Srecko Sostar

If we take in consideration how "voice" of Spirit beside His powerful expressions have other side too, and that is that Spirit is very sensible, soft, coming to human individuals if we allow Him to come. Spirit is (i think) not pushy, demanding, Spirit not love to force other to accepting what He want, but He love our free will and He love to see our give Welcome to Him. To Spirit is easier to approach to us, if in us there is no noise, that kind of noise because of what, we can not hear his quiet and soft voice, call: "Come!, Hear Me!"... or else. But as i express myself in previous comments, Spirit can go wherever He want to go, when ever He want, and to "visit" all people no matter what they are in particular time. Even if you are in mess He can come to you. 
I see sort of "technical problem and spiritual problem" when you mentioned "purpose of meetings" in JW community. Program of meetings are in sphere of Uniformity under common believes how worldwide Unity depends on Same Program for All. This is, i think, one moment when Human Program makes barrier for Free Spirit to come. (two things i have in mind with Free Spirit, and that is Holy Spirit and your Personal Spirit). 
I am very sure how all of you (us) feel the need for something different when come to meeting. For example, need to sit in peace and silence and thinking about own stuff, or just looking around on other people and to observe, to notice and be perceptive about surrounding ..... But when things are ordered in advance, from day to day, week to week, your current needs, feelings and state of mind can not be satisfied. You became sort of Robot with idea how you must do this or that because other ask you that, it is Expected from you.  Just for little illustration. :))  
This is why i am pleased and have honor to have conversation with few of you here :) 
 

This ability evolved into being during the Glycolcemic Age and they might have missed it. All evolved creatures are equal but some are more equal than others.

No, it’s not the purpose of those meetings, but why allow an obvious lie to be propagated?  An up-building congregational setting in the apostle’s time was centered on Christ’s teachings, not the teachings of men.  Where in the Bible does it say we must obey doctrines outside of Christ’s teachings?  2 Pet 2:2   We are to reject those ideas we see as blatantly wrong; and if they continue to add up, there’s something askew with the big picture – the organization and its existence.  Gal 5:7; Rom 1:25; 2 Cor 11:3
Yes, and I have agreed with you on some things; yet, if you did this in the congregation you would become a target, someone to watch.  Each person has a heart and a conscience that God expect us to exercise in righteousness.   We are not to kowtow to men and their ideals. Christ never did, the apostles never did.  They are our examples.    We are to follow Christ’s teachings as God expects us to.  We are to support God’s Son, not a GB who in their apparent pious way, are actually false “christs”.  Matt 24:24  
If we allow ourselves to be manipulated by doctrine of men, we are essentially their slaves.  1 Cor 7:23; 1 Thess 2:4; Rom 6:16
They have instilled the fear (you can’t see it) in JWs, that to obey God and Christ, it must be done through the organization.  There is no valid scriptural reason for this.    If it is challenged by someone in the organization, that one can be disfellowshipped.   Would God bless an organization that throws out HIs children who care to serve Him, with their whole heart, mind and soul, instead of for and through a material corporation?  Mark 12:29-31  Would God bless a "preaching work" that claims it leads people to salvation, when He only approved HIs Son as our salvation?  Acts 4:12  Wouldn't you say that by following these cited scriptures the person is following God's decrees?
If one truly desires to serve the Father and Jesus, why would this be a confusing issue?  Where is confidence that Holy Spirit can draw out and inspire those whom He needs to get the work done?    Only men feel they need to control God's work and how it's accomplished.   He, on the other hand, is fully in control of His "preaching work" and to whom must hear the message.  Although it is claimed that God controls the organization,  it is as if God really has no power or control, in the eyes of all in the organization.  Zech 4:6; Matt 10:23  
He chooses where his Spirit is directed.  Obviously, men who teach out of their own resources would not be blessed by God.  They give no  scriptural support to the claim that God and Christ are in control of the organization.  Their validity is all based on elemental calculations, and what the eye can see.  
"Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.  If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.  He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him."   John 7:16-18
Should it be any different today among anointed "teachers" who purport to follow Christ?
 
