Srecko Sostar

Mr Harley it  looks like you are laying a road not writing a comment and IMO it is to hide half of what you have actually written, because you know yourself it is complete tosh.  So you have made it difficult for anyone to comment on it by writing for five miles long. 
However, quote . 
' It used to be announced from time to time that “so and so has been disfellowshipped.” For several years now—what is it? maybe 10? it is “so and so is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
It gets the job done, and it avoids the problem of being attacked over the fact that “disfellowship” is not a word that appears in the Bible.. '
Oh dear, how sad you are. Was it ever announced that 'so and so has left the JW's ?  Because the obvious reason for this 'newish' way of telling it, is purely to hide the FACT that many JW's are actually LEAVING the JW Org. The GB wishes to hide the numbers of those disassociating themselves from JW Org. 
Add to this that may Victims of CSA  have said they were d'fed for either complaining to the Elders or to outside authorities. So now the GB can, through it's 'police dept' (elders), d'fed someone who has suffered CSA but does not have enough proof, but that still complains to the elders. The elders can still threaten d'fed action with or without  the new 'rule book'. 
Quote " They think of “treat him as a tax collector and man of the nations,” that Jews had “no dealings” with. "
Are but we are not Jews, we are NOT under Mosaic Law. JESUS would eat meals in the homes of Tax Collectors. Wasn't Matthew a Tax Collector ?  And the disciples / apostles went out to the people of the nations to gather them to God. 
Quote " They think of “not even eating with such a man, "  BUT you have forgotten the whole scripture here. 
New International Version
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
So tell me o worshipper of the GB, what is the case if a person leaves the JW Org, and no longer calls himself / herself a brother or sister ? That scripture cannot applyote "
Quote " it is indisputably the Bible that directs congregation members. It is the Bible that tells them what to do, "
You are having a laugh Mr Harley. Congregants know who are pulling the strings, but congregants love being puppets. It means they do not have to think or have a conscience. If they go wrong they can blame the Org for it's misdirection. They, like you, worship the GB.
Quote "The only “sin” that the “corporation” has committed is educating members as to what the Bible says on all aspects of life. "
Oh if only it was the only sin. You are so blinkered. GB / Org sins include, CSA, disfellowshipping for false reasons,  Telling the Anointed not to contact each other,  pretending to be the F&DS, telling lies to congregants and to the world by false teachings, Telling lies in Courts and probably many more. 
But i won't be so selfish as to take up as much space as you did My Harley............. 
 
 

Yes or No?! How NO changing the fact that WT had been established according to secular laws and that JW is under same set or laws, established as working cells around the world? First in form of Name for purpose to be somehow different from other Christians and as separation from Russell influence. Later as legal entities that continue working under WT Society direction.   
What 1 century Romans have with JW's known under that name today ? Jews and later Romans persecuted Jesus's Witnesses not Jehovah's Witnesses.  

Recently, @JW Insider drew my attention to different meaning about wording: Jehovah's Witnesses and Jehovah's  witnesses.  First one is using only for religious movement, religion, specific group of people or legal entity (started in 1931). The second description is about every individual who accept JHVH, worship and obey him or have some role in JHVH plan, purpose.
In that way, i would say how some person, member of JW organization, can be dfd from Organization and as such is not considered anymore as one of Jehovah's Witnesses (the legal entity under WT Society supervision). BUT that not automatically disqualified him as individual who can continue to be Jehovah's witness according to Isaiah or any other Bible verses where is described how acting person who living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings. (specifically here is about doctrinal differences)
To living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings, NOT NECESSARY  mean how person HAVE to be inside particular Legal Entity, in this case, WT Society, CCJW or any other of Watchtower sister' companies !! 

Srecko Sostar said:
That's right, and is according to standard English word usage. "Jehovah's Witnesses" is a proper noun, a name. "Jehovah's witnesses" is a generic group claiming to be witnesses for Jehovah, which of course, any group can do.
Exactly!
This is completely lost on braindead JWs who think they're serving Jehovah rather than the Watchtower Society.

