Srecko Sostar

In order to make the case to courts that Kingdom Hall properties all belong to the WTB&TS, irregardless if whose names are on the Titles, the Society has claimed, in court, under oath, that they are a hierarchy, EXACTLY like the Catholic Church, and are entitled to confiscate and sell the properties as the Society sees fit ... NOT as the the people who built and paid for the Kingdom Halls see fit.
I think this will take a colossal bite out of their collective butt.
Especially since they DO claim, also in court, under oath, that they are entitled to "clergy-penitent privilege", the same as the Catholic Church.

 
 

I think how @Foreigner is robot... most of the time. He/she is in down vote crusade, again :)))) 

.... or can it be other people read those works and combined it with the Watchtower to have asked a witness about it, ....
Do you suggest by this how non-JW people are so interested to know what JW's have to say about some subject on world events - in particular, about 1975 - ? I think that you can count on fingers of one hand, it is so small number of non-JW who would, who was talking about 1975 in religious manner, in that period of time when WT Society publication put effort to emphasized 1975 as very important year to humankind in connection to Bible prophesies about Last days, Armageddon, Salvation, Kingdom. 
I think that 1975 has been of Important interest, in JW Unique Way of Bible Doctrines, only to JW members inside JW Organization. Because they have read about 1975 in own publications, of course, and not in Washington Post or in National Geographic, for example.
 But, because we been presented here how also other non-JW people were speaking about 1975, from their standpoints, it is possible to conclude how JW's has been trustful only to WT Society Spiritual Leaders and not to some other religious or secular sources. By that what we know how JW members are warned to be very careful about any other sources of information, it can be say how JW's in period before 1975 have been very obedient and listen only that what WT Society said about 1975. 

@BillyTheKid46I found this on internet:
It seems how Structures in WT are well educated in talking about end of the world. :))
 

"Like","Upvote", and "Thanks"

[I'm separating this post from the one it was combined with above:]
Back in 1956, when Armstrong's "1975 in Prophecy!" magazine was written, the Watchtower was still teaching that 1976 was the end of the 6,000 years. Note the words highlighted in blue and red in the following three Watchtower articles, especially the part about how long it took Adam to name the animals.
The first link is to the Feb 1, 1955 Watchtower "Questions From Readers" on jw.org.  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1955089
According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam’s creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began.
Why, it must have taken Adam quite some time to name all the animals, as he was commissioned to do. . . .
The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date.
When the 1955 article was updated in 1968, 13 years later, note how the line about the accuracy of the chronology remains the same (almost verbatim in blue) but the line about the animals (in red) has changed: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968602#h=59
Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? . . .
This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time.
By October 1, 1975, the Watchtower changed back to the 1956 style statements about Adam and how long it might have taken to name the animals: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1975720
During that time, God had Adam name the animals. Whether that period amounted to weeks or months or years, we do not know. So we do not know exactly when Jehovah’s great “rest day” began, nor do we know exactly when it will end. The same applies to the beginning of Christ’s millennial reign. The Bible provides us no way to fix the date, and so it does us no good to speculate when that date may be.—Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 24:42, 44.
However, the Bible’s time clock does indicate to us that 6,000 years of human history end in this year 1975. Early in God’s “rest day” Adam became a rebel against God-rule. Thus, for the most part, the first 6,000 years of man’s history have been marked by man-rule.

Fortunately, Dilbert anticipates your every word BTK46 .....

Ohh, do not worry, this is just for public fun and entertainment. :)))

