Srecko Sostar

I didn't see your previous post before posting the following thread:
 

The governing body believes the following to be true:
Three months later = dfd; six years later = no problem
Someone might say "I'm glad I waited to tell on myself"
Confessing is optional, he might just get busted and still be in the clear.
"Serving faithfully" can include covering over serious sin for years
God blesses those that are covering over serious sin
The congregation can telepathically detect secret sins and will not respect you.

If it was a crime can you imagine a judge saying "well nobody found out you robbed the bank because you covered it up. Well done you can continue as the bank manager and not go to prison."
unless...
"evidence of God's blessing" IS not getting caught - lmao 😂🤣

My, you give Jesus little credit.
I know I’ve posted these scriptures; but here I will quote it from the International Children’s Bible 😊
Then the angel who was talking with me came back. He woke me up as if I had been asleep. 2 He asked me, “What do you see?”
I said, “I see a solid gold lampstand. There is a bowl at the top. And there are seven lamps. There are also seven places for wicks. 3 There are two olive trees by it. One is on the right of the bowl. And one is on the left.”
4 I asked the angel who talked with me, “Sir, what are these?”
5 The angel said, “Don’t you know what they are?”
“No, sir,” I said.
6 Then he told me, “This is the message from the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘You will not succeed by your own strength or by your own power. The power will come from my Spirit,’ says the Lord of heaven’s armies.
7 “No mountain (the “mountainlike organization”) can stand in Zerubbabel’s way. It will be flattened. Then he will bring out the topmost stone. There will be shouts of ‘It’s beautiful! It’s beautiful!’”
(Definitely we are not talking about a corrupt organization that calls itself "Zion".)  
8 Then the Lord spoke his word to me again. He said: 9 “Zerubbabel has laid the foundation of this Temple. (Not the Watchtower “temple”, but that which is built upon faithful anointed “living stones” 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:5,9)  He will also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord of heaven’s armies has sent me to you.
10 “The people should not think that small beginnings are unimportant. They will be happy when they see Zerubbabel with tools, building the Temple.
“(These seven lamps stand for the eyes of the Lord. They look back and forth across the earth.)”
11 Then I asked the angel, “What are the two olive trees on the right and left of the lampstand?”
12 I also asked him, “What are the two branches full of olives? The olive oil flows through the two gold pipes to the lamps.”
13 He answered, “Don’t you know what they are?”
“No, sir,” I said.
14 So he said, “They stand for two men. They have been appointed to serve the Lord of all the earth.”
 
A symbolic “two” will complete the work God has outlined for them. Rev 11:1-6  Do you know how many that is?  Do you think it is 8 million people?  Doubtfully.
 
“Also, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about something, then you can pray for it. And the thing you ask for will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 This is true because if two or three people come together in my name, I am there with them.”  Matt 28:19,20
 
 
 
 
 

I am very sure how this "duty" for elders are viewed as burden in their eyes.
"Flock" are often confused about purpose for such meetings, perhaps they are "guilty" for something :)))))) and that is why some or many of them feels it how such "shepherding" is mainly for "spiritually weak" members ,or just "must be done duty/visit". 
Visiting brothers at least once a year, or twice....before CO visit congregation is hard and forced task for elders and i do not think how they are very happy with this WT "arrangement". 
I can not recall they have visiting me in that way. Maybe once in a life time. :)))

It’s because of our great growth. Duh!

I'm just curious about what people think when they hear that more kh's have been sold and folks sent to other kh's that had less people in it. This has come about with the recent announcement in Montreal of the dissolving of 16 cong's and closures of 3 kh's by April of this year. I think it is very interesting, mostly because this is the new trend. Selling of kh's as well as property in Brooklyn.
What gets me thinking is the recent changes from the past few years. At one time the local people owned the kh's, took loans out and paid for everything mostly with local funds and labor. Then we had the provision that the wt would assume the loans and local cong's would just pay wt. This was an open-ended situation with no payoff date. Local cong's would just keep paying what they were prior and all would be good. Now, I am sure that there are plenty of situations that warrant wt's help in paying for the kh's, but all in all it looked like a nice steady income for wt. Now I am seeing the merge of cong's and kh's being sold. Who gets this money? oh well, we all know who......wt. Not the local cong who built it. To me this is interesting and something that I think will wake up a lot of folks as they look into it, but I'd like to hear some thoughts from the other side of the coin. 
Anyone care to answer? 

