Srecko Sostar

In ex-YU some of people who listened JW preaching used to say how Jesus was first communist.  
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophical, social, political, economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state.[5][6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

I am not "commanding" neither God nor GB, nor JW's.
"condemn" - to criticize something or someone strongly, usually for moral reasons: -https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/condemn
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God? 
I am not "demanding" nothing from you, JW's or God. And i would add, i don't expecting nothing from all of you. And as you say God is God. Who am i to demand or expect that God have to adjust His act with my feelings and thoughts?
:))

My wife’s grandfather was born in Zagreb. My son went to Serbia to “find his roots.” He fell in love with the people, and eventually moved there. “You have to be careful in accepting their hospitality,” he says, “becasue they will give you what they don’t have.” He also confirms what you have said about Tito.

In communist YU under Tito (the "best" communism of all types that was mentioned here :)), there was saying: You can not pay me so little, how little work I can do

I should have probably put this in the religious part of the forum. But I don't think any moderator/admin needs to move it. It's also appropriate that religion has come up, because religion has actually been one of the motivations behind much of the propaganda: Buddhist, Muslim, Falun Gong, Fundamentalist, Christian/JW, etc.
It turns out that we are often so steeped in Western propaganda that the very idea seems ludicrous or confusing or dishonest that someone could say that China might not be as bad as it's claimed to be. Without researching the evidence, we might not be aware of just how gullible we've been. From an ethical or religious perspective we might not realize just how judgmental, unsympathetic and unloving we have been. Or how we may not even realize that we have begun to take sides in a political ideology without realizing it. Many people think they are politically neutral, but will quickly put the "inhuman/devilish" label on countries that the West tells them to, but without thinking about the West's motivation for creating those prejudices. There are many more than two, but even if there were only two major sides of today's political spectrums, and all sides were "devilish" to a similar degree, then what is our own motivation for focusing much more on the sins of one of those sides, and less focus on the others? That's not neutrality at all.
Also, if we don't know something for a fact, we might end up just repeating the lies that we accept from sources with their own agenda. This can be innocent, but repeating lies can be damaging and unloving to others. And some of what we repeat will no doubt be true and factual, but we should check our motivation for why we would repeat certain one-sided "facts" and not others. As far as it is possible for us, we should love our enemies and be peaceable with all. We should therefore be careful when we repeat claims as facts that could be only partly true, or even outrageously false. 
This might be a good example of taking sides, and not showing neutrality. Is it really just communism (and atheist philosophy) that has killed millions as part of a devious process by Satan to replace hope in God's kingdom? Were those nations of Christendom who also killed millions somehow not part of a devious process by Satan to replace hope in God's kingdom? And does this lack of neutrality affect how easily we will accept and repeat just about any number of atrocities that the West has told us to believe about China (and Russia, too)?
Of course, we could argue that if those numbers are true, then it makes a fair point about human government versus God's kingdom as the replacement for those governments. But what if it turns out that the Western governments who promote those numbers, actually had the same, or even much worse numbers than the actual numbers of atrocities attached to Mao and Stalin? Then would it still be fair to single out China and Russia?
Naturally, this will look like a defense of China. I don't care if it looks that way. I just want to have a better sense of the evidence to make sure than when I repeat someone's claims, that I am not just repeating lies and propaganda.

