Srecko Sostar

Does this way of thinking actually come from the 'world' ?  It seems to be a away of taking away the credibility of people.
I'm sure it's the type of thing you see in films, when someone wants to make another person feel insecure, or wants to make a person doubt themselves. 
If in fact the Governing Body are NOT inspired, then how would they actually know if someone else was ?  And i do think their attitude is passed down to the elders. 
A bit off topic but I had a funny thought.
Sometimes the Organisation is compared to Noah's Ark. However there were only EIGHT humans in that Ark and the rest were dumb animals that were controlled by those EIGHT humans.
Um how many members of the Governing Body are there ? Oh yes EIGHT.  And who in control of the Org ? Those EIGHT humans. Does make a person wonder exactly what the Governing Body thinks of all the rest in their Ark. 
 
 

Thanks @Matthew9969 for using WT magazines. This articles shows how GB want to present us, how mental illness was not started with "apostates" in recent time.
Wording "mental illness" is connect with WT Society context about result, outcome that is seen in JW members who think how they are sort of people who belongs to people known as 144000 class. 
They numbered several reasons why some JW member thinks about self as King and Priest aka part of 144000. They say:
in 1996
-after a while they acknowledged that this was an error
-an emotional response
-perhaps physical or mental strain
in 2011
-past religious beliefs
-mental or emotional imbalance 
in 2016
-mistakenly think that they are anointed
-mental or emotional problems 
It is obvious how WT Society is organization who looks on one part of members as people who have not mental and emotional balance. Perhaps GB say so, because of Jesus words how he is send to ill, sick people, and that also including physical, mental and emotional defects.
But we see how GB put this explanation on exactly one specific class or group of individuals inside organization - "anointed". On all anointed individuals who are outside of GB... or Helpers. Well, here we see how few anointed  individuals who are in position to call themselves as FDS who sharing spiritual food, decided to sending message through publications how only them are mentally, physically and emotionally in perfect health. All other are in question.  
Well, where insane people living? Inside or outside sanatorium?  

Thanks @Matthew9969 for using WT magazines. This articles shows how GB want to present us, how mental illness was not started with "apostates" in recent time.
Wording "mental illness" is connect with WT Society context about result, outcome that is seen in JW members who think how they are sort of people who belongs to people known as 144000 class. 
They numbered several reasons why some JW member thinks about self as King and Priest aka part of 144000. They say:
in 1996
-after a while they acknowledged that this was an error
-an emotional response
-perhaps physical or mental strain
in 2011
-past religious beliefs
-mental or emotional imbalance 
in 2016
-mistakenly think that they are anointed
-mental or emotional problems 
It is obvious how WT Society is organization who looks on one part of members as people who have not mental and emotional balance. Perhaps GB say so, because of Jesus words how he is send to ill, sick people, and that also including physical, mental and emotional defects.
But we see how GB put this explanation on exactly one specific class or group of individuals inside organization - "anointed". On all anointed individuals who are outside of GB... or Helpers. Well, here we see how few anointed  individuals who are in position to call themselves as FDS who sharing spiritual food, decided to sending message through publications how only them are mentally, physically and emotionally in perfect health. All other are in question.  
Well, where insane people living? Inside or outside sanatorium?  

All the redrawing and reshuffling of boundaries and the sell off of some Kingdom Halls and the merging of some congregations is probably because a few financial experts were finally allowed to sit down and ascertain the efficiency (or lack of) of the way Kingdom Halls were being used. They called it equalizing. When I hear brothers say that obeying the restructuring, and cooperating with moving to different halls is obeying Jehovah, (was also in a video) I can't help wondering why they don't just say it's because it saves money. Why bring Jehovah into it and make people feel like they're sinning against Him if they don't cooperate. 