I should have added, to the one who doesn't recognize it.   You appear to be very hopeful that these "clearly stated instructions" will be followed.  How many such instructions have been changed or completely ignored by elders?  My husband was an elder in a congregation where instructions were generally ignored until a "circuit brother" would be ready to call. They would scramble to "prepare" as a good elder body should.  There was no real concern for the sheep.  Shepherding calls infringed on the personal time of elders.  My husband took the bulk of them and was serious at visiting every person in need that he could.   But, not only did he realize that the instructions outlined in the Shepherd the Flock book were hypocritical, but also were the brothers who were suppose to carry them out.  He eventually dropped the Shepherd the Flock book on the table and walked out on the very night that elders were up until all hours making themselves look good for circuit overseer.   He left the organization on account of its hypocrisy.
A false priesthood of men not anointed who do not carry God's laws written on their heart as an anointed Body has been given, cannot and will not be equipped to shepherd the flock in righteousness.  Mal 2:7; Heb 8:10-11
Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.  Matt 7:12
How long has the organization been up and running?  What avenue has been used to force the changes that you now see concerning the major problem of child abuse and the safety of the victim?  It wasn't the teachings of Christ that caused the revision, but the law enforcement of men.  

When you juxtapose those 3 verses as you have, it helps to make a case for the idea already presented that the little flock might be Jews and the other sheep might be non-Jews, that is: people out of every tribe and nation. In fact you stopped just one verse shy of verse 9:
(Revelation 7:9) . . .After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.
So we already know that in some sense the 144,000 refer to Israelites, and the great crowd refer to Gentiles. The question is whether the reference is literal. We claim the number 144,000 to be literal, but we claim the reference to Israel is not. In fact, we teach that people of every tribe and nation are a part of that 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel, and that even many who are fleshly Israelites can end up being a part of that great crowd from all nations. Saying these expressions are NOT literal might appear to some people to be the equivalent of adding and subtracting from the Bible.
If the number 144,000 is not literal then it is surely not up to us to decide how many literal persons might make up this group. Since this is a discussion which has become centered on the views that R.Franz presented. I'll just present some of what he said on this so that other persons can reference it, and decide if it has any merit, or to point out the flaws in the reasoning.
At the time, there were only two of Jesus' parables that were believed to include the "other sheep." John 10:16 of course, and the "sheep and goats" parable because it mentions someone doing something for Christ's brothers, considered here to be only from the 144,000.
R.Franz points out that even if everything we teach about the 144,000 being literal is true, and only 144,000 will be in heaven, and a great crowd will make up the new earth  --even if all this is true-- it still doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't referring to literal Israelites in the "little flock" and literal "Gentiles" in the "other sheep" when he used these terms in John 10:16. The best argument the Watchtower uses for our current view of John 10:16 is that Christendom teaches they are literal Jews and Gentiles. This is not a real argument because we use Christendom all the time as evidence that we are right when Christendom's commentaries and scholarship agrees with us.
 
 

Quote TTH. "Opposers say ALMOST TO THE PERSON that Jehovah’s Witnesses are ‘controlling’ "
Opposers do this opposers do that. Apostates do this, apostates do that.
Dear old TTH, he loves to generalise.  Tom, everyone is an individual.
Haven't you watched 'Life Of Brian' ? We're all individuals. 
However if ten people saw a vehicle accident happen and had to give a report to the police, they would all probably give similar accounts.
If you have 50 ex JW's, they will each have their own experiences. If all 50 of them found the Org to be controlling then doesn't that tell you something ?  If you are not blind or deaf, it should tell you that those 50 people found the JW Org to be controlling. 
The only way JW's can get out of that control is by not completely obeying the 'rules'. And it seems that you are saying that the rules are not always enforced. BUT the rules are there none the less. 
Quote TTH "We do cut people slack in most areas."   Please explain.
WHO cuts people slack ? What slack are they cutting ? Do you mean that Elders allow congregants to break the rules ?
So are you admitting that there are those rules in place ?
If so, having those rules in place, is controlling. 
Yes I know we all have to obey rules in everyday life. For instance, which side of the road we drive on, stopping at red lights. 
But the superior authorities will admit they put rules in place, so they are controlling.
So why won't the GB of JW Org ,and you, admit that the Org is controlling ? After all isn't it supposed to be that way ? 
If there are rules it is for the purpose of having control. 

Wow it seems that everyone has got a copy of the 2019 Shepherding the Flock book. 
Can i have one please ? 

Thank you; yet the outcome is still relevant today.
 Hypocrisy is the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character or inclinations, especially with respect to religious and moral beliefs; hence, in a general sense, hypocrisy may involve dissimulation, pretense, or a sham. Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. In moral psychology, it is the failure to follow one's own expressed moral rules and principles.
Hypocrisy is never clear.  

What are you saying, historical because of it being a possible rarity, which I don't agree with; or, historical according to time?  The court case happened just this last fall; which in my book is "today".  
If the same pressure by these "rogue" individuals is put upon a victim, threatening them not to go to the police saying they will handle it in house, how will the authorities know to convict the perpetrator?   What you are saying sounds like the perfect plan, but it is a plan that will not work throughout the organization, and it's individual congregations.  

