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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit   
    Yes. This goes all the way back to Russell's "Photo-Drama of Creation" which emphasized the 49,000 years of creative days. I don't think anyone here has denied that this is what we taught. But in the 1970's, the cracks in this view were already beginning to be seen. It had become a way to put more emphasis on 1975. But it was also realized that 1975 could become an embarrassment. And the Aid book, produced by a team led by R.Franz, had provided evidence that the very foundation for all this emphasis was built on sand.
  2. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit   
    What a load of tosh and rabble !       None of this really matters does it ?
    It's becoming a hate and judgement page !
    I'm an ex JW and yes my personality has gone down hill since leaving the Org, but some of you are JW's or pretending to be, and I'm quite surprised at the attitude of many. I've always been a rebel and you know why as I've given you my life story,  but many of you will at your Sunday meetings, all smiles and pretend 'love' for the congregation. Yes here it has become a war zone.
    TTH talks about the 'worldly wicked' and how we need the swat team to keep us in place. But this forum has become the war zone of keyboard warriors. I do not see one ounce / gram of love in any on here. 
    I know I'm no better and yes the rafter is big in my eye, but I'm no longer a JW so I've dropped a lot of the hype. But many of you are supposed to be JW's, the 'only true religion' remember ? Where is your love ? Jesus said we should love our enemies, not try to 'get one over on them'. Everyone on here seems to have the same reason for being here, just to out do the others. 
    Srecko is the only person that I have found to be genuine. TTH is too busy gaining material for his books  The rest are just bent on getting the upper hand. I don't think Jesus worked in such a way. 
     
  3. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit   
    Ok so the GB and JW  org is run on notions. 
    notion Dictionary result for notion
    /ˈnəʊʃ(ə)n/ noun   1. a conception of or belief about something. "children have different notions about the roles of their parents" synonyms: idea, belief, concept, conception, conviction, opinion, view, thought, impression, image, perception, mental picture; More             2. an impulse or desire, especially one of a whimsical kind. "she had a notion to ring her friend at work" synonyms: impulse, inclination, whim, desire, wish, fancy, caprice, whimsy "you can't expect us to fire any of our staff just because you get a notion to come back"  
    The second explanation seems to fit the GB.
     