 
 

I can give example of some strange situation in 1 century. Act s 19:1-6 is first that fall on my head :)))
In the course of events, while A·polʹlos+ was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland regions and came down to Ephʹe·sus.+ There he found some disciples 2  and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?”+ They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.” 3  So he said: “In what, then, were you baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.”+ 4  Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance,+telling the people to believe in the one coming after him,+ that is, in Jesus.” 5  On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6  And when Paul laid his hands on them, the holy spirit came upon them,+ and they began speaking in foreign languages and prophesying.+
Here we see how some disciple have legal status before God even without some knowledge, information or power to speak or doing things that some other disciple can and in fact they doing.
It is strange that this disciple who learned The Truth from John knew nothing about Holy Spirit. Because John was man who was been inspired and guided by that same Holy Spirit??!! And people around them accepted him as Man from God.
In last part of this verses we see how this Ignorant Disciples began speaking and prophesying under the Power Of Spirit. It is normal conclusion, to me, that this disciples did not know, have no clue what they are speaking and prophesying about. Because in one moment they are those who never heard about HS and in another second they have been INSPIRED, even without own will and wish to be inspired. Paul just laid hand on them.
They have been baptized twice :))) ... very confusing situation how Spirit operates in human reality. John baptized Jesus and many other people. But to accept Jesus, Paul told them they have to be baptized again. Imagine possibility how these disciples were baptized on the same day as Jesus?!  
As you see, i can not give example how Free Spirit will or can operate. All i can do is just/only to make questions about.

Quote "as long as we respect the doctrines promoted by the the Governing Body. "
Worship of the Governing Body then ? 
The Governing Body would be respected for the number of years they have spent in Bible study and teaching and therefore "worthy of double honor."
I wonder how many years the Pope has spent in Bible study ? Does that make him worthy of double honour then ? 
The GB had written in the Revelation Book that it might not be true.  And the GB does keep changing the meanings of scripture to suit themselves. 'Superior authorities', comes to mind. 'This Generation' also comes to mind, so don't pretend that I'm wrong in making this statement. 
People think that I'm full of hate, wrong, I'm full of disappointment. Why ? Because i used to 'respect the doctrines promoted by the Governing Body', and now I see how much of my life I have wasted believing in their lies. 
There are rules in the JW Org, basically keep your mouth shut unless you are praising the GB and the Org.
What that does is create unrest and distrust. Relate it to racism. Here in the UK people are not allowed to express their feelings about 'other races'. What that does is cause some people to boil up inside because they cannot let their feelings be known. There is no release valve. 
This is similar in the JW org, and creates similar results. People become apostate because they have not been allowed to ask questions or given permission to express themselves. People leave the JW Org because they feel dominated. 
Quote "In other words, every single doctrine we have, need not be expressed as an unchangeable dogma."
No maybe not, but if a congregant were to disagree with GB doctrine, they would be strongly reproved and watched, then if they continued to disagree they would be disfellowshipped. 

So you are esentally saying that every Witness should be able to preach their own ideas to other Witnesses, and out on the ministry. How do you envisage that in practice? I mean give us an example of how this would operate.

Not only that, but perfection is relative. 

Of course, per the title of this thread, it is THE subject. I hoped we could get into it a bit more here.
You made some interesting points and it shows you have really looked into the topic. I don't know enough about the topic yet to know what the evolutionist's counter-arguments would be. It's something I just don't try to get into with others, at least in person. Having the topic here might encourage those like you to keep contributing some good information.
From what I can tell, since the 1980's, the Society has COMPLETELY dropped the 7,000 year day idea, and they have said nothing against the possibility that some of these "days" could be millions of years long. So there is even the possibility that some fossils could be 541 million years old.
I didn't pay much attention to the previous thread from which this one broke off, but I see that you are using C14 evidence to date ALL fossils on the order of thousands instead of millions of years. Without looking, of course, I'm sure there is a counter-argument among scientists, and I'd be interested in looking it up to see which argument has the best evidence behind it.

I know one of the counter arguments to the preservation of blood vessels in fossils.   There is a paper which indicates that iron in blood can preserve blood vessels... if I remember correctly.  I looked at the arguments and it was so "scientific".    They took blood and "centrifuged" out the iron and then in perfect laboratory conditions proved that high levels of  iron can preserve these.   The problem is that no-where in nature does one find a centrifuge and no-where in nature does one find  large quantities of blood like that.   It also does not explain the carbon 14 and the other proteins such as collagen.
 

It is good to see that people have a sense of humour and we can indeed thank Jehovah for that. 
I have another topic but must have a cup of coffee first. I'm spending toooo much time on this computer, but it is spiritually upbuilding. 
Have a good day as much as possible. 
 

True. I apologize to @The Librarian. I know that he or she had just broken off this particular topic to a new thread which is a bit of a hassle in itself. I pushed the envelope a bit, but mostly to just highlight how the Librarian was correct. Completely new topics can be frustrating. But to the small group participating in this topic, I think it was understandable that Watchtower doctrine of the seven thousand year day would come into this. That would inevitably lead to why there are changes to our doctrines. That would inevitably lead to a discussion of the spiritual guidance of the GB (because it was already a concurrent discussion among a couple of the participants, here).
On a serious note, I think it would be better to just say that there is a discussion about the GB that includes the topic of spirit direction already in progress, so that this part of the topic can be continued over there.

