claim to speak for God, but for themselves, by writing papers that marshal evidence and try to convince other scientists by weight of evidence rather than weight of authority.

Yes, I know.
But there was talk of 1914, and the gentile times ending, even though nothing like what he expected happened. I also know that since all expectations about it failed, 1914 got swept under the carpet for a long time, to be "resurrected" some time in the 1940's. JW history is not quite honest about that, and gives the impression that although Russell was disappointed, 1914 was always believed to be the year Jesus was enthroned, which as we know is not true. Nevertheless, it doesn't bother me too much (the dishonesty does) because I expect understanding to progress over time. It's like that in every sphere of life, medicine, science, technology etc....

Nonsense. Did Jehovah cause the 9/11 deaths in New York?
By the same token, Jehovah is responsible for the horrible deaths of every prey animal on earth for half a billion years.
And of course, Jehovah is responsible for all of the Watchtower Society's false predictions and false teachings.

Anna said:
Actually, both dates are not only disputable, but flat out wrong. See below.
How times have changed. When I was a teenager in the 1960s, the whole "Gentile times" doctrine was put constantly to the fore. Even as a young teen, I knew the basis for the entire doctrine front to back. I arrogantly thought that this was part of why we JWs were a religion so superior to all others -- we knew the Truth!
Correct. And of course, both the 70 year figure and 537 are purely Watchtower interpretations of the underlying Bible verses and secular history. Those interpretations are demonstrably wrong.
Indeed. You might start with my essay "Biblical Evidence Against Watchtower Society Chronology" ( https://ad1914.com/biblical-evidence-against-watchtower-society-chronology/ ). It's about as simplified as I know how to make a subject that the Watchtower Society has so badly convoluted. Look up the Scriptural passages, and make your own judgments. If you find something you disagree with, by all means bring it up in this thread.
To date, not one JW apologist has published a refutation of my essay on any forum I'm aware of. Incompetent fakes like ScholarJW object to its conclusions, but only with a circular 'argument': "it's wrong because 607 is right." You'll probably see that here with ScholarJW.
As for anything in 1914 being 'predicted' by C. T. Russell, he got nothing right. Everything he predicted that was supposed to be observable failed. Note his predictions (See 
https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-2-statements-concerning-1799-1874.html for more 😞
The Time Is At Hand, (originally published in 1889), said concerning the Times of the Gentiles, on pages 76-77 (early 1912 Edition):
<<
God's Kingdom, the Kingdom of Jehovah's Anointed... will be established gradually, during a great time of trouble with which the Gospel age will close, and in the midst of which present dominions shall be utterly consumed, passing away amid great confusion.
In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove: --
Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will have obtained full, universal control, and that it will then be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions.
Secondly, It will prove that he whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date; because the overthrow of these Gentile governments is directly caused by his dashing them to pieces as a potter's vessel (Psa. 2:9; Rev. 2:27), and establishing in their stead his own righteous government.
Thirdly, It will prove that some time before the end of A.D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will be glorified with the Head; because every member is to reign with Christ, being a joint-heir with him of the Kingdom, and it cannot be fully "set up" without every member.
Fourthly, It will prove that from that time forward Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down of the Gentiles, but shall arise from the dust of divine disfavor, to honor; because the "Times of the Gentiles" will be fulfilled or completed.
Fifthly, It will prove that by that date, or sooner, Israel's blindness will begin to be turned away; because their "blindness in part" was to continue only "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25), or, in other words, until the full number from among the Gentiles, who are to be members of the body or bride of Christ, would be fully selected.
Sixthly, It will prove that the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy; and then men will learn to be still, and to know that Jehovah is God and that he will be exalted in the earth.
Seventhly, It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34) -- and fully consume the power of these kings. Its own power and dominion will be established as fast as by its varied influences and agencies it crushes and scatters the "powers that be" -- civil and ecclesiastical -- iron and clay.
>>
Note that the above is from a pre-1912 edition. Late 1912 and subsequent editions edited some of the statements thus:
<<
In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will see the disintegration of the rule of imperfect men.
Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will begin to assume control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established....
Thirdly, It will prove that some time before the end of the overthrow the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ....
>>
On pages 98-99 The Time Is At Hand said:
<<
True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved; but we are living in a special and peculiar time, the "Day of Jehovah," in which matters culminate quickly; and it is written, "A short work will the Lord make upon the earth....
In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914.
>>
The post-1912 editions edited the second paragraph to read:
<<
In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished near the end of A.D. 1915.
>>
The Society tends to minimize the certainty with which Russell published statements like these, but his express statement that "we consider it an established truth" clearly shows his intent. On page 101 the 1908 edition of The Time Is At Hand said:
<<
Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 [Later editions of The Time Is At Hand changed this to 1915] with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word.
If our vision be unobstructed by prejudice, when we get the telescope of God's Word rightly adjusted we may see with clearness the character of many of the events due to take place in the "Day of the Lord" -- that we are in the very midst of those events, and that "the Great Day of His Wrath is come."
>>
I challenge any JW apologist to show how anything observable in Russell's predictions came to pass in the sense his writings obviously meant. And I mean "meant", not with the hindsight of more than a hundred years of rationalizations by Russell's successors, but in the obvious sense that the Bible Students understood those predictions.

