Srecko Sostar

To be fair .... this is the Achilles Heel of ALL shamans, witch doctors, snake oil salesmen,  priests, clergy and other assorted religious leaders.  
Yes, the WTB&TS has always been wrong about everything they have ever tried to prophesy .... but then again .... so has everybody else.
... nothing to see here, folks ... move along ... these are not the droids you want.
In the history of civilization ... there have NEVER been any exceptions ... and there aren't any now !
This sort of thing ALWAYS, without exception, occurs when the Leadership starts dressing well, sleep warm every night, start accumulating real estate, managing huge piles of free money, and self-appoint themselves as the Laodicean Messengers of God.
If prophesy was easy ... In the early 1970's, I might have bought stock in Apple Computer or the Bubba Gump Shrimp Company.
..... Or I would have won the recent 1.68 billion dollar Lottery.
 

Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."
Wt. 972/4/1 -  "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" 
How do you think the prophetic claims are made?  Who voices them?  Someone other than the GB?  Their "prophesy" is not inspired by Holy Spirit, but through demonic "inspiration".  
Review the record.  It shows nothing but failed prophesy.  

It's not on page 76. It's a document that is 76 pages long on the topic of how Jehovah's Witnesses have adapted their child abuse protection policies in different ways depending on the law in various countries. It appears to the author that this is inconsistent and unexpected in a religion that takes a stand as if Witnesses know better than the national laws, and that the Bible authority would allow Witnesses to stand above the law. But the author does not understand that such an outcome can actually be a sign of a consistent recognition of Romans 13:1-5. Still, it's a pretty fair assessment and presentation of the problem and doctrinal/historical response among Witnesses. A few things wrong, but more right than wrong.

Thanks for this question. Many years ago similar questions went through my mind, about what David's servants and people around him and Bathsheba feels and thinking when they had passively and actively participate in that scandal, affair. What power forces them to be involved in wrong deeds of prominent persons in their midst? Many levels in hierarchy, family members, counselors, personal servants, other servants, elders, military leaders, religiously important persons and many others. All of them knew something, heard something, witnessed to something, not done something, ....and many more to tell and to feel.
Live that  to your imagination, because it is not simple to me to express all thoughts and feels. Just to tell at the and -----draw some  parallels to modern time, and you will see how all is the same. Everything is repeated cyclically. :))

Bravo SM ! What to expect from you SM, than your purposely attempt (stab) in redirecting responsibility of world biggest problems on individuals who are not suite to your Restoration normative (Butler and me and similar to us).
Your repetitions about what was previous comments of mine are and over and over again quoting what is said by this or that person is quite numbing.  Using such anesthesia is not useful in my case. Apart from proving that you have a good memory, the constant repetition of what was and when was someone had said something, does not show anything positive about you. :))
 

You should pay closer attention to exactly how SM answered this supposed claim that he was not (or is not) a Witness. Others have made this claim for him, but watch closely to see if he has ever made this claim about himself (up until now, at least). Positioning oneself here as a Restorationist Christian is not the same as claiming that one is not a JW. I think it might be a "ninja" thing. ?

I no longer attend meetings due to the Child Abuse problem earthwide in the JW Org. I left the Org in January of this year. I could not be part of what I'd found about. I could not encourage other people in to such dangerous situations. 
If i had stayed I would have passed on information to other congregants, then I would have been disfellowshipped for 'Causing a division within the congregation'. It was better for me to leave of my own choice and be free to use my own voice to tell anyone that would listen.
I could have stayed and become completely inactive, a Jehovah's bystander. But that would have silenced me, and by doing so, make me part of the problem. In my opinion if a person knows of danger but keeps quiet then they are almost as bad as the ones causing the danger. 
Many here say I am giving false alarms, but we each have to weigh up the situation and deal with it as we think best. 
 

I think you have misunderstood my question brother...I just dont understand why Brother Jackson advised the Australian Government to make it mandatory in every state to report....why don’t we just do that ourselves..worldwide...
I also think we should be allowed to ask such honest question without being accused of engaging in conspiracy theories...
I totally back you as far as the great deceiver being at work on the internet..causing divisions and doubts amongs Jehovah’s people...there is no forum on the internet that is safe...