Absolutely true.
Absolutely false.
This isn't about US newspapers. It's about facts on the ground. It's also about researching facts, opinions, perspectives, ideologies, propaganda, etc. This can come from hundreds, if not thousands of journalists (and other sources) from many different countries who have been able to get information out of China. One needs to compare the perspectives of those who love China, hate China, and those who are neutral, or at least somewhere in between. One needs to consider the opinions and evidence of those who live in the many various parts of China, both Chinese (many ethnic varieties) and non-Chinese. One needs to consider the opinions and evidence of those who study China from both the inside and the outside. Ones who have left China, ones who have gone back, ones who will never go back, etc.
You can't just get your information from newspapers. Learning about China is a huge project that requires even the most unlikely sources. You have to especially consider what people will admit being surprised about because it goes against their general ideology, and they look for ways to explain it, or (more rarely) adjust their ideology. You should also look at documents about planned propaganda from various sides that was not meant to be leaked to the public. (Also watch out for supposedly secret documents that were planned to be leaked to the public.)
This is not about Russia. I have often found that people who need to hang on to a specific political and/or religious ideology will tend to believe almost anything they hear that fits their world view, and will tend to dismiss any evidence that threatens their religious or political ideology. They often give themselves away by making it a religious issue.
Did I mention that they often give themselves away by making it a religious issue? It's very easy to fall for propaganda from anywhere, and all nations are guilty of producing propaganda. This should be about facts and evidence.
It's very easy to make outrageous claims when no one requires evidence.
Evidence?
It's almost the opposite. China is actually famous for NOT engaging in these common practices of the U.S. and other Western countries. China has also been quick to completely relieve countries of their debts.
Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You shouldn't get the impression that revealing facts and evidence that tends to defend an entity or government somehow makes that entity or government automatically good or right in the eyes of the person providing the evidence. Just because a certain government might turn out to be better than they have been previously presented, doesn't mean that this certain government is everything it claims to be.
Even if a certain type of government typically tends to do more for the poorer classes, and tends to equalize the difference between upper echelons and the poor, it doesn't mean that this problem is actually solved. But dismissing evidence just because one thinks that accepting it would endanger their Christian and/or Western world view is not even necessary.
There is another way in which Biblical/Christian values are highlighted even among atheistic nations that try to do more for the poorer classes. For example, a country with whatever good or bad motivations, might find ways to reduce overall poverty without the expected damaging effects on its overall economy. One immediately sees elites of the world going into "damage control" by producing the worst or the most devious types of propaganda. Economic sabotage and interference will immediately be put in place against countries that nationalize resources where previously a Western-propped puppet dictator could be counted on to help the West steal (or control) those resources. This propaganda often plays on prejudices against poorer classes by race or ethnicity and darker skin colors. This has been played out in Hong Kong, Bolivia, El Salvador, Venezuela, and dozens of other places.
The world works on greed, favoritism, prejudice, class warfare, oppression of strong over weak, rich over poor. This is nothing new:
(James 2:6) . . .But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you and drag you before law courts?
Some of the "richest" countries in the world in terms of resources have been purposely turned into the poorest in the world:
(Proverbs 13:23) . . .The plowed field of the poor yields much food, But it may be swept away by injustice.
At any rate, although this was not in a religious portion of the forum, I'm glad you responded, because it is good to begin to distinguish how certain ideas may come from prejudice and religious or ideological propaganda, and certain ideas may come from evidence and facts on the ground.

As i can recall Bible text, God has never forbidden people to express to him their questions, feelings, dilemmas, anger, disappointments, irrationality or their madness,  ...etc. 
Well, conclusion is obvious. You are not entitled to forbid or judge things which God allows people. :))

Jehovah's Witnesses had 'disowned' 27-year-old, found dead in Bristol park after wife's UK residency rejected, inquest hears.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/jehovahs-witnesses-disowned-27-year-4370866
Lewis Marshall, 27, of High Street in Wells, died on Sunday November 24, 2019 after he hanged himself at St James Park in Bristol.
A heartbroken man struggled to cope after his American wife was unable to secure UK residency, an inquest heard.
Ms Marsh added her son was "disowned" by the Jehovah Witness fellowship due to his smoking and drinking and erratic behaviour. Mr Marshall had been in Bristol at the time of his death to attend a Jehovah's Witness convention.
lan Tabram, Mr Marshall's dedicated care co-ordinator, said Mr Marshall "felt marginalised" by being defellowshipped by Jehovah's Witness and felt "rejected" when he attended a Jehovah's Witness convention in Exeter.
 
 

Child Sexual Abuse, Victim needs TWO Witnesses to accuse a Paedophile adult JW
Woman gets sexually abused or raped, Elders disfellowship her for fornication with no witnesses 
So where is the justice and love and mercy in either case ? 