Perhaps it was mentioned before in another topic, but i am fascinated how WTJWorg authors of their book "Let your Kingdom come" use common terminology to discredit others who have opposing views. They said: 
From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E. However, no historian can deny the possibility that the present picture of Babylonian history might be misleading or in error. It is known, for example, that ancient priests and kings sometimes altered records for their own purposes. Or, even if the discovered evidence is accurate, it might be misinterpreted by modern scholars or be incomplete so that yet undiscovered material could drastically alter the chronology of the period.
If we want to do this, we can very easily use all these specific terms to describe the way many biblical scholars in WTJWorg work when interpreting Biblical history and the alleged "prophecies" that have "second fulfillment".
 

Anointed or not, nobody is worth to be "followed" in this Organizational/Religious sense we speaking about, no matter where they or we are in this particular moment. GB and Elders, they seek to be obeyed. If you obey them than you in same moment "follow them". 
And they ask that from members although they give the wrong/err instructions and teachings. And (many or few times) they are aware that they are giving bad and wrong instructions. 
If we are not supposed to follow "Paul and Peter", why JW's looking on GB and Elders with exactly such undesirable mind and heart attitudes ?

PROJECTION:
If we include Allen Smith##, Billy the Kid, etc., in the count, I think you just reached example number 1,000!!
We should have some kind of celebration.
Wikipedia:
Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves by attributing them to others.[1] . . .  It incorporates blame shifting and can manifest as shame dumping.[2]

It can be. The same can be said for WTJWorg "bible scholars" :)) who dealing with the possible interpretations (hidden messages aka second fulfillment) of biblical verses. 
There is no independent support for the tradition in Daniel of Nebuchadnezzar’s seven years’ madness, and the story probably arose from a fanciful later interpretation of texts concerned with events under Nabonidus, who showed apparent eccentricity in deserting Babylon for a decade to live in Arabia. -https://www.britannica.com/biography/Nebuchadnezzar-II
Perhaps, some of you will have time to deal with this quote.
How is possible that Babylonian empire, throne and king who are full of religious doctrines and secular ideas that are in opposition to JHVH can REPRESENT His RULERSHIP?  
You mean like, GB sitting on JHVH throne, in sense to represent JHVH's will today? If they are or become bad JHVH will removed them by some secular power? In local or global way? In local way, Russia acted under JHVH will to remove some bad elements in Russian WT Branch? And what is next? On global scale Gog of Magog will also done JHVH will? Who can "put own hand in fire" to claim how GB in WTJWorg is not under same judgement as those old kings in Jerusalem ??

