Srecko Sostar

.... did they used Urim and the Thummim?... have they thrown the dice?
 
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us ...
 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us...
The Holy Spirit and we have agreed ...
The Holy Spirit has shown us that we should not...
For it is seen to the Holy Ghost and to us ...
 
In those times, people of today said so, miracles had took place and ended in 1 century. No more any gifts, no more any inspired words, no more any inspired works. No more inspired writings .... aka publications .... in WT Company :))
So, if Spirit influenced apostles and elders to made decisions, please will somebody say, explain HOW that was happened? How humans and celestial spirits had communicated ....... and made decision ?
 

who sees see what is not possible to see :)))
For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
"inspired"
"motivated"
"carried along by"
:))
At least four-five spirits are in existence and have influence:
 1)JHVH spirit   2)Jesus spirit   3) Holy spirit    4) Devil spirit    5))Human spirit   
So, we are living in a World/Worlds with so many INSPIRATION and INSPIRED persons :))))

That is an EXTREMELY good example .... that fact rock solid hard evidence, not agenda based fluffery and fuzzy thinking!
I am as critical of all the crap going on as anybody here is ... and probably know as much or more than most well educated people about such things .... but I have learned through interactions with MANY kinds of "organizations", not to expect too much from people in groups.
The example I most often recall to mind is this:
If you understand the Mission of the United States Marines, and their necessity in the real world to defend what is honorable, true and righteous ( ... in a very limited absolute sense ...), then for some, that mission was what you were born to do .... be a "Sheepdog", with fangs and claws ... to be the "point of the spear", to protect your fellow sheep ... who are many times scared of you.
It entails willingness to die, or live the rest of your life mangled and broken.  That's what the job IS.
But as the "Peter Principle", a VERY famous business principle states (paraphrased) "Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency".
You could be a very good Marine Sargent, and rise to be an incompetent Marine Lieutenant, etc., ad infinitum. 
A committee is a peculiar life form with at least six legs, and no brain.
This is ESPECIALLY true in fuzzy subjects such as Theology, where everyone is jousting for favor and position with God, and gets used to great piles of free money .... considering it their due.
The Governing Body is NOT the exception, and they have 16 legs.
This is ESPECIALLY true with anyone claiming to speak for God, whether it is kissing the Pope's ring, or admiring the Governing Body's Rolex watches and gold pinkie rings.
When you begin to live like Kings, that vow of poverty becomes irrelevant.
That  bears repeating, over and over ... as there is a VERY important core principle embedded in that innocuous  rock solid and true observation.
I personally fully understand that, and though I sigh and cry over all the unnecessary burdens and smelly crap we have to carry ... that I personally have been expected to carry over the years ... and silly irrelevant drivel we are expected to swallow, hook-line-and-sinker ... I still want to be a "Marine" .... just not an Officer.
The biggest problem we have ... is HAVING to recruit from deeply flawed but presumably well intentioned humans.
.... sigh.
... so does the United States Marines ... and THEY have rifles.

Yes I believe Jehovah has allowed much wickedness within JW Org, and I believe He has withheld His holy spirit from the JW Org too. 
But think of it from a different direction, Jehovah has often listened to His people. Maybe He has been waiting for those with a proper conscience to complain and moan about the condition of JW Org. I've said for many years that JW's do not take serving God seriously enough. It becomes part of their life and just becomes routine. My own brother who is an Elder would actually watch television whilst studying. Others whilst on the ministry would be looking for things in people's gardens, such as old classic cars that might be for sale. Using the ministry as an excuse to nose into people's property. Yes I've seen these things with my own eyes, and they just laugh as if it's the right thing to do. Then at the KH they look so upright and proper. So two faced. And I honestly believe that Jehovah is now judging the GB, the JW Org, the Elders, and the whole situation. Hence I do believe that Jehovah will remove the GB and straighten out the JW Org, then I will most probably return. But I will not be part of the disgusting things going on in the Org now. 

Jésus et les premiers chrétiens votaient-i  ?

... and here comes to surface, to day light our own, personal Conscience Integrity, Intellect Honesty, Freedom of Speech among/inside WT Organization who, with GB, are standing on Dogmatic Standpoint, dogmatic stance that is ready to declare such, a different opinion as apostasy, and to dfd person because of that. 