Article quote:
A new Supreme Court ruling that Jehovah’s Witnesses are free to banish and shun any member they wish, regardless of how they decide to do it, offers a powerful precedent for religious independence in Canada.
I would like to direct your attention how Court in Canada confirmed what WT lawyer David Gnam in UK tried to hide: JW's shun any member they wish. WT lawyer claimed before Court how: Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”.   But this Court in Canada told The Truth, JW's not only using word shun, but have all rights to practice shunning over members (or ex members) they wish. - 
WTJWorg are so satisfied to use double measures in various court cases, and have no problem about own hypocrisy. Shameful! 
Article continue:
The top court’s decision rejects that view, bluntly refers to his “sinful” behaviour, and says it has no business making legal decisions about it. At issue were two episodes of drunkenness, one in which Wall “verbally abused” his wife, for which he was not “sufficiently repentant,” according to court records.
I don't clearly see how two episodes of drunkenness, one in which Wall “verbally abused” his wife is not something that can be  interesting to police or social  service or some other civil service in state. Drunkenness and abusing other people is something that is punishable in most countries. In his case somebody reported him to JW elders and not to secular authority for his "sinful behavior". If JW church have right, according to Canadian Supreme Court, to make decisions how they will "punish" "sinful behavior" of member, what is that different when some other church doing same according to their "religious beliefs", because as article say: But the Supreme Court has now said once and for all that the courts ought not to interfere in religious discipline.
Well, what is this different to "religious discipline", for example, to cut hand of thief or to stone adulteress because of  their "sin" -The top court’s decision rejects that view, bluntly refers to his “sinful” behaviour, and says it has no business making legal decisions about it. 
But all "civilized world" looks with disapproval when this sort of punishment is common practice in some societies. :))

Don’t forget that most of the problems and injustices were done by those people who used God’s Word to “get others in order”. Self-righteous and zealous, always ready to trow "first stone".
 

Its effect can lead to one's destruction.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/jehovahs-witnesses-disowned-27-year-4370866
 

Quote @JW Insider Within that context, of people falsely interpreting signs, making false predictions, making false claims about their knowledge, falsely claiming to be the Messiah themselves, or even many claiming that Jesus is the Messiah but that only they can lead disciples to him with true knowledge only they know about.
I can seriously relate this to the Governing Body and the Watchtower / CCJW. 
falsely interpreting signs = Signs of the times of the end
making false predictions = The 1960's through 1975. And even now 'We are living in the Final part of the Final day'
making false claims about their knowledge, = GB calling themselves the Faithful & Discreet Slave.
but that only they can lead disciples to him = You have to be a Baptised JW to be saved. 

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of his glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.  Matt 19:28
There is no way they could “judge the twelve tribes of Israel” - the anointed, who lived throughout a 2,000 year period, unless they were in heaven with Christ.
1 Cor 6:3 – “Don't you know that we will judge angels -- how much more matters of this life?”
Eph 2:26 – “He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus”

I don't think any Witness would expect to see this change happen when one of the anointed dies. And no one expects to see any who live until the parousia change until a time just a bit prior to Armageddon when the remaining ones of the Bride are expected to join Christ in heaven, and be able to participate in "judging the nations."
That's because there is a tiny loophole in 1 Thess. 4:15-17
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)  For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death;16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
The NLT puts it like this:
We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[fn]
It seems quite obvious that Paul was trying to comfort those who knew fellow Christians who had died. One might naturally assume that if some (Group A-"alive") survived to see the parousia begin, then those who had previously died (Group B-"buried") would have to wait untii the resurrection occurred after the parousia was over. So Paul said to comfort those with dead loved ones that those dead (Group B) would not miss out on anything because just before the "rapture" at the parousia, the resurrection of those who had died would happen in time for them to see the parousia, so that they would all go to heaven at the same time with those who were "raptured" or "caught away" (Group A).
But the WT doctrine puts no emphasis on the closeness in timing of the resurrection and changing of the two groups. The only concern of the WT doctrine is that Group A does not precede Group B. Group A could ascend 106 or more years after Group B was resurrected. Persons in Group A would not even need their lives to overlap with persons in Group B. The WT doctrine must posit a new group, Group C, who die throughout the 106+ years of an elongated parousia, and are changed upon death, dying "during" the parousia. Paul didn't need to have a Group C, because he apparently thought of the parousia as affecting Group A and Group B at almost exactly the same time.

