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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    That's why I am a big fan of the fictional character John Wayne ... he can endure ANYTHING, and barely notice.
  2. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    ohh dear god....you talking as some subversive element.....Bible say how secular authority is "god's public servant". 
    “Rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good.” - Romans
    What sort of gospel you preaching? :)))) 
  3. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    slander /ˈslɑːndə/ noun LAW   1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. "he is suing the TV company for slander"   Judith I think you will find it has been proven that these things happen, hence it is not slander but truth
  4. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    @JW Insider "For many decades the entire anointed remnant was considered to be the "faithful and discreet slave" and this probably raised the question about why they weren't ever involved in doctrinal issues unless they were already part of the Writing Department or Service Department at Bethel. Now, as of 2011, this has changed and the GB claims to be the equivalent of the FDS, which tends to remove the question about why the rest of the anointed are not involved" .
    @JW Insider "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute" 
    Wow, here we have something to work with. 
    Let's think on this. All the Anointed were once seen as the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. However the GB, who are not directly guided by God, decided to demote the rest of the Anointed, and to Exalt themselves. 
    Luke 14 v11 'For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted'. 
    So we know that the rest of the Anointed humbled themselves when they were demoted, and we know that the GB exalted themselves by saying only they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. 
    Now regarding true guidance from God. Jesus said to his Apostles, who are of course of the Anointed,  John 14 v 13 & 14.
    Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
    Also, For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened.  Indeed, which father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will hand him a serpent instead of a fish?  (Luke 11 v 10 & 11)
    Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11 v 13.
    So your GB that claim to be the 'Faithful and Discreet slave' should be able to ask God, through Jesus Christ, for Holy spirit, to be able to interpret scripture correctly. 
    And your statement that "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute" should be wrong.
    However it can be clearly seen that the 'food' given is often wrong. Even to my first point on this comment, about who is really the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. And yet again in the 'clarifications' we have already spoken about. 
    I have a theory, a bit far fetched i admit but :-
    In one of my comments I said the GB should be removed and replaced. Then someone here said that no one was in a position to remove th GB. Now, perhaps the GB demoted the rest of the Anointed because the rest of the Anointed do have the right to remove the GB and replace them. After all, who can say that those 8 men are more important and should have more power than the rest of them. It may be God's plan in the near future to use the rest of the Anointed to remove the GB and to clean up the JW org. 
    It's just a thought. 
  5. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    Agree with your explanations how more important, or if we can say also, only important thing is, what we are, who we are, what sort of person we are and want to be.
    If it is so, and how almost all of us here agree with such view, i believe, then all such Corporative and  Organizational  preparing and sharing of so called spiritual food ( read WT publications and talks) is/are almost unnecessary, meaningless or redundant. Why? Because of never ending process of going beyond what is written, and striving to keep members in obedience to man (WT Corporation), not to God. 
  6. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    ohh dear god....you talking as some subversive element.....Bible say how secular authority is "god's public servant". 
    “Rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good.” - Romans
    What sort of gospel you preaching? :)))) 
  7. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    How very true your words are. The GB have to keep throwing crumbs to the sheep to keep the sheep happy. Even if the crumbs are false hopes. It is good that other people, such as yourself, can see  this too. 
  8. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    I am 72 years old now, and I remember when my Mother took me to Assemblies that lasted 9 hours for two days, discussing "Gog of Magog" ... and it changed again, and again, and again over the following 63 years, until I no longer care ... and I strongly suspect that NO ONE has the slightest clue of who "Gog of Magog" is... although as a collective group of presumably influential people ... I DO HAVE my suspicions.
    IF I KNEW ... it could not possibly affect my life in any way whatsoever.
    Zero
    Zip Nada.