I felt I needed to catch the speaker's words; they were, “apostates do not drift away from the truth”.  In my household, there are four individuals who use to live the life of a JW; me, a widely known disfellowshipped “apostate”, my husband who is not disfellowshipped but never hesitated to reveal the organization’s hypocrisy to the elders while still “in”, my son and daughter-in-law who eventually quit going to the meetings, and are not disfellowshipped but shunned by all JWs they may happen to see.  My daughter-in-law’s parents refuse to visit their daughter and grandchildren.  Out of the four of us, I am the only disfellowshipped vocal one, the other three just walked away, yet all of us are treated the same. 
Because of the act of shunning, wouldn’t you say that all four in our house are considered, “apostates”?

No new light, just the elder's opinion, and not a very good one at that. It still stands that Jehovah will be the judge as he knows the reasons and circumstance.

I will guess how many ex Bethel workers who lost their jobs after WT Society accepted a new economic and financial audit of operations within the corporation, ask for and received Letters of Recommendations. No matter of jobs they had in Bethel, from cleaning and washing to IT skills, those letters possibly helped some of them when looking for secular jobs.
I know one Bethel elder who left Bethel and because he has fine knowledge about computers, he open private business and now living from that. His wife also found secular job.
One sister who left Bethel as cleaner, have not easy time to found and keep cleaning work at secular job market.
Some other Bethel people lost place in Home, and went to pioneer service or looking for jobs.
I do not know what official credentials, diploma they have. But that depend on what secular school education they have had accomplished before Bethel. Only, as i learned by @JW Insider respond, Gilead School students received formal piece of paper as proof of finished education inside WT Society. All other, Bethel workers, can get Recommendation Letter. But I am not sure for  what secular jobs, Gilead School students, can/would candidate for in real word.
Funny thing i see in Recommendation Letter and Gilead Diploma. According to Bible verses in 2 Cor 3, JW rejecting such Letters and Diplomas as proof for their qualification about service, ministry (in teaching others about Gospel, using Bible as whole for teaching others) This including two things: 1) "spiritual" qualification for teaching , and 2) "spiritual" qualification for position in hierarchy (clergy style).  
On other side it is good if you have some paper as proof of your qualification .... for something. Or as proof how you have skills and experience in cleaning floors. Little irony,  you won't mind me .:))
I am working in one High School. For several years we have White Boards and board markers in almost all classes. Few smart boards, too.  Only in one room,  teacher (older generation) want to stay on white chalk and green board. Ministry of education, working on school reform  (new curriculum)  and equip schools with technological equipment.
In the same time teachers and professors in Grammar (children from 7-15 of age) and High school (from 15 - 18 of age) system, are in strike for better material position, salary. It is hard to find professor for IT subject to teach children, because they can find jobs with much better salary than in school.   

Thank you, i have read this already, but it isn't very recent.. My main point was to find out if the Governing Body / Writing Dept' has very recently written anything new regarding suicide. In the last 6 month maybe ? 
My personal feelings are that God, through Jesus Christ, will resurrect all those that they find worthy. And that 'worthiness' cannot be judged by any human. Thanks again.

First of all, i have to noticed this: WHAT sort of READERS would come to such idea to even ask such question?
Is it ADVISABLE for a C. MINISTER to give talk ...? ........ Good God!
Also, this question showed how JW's are under (influenced) general idea (of Catholic church) how suicide is consider as sin. Because God is Master of life and you have no right to end something what is given to you  (and to other people) as God's gift. Life belong to God, so He is only one who can give or take life. In such cultural-social environment, suicide is not viewed as something acceptable for member (or is in some black-grey zone).
Another thing, JW funerals talks are, in almost all cases, made in form to giving witnessing to non witness people. That is main reason for giving talk, and not so much about comforting of those who stay.     
i believe how many times, or almost always this questions are products of Bethel moves and strategy. Because, i can be sure how exist people who send some other letters/questions and such subjects not came under this section. Internet is place to ask unpleasant questions and to hear answers that is sometimes hard to accept.
 

Light is in you. JTR explained, in a kind way, do not look for some imaginable "new light" as something that coming from organized religion or corporation.