Yes. It looks like this matches up best with the scriptures. I think that "synteleia" and "parousia" refer to the same time period. Synteleia can refer to the end of many things together, similar to a phrase that Peter used when he said "the end of all things has drawn close." Note the plural:
(1 Peter 4:7) . . .But the end of all things has drawn close.. . .
(1 Corinthians 10:11) . . .a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.
We sometimes think of this as only referring to an end of a time period, but the word can refer more to a "destruction" of things that brings them to their end. Therefore the phrase in Matthew 24:3 could even be stated as:
What can you give us as an advance warning sign before this "Visitation" and this destructive "End of the Age?"
This is the current WT view on it, of course. (I have scrunched up your comment to fit in the re-quote box.)
There are a few issues with it, which is why it comes up. #1 is right of course, but it ignores the fact that this is only the first step in gaining proper subjects for a "Kingdom." The scriptures make so much of the fact that Jesus has been given ALL AUTHORITY at his resurrection. He has conquered something that makes him above all other powers in the Universe except Jehovah. He is called king of kings after 33 CE. So why are we so reluctant to give Jesus credit for what he has accomplished? Note how the WT view is the REVERSE of the Bible's view here:
(Ephesians 1:19-22) . . .It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come. 22 He also subjected all things under his feet and made him head over all things with regard to the congregation,
In the WT view, Jesus is made head over all things with regard to the congregation for now, but by 1914 he will also come into his Kingdom authority with regards to every government [kingdom], authority and power and lordship.
And as you know, Ephesians 1 is only one example of this. There are several others. Including 1 Timothy 6:16 already calling Jesus the "king of kings" in the first century. The Bible writers honored Jesus new position of authority over all governments of the earth, and all powers and lorships in heaven, too!
*** it-1 p. 1136 Honor ***
Since it was Jehovah God who highly exalted his Son, all who refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the immortal King of kings and Lord of lords dishonor the Father. Because of who he is and what he has accomplished, the Son deserves honor and loyal support. (Joh 5:23; 1Ti 6:15, 16; Re 5:11-13)
But,can you imagine the Watchtower ever highlighting the fact that Jesus was "king of kings" in the first century? Instead we get statements like the following:
*** w94 5/1 p. 17 par. 9 Kingdom Proclaimers Active in All the Earth ***
At the second Cedar Point convention, in 1922, Brother Rutherford highlighted the fact that at the end of the Gentile Times, in 1914, ‘the King of glory had taken unto himself his great power and had begun to reign.’ Next, he put the issue squarely to his audience, saying: “Do you believe that the King of glory has begun his reign? Then back to the field, O ye sons of the most high God! . . . Herald the message far and wide. The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of all days. Behold, the King reigns! You are his publicity agents.”
Yes, in 1922, Rutherford began to speak of Jesus taking his power in 1914 as King, and cleansing the lips of the temple class, and it appeared that this was the first time Rutheford began to move the official date of Christ's reign from 1878. And even quotes such as these must forget that the actual words at the assembly included statements like:
“In 1878 God’s favor was withdrawn from the nominal systems. From that time on Brother Russell and the brethren who supported him went throughout the land . . . . Do you believe it? Do you believe that the King of glory is present, and has been since 1874? Do you believe that during that time he has conducted his harvest work? Do you believe that he has had during that time a faithful and wise servant [Russell] through whom he directed his work and the feeding of the household of faith? Do you believe that the Lord is now in his temple, judging the nations of earth? Do you believe that the King of glory has begun his reign?
“Then back to the field, O ye sons of the most high God! Gird on your armor! Be sober, be vigilant, be active, be brave. Be faithful and true witnesses for the Lord. Go forward in the fight until every vestige of Babylon lies desolate. Herald the message far and wide. The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of all days. Behold, the King reigns!
It's true that Jesus could already be king of kings since 33CE, and then some great event in the future may move his followers to speak as if his kingship has just been renewed in some power way: "Jesus has now taken unto himself his great power and had begun to reign." Just as the Psalmist could look at a new Temple, or a great victory and say that "Jehovah has become King." But nothing was seen in 1914 about Jesus taking his power and becoming king of kings. It took Rutherford nearly 10 years before he began moving that "kingship" date from 1878 to 1914. During 1914, Rutherford must have seen 1914 as a failure. After it passed, Russell even changed the end of the Gentile Times to 1915. Rutherford specifically admitted later that no one had discerned what had happened in 1914 or 1918.
The word "synteleia" itself (meaning the ending of things together) would not fit 1914. And "parousia" doesn't fit because Jesus only spoke of a very visible visitation for judgment, resurrections, and gathering the chosen ones. It's easy to claim it all happened invisibly, but it doesn't fit the scriptures. Even if parousia was being used in its most simple sense of an arrival and subsequent presence, there is nothing "invisible" about this particular visitation and presence. It would be like trying to claim that lightning is invisible.

All these decades in the Organization .... it has been constantly taught that the anointed began to be resurrected from 1914. And this as if they were all resurrected at the same time, and those who died after 1914 were also resurrected to life in heaven in moment of death. 
What was strange is Paul's words about "instantly change". No one in WTJWorg was never saw nothing like that from 1914 till today. Well, what really happened in 1914? Or any year before or after (Russell', Rutherford' etc. guessing)?
 