    GOG OF MAGOG PER THE EZEKIEL BOOK:

     
    GOG OF MAGOG PER JTR:

  9. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    i meant, better or worst Decision Maker :))
  10. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    Double honor?? For what "hard work of teaching" dear Insider? For repeated wrong interpretations? For new "clarifications" that will come to be called "previous errors", "wrong expectations" and other phrases in WT terminology?  :))  
    Every, each time this "new clarification" make JW members to have, not new clarification, but NEW HOPE, because "this time this must be true" ..in mind (read fantasy) of person only. :))
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    Very interesting information which confirms another of my feelings. The GB are not the faithful slave class.
    I do love your use of the word 'clarifications', when in fact you mean, change of meanings. 
    And i will repeat my question here, If the GB are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' why do they not get it right first time ?
    Surely God does not give them false information ?  
    A faithful and discreet slave would make sure the food he fed the domestics was good pure food, otherwise the Master would not be happy if the slave fed poison to his domestics and killed them spiritually, or at least stumbled them in many cases.
  12. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    I think the real reason this pic was included is to show that Armageddon will definitely come soon. While Herd is still alive. This way they can say it’s going to happen soon without getting into a 1975 situation and locking in a deadline. This way it’s on the publishers for thinking it’s soon and they will take the blame.
  13. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in The Government Versus Jehovah's WItnesses   
    Dammit man! The peace and security of this country is at stake!
     
    The above picture from the new Ezekiel book is a representation of what Jehovah's WItnesses believe is "Gog" or Governments plotting against JW's "pure worship" looks like.
    Gog and Magog in the Hebrew Bible may be individuals, peoples, or lands; a prophesied enemy nation of God's people according to the Book of Ezekiel, and according to Genesis, one of the nations descended from Japheth, son of Noah.
    The government has televisions on the wall watching Sam Herd and the Warwick Watchtower while plotting against jw.org.
    This evil plan looks to be directed by a politician and some military men.
    The military man is reading a Watchtower brochure or so it appears.
     
  14. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    It's not just available facts ... it is the skill individual people have or do not have in CORRECTLY EVALUATING those facts.
    There are Good Detectives ... and there are Bad Detectives.
    Bad Detectives do not detect much.
  15. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Very interesting, thank you. Although I will disagree with you on some points such as :-
    'It also helps us build a Christian character that can keep us free from the world's immorality, '  That hasn't worked in a lot of cases has it ? 
    'I still associate and preach regularly'. This is one of the things I could not continue to do because the point of preaching is not only to teach others about God, but to bring people into the congregation. I no longer felt  that the congregation was a safe place to bring people into, especially young children. 
    'I don't consider myself to be as "obedient and loyal" a Witness as others, '. I liked this bit, that was how I survived as long as I did in the Org, by not being as obedient as others were...  
    'The problems certainly do not outweigh the good'. Now that depends if you are a Victim of one of those problems or just a bystander. 
    This comes back to my point about collateral damage. Brothers and sisters that are not Victims do not understand nor do they even want to know. 
    'It's much easier to be a Christian with a loving brotherhood of Christians around us, related to us in the faith'.  Um, that depends upon the weight that the Org puts on people's shoulders. And it depends on the type of Elders you have too. Unfortunately some Elders do lord it over the congregation and make life miserable for the congregants. 
     'It's not specifically the doctrines', no because they change the meanings so often ... 
    'There are hundreds of people in our brotherhood whom I love dearly, and I could not associate with them or do things for them if I chose to leave'
    This is an important point. Because people build their lives around the JW Org. It becomes a social thing as much as a way of serving God. So if a person, such as myself, choses to leave, then they are deliberately cut off, not just from the religious aspect, but from a complete social circle of people. Shunned, isolated, ignored. 
    I was lucky (maybe should not use the word lucky) that i became friends with a business man from London that owns a large seme-derelict mansion close to where i live. So I've spent most of this year doing unpaid work for him, clearing his mansion of furniture and car parts. It came about because of my wife's interest in old buildings and photography. So my wife and I have been happy to have the keys to a mansion and be able to go there any time we want. Without this interest and work i may have gone crazy. I will add i didn't do the work for the owner, i did it for my wife, so that she could go there as and when, and I did it for the mansion itself to give it back some dignity. It's been great therapy.  