I don't know .... it changes so much I get a headache trying to keep up with "light" that is profoundly explained with hundreds of thousands of words, and a potload of scriptures, that backed it up ... all which turned out to be wrong!
I don't like headaches.

1.)  Jesus was on a mission that required him to walk into a trap, and be executed. He willingly did this knowing he would die, in a manner most painfull, where agony is an understated word.
In the Military this is called a "suicide mission" ... a concept that EVEY civilization INCLUDING the armies of ancient Israel fully understood.
2.) Jehovah NEVER prohibited suicide, and was well aware that there were circumstances where it was the only option available, as in the circumstances of King Saul's last battle.
3.) Jehovah never even prohibited cannibalism, which was widely practiced in Jerusalem under siege by enemies.... it is a CULTURAL taboo, not a prohibition from God.
Same thing with suicide.
As Brother Splaine of the governing body said in a video awhile back, "we" once had opinions on ever imaginable subject, and they were presented as inspired directives and pronouncements from God. The example he gave was the hidden and profound meaning that it was downhill from one town to Jerusalem and that camels walking downhill had one symbolic meaning, and camels walking uphill had another symbolic meaning.
To be kind, this was some writer's opinion only ... but it was presented as profound insight from the Word of God.  What it really was was unmitigated crap.  I had a LOT of respect for Brother Splaine as being the only sane person in the bunch, until he came out with the "overlapping generations" chart, and tried to explain that nonsense as TRUTH.
I suppose he could be reassigned to the basement janitorial closet of Bethel laundry room if he did not obey the directive, and that is why he did it.  Of course, again, I am trying to be kind.
How many THOUSANDS of times can you be wrong about everything in everyday life and still have credibility? I would have to quote Circus Master P.T. Barnum.
Four years ago my Siberian Husky got cancer in her right eye, and after several thousand dollars we thought it was "fixed", but it spread, and she was being eaten up by cancer, and we took her to the Veterinarian and had her painlessly executed. It was with great anguish on my wife and my part to have to do that, but that is what love and compassion required of us.
LOVE NEVER FAILS ... remember that one?
FOLLOW JESUS  ... remember that one?
What EXAMPLE did he set for all time, in considering whether suicide is or is not ALLOWED by Jehovah God?
He committed suicide by deliberately walking into a known trap, for the EXPRESS purpose of being executed.
AND JEHOVAH RESURRECTED HIM !
When the Governing Body admitted for the first time, and only time, that they were NEITHER inspired of God, or infallible, in the February 2017 Watchtower, my reaction was ...
DUH!
 
 
 
"Quod est necessarium est licitum"
That which is necessary, is legal
Like, AS JESUS POINTED OUT, rescuing a lost sheep on the Sabbath, when doing work on the Sabbath is expressly forbidden.
How much more that principle can be applied when there is no prohibition whatsoever.
Playing with and manipulating words and phrases to conform to cultural taboos that you already believe, all the way to your bones ... DOES NOT COUNT!
I am saddened by knowing that when my time comes ... and it will all too soon .... there will be no one at all among Jehovah's Witnesses  to show me the same love and compassion that I showed my dog.

We have, it seems two sort of "burden" or "yoke". And two ways how implement this in person?s life.
We have Jesus' "burden" he ask us to carry. 
And we see "Organizational" way of implementations of principles set by Jesus. Organization as such have need to broaden administrative system of ruling over people. If person want to candidate for some job, he have to give his CV and answer on questions by boss. If you want to be as volunteer member in one religious organization, not to be paid for work you done in own name, but under elders leadership, you are also obligated to be guided by some rules. It seems logical, BUT we have here some spiritual moments that make this 80 questions as human invention not empowered by spirit. In example of man who, after some time/hours of talking with Philip said, See, here is water!  
And this example is not unique in Bible.