If WTJWorg looks for parallel interpretation and making claim how "the dream" is illustration for God's Kingdom, than GB need to face the fact that they are actually claiming that God went mad at one point and was left without power over the Earth.
Cameron: That’s all right. The Bible shows that Nebuchadnezzar lost his sanity, evidently for seven years. During that time, he was unable to rule as king. But at the end of the seven times, Nebuchadnezzar regained his sanity and started ruling again. *
Jon: OK, I’m with you so far. But what does all of this have to do with God’s Kingdom and the year 1914?
Cameron: In a nutshell, this prophecy has two fulfillments. The first fulfillment happened when King Nebuchadnezzar’s rulership was interrupted. The second fulfillment involved an interruption of God’s rulership. So it is this second fulfillment that is related to God’s Kingdom.
Nebuchadnezzar = JHVH 
JHVH Kingdom stopped to be (World's) Ultimate Power in 607 BCE, because of .....,  caused by...., lets read how Cameron explained this: 
Cameron: In Bible times, the Israelite kings who ruled in Jerusalem were said to sit on “Jehovah’s throne.” * They represented God in governing his people. So the rulership of those kings  was really an expression of God’s rulership. In time, however, most of those kings became disobedient to God and most of their subjects followed suit. Because of the Israelites’ disobedience, God allowed them to be conquered by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E. From that time on, no more kings represented Jehovah in Jerusalem. In that sense, then, God’s rulership was interrupted. Are you with me so far?
Kings in Jerusalem = JHVH, But they were conquered by Nebuchadnezzar = JHVH.
Disobedient Kings, Jerusalem = Disobedient JHVH conquered by Mad Nebuchadnezzar = Mad JHVH.
Are you still with Cameron so far? :))
Another thing is for massive consideration. If by any chance JHVH lost his power over Earth in 607 BCE than he also lost his power over Heaven too, because of same reason, and that is his "madness", what ever that could be.
If, by WTJWorg interpretations, JHVH regained his Power in 1914 CE, than question is; Who gave to Jesus Whole Power on Heaven and Earth in 33 CE ??? 
 

Daniel didn't understand 1914 CE.
Jon don't understand 1914.
But Cameron are able to explain all with Bible. 
Did i said Bible? I meant, with WTJWorg publication. I must be dummy too:))
On what arguments Cameron based interpretation? Let see.
1. But now, in our time, we can understand them more fully.
2. So these prophecies would only be understood much later, during “the time of the end.” And as we will soon discuss in our Bible study, all evidence indicates that we are now living in that time period.
3. In a nutshell, this prophecy has two fulfillments.
 
I don’t think it’s as "convincing" today as it was when we were young and full of "Bible enthusiasm". First to mention is GB confession that their interpretations of the Bible are full of misconceptions , and that their interpretations came through wrong methods (beliefs clarified). So much about GB ability to understand.
Second, WW1 is best "proof" that WTJWorg have (after 1914 fiasco when they expected Armageddon in that year) evidence that humankind living in time of end. Despite Jesus' warning to not be mislead with, You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. 
Third, Type and Anti Type model or Second (Third) Fulfillment is claim without real foundation, and belong to "wrong methods". 

difference between hating a person and hating the actions and behavior that person demonstrates
Aha, that is what JW video instruct JW member: Mother don't hate dfd daughter but she hates picking up a ringing phone :))
"Morris illustration" is an example of what should be avoided at all costs. What would it be: Jesus was a weak teacher to Morris? Or did Morris learn nothing from Jesus?
We two, are on safe "social distance". I will not be influenced by you, and you will not by me. So, we just "chat" about doctrines and interpretations...and show to known and unknown readers of our posts where we are in a "stream of thoughts and ideas". Is this ok with you?

:))) Stupid and scary at the same time.