  4. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit   
    It is understandable for me to see your disappoint about R.F. or similar characters inside JW. Yes, perhaps your view about him is correct. But for many of us is of less concern why he wrote a book about GB and WT. We can feel sorrow for him or we can say he is/was hypocrite. Nevertheless, information's we get from his inside insight about WT GB mechanism are more important then he alone. Because "The Truth" is in question, not he, not me, not you. 
    He was the one who has must struggle with HIS conscience why he stay inside and support all wrongs he knew about, despite knowledge he had. He was the one who has been responsible for covering this too long and so on. I do not care, in final stage of matter, what was his motive. Only important thing for me is;  Is it that or this, what he said, true?      
  5. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in PUT FAITH IN A VICTORIOUS ORGANIZATION   
    The magazine cover below was posted here on the same day I had come across one of its articles. March 1,1979
    "The desire to share with Jesus Christ in the vindication of Jehovah’s universal sovereignty became a most powerful motivating force in the lives of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It strengthened them to endure the worst persecution that ever befell Jehovah’s Witnesses—during World War II. So Jehovah’s visible organization came off victorious once again to his vindication. For dedicated, baptized persons to share in that victory, what did it take? Faith in Jehovah’s theocratic organization. Did the remnant of spiritual Israelites and their theocratic companions, the “great crowd” of Christ’s “other sheep,” have such victorious faith? Yes!"
    Those were the days, apparently.  I see no further “victories” of such on the horizon for the Watchtower at this time. Unless,  they twist the Russian situation into one of victory, proclaiming their faith in “Jehovah’s organization” helped them endure the persecution that has come upon them. However, many JWs have attempted to flee the country, which doesn’t reflect well on the power of their “haven of refuge”.  (WT 82 9/15 pp. 17-22)  
    How does persecution and horrific deaths of JWs equate to an earthly organization gaining victory, and justifying God?  This “mountainlike” organization was not able to protect them from the terrible Nazi onslaught, nor has it been able to do so today in Russia.  Instead of God justifying himself, the organization justified or vindicated its existence as worthy of praise, as the recipient of one’s unrelenting faith, even in the face of persecution and death.    At the willing sacrifice of many on its behalf, it appears powerful, mighty and victorious. This is how I see the disgusting truth behind the underlying message in the opening Watchtower quote.   
    The organization has a few descriptive terms:
    Jehovah’s “earthly organization” professes to be “no part of the world”:
    As in the first century, so in this twentieth century, Jehovah has an earthly organization. It can be identified by its fruits. Unlike the many religious organizations that are part of the world that is alienated from God and that profess to be his organization, IT HAS NOT ALLIED ITSELF WITH THE POLITICAL GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD.   It, therefore, shares none of the responsibility for the unchristian things done by those governments. w65 7/15 p. 427-428 
    A “visible theocratic organization” that has established a “worldly” identity:
    Being adapted to modern conditions and requirements and being obliged to render to Caesar Caesar’s things, the visible theocratic organization today HAS A LEGALLY ESTABLISHED SERVICE AGENCY, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, incorporated in 1884 under the laws of the state of Pennsylvania, United States of America. w54 9/1 p. 533 
    Now notice what the 1884 “official magazine Watch Tower” has to say about organization:
    “We belong to NO EARTHLY ORGANIZATION; hence, if you should name the entire list of sects, we should answer, No, to each and to all. We adhere only to that heavenly organization—‘whose names are written in heaven.’ (Heb. 12:23; Luke 10:20.) All the saints now living, or that have lived during this age, belonged to OUR CHURCH ORGANIZATION: such are all ONE Church, and there is NO OTHER recognized by the Lord.  Hence any EARTHLY ORGANIZATION which in the least INTERFERES with this UNION OF SAINTS is CONTRARY to the teachings of Scripture and OPPOSED TO THE LORD’S WILL—‘that they may be ONE.’ ( Joh 17:11.)” 
    What a beautiful, captivating truth, which led God’s anointed people into eventual idolatry.  We now see that the Watchtower no longer follows this mission statement, but highlights the organization as absolutely necessary to acknowledge as one’s salvation.   Amos 3:5; Luke 21:34-36; Rev 20:7-9  
    w72 6/1 pp. 328-333 – “As we approach the universal war of Armageddon it is vital to stay close to Jehovah’s mighty organization.”
    We have a mighty, mountainlike, theocratic, even “spirit-directed” organization, still unable to protect its people. Judges 10:14; Rev 13:1,7,11,15 
    We also see that the “union of saints” is not possible, since a false priesthood/elder body has INTEREFERED with their ability to be one body under their Head, Jesus Christ.  The Watchtower now states “such efforts (to bond) would cause DIVISIONS within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity”. ( w16 January p. 24)  This is so strictly enforced that the elders have been given authority to spiritually “kill” any who reject their ruling position and the organization’s pseudo stance as “theocratic”.  Col 1:18; Eph 5:23,26,27,30-32; 1 Pet 4:10; 1 Cor 12:24-26; Rev 13:15,16; Matt 24:48-51 
    A lot has happened since 1884 when Russel wrote his words in the Watchtower, hasn’t it, JWs.    He would be disfellowshipped today if he were to voice this belief to the present governing body. 
    Only when all the parts of the body submit to Christ as head, will they find harmony, affection, agreement, and unity,
    according to the arrangement of God, who supplies order and peace. 1 Cor 14:33; 1:10; 7:17; 14:32,40; Rom 9:16
    Those who have humbly submitted to the Body's arrangement by God  (1 Cor 12:18; 11:29,31,32), have found that order and peace, and relief from the confusion which is the condition of those still under "Babylon the Great",
    whose very name, means "confusion" ("Babylon"). (2 Cor 12:20; 1 Cor 1:11,12; 3:3; 4:6,18; James 4:1; 1 Cor 11:19)
    There is little time left for the anointed to recognize what is required of them and to conform,
    leaving behind their rebellion, idolatry, and spiritual fornication, to make peace with God (Isa 1:18-20). If they do, their sins will be washed away (Isa 48:20; Jer 31:11; Matt 24:12).
    and they will be given a white robe....sealed as a vessel of Truth (Zech 3:1-10; Isa 4:2; Ezek 17:22; Zech 4:10).   Pearl Doxsey - "Unity of Christ's Body/Armageddon"
    According to the 1884 WT, INTERFERENCE against the union of the saints is the SIGN OF OPPOSITION to the Lord’s will; and aptly describes the “Man of Lawlessness” who OPPOSES and EXALTS HIMSELF above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the TEMPLE of God, showing himself that he IS God.”  2 Thess 2:4  It is a “disgusting thing standing in the holy place”/Temple of God, an “abomination” representing the spirit-directed “image” of divine authority, which IS the organization. Ezek 44:6-9; Dan 9:27; Exod 20:3-6; Rev 13:11,15,4  
    “They have placed their abominations in the house that bears My name and have defiled it. 35 They have built the high places of Baal in Ben Hinnom Valley to sacrifice their sons and daughters in the fire, (or “pass through the fire”) to Molech—something I had not commanded them. I had never entertained the thought that they do this detestable act causing Judah to sin!  Jer 32:34,35
    Today, to “pass through the fire” indicates to me a dedication and sacrifice of oneself to submit to evil; a fiery proof, contrary to refinement leading to personal victory in Christ.  It is the condemnation based on the Word of God.  Spiritual harlotry and idolatry results when one puts faith in a present day “Molech”, above our required faith in God. 2 Kings 17:17; Lev 18:21; Ezek 20:31; Jer 3:6,7;2 Pet 2:3; 1 Cor 3:13-15; Jer 23:29  
    Baal means “Master”; Molech has the meaning of “master” “king”, but also "the most common word for chief magistrate" (“commander of an army”)    
    Revelation tells us of two Beasts, two Masters, a dual spiritual power over God’s saints and many peoples during the last days. Dan 2:31,33,40-43; 7:7; Rev 13:1,2,11-13  
    They revere or “worship” the first Beast, putting faith in its magnificent “spirit-directed” abilities, to lead them into a promised peaceful paradise. Rev 13:4,14,15; Ezek 13:10; Hos 4:12   For this offer, they are willing to face persecution and the loss of physical life if necessary, on behalf of ”Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization”. 
