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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Jehovahs witnesses and higher education   
    Elders will be deleted if a family member is pursuing a university education. 2nd paragraph bullet point 3.

  2. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Jehovahs witnesses and higher education   
    Help! College is filling my mind with 'HARMFUL PROPAGANDA'.

  3. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Jehovahs witnesses and higher education   
    He reiterated this again just today!
    Gerrit Lösch gives a special talk the Norval Assembly Hall in Georgetown Canada
    There were 2 sisters who got up and had a dramatization about a sister not wanting to go to College. I will paraphrase as best as I can.
    High School Counselor: ''Have a seat Karen and I will show you all the College applications I have for you.''
    Sister: ''Thank you for all the work you have done.''
    Counselor: '' I have an application from Harvard,one from Michigan University,and a couple from the East Coast.''
    Sister: '' I have done alot of thinking and decided not to go to any College."
    Counselor: ''Karen,you have a 4.0 grade average and scored very high on the A.C.T. and you would have no problem getting into any of these schools."
    Sister: '' As you know,I'm a Jehovah's Witness and we believe that we are near the ''end times.'' I decided that I will go into the preaching work part time and maybe go to a 2 year school."
    Counselor: ''You will probably get into these schools at almost no cost because of your 4.0 average and high A.C.T. scores and have a good career the rest of your life.These are great schools and will prepare you to land a good job.''
    Sister: ''This world is passing by and may not be here any longer. I decided to enter the ministry work and Jehovah God will provide for me in the future."
     
    He brought up the fact that "70% of freshman go to post-secondary for MORE MONEY" - of course this is what ppl focus on when going to post-secondary. Does he seriously expect people to make over $20/hour without a post-secondary education, with the exception of trades? (I know you can get a good salary without post-secondary but this is increasingly hard to do in the 2010s) I guess we all should be making minimum wage for the rest of our lives and focus on pioneering!
    Including the musical interlude, Watchtower summary, Canada stats, and Losch's talk, the program was 2h 40m..
    ----------
     
  4. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Jehovahs witnesses and higher education   
    ON COMPETENT ADVICE:
    it is up to EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brother and Sister to review in their own mind how COMPETENT this advice was .... because it has not changed ...
    Taking sound, reality based advice will, barring chance and unforeseen circumstances, make your life better, happier, EASIER, and more fulfilling. Most of the REAL PROBLEMS I have had in my life have been caused by being poor, and constantly STRUGGLING to keep gainfully employed.
    Gainfully employed in THIS day and age is not the same as in the time of John the Baptist, where you could dress in rags, live in a hole in the ground, and eat locusts (YUM!), and die of exhaustion, deprivation, starvation ( No, I'm FASTING! ...uh... yeah... uh... that's it .. uh "fasting!") .and disease, and a LONG life for the average genetically disposed person was around age 34 and you were full of infection of every sort, and your teeth had rotted out of you head.  You walked everywhere, and died on the side of the road from exposure.
    It is up to EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brother and Sister to review in their own mind how COMPETENT this advice was .... because it has not changed.    
    The RESULTS of taking INCOMPETENT ADVICE are completely  indistinguishable from being chained to deliberate, premeditated evil.
    The Three Elders who came and counseled Job for three days did not just sit in the dirt and stare at him for 72 hours ... they were yapping their heads off ... but after three days ... nothing they said was worth recording.
    .



  5. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Space Merchant in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Is there a problem, officer? If one decides to speak what is true? How you worded it out you make it seem the two are one in the same.
  6. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    You can not resist to "correct" people, to giving lessons,  don't you?
    I am very well aware of difference, but rhyme is so,  so good and as "cryptic" message it suits to me well.
    But why trying to, attempt to  explain..... when you know almost everything :)))))))))))))))  
  7. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in Do you have the facts?   
    In view of last weeks WT study "Do you have the facts" (August 2018, page 3) and thanks to @Gone Away for highlighting the following reports, I thought I would put this in a separate and concise topic to show an actual and recent example of misinformation.
    NEWS REPORT: (I cut it a little short because the article went on about the ban in general. You van read the whole thing here: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/five-jehovah-s-witnesses-detained-in-russia-investigators-10812938)
    MOSCOW: Five Jehovah's Witnesses have been detained in Russia and charged with possessing weapons and running an extremist group, investigators said Wednesday (Oct 10, 2018), in the latest case targeting the banned religious movement.
    They were arrested in the Kirov region northeast of Moscow, where authorities said they found two grenades and a landmine in searches of their homes.
    The Jehovah's Witnesses are a Christian denomination that originated in the United States in the late 19th century.
    The Russian authorities consider the movement a totalitarian sect and last year the country's supreme court banned the Jehovah's Witnesses from operating in Russia.
    "They had been conducting meetings and called on others to join their organisation," Yevgenia Vorozhtsova, a spokeswoman for regional investigators, said.
    She said officials were investigating how the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses had obtained the ammunition, but declined to provide further details.
    Yaroslav Sivulskiy, a member of the European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses, said it was the first time the Russian authorities had accused members of the movement of possessing ammunition.
    "We were shocked," he said from the Latvian capital Riga. "It is both funny and strange. Why mines?"
    One of those detained was a Polish national residing in Russia, he said.
     
    THE FACTS: (here I took the liberty of slightly adjusting the translation by Google, so it made more sense)
    On October 9, 2018, in the city of Kirov, during a search of the house of retired Vladimir Bogomolov, a collector of artifacts from the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945), investigators seized fragments of obviously unusable rusty shells. The man was searched because his 69-year-old spouse (the only one of her entire family) professes the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The woman does not share her husband's fascination with antiques. Thus, the report that the ammunition was seized allegedly from Jehovah's Witnesses is not true.
    Jehovah's Witnesses do not take weapons for conscience reasons. For this position they appeared before tribunals of different countries and went to concentration camps. They will be grateful to the media for clarifying the misunderstanding .
    Vladimir Bogomolov, from whom the relics were confiscated, was in the past an active participant in a search movement (aimed at burying the remains of the soldiers who died in World War II), he was the brigadier of the search party. The activities of his squad were written about in newspapers. On October 9, 2018, upon the discovery of the artifacts, a criminal case on the illegal possession of weapons was instituted, it was allocated in a separate proceeding. The items were sent for examination.
     Source: https://jw-russia.org/news
     
     
  8. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Space Merchant in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Comma and Coma are 2 different things, Srecko.
    Other than that I tend to over use commas to keep things separate. Somewhat of a habit.
  9. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Sometimes I use Audio punctuation (spoink!)
    Especially in sentences (cank!) depending on the structure (cank!) where commas are necessary (spoink!)
  10. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    I like the way Paul put it   
     