The snag with that is Daniel said the tree represents Nebuchadnezzar himself - not just Babylonian rulership ('The tree ... is you, O King'). While Nebuchadnezzar was ill, the kingdom, its everyday affairs, commerce, government, agriculture, etc. continued.
Another problem (apart from giving the dream an antitypical fulfillment that isn't scripturally warranted), is Babylonian rulership was uniformly seen in the Bible as oppressive to God's people, and yet this oppressive regime that destroyed his people's cities and cruelly held them captive is a type for God's righteous kingdom? How does that work?

Okay, I can be stupid, because that's how you think of me. No big deal. But I wonder if giving down-vote for someone else’s comments is following Jesus ’example? You know what i mean, in style, love your enemies?  
GB member A. Morris, your human leader, claims that ex-JWs are apostates and that apostates are enemies. And he said how happy he is because all apostates will be dead soon. But he forgot to mention "his Leader Jesus" who says opposite; love your enemies.
:))
If you have time, send message to A. Morris with Bible verses:
Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart rejoice when he stumbles,
Otherwise, the Lord will see and be displeased,
And turn His anger away from him. 

I'm not sure if you are referring to me, or generally. I should have been clearer and said this does not seem good enough for some. It seems good enough to me. However, I am open to learning the viewpoint of those who think differently. This is why this topic was created, to hopefully get a:
Although I do understand that a completely concise answer may not be possible because there are a number of intertwining factors involved, I am hoping that at the end of this discussion, every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be able to understand both sides of the coin.

:))) Stupid and scary at the same time.

GB member Anthony Morris and his followers are of those, for sure. His "hatred speech" on JWTV is well known.
Question is: Why haven't you seen the "difference by now"? :))
When people on this Forum go beyond decency and consideration because they are emotional in the passion of arguing, then throwing each other up with “strong” expressions has its fun side that can be tolerated to some degree. However, when a member of the Governing Body of an International Organization makes Public Announcements and Instructions, for JW and non-JW listeners, in which he incites intolerance and hatred towards those who expose the Theological and Business manipulations of WTJWorg, then it can hardly be attributed to a duel between several members of one Forum like this.

@Srecko Sostar This comment below does not include you .
I can only assume that some people on here do not have a loving marriage partner to spend time with.   To spend so much time 'researching' all that 'stuff' and so much more time arguing about it all, when it has no real purpose.  1914 has no real purpose in relation to our Christian love toward God and Christ. And no one knows the day or the hour, and a 'day' in this instance would not mean a literal day. 
The scriptures, especially Paul's letters, tell us not to get caught up in silly arguments.  
But you 'guys' will probably continue to argue.  Oh how we need that True Anointed to guide God's people. 

"This is my first video. I'm not sure how many videos I will do. I hope to reach out to Jehovah's Witnesses and former JW's in the Missouri area. My reason to do these videos is not to hurt anyone but to bring awareness to the issues that face JW's that are in a high control group."
Please, hear his words.  Elders are realizing that as "shepherds", compassion must be regulated according to men, and not according to the Bible.  
 
 
 

Jeremiah's 70 years fits perfectly within the 66 to 73 year period of Babylon's domination. Remember even the Watchtower is forced to explain it this way when they have to:
*** ip-1 chap. 19 p. 253 par. 21 Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre ***
“These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.
It's the WT Chronology that gives Babylon 86 to 93 years. 70 does NOT fit within that range. So it's only the NB timeline that fits the Bible here, not the WT timeline.
Nebuchadnezzar's missing years, you claim are not there, and yet I just showed you how the Bible's timeline gives Nebuchadnezzar only the same 43 years that the NB timeline gives. So if you can't find the 7 years in Nebuchadnezzar's 43 years, and want another 7 to 20, that's just you kicking against the Bible's goads here.
And the 20 year gap in the timeline? There is no 20 year gap in the Bible's timeline, or in the NB timeline. The gap is only in the Watchtower's timeline.

