Srecko Sostar

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meetings. Congregants also voting while making resolutions. So, this is not any different from what world doing. Subjects are different. But many things about "worldly" things are not in opposition to Bible. If, people who leaving in one street or area have to do something for common interest, for example, to build new water system or rebuild old one, and it is needed to collect "information" of how many people are ready to contribute with money, or who are ready to and will sign contract (to vote) for that purpose, you need to use this sort of democratic process - to vote for or against something.
I would say how JW's are not against voting inside WT Society, but are against voting in secular life. Many things exists when decision is needed,have nothing with "politics"(state or political party things), but on other hand all in our life is politic anyway. 
Definition of politic
1: POLITICAL
2: characterized by shrewdness in managing, contriving, or dealing
3: sagacious in promoting a policy
4: shrewdly tactful
In that sense, JW as people who know what is good and how to accomplish this same, are in position to mandatory doing good because they know doing good. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. - James 4. JW not need to go voting for new senator, or president, but will doing good to not be so "indifferent", as they are,  in many other secular things in everyday life.
Yes, you are entitled to have such feelings. BUT Until That Time Comes, you have to care about your garbage, ecology, animals, electricity, new urbanistic planes in your place of living, safety or traffic issues in the street, etc. General standpoint of JW's about this is exactly what you called as ...  indifference. 
We are actively supporting only a future government of God .... and with this sentence you presenting what i try to explain. JW's are not active in supporting ... animal shelters or shelters for beaten woman and sexual abused children, homeless ...and so on.   

It is hard to believe that the movie that explained this, "The Matrix" came out in 1999.
We ALL take either one of the red pills ... or one of the blue pills.
There are no exceptions.
 
 

.....  yeah ... I know the feeling. 
Here in the United States we invest in ways to get 1.21 gigawatts of electricity by building crude models that are not to scale, nor have they been painted properly.
FHIL Fun _ Back to the Future_ Doc's Prototype.mp4

DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
I was a teenager in the 60's,  and I had a good friend that on Scout camping trips I introduced to the Truth, and I was there in NYC at Yankee Stadium when he was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witness. He was a true "straight arrow", and pioneered, always dressed immaculately, and eventually over the years became an Elder.
One night, at an Elder's Meeting, he announced to the other Elders that he was Jesus Christ, and that his mother was the virgin Mary, and of course he was disfellowshipped.
He spent several years in private mental institutions until his insurance money ran out, then in a State institution for several years.
He called me up, and told me the story, and I told him I was the Great Turtleman, and every November, before I hibernated, I rose from the swamp and gave toys to all the good little boys and girls.  I was just pulling his leg, but he was dead serious.
Later, he was in England, while his wife was trying without success to get him to take his medications, and fell over a balcony at Heathrow Airport and got killed.
DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
 

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meetings. Congregants also voting while making resolutions. So, this is not any different from what world doing. Subjects are different. But many things about "worldly" things are not in opposition to Bible. If, people who leaving in one street or area have to do something for common interest, for example, to build new water system or rebuild old one, and it is needed to collect "information" of how many people are ready to contribute with money, or who are ready to and will sign contract (to vote) for that purpose, you need to use this sort of democratic process - to vote for or against something.
I would say how JW's are not against voting inside WT Society, but are against voting in secular life. Many things exists when decision is needed,have nothing with "politics"(state or political party things), but on other hand all in our life is politic anyway. 
Definition of politic
1: POLITICAL
2: characterized by shrewdness in managing, contriving, or dealing
3: sagacious in promoting a policy
4: shrewdly tactful
In that sense, JW as people who know what is good and how to accomplish this same, are in position to mandatory doing good because they know doing good. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. - James 4. JW not need to go voting for new senator, or president, but will doing good to not be so "indifferent", as they are,  in many other secular things in everyday life.
Yes, you are entitled to have such feelings. BUT Until That Time Comes, you have to care about your garbage, ecology, animals, electricity, new urbanistic planes in your place of living, safety or traffic issues in the street, etc. General standpoint of JW's about this is exactly what you called as ...  indifference. 
We are actively supporting only a future government of God .... and with this sentence you presenting what i try to explain. JW's are not active in supporting ... animal shelters or shelters for beaten woman and sexual abused children, homeless ...and so on.   