    "However, we do use wisdom to speak to those who are mature. It is a wisdom that doesn’t belong to this world or to the rulers of this world who are in power today and gone tomorrow. 7 We speak about the mystery of God’s wisdom. It is a wisdom that has been hidden, which God had planned for our glory before the world began. 8 Not one of the rulers of this world has known it. If they had, they wouldn’t have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as Scripture says:
    “No eye has seen,
        no ear has heard,
            and no mind has imagined
                the things that God has prepared
                    for those who love him.”
    10 God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches everything, especially the deep things of God.  After all, who knows everything about a person except that person’s own spirit? In the same way, no one has known everything about God except God’s Spirit.  Now, we didn’t receive the spirit that belongs to the world. Instead, we received the Spirit who comes from God so that we could know the things which God has freely given us.  We don’t speak about these things using teachings that are based on intellectual arguments like people do. Instead, we use the Spirit’s teachings. We explain spiritual things to those who have the Spirit.
    14 A person who isn’t spiritual doesn’t accept the teachings of God’s Spirit. He thinks they’re nonsense. He can’t understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.  Spiritual people evaluate everything but are subject to no one’s evaluation.
    16 “Who has known the mind of the Lord
        so that he can teach him?”
    However, we have the mind of Christ."  1 Cor 2:6-16
     
     
  11. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    I am even more totally convinced that you keep a tally of every item said by every individual here, which grates against your beliefs.  I will only comment on one thing that you have tallied up against me.
    Do you remember which angel/messengers I was talking about?  They are the sealed anointed ones - the 12 apostles, and all anointed since, whose names are written in the book of life.  Luke 10:20
    You wouldn’t call Jesus a hybrid, would you?
    But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him. 7 But go, tell His disciples—and Peter—that He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him, as He said to you.”  Mark 16:6,7
    “Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons”  Mark 16:9
    After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.  Mark 16:12,13
     “When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 4But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.”  Luke 24:40-43
    “But when the morning had now come, Jesus stood on the shore; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. 5 Then Jesus said to them, “Children, have you any food?”  John 21:4,5
    Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”  Acts 1:9-11
    If you say no, then why would you mockingly call the new creation, the faithful and sealed sons of God, who are adjoined to him, hybrids,  because they will have the ability to appear as both human and spirit?   2 Cor 5:17; Rom 8:14; 6:4;  John 1:51
    As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.   And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.”  1 Cor 15:48,49
    It is such a grave lie that Watchtower has fostered by not allowing JWs to perceive that Jesus and the "144,000" will walk with all of God's children on the earth,  teaching, administering and guiding mankind in the Kingdom.  Rev 21:2; Heb 1:6
     
     
     
     
  12. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Srecko  i have to thank you for your research concerning the lies that the GB of the JW Org used concerning the 7000 year creative days. 
    Even if a person doesn't want to include the Bible Students, your quotes from 1951 to 1987 proves that the GB are not the Faithful and Discreet slave class that they pretend to be.
    Where is the direction from Our Heavenly Father to the GB ?  It does not exist. The GB are not who they pretend to be. 
    Each creative day 7,000 years ?  Um, please remember, God does not lie, nor does He give false information. 
  13. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Absolutely agree JTR. That is why i put Awake questions. Questions are "tailored" in a way to lead to the desired answers with the help of the chosen interlocutor. 
  14. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    AWAKE!: WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT LIFE PROVIDES EVIDENCE OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN?
    AWAKE!: WHY IN YOUR OPINION DO THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES DISAGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSIONS REGARDING INTELLIGENT DESIGN?
    AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO CRITICS WHO CLAIM THAT ACCEPTING THE IDEA OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN PROMOTES IGNORANCE?
    AWAKE!: HAS SCIENCE PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT EVOLUTION, BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION, COULD HAVE CREATED THE COMPLEX MOLECULAR MACHINES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT?
    AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE WHO POINT TO FEATURES OF PLANTS OR ANIMALS THAT THEY CLAIM ARE POORLY DESIGNED?
    They are opportunist. :)))
    ... a person who takes advantage of opportunities as and when they arise, regardless of planning or principle. someone who tries to get power or an advantage in every situation. using a situation to get power or an advantage (a condition giving a greater chance of success)
  15. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jack Ryan in Secret documents from Warwick show JW's do everything to avoid reporting child abuse to the police   
    Item about child sexual abuse within community of Jehovah's Witnesses, RTL Nieuws (Netherlands), October 6th, 2018 English subtitles included
     