Thanks for link. But i do not see what is on page 76 about G.J. quote. Please help.

OK, so lets have some truth spoken. Does anyone on here actually know if, The situation has arisen that a person is accused of being a pedophile and it is proved to be correct. If that person is allowed to remain in the Organisation, are the members of their congregation informed that this person is a proven Pedophile. Or, are the members of the same congregation informed that there is a Pedophile within their congregation.  As far as I know the congregants are not informed... 
Now, when our children were young, we were in a congregation in Bristol. Parents were told that during meetings their children had to stay with the parents. We had five young children but the congregation was kind enough to allow the use of the 'back room' for parents to look after disruptive / unhappy children. My wife and i often spent the meeting apart, one in the main hall, the other in the back room, but at all time we had all five children with at least one of us. 
Since living here in Devon we have found that the situation is different. Children can go and sit with whomever they want. Our children are grown up of course but we have grandchildren now.  I have seen three of our granddaughters all sitting separately with different people. This is helpful to their mother as her husband is not a Witness and does not attend meetings. But it does leave the situation wide open to one of those girls being abused, if mum doesn't know who she can trust and who she should not trust. 
So, in my opinion, the GB,  Organisation, Congregation Elders, have a Duty of Care, to inform the congregants if there is a Pedophile in their congregation. However i do not believe the congregants are informed. 

Thanks for this question. Many years ago similar questions went through my mind, about what David's servants and people around him and Bathsheba feels and thinking when they had passively and actively participate in that scandal, affair. What power forces them to be involved in wrong deeds of prominent persons in their midst? Many levels in hierarchy, family members, counselors, personal servants, other servants, elders, military leaders, religiously important persons and many others. All of them knew something, heard something, witnessed to something, not done something, ....and many more to tell and to feel.
Live that  to your imagination, because it is not simple to me to express all thoughts and feels. Just to tell at the and -----draw some  parallels to modern time, and you will see how all is the same. Everything is repeated cyclically. :))

well does this means how  also exist false apostate :)))) and something in a middle of true and false ?

I understand your points and you have expressed them very well. I will address each point you raised separately, but first I just want to mention a few general things which have perhaps shaped the perception of people like you and me. I grew up in the "truth" in the early 80's when the GB was mostly an anonymous mystery, at least to many who were living outside of America. The "truths" people like me assimilated during those years were turned into dogmatic doctrines by people like me. We always talked starting a phrase with "we KNOW....." as if we could never make a mistake. We had a general attitude of superiority. WE had the truth and therefor WE were somehow better than other people. WE had an answer for "everything".