Would dying by refusing a blood transfusion be suicide?

To quote Arauna  "We are citizens of a future government and learning and adhering to the laws of this future government."
It would seem you are 'citizens' of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, and adhering to the 'laws' of it's Governing Body. 
@Srecko Sostar I like your last paragraph above. 
When Jesus was here on earth he healed the sick and helped those in need, in a physical way as well as a spiritual way.  Jesus has empathy and matched it with action.  Now did Jesus do this just to show what the future 'paradise' would be like, to show that through God's holy spirit he could solve all the problems of the people ? Or, did Jesus do those things because he really cared for the people ? Or both ? 
And thinking on the scripture from James concerning 'widows and orphans', is this action only to be used within the Org or more generally ? 
 

I love to listen some folk საქართველო songs. Very long ago i heard one on radio before going to work in early morning, and i can't find it never again. Title was, if i remembered well, Don't rustle, privet. (Ne šumi kalino - in Croatian) 
Perhaps you know it, Arauna ?
Perhaps that sound too democratic :))) Non-Aligned Movement

Excellent statement.  
It is the "word of God" that lives and imparts power, and discerns the "thoughts and intents of the heart". Heb 4:12  Can the words of men do that?  Can men judge another's spiritual outcome through their imposed "words"?  The organization does just that.  Disfellowshipping, a spiritual "killing",  is largely based on organizational doctrine.  Rev 13:15   Only God's Word is our judge, as stated in the scripture you supplied.   Men's doctrine does not contain life.   
 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.  Heb 4:13
 
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’  Matt 7:21-23
Do the scriptures say that God's will includes following men's doctrine?

In one hand this way of reasoning is valid. But, of course i need to notice this too. We can argue or make consensus about "core" teachings and about those that are "less" important teachings. If such categorization even exist!!! 
For example, blood transfusion.
1) CORE teaching is: we do not take transfusion of whole blood.
2) MINOR teaching is: we can take blood fractions.
What makes this two teachings to be in 2 categories? The 1) is command, mandatory and disobey such teaching brings you dfd and JHVH judgment. The 2) is not command, but your personal choice and no one will ask you to give report on your decision. 
Also, i would like to incorporate in this conversation and reasoning another element. But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned. ...... But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the Law to become void. - Luke 16 two versions
In this Jesus' words i see just opposite of common custom when WT Society and elders interpret, and you repeat it here, how some teachings are core and some are not. Why? Another reasoning we also find in Bible. If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. - Luke 16 With this looking on subject about teachings, that some  people consider to be somehow small or smallest in  significance and value, we see how Jesus' perspective is not on same level that people have, about what is big and important and what is small and unimportant.
With this what i wrote, I can't agree with explanation you offered, how some WT Society teachings are more important than others. Because, Jesus words showed me different way on how to look on details.
Also, as conclusion, few JW doctrines that are supposedly the truth, can't save you from judgement about others doctrines that are supposedly lie.  :))    But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. - Mat 12

In one hand this way of reasoning is valid. But, of course i need to notice this too. We can argue or make consensus about "core" teachings and about those that are "less" important teachings. If such categorization even exist!!! 
For example, blood transfusion.
1) CORE teaching is: we do not take transfusion of whole blood.
2) MINOR teaching is: we can take blood fractions.
What makes this two teachings to be in 2 categories? The 1) is command, mandatory and disobey such teaching brings you dfd and JHVH judgment. The 2) is not command, but your personal choice and no one will ask you to give report on your decision. 
Also, i would like to incorporate in this conversation and reasoning another element. But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned. ...... But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the Law to become void. - Luke 16 two versions
In this Jesus' words i see just opposite of common custom when WT Society and elders interpret, and you repeat it here, how some teachings are core and some are not. Why? Another reasoning we also find in Bible. If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. - Luke 16 With this looking on subject about teachings, that some  people consider to be somehow small or smallest in  significance and value, we see how Jesus' perspective is not on same level that people have, about what is big and important and what is small and unimportant.
With this what i wrote, I can't agree with explanation you offered, how some WT Society teachings are more important than others. Because, Jesus words showed me different way on how to look on details.
Also, as conclusion, few JW doctrines that are supposedly the truth, can't save you from judgement about others doctrines that are supposedly lie.  :))    But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. - Mat 12