Wow! TrueTomHarley, aka Vic Vomidog, here quotes himself several times, after mistakenly taking me to task for quoting myself. Of course, he had simply misread my post.
A process like that has been going on a lot longer. Until some time in the 1960s DF'ings were announced with something like "so and so has been disfellowshipped for fornication". At some point, I don't remember exactly when, that was changed to "for conduct unbecoming a Christian". At least one lawsuit was brought for libel or whatever, resulting in simply "has been disfellowshipped", to avoid liability for defamation.
But that's exactly what it is. Such conduct is precisely what pegs the JWs as a "high control group". I.e., a cult.
It is rarely necessary. It is also more than a bit arbitrary. I've seen cases where one judicial committee decided to disfellowship, and upon appeal another reversed it. Occasionally the Society itself is called in to resolve the matter.
In theory, yes. In practice, it's often simply a punishment visited upon someone by corrupt elders, or even corrupt Watchtower officials.
The "well-being of the congregation" is entirely subjective. Many JWs have quit and disappeared into the woodwork, only to find years later that some corrupt elder from his old congregation--even a decade later--has tracked him down and initiated DF'ing action. Something like this happened with my wife, so don't tell it doesn't happen.
It can't. But the Society is completely hypocritical about this. It has a specific policy that if someone quietly becomes inactive, elders should leave him alone. This is usually the case, but not always. There is always the chance that corrupt elders will actively pursue the person and try to DF him. Such a person has no chance that an appeal will reverse the DF'ing. And often his relationship with still-JW relatives is permanently ruined.
To be consistent, the Society would have to have a policy where someone simply leaving the cult would be officially designated as "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" and shunned accordingly. But that is even more cultish than the present policy is, and the Society knows it. A policy of "you cannot leave without dire consequences" would result in massive lawsuits, being a Mafiaesque policy.
Those scriptures are grossly misapplied. 1 Corinthians 5:11 has Paul telling people to avoid mixing in company with "anyone called a brother" who violates certain moral standards. But if someone leaves the cult and fails to do the various normal JW activities, JWs no longer view him as a brother, and so, following the Bible's words, such a person should logically no longer be subject to congregational ostracism.
Nonsense. It is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, through its various subsidiary corporations, that directs congregation members. If this Society changed its corporate policies on DF'ing and all manner of other things, all congregations would follow--on pain of DF'ing for "ignoring Lordship" or something like that.
Ah, a better statement of "the Watchtower Society's words are the same as God's words" can hardly be found. As the May 1, 1957 Watchtower said (p.274):
<< If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother. >>
That's all pretense. Every JW knows, on some level, that even if he can demonstrate from the Bible that some Watchtower teaching or policy is unscriptural, he must follow the Watchtower Society, on pain of disfellowshipping. The Society's direct violation of Jesus' commands in Luke 21:7-8 proves it.
As I told a Watchtower official 20 years ago, if the Society cleaned up its act with regard to three things--blood, child abuse and disfellowshippiing--almost all opposition would dry up. There's virtually no chance of that, and opposition will continue.
That would be a good thing, especially in view of the Society's policy of encouraging very young people to join the JW cult. A young person baptized at 10 years of age should not be held to adult standards of conduct, nor be disfellowshipped--not for any reason. Such a young person had no real understanding, on an adult level, of what baptism means--an explicit and apparently legally binding joining of the JW cult.
Totally and self-servingly wrong. The gross brainwashing characteristic of JWs means that they only think they're obeying God rather than men. But the fact that when the Watchtower Society tells them to believe something the opposite of what they had believed, or to act in an opposite manner, proves that it is the Society, not the Bible, that controls their minds.
Yes, we're having coffee together.
Some do, some do. So what?
[ Irrelevant ramblings deleted ]
My experience was quite the opposite. By age 24, in 1975, I was not the least interested in being a "servant" of any kind. Nevertheless, I was appointed as a Ministerial Servant. How? One Thursday evening, during the Service Meeting, and without ever having told me, the Presiding Overseer announced, "Alan has been appointed ..." I was quite angry but held my peace, and began duties as the Accounts Servant. I swallowed my resentment.
But I was painfully aware that, contrary to Watchtower teaching, I had NOT been appointed by holy spirit. In fact, it was that breach of my free will that helped me understand the Society's deception on "appointment by holy spirit". I saw plenty of exceptions to that rule.
So as usual, TTH/Vic, you don't know what you're talking about. You're much like what God did in the Bible story of "Balaam's Ass".

He’s making a big deal over nothing. They had a sticky W key on the main typewriter back then, and the brother who should have fixed it had gone apostate.
The other version I hear is that Vic Vomidog, who was in charge of writing back then, became ambitious.
He no longer wanted to be known as a witness.
He wanted to be known as a Witness.
After his can was kicked to the curb, brothers took a look at what was in the hopper. Next up it was going to be Jehovah’s WITNESSES.