I will guess how many ex Bethel workers who lost their jobs after WT Society accepted a new economic and financial audit of operations within the corporation, ask for and received Letters of Recommendations. No matter of jobs they had in Bethel, from cleaning and washing to IT skills, those letters possibly helped some of them when looking for secular jobs.
I know one Bethel elder who left Bethel and because he has fine knowledge about computers, he open private business and now living from that. His wife also found secular job.
One sister who left Bethel as cleaner, have not easy time to found and keep cleaning work at secular job market.
Some other Bethel people lost place in Home, and went to pioneer service or looking for jobs.
I do not know what official credentials, diploma they have. But that depend on what secular school education they have had accomplished before Bethel. Only, as i learned by @JW Insider respond, Gilead School students received formal piece of paper as proof of finished education inside WT Society. All other, Bethel workers, can get Recommendation Letter. But I am not sure for  what secular jobs, Gilead School students, can/would candidate for in real word.
Funny thing i see in Recommendation Letter and Gilead Diploma. According to Bible verses in 2 Cor 3, JW rejecting such Letters and Diplomas as proof for their qualification about service, ministry (in teaching others about Gospel, using Bible as whole for teaching others) This including two things: 1) "spiritual" qualification for teaching , and 2) "spiritual" qualification for position in hierarchy (clergy style).  
On other side it is good if you have some paper as proof of your qualification .... for something. Or as proof how you have skills and experience in cleaning floors. Little irony,  you won't mind me .:))
I am working in one High School. For several years we have White Boards and board markers in almost all classes. Few smart boards, too.  Only in one room,  teacher (older generation) want to stay on white chalk and green board. Ministry of education, working on school reform  (new curriculum)  and equip schools with technological equipment.
In the same time teachers and professors in Grammar (children from 7-15 of age) and High school (from 15 - 18 of age) system, are in strike for better material position, salary. It is hard to find professor for IT subject to teach children, because they can find jobs with much better salary than in school.   

One of the revisions that will take place next year is that for meaningful jobs after returning to the secular world, when they are "downsized", is to print the diploma on the side of a panel from a corrugated cardboard box, so that you can flip it over and write in large black crayon or felt marker something meaningful and appropriate, and visible from a car window as you stand on the side of the road, looking for work.
It makes a better impression when you use official corrugated cardboard.
 

I do not consider myself a god, or a sheep.
I consider myself a "Sheepdog", whose NATURAL instincts and "function in life" is to protect women, and children, and my family, and all innocent people, and if necessary, to engage in mortal combat with others who try to harm them.
...this even makes the sheep VERY nervous, but the reason many of them are sheep is not a desire to be peaceable with all men, as far as it depends upon them ... but because they are naturally stupid, and or cowards.
Andre: I have no idea what your last two posts mean in the real world.
Fine ideas from Scripture, but irrelevant to this post.
If I have missed something, please explain it to me in short words, short sentences, and short paragraphs, .... in your own words.
Otherwise, it is just "white noise". ... like a fan running while one is sleeping.
 

I would go back to fundamental reasons of that we talking about. No matter do we talking about revision, better understanding, new light, simplicity ......etc. point is this:
In what mental state has been all this individuals who made first, second, third, and so on with numbers, doctrine and then revision of that same doctrine?
Tom said previously how every person who are not in line with Jesus teachings (JW or not JW) is mentally ill. It seems how all authors and all who approved what was written in WT publications had mental issues and that is main reason for revision of doctrines. Just repeating Tom's idea with new wording :))) 

Yes.

... and failed catastrophically, too.
:)))) I can't recall what verse in Genesis about Adam and Eve in Paradise speaking  how God gave to Adam authority over Eve. I am not sure in what direction you going with next sentence:  
.... and with this:
After this comment:
I am not sure what ideology, idea you promote? or you just made parody on issue :))

TTH:  "There are actually two men whose name is a type of tree.  Both are pseudonyms, the specific trees are different, and one was chosen as a tribute for the other.  I think the two have been confused with one another here."
I had in mind the Redwood tree, which is related to the Cedar, and both are in the family of the Bald Cypress.  But...why must we speak in code anyway?  