  16. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    I'll not go into my use of WT quotes, as many already have done so since I've been back here.  I doubt Watchtower consistently asks for the right to publish other's material in their magazines.  They also, purposefully fail to present all the "facts" in a quote they are using.  https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/70709-do-you-really-have-the-facts/?tab=comments#comment-109244
    I very much believe it does matter.  In the case of a victim of child abuse, keeping it quiet has kept pedophiles, hidden. If a pedophile is disfellowshipped without being reported to law enforcement, their hidden crime is kept secret, not only from the congregation but from the public at large.  If the pedophile remains in the congregation with the sin kept secret, and the victim ultimately leaves, all sorts of gossip arises and condemns the person leaving.   Keeping an individual’s reason for leaving, quiet, has been an effective way to hide Watchtower’s sins and shift blame onto the one leaving.   Every case of child abuse against WT that makes headlines has the organization’s standard pat answer, ”we abhor child abuse”.  Surely, I am not the only one who is finding this phrase not only redundant but empty of any compassion or promise of comfort.  
    I am not sure if you are a JW or a relative of one, but I write this to all JWs, since the essence of your words is a common belief among them. 
     It does matter, since Jesus said that this rejection of those who love him would happen in the last days.Matt 5:11,12; Luke 12:11,12,51-53; John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:1,2,5-8    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+5%3A11%2C12%3B+Luke+12%3A11%2C12%2C51-53%3B+John+16%3A2%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3%2C7%3B+13%3A1%2C2%2C5-8++&version=NKJV
    “Blessed are you when men hate you,
    And when they exclude you,
    And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, “apostate”
    For the Son of Man’s sake.”  Luke 6:22
    It’s possible many JWs don’t realize this is a reason for disfellowshipping.  When the organization, its prophetic dates, doctrines and the GB is rejected, bringing one to rely purely on Christ and the Father, this gives favorable ground for disfellowshipping on the basis of “apostasy”. 
    I believe the presence of the Watchtower and it’s ruling GB, fulfills prophecy, but not as they believe.  There are plenty of dark “restrictions” set in place to make a person hesitant to leave.  Free will and choice can be clouded by threats, which the organization is very good at accomplishing…
     “Yes, Jehovah will disfellowship those who become lawless, turn to darkness and set up idols. He will expel such persons from his organization. If you want to be of the Lord’s organization, keep clean of the Devil’s world. If you do not want to, then get out of it. Those who are impure, immoral, are not spiritually fit for God’s organization. If such lukewarm compromisers or apostates do not voluntarily get out of his organization, then under his direction the organization itself will put them out.”  Wt 52/3/1
    “If you are one who has dedicated himself to God, you will seek to obey him and not seek ways to get around his counsel and his laws. You will not seek for loopholes through which you can squirm to avoid some penalizing sanctions from his organization. If you want Jehovah’s blessing and his promised gifts, you must have a keen desire to do what is right in his eyes.”  Wt 65/7/15
    …as well as promising that life can only be obtained through “Jehovah’s organization”. 
    “It is necessary to stick close to the Lord and his organization to be safe”.  Wt 50/2/15
     “We want to escape all these things that will come upon the world. We want to stand before the Son of man, having his approval. To this end there is a third thing we can do: Stick unbreakably to Jehovah’s theocratic organization. We need to associate unreservedly with that organization and share in its activities. In this way we will unmistakably identify ourselves as Christians who are on the watch.” Wt 95/5/1
    We will be impelled to serve Jehovah loyally with his organization if we remember that there is nowhere else to go for life eternal. Wt 92/11/15
    “Cooperation with the organization that the “slave” uses is vital if we are to obtain Jehovah’s blessing.” Km 6/95
    Need I go on? The Bible may “state free will and choice”, but the Watchtower projects an ugly consequence when one does engage free will.  I have not read in the scriptures where allegiance to a “society”/”organization”/corporation immersed in the finances of the world, which are necessary for its survival, (otherwise JWs would not be hounded relentlessly to donate), is spoken as the way to obtain eternal life. 
    This is what I do see:
    My soul, wait silently for God alone,
    For my expectation is from Him.
    6 He only is my rock and my salvation;
    He is my defense; (my high place, high fort, high tower, refuge)
    I shall not be moved.
    7 In God is my salvation and my glory;
    The rock of my strength,
    And my refuge, is in God.”  Ps 62:5-7
    This, I also see, and I direct its message to the Watchtower organization and its leaders:
    This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:11,12
    Watchtower leaders call the Wild Beast of Revelation 13:1, “Satan’s organization”. When referring to 2 Thess 2:3,7-10, they say:
    “From those words it is evident that the antichrist, the apostate man of lawlessness, “the mystery of this lawlessness,” is Satan’s masterpiece in the form of an organization. It is an imitation of organized Christianity and so an opposer of it. Wt 81/5/1 pg 12-16   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thess+2%3A3%2C7-10&version=CSB
    Intentionally, verse 4 was left out, which tells of the Man of Lawlessness “sitting”/ruling in the Temple of God.  Do today’s JWs know that the anointed ones are the Temple of God?   Mal 2:7; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22; Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3,7    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mal+2%3A7%3B+Isa+43%3A10%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+2+Cor+6%3A16%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22%3B+Matt+24%3A15%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3%2C7+++&version=NKJV
    Who has been given authority to determine the spiritual standing of the anointed, and anyone?  Elders, who absolutely rule over all in the congregations. Rom 14:4  Should elders, who are spiritually “uncircumcised” replace God’s appointed  “circumcised” priesthood, and  “stand over” (Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1,2) or rule the Temple of God? Rom 2:28,29; Heb 8:10  Not according to scriptures concerning the early priesthood.  God’s decrees are consistent, and His decrees are Truth.   The transgressions of the Man of Lawlessness are based on these decrees. Num 18:7;2 Chron 23:7; Eze 44:6-9; Heb 8:5  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+14%3A4%3B+Matt+24%3A15%3B+Rev+11%3A1%2C2%3B+Rom+2%3A28%2C29%3B+Heb+8%3A10+%3BNum+18%3A7%3B2+Chron+23%3A7%3B+Eze+44%3A6-9%3B+Heb+8%3A5&version=NKJV