    The army which the “Beast with two horns” gives authority to, is the “abomination” spoken of in Dan 11:31.  Rev 9:1-6;13:12  With eyes that are open, this transgression against God’s Temple is well observed as ‘sitting in’ and ruling over the anointed Temple of God, as directed to do so by the Beast/false prophet/Harlot.  2 Thess 2:3,4;1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 19:20 
    It is the Man of Lawlessness – an army of elders or “magistrates” which has received authority to oppress and “conquer” the anointed ones.  Dan 8:24; Rev 13:7  
    Is the Watchtower Beast/Master truly “conquering” the saints?  Yes.  Conquering is the language of war,  which we are presently in; the war of Armageddon. Luke 21:20; Matt 24:3,24,25; 9-11,13,21; Dan 12:1,4
    They are overcome by demonic expressions issued from the “dragon”, the Beast, and the second Beast/false prophet/Harlot.  Rev 16:13,14; Eph 6:12  For those who stand up to both Beasts, the “kings” and their “magistrates”, and who are persecuted for defending their faith in God and truth in Jesus Christ, they are symbolically “killed”; yet, they come alive in Christ. Mal 3:5; Eph 2:3-8; Rev 11:3,7,11; Matt 19:29    
    It is known among all JWs, that those who take their stand against the GB’s decrees carried out by the elders, are disfellowshipped, which the organization considered a spiritual “death”.  This is the irony in teachings by this Beast.  Those who sacrifice their life on behalf of “Jehovah’s organization” are viewed as the victorious ones. Those who sacrifice their symbolic life for their testimony to Christ are considered worthy of eternal destruction. Jer 23:14; Matt 26:65; Heb 13:13; 12:2; 1 Pet 4:14,16; Rom 6:5; Matt 5:11; John 15:21; Acts 5:41; Rev 3,5,6  
    A movie was made a while back about the prophet Jeremiah.  It is a movie of drama and scriptures combined, but there is one scene at the temple, that I will never forget.  Jeremiah is speaking to Zedekiah the last king of Judah, before the temple was destroyed and Israel went into exile to Babylon. He had earlier pleaded for the nation to submit to Nebuchadnezzar’s rule, but Judah was ready to battle against him.  (Jer 38:14-23) 
    Jeremiah:   “Obey I beseech thee, the voice of the Lord  which I speak unto thee and your life will be saved, and the city will not be burned.”  
    Zedekiah:  “So, now you’re speaking for the Lord again.  Well, never mind, our armies are prepared.”   
    Jeremiah:  “How can you continue to LIE to yourself as well as your people?” 
    Zedekiah:  “TRUTH is in the eyes of the beholder.” 
     Jeremiah:  “The word of the Lord which I speak to thee, IS the truth.” 
    Zedekiah:  “The Lord which you ask me to seek…is SILENCE.  If God has something to say to me, why does he send you to tell me?”   
    Jeremiah:  “Why would the Lord speak to you, unless you’ve committed your life to HIM.” 
    Zedekiah:  “I HAVE.” 
     Jeremiah shakes his head, turns swiftly toward a set of large wooden double-doors, and flings them  open to reveal statues of idols.    
    He says, “Instead of making monuments to false gods, make your LIFE a living monument to the word of God.”   
    Zedekiah:  “It is as my people desire.” 
    Jeremiah:  “You are KING!  They look to YOU for leadership!  Your pursuit of your own pleasure, wealth and power HAVE TAUGHT THE PEOPLE TO TRUST IN FALSE GODS!” 
    He raises his voice even further,
    “YOU HAVE LED THEM TO BELIEVE THAT THE ONE TRUE GOD…IS NOT ENOUGH!” 
    JWs, is God alone NOT ENOUGH for you to put faith in?  Can you see that the faith you give to a most unique idol, a “spirit-directed” visible organization, can lead to your downfall?  Your leaders have convinced you to trust in a false god! The people in Jeremiah’s time believed that the presence of the “temple of the Lord” would save them, even though they harbored their idols.  Jer 7:3-5, 9,10  
    What is your temple today?  Is it the organization?  It appears so, yet if the anointed were not in the Watchtower from the beginning, there would be no difference in your religion than any other in Christendom.  You may have forgotten who they are, these anointed “living stones” whom God expects their sacrifices to be heard and in harmony with pure truth in Christ. However, an “abomination”, a false priesthood of elders, has muscled its way in to rule over God’s Temple priesthood.  Ultimately, JWs DO practice the same hypocritical worship as Judah in Jeremiah’s time, by proclaiming their trust and faith in God, while also having full trust and faith in the organization, and the “kings” who brought them into a falsehood called “truth”.  Your leaders have sought out pleasure and wealth in material possessions, that they admire and praise (Warwick). Luke 4:5-7 They have slowly developed an unquestionable power over God’s anointed and YOU, TEACHING you to revere a monumental idol.  This idol has made the brazen promise of eternal life to those who “worship” it.  As Zedekiah said in the movie, “truth is in the eye of the beholder”.  2 Thess 2:9-12
    When Joshua went up against Ai, they were defeated because one member “committed a trespass” regarding the “things set apart for destruction”, the “accursed”, the “doomed” that he brought into the camp.   Deut 13:17  
    Josh 7:110-12 –“Israel has sinned. They have violated My covenant that I appointed for them. They have taken some of what was set apart. They have stolen, deceived, and put those things with their own belongings.12  THIS IS WHY THE ISRAELITES CANNOT STAND AGAINST THEIR ENEMIES. They will turn their backs and run from their enemies, because they have been set apart for destruction. I will no longer be with you unless you remove from among you what is set apart.” 
    The ”accursed thing” happened to be an eye-catching Babylonian garment. Luke 16:15 A garment from   Babylon -  the destroyer, an accursed city doomed to destruction. Ps 137:8  Garments in God’s word carry a symbolic meaning. It can clarify who or what we identify with; wickedness or righteousness.  Ezek 18:20; Isa 61:10; Ps 109:29  By choosing one or the other, it signifies who we are willing to “sacrifice” our life for.
     Even the rank and file "JW" is eager to surrender their "garment"/individuality/identity, to the Beast they admire...
    as it says in the baptism vow...
    "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism IDENTIFY YOU ("enrobes/dresses you"), as one of "Jehovah's Witnesses" in association with his "spirit-directed" organization?" (John 20:22) (Rev 13:15; 16:13-16; 19:20)
    Yes... they desire an identity that belongs to and is associated with, the powerful...
    and so they too, surrender their robes of individuality/personal reputation of integrity before God, to "don" their new garment/identity, as one of "Jehovah's Witnesses", under blind obedience to it's hierarchy under the wicked steward/harlot.  Pearl Doxsey -  "Our Outer Garment"
    God pointed out to Joshua that His covenant had been violated.  His decrees that he had specifically said should be followed to guarantee their safety, were transgressed.  Josh 1:7,8;6:18,19  Today, God’s covenant with the anointed priesthood has been violated by allowing uncircumcised priests to present the “daily sacrifices” . Deut 21:5; Ezek 44:7; Mal 2:5-9 This is an “accursed thing”, doomed to destruction, that is present among the anointed and YOU.  2 Thess 2:7,8
     “Babylon’s” Harlot daughters direct the Watchtower Beast to lead YOU in supporting the “abomination” that defiles the House that bears God’s name. 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 17:3-6 
    YOU wear the garment that indicates who you serve, which is the Beast/Man of Lawlessness.  Surely JWs, you must see that putting “faith in Jehovah’s theocratic organization” is bolstering lawlessness and idolatry!  Should we suffer persecution on behalf of an idol, an idolatrous “MOUNTAIN” that is the SOURCE of persecution for those anointed ones who DESIRE TO BE ONE UNDER CHRIST?   
    Jesus replied to them, “HAVE FAITH IN GOD. 23 Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this MOUNTAIN, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will happen, IT WILL BE DONE FOR HIM. Mark 11:22,23
    The Lord reigns! Let the earth rejoice;
    let the many coasts and islands be glad.
    2 Clouds and thick darkness surround Him;
    righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne.
    3 Fire goes before Him
    and burns up His foes on every side.
    4 His lightning lights up the world;
    the earth sees and trembles.
    5 The mountains melt like wax
    at the presence of the Lord—
    at the presence of the Lord of all the earth.
    6 The heavens proclaim His righteousness;
    all the peoples see His glory.
    7 All who serve carved images,
    those who boast in idols, will be put to shame.
    All the gods must worship Him. (“gods” – “angels”, Heb 1:6,14; Mal 2:7)
    8 Zion hears and is glad,
    and the towns of Judah rejoice
    because of Your judgments, Lord.
    9 For You, Lord,
    are the Most High over all the earth;
    You are exalted above all the gods.
    10 You who love the Lord, hate evil!
    He protects the lives of His godly ones;
    He rescues them from the power of the wicked.
    11 Light dawns for the righteous,
    gladness for the upright in heart.
    12 Be glad in YHVH, you righteous ones,
    and praise His holy name.  Psalm 97
     