LOL. I saw that coming as soon as I asked the question:
In what sense do you believe that there are two periods of 1,260 that make up the 2,520?
Nearly the same thing happened when I asked Allen that question.
You haven't shown where. A proposition given without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I know you made that claim. But without evidence. The problem with your theory is that when Russell and Barbour continued the Herald, it was still very much an Adventist publication. That didn't change. The book "Three Worlds" that they published in 1877 was steeped in Millerite Adventism, so much so that you see the way they concluded it with a defense of Miller in the section on "William Miller's Dream" above. It even copied the "seventh month" movement. But it was a date-adjusted Adventism with very similar interpretations of the same time periods. With Barbour's MINOR adjustments to make Miller's end dates move 30 to 45 years further into the future, Russell kept these very similar time period interpretations throughout the entire series of Studies in the Scriptures, and these doctrines were generally kept until 1927, with a few of them remaining until 1943. Even before Russell influenced him, Barbour, still a full-fledged Second Adventist, had already moved Miller's start date for the 2,520 years from 677 BC to 606 BC (based on Bowen/Elliott/etc). This made the period nearly the same as John Aquila Brown's use of the 2,520 years.
Your theory that Barbour was done with Second Adventism apparently has no evidence, unless you know of some that you are not sharing. But there is plenty of evidence that indicates your theory is not true. I actually agree with you that Russell's ongoing work in the Watch Tower was based on "new light" that progressed further and further toward clearer truth, and further away from Barbour's influence and the influence that other Second Adventists had on Russell. But this couldn't happen completely until 1927 (to about 1933) when the WTS was finally finished selling off the remaining stocks of Studies in the Scriptures.
It seems likely that you are able to keep your claim alive only by changing the definition of Adventism to a special definition that works for you. If this is the case, then you are only arguing semantics. It's probably another one of those cases where anyone else is a liar "with Satan in their head" if they use a word the way a dictionary or Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, uses it, instead of a way that you need them to use it to fit your own ideology.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Adventism
I don't point to that article to say they are right about "Jehovah's Witnesses" but to give you an idea of the "definition" of "Adventism" and "Second Adventism."

This might be a good time to explain again that this original topic was not about whether the Watchtower writers were being honest back in 1966 through 1975 about the expectations for the weeks, and months surrounding 1975. It was supposed to be about whether we are honest NOW in the way we defend those past expectations for the mid-1970's.
When this topic started it was back around a year ago when we were still discussing a video produced for the "Don't Give Up" 2017 Regional Convention.
That was part of the point. With all that was said and known and documented by those who lived through it, why did the WTS decide there was more to say about it in 2017? And, of course, was it honest?
I find it curious that, for some persons, if "person A" doesn't use a word in the same way "person B" needs it to be used in support of Person B's ideology, then Person B might become very sensitive to supposed "distortions." One of these same persons, like "Person B" can be so sensitive to the supposed distortions of others, but are still able to ignore the fact that the WTS was ACTUALLY distorting something. Here's what I mean:
Discussing the 1975 period, the video says:
“Back then, some were looking to a certain date as signifying the end of this old system of things.”
Notice that the expression is merely "some were looking to a certain date." It doesn't mention that the "some" were being directed to this particular time period surrounding 1975 by writers of the Watchtower publications, and by special talks given by District Overseers, and by parts given at circuit assemblies counting down the actual number of months to 1975. It doesn't mention that Witnesses were counseled if they did NOT think 1975 was significant. Among about 100 references to evidences in Watchtower publications from 1966 to at least 1974 regarding the importance of this period, we find counsel like this:
*** w75 5/1 p. 285 ***
Does this mean that we know exactly when God will destroy this old system and establish a new one? Franz showed that we do not, for we do not know how short was the time interval between Adam’s creation and the creation of Eve, at which point God’s rest day of seven thousand years began. (Heb. 4:3, 4) But, he pointed out, “we should not think that this year of 1975 is of no significance to us,” . . .
So was it honest or was it misleading to merely say "some" were looking to a certain date? The video implies that we are expected to believe that groups of Witnesses in all parts of the earth would come up with such speculation on their own and then spread it among the brothers, and expect them to accept it on their word.
Then the video says:
"A few went so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs."
This implies again that these "some" Witnesses were even crazy enough to go so far as to sell their homes or quit their jobs. But again, who were the "some" involved in this craziness? Were they counseled that it would be a good thing to do, or were they ever counseled against it? We already know the answer:
*** km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***
Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.
The Watchtower publications also counseled that young ones would never complete a career in this system of things, they were even counseled not to start schooling for a professional career because it was so unlikely that this system would even be around any more in just a six or eight years. Remember that this was stated only 6 years before 1975:
*** Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***
If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!
Then the video says:
"I admit, I was ready to see this old system go away too, but something just didn’t seem right. Both at meetings, and in my personal study, I was reminded of what Jesus said: 'No man knows the day or hour.' "
Again, what was the counsel at the time? It's true the scripture was sometimes brought up. But the counsel was to NOT use that scripture to downplay the reason we were supposed to be looking forward to 1975:
*** w68 8/15 pp. 499-501 pars. 30-35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
. . .
1975! . . . AND FAR BEYOND!
. . .
35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end.
I think we've seen this played out before. When 1925 came and went just 50 years earlier, Rutherford said he made an "ass" of himself. Brother Franz often quoted that as if it were some kind of humble apology. But did Rutherford ever admit this to the brothers and sisters in the congregation? Some accounts show that it was only to a small audience, not even all of Bethel at the time:
*** w84 10/1 p. 24 ‘Jehovah Has Dealt Rewardingly With Me’ ***
Regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he once confessed to us at Bethel, “I made an ass of myself.”
To the Watchtower readers, no one took any blame. There was disappointment, evidently because some had read too much into the "conclusive proofs" they had been given:
"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time. Later the faithful learned that these dates were definitely fixed in the Scriptures; and they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date" (Vindication, Vol. 1, pp. 338-39).
In other words, the "apology" actually just claims that the dates were correct all along (definitely fixed in Scriptures) but that there was a measure of disappointment because things didn't work out as they had been "predicted," although they soon got over it, and learned to quit fixing dates.
This is a lot like the way that segment of the 2017 video ends regarding 1975:
"After that year came and went, most of those who had wrong expectations made the needed adjustments."
In fact, note the identical idea in the "Proclaimers" book, about 1925:
*** jv chap. 7 p. 78 Advertise the King and the Kingdom! (1919-1941) ***
The year 1925 came and went. Some abandoned their hope. But the vast majority of the Bible Students remained faithful.
It might also be noted that this "vast majority" who remained faithful is not reflected in the fact that the numbers increased greatly up to 1925 so that there were more than 90,000 memorial partakers recorded in 1925, which then dropped in 1926 and 1927 and was down to under 17,500 in 1928. That was clearly not just 1925, but it was certainly related to the fantastic growth seen in the years just prior to 1925, which was halted immediately by the end of that same year. (If we count the total effect of all doctrines and changes within those 24 to 36 months following 1925: 17,500 is not a vast majority of 90,000.)

