Srecko Sostar

@Arauna Quote "We have more than enough reason to thank them for keeping us moral and awake! "
Those things you list that you have great knowledge of. You did not learn them from the GB or the JW Org.   So your personal 'keeping awake' is not because of your religion. 
And your religion, the JW Org is not in good standing with people of good morals and you know why. 
I admit to not having half the 'worldly' knowledge that you have, but I don't think i need all that knowledge, just to know that the world belongs to the devil and it is a wicked place. 
Unfortunately the religion you are part of has misused it's own knowledge to make false statements in the past. Hence many people no longer trust your religion and its leaders. Add to that, the CSA not being dealt with in a loving and honest way. Add to that the misuse of disfellowshipping and shunning at a time when people need mercy and love.  As the world becomes more wicked so does JW Org. instead of shining like a 'lamp on a lamp stand', the JW Org is being seen as part of this world.  
If, your religion JW Org, honestly believed that Armageddon is so close, then they would all be selling their homes, as they did in the 70's, and would be spending every hour in the ministry possible. None of you would be on here waffling away. You would all be in regular prayer and ministry. You would all be working together and sharing all possessions, just as they did in the first century. You would all see an urgency to preach and worship. 
But instead, you all sit in your nice homes, just as i do, and we waffle away on here. Where is your urgency if you believe the Judgement is so close ?   

@James Thomas Rook Jr. 
NWT Genesis 6 v 3 
Then Jehovah said: “My spirit will not tolerate man indefinitely,b because he is only flesh.* Accordingly, his days will amount to 120 years.”
NWT  Psalm 90 v 10
10  The span of our life is 70 years,Or 80 if one is especially strong.*But they are filled with trouble and sorrow;They quickly pass by, and away we fly. 
@TrueTomHarley Mr Harley, one good point about JW Org. Easy access to the Bible for reference when conversing on here. Though for personal use i do cross ref' it with others of course.
Psalm 90 v 10 
New King James Version
The days of our lives are seventy years; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Berean Study Bible
The length of our days is seventy years—or eighty if we are strong—yet their pride is but labor and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.

The Ten years was a misquote by @TrueTomHarley the story teller. He loves to tell stories and to mock others by misquoting them.
I actually said originally that Judgement day would probably be 10 years away or more as it would take a long time for the JW Org to get back into good standing with God and therefore be useable, or for God to have the true Anointed remnant here on earth doing his will and gathering the earthly class. But i also said that God could do it in 10 days if He so wished. 
Mr Harley just picked up on the 10 years because he is a storyteller and loves to get attention for himself. He offers nothing that is upbuilding but just loves to ridicule others. Over to you story teller. 
Update  
I've just noticed that the story teller or someone, has now added the idea that true Anointed will give the date of the Judgement.  No, the true Anointed know that no one knows the day or the hour. It is only false servants of God that put dates to it, and how silly they have shown themselves to be. 

Say wha?
Oh, I get it.
nevermind.
" Stay Alive 'till 500,001,975 !! "
.... this is what is known in religious circles as a "Gross Prophet Margin".
 

It is not God who gave all future generations a severely limited lifespan ... it was their parents.
But didn't God reduce that life span to 120 years then 70 years ? 
3 score year + ten. 

1) The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction.
2)  If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way."
Deceiving and in manipulate form. In first sentence writer showing idea how Jesus will fix all things and give justice and proper help to people who are hurt by elders. In second sentence comes new message: Do not have hope how Jesus will do it because of you (or in your lifetime). You are not of His primary interest, you are just sheep. Bigger picture is more important than you as individuum. 
The idea of "spirit guided organization" is also a trick??
We don't have any clear Bible example from 1 century or earlier how elders today should or need to handle CSA. Perhaps we can find some other modern problem too,that is not pictured in Bible.
In spirit of this words i would give serious question about JW doctrine how elders are appointed by holy spirit. Here you said how elders are people who need to be in spirit and recommendations and guidelines of laws, principles and boundaries. Again, very stretchy and with strong human influence on things. It seems to me, how JW members have to decide in own mind, do they want to continue with idea of God's appointments or human appointments of  church servants.
We misunderstand each other. I gave point on subject; Do Jesus have interest to be First and Last in decisions that are about His Flock and Congregation,  or He leave that to elders. In fact i ask, WHO RUN church? Jesus or WT Society with elders?  
You gave answer down:
"snow globe" in general beliefs of JW's

Sorry, your illustration with car driving is funny. Go, please, on YT and you will learn a lot how not to drive.  Auto-school is place for first lessons. .....if you didn't know before :))
I suppose how his flock is made of people who put faith in him and listen to his voice and how he directs them by his spirit (for example, when two or three gathered in my name i am with them). 
We don't need to turn around nothing. Few words is enough, don't you agree? 