    Do JWs realize that Revelation’s Wild Beast/organization blasphemes God’s Temple and conquers it’s “living stones” at the time of the end? Their personal “daily sacrifices” as God’s priests (not regurgitated “food” from a wicked slave) are eliminated. Dan 7:7,23-25;8:11,12; 9:27;Rev 13:6,7,16,17  Do you see this being accomplished by the United Nations or the religions of Christendom? Do you believe it will?  Does the UN hold a personal file on all of the anointed ones in the organization, ready to pounce and destroy them?  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+7%3A7%2C23-25%3B8%3A11%2C12%3B+9%3A27%3BRev+13%3A6%2C7%2C16%2C17&version=NKJV
    When speaking about this Wild Beast, WT said,
    “To have the mark of this beast upon one’s forehead or hands means that one is giving support to Satan’s organization, mentally or physically, thereby violating the command to “keep oneself without spot from the world.” (Jas. 1:27) Such friendship with the world, however, means enmity with God.”  w62 12/1 pp. 729-730
    A quote from the ‘81/5/1 WT referencing Russell’s words of 1884:
    “We belong to NO earthly organization; hence, if you should name the entire list of sects, we should answer, No, to each and to all. We adhere only to the heavenly organization —‘whose names are written in heaven.’ (Heb. 12:23; Luke 10:20.) All the saints now living, or that have lived during this age, belonged to OUR CHURCH ORGANIZATION: such are all ONE Church, and there is NO OTHER recognized by the Lord. Hence any earthly organization which in the least interferes with this union of saints is contrary to the teachings of Scripture and opposed to the Lord’s will —‘that they may be ONE.’ (John 17:11.)”  Wt 81/5/1 pg 12-16
    The true “union of saints”, spiritual “Israel”, would be the called anointed Body of Christ. Rom 1:7; Eph 4:11,12; 1 Cor 12:12-14 The “church” in scripture is this Body.  Matt 16:18; Col 1:18; Heb 12:23; Rev 1:20  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+1%3A7%3B+Eph+4%3A11%2C12%3B+1+Cor+12%3A12-14%3B+Matt+16%3A18%3B+Col+1%3A18%3B+Heb+12%3A23%3B+Rev+1%3A20++&version=NKJV
    What has happened over the years during the growth of what is now the Watchtower organization?  What position do the “saints” of today now take?  Russel’s short term view of  organization changed to include not only “Israel”, but the majority of who are not anointed.   No longer do Russel’s words matter concerning the union of Christ’s Body. In fact, in order to preserve the “unity” of “Jehovah’s organization”, the saints “do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible.”  (wt 16/1 pp 20-26) 
    Wouldn’t you say that your organization now “interferes” with the union of saints, subjecting the members of the Body of Christ to be severed from each other? 1 Cor 12:20-26,11  Wouldn’t you agree that the spiritual and personal freedom has been removed from those who are anointed? 1 Cor 7:23; Rom 6:16; Gal 1:10; Rev 13:7,10; Joel 1:6,7; 9:5,10   The organization employs psychological manipulation, backed by evil intentions.  2 Cor 11:20; Col 2:8; Rev 13:9,10; 12:17,15; 20:7,8; 17:14   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+12%3A20-26%2C11%3B++1+Cor+7%3A23%3B+Rom+6%3A16%3B+Gal+1%3A10%3B+Rev+13%3A7%2C10%3B+Joel+1%3A6%2C7%3B+9%3A5%2C10%3B+2+Cor+11%3A20%3B+Col+2%3A8%3B+Rev+13%3A9%2C10%3B+12%3A17%2C15%3B+20%3A7%2C8%3B+17%3A14++&version=NKJV    
    This is your history.  I hope you will make the effort to sort through, and unravel Watchtower’s contradictions. 
    Compare WT’s quote about the mark of the Beast with this quote:
     “Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by water baptism? If so, that is wonderful! Recall that on your baptism day, before eyewitnesses, you were asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you (mark you) as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization.” Your affirmative answers served as a public declaration of your unreserved dedication and showed that you were qualified for baptism as an ordained minister of Jehovah. You must have made Jehovah very happy!  Wt 17/4
    “Spirit-directed”:  Do you know that the Wild Beast of Rev. 13:1 receives “spirit” from the Beast “with two horns”– Rev 13:11.  This Beast from the earth is a composite false prophet that directs the Wild Beast/organization to spiritually “kill”, or cut off,  all who reject its MARK.    Why two horns? “Two witnesses” are the basis for truth. Matt 18:16 Horns represent kings and these “two” kings appear to belong to Christ, speaking the truth in Christ.  Rev 1:4,5; (Rev 17:12) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+13%3A11%3B+Matt+18%3A16%3B+Rev+1%3A4%2C5%3B+%3B+17%3A12&version=NKJV
    However, the “Beast from the Earth” does not stand for Christ’s prophetic “truth”, because he speaks in the tongue of his father, Satan. Rev 13:11; 1 Tim 4:1; Dan 11:27; Rev 16:13,14  The Beast/false prophet has succumbed to Satan’s offers – power, dominance over the “saints” and the “nations”, while accumulating riches of the world. Luke 4:6; Rev 10:11; 17:15; 13:7 It is a dream not that far off from what “Nimrod the evil” had in mind, the architect and builder of Babylon.  Gen 10:9,10; Zech 5:5-11  It was in this place, “Shinar”, where the people said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” Gen 11:4  Or, like the Freemasons and their hierarchy of “brotherly love”, who coincidentally ascribe to Nimrod as the founder of Masonry.  Job 20:4-9   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+13%3A11%3B+1+Tim+4%3A1%3B+Dan+11%3A27%3B+Rev+16%3A13%2C14%3B++Luke+4%3A6%3B+Rev+10%3A11%3B+17%3A15%3B+13%3A7%3B+Gen+10%3A9%2C10%3B+Zech+5%3A5-11%3B+Gen+11%3A4%3B+Job+20%3A4-9++&version=NKJV
    This Beast/false prophet and its successive rule, is comprised of Harlot daughters of “Babylon the Great” – the covenant (promise, agreement) of death.  Matt 4:8,9; Isa 28:15,18;Ezek 16:44; Rev 17:3-6  Not all “virgins” of Christ remain under the “New Covenant” promise of life.  Gal 4:26; Matt 25:1-13; 2 Cor 11:2-4; 1 Cor 10:12; 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8:10; Rev 18:3  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+4%3A8%2C9%3B+Isa+28%3A15%2C18%3BEzek+16%3A44%3B+Rev+17%3A3-6+%3B+Gal+4%3A26%3B+Matt+25%3A1-13%3B+2+Cor+11%3A2-4%3B+1+Cor+10%3A12%3B+2+Pet+3%3A17%3B+Rev+8%3A10%3B+Rev+18%3A3++&version=NKJV
    It (false prophet) deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs that it is permitted to perform in the presence of the beast (remember, it is an organization), telling those who live on the earth to make an image of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 It was permitted to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.”  Rev 13:14,15
    It is a “spirit-directed” image, projecting the impression that it is blessed by Holy Spirit ,and under Christ’s lead. 