Because, no JW anointed was not affected by the "change", which should be "seen" on the living anointed, it can easily be concluded that we do not live in time of parousia or in time of "parousia's interpretations".
Once again, WT doctrines and interpretations are so problematic.

No. The parousia/advent was to be recognized by everyone, good and bad, righteous and unrighteous. There would be no mistaking it. It was not invisible.
When Jesus told the disciples that the buildings of the Temple would one day come tumbling down, the disciples immediately knew that this spectacular highly visible event was related to his parousia (visitation/advent/coming). They knew that the very term "parousia" was about the arrival of Jesus Christ in royal power, when the Kingdom of Israel was to be restored. We also know that the disciples had assumed that Jesus would somehow make this happen in his own lifetime and their own lifetime. When Jesus kept saying he would die first, they had trouble understanding.
So when they asked for a sign of his "parousia" and the "synteleia" [ending of things together] they were asking for some kind of advance warning so that they could find safety when their "world" came spectacularly crashing down around.
Jesus warned that some would be saying that Jesus had already arrived even though they couldn't see him at the moment. Jesus therefore warned against listening to anyone who might claim that an invisible parousia had already started. He said not to believe anyone who claimed he had returned but that no one could see him just yet, because the parousia would be like lightning, sudden and brightly visible from one horizon to the other horizon.
(Matthew 24:23-27) 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned you. 26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence [parousia] of the Son of man will be.
Around 1876, Nelson Barbour was telling Charles T. Russell and others: "Look! Here is the Christ." He thought he was going to come visibly like a flash of lightning, but now he believed Jesus was here but invisible. "He is present, but you can't see him. He is here, since October 1874, but effectively hidden in the inner rooms. Barbour and his friends were so anxious to be right about their prediction that Christ would arrive in October 1874, that they simply declared that he was here, even though he hadn't shown up.
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) . . .For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence [parousia] of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward [then] we the living who are surviving will, together with them [at the same time], be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air;. . .
The LEB translation, with full support of the Greek, translates like this:
(1 Thess 4:17, LEB) Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.
How could the "parousia" not be a visible spectacular event if persons from earth will be snatched away from earth to heaven at the same time as the resurrection to heaven?
The scriptures also tie the parousia directly to "the Lord's Day," "Judgment Day" as it were. There is no scripture that implies the parousia is separate from the "Lord's day," or "day of Jehovah" or "day of Christ." The separation is artificial so that the idea of an invisible parousia can be made to work.
Note in the very next verses after the mention of the parousia in 4:15-17 that Thessalonians goes immediately into stating:
(1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.
So the parousia is to be seen by those who will suffer sudden destruction, not just those who see with spiritual insight. Paul says the same thing in the second letter:
(2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
Notice that it is the parousia that is tied to "our being gathered together to him." But just as Jesus warned, we shouldn't be shaken or deceived by anyone making claims about this parousia as if it is already here, before it is obvious:
(2 Thessalonians 2:8) 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence [parousia].
Not just those with spiritual insight but the lawless one too is revealed by the manifestation of his parousia. It can't be invisible if it is going to be obvious to those without spiritual insight.
(Revelation 1:7) . . .Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. . . .
(1 Timothy 6:14) . . .observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(2 Timothy 4:1) 4 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom:
(2 Timothy 4:8) 8 From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation.
Translating the "active participle" as if only in the past, can be misleading. The Greek can just as well refer to his future manifestation and can be translated as follows, which is probably better considering the immediate context:
(2 Timothy 4:8, NET) Finally the crown of righteousness is reserved for me. The Lord, the righteous Judge, will award it to me in that day - and not to me only, but also to all who have set their affection on his appearing.
(Titus 2:12, 13) . . .It trains us to reject ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things, 13 while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ,
(1 Corinthians 1:7, 8 ) . . .while you are eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 8 He will also make you firm to the end so that you may be open to no accusation in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 1:7) . . .in order that the tested quality of your faith, of much greater value than gold that perishes despite its being tested by fire, may be found a cause for praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 4:13) . . .so that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during [at] the revelation of his glory.
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-2:1) . . .will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, . . .  10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, . . . 2 1 However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
(I know we already covered 2 Thess 2:1-2, but it is good to see it in context to more easily see that the parousia, revelation of the Lord Jesus, day of Jehovah, the time when he comes to be glorified, that day, etc., are all the same as the time of the visible revelation/manifestation.)
Also, our current parousia doctrine creates several minor contradictions. For example:
(James 5:7) . . .Be patient then, brothers, until the presence [parousia] of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until the early rain and the late rain arrive.
If the parousia had started in 1914, why would we only show patience UNTIL 1914. The same goes for Jesus saying he would be with us UNTIL the "synteleia." (Matt 28:20).  For example, Rutherford even claimed for many years that the holy spirit was no longer in operation with Rutherford or with the organization, because Jesus had already arrived by 1918, and the holy spirit was only there to fill in the gap until Jesus arrived.
The Bible never speaks of an "invisible" parousia, except to warn us against the idea.