  16. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    @JOHN BUTLER here is a recent case from the UK.  It seem that the authorities were the ones that delayed. This is a good example of the fact that reporting to authorities does not automatically assure success. You can read the whole article here:
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/devious-righteous-christian-raped-two-15274172
    An "arrogant" Jehovah's Witness subjected two girls under the age of 13 to years of systematic assaults and rapes.
    Roy Collins, 80, was branded as "devious, righteous and arrogant" by a judge at Swansea Crown Court.
    He had spent a decade systematically grooming, abusing and raping the two girls.
    At one point during his campaign of abuse, one of their mothers burst into the Jehovah's Witness church in Swansea and publicly accused him of being a paedophile only to receive a letter from his solicitors warning her not to harass him.
    Carline Rees QC, for the prosecution, read out impact statements from the two victims.
    One said she had lived with the abuse for years before telling her family.
    When she did so, the news had a "devastating effect" on her mother.
    She said the abuse had an "significant impact" on her life, adding: "Every day I am happy if I can just make it through".
    In her statement, the second victim said the abuse had led to her have trouble at school and to start taking drugs to try to "block out" what was happening. She said her suffering and pain continues to this day.
    The court heard that one of the victims made a complaint about Collins in the 1990s, but he was not prosecuted.
    The allegations were reported to the police again in 2013 - but it took five years for the matter to come to court.
    Judge Geraint Walters told the defendant that his actions during the 1980s and 90s had been "truly wicked".
    He described Collins as a "devious, arrogant and self-righteous man" who had lived behind veil of respectability partly through his contact with the Jehovah's Witness church.
    The judge said that an example of his deviousness was the fact that when the allegations against him started to be investigated, he went to his GP claiming that he had suffered erectile dysfunction for the last 30 years.
    Judge Walters said: "You are, in my judgement, a devious man, a self-righteous and arrogant man. You have shown no remorse what-so-ever towards your victims or anybody else.
    "You have lived the better part of you life, you have been able to do that - your victims have not.
    "There is no sentence I can pass that will restore the lives of the victims to what they might have been but for your behaviour."
    He added that the case showed that when allegations of sexual abuse were made they should be tested and investigated not disbelieved.
    He called the the five year delay in the case eventually coming to court "unforgivable".
    But he praised the officer who eventually took-over the case and saw it through to conviction, saying that for the first time the victims had been treated with the dignity they deserved.
  17. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Well it seems as if Billy the Kid doesn't believe such things, nor True tom. 
    As for why I left and you didn't, different personalities etc, yes probably. And a lot to do with the fact that i got fed up with being told to be 'humble' about everything, which doesn't actually mean be humble it means shut up and do as you are told. 
    As for restarting our conversation, most people here are fed up with hearing from me. Understandable I suppose as truth hurts when it is unpleasant..  
    I know you didn't start it Anna, nor would you have I'm sure.  
    I suppose being turned away from a Kingdom Hall once (Reading my hometown),  being told I couldn't get baptised when i was ready, then being told when to get baptised when i wasn't ready, being in a congregation where an Elder commited suicide (Bristol ), having the teachings I'd been taught at first changed to different teachings, seeing another Elder disfellowshipped and police involved, being threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander, and then a brother being murdered in 'our' Kingdom Hall, then all this Child Abuse problem Earthwide, well it all added up. But up until the time I found out about the Child Abuse problem, i was being humble, doing as I was told, I was hanging in there....  
    The JW Org has been no pleasure to me, not because of opposition from outside, but because of what i've seen from inside. 
  18. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Space Merchant in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    And yet the common man recognizes child abuse is everywhere, an they are not focused on a sole group and or person, for wherever there is a danger of such a thing it is concerning, anywhere and everywhere, if you actually take into account what PSA and other information says about Child Abuse and Neglect, you'd realize that yourself.