    WT’s emphasis on “organization” has led JWs away from the true Temple and ultimately, Christ himself.  They preach a “different Jesus”, signifying the nature behind the symbolic battle of Armageddon – distinguishing the counterfeit from the genuine, the lie from the truth. Joel 3:14  Christ and his victorious ones who have stood up to Satan’s Beasts, are symbolically “killed”, but who come “alive” through their obedience and testimony of Christ.  Rev 12:17; 11:3,7,11; 12:10,11; 3:12  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joel+3%3A14%3B+Rev+12%3A17%3B+11%3A3%2C7%2C11%3B+12%3A10%2C11%3B+3%3A12+&version=NKJV
    IF the Watchtower sided fully with our High Priest, Christ, it would uphold Christ’s priesthood and not a “Gentile” elder body.  But, that rich identity is long buried away in Watchtower literature.  If recognition of the Temple briefly surfaces, the elder rule will be overly highlighted to continually blind JWs by its counterfeit light.  Dan 9:27  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+9%3A27&version=NKJV
    Satan’s kettle of lies is like a simmering stew, where new ingredients are slowly added until he feels he’s met his goal. And he has. Rev 16:13,14 The Temple “stones” have been “trampled” by “Gentiles”. Dan 12:7;8:11,12; 2 Thess 2:3,4   Instead of anointed priests offering their “daily sacrifice” of praise under the direction of Holy Spirit, they have given in to the oppressive influence of another Master, the GB and its partners.  Matt 24:48-51  JWs accept elder appointments made by men very willingly; yet, these elders are the exact “Gentiles” who effectively tread on the Temple of God.  Elders, please, I hope you seriously analyze the power you have falsely been given, to rule over God’s appointed priests! You, as a collective group ARE the “disgusting thing” standing in the holy place! Matt 24:15  I do hope you open your eyes!  Num 16:3-7,10,11,18,20,21,35,40; Jer 7:30;6:15   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+16%3A13%2C14%3B+Dan+12%3A7%3B8%3A11%2C12%3B+2+Thess+2%3A3%2C4%3B+Matt+24%3A48-51%2C15%3B++Num+16%3A3-7%2C10%2C11%2C18%2C20%2C21%2C35%2C40%3B+Jer+7%3A30%3B6%3A15++&version=NKJV
    Again, the WT organization, called “earthly Zion” is not the Body of Christ.  The Body is comprised of “living stones”; a spiritual house built through the sealing of all faithful anointed ones over time, with the apostles and prophets as its foundation. It is the true Zion, built on the true cornerstone. Eph 2:20-22  This Body, as the Bride of Christ, has a vital purpose, to teach and support God’s children in the Kingdom. Their existence and their trials in combatting Satan’s demand to test each one as “wheat” using his end time “Beasts”, ultimately brings them to the goal of eternal life in God’s Kingdom only if they succeed in personally casting down Satan and his deceptions. Luke 22:31 They are then ready to provide all the goodness that God and Jesus have in store for future children. Once in the Kingdom they will serve not only the Father and Jesus but the entire family of God’s children.  Mal 3:1-4; 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10; Ps 1:1-3; Rev 3:12;21:2; 22:2,17    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22%3A31%3B+Mal+2%3A7%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B+Rev+5%3A9%2C10%3B+Ps+1%3A1-3%3B+Rev+3%3A12%3B21%3A2%3B+22%3A2%2C17+&version=NKJV
    Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the Lord’s doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes’?  Matt 21:42
    He is not the cornerstone of a corporation – the very man who said who spoke the words in Matt 6:19,20; 16:26  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A19%2C20%3B+16%3A26&version=NKJV
    WHO, then, is the cornerstone of the Watchtower, the awesome earthly corporation that is “marvelous” in the eyes of JWs?  Presently, it is the GB members who have assumed the role of Master; when Christ’s own priesthood is told to remain apart from each other, be “humble” and clothe themselves with anonymity.  If they were to gather and study together, it would propose a threat to the Wicked Slave!  Those of the woman covenant who desire to join their Master, Christ and be “in union” with the Body leave the WT, speaking truth, and are disfellowshipped for doing so. Rev 11:1-3,7; 12:6
    I am at a loss to explain what affliction is experienced behind that last sentence.  It isn't easy, to say the least, since Satan is unrelenting in giving up one of “the remaining ones of the woman’s seed.” However, by leaving the oppression and lies behind, a door is opened that no one can shut.  Rev 3:8; Jer 50:33,34; 29:10-14  Sata has one last chance to deceive the remnant “kings” who are to be found refined, cleansed and blameless before the Kingdom arrives. Rev 3:18  Do you really think Satan’s act of deception would be so obvious as the UN, which the Watchtower itself utilizes when needed?  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+3%3A8%3B+Jer+50%3A33%2C34%3B+29%3A10-14++&version=NKJV
     As the WT said, the Beast of Rev 13:1 is Satan’s “masterpiece”, his greatest captivating delusion,  in the form of an organization.  2 Thess 2:9-12
    Did you know that the Watchtower admits that “organization” is a relatively new term spearheaded in the 1920’s?  They say it isn’t a word found in the Bible.
     “The word “organization” does not appear in the Bible, and back in the 1920’s, ‘God’s organization’ was a new expression.” Wt 98/9/1
    “In the early 1920’s, during morning worship, a member of the Society’s editorial staff used the expression ‘God’s organization.’ This so stimulated their thinking that by 1925 the brothers had come to see that there are two distinct and opposing organizations, Jehovah’s and Satan’s. —w85 3/15 p. 10.
    This is quite revealing, when considering Russell’s words stating no other organization except the unity of the saints is recognized by the Father and Christ. John 2:19-21; 1 Cor 3:11; Eph 2:20; 1 Cor 12:28  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A19-21%3B+1+Cor+3%3A11%3B+Eph+2%3A20%3B+1+Cor+12%3A28&version=NKJV
    ·       Satan’s visible “mountainlike organization” has risen successfully, making remarkable process with its earthly investments around the world.  Although lately, this may be coming to a halt as it faces the reality of mishandling child abuse.    It requires its “worshippers” to bear its mark in obedience, and service.  Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4, 16  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+1%3A25%3B+Rev+13%3A4%2C+16&version=NKJV
    ·       The true “organization” built on Christ by the Father is reaching completion, with each faithful living stone, cleansed of idolatry to a counterfeit Zion and its lies, bearing the mark of the true God. It is a mountain that is not visible in the earthly sense, but is reflected in the hearts of the chosen faithful anointed, who speak “truth”. Rev 3:17-20; 16:15; Matt 24:15,16; Zech 4:7-10; Rev 3:12  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+3%3A17-20%3B+16%3A15%3B+Matt+24%3A15%2C16%3B+Zech+4%3A7-10%3B+Rev+3%3A12&version=NKJV
    Only one will exist in the Kingdom of God.   Let me put it this way:
    Soon the Devil and his whole demonic organization will be abyssed because of not giving exclusive devotion to the Sovereign Ruler of the universe, Jehovah. w56 1/1 pp. 15-2