Someone (not me, probably a moderator) moved the "PAROUSIA/ADVENT" portion of this topic to a new place. It was partly related to the 1,000 year reign topic, which will apparently stay here for now.
 

This statement is 100% spot-on truth. 
I think is started when the Supreme Court decided $ = Speech and that a corporation is a person and hence illegal to curb the corporate "free speech" 20 some years ago.
 

By now, most people have heard about the "Weeger" issues in China. There are supposedly concentration camps, torture camps, medical experiments, thousands imprisoned, etc. When someone changed thousands to "for all we know, there might even be millions" the new number changed to "millions" without Western media even batting an eyelash. 
So here's an opinion about it, which focuses on Xinjiang Province (also known as the “Uyghur Autonomous Region”)...

There’s a lot of background to this, but the basic problem is geopolitical: The US wants to sabotage the growth of China as a world power in favor of the Western model of capitalism and imperialism.

What imperialist Western elites see as China’s weakest links are its new Belt & Road Initiative (BRI: an infrastructure project to expand high-speed rail, telecommunications, and both dirty and renewable energy worldwide) and its relations with other Asian and Muslim countries (which are increasingly friendly). There has been a “New Cold War” against China since Obama’s/Hillary’s “Pivot to Asia” strategy (of which the TPP and the deployment of THAAD in Korea were a part), but especially renewed now since Trump’s propaganda and trade war. China is threatened by HUNDREDS of US military bases and nukes surrounding it (and Russia, Iran, etc.)!

The basis for the propaganda has always existed, of course: “Tiananmen Square was a heartless massacre proving the unpopularity of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP),” “Hong Kong is being brutalized by Beijing,” “China is genociding Tibet,” and so on. I think most of these issues are lies — completely fabricated — or distortions of reality not presenting the whole story. The CCP, for example, is one of the most (perhaps THE most) popular political parties in the world, which hilariously perplexes international polling agencies and Harvard researchers time and time again.

[See “Understanding CCP Resilience” by Harvard University. The writing is biased, but the researchers are forced to admit the fact that the Chinese people — and particularly underprivileged minorities — are in love with the Party.]

This claim — “China is genociding Muslims” — is no different. The “1 million Uyghurs in concentration camps” and “forced to eat pork” are complete fabrications. They were alleged by one US official, and then some Western diplomats went along with it. Most of the recent “reports” and “statistics” (which extrapolated numbers to ALL of Xinjiang from a localized study!) originate from US-funded think-tanks, usually involving a man named Adrian Zenz. Zenz is a right-wing Christian fundamentalist who believes that he has been “led by God” against the unspeakable evil of China. In Western media, when they write “reports show” such and such, find their source; it’s typically Adrian Zenz.

[See: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/ ]

It has not merited an official statement by the UN. In fact, nearly every Muslim-majority country has praised China’s response to the rise of Islamic extremism and terrorism in Xinjiang Province.

Speaking of which, how did this extremism arise in the first place? One answer is poverty and lack of adequate education. The other is the promotion and funding of Jihadist terrorist groups by the US and the West since the 1980s, first against the Soviet Union, and then again recently in Afghanistan, Pakistan, former Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Libya, and China — all of which have sizable Muslim populations. This includes some fundamentalist propaganda and especially weapons from U.S. allies in Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia (but which are now beginning to move closer to China).

Everybody knows the history, how Obama expanded the wars into Syria and Libya by arming Jihadists, how Hillary admitted we aided Al-Qaeda, and how, going back even further, the New York Times praised Osama bin Laden himself on the cover as our “freedom fighter.” We also don’t need to review the aftermath. We all know how devastating it was, how many millions lost their lives due to the civil wars and US bombs. We also know how many lies we were told, about “weapons of mass destruction” and “chemical warfare.”

