Srecko Sostar

I like how you put this.  Yes, it is about a big change.
 
Clouds, angels and heaven: 
Matt 24:30 - “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.”
Heb 12:1 – “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us”
God’s “great cloud of witnesses” are those whom He has chosen, his sealed priesthood.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10
Rev 1:7 - “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
    and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
    and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.
Jude 1:14 – “It was about these that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied: "Look! The Lord comes with tens of thousands of his holy ones”
2 Thess 2:7,10 –   “and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels…when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.”
Eph 2:6 - and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus
Heb 12:22,23 – “But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the assembly of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven.”  (Rom 8:29)
Rev 3:12 – “The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple (1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16)  of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.”
Angels of heaven, the clouds of heaven, all refer to the “144,000”, the Bride of Christ.
Jesus returns with his Bride of "living stones" sealed in the Temple, and "admired among all those who believe".   (Zech 4:7-10)
“The New Jerusalem” – “I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.”
 
2 Cor 11:2 – “I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.  But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.”
This “virginity” is related to spiritual cleanliness. 
Rev 14:4 – “These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.”
 
“Women” represent covenants. (Gal 4:26)  Entering a spiritual relationship with those who preach “another Jesus” results in spiritual adultery. 
 
 
 
 
 

Oh dear Kid, you talk as if you are better than me. In fact you twist truth and call me names because you know I speak truth.
You live in a dream world just worshipping the GB and It's Org. Hero worship and idol worship rolled into one. you think God approves of that ? 
As for Srecko, i think he may have been on this forum before I ever joined it. I do know that he has his own mind and his own words and is not a puppet for anyone, that can be clearly seen in his input. 
But maybe you are that Alen person others talk of, maybe you were removed before and have returned with a silly cowboy name. 
Could be that you are sly just like those men you worship. 

Understanding each other, to some level, yes. To explain my thoughts about WT list of sins and separation inside that list, and how that is not good, a little more.
For example: Shepherd book 2012
21. Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false
witness: (Prov. 6:16, 19; Col. 3:9; Rev. 22:15; it-2
pp. 244-245) Though all lying is bad, judicial action
is taken only if there has been a practice of deliberate,
malicious lying. “Malicious” means deliberately
harmful, harboring ill will or enmity. Lying that justifies
judicial action involves more than just exaggerations
or petty, misleading statements of relatively
minor consequence or lying because of momentary
pressure or fear of man.—Matt. 26:69-75.
22. Generally, elders should not consider administering
discipline if a Christian charges another Christian
with making false statements in a court dispute.
For example, this may involve divorce, child custody
and support, and so forth. The Christian making the
charge can express his concerns to the court that has
the responsibility to determine what is truthful when
rendering a judgment.
Bible verses used in Elders book:
16 here are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17  haughty eyes, a lying tongue,  hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil 19    false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
In this and other WT Instructions about that how JW member are NOT ALWAYS OBLIGATED to TELL THE TRUTH, in other words how LIES are GOOD sometimes and not needed to be Judicially Processed is 100% opposite of what God has said in Bible. 
As I can remember what was written in Bible in other places too, God has never said (or gave that impression) how,  for certain lies there is a license, and that for some other lies there is a punishment. 
WT Elders by this given rule, as new moral principle, have free hand to establish illusory justice, illusory truth based on perverted idea how lie is truth and truth is lie. Isaiah spoke about that also.Woe to those who call evil good and good evil who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet  and sweet for bitter.
When JW Church leaders are ready to justify lies and not want to take disciplinary measures against liar than they are in opposition to God and to His words in Proverbs. Words they put in print in WTJWORG publications to explain how lie is not always a lie. Terrible!

No, Billy. Sin is sin. Only consequences/aftermath/aftereffects of particular sin/crime are DIFFERENT. 