    With a correction:  Satan, his demons, the Beast he has built, and its Harlot/false prophet, will be thrown into the Lake of fire.  Rev 19:19,20; 20:7-10  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+19%3A19%2C20%3B+20%3A7-10&version=NKJV
    It is imperative that all JWs know how anointed ones and companions who love Christ and the Father leave the WT, and are thrown out of the “synagogue”; because indeed, it fulfills prophesy. John 16:2 It is prophesy that affects every JW who resides within the organizatoin, if they choose to remain inside.
    In Rev 18:4-8, who are “my people”? The scriptures tell us: Isa 43:10; 44:8; 1 Pet 2:4-10  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+16%3A2%3B+Isa+43%3A10%3B+44%3A8%3B+1+Pet+2%3A4-10++&version=NKJV
    “One of your people, claiming to be a prophet or to have prophetic dreams, may predict a miraculous sign or an amazing thing. (“this so stimulated their thinking”)  2 What he predicts may even take place. But don’t listen to that prophet or dreamer if he says, “Let’s worship and serve other gods.” (Those gods may be gods you’ve never heard of.) (“a new expression”)
    3 The Lord your God is testing you to find out if you really love Him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Worship the Lord your God, fear him, obey His commands, listen to what He says, serve Him, and be loyal to Him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death because he preached rebellion (2 Thess 2:3,4) against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and freed you from slavery. He was trying to lead you away from following the directions the Lord your God gave you. You must get rid of this evil.” Deut 13:1-5
    “The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned.” 2 Thess 2:9-12
    Today, the Beast from the Earth/false prophet has directed the Wild Beast/Man of Lawlessness   to replace the “true” gods with “other gods”, who are the image of a counterfeit Zion.   Ps 82:6; John 10:35; Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 8:5; 2 Cor 3:18;Isa 14:13,14; Dan 11:36; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:6,7      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=.+++Ps+82%3A6%3B+John+10%3A35%3B+Rom+8%3A14%3B+1+Cor+8%3A5%3B+2+Cor+3%3A18%3BIsa+14%3A13%2C14%3B+Dan+11%3A36%3B+2+Thess+2%3A3%2C4%3B+Rev+13%3A6%2C7++++++&version=NKJV
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  17. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    This is fantastic stuff. Kingdom Ministry May 1974. 
    Lovely.      Last days...  People sold their houses because they were told Armageddon would be 1975. 
    Yes i know it doesn't say it in exact words, but those that were there know it was told that way. 
  18. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Srecko didn't waste his time, his research was good. 
    You on the other hand are a blind person that does not want to see. 
  19. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    quotes in continue shows how WT does not know what Genesis talking about:   
    Zions Watchtower Dec 1881 The Creative Week
    “If the seventh period of creation in which the Father rested is seven thousand years long – as shown above – so are the other six periods; and so we have seven times seven thousand years…”
    The Watchtower 1/1/1951 p. 27 The Christian’s Sabbath
    7,000 years for each of the creative days as well as the rest day is consistent with the Scriptures.
    The Watchtower 8/1/1954 p. 478 The Purpose of Your Witnessing
    Each creative day was 7,000 years in length. See “New Heavens and a New Earth”, pages 40-43.
    Awake! 11/8/1982 pp. 6-9 Science and the Bible
    The Bible record, together with verifiable history, indicates that the seventh day of that creative week covers a period of 7,000 years. Hence, each of the six preceding “days” would be of the same length.
    The Watchtower 1/1/1987 p. 30 Questions From Readers
    a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days is 7,000 years long.
    The Watchtower 1/1/1993 p. 4 Our Grand Creator and His Works
    In an orderly sequence of six ‘creative days,’ each thousands of years in length
    The Watchtower 4/1/1996 p. 13 par. 10 Praise the King of Eternity!
    Wonderful developments took place on earth during the six creative “days” of Genesis chapter 1, each day covering thousands of years.
    The Watchtower 2/1/2003 p. 4 How to Cultivate a Balanced View of Work
    at the end of the six creative “days,” or long periods of time, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good”
    Awake! 9/22/2003 p. 21 Science Was My Religion
    the creative days lasted aeons
    Awake 1/22/2004 p. 23 Why I Believe the Bible—A Nuclear Scientist Tells His Story
    the creative “days” encompass thousands of years
    The Watchtower 4/1/2004 p. 6 Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark
    God’s creative week comprises seven ‘days,’ or extended time periods
    The Watchtower 1/1/2004 p. 28 par. 3 Highlights From the Book of Genesis—I
    the six creative “days,” or time periods of special creative works
    The Watchtower 2/15/2011 p. 8 par. 10 Holy Spirit—At Work in Creation!
    These are not 24-hour days but are epochs.
    Awake! 11/2011 p. 9 Which Approach Is More Reasonable?
    Each day evidently involved a considerable length of time.
    Awake! 3/2014 p. 5 How Long Did God Take To Create The Universe?
    each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years.
    On other side WT teach  about how long human exist is:
    Timeline
    “In the beginning . . .”
    4026 B.C.E. Adam’s creation
    3096 B.C.E. Death of Adam
    HOW LONG LAST "THE ADAM DAY", 7th day?                                                                                                                                                                                   ARE HUMANKIND NOW IN  THE DAY 7?                                                                                                                                                                                                IF YES, WHEN WILL be the END of that day?                                                                                                                                                                                            BECAUSE IT CAN LAST AS EPOCHS, AS CONSIDERABLE LENGTH OF TIME, AS MORE THEN 7000 YEARS. :))))))    
    Will KINGDOM of 1000 years come before the end of 7th day or after the end? Or inside of 7th day? However JW would count, it can be that they must wait for hundreds or thousands of years or eons of time to see that day. 
    SO, WT have to change all concept and doctrine on few teachings and ideas  that covers these few issues.                                                                                           
  20. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Never waste an opportunity to sucker-punch or blindside someone who is ignorant enough to believe your motives are honest, and your interview will represent what you really think.
    EVERYBODY has an agenda.
    There are no exceptions.