China responded to Islamic extremism in Xinjiang Province — which shares borders with Pakistan, India, etc. — through poverty alleviation, education centers, and arrest/punishment for crimes (such as stabbing) or possessing incriminating materials (propaganda, knives, etc.). Most Muslim countries believed this response to be unprecedentedly good. Pakistan went so far as to say that this should be the “model for antiterrorism.”

[See also: https://medium.com/@leohezhao/xinjiang-facts-vs-fiction-bdc2aa403c91 ]

Another thing to research (with a skeptical eye of course) is the 2009 Urumqi Riots in China. These incidents, in which many ethnically Han Chinese people were arrested for retaliating against Muslim violence in Xinjiang, were ugly and brutal, and scarred the CCP and all the peoples of China, especially Muslims. Many Uyghurs also fled China to fight alongside ISIS and Al-Nusra “rebels” (Al-Qaeda) in Syria. This is well-documented! And these are typically the Uyghurs quoted in explosive “news reports” crying “My husband was murdered!!!”

Some more facts: China has built thousands of mosques, both within China and throughout the Middle East and Africa. How can this be explained? The Uyghur population has nearly DOUBLED since 1990, as minority ethnic groups (like them) are guaranteed certain privileges and exemptions by the Chinese Constitution in order to (as the party states) “combat Han chauvinism.” How is this possible if they are being “genocided”? Road signs and schools use Arabic and Uyghur scripts along with Chinese. Many Chinese and Uyghurs intermarry! Do those sound like “genocide”?

In short, there’s a real propaganda campaign ramping up. It’s very possible (and very stupid) that a war with China is brewing. The illegal actions against Huawei (the world leader in 5G technology) are yet another example. Unfortunately, our entire social media experience from the top-down is manipulated by elites, the ones who own it and all the other media we consume.

It is extremely tempting to fall into peer pressure these days and deny real research about this issue because it makes one look like a "genocide denier." Revealing what the research shows makes one seem "evil" for not following what others think. And that is exactly how propaganda works in the modern age, all while the details and research required to become informed are increasingly in the hands of mega-monopolies like Google and CNN.
Sometimes, one can learn from the mistakes of these same media companies, too. Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube can quickly ban someone who get complaints against them for showing evidence that goes against Western propaganda. SkyNews just ran a story about claimed Uyghur torture, and they used footage of prisoners in blindfolds. Embarrassingly, it turned out to be SkyNews' own footage from a few years earlier of a prisoner transfer of Han Chinese, not Uyghurs. It had nothing to do with torture, or Muslims. (Blindfolding prisoners during transfers is common practice in many countries.) The original report knew this, but the footage was re-used to fit Western propaganda. There have been many such examples. Another time it was footage of the U.S. capturing Muslims that had nothing to do with China or Uyghurs. Another time it was footage from Thailand or Indonesia repurposed to supposedly show Muslim Uyghurs in China. People have pointed out mistakes in claiming certain persons were Uyghurs just because they looked like they were wearing Muslim garb, which turned out to be a style from Muslims unique to other countries.

Best person to ask is the @The Librarian !

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."  Acts 17:11
Have you done this?  I have.  I do not swallow down anyone's teachings any longer, without using the scriptures to verify if that person's teachings are true.  
Allen, just as your identities on here are many, yet you deny their existence, your leaders deny the existence of their own lies.  And you continue to follow them; which shows that birds of a feather, flock together - whether in truth, or in lies.  

Revelation only gives one account of the appearance of Gog and Magog.  Geoffrey Jackson says this happens during Armageddon.  That means, it cannot happen after Armageddon and into the Kingdom of God. Gog and Magog do not appear twice.  So, he has made up his own narrative by saying another "test" will arrive after Armageddon.  And all JWs should be challenging his teaching.
 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water." 1 Pet 3:18-20
or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”  Rom 10:7
 “For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell (“Tartarus”)  and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly”   2 Pet 2:4-5
αρταρόω tartaróō, tar-tar-o'-o; from Τάρταρος Tártaros (the deepest abyss of Hades)
“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.”  Rev 20:1-3
“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison”  Rev 20:7
They are one in the same.   
You must be suffering some confusion about "hell" being translated as "Tartarus", since your doctrine says, it is the "common grave of mankind".  When Jesus died, he was in the abyss as Paul brought out - the "bottomless pit" of darkness.
Wow. To think that a God of love is the source of wicked testing.  
 