It is true, that the majority in the organization are very fine with their “life” that the they have signed up for when joining the organization. They are use to sitting through "boring" convention talks and wouldn't have it any other way.  They are not those who sighing and crying over the detestable things committed in “New Jerusalem” – the “city” of God’s people.  Ezek 9:4; Gal 4:26
Or, they tolerate the GB’s inconsistencies in agonizing silence, and out of fear of losing what life and friendships they have built inside.  Matt 16:25; John 12:25
It is also a fact that JWs have been manipulated into believing that any other anointed one just doesn’t have the ability to speak truth.  So, they willingly swallow the lies offered by the uninspired GB, as the only source of spiritual food Christ has provided.    What a psychological paradox. 
Well, you know where to find the sound cloud when it is produced, if ever you confront an abomination committed by the Watchtower that you find you just cannot tolerate.  Yet time is slipping by.  Rev 17 speaks of the false prophet being exposed for “her”/Harlot’s sins by the “Beast” “spirit-directed organization”. Rev 13:1,11,15,16; 17:12-18  Only for one symbolic “hour” will the Beast/organization remain before both the Harlot and the organization are thrown into the Lake of “burning sulphur”.  Rev 20:9,20   The GB will be disfellowshipped; yes, by a coalition of both elders and anointed ones – “ten kings”.   Some may even perceive this happening on the horizon; especially considering the child abuse issues and the two-witness rule.   Perhaps then you will have an understand of at least some of the abominations committed by God’s people.  But, we are told to act on the words spoken in Rev 18:4-8.   “My people” are the anointed ones; they and their companions are where you are, in the Watchtower. 
 

Jesus asked a question: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?". He did not gave the answer. The only clue he gave is how we can recognise the evil slave:  "he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards".
Now, we have no way to know who is the FDS, but by examining Christianity, including us as Jehovah's Witnesses, we can understand that all the leadership (from Papacy to Governing Body) are beating the flock.
The faithful slave will be appointed over all his belongings when Jesus returns, not before. (verse 47 of Matthew 24 is clear) So, how can the GB claims that they have been appointed on Jehovah's organisation since the first part of the 20th century?

So much for Jehovah not being a God of confusion.

As I see from quotations from WT publications that was brought on day light in Witness posts, it is understandable how GB class view themselves and their Organization. They see themselves as God's Spoke Persons, as Representatives, as Ambassadors, as Substitution instead Christ, as Prophetlike Organization, and logically if Organization is Prophetlike, than must exists people in such Organization who are Prophets in some or any sense of the meaning of this word Prophet. (for example if JW leaders and members as whole group talking and teaching  people, how future brings this and that, all who "preaching" such things are not only people who speaking about what they personally believe, they are not only messenger, agents, but sort of "prophets" too. No matter did they or did they not, personally or as group, source alone of some claim about future or just making repetition from Bible "prophesies".
Next thing. Bible said how we have two sort of "Prophets" and two sort of "Prophecies". True and False. Well, in  fact, no matter in what class some "Prophet" and "Prophecy" belong, he or she is "Inspired" by default. Because "Prophecy" as such must be "Inspired", otherwise it is not "Prophecy".
Logically follows the conclusion: Any person or group (as single or if belong to some organization) who talking about what will be, what the future brings , are some sort of "Inspired Prophets". Because person is and must be "Inspired" or "Motivated" to bring such stuff to other people.
Is some "Prophecy" false or true ?? This is another story. :))))))
      "Political leaders often end up being “false prophets” unable to fulfill their promises. Of course, not every ruler turns out to be a “Hitler,” whose promised “thousand-year reich” proved to be a disastrous 12 years of misrule. ... A very prominent political “prophet” of our present century was the League of Nations, formed in 1919. It foretold a world of lasting peace. But World War II unceremoniously dumped it into a pit of inactivity." Awake! 1981 Dec 8 p.14
In this Awake article we can see how far WT Company extends,  stretching the meaning of the word "prophets" and "prophecy". If you give promises to someone you are Prophets. Interesting! :)))))))))))))))))

Place me like a seal over your heart,
    like a seal on your arm;