  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    AWAKE!: WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT LIFE PROVIDES EVIDENCE OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN?
    AWAKE!: WHY IN YOUR OPINION DO THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES DISAGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSIONS REGARDING INTELLIGENT DESIGN?
    AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO CRITICS WHO CLAIM THAT ACCEPTING THE IDEA OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN PROMOTES IGNORANCE?
    AWAKE!: HAS SCIENCE PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT EVOLUTION, BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION, COULD HAVE CREATED THE COMPLEX MOLECULAR MACHINES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT?
    AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE WHO POINT TO FEATURES OF PLANTS OR ANIMALS THAT THEY CLAIM ARE POORLY DESIGNED?
    They are opportunist. :)))
    ... a person who takes advantage of opportunities as and when they arise, regardless of planning or principle. someone who tries to get power or an advantage in every situation. using a situation to get power or an advantage (a condition giving a greater chance of success)
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    It's all about credibility.
    How well do you trust a prognosticator who has a 100 plus year
    completely unblemished record  ...of being always WRONG?
     

     
     
    AAAAaaaand .... here are some answers!

  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Do You REALLY Have the Facts?   
     The cartoon sketch below earlier posted by Jack Ryan, prompted me to pull up an old comment I had posted here.  In light of one of the latest Watchtower study articles, “Do You Have the Facts”, I have added a few more thoughts.  Well, probably more than a few.
    Watchtower’s governing body member, Anthony Morris, stated that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  He comments,
    “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; If YOU WANT JEHOVAH’S BLESSING  ON YOU as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, BUT OBEY THE DECISION.
    In clashing contrast, Watchtower’s  “Winning the Battle For Your Mind” states:
    Keep in mind that Satan does not want you to think clearly or reason things out well. Why? Because propaganda “is likely to be most effective,” says one source, “if people . . . are discouraged from thinking critically.” (Media and Society in the Twentieth Century) So never be content passively or blindly to accept what you hear. (Prov. 14:15) Use your God-given thinking abilities and power of reason to make the truth your own. —Prov. 2:10-15;Rom. 12:1, 2.  
    Please DO read their choice of scriptures -  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Prov+14%3A5%3B+Prov.+2%3A10-15%3BRom.+12%3A1%2C+2&version=CSB
    The pendulum has swung the other way with this statement.  Ah, but something important was omitted from the source’s quote, provided by someone on another forum:
    "Therefore, it (propaganda) is likely to be most effective if people do not have access to multiple sources of information, and if they are discouraged from thinking critically.”
    Satan’s ploy to keep us from thinking clearly or reasoning on another’s teachings or findings, is exactly Morris’ intentions when saying, OBEY, NO MATTER WHAT YOU FEEL.  I think it’s clear to every JW why the magazine intentionally left out part of the quote. 
    Watchtower’s recent study article, “Do You Have the Facts?” states –
    “AS TRUE Christians, we need to develop the ability to evaluate information and reach accurate conclusions. (Prov. 3:21-23; 8:4, 5) If we do not cultivate this ability, we will be far more vulnerable to the efforts of Satan and his world to distort our thinking. (Eph. 5:6; Col. 2:8) Of course, only if we have the facts can we reach right conclusions. As Proverbs 18:13 says, “when anyone replies to a matter before he hears the facts, it is foolish and humiliating.”  August, 2018    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Prov.+3%3A21-23%3B+8%3A4%2C+5%3BEph.+5%3A6%3B+Col.+2%3A8%3B&version=CSB
    JWs, where would you find facts to refute the obvious “propaganda” coming from the mouth of Anthony Morris?  The Bible can help us discern what is true and false.
     Jesus said to them, “Be careful! Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees!” The disciples had been discussing among themselves that they had not taken any bread along. 7 The disciples had been discussing among themselves that they had not taken any bread along.
    12 THEN they understood that he didn’t say to watch out for the yeast in bread, but to watch out for the TEACHINGS of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Matt 16:6,7,12
    In this sense, leaven is used in a negative format.  “Metaphor of inveterate mental and moral corruption, viewed in its tendency to infect others.” 
    Morris’ mixed messages that he and seven other men approved to be written in the above WT quotes, show them up as corrupt teachers, speaking “out of both sides of the mouth” and leaving JWs vulnerable to Satan’s lies.  Jer 23:16   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jer+23%3A16&version=CSB
    Morris continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”
    This is utterly impossible, since the Governing Body admitted they are not  inspired.  (Wt. 2017/2 pp. 20-26, par. 12 
    Anthony Morris commented, “the decisions that are made by the faithful slave today, are made collectively.  Not one MAN is making these decisions, these decisions are MADE COLLECTIVELY”. 
    Okay.  They are man-made decisions, made collectively.  Since the word, “decisions” is plural, we can safely say that under the lack of inspiration from Holy Spirit, ALL decisions made by the governing body, and that must be obeyed by JWs, MOST CERTAINLY ARE “A COLLECTION OF MAN-MADE DECISIONS”.  This means the organization is NOT a theocracy ruled by God.  Dan 11:27; Rev 13:11  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+11%3A27%3B+Rev+13%3A11&version=CSB
     “Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God—who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly—and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord,  being double-minded and unstable in all his ways.“  James 1:5-8
    Faith.  Does the GB have faith in the Father?  In Jesus?  Or, do they have faith in themselves and their material assets?  Uninspired men are proclaiming they are the channel used by God who governs the organization from heaven; and yet, it is through the inspiration of Holy Spirit that God would grant the understanding of His will, if our faith was in both the Father and Christ.  Instead, the governing body fully put their faith in what they have built on this earth.  John 14:15-17; Acts 17:29; 1 Pet 1:18,19; Col 2:8   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A15-17%3B+Acts+17%3A29%3B+1+Pet+1%3A18%2C19%3B+Col+2%3A8++&version=CSB
    Is there really another “channel” aside from Holy Spirit? Yes, there is.  
    “For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a DIFFERENT SPIRIT, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!”  2 Cor 11:4
    “A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An EVIL person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”  Luke 6:45
    “As a face is reflected in water,
        so a person is reflected by his heart.” Prov 27:19
    Why are you given conflicting messages by “Jehovah’s organization”? Simply, evil takes the crooked path of confusion. Prov 2:12-15; Isa 19:14,15  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Prov+2%3A12-15%3B+Isa+19%3A14%2C15&version=CSB
    There are two “vines” that produce a “wine” from their fruit. 
    Pearl Doxsey:  From, “The "Garden of Eden" / New Creation / Seven Spirits / Tree of Life / The True Vine”
    Jesus is the true "vine"...those anointed in union with him, are the "branches" (John15:4,5). 
    What they receive from Jesus the "nourishing sap" -Rom.11:17; Rev.22:16), is holy spirit (Rom.5:5). 
    The branches are to express that spirit (Luke6:45), as God (the "vine's cultivator -John15:1) has determined and distributed 
    (1Cor.12:4,11,18,28; 7:7; Eph.4:7; Heb.2:4). 
    Those branches are then expected to produce fruit (John15:2,6; Matt.7:19; Gal.5:22,25; Eph.4:29,12,16; Luke6:45,44)...which include sayings of life... fruit which is filled with that living water/holy spirit sourced in Christ, the true vine (Rev.22:17). Those who eat the fruit of the true vine and it's true branches, will live!
    This is why, not only is Christ the Tree of Life,
    his 144000 also are (Rev.22:1,2; John13:20). 
    The wicked slave produce “wine” made with bad “fruit” from a corrupted, wild vine. Under Satan’s influence, this evil slave is the only access for spiritual food; the GB members who “eat and drink with DRUNKARDS”.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:17
    It is the “helpers” and elder body members who imbibe in, and distribute the Harlot’s wine to all JWs.  Like the Pharisees’ yeast, The Harlot’s wine infects and corrupts the hearts of those who relish it. Jer 2:21; Ps 80:8; Isa 5:2,4; Deut 32:32-34; Rev 17:1-6      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Rev+13%3A17%3BJer.2%3A21%3B++Psalm+80%3A8%3B+Isa.5%3A2%2C4%3B+Deut32%3A32%2C33%2C34%3B+Rev+17%3A1-6&version=CSB
     “Inspiration” means inhalation; a drawing in of breath.  The antonym is “exhalation” – the breath that leaves via the mouth.  Since the governing body admit to not receiving “inspiration” from Holy Spirit , their gospel, the teachings they impart are s,ourced in another spirit and another type of “inspiration”.  It fills the heart and overflows it, and sustains “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.   Jer 11:17; Isa 46:1,2,5-7; Acts 17:29; Rev 13:1,4,11,14-17   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jer+11%3A17%3B+Isa+46%3A1%2C2%2C5-7%3B+Acts+17%3A29%3B+Rev+13%3A1%2C4%2C11%2C14-17&version=CSB