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meetings. Congregants also voting while making resolutions. So, this is not any different from what world doing. Subjects are different. But many things about "worldly" things are not in opposition to Bible. If, people who leaving in one street or area have to do something for common interest, for example, to build new water system or rebuild old one, and it is needed to collect "information" of how many people are ready to contribute with money, or who are ready to and will sign contract (to vote) for that purpose, you need to use this sort of democratic process - to vote for or against something.
I would say how JW's are not against voting inside WT Society, but are against voting in secular life. Many things exists when decision is needed,have nothing with "politics"(state or political party things), but on other hand all in our life is politic anyway. 
Definition of politic
1: POLITICAL
2: characterized by shrewdness in managing, contriving, or dealing
3: sagacious in promoting a policy
4: shrewdly tactful
In that sense, JW as people who know what is good and how to accomplish this same, are in position to mandatory doing good because they know doing good. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. - James 4. JW not need to go voting for new senator, or president, but will doing good to not be so "indifferent", as they are,  in many other secular things in everyday life.
Yes, you are entitled to have such feelings. BUT Until That Time Comes, you have to care about your garbage, ecology, animals, electricity, new urbanistic planes in your place of living, safety or traffic issues in the street, etc. General standpoint of JW's about this is exactly what you called as ...  indifference. 
We are actively supporting only a future government of God .... and with this sentence you presenting what i try to explain. JW's are not active in supporting ... animal shelters or shelters for beaten woman and sexual abused children, homeless ...and so on.   

@JW Insider  Having just put my computer on (11 am UK time) I find i have eleven comments to read through. Your comment here is number one. So if anyone has already answered you I haven't read it yet, and I am just answering on this comment alone  
I see a lot of confusion here, but I'll try my best. 
Quote 'We're never going to get away from leaders who are imperfect and who will, by human nature, tend to ask us to believe 'and act only in a certain way. '   In short you are saying that the GB dictate to the congregants and the congregants are expected to obey. 
However, Quote 'Jesus' instructions to the 7 congregations was never about waiting for a governing body of apostle-like persons to tell them what was true and false teaching. It was the congregation's own responsibility to put to the test anyone who wanted them to be accepted as apostle-like.' 
(Revelation 2:2, 14) . . .and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars..
So there you have the GB that tells congregants to do as they are told and to  " believe 'and act only in a certain way. ' "
But Jesus said it was the congregations responsibility to put them to the test.  However if a member of a congregation does put the GB to the test, you and I know exactly what would happen to them. We can see on here what happens to anyone that should dare to say the GB are not the F&DS.  Even though the GB admit that they are not inspired.
And on that point, everyone should note that HUGE difference between our time, and the first century Christian time.
The leaders of first century Christianity WERE Inspired. The leaders, of any religion now are NOT inspired. That makes a huge difference when making any comparison. In fact IMO it takes away all comparison.  It also questions how anyone now would know if they are of the Anointed, if they are not inspired ? but maybe that is for another topic.
  2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. 
Well actually Jesus' disciples didn't practice and observe many of those things. Animal sacrifices, circumcision, probably the washing of hands (how many times ?)  etc.   
Quote "We can still follow, even "obey" religious leaders, even when we know they are very imperfect."
But would you honestly want to ? Would you want to go door to door with a message, if in your heart you knew it was not a true message ?  Overlapping generations for instance?   And would not your heart be heavy if you obeyed just to remain 'true and faithful' to your leaders ?  Hence worshipping the GB and its Elders. 
For instance I remember reading on here, and I'm sorry i cannot reference it,  about the GB /Writing Dept / Watchtower, saying it was OK for witnesses to tell lies as it was Spiritual Warfare. It may have been referring to Elders under certain circumstances, but to give the ok to tell lies. I think it was from a Watchtower publication and it looked genuine when i read it. 
"Put not your trust in earthling man (even princes/nobles) in whom no salvation belongs"
Didn't one of the GB make a statement that God trusts the GB so all congregants should trust the GB ?  Oh, I do wish I could find these things to show proof ! 
Anyway I'm sure you can see my quandary, and this is just with this one comment of yours. I have ten more comments to read yet. I need coffee  