Contradiction of yourself, as you did reply  .  I think possibly he means the Watchtower and JW Org as being false gods. 

1) The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction.
2)  If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way."
Deceiving and in manipulate form. In first sentence writer showing idea how Jesus will fix all things and give justice and proper help to people who are hurt by elders. In second sentence comes new message: Do not have hope how Jesus will do it because of you (or in your lifetime). You are not of His primary interest, you are just sheep. Bigger picture is more important than you as individuum. 
The idea of "spirit guided organization" is also a trick??
We don't have any clear Bible example from 1 century or earlier how elders today should or need to handle CSA. Perhaps we can find some other modern problem too,that is not pictured in Bible.
In spirit of this words i would give serious question about JW doctrine how elders are appointed by holy spirit. Here you said how elders are people who need to be in spirit and recommendations and guidelines of laws, principles and boundaries. Again, very stretchy and with strong human influence on things. It seems to me, how JW members have to decide in own mind, do they want to continue with idea of God's appointments or human appointments of  church servants.
We misunderstand each other. I gave point on subject; Do Jesus have interest to be First and Last in decisions that are about His Flock and Congregation,  or He leave that to elders. In fact i ask, WHO RUN church? Jesus or WT Society with elders?  
You gave answer down:
"snow globe" in general beliefs of JW's

excellent  movie

Bible speaks about stones who witnessing and children who gives a praise. What is strange if some women doing what some men don't? 
You doing the same here. Would we ( who are males) have to reject and make funny of your thoughts and words just because you are woman?
WT publications said that same idea. And your explanation is based on that. .... But articles explained how NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE who are and who are not anointed. Based on this clam from WT and such information, it is good to be careful about GB too. :))
What is work of anointed and what is work of slave? What is difference? What their service to God and to people making to be different in the past and today (1st century ...... 2000 years later)?

Quote @TrueTomHarley  His opinion?!!
Can you imagine how @James Thomas Rook Jr., not to mention yourself, would have blown a gasket back then?
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Ah but there is the difference. To ADMIT it is one's own opinion. BUT the GB pretend they are the F&DS and in so doing they pretend to be giving God's words or Christ's instructions to the congregation. 
Do the Watchtower writers / GB ever say 'This is only our opinion' ?  Do they ever say 'This message is not from God or Christ, it is just from us'
No i don't think so. The GB say ' Jehovah and Jesus Christ trusts us, so the congregation should trust us' 
 
Quote @TrueTomHarley "I put stock in passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16....All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness," 
But that scripture must have been referring to the Hebrew writings as the Greek writings hadn't been completed or gathered at that time. As you yourself said those 'chosen ones' didn't know their words were to be included in the later books of a collection of writings we call the Bible or Holy Scriptures. 
I love the way you have to make fun of people that prove you and your Org wrong on so many counts. It shows the hurt that you and others feel. The bruising of your heart when some of us make valid points. True I do tend to generalise a bit. And true, many 'boots on the ground' JWs / basic congregants, can be 'nice people' sometimes. But I just feel sorry for those ones, they have stopped using their own minds and hearts, and have knuckled under to carry the heavy loads put on them by the GB and Elders and all those in between. Maybe i should change my user name to dodo  ....  It's raining again here. I hope the weather is better where ever you are. 
 

I am not talking about "dodos" ... and you know that very well. :))) You showed little attempt to redirect my words. This is something what i wouldn't expect from you :))
 
 
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Hmmm, i would understand how person who are  born of Spirit KNOW exactly who he/she is and where he/she is going.
If so, then WT multiplication of all sort of knowledge is so "dodo". :))

This is possible what you said Tom. To be inspired but not have awareness of that. Of course, we can make some more thoughts on that too.
But i wish to ask: if Inspired individual is not aware of own state of inspiration, how individuals who are not inspired by God can made, make claims about God's manifest of inspiration in other persons? Have in mind that devil can make inspirational miracles too. 
How you who are not inspired by God recognize that someone else is inspired by God? We are not speaking about "miracles" as walking on water and feeding 5000 people with few fish, but about doctrines.
After uninspired men have collected some letters from dust and caves, their eyes were "opened" to see how what they have in hands are "inspired" by God????? Amazing! Or do you suggesting how Pope and other bishops were "inspired", while choosing letters, but also not been aware how God inspired them for this task?

On first question answer would be: Behaviour and decisions are human freedom, and Jesus not need to "control" this aspect. But Congregation is His Work, He made Congregation, and i guess He has interest that this body to be as much as possible without blame. 
On second question answer would be: Elders want to be elders by own will, no one force them to be on that position, i guess. Did Jesus choose them or GB? What ever be the case, both of this group claims how Jesus is their Lord. 
About "control". Elders working as "controllers", because they try to correct and dfd all individuals who not behave in harmony to rules. Well, i see a little contradiction about your claim how Jesus not want to "control" behaviour and decision of people in the congregation. If Jesus as Master and Lord not want to control human behaviour and decisions, as you said, why you think that elders have that right?
In continue question comes: Why you think that Jesus have no interest to "control" those who "controlling" sheeps in HIS Flock?  
Maybe we can go to use other words instead word "control"?