As I see from quotations from WT publications that was brought on day light in Witness posts, it is understandable how GB class view themselves and their Organization. They see themselves as God's Spoke Persons, as Representatives, as Ambassadors, as Substitution instead Christ, as Prophetlike Organization, and logically if Organization is Prophetlike, than must exists people in such Organization who are Prophets in some or any sense of the meaning of this word Prophet. (for example if JW leaders and members as whole group talking and teaching  people, how future brings this and that, all who "preaching" such things are not only people who speaking about what they personally believe, they are not only messenger, agents, but sort of "prophets" too. No matter did they or did they not, personally or as group, source alone of some claim about future or just making repetition from Bible "prophesies".
Next thing. Bible said how we have two sort of "Prophets" and two sort of "Prophecies". True and False. Well, in  fact, no matter in what class some "Prophet" and "Prophecy" belong, he or she is "Inspired" by default. Because "Prophecy" as such must be "Inspired", otherwise it is not "Prophecy".
Logically follows the conclusion: Any person or group (as single or if belong to some organization) who talking about what will be, what the future brings , are some sort of "Inspired Prophets". Because person is and must be "Inspired" or "Motivated" to bring such stuff to other people.
Is some "Prophecy" false or true ?? This is another story. :))))))
      "Political leaders often end up being “false prophets” unable to fulfill their promises. Of course, not every ruler turns out to be a “Hitler,” whose promised “thousand-year reich” proved to be a disastrous 12 years of misrule. ... A very prominent political “prophet” of our present century was the League of Nations, formed in 1919. It foretold a world of lasting peace. But World War II unceremoniously dumped it into a pit of inactivity." Awake! 1981 Dec 8 p.14
In this Awake article we can see how far WT Company extends,  stretching the meaning of the word "prophets" and "prophecy". If you give promises to someone you are Prophets. Interesting! :)))))))))))))))))