    Granted to what Mr. Butler said before in an early discussion, one can see where he stands, I wouldn't call it activism when the grand majority knows that this is a problem, for if anyone has great concern it should be to educate people and seek better solutions.
    If his concern was with all institution he would have stated this, but he has not, for his one and only focus, as it is evident in half of his posts, is regarding Jehovah's Witnesses only unless you want to point out to where his concern is drawn out elsewhere - be my guess.
    The more you speak only shows how very little you know about the history of Christianity, perhaps the Abrahamic Faiths.
    I've explained to you 4 times what a Restorationist is and or what is Restorationism, but it would seem what is said goes in one ear and out the other, instead of repeating myself I will link so you know what it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorationism
    What you missed in the New Testament is the fact that God by means of his Son will get rid of all things wicked, even people, he will always erased from the earth all things that has been a burden on us and all things that has affected us in a bad way, this includes all imperfections that originate from sin -including child abuse and ill desires. If you miss that point in the Bible, let alone what God's Kingdom will bring, how do you say to yourself you read the Bible and understand it when something this minor you fail to accept?
    Perhaps get preached on this as well as research, Srecko - for if you do not trust in God, there is no reason for you to seek now is there?
    And ye we have the Babylon in Texas - LIVE, right now. And no, not all denominations claim such as for WT  they are Restorationist, the link I provided for you will show you want they base their practices and teachings on.
    Did you not understand what was going on in the Old Testament? Israel had enemies, especially those who curse God and spare no remorse when it comes to defiling God's people, the very reason people had to step up. Last time you spoke of Barak and now we see the contradiction, only things time you didn't confuse his role to a Prophetess.
    They have a name, it is called Messianic Jews, that is, if you are referring to today. Messianic Jews do not follow the early church or her teachings, they open themselves up to things that is accursed and or not aligned with what is said in the Bible. Some of them willingly accept non-Bible canons as truth.
    The Apostolic Church and it's early Christians are National Christian denominations? How are you so sure when they are borderline Subornationist an the fact you missed what Apostle Paul said in Galatians?
    They are not part of the world not by what their teachings says, but the fact they adhere to Restorationism (I suggest you study this for I give this to you as Homework, hence the link), whether you agree with them or not. The biggest proof of that, today even, is what is going on in Texas, as well as the reaction by some JWs, who show the same reaction to Together 2016, as others have, as well as those who reacted to the Kairos Movement. 
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    To give more clarification. JW under influence of GB have "mantras" that said; Light gets brighter, FDS aka GB are not inspired but are guided,  We have The Truth, and similar.
    In that sense (as general view of WT) JW are as "continuation" of unique Christian congregation of 1 century and "continuation" of apostle and Jesus "unspoiled" teachings about God and holy scriptures, and as such, they have own "world that belong only to God", or they are "part of God's world", as i understand your state.
    But as we see also "continuation" in doctrinal changes and by that in behavior and acts that are allowed or stopped to be  allowed, or that are forbidden or stopped to be forbidden, shows that idea of "been part of God's world" have changing effects in life of JW.  JW said how JHVH is god who can not and not change, but his followers and worshipers aka JW  making changes with justification how such changes coming from god , but in same time explaining how JHVH is in fact unchangeable :))). In fact GB try to prove how same teaching JW have now is the same teaching apostles and Jesus had before and vice versa, teaching that apostle had is same that JW have now. 
    So, all is "the same" and all is "as in first century congregation", but light gets brighter or changes are viewed as normal evolution process despite the claim how JW nowadays just imitate first congregation and living as first Christians. This is strange idea. WTJWorg try to explain something that is not true in fact. Enumerate how primitive congregation was preach, not went  to warn not celebrated pagan holidays and some other stuff is nice, but to making never ending changes and flip-flops of doctrines and in same time proclaiming himself as the successor to the first church is funny.