     
     
     
     
     
     



  6. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in "You Will Be In Paradise"   
    For today's WT study w18 December par. 16
    If a criminal who deserves to die, and mocks Jesus to his face even during the crucifixion itself (read the whole passage), only has to profess he wants to be remembered by Jesus at the very last minute, then the whole purpose of needing to get people baptised and dedicated as JW's is rubbish.
    This passage suggests belief in Jesus is enough and that even as late as your dying breath you can be redeemed! So works are not what saves you, being baptised is not what saves you, being identified with a certain church is not what saves you. Belief and faith in Jesus is what saves you and even mocking Jesus can't kill you if you have a last minute change of heart.
    Reading this properly has serious consequences for the validity of WT theology, and I always had trouble with this passage when I was in as I couldn't understand why we had so much pressure to go door to door as much as possible and strong arm people in bible studies. The passage suggests Jesus only required we spread the good news so they could believe and not fanatical pestering of people to beome part of a fundamentalist religion.
  7. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit   
    I recalled a comment from last year where you commented positively on the new way of referring to these days as aeons or epochs, rather than literal days, and then added the following comment:
    1975+43=2018 (last year). This old reckoning might seem ridiculous now, especially after the Watchtower once argued that this period could be a matter of weeks or months, but could not go beyond 2 years. But there are still some Witnesses who haven't kept up and believe there must be some validity to the 6,000 year theory. (A partial salvage of the theory, without any reference to 6,000 or 7,000 years, was rewritten in a much better way in a 2011 Watchtower:
    *** w11 7/15 p. 24 God’s Rest—What Is It? ***
    God’s Rest—What Is It?
    During the time that Fred Franz was still alive and still working on his last prophetic book "Revelation -- Its Grand Climax at Hand" an article was written dealing with the Jubilee year and how the 49th year was related to the 50th:
    *** w87 1/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
    Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week. (Revelation 20:6; Genesis 2:2, 3) Based on this reasoning, the entire creative week would be 49,000 years long. . . . According to Romans 8:20, 21, Jehovah God purposes to liberate believing mankind from this slavery. As a result, true worshipers on earth “will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.”—See also Romans 6:23. . . . While the small group selected to be taken to heaven have had their sins forgiven from Pentecost 33 C.E. onward and thus already enjoy the Jubilee, the Scriptures show that the liberation for believing mankind will occur during Christ’s Millennial Reign. That will be when he applies to mankind the benefits of his ransom sacrifice. By the end of the Millennium, mankind will have been raised to human perfection, completely free from inherited sin and death. Having thus brought to an end the last enemy (death passed on from Adam), Christ will hand the Kingdom back to his Father at the end of the 49,000-year creative week.—1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
    So although the 1969/1971 Aid Book, as you pointed out, had said that we don't know the length of the creative days, this probably came from the idea that a Bible Dictionary should not contain esoteric beliefs that are not actually based on the Bible, but are just a traditional interpretation. R.Franz must have recognized this fact, while preparing the Aid Book, but apparently there was a faction that thought this "reasonable" approach was very dangerous. It admits that we don't know everything. I have personal anecdote that let me know that this is exactly what at least two brothers (Greenlees and Schroeder) thought would, initially, be the way to get R.Franz removed, by exposing the non-dogmatic approach in the Aid Book style that tends to erode dogma. I'll save the anecdote for another time, but I think it is easy to recognize that this kind of approach to the Bible takes a lot of power away from the interpreters. (The anecdote did not concern the length of the creative days.)
    Even in the lead-up to 1975, there was a need, probably influenced by the Aid Book, to start using words like "evidently" rather than just speaking dogmatically:
    *** w73 2/1 p. 82 Will Your Days Be “Like the Days of a Tree”? ***
    Since each of the creative “days” or periods was evidently seven thousand years long, the whole creative “week” takes in 49,000 years.
    Compare that with the dogmatism in the previous decades:
    *** w51 1/1 pp. 27-28 The Christian’s Sabbath ***
    Since the sabbath was a part of the law and the “Law has a shadow of the good things to come”, of what was the sabbath a shadow? Of the grand rest day for all mankind, the 1,000-year reign of Christ, the seventh 1,000 years of God’s rest day. For six thousand years mankind has been toiling and suffering under “the god of this world”, Satan the Devil. In that antitypical sabbath Christ will free men from the bondage of Satan and his demons . . .
    *** w63 8/1 p. 460 par. 14 Religion and the Nuclear Age ***
    We could continue verse by verse through the entire period of the six creative days, periods of time that other Bible passages show to have been each 7,000 years in length.
    Of course, no other Bible passages were shown to indicate this, just a footnote to see the book by F.Franz, Let God Be True, 1943.
    Hebrews 3 & 4 does connect Psalm 95:11 to Genesis 2:2, but without any connection to a certain number of years and without any reference to the millennium of Christ's reign.
  8. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Do you see the revalidation in our brothers face?   
    That's all we need. 
  9. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Do you see the revalidation in our brothers face?   
    “Who is it he is trying to teach?
        To whom is he explaining his message?
    To children weaned from their milk,
        to those just taken from the breast?
    For it is:
        Do this, do that,
        a rule for this, a rule for that;
        a little here, a little there.”  Isa 28:9,10
    Wearing a beard should not change how people hear truth from the scriptures.  The organization is more concerned about "image", the pretense called "truth".  
  10. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Queen Esther in Do you see the revalidation in our brothers face?   
    @Srecko Sostar  I not agree with all your words...  We've an especially org. and some rules are importend.  Its a huge task and challenge for the GB!  And all is under the communing / knowledge with our Heavenly Father🙏❤️
    Maybe  i've another understanding about all this work. Thanks 
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Jehovah's Witnesses, JW.org and Attempted Suicide   
    So the real answer is then.... similar to how sinning elders stay in power....
    the key to "The Best Life Ever" is   DON"T GET CAUGHT!!!
    Even in suicide....
    you'd better be successful at your attempt OR you will be disfellowshipped by the Elder's who will then tell all other JW"s they are not allowed to even pray for you anymore.
    once disfellowshipped there is no future resurrection hope for you
     