Interesting that people will say the GB will not become like the Pharisees who tried to interpret more than the written word of God... I'm sure you have not read the Secret book of the elders "The Shepherd Book" that secret book itself is a proof how far they gone from the word of God.

In general, many people don't go to vote. I am not sure but in many countries less than 50% of population that have right to vote doing that. So, all of them will be target for "hate" :)) Perhaps basement would be good place for hide from haters. :))
There is about 22 countries where voting is mandatory.

Look Arauna, for example, we can talk about general population of people who belong to Catholic church, "just for the sake of argument" as can be heard on JW TV :)))))).  People as JW can make argumentation how general population of JW know Bible very well, and are able to defend their standpoint much better or absolutely better than some Catholic member. And how in some debate between JW and Catholic, better result would be on JW side.
But from whom JW member received such "knowledge"? From FDS aka GB who lives on WT Society account aka members donation money.
But GB said, and more important showed, how they made many errors in doctrines, and doing that same things today, too. Do JW members acknowledge this same thing - how they (you as group) do not really know the Bible. More than 200 clarification items proving the same, how GB do not know the Bible. Term "clarification" (in WT Society) is replacement, surrogate wording for ignorance.
Well, why would I, or you, be occupied with idea how only Me or You are in position of having best Bible knowledge  in comparison to some other religious group who also think how they know the Bible (better than others)??
 

@JW Insider  No disrespect but you didn't actually answer my questions, unless I'm a bit blind
Quote "The need to step down as an elder if your kids go to college is not enforced consistently,.."
NEED to step down, seems to show a dictated instruction. In my opinion it is a Man Made rule, not a direction from God. I would lump it into the 'traditions of men' category.   What do you think on that ?
Also I asked how old your 'child' was when they went to a college a long way away. Surely if they are of a certain age to make their own decisions then it was out of your hands. And why should the newspapers get knowledge of it ? 
The latter half of you last paragraph made me laugh. Quote " I have a lot of difficulty navigating platform assignments that promote .... " etc,  Um, a tactful way of saying 'I don't believe half of what the GB say but I'll stick with it anyway'   
And the, Quote "on which we might well be right .."  Fact is it's not WE that might well be right, it's following the GB's interpretations. There is no WE. There is only THEM ( at the top) and  congregants (at the bottom) .  And the congregants go out and preach exactly what they are told to preach (Workbook).  
Smiley faces as I'm trying not to be too serious about all this. No offence meant on any of it. 
 

In general, many people don't go to vote. I am not sure but in many countries less than 50% of population that have right to vote doing that. So, all of them will be target for "hate" :)) Perhaps basement would be good place for hide from haters. :))
There is about 22 countries where voting is mandatory.

:))) yes, supposed. Because "life saving information" have to come from GB onto worldwide elders and from them to flock. That is legal, legitimate and  official way how  "channel" of communication working and is blessed by god. :))))

You are asking the wrong question, Arauna, about people who have police power (bayonets) to enforce whatever their perspective is .... right or wrong.
The question SHOULD be... the question you should be concerned about is why does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society LIE to the Bulgarian Government that we do not impose congregational sanctions on those who accept blood... SPECIFICALLY, disfellowshipping, and and extreme shunning.
ANY JW, ANYWHERE, knows this is NOT TRUE.
THIS is what you should be concerned with.
Oh, as an aside, I still do not have my answer about are there congregational sanctions currently against a person voting in a political election.
The answers we get are so weasel worded that they can mean ANYTHING.
If you know better ... please correct me.
What I am looking for is the latest information, in light of Norway's threat to withhold MONEY from the Society, for violating what Norway considers one of the most basic of all human rights... and labeling us us as "extremists".
I strongly suspect because there is MONEY involved, we are soon, if not already, going to be allowed to vote without being censured or disfellowshipped.
 