God is not the source of testing.  Remember, he warned Adam and Eve about resisting the “forbidden fruit”.  He gave them free will to choose.  It is Satan who desires to destroy all life, who is the source of our tests.  He was that “tree of knowledge.”
“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He himself tempts no one.”  James 1:13
 
Since God always warns us of impending disaster for our actions, in your “thousand years” to come, will He warn you of Satan’s deceitful “test” that you will face?  Since you believe this test will arrive long into the Kingdom, then there should be warning about its happening.  I only see warning in the scriptures about Satan's final test happening now.
Should I call you a false teacher for saying that God is the source of our testing?  Well, that's debatable.  I know you are influenced by false teachers, but as Jesus warns all of us - 
"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”  Matt 12:37
 
 
 
 

You never did any research on the meaning of Hades, Sheol, and the abyss.  You are satisfied in believing what men tell you without solid scriptural proof.  That is voluntary blindness, Arauna.  
Again, who was in the abyss when Jesus preached to them after his physical death?  They were spirits who had sinned, who were “in prison” or bound in the abyss; and spiritually “dead” in their trespasses, just as a physical person can be “dead”, living in their sins.  (1 Pet 3:19,20; Jude 1:6; Eph 2:1)
The chains that Satan was bound with, were spiritual chains that veiled his perceptive thought process.  He was prevented from misleading the anointed with deceit. That’s what it’s all about, Arauna; it is the war against Christ’s seed and the seed of Satan, culminating in Armageddon. Gen 3:15
Why would this war re-surge once again after Armageddon?  Armageddon settles it, once and for all.  (Joel 3)  
The restriction placed on Satan's thought process, changed when he was released from “not perceiving” how to accomplish destroying the anointed.  But he was still able to cause trouble to the rest of the world while in this mental restricted state.  To the anointed who lived during his time of “not perceiving”, Satan could test them as he demanded that they be.  Yet Jesus said to the faithful,  
“I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.”  Luke 10:19
It doesn’t mean that they had to let down their guard against him.  Maintaining their faith took constant alertness.  And, through their faith, they were not taken “captive by empty philosophy”.  Col 1:18
But they didn't experience a sweeping form of deception - a plan, that captured all anointed into once place – the organization.   (Rev 13:10)
And another "again"; what is released from the abyss that your deceiving organization terms as the anointed ones?  Yet in Joel 2 they call an army that comes against God's people?  It is the locust-scorpions, who persecute “those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads”.  (Rev 9:4; 7:4)  
Why would the anointed priesthood persecute their own brothers in Christ?  They are the ones who receive a “seal of God” on their foreheads, but only if found refined and faithful.  Can they allow false teachings to settle in their heart and still receive the seal of God? No.  Can they receive not only God’ seal, but the seal of an organization – a deceptive Beast that gladly shuts up all dissenters by judgment as “dead”?  Rev 13:15  
What “tramples” the Temple of God?  The “man of lawlessness” that “sits”/rules over the anointed in the organization.  (2 Thess 2:3,4;  Rev 11:1,2) THEY are the locust-scorpions who have replaced God’ priesthood. They have allowed the enemy to overcome them.
"It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "  Rev 13:7
Yes, Satan is out, employing his greatest deception over God’s priesthood/saints/holy people, and all JWs, through the mouths of false prophets.  Rev 13:11,12; Rev 16:12-16  He was "abyssed" from instigating this plan on the last anointed in Christ, in the first century. That is when the symbolic "thousand years" began. 
There is no other deception to come, once this is settled.
The messenger God sends in Malachi 3, is to the “sons of Levi” – the Levitical priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9) They must be refined from their sins of idolatry toward an organization; of their ignorance of God’s Temple, and their rejection of Christ as their head by accepting instead, the headship of men who commit sin and all JWs tolerate it.
" He will act like a refiner and a purifier of silver. He will purify Levi’s sons and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will bring acceptable offerings to the Lord. 4 The offerings from Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the past, as in years long ago.
5 “I will come to judge you. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers, lying witnesses, and those who cheat workers out of their wages and oppress widows and orphans. I will also testify against those who deprive foreigners of their rights. None of them fear me,” says the Lord of Armies."  Mal 3:3-5
It is true, in the organization of "peace and security", no one fears the judgement of God, to come upon  His people.  You believe it will be judgment against those on the outside, and not  where His anointed priesthood exists.     1 Thess 5:3
 
 
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2017/03/when-was-satan-and-demons-put-in-abyss.html