  12. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Do you see the revalidation in our brothers face?   
    If you don't mind my open comment, but i think how it is very pathetic that so called Revalidation or Official Approval, Confirmation from GB must be released, given as first step, as Doctrinal teaching to allow JW men who want to have beard to have it.
    I would not called this News as some sort of "new light", or "organizational progress", or "Org. is changing". Because if this news make you "happy", or make you "glad to see new Instruction comes on brotherhood" .... than i can say how you, dear people, don't see another thing: 
    - That the clergy aka GB determined the things they should not have to determine.
    - That there are more/many things in JW life run by rules that should not have to exist, but existing because GB policy, management, ruling.
    - This example proves how JW people are Subjected, expose to, Submissive to HUMAN RULES. And how some/many of you feels some sort of release and happiness now, when this Burden was put away from you.
    Think, please, what other GB Rules administrates, governs (governing body) your life and you continuing to obey it/them.  
  13. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Pudgy in Jehovah's Witnesses, JW.org and Attempted Suicide   
    Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. Even bible text nowhere said how suicide is a sin or forbidden by Law. The biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. Never made Judgmental statement against those who done that act of self-destruction. 
    -Abimelech came to the tower, and fought against it, and came near to the entrance of the tower to burn it with fire. But a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head, and crushed his skull. Immediately he called to the young man who carried his armor and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so people will not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’ ” So the young man thrust him through, and he died.
    -the counselor Ahithophel hanged himself                                                                                                                                                                                            When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order, and hanged himself; he died and was buried in the tomb of his father.
    -Zimri, King of Israel, burned down his house around himself after military defeat.                                                                                                            When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the royal palace and set the palace on fire around him. So he died,
    -Saul and his armor-bearer                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and make sport of me. But his armor-bearer was unwilling, for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword and died. Thus Saul died; he and his three sons and all his house died together
    -Samson                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then Samson prayed to the Lord,“Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.... Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.
    -even Judas suicide is an act of remorse, deep regret. According to JW elders instruction, he gave visible, strong signs of repentance :))      When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood
    Some people here looks "funny" with conclusions about suicide and intention to defend WT Company. And all that in the name of God and Bible.
     
  14. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Jehovah's Witnesses, JW.org and Attempted Suicide   
    Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. Even bible text nowhere said how suicide is a sin or forbidden by Law. The biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. Never made Judgmental statement against those who done that act of self-destruction. 
    -Abimelech came to the tower, and fought against it, and came near to the entrance of the tower to burn it with fire. But a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head, and crushed his skull. Immediately he called to the young man who carried his armor and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so people will not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’ ” So the young man thrust him through, and he died.
    -the counselor Ahithophel hanged himself                                                                                                                                                                                            When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order, and hanged himself; he died and was buried in the tomb of his father.
    -Zimri, King of Israel, burned down his house around himself after military defeat.                                                                                                            When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the royal palace and set the palace on fire around him. So he died,
    -Saul and his armor-bearer                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and make sport of me. But his armor-bearer was unwilling, for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword and died. Thus Saul died; he and his three sons and all his house died together
    -Samson                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then Samson prayed to the Lord,“Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.... Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.
    -even Judas suicide is an act of remorse, deep regret. According to JW elders instruction, he gave visible, strong signs of repentance :))      When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood
    Some people here looks "funny" with conclusions about suicide and intention to defend WT Company. And all that in the name of God and Bible.
     