The organization has the eyes of JWs focused on Russia and the governments for the end time fulfillment.
Where did Jesus focus his disciple’s attention for the signs of the last days?
 “Teacher,” they asked him, “so when will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” 
Then he said, “Watch out that you are not deceived.  Luke 21:7,8
We know Russia has not deceived JWs; nor any other government has deceived JWs, a people who stay out of politics.  Russia’s agenda has been made clear to the world for a long time.  Watchtower is fighting a literal battle with that country because they dissolved their material holdings.  The governing body covet their “riches”, while God and Christ’s only “earthly belongings” are His children who strive to follow His Son and obey His decrees, instead of men and their material riches.  Matt 6:19-21; Act 7:48-50; 17:24  His “special possession” is not made with wood and stone, but with “living stones” of His Temple.  Yet, those anointed stones are asleep to this fact.  1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22
JWs have been deceived by lies.    
“For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Don’t follow them.”
Or, “I am the Christ”.  “Christ” means “anointed”.  WT’s string of leaders are anointed ones, who claim to represent Christ; and who many times over the years have pointed to literal dates of the return of Christ.  
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matt 24:24
Although JWs have been soothed into accepting the follow-up of WT’s failed  prophesy as the necessary introduction of “new light”, God refers to it as falsehood, that is not left unpunished.
“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to My words that he speaks in My name.”  Deut 18:18,19
Jesus’ words were, “watch out that you are not DECEIVED” by false christs, false prophets.” 
“But the prophet who presumes to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’ 21 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:20-22
Are JWs like the Pharisees who seek a literal sign?
“He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.”  Matt 16:2-4
“Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
The organization is doing exactly the opposite by pointing to a literal observation in Satan's world as a sign of the coming of the kingdom of God.  Observed: seen with the naked eye. The Watchtower organization calls itself Zion, a tangible entity full of not only people but buildings, produced with money and investments. These buildings are revered as a temple would be revered.  Upon entering every aspect of this organization, one is believed to have entered a “spiritual paradise”.  It is maintained, cherished and touted as the only way to worship God.  It is “observed” by all JWs as an irreplaceable aspect of the coming  Kingdom of God.  
If we look at Russia as the King of the North simply because there is blatant animosity against it by the organization, then most assuredly you have been deceived. Revelation concerns Jesus’ “kings of the earth”, not the political powers of the world.  This battle is spiritual and the focus of Revelation.  John 10:10; Eph 6:11-17; 1 Tim 6:12; Rev 1:5; 12:11
The kingdom of God is in your midst:  Who comprise the Temple of God/Zion, Body of Christ, whose hearts are the dwelling of God?  The anointed ones.  1 Cor 3:16,17 They are the potential members of the Bride of Christ, to be one with him as part of the vine.  John 15:1-4  As living stones, they are tried and tested by Satan, who “sifts” them as wheat.   Luke 22:31  If deceit doesn’t take them down, they are victorious, and are sealed in permanently, through their faith and obedience, while one the earth.  They are, “in your midst”and are the true Zion.  1 Cor 15:54-57; 2 Cor 7:10; Rev 13:7;15:2  
Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other”.  Luke 17:22-24
Jesus indicated the essence of the battle that his people would come against after he left.   Truth against lies.  “Lightening” is the knowledge of truth that becomes apparent when God’s anointed have “run after” false prophets and their oppressive false priesthood, the elder body.  Lightening is the message about the Christ spoken through those whom he sends to “Israel”. They are the “carcass”, “killed”/disfellowshipped for their “testimony to Christ”. Matt 24:27,28; Rev 11:1-3,7; Rev 13:15; 12:17  
The Pharisees came as “Moses”, mixing truth with lies.  Jesus exposed them for who they were using his light to uncover their darkness. The GB come as “Christ”.  He gave us fair warning by saying test the teachings, which would help discern those whom HE would send, and those who cast their lot in with Satan. Matt 7:15-20  They are those who would throw truth “down to the ground”. Dan 8:12  He was speaking of individuals among his own people, “Israel”; then, and now. 
“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.”  2 Pet 2:1-3
This is the battle at hand and is being fought between the “kings” of “Israel”.  Please open your eyes and if nothing else, “see” just this one scripture: 
“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
Can you see that the end time preaching is to “Israel”, the anointed who are held captive under a “wicked slave”?  Matt 24:48-51
Do not go running after false “christs” who have repeatedly told you Armageddon was to arrive at a certain date.
This is one of the signs of the last days for us to perceive:
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.  2 Thess 2:1-4
Can you see that the trumpeting of dates and the trampling of the Temple/anointed priesthood doesn’t originate with political or religious leaders outside of the anointed group, but it is spearheaded by those anointed who have fallen from the grace of God?  Rev 8:11; 2 Pet 3;17; 1 John 2:19
The Watchtower has sent message after message of the prophetic “day of the Lord”.  1914 has stuck, since it is the foundation of the “generation” doctrine.  They will revise it and twist it if needed, until Armageddon is finished.  Matt 7:26,27
If the anointed are Abraham’s seed and the dwelling of God, they are God’s sons, His firstborn of ALL sons of God. They are also the habitation of God’s Spirit.  The Man of Lawlessness that “sits” in God’s Temple is not found in the governments or the religions of the world, nor is it a literal “holy place” deemed so by false prophets.   Matt 24:15  There is only one Temple of God that He recognizes, which is built with “living stones”.   John 2:19,21; Matt 16:18; 1 Pet 2:4-10; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 21:14; 14:1
This Temple is under attack with weapons of DECEIT.
2 Thess 2:9-12 – “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends (or allows Satan to send his “works”) them a powerful delusion (watch out that you are not deceived) so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
All JWs believe the lie that the end time fulfillments and coming Kingdom of God will take place through the physical developments in Satan’s world.  This is enforced by a wicked slave and the “lawless one”, who rules over God’s anointed priesthood, the elder body; the dual power of the Beasts of Revelation 13, who are Gog and Magog “surrounding the saints” with deceit.  Rev 16:13-16
Why would God’s Kingdom be born from Satan’s realm?  Can pure light be born from darkness?
“Who can bring what is pure from the impure?
    No one!”  Job 14:4
The great northern army that comes against God’s priesthood is described in Joel 1 and 2 and Rev 9:1-12  God “sends” or allows Satan to enact against the remaining “seed” of the woman covenant.
Why does he allow God’s people to fall under such an oppressive army?  Because “they refuse to love the truth”.  Whenever Israel sinned, God removed his protection and they suffered under the enemy.  This is why the anointed are allowed to be “trampled”. Dan 8:13   They serve the GB and not Christ.  They idolize an “organization” forgetting to give God “exclusive devotion”.   Deut 5:7,8; Rev 13:4   Spiritual “Israel” has allowed themselves to fall under the authority of the spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rev 11:1,2
Watchtower will tell you this army of locusts are the anointed ones, which is another lie, and outlined here:
w79 7/15 pp. 13-19 – “Preaching in a Lawless World”
Are they supposing that JWs will not see the outcome of the locust army described in Joel 2:20  How do they hide this from JWs?  You must ask yourself, Bible readers, why you missed the scriptures in Joel that show how the devastating northern locust army “tortures” GOD’S ANOINTED ONES.  2 Cor 11:13-15  For those who leave, losing the life they had known, (Mark 8:35)  but gain life through Christ,  God promises:
“But I will remove far from you the northern army,
And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land,
With his face toward the eastern sea
And his back toward the western sea;
His stench will come up,
And his foul odor will rise,
Because he has done monstrous things.”
“So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.
26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the Lord your God,” 
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame.
27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the Lord your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame.  Joel 2:20,25-27
Those anointed that escape the “lawless one’s” grip are the restored “Jacob”/”Israel”, the true Mountain of God. 
“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
32 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be [l]saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.
Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:26-31; Rev 12:1-5
 