    “He (composite false prophet/Beast with two horns) was permitted to give a spirit (or give breath) to the image of the beast (organization), so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.”  Rev 13:15 (John 20:22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20:22&version=CSB )
    The Greek word for “image” can be interpreted as, “an image of the things (the heavenly things)”, and comes from the root, “eiko”, meaning to “to resemble – be like”.  An image is a reflection of the real thing.  God’s anointed priesthood reflect Heavenly Zion, where God and Christ dwell within the anointed heart. Gen 1:26; Rom 8:29; 2 Cor 3:18; Matt 5:48; 1 John 3:2; John 14:23; John 12:15; Heb 12:22; Rev 14:1    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen+1%3A26%3B+Rom+8%3A29%3B+2+Cor+3%3A18%3B+Matt+5%3A48%3B+1+John+3%3A2%3B+John+14%3A23%3B+John+12%3A15%3B+Heb+12%3A22%3B+Rev+14%3A1++&version=CSB
    It is His only “organization” built on the Body of Christ. John 2:19-21; Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 2 Cor 6:16; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A19-21%3B+Mal+2%3A7%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B+2+Cor+6%3A16%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22&version=CSB
    In contrast, the image of the Beast is the elder body, which reflects “Jehovah’s mountainlike organization”, and is
    A FALSE ZION - AN IDOL.  Deut 5:8; Rom 1:25  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut+5%3A8%3B+Rom+1%3A25&version=CSB
     As the Man of Lawlessness, it publicizes “that he himself is God”. Hab 2:18; Isa 14:13,14; Zech 4:7; Rev 8:8   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hab+2%3A18%3B+Isa+14%3A13%2C14%3B+Zech+4%3A7%3B+Rev+8%3A8&version=CSB
    “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy (rebellion) comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary,(Temple) publicizing that he himself is God.” 2 Thess 2:3,4   
    (Ps 82:6; John 10:34,36; Gal 3:25,26)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ps+82%3A6%3B+John+10%3A34%2C36%3B+Gal+3%3A25%2C26&version=CSB
    WHO has been given authority to disfellowship those who reject the organization?  WHAT IDENTITY “sits in God’s Temple”, ruling over the Temple anointed priests? Undoubtedly, it is the GB’s army, the elders “drunk” on the false prophet/Harlot’s wine.  Matt 24:48-51; Joel 1:5-7; Rev 14:8  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Joel+1%3A5-7%3B+Rev+14%3A8++&version=CSB
    I hope you can see that the elder body has supplanted God’s Temple, becoming the blasphemous image of an IDOL – a counterfeit ZION.
     “A mouth was given to him to speak boasts and blasphemies. He was also given authority to act (wage war/to rule)  for 42 months. 6 He began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.”  Rev 13:5,6
    God’s faithful messengers/witnesses receive inspiration from Holy Spirit. Within the anointed Body, it is what teaches faithful priests. Mal 2:7; 1 John 2:20,27; John 14:26  There is no intermediator; no consulting in an interior room, behind closed doors, or voting on a “decree”. John 16:12-14; Matt 10:20; Luke 12:12; Matt 24:23-27   Instead, members of one anointed Body, built on the apostles and prophets work under one Spirit to “build each other up” in Truth. 1 Cor 6:17; 12:7,11,13; 1 Thess 5:11  They are like the “multiple sources” that the wicked slave encourages you to avoid. 2 Chron 15:3; Mal 2:7; John 13:20 They are “thrown out of the congregation”, spiritually “killed” for speaking the truth that resides in their heart. Luke 12:11,12; John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mal+2%3A7%3B+1+John+2%3A20%2C27%3B+John+14%3A26%3B++John+16%3A12-14%3B+Matt+10%3A20%3B+Luke+12%3A12%3B+Matt+24%3A23-27%3B+1+Cor+6%3A17%3B+12%3A7%2C11%2C13%3B+2+Chron+15%3A3%3B+Mal+2%3A7%3B+John+13%3A20%3B+Luke+12%3A11%2C12%3B+John+16%3A2%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3%2C7++&version=CSB
    The uninspired GB must rely on voting to pass their decrees, which all JWs must obey, even if their decrees are later considered errors in direction. Joel 1:18;   The bottom line is, there is no leeway for JWs to cultivate their God-given thinking ability to “know the facts”.  But you already know this, JWs. No matter what facts that YOU may arrive at, they mean nothing if they are not the governing body’s “facts”.  All other facts, as well as all other teachings by anointed ones are considered “poor quality”.  Your well-regulated spiritual commerce was predicted to occur in these last days.  Ezek 4:10-13;Amos 8:11; Rev.6:5,6; 13:16,17    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezek+4%3A10-13%3BAmos+8%3A11%3B+Rev.6%3A5%2C6%3B+13%3A16%2C17+&version=CSB
     “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations: “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.  Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23  
    Could the scriptures be any clearer?  JWs are part of the world by engaging in the deceptive teachings and fleshly rules of men.  Their “wisdom” is sourced in another spirit, another vine than Christ.  They have “gone out” to pursue all that Satan’s world offers, including power and dominance over God’s people.  Isa 51:23; James 3:15  On the other hand, the faithful anointed who have “died” at the hands of the wicked slave’s drunkards, are receiving “rain in due season”.  I implore JWs, speak out bravely against the double-tongued teachings, and FLEE!  Lev 26:3,4; Isa 55:10,11; James 5:7; Ps 26:4,5; Matt 24:14-16; Isa 2:2,3    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+51%3A23%3B+James+3%3A15%3B+Lev+26%3A3%2C4%3B+Isa+55%3A10%2C11%3B+James+5%3A7%3B+Ps+26%3A4%2C5%3B+Matt+24%3A14-16%3B+Isa+2%3A2%2C3&version=CSB
     “Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.  For who knows a person’s thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 
    Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 
     We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
    But the person without the Spirit (the uninspired governing body) does not receive what comes from the GodÂ’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
    The spiritual person, (one individual) however, can evaluate everything, and yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 1 Cor 2:10-15
     Following and obeying men and their teachings who pass decrees devoid of Holy Spirit, yet hypocritically say these decrees are “governed from heaven”, are blinded by the true source of the deceiving spirit that guides them.  John 8:44; Matt 15:14  By accepting these hypocritical teachings, the hearer is also receiving a “different spirit”, the fruit of a rogue vine filled with “wormwood’s waters”.  Heb 12:15;Rev 8:11  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A44%3B+Matt+15%3A14%3B++Heb+12%3A15%3BRev+8%3A11&version=CSB
    Yet, JWs put up with it – “splendidly”.  2 Cor 11:4   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A44%3B+Matt+15%3A14%3B++Rev+8%3A11%3B+2+Cor+11%3A4&version=CSB
    It isn’t easy standing up for Truth as Christ did, but many leaving the organization are in pursuit of “living water”.  It is contingent on our personal desire and motivation to serve God with a clear mind and a clean heart. Matt 5:10; John 12:25; John 4:10; Ps 26:5; 119:9-11; Jer 17:9,10
    Please, apply Jesus’ words to help you discern good “fruit” spoken by those whom Jesus sends.  He wouldn’t send anyone that provides you with fruit/teachings filled with obvious contradictions, already rotting on the vine and soon to be replaced.      Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:43-45; 1 Pet 3:10; 3 John 11   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+5%3A10%3B+John+12%3A25%3B+John+4%3A10%3B+Ps+26%3A5%3B+119%3A9-11%3B+Jer+17%3A9%2C10%3B+Matt+7%3A15-20%3B+Luke+6%3A43-45%3B+1+Pet+3%3A10%3B+3+John+11+++&version=CSB
    Anthony Morris has made internet headlines with this one deceiving statement:
    "STICK WITH WHAT WE AUTHORIZE, AND YOU WILL BE SAFE."   
     See Jer 23:17; 1 Thess 5:3; Prov 29:25     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Jer+23%3A17%3B+1+Thess+5%3A3%3B+Prov+29%3A25&version=CSB
    He went into all the vicinity of the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, 4 as it is written in the book of the words of the prophet Isaiah:
    A voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
    Prepare the way for the Lord;
    make his paths straight!
    5 Every valley will be filled,
    and every mountain and hill will be made low;
    the crooked will become straight,
    the rough ways smooth,
    6 and everyone will see the salvation of God.
    7 He then said to the crowds who came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore produce fruit consistent with repentance. And don’t start saying to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees. Therefore, every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”  Luke 3:3-9
     Pearl Doxsey, 4 womaninthewilderness:
    "Who Really Is?"
    "Who Are God's People?"
    "What Do Buying and Selling Mean?"
    "Two Witnesses, Elijah and Moses"
     
     
     
     


  24. Confused
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Hankulan Tunani in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    yes, WT say so. But despite that, they not want to accept science counting, numbering  when they said how humans are much, much  older then 6000 years. Animals, plants and other organism are counting in millions of years. So, something looks wrong in WT teaching /Bible interpretations/ how human society, starting, beginning of human,  is just 6000 years+ old.   
  25. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Space Merchant in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    @Srecko Sostar And yet you have not [stick to scripture], hence you didn't stick to scripture when you deem Abraham selfish and  one who is influenced but he devil.
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