  15. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;   
    Judas and Ray Franz
    Judas betrayed Jesus. That was his sin. 
    Raymond Franz found that WT betrayed Jesus. That was his sin.
    Simple and clear.
  16. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;   
    I'll go back to your original comment:
    Will you explain to me why you believe the two, both Judas and Ray Franz,  are an "excellent comparison"?  How are they similar?  You really are beating around the bush. 
  17. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in WT misstatement: "There is no Clergy-Laity Distinction in JW organization"   
    some quotes from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009288   (my emphasis and enumeration)
    If, then, the clergy-laity distinction is not based on the model set by Jesus’ apostles and other early Christians, does that make it wrong? According to the Bible, yes.
    All you are brothers.”—Matthew 23:8.
    1. God’s Word tells us that all Christians serve as God’s ministers and that none is above or beneath the other. (2 Corinthians 3:5, 6)
    2. Spiritually older men did, of course, serve as overseers, which included being shepherds and teachers. (Acts 20:28) However, these men were not paid clerics.
    3. For the most part, they were ordinary working men—husbands and fathers. Moreover, they qualified to serve as overseers, not by attending religious seminaries, but by being diligent students of God’s Word and by cultivating the spiritual qualities required by God. 
    4. As for ministering within the congregation, Christian men in general are encouraged to reach out for that privilege, which is the custom among Jehovah’s Witnesses.—1 Timothy 3:1.
    5. The clergy-laity distinction exalts the clergy class, an evidence being adulatory religious titles. Yet, Jesus said: “He that conducts himself as a lesser one among all of you is the one that is great.” (Luke 9:48) In harmony with that spirit of humility, he told his followers not to adopt religious titles.—Matthew 23:8-12.
     2.-1. A paid clergy class can impose a heavy financial burden on the laity, especially when the former have lavish lifestyles. Christian overseers, on the other hand, care for their financial needs by doing normal secular work, thus setting a good example for others.*—Acts 18:1-3; 20:33, 34; 2 Thessalonians 3:7-10.
    2.-2.  Because a clergyman may depend on others for financial support, he might be tempted to dilute the Bible’s message in order to please parishioners. Indeed, the Scriptures foretold that this very thing would occur. 
    6. The clergy-laity distinction tends to cause lay people to relegate religion to the clergy, while the laity just turn up for weekly services. Yet, all Christians must be conscious of their spiritual need and be good students of the Bible.—Matthew 4:4; 5:3.
    7. When the laity are Biblically uninformed, they can easily be misled by clerics, even exploited by them. Indeed, history contains many examples of such abuses.*—Acts 20:29, 30.
    In order to adhere closely to the pattern set down in the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses have, not a clergy class, but unpaid spiritual shepherds and teachers who willingly minister to God’s flock. 
    What is wrong here? How with intentions and practice inside WT JWorg?  Intentions are looking good, theoretically. But, in practice, phrase 1. none is above or beneath the other is not fully correct, or it is not correct at all. Because,  2. Spiritually older men did, of course, serve as overseers, which included being shepherds and teachers. By this explanation, this men are in, are putted in position to be above other people who are not enough "spiritually older", what ever that could mean to be "older". In fact this phrase "spiritually older" means that such men, male (not any female, god save you from female spiritually older person :))))), are ordained and appointed by Management Structure (In past WT Headquarter made approval, today CO doing this, formally, but Who are involved, in fact, in this process is "heavenly secret", i guess, haha) 
    Move ahead with 2. these men were not paid clerics.  2.-1. A paid clergy class can impose a heavy financial burden on the laity  2.-2.  Because a clergyman may depend on others for financial support, he might be tempted to dilute the Bible’s. What's wrong with these statements? This is Half truth. Major elder class worldwide who are in congregations are not paid for ministry. They are half ammeters and half professionals, it depends on their experience and how deep and honest they personally are as Christians and as Persons. Other "appointed" servants are depends on other people money. They get financial support in many various forms. In money or in kind. So, yes they get paid for work they doing. And they depend on others for financial support. They receives some money, and they have sort of free Medical care and guess some Insurance and Pension fund. Many JW people working in Betel's are not "clergy" but have status of Elders, Ministerial Servants, Full Time Servants, CO-s, etc, they gave Oath to Poverty, and other similar stuffs unknown to Public. By Donation money JW members supporting, not only publishing magazines and publications and books, but Works aka Life of all others JW people who are involved in many and various Organizational Programs (Missioner activity, Building KH that belongs to Society not to congregants, Lawyers and Lawyers Firms that are Witnesses or non-Witnesses, for Court cases of all kind etc.) By that JW have paid classes of people who working In The Company.
    3.  serve as overseers, not by attending religious seminaries,   Here we have another incorrect claim. Elders are invited and participated in "religious seminaries" prepared, arranged  and guided by WT Society. They get instructions, advice's, new information's, etc. on how to run The Program inside Congregations.
    4. Christian men in general are encouraged to reach out for that privilege, which is the custom among Jehovah’s Witnesses  Here is one interesting thing i put just for emphasis question of Customs, Traditions and Folklore. All people, no matter of who they are, have this things. So, JW people are also under this influences. Good or bad, that is another question to discus.  
    5. not to adopt religious titles. WT Corporation has many Titles for people who are inside: Rank and File, Brother. Sister, Publisher, Unbaptized Publisher, Regular Pioneer, Auxiliary Pioneer, Special Pioneer, Missioner, Ministerial Servant, Elder, Overseer, Circuit Overseer, Secretary, Treasurer, Betel Member, International Servant or Volunteer, Construction Servant, Helper, Governing Body member, Anointed, etc. So, WT JWorg are not so different with titles for those who are inside Organization.
    6. The clergy-laity distinction tends to cause lay people to relegate religion to the clergy, while the laity just turn up for weekly services. Because those "In Charge" aka elders are only one who are delegate by WT to give shepherding and teaching to the "flock" aka laity, that can cause relegate syndrome for laity aka rank and file members in JW congregation to be submissive to elders class in/to  such measure to visit Sunday Church Meetings as all other religious people who come to meetings for Social Reasons.  
    7. When the laity are Biblically uninformed, they can easily be misled by clerics, even exploited by them. This is what take place in many issues in JW life and service. Take for example publication as "Shepherd book" or some other Internal memos coming from WT Headquarter to elders. If spiritual food in this documents are something based on Bible and are released to improve Congregation and Christian life and ministry, What can be reason for secrecy? Why only elders can see what was written there? That is clear evidence how exists Clergy-Laity distinction inside JWorg. What can be reason to not provide to members information's about content of such "only for Elders eye book"? Examples from Bible show how elders and all other members must follow "Bible principles". One of significant bible principles is that "Judicial things" must be free and open to all who want to know, who are involved, and those who are not involved in "case". "Investigation and Judging" must be in public place, beside city gates "Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace". Why in public? Think about reasons for that. Existence of "secret books and memos only for elders eyes" contribute to Elders-Laity class distinction" among JWorg. Is there something in this book that rank and file member will understand wrongly, or will be unable to understand rightly ??  :)))    
    Beside these what was said, think about why Elders call for "clergy privilege" when Judge on Court ask them to reveal things about something what took place inside JW members. And based on this Elders refuse to answer questions on Court. How that can be, JW elders are not nominally "Clergy" but acting as normal "Clergy" in full measure. 
    Well, some of clergy inside JWorg are not paid for service, and some are paid for service. Distinction existing.  
     