Pearl Doxsey – 4womaninthewilderness  Look for, “Christ’s Return, When?”
 

I think the idea that the the Stauros might have been just an upright pole also came many, many years after Jesus' death, long after Christendom had already taken up a two-piece Stauros as a symbol.
In another thread you mentioned that it was 400 years after Jesus' death. Did you have a specific piece of evidence in mind?
I'll bring that statement over here for reference:
 

@Witness I will ask you a 3rd time. Give me the actual claim that they said they were inspired prophets.
I stated before twisting things in your favor does not equate to the claim of which you are accusing them of, I asked for inspired prophets, you bring up prophet-like organization when it is already know most Non-Trinitarians claim they are the True Church, but we have yet to see JWs, or ANY non-Trinitarian make claim to inspiration.
So I will ask you, @Srecko Sostar and @JOHN BUTLER
You all agree to the claim of which you profess that they inspired prophets, now I ask you, where did they make this claim?
And by the way, what you posted has been debunked just as the whole trust funds thing.
That being said, the claim of which I am asking you of regarding inspired prophets - I wait for from you - Witness, otherwise you are in deception by your own hand.
The fact no Anti-Trinitarian ever made that claim makes you far more than a liar than the doctrine that formed long ago in the Council.
Indeed, the next time you feel the need to mix, twist Strong's in your favor, perhaps do so to someone who does not know that information, let alone you making the assuming somehow God sent Satan to deal with Egyptians or trying to justify your belief in Man's Doctrine rather than God.

Unless someone shows me a photograph from the actual event from the 1st Century, and I argue about it, then there is absolutely no reason for me to be worried about treading a red line or being dfd . In any case, I am not even arguing now, I am just saying we can't be sure 100%. If the GB feel like they are sure 100% then that is their prerogative, but changes nothing about how I feel. I would need a lot more proof first.

Ok.
I will start new with topic about CONTEXT. 
greetings!

My goodness, a dictatorship. what were they frightened of ? I'm in shock ! 

The GB are humans. They are not inspired. they make rules. So the rules are human rules. 

Ok.
I will start new with topic about CONTEXT. 
greetings!

LITTLE Appendix for those who want presence of so called Context.  Here is example how WT "scribes" manipulates with Context !!!!!! 
Reasoning from the Scriptures, page 89, Cross; The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux(from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.   Text in red color is missing text in Reasoning book. Very important CONTEXT. Oh, context always problem with you:))) _____________________________________________________ The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole and this always reminded the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment a transverse piece of wood was commonly added; not, however, always even than.....  The following text continues, describing the types of crosses and the ways in which the convicts were murdered...,others extending their arms on a patibulum. There can be no doubt, however, that the later sort was the more common and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood. But this does not itself determine the precise form of the cross; ....  the text continues to describe 3 types of crosses.—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

I should dig deep in my pile of books really before writing this but :-
The GB of the JW Org make known that Jesus was put to death on a Stake. In the NWT (JW Bible) they use the expression 'torture stake'. Which is probably not a direct translation from the Greek.
In one of their publications they use a picture that shows Jesus hanging on a stake. His hands / wrists are  crossed over and he has one nail through the both wrists. 
In God's word we read about Thomas who doubted the resurrection of Jesus. Thomas said 
But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.”
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.” 26 Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”…
Berean Study Bible ·
Obviously there are many different translation of this scripture but it would appear that the word hands means hands, not wrists. And in some translations it uses the word nails = plural.  In the NWT it uses both, hands = plural, and nails = plural.  This refers to the hands only, not the feet.  
I wrote to the UK bethal and the reply i received was not good. Basically they told me not to bother them,  but to ask the elders.  If I can find the letter I would try to upload it but i may have binned it in disgust. 
So I am asking for people's opinions on this matter. Was Jesus killed on a stake or a cross  and how would you prove your point ?
 