It is heartbreaking to hear the woman who expects her family to reject her for speaking out. She is very brave.
One thing, the video mentions a bill in the US Senate that would require clergy of all faiths to report child abuse. It appears that that bill is on hold due to lack of support. I am very disappointed that our country is choosing to protect institutions and abusers over children. https://sd13.senate.ca.gov/news/2019-07-09-senator-hill-places-senate-bill-360-hold

https://www.vl.no/nyhet/fjern-statsstotten-til-jehovas-vitner-1.1569015
This story is out today!
For context:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/cn1oag/made_national_news_on_government_level_today_hit/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/cnzy6z/massive_exposure_today_regarding_jw_and_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/cpqji8/my_written_opinion_regarding_jwvoting_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
Google translate of today's development:
-Remove the state aid for Jehovah's Witnesses
MDG (Green Party) believes Prime Minister Kjell Ingolf Ropstad has only one choice: -Remove state aid from Jehovah's Witnesses. Ap (Labour Party) thinks he should have taken hold of the religious community a long time ago.
Vårt Land revealed last week that members of Jehovah's Witnesses can be expelled from the faith community if they vote in elections. Kjell Ingolf Ropstad (KrF), who is in charge of the Solberg government's belief and life policy, went out saying that voting rights for Jehovah's Witnesses could be the basis for withdrawing state aid.
At the Storting (parliament), the parties look differently at what reactions the religious community should meet with.
The clearest
MDG says it clear. The party believes the practice revealed must have serious consequences for Jehovah's Witnesses, spokesman Arild Hermstad said.
«Should Ropstad Withdraw State Aid When Religious Communities Urge Members Not to Participate in Democratic Elections?»
-«Yes. It is not acceptable for religious communities to put pressure, ban, or punish those who choose to vote. It is an obvious violation of human rights and a violation of Norwegian law. If they do not change practices, we believe they should not receive state aid,» says Hermstad.
The point of view is far supported by Rødt («Red»). Vice President Silje Kjosbakken says they "are looking into the possibility of depriving Jehovah's Witnesses support":
-«We will not ban religious communities that ask members not to exercise their voting rights, but we see no reason to give them public support either.»
Boundaries
Kari Henriksen in the Labour Party believes that Ropstad as Minister of Religion should have addressed this earlier.
«I'm a little surprised that Ropstad didn't know about the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is known that they will not vote, but perhaps less well known what the consequences it will have for members who choose to vote,» says Henriksen, who is a member of the the cultural and family committee in the parliament.
«Ropstad should be invited to dialogue with Jehovah's Witnesses before threatening to deprive the state aid,» says Henriksen.
She believes that state aid should be an active tool for engaging in dialogue with closed faith communities.
«Today, the state would rather report after the aid has been distributed. Now that this has happened, Ropstad should have invited Jehovah's Witnesses to dialogue, stating clearly where the boundaries of the larger community are going.»
Surprised
SV's Freddy Øvstegård sits on the same committee as Henriksen.
«When I was younger, I knew several Jehovah's Witnesses who were politically interested but had to hide this. Therefore, they were secret members of youth parties. This was talked about in the Christian environment, so I'm quite surprised that the reactions from Ropstad are only coming now,» says Øvstegård.
He believes that Jehovah's Witnesses are not alone in having a problematic religious practice.
-«We have to be consistent in the treatment of human rights violations in several faiths. Norway must become better at cracking down on all forms of social control across religious groups.»
«Do you think it was right for Ropstad to threaten to wothdraw the state aid?»
«Yes, certainly given that they deny their members the right to vote. This is serious, and it is only now that we see this kind of abuse so clearly.»
The Center Party (SP) spokeswoman - and member of the same committee, Åslaug Sem-Jacobsen, says that the party "has noted that the Minister of Religion is now addressing the matter and will discuss it with the concerned county people":
«We hope it does not take too long and will listen to the government's assessments as they come.»
Reactions
The ruling parties are careful to comment on the possibility of state aid cuts for Jehovah's Witnesses. But KrF's parliamentary representative Jorunn Gleditsch Lossius says she "responds":
«If it is true that members of Jehovah's Witnesses can be excluded and excluded if they use the right to vote, I react strongly to this.»
«Should state aid be withdrawn when religious communities urge members not to participate in democratic elections?»
«The prime minister has now asked the individual county council to assess whether there have been violations of democratic rights and principles. And there will always be a delicate balance towards upholding freedom of belief.»
Basic
Kristin Ørmen Johnsen (H), chair of the Storting's Family and Cultural Committee, has one comment:
«It is a fundamental right to be able to vote in elections, and it is unacceptable if someone is prevented from using their right to vote.»
Left-wing faith and life-spokesperson Grunde Almeland says voting "one of the most fundamental rights of Norwegian citizens":
«If authorities threaten individuals using this fundamental right with sanctions, it is, as I feel it, an abuse of power.»
Undermines
The Progressive Party (FrP), as the only government party, is clear that they do not want to distribute state aid to any religious community.
«I think the matter gets extra serious when religion is used as an anti-democratic press», says Frps representative in the Family and Culture Committee, Morten Wold, and add:
«Faith is a private matter. Once we have public support for communities of faith and beliefs, it is absolutely essential that they do not undermine democracy and violate fundamental human rights.»
Picture in article. Photo: Xueqi Pang - the journalist.

A letter from the Spain branch was sent to elders informing them about what to do if anyone is assaulted on the carts/trolleys during public witnessing.
The letter is dated 10th July 2019 and includes a sheet with instructions that must be included with each cart. This means that we now have a legitimate document to be able to reason with active JWs.
 