Church ‘shuns‘ 15-year-old, then father – ends up in court
Posted by SDD Contributor on November 9, 2019 at 4:20 am  
The Supreme Court of Canada heard arguments Thursday in a lawsuit against a religious congregation’s “shunning” practice, but the congregation and several other groups contend the justices had no right to even take part in the case.
Randy Wall, a real estate agent, filed the suit against the Highwood congregation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization in Calgary, Alberta.
Wall was expelled from the congregation for getting drunk and not be properly repentant, court records said. He pursued an appeals process through the Jehovah’s Witnesses then went to court because he said the Witnesses’ “shunning” — the practice of not associating with him in any way — hurt his business.
He explained his two occasions of drunkenness related to “the previous expulsion by the congregation of his 15-year-old daughter.”
A lower court opinion said: “Even though the daughter was a dependent child living at home, it was a mandatory church edict that the entire family shun aspects of their relationship with her. The respondent said the edicts of the church pressured the family to evict their daughter from the family home. This led to … much distress in the family.”
The “distress” eventually resulted in his drunkenness, Wall said.
 
Wall submitted to the court arguments that about half his client base, members of various Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations, then refused to conduct business with him. He alleged the “disfellowship had an economic impact on the respondent.”
During high court arguments Thursday, the congregation asked the justices to rule that religious congregations are immune to such claims in the judicial system.
The lower courts had ruled that the courts could play a role in determining whether or not such circumstances rise to the level of violating civil rights or injuring a “disfellowshipped” party.
The rulings from the Court of Queen’s Bench and the Alberta Court of Appeals said Wall’s case was subject to secular court jurisdiction.
A multitude of religious and political organizations joined with the congregation in arguing that Canada’s courts should not be involved.
The Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms said in a filing: “The wish or desire of one person to associate with an unwilling person (or an unwilling group) is not a legal right of any kind. For a court, or the government, to support such a ‘right’ violates the right of self-determination of the unwilling parties.”
Previous case law has confirmed the right of religious or private voluntary groups to govern themselves and dictate who can be a member.
But previously rulings also reveal there is room for the court system to intervene when the question centers on property or civil rights.
The Association for Reformed Political Action described the case as having “profound implications for the separation of church and state.”
It contends the court should keep its hands off the argument.
“Secular judges have no authority and no expertise to review a church membership decision,” said a statement from Andre Schutten, a spokesman for the group. “Church discipline is a spiritual matter falling within spiritual jurisdiction, not a legal matter falling within the courts’ civil jurisdiction. The courts should not interfere.”
John Sikkema, staff lawyer for ARPA, said: “The issue in this appeal is jurisdiction. A state actor, including a court, must never go beyond its jurisdiction. The Supreme Court must consider what kind of authority the courts can or cannot legitimately claim. We argue that the civil government and churches each have limited and distinct spheres of authority. This basic distinction between civil and spiritual jurisdiction is a source of freedom and religious pluralism and a guard against civic totalism.”
He continued: “Should the judiciary have the authority to decide who gets to become or remain a church member? Does the judiciary have the authority to decide who does or does not get to participate in the sacraments? Church discipline is a spiritual matter falling within spiritual jurisdiction, not a legal matter falling within the courts’ civil jurisdiction. The courts should not interfere. Here we need separation of church and state.”
The Alberta Court of Appeal, however, suggested the case was about more than ecclesiastical rules.
“Because Jehovah’s Witnesses shun disfellowshipped members, his wife, other children and other Jehovah’s Witnesses were compelled to shun him,” that lower court decision said. “The respondent asked the appeal committee to consider the mental and emotional distress he and his family were under as a result of his duaghter’s disfellowship.”
The church committee concluded he was “not sufficiently repentant.”
The ruling said “the only basis for establishing jurisdiction over a decision of the church is when the complaint involves property and civil rights,” and that is what Wall alleged.
“Accordingly, a court has jurisdiction to review the decision of a religious organization when a breach of the rules of natural justice is alleged.”
 