Partially you are right, .......BUT do not forget fact that eliminate your logic.
All sin against God are also sin against all things what God has created (in this case your brother). 
All sin against things what God has created (in this case your brother) is also sin against God. 
Because God created your brother/neighbor, He as his Creator is also sad, injured, stricken with injustice act you done against your neighbor or brother.   
So, all "general" sins are sins against God. All "personal" sins are sins against God too. I made two terminology ("general" and "personal" sins) because of for your way of thinking. Sins are sins no mater who doing it or to whom is directed. God is Judge for all sins of all people, not just for your JW brother. 
Jesus' teachings are possible to using in every religion and in every society, not only inside JW congregation. By that, i think, have an opinion, how God will not measure JW sins in different way than sins from Catholics, Mormons or Atheists. :)))

Of course that problem is sensible in every way and angle.
For example: I get drunken (to what level drunk?), once or in few occasion. And others witnessed to that. And because it is easier, they comment that in their group and rumors start. Let say, one of them decide to report my behavior to elders because he is "righteous one" and his conscience not allowed any more to see me in congregation having public talk, with knowledge i love to drink. After that elders decide to speak with me. 
Now you have this position. Elders and few of others know about your "problem". How you look like in their eyes? Let say how only 2 elders know that and few witness of my drinking, and perhaps few more because people love to talk. Well, one part of congregation already know something about me. And they take some position about me in that sense. 
If whole congregation get to know about me and my drinking, what is difference? Number, only that. 
What is important, is not the number of those who know or not know about my drinking. Important is, what congregants would, will thinking and feeling for me after introducing, knowing me in this way. Real "division" inside congregation would come not because of public knowledge what i have done, but because of "division" inside people hearts and minds, who will be able or not be able to endure, bear with - not me - but with themselves, with own hearts and perceptions about life and all inside them and around them. "Spiritual Paradise" would collapsed.  An unrealistic, distorted picture of "reality" would have to come to an end. 
Love your imperfect neighbor, even love your enemy, love your fallen brother is at stake - not artificial unity of congregation!   
:))

I made fun just for fun. But, in history there was at least few situation when money and gold worth nothing in specific part of world and in specific situation. People already trowed material thing verbatim and figurative in the past and present time.   

Maybe this picture is Photoshop Propaganda from those who prefer Electronic Money aka Bitcoin :)))))) 

Understanding each other, to some level, yes. To explain my thoughts about WT list of sins and separation inside that list, and how that is not good, a little more.
For example: Shepherd book 2012
21. Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false
witness: (Prov. 6:16, 19; Col. 3:9; Rev. 22:15; it-2
pp. 244-245) Though all lying is bad, judicial action
is taken only if there has been a practice of deliberate,
malicious lying. “Malicious” means deliberately
harmful, harboring ill will or enmity. Lying that justifies
judicial action involves more than just exaggerations
or petty, misleading statements of relatively
minor consequence or lying because of momentary
pressure or fear of man.—Matt. 26:69-75.
22. Generally, elders should not consider administering
discipline if a Christian charges another Christian
with making false statements in a court dispute.
For example, this may involve divorce, child custody
and support, and so forth. The Christian making the
charge can express his concerns to the court that has
the responsibility to determine what is truthful when
rendering a judgment.
Bible verses used in Elders book:
16 here are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17  haughty eyes, a lying tongue,  hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil 19    false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
In this and other WT Instructions about that how JW member are NOT ALWAYS OBLIGATED to TELL THE TRUTH, in other words how LIES are GOOD sometimes and not needed to be Judicially Processed is 100% opposite of what God has said in Bible. 
As I can remember what was written in Bible in other places too, God has never said (or gave that impression) how,  for certain lies there is a license, and that for some other lies there is a punishment. 
WT Elders by this given rule, as new moral principle, have free hand to establish illusory justice, illusory truth based on perverted idea how lie is truth and truth is lie. Isaiah spoke about that also.Woe to those who call evil good and good evil who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet  and sweet for bitter.
When JW Church leaders are ready to justify lies and not want to take disciplinary measures against liar than they are in opposition to God and to His words in Proverbs. Words they put in print in WTJWORG publications to explain how lie is not always a lie. Terrible!

Who do we know that makes decisions in "inner rooms" as if they are the Head over all JWs? If I say it, I might get busted.  
Matt 24:24 - For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect ("chosen" 1 Pet 2:9).