The document is entitled "What to do in the case of aggression during public witnessing activity?"
First point it mentions is to call the police IMMEDIATELY, not the branch, hence highlighting that Watchtower value preaching carts more than the lives of abused children (where the Bethel branch must be called first).
 
But the real point of this post is this: Look at point 3. "If you file a complaint at the police station, what should you say?" Amongst other things, it clearly states that "carts must be reported as the property of the brothers involved in this incident" and they've even underlined it. They stress that JWs "should not say that the carts are the property of the religious denomination or congregation."
 
With me so far? Maybe you don't see anything wrong with this so let me refer you to the Elder's manual (Shepherd ver 2019, Chapter 23, point 9: Public Witnessing Equipment).
There it clearly states that "The equipment will remain the property of the congregation."
 
So why are Watchtower clearly asking their members to lie to the police in an official report? Go back to point 3 in the instructions to get the answer:
 
"The police will probably ask who owns them in order to facilitate the option of asking for compensation." Ah good old money... at the root of most things that motivates Watchtower.
So next time you see the JWs on the carts, ask them if their conscience permits them to lie to the police, not for "theocratic warfare" but for monetary compensation? What would Jesus think about that?

"The Great Tribulation has arrived!"

This is a Civil case. They won't be found "guilty" per se. They'd be found negligent or liable or whatever Zalkin is trying to prove in this case. The penalty will be financial, and there may be some stipulation of turning over documents or agreeing to meet with victims to discuss policy updates to prevent future victims. Watchtower has a huge history of not complying with those types of orders though.
VIDEO : https://www.kcra.com/article/silent-no-more-part-1-the-survivors/28659357#
The complete opposite of discreet.

For the majority of survivors of abuse, the new law is a welcome legal tool, but only for citizens of New York State. However, for Jehovah’s Witness victims, the legislation is far more significant. The Witness organization is headquartered in New York, which means that any and all cases from all 50 States are eligible where the Watchtower Organization is a defendant.
The key to filing such cases revolves around Watchtower’s decades-old policy in which allegations of sexual abuse are handled internally as matters of “sin”- but are rarely if ever reported to law enforcement.
---------------
As stated by New York’s Government Web Site, this new law:
Provides that the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution of a sexual offense committed against a child shall not begin to run until the child turns 23 years of age. Provides that a civil action for conduct constituting a sexual offense against a child shall be brought before the child turns 55 years of age. Revives previously barred actions related to sexual abuse of children. Grants civil trial preference to such actions. Eliminates the notice of claim requirements for such actions when the action is brought against a municipality, the state or a school district. Requires judicial training relating to child abuse and the establishment of rules relating to civil actions brought for sexual offenses committed against children. These stipulations represent landmark changes to New York laws protecting minors, which previously placed unrealistic limits on the time given for victims to come forward and report abuse, or file a civil lawsuit seeking justice.
Experts in the field now recognize that it may take 25, 30, 35 years or even longer before a victim of childhood abuse is able to disclose the crimes committed against them.

@BillyTheKid46I found this on internet:
It seems how Structures in WT are well educated in talking about end of the world. :))
 

In observing BillytheKid46's irrational and hateful posts, I have noticed a correlation between them and the Dilbert Cartoon of the day.  It seems that whatever Billy is talking about ... the cartoon of the day explains his perspective from the viewpoint of reality.  It's just AMAZING!
Of course, coincidence is NOT causality, but it sure is spooky how many times the Dilbert Cartoon of the day explains whatever it is Billy is talking about.
Of course, it may be a coincidence that there is no photograph of Ernest Borgnine, and Elizabeth Taylor in her later years, together ... some say it's the same person ... but that is one of those mysteries ... like how the Egyptians built the Pyramids.
Presented for your consideration ... is the Dilbert Cartoon for today.