               

If he's honest, he surely admits that he has caused people to view scripture differently than how Jesus taught it. Otherwise why would he give a talk in October 2014 where he said that a very well ingrained method of teaching the scriptures was about to change? And the basic reason for the change was because he said it didn't currently line up with the style that Jesus used when he taught. It was NOT the way of teaching that God approved.
Somewhere between 100 and 200 doctrines changed, based on that talk he gave in 2014. They were changing because, as his theme scripture stated, the Governing Body was to become more faithful and discreet and follow Luke 10:21 which was tied to "how Jesus taught" and which said: "Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved."
Now if he was changing 100 doctrines to become aligned with the teaching method Jehovah approved, then he must have believed that he was previously NOT following the teaching method that Jesus used: the method that Jehovah approved.
If you don't believe this, then you might as well say that the change was made just so that things wouldn't seem stale.
Of course, based on our history, it's always quite possible that some teachings have been currently been added which cause us to view scriptures differently from the way it was taught in Scripture itself. What caused us, for example, to decide that the "higher powers" or "superior authorities" were God and Christ when Russell and nearly a thousand years of Christian commentary had it right. Surely, you admit that the teaching in 1961 was wrong, and this is the reason it was changed in 1962.
Up until a few weeks ago, we taught that the "locusts" of Joel 2 referred to Jehovah's Witnesses, and just now Brother Splane ( https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/2019-Annual-Meeting-Summary/ ) has stated that the locusts refer to God's enemies, just as nearly 100 percent of Christendom's commentaries have been saying for hundreds of years. This teaching was already "clarified" in 1961. ( https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1961883 ) and is still on the website as current in the "Revelation . . . Grand Climax" book. ( https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988022 ) Again, you might have guessed that Russell had already claimed that the locusts could not be God's people. D543 R362:3 R5527:1 Q23:7
So this is not really clarification at all. Russell teaches that the "superior authorities" are secular not God & Christ. Rutherford "clarifies" this (1929) to say they are God & Christ and not secular. Then in 1962, it is "clarified" again to say that it is secular and not God & Christ.
Same with the locusts. Russell teaches that they cannot be God's people. Then the Watchtower "clarifies" that these locusts are God's people. Then Brother Splane "clarifies" that these locusts are not God's people. So far, the website only says the following.
Brother David Splane clarified our understanding of the prophecy recorded in Joel chapter 2 describing a swarm of locusts. We look forward to studying this clarified understanding when it appears in The Watchtower.
I think it's easy to see that this will clarify that the teaching was wrong up until a few weeks ago. A wrong teaching is always misleading. But it does not necessarily follow that the person teaching it wrong is "mentally diseased" as you said would be true of any who taught something misleading.
Several would say that the overlapping generation teaching is wrong the way that Brother Splane explains it. You might say that anyone who teaches that this explanation is wrong is misleading by the teaching of Christ and God's words. But what if Brother Splane, next October, begins to agree that the way he explained it was wrong, and says that a new "clarified" teaching is now going to be taught? It seems like you would say that the persons who were right were misleading, and Brother Splane was not misleading when he was wrong.

No Allen....I mean Tom. Revision is a good thing. The problem is when we state something as fact one year, and then change it the next. One thing is building on an idea, pretty much the way technology and the medical field develop, but another is completely changing ones mind. The equivalent is maybe what psychologists do, they seem to change their minds, one time they say it's better to let a child do what it wants, and then when negative results are reaped, they say it's better to discipline a child. A kind of trial and error approach. Similarly, when what JW's teach does not work out, then we try the next "theory". Think generation.

I agree. And you even not need to be obsessed or zeal with/for something, but still doing wrong thing.
That is what i have in mind. But also is important where you are in that moment (spiritual and literal place). If such person is observed from/by people who not belong to same ideology it could be viewed as "fanatic" (zealous or obsessed, it would not be too much difference)  
Even inside own group, various levels of "spirituality" that individuals (and others around) have and shows, that individuals see as desirable and good, as the qualities that people around and god himself expecting of us to have them, can be in range from, what fellow brotherhood consider as, normal, role model zeal to something what can be very confusing and doubtful.