    :)) sorry for "cryptic", unclear English language sentences. People who are able to understand me have that something in brain that helps  to see what i try to explain :))
  20. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    We will probably find that the appeal will include exactly those arguments in defense of the the WTS. On appeal, the judgment will likely be reduced to less than $10MM because the excuse to raise it to $30+MM was very tenuous. Appeal was guaranteed on that count alone. But if the WTS attorneys can move the fault to local congregation elders, then the monetary judgment will be minimal.
  21. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    A site that appears closely related to Barbara Anderson's activism has an article claiming to be from an Elder who recently left over the same issue of Child Sexual Abuse. https://scaars.org/2018/10/16/an-insiders-account-about-how-a-report-of-child-sex-abuse-is-handled/
    It highlights the problem brought up by John Butler. These are from 3 through 6 of the 10 bullet points from that article:
    Two elders would be assigned to talk to the victim and her parent to gather details. If they determine that the child is giving a truthful account, they would report back to the Coordinator about their findings. The proper legal authorities would still not be notified. Their next step would be to call the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTBS) in New York. The Legal Department would then direct them as to whether or not they are legally obligated to contact the proper legal authorities to report the case. The default stance taken is that, unless there is a specific state law directing them to do so, the authorities need not be notified. The elders then determine if there will need to be an internal judicial hearing about the accusation. If there is only one witness to the abuse, as is the case in almost every instance of sexual abuse, they will not pursue it further. If there are two witnesses to that specific instance or if there are multiple reports from different children that this has happened at the hands of the same person, they will form a judicial committee to determine whether the offender is repentant. This committee will decide whether the offender can remain a member of the congregation or will be excommunicated, or disfellowshipped according to Jehovah’s Witness nomenclature. If the offender is not disfellowshipped, other members are not informed about the situation. At the most, an announcement might be made that the offender was “reproved” but displayed repentance. No mention of the type of crime will be divulged to the congregation. Parents will be unaware that a sexual offender is in their midst. They will continue to socialize and trust that their children are safe even in the presence of the offender.  
  22. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    @Anna  "Problems have arisen because this situation needs also to be handled secularly, and if the perpetrator is found guilty, to be punished by secular law also, not just disfellowshipped."
    We agree on that point. So why does the GB withhold information ? If all the accusations that the GB have on record were handed over to the 'proper secular channels', then all the accusations could be dealt with and those found guilty could be punished. 
    Whilst now, even if a person has been disfellowshipped, they are still a danger to children outside the Org. And i come back to the 'duty of care' to the Victims and the general public. 
    And as for your 'proper investigation'. It does not take much for an Elder to ask a Victim, 'Do you have witnesses' and for the Victim to say No. Then the Elder say 'There is nothing we can do then'. Investigation over.  
  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    But isn't this just going round in circles. The Elders conduct a Scriptural investigation, but only if they believe Child Abuse has taken place.
    If they dismiss the Victim as telling lies, because the victim does not have two witnesses, or no solid proof, then the 'investigation' is almost nothing. Many victims have said they were not believed. So it's back to square one. Elders are not trained investigators to investigate such matters. 
  24. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Rumor has it that the problem in the Montana court case that produced a 34 million dollar judgment against the Watchtower (to be appealed) made it very easy for the jury to agree. It was because the local elders had destroyed so much of the paperwork, but that the S77 form that they sent to the WTS had said explicitly that they were able to disfellowship him without any report to the authorities (in a state where it is illegal not to report). Unfortunately the WTS had attached a note to the returned copy for the local file saying, in effect, 'Good job.'
    This is why the judgment was based on a percentage of the supposed value of the WTS itself.
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    To prove? People who are educated in searching, investigating, and have resource and are legitimate for entering inside system as Watchtower Company, have to be people from outside of "Organization". Of course, some "Insider" can be helpful in providing further details and introspective information to such team of people.    
    In every religious organization (here are of great concern such organizations) exist people who have interest to hide and people who have interest to reveal. WT JWorg is not above this "human influence" :))) 
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