@BillyTheKid46I found this on internet:
It seems how Structures in WT are well educated in talking about end of the world. :))
 

No. I've told the truth. Just because you oppose the truth, this does not make me a liar. Not once have you ever provided even a shred of evidence. Yet, I've probably made several mistakes over these last few years here. I would welcome any correction of any kind, and you've had 2.5 years under the name BillyTheKid46 to provide something.  It's rare that you have even made an attempt. Usually it's just bluster of the sort that claims you disagree and therefore anyone who disagrees with you must be a liar.
LOL. I don't claim to come from Bethel. I come from California, Missouri, and New York, mostly. I happened to work at Bethel in Brooklyn, NY from 1976 to 1982. It's even on my old work resume. Telling the truth doesn't make me a liar and a hypocrite.
Then you should think about it. It might be a refreshing change of pace. I think there would be a lot less haughtiness, dishonesty, pretentiousness and contentiousness.
My comments can be used anywhere anyone wants to use them, with or without attribution. Several people have asked, and I've always said Yes. You can try to make a book out of these comments and sell it, for all I care. I've been requoted on a couple of apostate sites, and Witness pages, too. Jesus said to give to anyone who asks of you, and not turn away anyone who would borrow from you.
And by the way, you claim that this site is an apostate site, and yet you directly contribute to it.
Actually I would love for you to start showing people where I have manipulated or distorted Watchtower publications. I don't believe I have, but I'd be happy to discuss any places where you believe this has been the case, and I will gladly admit the mistakes and make the corrections wherever I was wrong. I should add, of course, that your own use of the literature appears to be blatantly manipulated and distorted. Even under this very topic you have made statements that appear to contradict the Watchtower's teachings, while evidently pretending that you agree with them or understand them.

(No, I haven't taken time to download the nifty app., so just providing the link)
 

@BillyTheKid46, I guess that after you have called me and others a lot of terrible names, and after making a lot of false claims about me and others, that I should probably respond in the spirit of 1 Peter 3:15, especially since I made this thread at least partly about "honesty."
Since you have provided no evidence, except for some evidence that helps my case, and hurts your own, I really don't need to do anything more than just let you know that your opinions are mostly wrong and misleading. I know absolutely that nearly all your claims about me are wrong. And I think some of those claims are also dishonest, but I don't know enough about you to judge that for sure.
Also, for those many times when you appear to be the most disingenuous, you simultaneously give evidence that you cannot help but project onto others any of the negative things that your mind tells you might be true of yourself. For this reason, I do not consider you dishonest in many cases, since this is just a reflex in some people. For reference, I'll give a definition of this kind of projection from Google:
Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.
You may not know this about yourself, but you sometimes make the projection obvious by even repeating portions of the exact vocabulary that disturbed you. A couple of times you have even devolved to the simplest kind of projection, reminiscent of the PeeWee-Hermanesque retort: "I know you are but what am I?"
For this reason I'm not at all insulted by your insults, but I feel sad for how well it explains your reflexive thinking. It makes me think that, at least subconsciously, every false thing you have said about me is something you are concerned might be true about yourself. To me, therefore, you are only insulting yourself.

Well, thank you for correcting my idiocy. My source of this quote was incomplete.  But how does it prove to be a false claim? That 1914 was not predicted as the coming Armageddon and the ushering in of the Kingdom? 
Under the same subheading:
THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE KINGDOM,
AND HOW IT WILL MANIFEST ITSELF
 "In our previous studies of the subject we learned that the “Times of the Gentiles,” which occupy the interim of time between the removal of the typical Kingdom from Israel and the full establishment of the true Messianic Kingdom upon the ruins of the present kingdoms, will end in October A.D. 1914.  We have seen that the period of our Lord’s presence from 1874 to 1914 is a “harvest” time, the [page 617] earlier part of it for gathering his elect bride, and the latter part a time of trouble, for the overthrow of present institutions, in preparation for the new Kingdom."  

For those in Rio Linda, the preceding post was a synopsis of everything "1975".
That quote from the 1974 Kingdom Ministry, for anybody above the thinking ability of a chicken, says it all about, did the Society REALLY expect 1975 to be the end of this System, and Armageddon?
THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE is that it was a deliberate money-grubbing fraud, and they KNEW they were telling a lie.

Choose!