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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in What should we believe, what should we question, Bible Canon   
    @Kosonen  Thank you for your reply. However the plot deepens :-
    The Book of Acts or Acts of the Apostles.
    The NWT has it that the writing of  Acts was 'completed' c.61 
    However looking online I find this :-
    Acts was apparently written in Rome, perhaps between ad 70 and 90, though some think a slightly earlier date is also possible.
    And this :-
    Acts and the Gospel of Luke make up a two-part work, Luke–Acts, by the same anonymous author, usually dated to around 80–90 AD.
    So we already have questions as to When was the Acts of the Apostles written ? 
    This also leads to another question, one which i have raised before. 
    You have quoted Acts 17 v 11.
    " Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. "
    Now here's the rub. Exactly what 'scriptures' were they examining ? 
    Surely they only had the Hebrew writings ? A. Because not all the Greek writings had been written. B. Because the Greek writings that had been written would not yet have been gathered into a 'collection'.  
    One also wonders if the Apostles would have carried around a 'bundle of scrolls' to read from ? Or would only have had reference in synagogues where the copies of scrolls (Hebrew Scriptures) would have been kept. Hence :-
    Acts 17 v 10 
     Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Be·roeʹa. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
    ( I've always presumed that the Apostles spoke from memory whilst being inspired of God's Holy spirit. ) 
    This brings another question. Regarding Acts 17 v 11 " carefully examining the Scriptures daily "   Would the Bereans / Boreans / Beroeans  have had access to the Hebrew scrolls daily ?  Were the Synagogues left open for anyone to go into to examine the scrolls ?
    If the scrolls were guarded by the Jews, would Christians have had access ? 
     
  2. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What should we believe, what should we question, Bible Canon   
    You made excellent topic !
    "Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent."
    How much reasonable is to expect and believe that "uninspired" people made selection of "inspired" scriptures?
    How much is reasonable is to expect and believe that all these "gifts from spirit" described in Bible books, and in 1st century especially, are unique ONLY for past period. When Bible speaking about time when "miracle gifts" will stop and disappear why we conclude how that was stop in the long past (1st century), and will be again in a far future? (Or not so far, but before 1914 generation end, die :)) )
    And of course, what of writings are truly inspired by God, and what was just history (true or little made up)?
  3. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in What should we believe, what should we question, Bible Canon   
    What should we believe and what should we question ? What should we just accept and what should we research ? 
    How deep should we dig in order to find truth ? 
    How do we really know what TRUTH is ?
    Yes I'm asking serious questions and trying to dig very deeply
    THE BIBLE CANON.
    Now here is a lovely place to start digging. And here is a lovely place to ask ourselves, Should we just accept the Bible Canon as it is ?
    “Canon” is a Greek word meaning “rule” or “measuring stick.” So the Bible canon is the 'accepted' 66 writings that the Bible holds.
    Should we accept this canon or question it ? Do you know that many 'Bible scholars' did not and do not agree on the Bible canon ?
    140 C. E.  Marcion rejected the Old Testament, along with any writings that might reinforce views other than his own. He developed a list of books he considered acceptable: portions of the Gospel of Luke, ten of Paul’s letters, plus a letter purportedly from Paul to the Alexandrians. This list is known as the Marcion Canon.    After Marcion and Montanus, lists of New Testament books begin to appear. One of the first was The Muratorian Fragment. It was discovered among the Vatican’s sacred documents by historian Ludovico Antonio Muratori in 1740 and dates to about A.D. 190. The fragment is damaged. The portion we possess begins with “the third book of the Gospel is that according to Luke.” We assume the first and second Gospels to be Matthew and Mark. The fragment lists John, Acts, all of Paul’s letters, James, 1-2 John, Jude and the Revelation of John. It also includes the Revelation of Peter, the Wisdom of Solomon and (“to be used in private, but not public worship”) the Shepherd of Hermas.   In 367, Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, wrote an Easter letter that contained all twenty-seven books of our present New Testament. In 393 the Synod of Hippo affirmed our current New Testament, and in 397 the Council of Carthage published the same list.   But :-   In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent. Heretical movements were rising, each one choosing its own selected Scriptures, including such documents as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistle of Barnabas.   The Council of Carthage established the orthodox New Testament canon in 397 AD; it was upheld at the Council of Trent in 1545. By the way, Protestants and Catholics are in agreement with their use of the same New Testament. However, were any of those men true servants of God through Christ ?  Were they guided by God / Holy Spirit ? The scriptures talk about men entering into the 'congregation' / organisation that would mislead many and not act is a truthful way.     A small point but of interest, is in Paul's Letter to the Colossians Ch 4 v 16  "And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa. "   Here we read that Paul mentions his letter to the congregation of Laodicea, and a little bit of research will find this letter.  To the Laodiceans   1 Paul, an apostle not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, to the brethren who are of Laodicea. 2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.   20 And cause [this letter] to be read to the Colossians and that of the Colossians to you.   There is not much in the letter to Laodicea but, if the translation I've found is correct then it is one of Paul's letters. And it was important enough to Paul to mention in both letters Colossians and Laodiceans to read both to both congregations.   So, why is it not in the Bible canon ?    At this point i must thank @JW Insider for his work and for his giving me much information concerning other writings of 'Scripture' and history of Bible times. Thank you.    I was not aware, A, that so many other 'writings of scripture' had been written, B, that so many still exist and are available to read online.    But this poses a question. If we believe that God, through Holy Spirit, has kept 'His written word' 'alive' and available for all to read, then who has kept all those other 'writings of scripture' available for all to read ? and why ?   How much should we investigate and how much should we just accept ?    The Bible Canon is just a starting point. We could follow up with, Do we accept the translation we have or should we try to compare it to the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures ?  How close to the original Hebrew and Greek can we get ? What does God and Christ expect of us ? Do they expect us to dig deeper than just reading the translation of the Bible that we have ?   