@BillyTheKid46 If you are referring to me then please explain to me my 'ideology' as you seem to pretend to know me better than i know myself
Quote "Therefore, for people like John, if a person is caught watching child porn versus someone getting caught for child molestation, this activist wants the same judgment and punishment."
Do I ?  I think not actually. If a JW commits a crime then I want that JW punished for that crime. 
How the Elders deal with the sin is down to GB rules, but how the authority deals with the crime is down to the Laws of that Land. 
In my opinion if any JW is found to be doing anything wrong in connection with / relating to / involving children, then it should be made known to the whole congregation asap. And in fairness to / showing love of neighbour, it should be made known to the local community too. Obviously it would only be made known after there was sufficient proof. 
Remembering the 'Good Samaritan' story which Jesus told, it had it's meaning of course. But if it were a true happening then there would have been an investigation to find and punish the robbers.  Anyone knowing who the criminals were would surely have to tell those in authority. It would surely have been their Christian duty to protect their neighbours. 
Do you really think it is right to hide such criminals within any organisation ? 
So returning to your comment Billy 'watching child porn or child molestation', both need reporting to the authorities and if they are JW's then both need reporting to the Elders. 
As you or others have said, the Elders are there to deal with spiritual matters not criminal matters. So there is a need to report it also to outside authorities that have the authority from God to deal with criminal matters. 

Maybe this picture is Photoshop Propaganda from those who prefer Electronic Money aka Bitcoin :)))))) 

Maybe this picture is Photoshop Propaganda from those who prefer Electronic Money aka Bitcoin :)))))) 

Good additional supporting scriptures.  It just doesn’t make sense,  1914, there is just too much scripture against that date being when Jesus became king. 
Then that leads to the question of why would the wt insist on 1914?

I hope JWs pay attention to your post, Shiwiii.  Yes, I agree that having  "all authority" qualifies one to kingship.  
"And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, with angels and authorities and powers having been subjected to him."  1 Pet 3:21,22
"having been subjected" - 
KJV:  angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
AMP:  with [all] angels and authorities and powers made subservient to Him.
NIV:  with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
 
"A declaration of Yahweh to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
 Yahweh will send out your mighty scepter from Zion;
rule in the midst of your enemies.  Ps 110:1,2 
 
Stephen, when being stoned to death:
But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.  And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”  Acts 7:55,56
Here, he stands, with authority and power to accuse Stephen's persecutors.  Why doesn't the Watchtower want to recognize Christ's ruling authority since he received it? 
 
Adding another scripture:
 But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God. Luke 22:69
And, using Ps 110:1,2 we can see that while he is seated at God's right hand, he is ruling as King.  
 
 
 

wt and jws believe 1914 was the parousia of Jesus and His being enthroned king. After Jesus resurrection He made this statement" 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 
If at this time when He was with the disciples after His resurrection He had all authority, what then is there for Him to acquire in 1914? Isn't "All authority" already the qualities of a king? What more authority is there to gain if He has it all? 

Melinda, I don't believe this is speaking about Jesus, but is addressing God who lives in unapproachable light.  
"I command you, in the sight of God who gives life to all things and Christ Jesus who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,  that you observe the commandment without fault, irreproachable until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,  which he will make known in his own time, the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,  the one who alone possesses immortality, who lives in unapproachable light, whom no human being has seen nor is able to see, to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen."
The passage is speaking about God who gives life and who will make known the time when Jesus returns.  Jesus could not be the only Sovereign when we know God is Sovereign.  
"And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them..."  Acts 4:24
Deut 10:17; Ps 136:2,3; Ps 47:7
To Moses,  - 
 "But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”  Exod 33:20
But Jesus will be seen when he returns -
"And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”  Acts 1:11
How do you account for Ananias seeing Jesus in a vision and speaking to him?  
God is King of kings and Lord of Lords; Christ has received that title also.   Rev 17:14
 

you are adding things to His coming. When He comes, it is not in an invisible cloud, it is seen. This part of Him being in unaproachable light, sure if He stays there, but He will not, He will come and be visible just as he said.
 

I swear that stuff is only $23 per bottle at my local supermarket.

Interesting point, one in which I have also questioned concerning the jws. This semantics of word play of parousia vs coming is only used when the shoe fits whenever I have spoken to a jw. If we look at the context of Jesus' words in Matthew, we see His proclamation against the thought of invisible observance . 
 
Matthew 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
 
Here Jesus is saying that if someone tells you "oh, He's is in the inner rooms, or somewhere else that you cannot see right now", it is a lie and for us not to believe it. This is because He told us that there WILL be false prophets who say such things. 
 