Recently, @JW Insider drew my attention to different meaning about wording: Jehovah's Witnesses and Jehovah's  witnesses.  First one is using only for religious movement, religion, specific group of people or legal entity (started in 1931). The second description is about every individual who accept JHVH, worship and obey him or have some role in JHVH plan, purpose.
In that way, i would say how some person, member of JW organization, can be dfd from Organization and as such is not considered anymore as one of Jehovah's Witnesses (the legal entity under WT Society supervision). BUT that not automatically disqualified him as individual who can continue to be Jehovah's witness according to Isaiah or any other Bible verses where is described how acting person who living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings. (specifically here is about doctrinal differences)
To living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings, NOT NECESSARY  mean how person HAVE to be inside particular Legal Entity, in this case, WT Society, CCJW or any other of Watchtower sister' companies !! 

UP VOTE !
That is why we all need to pass self-defense course and have a lot of practice :))
 
Is this word "overjoyed" something as "inspired" ?

I am fully aware that Justice you ONLY get from God ... everything else is due process, which only approximates Justice.
..... sometimes.
I don't expect much from humans, and I am never disappointed.
... just another day in the 'hood.
------------------------------------------------
... and with that exposition, I return you to real life, already in progress.
 

I think I am going to find that quote, cut it out, have it laminated, and keep it in my wallet, as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for future use.
Several years ago I was Df'd, and at one of my many reinstatement hearings over a period of three years, the last one where I was reinstated, the C.C. asked me something along the lines of "What do you think about the decisions of the Governing Body?"
I looked at him in the eyes and replied "I will have to agree with what was stated in the February 2017 Watchtower, that they are neither inspired, or infallible."
Dead silence as if they had been bonked on the head with a wooden mallet.
Then the C.C. said to the other two Brothers' surprise "Oh, yeah ... I remember reading about that ...".
I was reinstated the following Wednesday night at the Circuit Overseer's visit.
 

I don't have any way of telling. As of about the last four or five years, the last of the writers I might have generally recognized are failing in health and getting very few, if any, new assignments. (Aulicino, Smalley, Wischuk).
I noticed that in the preceding paragraph there is a point about "greenhouses" that appears incomplete. This is sometimes a hint that it was edited down from a talk that had once expanded on the greenhouse illustration. Perhaps someone remembers who gave such a talk?
*** w19 September p. 23 pars. 10-11 “Come to Me, . . . and I Will Refresh You” ***
10 Jesus created a peaceful, inviting environment for his fellow workers, and he enjoyed training them. (Luke 10:1, 19-21) He encouraged his disciples to ask questions, and he wanted to hear their opinions. (Matt. 16:13-16) Much like plants in a greenhouse, the disciples flourished. They absorbed the lessons that Jesus taught and produced fruit in the form of good works.
11 Do you have a position of authority? If so, ask yourself: ‘What kind of environment do I create at work or at home? Do I promote peace? Do I encourage others to ask questions? And am I willing to hear their opinions?’ Never would we want to be like the Pharisees, who resented those who questioned them and persecuted those who expressed an opinion contrary to their own.—Mark 3:1-6; John 9:29-34.
There is no specific reason to reference greenhouses as they are not mentioned in the Bible. There is just as much reason to say above "Much like plants in a fertile, well-watered field, the disciples flourished." The reason to mention a greenhouse is to speak about a closed environment "independent of external circumstances" and independent of "world" conditions. That is not done above, but was the previous use in a 1997 Watchtower:
*** w97 1/1 p. 4 Why Should We All Praise God? ***
It can be cultivated independent of external circumstances, just as plants can grow in a greenhouse whatever the weather is like outside.”
In general, the proofreaders would never question something like this. It's the type of thing that an editorial committee (and/or GB) might question. But only if they were thinking in the mindset of how it might be used against them. When editors are reading it as counsel only for others and not for themselves, it's easy to say things that might sound hypocritical or self-incriminating.
Of course, I prefer the idea that Brother Splane, for example, is using an opportunity to create a more open Society. Perhaps opening up a question or suggestion box on JW.ORG. Perhaps allowing suggestions to be upvoted and downvoted by millions of JWs. 😀  Splane, of course, was the one to make the biggest use of Luke 10 to highlight Jesus' methods of teaching in his Annual Meeting talk in 2014, and this is echoed in paragraph 10.