It's like a gun.
A gun is a tool that is no better or worse than the man who uses it.
 

A perfect topic for another day. This is a topic I might not be ready for. But I've seen enough to know you are making some good points and asking some good and thoughtful questions. I'm surprised that the topic gets completely ignored for the most part among Witnesses and every other religious group I've wondered about. 

Yeah .... I remember (hits self in head several times with a ball-peen hammer, to not laugh out loud ...) when the Catholics produced the KJV, about 900AD.
May I then take your answer to my question, César Chávez, as a resounding YES?

No problem, that's why I keep a drawer full of spare gaskets.
-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
You know, the Bible way back then was actually just a collection of letters, stories, novels ( The "book" of Enoch comes to mind ...), poems, essays, and "church" stuff, some on scraps of papyrus, before it was edited and assembled into what we now call the Bible.
Since the Bible we have today was originally decided upon by the Catholic Church ( Eusebius of Caesarea was there and watched it being done, as well as helped ...), should we credit THEM with being inspired?
( I hope JWI jumps in on this one and does the "heavy lifting", to get it straightened out ....)

It is still so funny how JWs need to compare modern day Elders to those Anointed Christians of the first century. Anointed Christians back then were inspired of God, hence they wrote Bible books that we have now. Obviously the apostates were not inspired of God.
Elders, just like the GB, are not inspired by God, and do not have a clue. There really is no comparison. 
I have faith that God through Christ will inspire Anointed ones again soon.  

Does this means how GB and elders have no doubts today, and never did. And was/are in agreement (fully convinced) in all false teachings from past to today and to tomorrow, and how such false and error teachings still deserved to be called "Past Truth", "Old Light", "Temporary Truth", "Present Truth" and similar ????.  :))))
So, many are willing to wait and keep on preaching errors in various modes as individuals who have; doubts, are not fully convinced, are in disagreement or are in full agreement?
It is possible, but then what about verses who speaking about Jesus as Shepherd of his congregations, Master, Lord who have stars aka elders in his hand. ?? And how He is the One who sets and removes elders from position?? This sounds to me how He should be in control. :))

Probably not like a river, or taking a shower .... like quantum physics, there are some things that are so counter-intuitive that are actually quite real, that ANYBODY who says they understand it, is only deluding themselves. 
Fortunately, we can avail ourselves of the pragmatic, practical technology that makes Smart Phones, iPads, GPS and the like just by knowing how things operate, without actually grokking the nature of what the sub-atomic particles we are using actually are.
Frankly, I have had only one experience with infusion of Holy Spirit, and that was back in July of 1964, and it scared me so much I resisted it as being illogical, and dangerous, as I did not know at the time what was happening.
How many times I wish I had not resisted it, I might have turned out a better man.
 

There are people that will stand in the middle of quicksand, and declare adamantly that they are not ... even as they drown, and their head disappears from sight.
There is NOTHING you can do for such ones.   Nothing at all.
They are doomed to always be wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
 