And then came the age of the internet. It was a kind of "Internet enlightenment". It had been around for a while before that, but soon everybody had access to it, and was using it. Information that the ordinary person wouldn't have had before, became available to them at the touch of a button. There were things that were "discovered" by the ordinary brother and sister that were there all along, but that were only known by more prominent brothers and sisters, which included those involved with Bethel, but also ordinary brothers and sisters which happened to live closer to the "source" . But now the ordinary brother came to know things that at times "shocked" him, because in their little personal world they had built a picture, but that picture wasn't always correct. As I mentioned, dogmatic opinions on various subjects were formed, which actually were not intended to be understood that way. Here is an example of what I mean; I am sure you know of instances yourself, where a elder giving a talk would  expound on something he felt strongly about. A kind of "pet" subject of his. Most of the time the audience would take what he said as gospel truth, and talk about it like it was fact and part and parcel of "official" teachings. But all it actually was, was the brothers opinion. This happened many times  in the days of only a brief outline of a talk, giving the speaker much freedom to practically say anything he wanted.
A classic and famous example is that of Charles Sinutko giving the talk about 1975. He wasn't just an elder, but a district overseer, and he gave that misleading talk in front of an audience of thousands. Similar talks were given around the world no doubt. I was too young at the time but @Outta Here remembers such talks, and also the almost "fanatical" approach of some in the congregations. Was this all the GB's doing? It wasn't, but it shows the freedom that existed with regard to expressing ones opinion in an "official" setting, by means of talks etc. As you probably know, now there are strict outlines for talks. Not only that, but elders are instructed to Only give the Bible's advice when serving in a shepherding or judicial capacity, and never give their personal opinions. I am sure this new approach became a necessity because of the damage personal opinions had caused in the past.
One I want to focus on specifically  is the handling of child abuse. The congregation was well equipped to prevent child abuse on the surface. But it was all contingent on members actually reading and applying what was in the publications that discussed those issues. The JW congregation has always been very strict on upholding moral standards. In comparison, the rest of the world was in a moral decline (think "free love" that started in the 60's) and with it no doubt came problems associated with loose morals. Secular authorities were ill equipped to handle accusations of rape and child sexual abuse, as you yourself can testify.  In this environment Elders were trying to handle something that was disgusting and shocking and should have never occurred in the Christian congregation in the first place! Some Elders got confused and misapplied WT 1973/11/15 "question from readers" regarding the application of 1 Cor 6:1-7, and the interpretation of 1Timothy 5:19.  Many Elders were stuck between a rock and a hard place with regard to reporting to the police because of the way the police handled (or not handled) these cases, and because many victims and their families did not want to report to the police. It was almost like an attitude of: "this is our private problem, and we will handle it as our private problem". 
Finally today, secular authorities are educated and equipped enough to address these issues properly, and I would say we are at the pinnacle of "enlightenment" with regard to CSA, at least in the western world. Victims are at last able to come forward and be heard. Abusers are being tried and punished. This has also spilled into historic sexual abuse of women as in the #metoo brigade. BUT despite all this, CSA and the abuse of women is as rampant as ever unfortunately....

You have a good heart John and I feel you have unnecessarily thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
But I do want to address those issues individually that you mentioned, but I will have to do that tomorrow now as I am running out of time and have to go and cook dinner....
 

The GB have stated in true February 2016/2017 ..not sure of the dates ...that the FDS has not been appointed as of yet....and are yet to be judged...
They then went on in the last half of that article to state why they feel it is them and why they  feel Jesús will find in favour of them.....rather presumptuous of them I thought ....
Again..David was annoited and deliberately disobeyd Jehovah ...for his own selfish gain....just because you are annoited...or have been invited does not mean you are perfect...and besides many are invited and few chosen....
what would you have done if you knew about David’s sin....how would you have sorted that out????
 

I found only this verse mentioned "Children" , and how "King" is asked, called  to protect them.
But i was hoping that you would give some Bible verses where children are instructed how to deal with molesters (of any kind). 

The thing is Srecko, SM doesn't believe the JW's have it right, or he would be one.  

Ok, that is nice hope. What is the reason that God's Kingdom watching all these misery, pain and tears of children who suffer? And do nothing? (waiting to see would your possible respond will be the same as WT publication explanation :::)))))
Next. You said GK is ONLY who can clear all that. So, in other words it is the same as you or someone else say how all efforts that people doing is in vain, useless at the end of day.
By that logic, God will not blessed or guide or  inspired nothing and nobody in their efforts that this monstrous and evil problem be "solved" or at least minimized. Because, all blessing is on future Kingdom and not on  this, today human now living on Earth. 
 
Out of this subject. But you are talking so much of JW as "Restorationist" christian group. Web provide me this:
"Restorationist" denominations include:
The Christadelphians,
The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ),
Churches of Christ,
The Community of Christ,
The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS),
Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ,
International Churches of Christ,
Jehovah's Witnesses,
Seventh-day Adventists,
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons)
etc.
I am not sure that JWorg would be happy to be in same "pot" with this other denominations.  Because, according to WT only JW teaching "the truth", and no one else on this list  :))

Just in case anyone might misunderstand, I would like to make it clear that I am neither disgruntled,  or non-disgruntled, but am merely moderately well gruntled.