     
     
     
     
     
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Do you see the revalidation in our brothers face?   
    If you don't mind my open comment, but i think how it is very pathetic that so called Revalidation or Official Approval, Confirmation from GB must be released, given as first step, as Doctrinal teaching to allow JW men who want to have beard to have it.
    I would not called this News as some sort of "new light", or "organizational progress", or "Org. is changing". Because if this news make you "happy", or make you "glad to see new Instruction comes on brotherhood" .... than i can say how you, dear people, don't see another thing: 
    - That the clergy aka GB determined the things they should not have to determine.
    - That there are more/many things in JW life run by rules that should not have to exist, but existing because GB policy, management, ruling.
    - This example proves how JW people are Subjected, expose to, Submissive to HUMAN RULES. And how some/many of you feels some sort of release and happiness now, when this Burden was put away from you.
    Think, please, what other GB Rules administrates, governs (governing body) your life and you continuing to obey it/them.  
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Jehovah's Witnesses, JW.org and Attempted Suicide   
    Judicial hearing ????? Stupid, Idiotic!!!!!
    People who have such issue, problems needs Friendly "hearing", NOT Judicial. 
    Idiots!! (sorry for my language, but must give emotion on this)
  20. Sad
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Jehovah's Witnesses, JW.org and Attempted Suicide   
    just read the suicide part of the book and it said this:
    ATTEMPTED SUICIDE
    81. A suicide attempt may be the result of deep despair or major depression.
    Elders should deal carefully and compassionately with
    such a person. In most cases, a judicial hearing is not required.
    —Ps. 88:3, 17, 18; Prov. 15:13; Eccl. 7:7; g 4/14 pp. 6-9.
  21. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Interesting changes in the 2019 "Shepherd The Flock of God" elder's manual   
    Here some points I noted not sure if these r different from the previous edition:
    medical marijuana is a personal choice
    Any allegations of child sexual abuse r to b given to the legal department to tell the elders how to proceed.
    Also specific instructions to not make abused persons face their accuser
    The elders should all b made aware of any sexual predators and if they move the new congregation elders should b made aware including parents of children in the congregation. This is only done if the legal department says to.
    Victims of abuse or their parents r to b advised that they can go to the police and r not to b discouraged from doing so.
    Masturbation is not pornia and is not really covered. Not sure if this is new and the org is backing away from discussing it.
    Probing sexual questions r to b avoided during a judicial committee
    Sexual offenders r not to receive any major privileges in the congregation, possibly minor ones such as handling mics after an extended time has passed.
    The elders r to clearly tell people that they r being invited to a judicial committee and what the meeting is about up front.
    Things they r still clinging to:
    Still sticking to the two witnesses rule for child abuse
    it says that attempted suicide victims may b subject to a judicial committee ( someone that has mental illness should not b subject to more trauma I find this to b so disgusting)
    Of course all the other ridiculous invasive restrictions we all have experienced
    Highlights from the book above (2019 links added)
    The three year rule is re-iterated without specific mention of "three"
    An elder or MS will be removed if he allows his adult DA'd child to move into family home
    An elder can be removed for filing for bankruptcy
    The language around the definition of rape is better - no more references to the woman having to scream
    The stayover rule is still there. If you stay in the house of a member of the opposite sex, and two people know about it, it's a judicial matter.
    "Abhorrent" forms of porn are now a DF offense. Gay, Lez, child, violent, bestial.
    Gluttony is now listed as a DF offense. Not sure if it was there before
    They have narrowed the definition of apostasy: " Deliberately Spreading Teachings Contrary to Bible Truth " the end of that sentence used to read "as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses"
    I think this the first time they explicitly stated that marking talks can be given based on misconduct from unbaptized minors
    There's a whole new section on CSA. It seems like an improvement overall and includes the child no longer having to confront her rapist in most cases, but it still doesn't have the promised female representation from Jackson's promise to the Australian court.
    Willingly taking blood remains an automatic disassociation offence.
    Reinstatement is "several months, a year or even longer"
    Ownership of kingdom halls. They make clear that regardless of what it says on the title, a congregation does not OWN their own kingdom hall.
    jw.org email - all correspondance between elders is now via the elders private account on jw.org. I guess they want to make sure they know EVERYTHING
    Congregation file: Still they say the best place to keep it is at the KH. Therefore, paper records of all judicial matters should be in those files. ALL CSA RECORDS HAVE "DO NOT DESTROY" WRITTEN ON THEM
    Here's the entire section on legal action as a result of judicial action. I think it's worth noting that it demonstrates that they will leave you alone if you write a legal letter:
     