  4. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    If WT is not able to control their own people behavior .....let them dfd all, all those who are out of control :)))))))
    Now, let us be serious. Systematic program of Elder Body Judicial Committee is to put people's (bad or not bad, question is open) behavior inside controlled boarders. Boarders are made by Bible Principles and by WT human rules. Sometimes they are in collision, but that is another issue. 
    It would be nice to see all those "clear instruction/s" about CSA issue from, as you said 50's to nowadays. I am sure how WT organization made few "clarification" about same issue because "light getting brighter" from day to day. Do you or some other people here have some time to show us documented "progress" or "invariable instructions" on this subject in that period of about 70 years? Articles, magazines, BOE and CO letters and other inside official and unofficial conversations of those who creating organizational policy. 
  5. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    If WT is not able to control their own people behavior .....let them dfd all, all those who are out of control :)))))))
    Now, let us be serious. Systematic program of Elder Body Judicial Committee is to put people's (bad or not bad, question is open) behavior inside controlled boarders. Boarders are made by Bible Principles and by WT human rules. Sometimes they are in collision, but that is another issue. 
    It would be nice to see all those "clear instruction/s" about CSA issue from, as you said 50's to nowadays. I am sure how WT organization made few "clarification" about same issue because "light getting brighter" from day to day. Do you or some other people here have some time to show us documented "progress" or "invariable instructions" on this subject in that period of about 70 years? Articles, magazines, BOE and CO letters and other inside official and unofficial conversations of those who creating organizational policy. 
  6. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Leander H. McNelly in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    The Watchtower has been giving clear instruction about child abuse since the 50s. It's up to the people to listen. Can you control the behavior of another? Don't just argue, use common sense, your logic is useless.
  7. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Isabella in Ed Sheeran - Perfect   
  8. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    It was said too harshly :)). Governments just "rowing" on their way to find truth and justice. Also, in meantime they giving "clarifications" and "instructions". :)) Is this "manipulation"? In the same way and purpose as WT JWorg doing to their members.
  9. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Forced to play??!! :)) 
    If i remembered well, this issue was explained by apostles in 1st century who gave role model of HOW NOT to BE FORCED by Secular Laws :)) ... But to be beaten and put in jail .. and they liked that, was happy for that.
    WT Lawyers don't want their Clients go to jail, prison or pay money.  
  10. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JJJ-AUSTRALIA in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    No worries pal, i never said Geoffrey jackson is hiding pedophiles i said he admitted there was a problem within the organization in regards of CSA which is pretty much the same to me but hey thats their problem to sort out, 
    I am not dishonest at all and thats why i dont have to make excuses to defend them... 👍 And thats the reason why i left the organization because of their dishonesty and i have said it to all my PIMI friends who have said in reply Jehovah will sort it out 🤣🤣🤣
    Anyways pal, like what the society used to say get out of her if you dont want to share in their sins.
    Wont waste my time talking to jwbuds good luck... 
  11. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    The ONLY thing that makes "due process" a fair process is the right of both the prosecution and the defense to cross examine all witnesses, and harangue the Truth out of we Earthlings ... big ugly bags of mostly water.
    It's a process based on adversaries and justice derived from trial by combat.
    Sheep get due process , but it is usually into mutton.
  12. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Well it certainly looks like the GB of CCJW and it's Lawyers are hiding the names and identities of Paedophiles in America, otherwise why don't they hand over the 23 years of Database with the Child Sexual Abuse accusations in ? Now surely if they handed over that Database to the Superior Authorities of America that would not be breaking any laws. It would still be in confidence even inside the offices of those  Superior Authorities. Then it would be the responsibility of those Authorities how they used the information. 