It finally appears that we are winding down and I like that @b4ucuhear has already tried to reduce this conversation to only the most important points. However, there is still a chance that someone will read what @César Chávez said, and begin to believe that there are now some new scholars that agree with the Watchtower chronology, which Cesar claims 'has been correct all along.'
Let's just make this simple in case others might look at what was written here and get confused. You are pretending that the Watchtower has been "correct all along" and your evidence is supposed to be found among these six "new" sources. From what I have found so far, the folowing is more accurate:
"New Chronology" Scholar Agrees w/ WTS for Jerusalem destruction - Nebuchadnezzar's 18th/19th year as 607-606 Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, Grayson - Nebuchadnezzar's 18th/19th year as 587-586 Jonathan Stokl Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Caroline Waerzeggers Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Gary Knoppers Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc.  Peter Ackroyd Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Lester Grabbe Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Deirdre Fulton Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Of course, now you are telling me that I am putting too much emphasis on the word destruction, as if the Watchtower doctrine doesn't emphasize the destruction of Jerusalem.
But here are just a few of the Watchtower references, using only articles from the last 10 years, and some samples from just a few of the books. Who is it, you think, who is fixated on this word destruction?
*** w18 February p. 3 par. 2 Imitate the Faith and Obedience of Noah, Daniel, and Job ***
Apostate Jerusalem was nearing its foretold destruction, which occurred in 607 B.C.E.
*** w16 June p. 16 Questions From Readers ***
apostate Jerusalem prior to its destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** ws14 7/15 p. 18 par. 9 “You Are My Witnesses” ***
After that, Jehovah continued warning his people until the year 607 before Christ, when Jerusalem was destroyed.
*** w14 7/15 p. 25 par. 9 “You Are My Witnesses” ***
That was 125 years before Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** w11 3/15 p. 31 par. 14 Keep Awake, as Jeremiah Did ***
Some Jews as well as non-Israelites survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** w11 10/1 p. 26 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
the year of Jerusalem’s destruction. Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that it was 607 B.C.E.?
*** w11 10/1 p. 29 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
But if the evidence from the inspired Scriptures clearly points to 607 B.C.E. for Jerusalem’s destruction, why do many authorities hold to the date 587 B.C.E.?
*** w11 10/1 p. 31 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
Counting back from that year would place Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E
*** w11 11/1 p. 25 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
then his 18th year would be 607 B.C.E.—the very year indicated by the Bible’s chronology for the destruction of Jerusalem!
*** w11 11/1 p. 27 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
This, therefore, supports the date of 607 B.C.E. for Jerusalem’s destruction—just as the Bible indicates.
*** w11 11/1 p. 27 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
Those statements strongly indicate that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. As the above evidence shows, that conclusion has some secular support.
*** w09 3/15 p. 14 par. 14 Keep Your Eyes on the Prize ***
In time, the entire nation turned apostate, resulting in its destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** g 1/11 p. 11 A Book You Can Trust—Part 3 ***
In 607 B.C.E., Babylonian armies destroyed Jerusalem and took the survivors off to Babylon, where they were treated cruelly.
*** g 5/09 p. 11 A Receipt That Corroborates the Bible Record ***
Nebo-sarsechim was one of King Nebuchadnezzar’s commanders at the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.,
*** rr chap. 6 p. 67 par. 13 “The End Is Now Upon You” ***
Thus, both time periods would end in 607 B.C.E., the exact year in which Jerusalem fell and was destroyed, just as Jehovah had foretold.
*** rr chap. 7 p. 74 par. 8 The Nations “Will Have to Know That I Am Jehovah” ***
from the time of the Exodus to the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
*** rr chap. 8 p. 89 par. 14 “I Will Raise Up One Shepherd” ***
In 607 B.C.E., with the destruction of Jerusalem, the “high” kingdom of Judah centered in Jerusalem was brought low
*** rr chap. 11 p. 126 par. 17 “I Have Appointed You as a Watchman” ***
who spoke to God’s people in the period surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
*** rr chap. 16 p. 175 par. 9 “Put a Mark on the Foreheads” ***
Ezekiel’s prophecy was fulfilled in 607 B.C.E. when the Babylonian army destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
*** rr chap. 16 p. 178 par. 17 “Put a Mark on the Foreheads” ***
As we saw earlier, those who survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** dp chap. 4 p. 50 par. 8 The Rise and Fall of an Immense Image ***
These words applied to Nebuchadnezzar after Jehovah had used him to destroy Jerusalem, in 607 B.C.E.
*** cl chap. 8 p. 78 par. 5 Restorative Power—Jehovah Is “Making All Things New” ***
Just imagine how faithful Jews felt in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was destroyed.
*** dp chap. 6 p. 96 par. 27 Unraveling the Mystery of the Great Tree ***
If we were to count 2,520 literal days from Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.,
*** po chap. 2 p. 20 par. 27 The Immortal Possessor of the “Eternal Purpose” ***
God’s protection through the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple by the armies of Babylon in the year 607 B.C.E.
*** po chap. 14 p. 173 par. 11 Triumph for the “Eternal Purpose” ***
Before the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
*** jr chap. 15 p. 188 par. 13 “I Cannot Keep Silent” ***
True worshippers were affected by the appalling conditions that prevailed before Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E
So you seem to be conflicted over this fixation the Watchtower has with the word "destruction." But you know you can't admit a conflict with the Watchtower itself, and therefore you "project" that conflictedness onto me. I'm willing to do what I can to help you work through this. I've seen it before with others on unrelated topics. What you might need to do as a start, is to spell out exactly what you think the right solution is. You might not be ready to be definitive, and that's OK, but you should start with what you think is probably correct, and how you think the Watchtower should change their wording so that they don't appear to be "fixated" on this word "destruction." How do you think they should have worded it instead?
If you try to answer that question, I'll know you are serious about researching this issue. If you won't even try, then I'll have to consider the next most likely assumption about your motives. 

The Insight Book is from the Org, because they are frightened to answer honest questions. 
And you @b4ucuhear just follow the GB / Orgs directions blindly. 
I like the second scripture you used 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..." 
The Bible Students and the Directors / GB / of Watchtower & JW Org have constantly argued about things. GB members have bee d/fed. Some on here that have worked in Bethel can give you first hand information about regular squabbles there. 
And the puffed up with pride bit, defo' refers to the GB calling themselves the F&DS.