It all sounds well and good, except in many "rogue" halls, it has been and will continue, to be done according to the will of the elder body.  It think this has been proven more than once.   If elders fail to follow the new guidelines, will they be disfellowshipped?  Just asking.  Will they suffer at the hands of the Watchtower as the victim did?
A jury in northwestern Montana handed down a $35 million award Wednesday in a lawsuit filed by two women against the local Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation and its worldwide headquarters.
The decision came down after a three-day trial. The Thompson Falls congregation and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the church’s institutional center in New York and Pennsylvania, will pay $4 million in compensation and $31 million in punitive damages. The monetary award applies to only one of the women who sued the church in 2016.
The women said Max Reyes, a member of the Thompson Falls congregation, sexually assaulted, molested and raped them over a 13-year period in the 1990s and 2000s, both before he was severed from the congregation and after leadership reinstated him 14 months later.
Watchtower, the church’s worldwide center, is the headquarters for the religious leadership and the church's institutional operations, such as policy making and financing. Each congregation is legally connected to Watchtower as one entity.
Earlier in the case, Judge James Manley ruled that Reyes’ criminal acts were foreseeable to the church leadership when they allowed him to return and that the congregation’s elders were not exempt from Montana’s mandatory reporting law when they learned of the allegations against him and didn’t turn him over to law enforcement.  From the "Missoulian"
 
Jesus simply said, "love your neighbor as yourself".  Is this so hard to understand?   Even those few words are incomprehensible to the leaders in the organization.  They are not obedient to Jesus' teachings, nor the law, but only to their selfish desires to do things their way. 

( WELL you are the one now using my name so i will respond to 'others' in case it is not clear. )
And if an Elder should want to hide or destroy evidence in the form of written notes he will. And i think that a video was put up on this forum to show a brother in some position of authority telling elders to destroy evidence. That brother used the excuse that 'satan was coming after the organisation'.  Of course what he really meant was 'this is going to cost the Org lots of money and give it a really bad name' ... '
Also I believe that in the Netherlands, Police invaded the HQ and some Kingdom Halls and a couple of homes, searching for such evidence / documents, as proof of Child Abuse happenings. 
At the headquarters of Jehova's Witnesses in Emmen, an invasion took place on 19 November due to a large-scale investigation into sexual abuse.
Two church buildings, also known as kingdom halls, have also been investigated. One of them is in Dordrecht, the location of the other is still unknown. Four houses were also examined. The police were looking for documents from internal lawsuits, that reportsRTL News .    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My son watched the film 1984, and he said those in charge would say there was 'a variation' in different things, but it actually meant there was a lesser amount being offered for the same cost... When our rent goes up the Council use that same word 'variation' instead of rise in cost. Do you understand where I'm coming from ?  The GB of JW Org is just doing the same thing as the world does, playing with words to serve their own purpose..
There are 'whistleblowers' in the world to show us how bad the ruling classes treat the lower classes. 
I am very pleased that there are 'Whistleblowers' within the JW Org too, to prove how bad the GB and the Org really is.
TTH pretends all is well and Anna backs up his every comment like a parrot. But in truth we know, nothing has changed. It's just playing with words. Something which TTH loves to do. 
So i will repeat. IF AN ELDER COMMITS CHILD ABUSE AND THERE ARE NOT TWO WITNESSES TO PROVE HE DID IT, THEN HE WILL GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE HIS FELLOW ELDERS WILL RALLY ROUND HIM TO 'PROTEST' HIM.  THERE WILL NOT BE A PROPER ENQUIRY / INQUIRY TO THE SITUATION AS THE ELDERS WILL SAY THERE IS NO INTERNAL CASE TO ANSWER. THEREFORE THE ABUSER ELDER WILL STILL KEEP HIS 'STATION' AND HIS STATUS. THE VICTIM WILL BE SEEN AS A LIAR AND / OR SLANDERER AND WILL BE SHUNNED BY OTHERS IN THE CONGREGATION. IF THE VICTIM CONTINUES TO COMPLAIN THEY WILL BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED. 
Simple enough for you all to understand I hope. I thought some of you needed capitals as you seem to find it difficult to read and understand things. 
 

I think you have actually proved my point thanks. 
" The legal age for taking up the profession of priest was about 30 years. "
And that was when Jesus got baptised.  
It's quite funny how some folks want to use the Bible situations as examples, but only when it suits them. 

Do you think this made him more accountable?

I believe Jesus was 30 years old when he presented himself for baptism to do his Father's will. 
But, in my opinion, there is competition between families, and even between congregations, to get the most children baptised. 
At assemblies it's 'who is getting baptised today?' How many getting baptised today ?  
It is so competitive, and so unchristian. 
Well, if what is on another post is true, 5 year old children are getting baptised in some countries. 