You are relying on Josephus who apparently couldn't make up his mind whether it was 50 years or 70 years of desolation after Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year? Where did Jeremiah say there would be 70 years of complete desolation. These desolations/exiles/deportations/desecrations were obviously happening all throughout the 70 years, until Cyrus.
If the Bible doesn't say there was exactly 70 years of "land completely desolate" then why do you need to add that to the Bible? The Bible associates the fact of these 70 years of desolations, etc., with the fact that Babylon would be given 70 years of dominance/hegemony.
(Jeremiah 25:11, 12) . . .And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’ 12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.
In what way did "these nations" serve the king of Babylon for 70 years if you claim that Babylon dominated these nations for 86 to 90 years? 
*** w88 2/1 p. 27 Part 1—Ancient Egypt—First of the Great World Powers ***
Pharaoh Necho marched northward about 629 B.C.E. to intercept the armies of the upcoming third world power, Babylon. The Bible says that Josiah of Jerusalem unwisely tried to stop the Egyptian forces at Megiddo and was defeated and killed. (2 Chronicles 35:20-24) About four years later, in 625 B.C.E., Pharaoh Necho himself was defeated by the Babylonians at Carchemish. Both the Bible and the Babylonian Chronicles refer to this event, which gave the Babylonians mastery over western Asia.
The difference between 629 BCE and 539 BCE is 90 years, not 70.
The Watchtower chronology rejects the Bible's 70-year limit on Babylonian hegemony. I prefer the Bible chronology here, not the Watchtower's chronology. Besides the Watchtower's chronology is a broken cable. They have a series of disconnected events but they can't say at all who were the kings, nor the lengths of their reigns from this made up date of 607 for NEB18 on up to CYRUS' first year. It's clear that the WTS just made it up without evidence.
Also the WTS publications cannot create this pseudo-chronology without contradicting themselves:
*** INSIGHT-1 p. 463 Chronology ***
The Bible prophecy does not allow for the application of the 70-year period to any time other than that between the desolation of Judah, accompanying Jerusalem’s destruction, and the return of the Jewish exiles to their homeland as a result of Cyrus’ decree. It clearly specifies that the 70 years would be years of devastation of the land of Judah.
Turns out that this idea that it could only apply to the land of Judah, turns out to be false, of course, by the WTS's own admission!! When Jeremiah 25 is considered more closely, the writer recognized that the above statement was false, that "these nations" must have included ALL the nations around who were under the domination of Babylon for their 70 years:
*** ip-1 chap. 19 p. 253 par. 21 Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre ***
He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.
And why are you so sure that you can impose a specific meaning on the words "desolate" when the same prophecies say that Babylon itself would become a desolate wasteland for all time. Has that happened yet? I'll repeat the quote form Jeremiah, but this time pay attention to the last sentence:
(Jeremiah 25:11, 12) . . .And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’ 12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.