yes, 40+ years in JWorg .... and it can be said -- it was under some sort of rock :))))))) 
be careful, this is cryptic rocky message :)))))))))

but i am talking about JW, Bible and issue
but i am talking about JW, Bible and issue
perhaps bigger font and color will help :=)

@Space Merchant Quote :  "Indeed we do, but one of us is able to see what is going on with today's society while the other does not allow himself to see what is going on in the world."  How strange you should think that way .    .Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22"                                                                                                                                                                                                 They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1 I cannot be bothered to look for more but these two prove the point. 
They preach the 'Good News of God's Kingdom' to bring more people into the JW Org, because they believe it is only when a person is in that Org that people can be saved. 
Sorry SM I do realise it is a waste of my time trying to converse with you. Have a good day. 

I could answer you on many of the things you have written but in honesty i cannot be bothered. There is no point. We have totally different viewpoints, so be it. 
The GB / JW Org have said many times (and it has been in print on here) that a person has to be a JW member to be saved through Armageddon. Now you are not a JW, so you must have your own reasons for not being a JW. And I would think you do not agree with the GB of the JW Org on the point of being saved only through them.  
You must have reasons for not being a JW, yet you defend them so well. It is your choice.
You seem to think I want to destroy the JW religion, you are wrong. I want to see the JW Org cleansed, so that if it is God's chosen organisation then God can use it to the full.  BUT if it is God's chosen religion then you should be careful, as you are not one of them.  So maybe when Jesus comes to judge us he may find that you are not among his faithful followers. 
Now you have said that the number of JW's is increasing, but that may not be in a true sense. As I've said before, they seem to be allowing much younger children to 'put in reports' of doing the ministry. The number of JW's earthwide is counted by the number of people doing the ministry. In the past it would only be the older members, not the very young children, putting in a monthly report. However it would seem possible that very young children are being allowed to put in reports, and so pushing up the numbers falsely. Jesus sent out men, not very young children, into the ministry. The JW Org seems to be doing all it can to make things 'look' good. 

Maybe it's not that Jehovah needs me or others to make complaint, BUT maybe Jehovah wants me and others to make complaint. Now that could be a sifting of those that want a clean Org to those that are prepared to remain in a disgusting Org. Jehovah often has heard the voices of His people and then acted on their behalf. 
So in your opinion what does Jehovah think of the way the GB and Elders deal with the important problems within the JW Org ? Because in my opinion Jehovah is withholding His Holy Spirit from the GB and the Org at this time.  
However i do like that bit where you say "i will end this conversation now because it would appear you are hell bent on exposing only the errors  .... " At least you recognise that there are errors, thank you. 
And you would say that Jesus 'had a big mouth' too then ? The way he spoke to the Pharisees many times. Truth hurts, so you can say i have a big mouth and I will understand your pain. 
Is it me that is making the preaching work harder, or the Pedophile elders and others that bring Jehovah's name into disrepute ? Come on, open your eyes, it's earthwide news now. From that viewpoint it doesn't need me to add to it, people out there already know. I don't get involved in the protests but i know there are protests in many countries about the problems within the JW Org. Has Jehovah planned all this ? Is it serving a purpose ? Is it a testing ? But why would anyone want to be part of such an Org that has known about these things for between 20 and 50 years, and not done anything about it apart from keep records ?  
"you have too much bitterness John" Indeed. Have you been a victim of Child Abuse ? If not then you have no idea. 

You are missing the point. What you follow is the GB's interpretation of the scriptures. And the GB say they are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. So what you follow is the GB that guess about things after they themselves read the scriptures. And as I've said, the GB even make note that they might not be right. 
So for instance, you go on the ministry with a magazine or book to offer to people, but the information in those publications is only guess work by the GB. So it may not be true. You could in fact be offering lies. 
If you teach direct from the Bible that is much better, but you have to have an accurate knowledge of God's word. 
You follow your GB through your elders. You do Not follow God through Jesus christ. 

funny, SM calling me "cryptic" .... so here i am not alone :)))))))))