Not to mention the whole 1914 as His parousia and being enthroned king. After Jesus resurrection He made this statement" 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 
If at this time when He was with the disciples after His resurrection He had all authority, what then is there for Him to acquire in 1914? Isn't "All authority" already the qualities of a king? What more authority is there to gain if He has it all? 

The end is close. I can feel it.
 

Of course that problem is sensible in every way and angle.
For example: I get drunken (to what level drunk?), once or in few occasion. And others witnessed to that. And because it is easier, they comment that in their group and rumors start. Let say, one of them decide to report my behavior to elders because he is "righteous one" and his conscience not allowed any more to see me in congregation having public talk, with knowledge i love to drink. After that elders decide to speak with me. 
Now you have this position. Elders and few of others know about your "problem". How you look like in their eyes? Let say how only 2 elders know that and few witness of my drinking, and perhaps few more because people love to talk. Well, one part of congregation already know something about me. And they take some position about me in that sense. 
If whole congregation get to know about me and my drinking, what is difference? Number, only that. 
What is important, is not the number of those who know or not know about my drinking. Important is, what congregants would, will thinking and feeling for me after introducing, knowing me in this way. Real "division" inside congregation would come not because of public knowledge what i have done, but because of "division" inside people hearts and minds, who will be able or not be able to endure, bear with - not me - but with themselves, with own hearts and perceptions about life and all inside them and around them. "Spiritual Paradise" would collapsed.  An unrealistic, distorted picture of "reality" would have to come to an end. 
Love your imperfect neighbor, even love your enemy, love your fallen brother is at stake - not artificial unity of congregation!   
:))

Well the scripture says speak to the congregation. But if a brother or sister did speak to the congregation they would be accused of 'causing a division in the congregation' 
And even when a person is disfellowshipped the reason is not given, it's kept hidden from the congregation..
Makes is soooo easy for them to disfellowship people easily for no scriptural reason.  Just the way one Elder threatened me. 
There are so many scriptures that prove that the GB and it's Org do not serve God through Christ. 
 

@Srecko Sostar I made the new topic. Not @The Librarian
I thought it needed to be answered for the entire site and all the clubs inside.
Thanks for making the comment. It will clear it up for many thousands in the future years.

In the religious explanation of what is sin and how to deal with the person who makes the wrong things, the application of Jesus' words within the JW Church says that "minor" sins should be solved between the parties involved, but "greater" sins need to be reported to the elders at the assembly/congregation. This is the official WTJWORG doctrine.
The first dilemma that we are immediately noticed in the theological approach to these biblical paragraphs is seen in the unfounded separation of a certain human act into a small aka minor sin versus great aka big sin. WTJWORG had made a list of sins that were put in to two category by its nature; minor sins and gross sins. And of course there is third element in this issue of sins, and that is when something is questionable to such extension, that at very moment no one of Bible Scholars inside WTJWORG doesn't know the right answer, and as solution such issue is putted into so called "gray zone". 
If we agree in idea how Jesus Teaching/s is/are Sufficient for all "dilemmas" we might have in life than we can see from this Bible verses as follow:
15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. - NIV
15  “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault* between you and him alone.n If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.o 16  But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony* of two or three witnesses every matter* may be established.*p 17  If he does not listen* to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen* even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nationsq and as a tax collector.r - NWT
1) Jesus not have a list of sins, either not making categorization of sins into minor, middle, gross, and so on. 
2) All sins have to be resolved firstly between involved parties (in our days this have to be viewed from other angles in cases of child molestation, for example)
3) Because there is no list of sins: What is viewed as sin in your eyes perhaps is not also a sin in the eyes of your neighbor. So, this first approach to other person may help to established some mutual foundation on someones act. 
4) Speaking about unresolved problem in a wider circle of people can be helpful if involved persons are in capacity to be involved in discussion. Word "witnesses" here refers of people who are able to testify about all what was said between you and him/her, you two who have problem. These are not witnesses of "wrongdoing".   
5) Making issue public is third step here. Public. Congregation is that public, not 1,2 or 3 elders. In front all congregation. 
6) If things are not resolved and you as plaintiff, claimant are not sattisfaied, or if whole congregation is against "sinner", how such person have to be treated? As man of nation and tax collector. How Jesus treated men of nation and tax collectors? Answer is clear to me. Is it to you?