I see no problem in the two instances you mention responding with lethal force, in the defense of ANY "innocent" people.
Plus, realizing that an incompetent defense is no defense at all, being a professional victim is something I try to avoid.
Just a a carpenter has to be skilled in his craft, sometimes taking many years to learn, piece by piece, and trial-and-error ... and have the proper tools, and be able to use them.
Luke 22:36
The Apostles, as all Galilean men, customarily carried swords, and at least TWO of the Apostles at the "Last Supper", and first Memorial, were armed WITH THEIR OWN PERSONAL SWORDS ... which they had in the room with them already, having taken them off to sit down and have dinner, and enjoy their Meeting, as was the custom at the dinner table back then.
We all die.
Cowards die a thousand deaths ... the valiant ...  only once.
 
 

That is why we can see how JW security guards (ms and elders) was used as peacekeepers and/or bouncers in some videos.
If some hooligans or organized mob go to attack KH and people in it, would fighting back be in harmony to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations?
If some soldiers go to attack your village or town, would fighting back be according to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations? 
Self-defense in WT magazine didn't explain much. Because what is self-defense?  Yelling and waving with hands? If someone want to use self-defense he/she have to know how to do it!  Looking videos on that subject, going to courses and lot of practice, than you can do it properly to defend self or other who need help. Otherwise ....do not go in conflict with one who is prepared for conflict.
@Arauna I think how you didn't read carefully what was written. JW Insider didn't said how Jesus promoted idea, BUT HOW FOCUS on only supporting future wars to be led by Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea. WHO making this sort of FOCUS? WT publications making focus on preaching service and to stay still (be neutral) in human wars.

I presume @admin has given up on keeping things on topic  

That is why we can see how JW security guards (ms and elders) was used as peacekeepers and/or bouncers in some videos.
If some hooligans or organized mob go to attack KH and people in it, would fighting back be in harmony to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations?
If some soldiers go to attack your village or town, would fighting back be according to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations? 
Self-defense in WT magazine didn't explain much. Because what is self-defense?  Yelling and waving with hands? If someone want to use self-defense he/she have to know how to do it!  Looking videos on that subject, going to courses and lot of practice, than you can do it properly to defend self or other who need help. Otherwise ....do not go in conflict with one who is prepared for conflict.
@Arauna I think how you didn't read carefully what was written. JW Insider didn't said how Jesus promoted idea, BUT HOW FOCUS on only supporting future wars to be led by Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea. WHO making this sort of FOCUS? WT publications making focus on preaching service and to stay still (be neutral) in human wars.

Persecuted Jesus to the point of death. And, some would say, the GB persecute the Anointed by saying that the rest of the Anointed are not the F&DS  and by telling them not to contact each other, even though they are ONE BODY with Christ as head.. 

JW organization consider self to be Christians. I would suggest, if you don't mind, to reconsider what is or should be basic in Jesus'teachings. I guess how main foundation of Christianity and therefore for JW's, can be found in two famous verses as Jesus' respond or answer on question: Which is greatest command? 
Love should be main teaching, main doctrine of religion that want prove self as to be "only true". Why? Because "knowledge" as product of Bible interpretations that makes distinctions between various religions, and constant tries to prove how member of another church is wrong about some issue, will not help no one.
Religious "knowledge" brings people to problems. "True knowledge" or "Error knowledge" or "Brighter knowledge" or "Clarified knowledge" and so on .... But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. - 1 Cor 8
 
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” - John 13
All our talking and litanies and outwitting (outsmarting) is vain work. What will count is how we treat each other, and not how smart we can be to win in discussion.  :)))
 
One of main positive way how to love people around you is not going to war for reasons because of many wars are started, for sure, but it is also  crucial to defend people who are under attack. How to accomplish these two?