You keep showing your "cards" which is why it is so easy to see the reason you keep bluffing.
If it goes against 1914, it doesn't matter how strong that cable of chronology is, it's the Devil's work!
That's it in a nut-shell and in a nuts-hell, isn't it?
So. I'll give in and discuss the Watchtower chronology, not just the secular chronology here. (What will follow after this post however will likely show why I didn't want this to be a Biblical discussion yet.)
It turns out that the NB Chronology supports the Bible's version of events very well. The Bible says that Babylon would be dominant in the region for 70 years, and the Bible was right. The Bible is saying that all these exiles (deportations) would be associated with those 70 years. And yes, there was an important exile when Jerusalem was destroyed, and another bigger one 10 years prior to that, and another one almost as big 5 years after that date, and likely another one around 20 years before that date. The last reported exile of Jews from the land was in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, yet the Watchtower publications are forced to make claims that ignore this one, and are therefore are not supported in the Bible:
*** it-1 p. 463 Chronology ***
Jerusalem came under final siege in Zedekiah’s 9th year (609 B.C.E.), and the city fell in his 11th year (607 B.C.E.), corresponding to Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year of actual rule (counting from his accession year in 625 B.C.E.). (2Ki 25:1-8) In the fifth month of that year (the month of Ab, corresponding to parts of July and August) the city was set afire, the walls were pulled down, and the majority of the people were led off into exile. However, “some of the lowly people of the land” were allowed to remain, and these did so until the assassination of Gedaliah, Nebuchadnezzar’s appointee, whereupon they fled into Egypt, finally leaving Judah completely desolate. (2Ki 25:9-12, 22-26) This was in the seventh month, Ethanim (or Tishri, corresponding to parts of September and October). Hence the count of the 70 years of desolation must have begun about October 1, 607 B.C.E., ending in 537 B.C.E. By the seventh month of this latter year the first repatriated Jews arrived back in Judah, 70 years from the start of the full desolation of the land.
The idea that Judah was completely desolate when Jerusalem was destroyed is contradicted by the fact that the land could not have been fully desolated until at least the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar . Almost as many were taken in the 23rd year as the 18th year:
(Jeremiah 52:28-30) . . .These are the people whom Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar took into exile: in the seventh year, 3,023 Jews. 29 In the 18th year of Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, 832 people were taken from Jerusalem. 30 In the 23rd year of Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, Neb·uʹzar·adʹan the chief of the guard took Jews into exile, 745 people. In all, 4,600 people were taken into exile.
So we can either accept the Bible chronology which doesn't begin the final desolation of the land until at least NEB23, or we can accept the WT chronology which puts the full desolation of the land in NEB18 (or NEB19 if counting from accession year). Personally, it makes no difference to me which Julian or Gregorian dates that scholars and Christendom and the WTS have put on these events. For me the choice is between the Bible chronology and the Watchtower chronology here. The secular chronology just happens to fit the Bible chronology, but that isn't necessarily so important. In fact this difference of a few years doesn't matter, as long as the WT is not insistent that the mistakes that got it to this point were somehow divinely guided. 
There are actually very, very few areas where I find I must conscientiously choose between the Watchtower and the Bible, but this is one. Another area where I have to accept the Bible account over the WT account is the idea that Jesus was given more authority in 1914 than he had when he claimed all authority in heaven and on earth. I prefer to believe what Paul said about Jesus ruling as king from God's right hand in the first century. (1 Cor 15:25)
It's a simple choice for my own conscience here again: Bible chronology or Watchtower chronology? I find that I can remain a Witness and still advocate for the Bible on these points, although not in the congregation where it would cause unnecessary divisions and contentions. But that is just my own conscience. Some might think it's important enough to advocate within the congregation, but I see this as giving too much attention to false stories and genealogies:
(1 Timothy 1:4) . . .nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith.
I'm not imposing my conscience on anyone else, although I am glad to give an account of my reasons:
(1 Peter 3:15) . . .always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have. . .

Yes. Just like  Bible commentators all over Judaism and Christendom.  But especially 19th century preachers and  Second Adventists who wanted to overcome Jesus' words that no one knows the day or the hour.

Daniel didn't understand 1914 CE.
Jon don't understand 1914.
But Cameron are able to explain all with Bible. 
Did i said Bible? I meant, with WTJWorg publication. I must be dummy too:))
On what arguments Cameron based interpretation? Let see.
1. But now, in our time, we can understand them more fully.
2. So these prophecies would only be understood much later, during “the time of the end.” And as we will soon discuss in our Bible study, all evidence indicates that we are now living in that time period.
3. In a nutshell, this prophecy has two fulfillments.
 
I don’t think it’s as "convincing" today as it was when we were young and full of "Bible enthusiasm". First to mention is GB confession that their interpretations of the Bible are full of misconceptions , and that their interpretations came through wrong methods (beliefs clarified). So much about GB ability to understand.
Second, WW1 is best "proof" that WTJWorg have (after 1914 fiasco when they expected Armageddon in that year) evidence that humankind living in time of end. Despite Jesus' warning to not be mislead with, You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. 
Third, Type and Anti Type model or Second (Third) Fulfillment is claim without real foundation, and belong to "wrong methods".