    IF THE ACCUSED THREATENS LEGAL ACTION 18. If the accused threatens legal action against the elders, the elders should suspend proceedings and promptly telephone the Legal Department. 19. If a member ofthe media or an attorney representing the accused contacts the elders, they should not give any information about PREPARING FOR JUDICIAL HEARINGS CHAPTER 15 “SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD” the case or verify that there is a judicial committee. Rather, they should give the following explanation: “The spiritual and physical welfare of Jehovah’s Witnesses is of paramount concern to the elders, who willingly provide spiritual assistance to congregation members. The elders extend this spiritual assistance confidentially. This makes it easier for those who seek the elders’ help to do so without worrying that what they say to the elders will be divulged later. Consequently, we do not comment on whether elders are currently or have formerly met to assist any member of the congregation.” If there is a need to do so, the elders may obtain the inquirer’s name and phone number and inform him that their attorney will contact him. The elders should then promptly telephone the Legal Department. 20. Ifthe authorities request confidential congregation records or ask that elders give testimony regarding confidential congregation matters, the elders should promptly telephone the Legal Department.
     
    This seems like a big change below as it codifies what we have all been hearing about ownership of KH's:
     
    OWNERSHIP 2. A Kingdom Hall is dedicated to the worship of Jehovah. Whether the property title, or deed, is held in the name of a local corporation or by means of a trustee arrangement or it is held in the name of a legal entity managed by the branch office, no congregation should conclude that it “owns” the Kingdom Hall. However, it is the responsibility of the congregations using the property to care for it and see that it is used in harmony with Kingdom interests. 3. As many as three or four congregations may be assigned by the branch office to use the same Kingdom Hall auditorium in order to make full use of the facility and to keep expenses to a minimum. The branch office will generally correspond with only one of the congregations using the facility regarding legal, property, and related matters. Usually, this contact congregation holds the documents related to the Kingdom Hall and the property on which it is located. This is for practical reasons only and does not provide a basis for the contact congregation to make unilateral
  22. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit   
    You might want to do some research to see just how many organizations offer free Bibles all around the world.  
  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;   
    Which things?  It's not the question of who's life I change, but who are changed by truth in scripture.  
  24. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Fædrelandsvennen have released an official English version of their award-winning article about the JW legal system   
    "The organization is highly devoted to what they perceive as the correct understanding of the Bible." 
    Jehovah’s Witnesses is a Christian church, and we have some clear biblical guidelines on how to behave in order to enjoy and be part of the life in the congregation. If someone commits serious sins against the moral code of the Bible, a judicial committee must address whether this person can continue to be part of the congregation. The book which you have, explains how a judicial committee works and the biblical principles they must follow.
    Here is the moral code:
     Jesus answered, “The most important is Listen, O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. 31 The second is, Love your neighbor as yourself.There is no other command greater than these.”  Mark 12:29-31
    No other, JWs. 
    In court the boy also reveals how he had witnessed his mother knealing in front of his stepfather, begging for mercy.
    And how he, the 15 year old, tried to go between them to stop the violence. But nothing worked. It’s then he, out of sheer desperation, together with his older brother, approached the Elders in their congregation. The brothers tell the Elders what is going on at home.
    "I can’t witness this any more, how my mother and baby brothers are treated". That’s what he told the Elders. But they did nothing," says the woman.
    WHO HAS BROKEN THE MORAL CODE OF THE BIBLE, BUT THE MEN WHO MAKE A PRETENSE OF FOLLOWING IT?
    THIS IS WHY THE TWO-WITNESS RULE CONCERNING CHILD ABUSE DOESN'T WORK.  THE ORGANIZATION PERCEIVES IT AS COLD AND CALCULATING. 
    If there was true love among the entire army of leaders in the organization, the elders would have acted upon it and responded to the boy's plea for help.
    "Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold."  Matt 24:12 
  25. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Fædrelandsvennen have released an official English version of their award-winning article about the JW legal system   
    Case No 1. 
    Quote "In 2010, before her husband became an Elder in their congregation, the abuse escalated even more. One of her sons, then 15, couldn’t take it any more."
    It would appear that the Elders didn't act because the 'husband' was an Elder.  This seems to follow a pattern where Elders stick together to help each other when one is in trouble. 
    What happened to the scripture about looking after 'widows and orphans', because this woman and her children were almost a 'widow and orphans' in the fact that the husband/father was not doing his duty of protecting them, but was in fact causing injury to them. 
    The facts of him causing injury seem clear enough from medical reports and police evidence. 
    but the black cat still blindly sticks up for the JW Org. 
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