 

Thank you for revealing more of Watchtower’s lies. 
In the quote above, they are comparing the WT organization to the anointed Body of Christ in the first century, where it has been made plain through scripture that there were inspired prophets designated so, by God.  If the GB are not “inspired” by Holy Spirit they should not make the comparison.   
 
Since they have a 100 percent fail rate, how does this show respect for prophesy?    I have yet to find a genuine heartfelt apology by the governing body or any WT leaders for misleading millions of people with their failed prophesies.   They are more inclined to pass the buck onto their hearers.  1975 is a prime example.   
Here is another:
"Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1926 p. 232.) 
Let’s go back to 1925 to identify the “some”:   
"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)
 Check the 1914 chronology to see its changes.  Check all of the dates for changes.  “Any possibility of erasure”???  They are such liars.  
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968) 
 "God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass." (Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146) 
By their own definition, they are false prophets.   
Prophecy can not be understood until it has been fulfilled or is in the course of fulfillment. From 1874 to 1914 the prophecy concerning the Lord's coming was being fulfilled and could be understood, and was understood, by those who were faithful to the Lord and who were watching the development of events, but not by others. (Creation; 1927; p. 290) 
'If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfillment is past, then these prophets are proven false.' (Prophecy, 1929, p 22) 
As I said, they are “inspired” through demonic inspiration.  If they were still part of the vine of Christ, they would naturally be "inspired" with Holy Spirit.  John 15:5; 1 John 2:27 
THE ARE FALSE “INSPIRED” PROPHETS.   Matt 12:34  
They may not join the word “inspired” to prophet, but God does not need to.  The dictionary makes it clear that prophets are inspired, as does the Watchtower itself.   
God – But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. 
This organization is supposedly GOD'S organization.  When every doctrine fails, then who is to blame?  The GB do not take the blame.  Is God to blame since His spirit supposedly guides it? 
Dictionary –  Prophesy - to utter by or as if by divine inspiration, to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge 
Watchtower’s Reasoning Book –
Prophesy - An inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. 
This definition just about covers all aspects of the Watchtower’s teachings within the "theocratic organization".   If the GB claim they are not inspired, then they should put down their pen, stop the printing presses and leave millions alone to find truth by turning fully to Christ and the Father.   
When a GB members says, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”, how do you believe this is possible if not through an “inspired” anointed one?  If God “pours out his Spirit on His organization”, where does all that spirit go?  Does it magically appear in word form in a magazine?  
The nation of Israel was governed from heaven through an authentic prophet – Moses.  Did you know the GB at times compare themselves to Moses?  They expect JWs to swallow this lie and also to accept they are not inspired.   On top of this, they must obey without question any doctrine doomed to fail.    
Where is the truth in any of this?  The truth is that the GB is guilty of false prophesy. Since they are unable to receive “inspired messages” from God, even though they claim they are anointed; not only because they say they are not inspired, but because they are led by another spirit, 
THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS TELLING LIES.  ACTUALLY, THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS CLAIMING AN IDOL – THE ORGANIZATION – IS THE ONE INSPIRED (since they say they are not)  as  GOD’S “SPIRIT-DIRECTED ORGANIZATION”.  
The Reasoning Book continues:
False prophets - Individuals and organizations proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will. 
Is the claim made on the front of the Wt. magazine below in harmony with the will of God?  Is it that hard to recognize a lie when you see it? Can you see how firm the statement is made on the cover that was circulated to thousands - millions of people in the world?  It is purely, false prophesy. 
Without a doubt, the Watchtower is guided by false “inspired” prophets, who have “breathed spirit” into the organization.  It is a spirit that has caused great harm, oppression, confusion, depression, division of families and loss of lives; pure darkness.   It is the farthest thing from a spiritual paradise that has ever existed.    Rev 13:1,11,15 
It is fruitless to further communicate with you on this, SM.    My hope is that JWs see through the organization’s lies and turn aside to Christ.
 
 
 
 

The sooner, the better!