MONEY .mp4

This could be true for some. No one was telling me I couldn't go to college, though. Their concern was that it would set a poor example to appoint an elder and then the congregation simultaneously found out I was going to college. But if a congregation needs elders, there is almost no difference in the amount and types of assignments given to ministerial servants. Even as an MS, I had been giving 5 different public talks (3 from the outlines), and was still being invited to give some of them in different congregations every few weeks. I believe I had either the 15 minute "Instruction Talk" or a 15 minute part on the Service Meeting about 3 times a month. And I was not told I had to pioneer, while attending college, but had offered this idea as a way to show that college was a not a full time priority in my life. No one held me to it anyway, as I only could manage pioneering for two more years. In my third year I was offered a great job and started it before graduation.
But still, it's always good counsel to give to anyone who is thinking about college, that they think about their priorities before making a decision. I've given the same counsel to others, but I make sure they still know it's their own choice, and we wish them all the best outcomes.
But then 30 years later, the issue comes up again with my own children. The need to step down as an elder if your kids go to college is not enforced consistently, at least in the United States. When children get large scholarships it can make it more sensible economically to go to a four year college, but it still gives the impression that you are putting economic and material interests ahead of the urgency necessary based on the shortness of the time to the end. The issue of setting a good example is not just for the congregation, but also the fact that you might not even have your own family in "subjection." Of course, kids go to college when they are 18, and I don't believe in "subjection" at this point in their lives. I believe in learning from my kids, and letting myself be subjected to hearing about what they are learning. 
I am not concerned too much about the Society's position on higher education. At this point, the economic benefits are too often a trap due to the high cost and doubtful employment outcomes. And although I'm sure I'd be welcomed to return as an elder, I am happy with all the things that can be done without the title. Also, you might know that I have a lot of difficulty navigating platform assignments that promote shunning, 1914, the sign, the generation, the "presence," and few other things on which we might well be right, but are too dogmatic about. I'm happy to wait until the pendulum swings in the direction of less dogma. Titles are not important.

But I don't think that's what the WT has in mind. When the WT talks about higher education it means getting a bachelors, masters or doctorate degrees (in the USA). An associate degree is only for 2 years and is more akin to a trade certificate, it seems neither are viewed as "higher education" by the WT.

If you will refer to what I actually said, Arauna, I said "many" ..... not all.
I faced 5 years in Federal Prison during the Vietnam War, and there were as many reasons why different people became conscientious objectors, as there were who became soldiers.

The ONLY environment I know of where it would be smart NOT to factor this in is religion, where apparently contributed money NEVER stops flowing in, like a Japanese Tsunami.
Double negatives make my head hurt!

It appears that Kingdom Halls, like old people, and radioactive materials, have a "half life".
I am 73, so statistically, half of people my age will be dead in 10 years. At 83, half of those people will be dead in ten years.
Then it speeds up.
At the end, I hope to read about it on the Internet .... BECAUSE ... I read FOXNEWS, and not CNN.

Um, empty K H's when the Governing Body say we are so close to the 'end of this system'. I thought there was supposed to be a massive influx near the end, not empty K H's. 
Actually it is quite difficult for a private person to get insurance for a minibus here in the UK.  The government seem to think it has to be for business use. And congregations will not support the running of a minibus, and elders make that clear. 
As for 'true Christians' travelling as far as it takes. That is not a loving thought. I know of older brothers and sisters that cannot drive in the dark. I think that here in the UK half of every congregation is old people. So where is this love that should abound in the 'truth' ?