Nearly  all  animals  need  lovely  hugs ❤    cute  video...   Jehovah's  creations!   ENJOY
                                   ❤ .•*¨`*•..¸♥☼♥¸.•*¨`*•. ❤

Even though I was disfellowshipped for apostasy, I was told I could “return to Jehovah and his organization” if I had a repentant heart.  No mention of time limit after that was given; and no followup for years now, to see if indeed, I have a repentant heart defined by the WT. 
*What methods do apostates use to achieve their aim? They often resort to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods. Jesus knew that his followers would be victimized by those who would “tell all kinds of evil lies against” them. (Matthew 5:11, Today’s English Version)
1 Tim 6:3-5 - If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 

w13 11/15 p. 20 -  At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. 
 
w 04/9/1 p. 15,16 - Deceptive reasonings. The apostle Paul states: “Do not be carried away with various and strange teachings.” (Hebrews 13:9) What sort of teachings? Since they can ‘carry us away,’ it is clear that Paul refers to teachings that undermine our spiritual balance. Who are voicing such strange teachings? Paul told a group of Christian elders: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:30) 
 
Who acts as the “faithful steward” appointing themselves “from among” God’s anointed household?  Luke 12:42-48
 *Such malicious opposers would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned about apostates who would use “counterfeit words,” spread “deceptive teachings,” and ‘twist the Scriptures’ to their own ends. (2 Peter 2:3, 13; 3:16) Sadly, apostates succeed in “subverting the faith of some.”—2 Timothy 2:18.  04/2/15 16-17 
The large majority of Watchtower’s followers will never leave deceptive teachings and their source, such as 1975, 1925, “this generation”; that Zion is a visible organization and not found in the hearts of “living stones” of the Temple of God. 1 Pt 2:5,9,10; Eph 2:20-22; that it is okay for God’s priesthood/Temple to be ruled by men not anointed.  2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; 13:5-7,18
JWs may question their leaders and their intent when “new light” emerges, but their hearts will be inclined to “wait on Jehovah” to correct teachings that have been revealed as untrue.  The captivating offer of a spiritual paradise and a “thousand years of peace” to come is very difficult to give up, leaving one facing the unknown, outside of the walls of presumed “peace and security”.  1 Thess 5:3; 1 Col 2:8; Rev 13:5-10
 
w86 4/1 p. 31-  Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
 
2 Pet 2:1-3 - But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
Fabricated stories unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses, are various and strange teachings that use deceptive reasoning, and may not appear practical from a human standpoint , causing an undermining of our spiritual balance.  Each lie robs a JW from the sound reasoning of Christ’s teachings.  This is denying the Christ, which means to “contradict, i.e. disavow, reject, abnegate”, his teachings, through the introduction of destructive heresies by false teachers found among God’s anointed ones.  Rev 13:11,12
And I am the apostate as well as my “brothers” and fellow believers in Christ - those who rely not on men and their falsehoods, but only on the teachings of Christ who is in the Father?
Satan can twist an entire foundation of beliefs by applying what is true, to what is false.  It is called a “delusion”.
2 Thess 2:9-12 -The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders, 10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends (to “bid a thing to be carried to one”)  them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.
 
Matt 7:24-27 - “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock. (John 2:19-21; Matt 16:18; 1Cor 10:3,4) 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. It collapsed with a great crash.”
 
What do you think?  Should we give them 6 months or a year?  2 Pet 3:8,9
 
 

Moved a bunch of posts from another thread to here. This will effect posts by @Witness, @Srecko Sostar, @Anna, @JOHN BUTLER, @TrueTomHarley, @Shiwiii.

I expect nothing less from those who defend the practices of wt/gb about CSA. 
on a good note though, truth has a way of planting a seed and It WILL grow, it will grow on their conscience in due time.  

Why do you dodge simple truth in order to divert the topic to something irrelevant for the sake of sarcasm when you could just answer straightforward?  
 

regardless what I think about jws in general, there is a big difference from being allowed and requiring. 
Here, for your entertainment Tom: 
 
Johnny boy is allowed to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans in the State of Arizona
 
in California (in certain cities) Johnny boy is required to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans.
 
Is this the same thing? Is the practice of  recycling "fixed" in Arizona?  

I do not see need for giving addresses. Is it legal to announce the names? This is interesting legal question  for sure. Maybe initials of name and numbers how many people in this and that country made crime.
But, here comes to my mind, is it legal to announce the name of Dfd or Diss person in front of congregation if such individual not gave his/her written permission that his/her name can be publicly  announced by elders from platform ????!!!!  Does Judicial Committee asking for such permission in US or elsewhere ?????  :))))
Money would not protect children in that way, of course.
But, your question in this form about context is something i would not expect from you !!