To me - I feel like I am in school if I cannot stray off subject sometimes.  I am not writing a paper....  I am just in a discussion.  The mind always seeks new ideas to explore... So, I am not here to provide people with my research... or to prove something.  I just give them ideas to go and study for themselves. 
I always write from memory... things I have read.... It will take a lot of time to go find the proof  where I read it.
Unfortunately it will be a little harder to study the kind of fossil which loves tacos!  

Thanks Librarian for little "rebuke".  But Fossils (in fact living Creatures at first, before death), in Creation view on matter, will not be possible to find in the ground (or else) and in this topic today too, if the Spirit did not create them. No matter how much we want some words will be part of text no matter of main context.

Thanks Librarian for little "rebuke".  But Fossils (in fact living Creatures at first, before death), in Creation view on matter, will not be possible to find in the ground (or else) and in this topic today too, if the Spirit did not create them. No matter how much we want some words will be part of text no matter of main context.

Dear JW Insider. This is an open provocation to Librarian. You are  1 light year out of topic with tacos recipe :)))))))))

Dear JW Insider. This is an open provocation to Librarian. You are  1 light year out of topic with tacos recipe :)))))))))

To me - the bible cannot be separate and science cannot be separate.  Where the  bible does not give guidance we can see if a science idea fits - if it does not fit in with the bible (such as a ploy to negate intelligent design) then it should be rejected.
Jehovah is after all the great scientist, father of logic and reality. 
I have no problem understanding that the earth and heavens were created and then lay fallow for a long time until it was ready to prepare for life.  It obviously took some time for the earth to cool down and produce the water on the surface as well as the thick cloud of gasses above the surface.  
I think logic regarding the science we have available together with bible can explain a lot of things.
 

:)) do not give up, i am in the  same process

Matthew 5 v 48.  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (NWT)
King James Version.  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 
Perfection can possibly mean different things to different people, especially to God. 
Adam was created perfect, but he could not fly. If he had jumped off a mountain and tried he would have been in trouble. Does that mean he was not perfect ? I don't think so.  I think being perfect means being perfect for a specific job. 
The Anointed, that is the TRUE REAL Anointed ones, will be perfect for the work that God has for then to do. 

Srecko I can understand your point.  The GB / JW Org play with words here.  
But I think that any REAL Anointed person would be inspired of Holy Spirit.  Doesn't God's Holy Spirit enter in to them in such a way that they know they are Anointed ?        Galatians 4 v 6&7. 
Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, and it cries out:“Abba, Father!” 7  So you are no longer a slave but a son; and if a son, then you are also an heir through God.
Being a son and heir is surely being of the Anointed, and thus they have God's spirit 'in their hearts'. Surely that is inspired of Holy Spirit. 

If you don't mind i would like to provide little reminiscence about context in comment of your's.
3 What does Jesus’ illustration about the faithful slave mean? In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost of the year 33, Jesus appointed the faithful slave to care for his domestics. Since then, the slave is all anointed Christians as a group who live on earth at any one time. The domestics are these anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings,” everything on earth that is used to support the Kingdom preaching work. But after carefully studying this subject, praying about it, and meditating on it, we realized that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be changed. (Proverbs 4:18) Let us discuss the illustration and how it affects us, whether we have the hope of living in heaven or on earth. source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402013533
Right from the start, it is very important to note what the GB says about how (process) the interpretation of the Jesus words/text has changed. They give this explanation: "But after carefully studying this subject, praying about it, and meditating on it."  
As we clearly see here, there  is no single word about influence by Holy Spirit.They not used phrases as "we have been guided by HS" ,or "we have been motivated by HS" and because influence from God's Spirit we made this (small, big, important, not important) changes.
They just done 3 things that every average and responsible JW member (or even JW kid) doing every day. What is it? A) carefully study Bible, B) pray about, and C) meditate.   !!!!   NOTHING more or less!
But it seems how only GB is authorized to change understanding, globally, for all 8 mil JW members. According to WT credo, single JW is not authorized to change own understanding in this very same process that was described in WT magazine and other places in publications. If JW rank and file member dare to change established and official understanding of some GB doctrines, then he/she will be given a lesson and correction, rebuke or discipline. Confession and repentance are expected, or, he/she  coming  to be an apostate and dangerous individual in spiritual paradise.                                                                                                                                                                                           But when GB doing the same thing, no one of them have to show the humility of this kind. No one is above them to "rebuke" their inappropriate behavior. GB expressed false humility by word "we", but "we" almost always have one meaning - all JW community ...  
... and GB pushing COLLECTIVE FEEL OF GUILT FOR ALL WRONG EXPECTATIONS and WRONG INTERPRETATIONS. 
Now, back to the FDS of Mathew.
 
“IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . . .”
Jesus has given the faithful and discreet slave an extremely important responsibility. He has appointed this slave to care for the domestics and to give out spiritual food at the right time. Jesus said that those with greater responsibility have more expected of them. (Luke 12:48) So he ended his illustration about the faithful and discreet slave with a serious warning.
Jesus warned about an evil slave who believes that the master is taking too long to return and who starts to beat the other slaves. When the master arrives, he will punish that slave in a very severe way.—Read Matthew 24:48-51.
Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? No. It is true that some individuals have shown an attitude similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the “great crowd.” (Revelation 7:9) But these ones are not an evil slave class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning given to the faithful and discreet slave.
Notice that Jesus begins the warning by saying “if ever.” These words show that what Jesus next described would not necessarily happen. It was as if Jesus was saying: ‘If the faithful and discreet slave were ever to treat the other slaves cruelly in these ways, the master would punish him severely.’ (See also Luke 12:45.) But the faithful and discreet slave as a group has continued to stay alert and to give out spiritual food of good quality.
The anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave realize that their Master expects them to take good care of his domestics. These anointed brothers sincerely desire to care for their responsibility loyally so that when the Master finally arrives, he might say to them “well done.”
By this explanation GB class say: In today WTJWorg organization there is no evil slave class. Only some individuals outside of GB class members, will show an attitude similar to evil person slave. 
Well now, what are the Jesus words? Imagination, fantasy, parable, illustration, prophecy, good night story, moral lesson, reality in 1 century, reality for all centuries in future time, impossibly thing to ever happen, exemption only in some rare situations,  ...?   
"...logical fallback position - from a human standpoint at least."
Of course, human standpoint is only one we have always with us every day, after all :))) And beside plan a, it is also good to have b,c,d... But in that way of functioning we recognize and confess how points A) carefully study Bible, B) pray about, and C) meditate is mere human process with rarely moments of Inspiration (on single personal level) that come Above.
In GB class case that rare moments of (private level or class level) Inspiration from Above not coming on them at all, because they loudly claiming; "We are not inspired!"
To recall again on what WT magazine has wrote; as individuals, GB members are not FDS, as group who sitting together in one room they are FDS.  
Resume of such WT quotes/statements can be this:
1) as Private Person GB member is as every average JW who have no influence on Organization Moves.
2) as Collective Class GB members are doing the same thing with same result as every average JW member with one exception. And that is siting, reading, praying and meditate and making decisions where and how Organization will go .  
In both case outcome is the same -- "uninspired" decisions.    
I personally would not say how some sort of Inspiration from Above never came on me (in what ever issue). But, such personal feelings is in sphere of own interpretations/speculations what is/was happening. So, it can be true and/or false/illusive. Or some sort of mixed, unknown definition about what we going/went through. And would I made that as credo, doctrine that have to be reality for other people and their lives, about how Bible text come to fulfillment in my/their life?

Thanks for response, but i don't recall that  i have done any changes in title. But on other hand we all are imperfect ... and technology too :)))

Ops, issue of spirit again. According to some explanations Spirit works by spirit power. Manifestations of spirit power can be material or spiritual, i guess. Today it seems how this spirit not created material things. Also this spirit, according to some explanations not making powerful works in healing people, to rise up the dead people, no miracle feeding with bread, also not making people to speak what spirit want them to speak, etc.  Also, according to GB, nowadays people can not be inspired by this spirit (but only can be guided and motivated).
Well, i can not understand statements How this spirit helps with the rest, when he is not functioning today as spirit usually working as it is described in Bible? 
Also,  What is the difference in wording and more important what/how looks differences in  manifestation when;
- spirit inspired you, (spirit not inspired you)
- spirit guided you, (spirit not guided you)
- spirit motivated you, (spirit not motivated you)
How JW can recognized, differentiate and explain when one of this spirit acting is in progress?  

Every word of Christ was insightful, and valuable, warning us of the end and its circumstances.  The “wicked slave” is apparent in Revelation 13:11 who directs a “Beast” that conquers the anointed. Rev 13:1, 7 The “wicked steward/slave” “beats” his fellow servants. Matt 24:48-51   The anointed Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17)  is ruled over by the wicked slave's elder body/Beast.  Rev 11:1,2; 2 Thess 2:3,4 
Hopefully, the correlation comes clear that it all depicts the same scenario.  An entity lead by a false prophet coerces the remnant to fall for a delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12   Jesus’ words were not “just a parable” but a warning of what was to come upon the anointed remnant during the last days.   False prophets were readily spoken of throughout the Greek scriptures.  Captivity to “empty philosophy” fits right alongside with the teachings of false prophets.  Col 2:8
 
 

This can happen if a title of a topic is changed even slightly. (Because the URL changes and the service tracks via the URL)