    'Give to the one asking, go the extra mile, when taken to court for your outer garment give your inner garment also' 
     
  13. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    We have to defined word "hiding". :))
    I guess how WT JWorg not hiding criminals, generally said. If they would or if they doing that, organization should be ban. 
    But WT, JWorg, CCJW and other under Mother Organization hiding own incapacity, ignorance, shame, incompetence, etc. They are ready to not give truth, all truth and nothing but the truth in this issue, and they are hiding exactly this. 
    They are hiding truth....and as result, sometimes that means they are hiding individuals who need to be prosecute. Prosecute if they are child molesters and prosecute if they not revealed this evidence, fact or if reasonable doubt about it exist.
  14. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JJJ-AUSTRALIA in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Because they have something to hide, if not they shouldn't be afraid of anything... 
  15. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Matthew 5 v 38 through 42.
    “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a 39  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.
    I think Jesus made it clear that those serving God properly should not resist the Authorities of the world. Those Superior Authorities are placed in their position by God. 
    “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.”—ROMANS 13:1.
    So why would JWs want to resist an investigation by the Superior Authorities if they have nothing to hide ? 
  16. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JJJ-AUSTRALIA in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Yeah i wonder why...  🤣🤣🤣
  17. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Nothing about this on  JW TV. 
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JJJ-AUSTRALIA in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    Nothing about this on  JW TV. 
  19. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?
    The last thing I heard was in 1999 in the Watchtower that it had changed that we were now allowed to follow our consciences, in voting quoted here:
    " Questions From Readers
    How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?
    There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself. For example, there is no reason why a board of directors should not take a vote in order to arrive at decisions affecting their corporation. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses often make decisions about meeting times and the use of congregation funds by voting with a show of hands.
    What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16) In making this personal decision, the Witnesses consider a number of factors.
    First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (John 17:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses take this principle seriously. Being “no part of the world,” they are neutral in the political affairs of the world.—John 18:36.
    Second, the apostle Paul referred to himself as an “ambassador” representing Christ to the people of his day. (Ephesians 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:20) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ Jesus is now the enthroned King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, and they, like ambassadors, must announce this to the nations. (Matthew 24:14; Revelation 11:15) Ambassadors are expected to be neutral and not to interfere in the internal affairs of the countries to which they are sent. As representatives of God’s heavenly Kingdom, Jehovah’s Witnesses feel a similar obligation not to interfere in the politics of the countries where they reside.
    A third factor to consider is that those who have a part in voting a person into office may become responsible for what he does. (Compare 1 Timothy 5:22, The New English Bible.) Christians have to consider carefully whether they want to shoulder that responsibility.
    Fourth, Jehovah’s Witnesses greatly value their Christian unity. (Colossians 3:14) When religions get involved in politics, the result is often division among their members. In imitation of Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid becoming involved in politics and thus maintain their Christian unity.—Matthew 12:25; John 6:15; 18:36, 37.
    Fifth and finally, their keeping out of politics gives Jehovah’s Witnesses freeness of speech to approach people of all political persuasions with the important message of the Kingdom.—Hebrews 10:35.
    In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah’s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator.
    The November 15, 1950, issue of The Watchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: “Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot.”
    What if a Christian woman’s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote? Well, she is subject to her husband, just as Christians are subject to the superior authorities. (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Peter 2:13-17) If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.—Compare Romans 14:4.
    What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision. “Each one will carry his own load.”—Galatians 6:5.
    There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12.
    Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: “You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me.”—Psalm 31:3."
    Now, all this is well and good .... but if a Brother's conscience will allow him to vote in national elections ... will he be chastised, sanctioned, or punished for the free exercise OF his conscience, by the CCJW ?
     
  20. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JJJ-AUSTRALIA in BRAZIL: WATCH TOWER CLAIM RAID ON PREMISES UNLAWFUL   
    The Watchtower is getting PROsecuted no PERsecuted all over the World. 
  21. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    It helps a LOT ... when the wicked people that God wants exterminated, have a LOT of valuable Real Estate.
  22. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in ECtHR upholds complaints of Azerbaijani Jehovah's Witnesses*   
    If memory serves, the predominate language inAzerbaijani is Russian. I am guessing that this is the first crack in the ice that has frozen JWs out of the Russian Federation, and as I have mentioned about four times earlier, the ice will thaw and JWs will be "reinstated" by Vladimir Putin before the end of 2020. 
    If that doesn't happen it's no big deal, as we (JWs) have never been right about ANY prediction, so I would have a really good excuse.
  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Hundreds of child abuse payments held up   
    Any ideas why Aus info' went back 50 years but American database only goes back 23 years ?
     
  24. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    My wife just fixed me some popcorn ... I think I will just sit back and watch this one ....
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    This remained me on common fact. World is full of "legalism" and courts making "legal" trials and decisions. Even JWorg has "legal system". But many times they all making wrongs and injustices.
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