Perhaps some "spirit empowered" individuum ....
 “Why do you ask My name,” said the Angel of the LORD, “since it is beyond comprehension?” - Judges 13
:)))
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers,.... 2 Cor 4
Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. - Genesis 19
:)))

I have nothing to "evade" about it. Bible clearly named, count this specific matter, that David was soldier and killed many people, and how this is reason why God didn't want him to build Temple. 
I just want to put in focus, how that factor (killing many people) must not be obstacle for your good relation to God and His blessings on such person. By the way, from who came commands and encouraging to be in so many combats and killing people? From his God. Many battles had been for God and in the name of God. Of course, some personal interest sometimes came in David head and he done what he wish to do (Uriah for example)
On other hand some angels or even God's Son were and will participate in massive bloodshed (Noah Flood,  Assyrian soldiers,  Armageddon, post 1000 year Kingdom Day of last Test), but that will not disqualified Him to be Priest and King and many more, to build Spiritual Temple in greater scale than it is now.
I really don't see why we have to be tied with some verse with few words, while entire Bible giving few other perspectives on same issue. 

After i had been prepare my Letter of disassociation (2015), one elder from another congregation (long time acquaintance, and he is doctor if that have to mean something to people who will read this) wanted to read it and to see me. After he had been read my Letter, he had nothing special to say, add, in a sense of, to "call me back to organization or to JHVH) But he told me how he also visiting few web sites where ex-JW members discussing, as we doing here. But, contrary to your experience and need JW Insider, he said how he just reading, and not participating in any other way. Of course, that was something i was not expected to hear (his going to "apostate web).  :))  

If i remembered conversation between them, David already made plans, ordered place for Temple and collecting "money" for project and continue with that despite changed circumstances. As i see this, David made act of obeying JHVH words how Solomon is better choice to be builder of Temple.
We can only guess what would happened if David decide to build Temple despite God's will. JHVH had various methods of practice when dealing with human disobeying. Sometimes He killed them all, sometimes leave them to do what ever they want. :))

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/whats-the-maximum-gravity-we-could-survive

Apologies dear - no prob.  I just butted in that we are not pacifist..... lol.   Did not mean to mess up thread.
To understand the randsom sacrifice is crucial - that jesus gave his soul in death for 3 days.  Not love but self-sacrificing love as set in the example of jesus. 
If I love you more than myself (prepared to give my life) and you live me more than yourself (prepared to give your life) the world will be a different place. Alas !  We will all show this kind of love completely  under futurekingdom of Christ.

Anna said:
Satan created nothing. Where do you get that from?
The Bible indicates that Satan became Satan only 6,000 years ago according to Watchtower chronology. How could he, as Satan, affect what God created half a billion years ago?
When? You're forgetting that the predator/prey problem is at least half a billion years old.
Are you proposing that the God/Satan controversy is not 6,000 years old, as the Watchtower Society claims, but half a billion?
But various biblical statements are pretty clear that God considered eating meat, by humans or animals, bad from the beginning. This has long been Watchtower teaching. The Bible indicates this, as the Society argues, by God's giving vegetation but no meat to Adam and Eve. And after the Flood God explicitly allowed meat eating. And several scriptures indicate that at some future time the animals will all be at peace (cf. Isaiah 11:6).
Most people today have a strong feeling of aversion when they see a leopard devouring an animal alive. Right? I call this the Eeeww! factor. Take a look at the videos below of leopards eating live warthogs and tell me you don't react with Eeeww!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXUrFdWeoU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Id4OSe2to
If a man had two sons and set them in a life and death contest, with one guaranteed to die, would you consider that loving? Especially if the dead son had no chance of a resurrection? Of course not.
How is that different from God's setting predators against prey? Will all those dead animals be resurrected? What about all the pain and suffering? If your mother bit into a rabbit and ate it piece by bloody piece, would that have been loving? The Bible says that God gave the Israelites laws to protect animals from excessive cruelty. Isn't God's creating leopards to eat warthogs alive excessive cruelty?
You're not thinking this through.

There is often a difference between what is believed, and what is taught.
My was a Navy nurse during WWII, and working in Philadelphia hospitals, seeing men come back mangled and torn apart, and forever ruined, and dying, made her become a pacifist.  She finished her enlistment, however.  Years later, she saw a "Let God Be True" book on a neighbor's end table, and to my blessing and hers, she asked her neighbor if she could read it.
I was taught the Truth from an early age from my pacifist Mother who was in addition to being a devout Witness, a devout pacifist.
So ... "Stuff Happens" like that all the time, and later, when I went to the U.S. Selective Service Draft Board, I was still confused about what my role should be  ... but I knew that the issue was NEUTRALITY, NOT pacifism, because by them, I had learned that pacifism was a bogus philosophy for cartoons, much like our cartoons of all animals in the New System frolicking and eating straw.
More later ....