Srecko Sostar

It's really my bed time, so I'll be brief and won't get any books out for reference but :-
In the late 1800's they knew Christmas was wrong but they carried on celebrating it until 1926 (?)
In the late 1800's or early 1900's they knew smoking was against Jehovah's will, misuse of their body which they had dedicated to God,  but smoking was allowed until 1970. 70 years of sin in that case. 
In the 1960's / early 1970's they taught that each 'Creative day' was 7,000 years long, and then it was presumed that  the 'rest day' of God would be the same. So it was taught that after 6,000 years of humans living on earth then Armageddon would come. They came up with a date of 1975, and at that time many witnesses sold their houses, businesses and gave up everything expecting Armageddon. But it never happened. My point on this one is not the 1975 date, as we know, that no one knows the day or the hour.   My point is that the Organisation taught that each 'Creative Day' was 7,000 years long. However now they say they don't know how long a Creative day was. 
then we have scriptures :-
How many times have they changed the meaning of the scripture  "This generation will not pass away....  "  At least three times.
How many times have they changed the meaning of the scripture Romans 13 v 1. 
Let every person* be in subjection to the superior authorities,a for there is no authority except by God;b the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.
 It really is my bedtime, I'm very tired so i hope most of this makes sense. 
But i hope these things prove my point and can give you some idea why i do not trust the GB and do not believe they are the faithful and discreet slave. 

Yes John, our "friend" SM are Master in making fog and not to give direct, simple and honest, sincere respond or answer on some very important asking, question that would reveal His real position about JW.
Armageddon is topic here and we can not get SM simple and direct respond, despite the very significant title that Librarian put in question. 

Strecko, i see SM does not answer you question. Such a shame as he thinks he is so clever. 
SM forgets that this is a JW forum, which includes the W/T. 
He seems to know what the JW Org believe but does say if he thinks they are right or wrong, which is what you have asked. 
His only response is to return with a question. Perhaps SM thinks he is copying Jesus. Asking a question in response to a question.
But we know that the Bible Students / the  GB / JW org / Wt, have got it wrong on predictions of Armageddon. 
And in my opinion it will not be so horrific as the Watchtower magazines have shown it. i don't think Jehovah likes causing pain just for the sake of it. I think Jesus and the angels will just kill those not counted as worthy. It could be just take away the gift of life and the person would be dead. That happened, i think, with the husband and wife that lied about how much they sold a field for. Each of them just dropped dead....  i do wonder though if people will be shown, in their minds, what they could have had, and if that will be their pain, the knowing and not getting... 
But i think Armageddon is a long way off yet, even if the GB say it is just around the corner, or closer.
I think everyone has to realise how bad world conditions are, so it has to be really bad everywhere.   Although I know many people are suffering in many places. 
 
 
 

I want to discuss about Armageddon, and yet you run back to the WT which will lead to another spin of responses.
But to be brief, the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Armageddon is the means by which God will fulfill his purpose for the Earth to be populated with happy healthy humans free of sin and death. They teach that the armies of heaven will eradicate all who oppose the Kingdom of God, wiping out all wicked humans on Earth, leaving only righteous mankind.
That being said, Armageddon focused, what do you think it is? In details, no cryptic responses, please - keep it Bible focused.

Many people are "stick" to scripture for many century till now ....and what human got from that?  
Many members in many religions "stick" to scripture ....and ?.... they are all, in fact, in disagree - HOW TO "STICK".
And as same result on issue, You offer Your view how should me, Witness, etc "stick" to scripture according to Your vision.  
Please SM,... call me as you wish, go and explain other people here, who and what i am according to your perception, but wake up yourself from the dream about self picture you build about own role in defending few or more religious systems that leading people in to confrontations and holding them in, keep them in opposing camps. 
By your "correcting" some people here, if some say something against Judaism, Islam or JW ...or perhaps some else church , you are in fact not defending one thing, guess what thing? You said as this: I, SM defend JEW "Truth", defend ISLAM "Truth", defend JW "Truth". 
Please remind me again WHAT TRUTH You in fact wish, want to defend??!!    :)))
 

Oh wouldn't it be nice if the GB could interpret scripture by being guided by God's Holy Spirit.
They could stop guessing then and stop getting it all wrong as they do. 
 

I asked you to supply the details of the WT you quoted and you haven't, enough said. 
When you say other people don't back up their words I will remember this. 
Knowledge you have indeed, but you lack Spiritual Wisdom SM. 
You go to independent sources do you. Ah of course you have your own personal spies inside the JW Org, well done. 
You don't offend me SM, i find you entertaining, like a clown. You help me to laugh and relax. 
Have a great day. 

Ok, thanks for feeling I'm being genuine.
( Now for anyone else reading this please note, I am answering a comment. I am not ranting on about Child Abuse again as some say i do. I am giving me viewpoint as an answer to Anna. Even though i know i will get accused of 'playing the same old record'. )
Now. You wrote. "The demand for those documents by Zalkin was a farce and was eventually overturned" 
So you are admitting 'those document 'exist. 
Are we talking here about twenty years worth of Child Abuse Accusations Documents concerning the USA ? 
Are we talking about Child Abuse accusations that were never reported to the Police ? 
In my honest opinion i don't think the American government or FBI give a damn. The JW Org is not a threat to them so they don't care. 
JW Org is in America still because America  is probably the best country for 'freedom' of religion. Basically they can almost say and do what they want in the USA. (Compare to Russia for instance).
But that is all besides the point.  Jesus said 'if they ask for your outer garment give them you inner garment also'  'If you are conscripted to walk a mile, then walk two miles'. In other words always give more than you have to. 
IT SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT WORLDLY LAW. It should be about serving God properly.  Can you not understand that ?
Well obviously the GB don't understand it... 
Your message was about one isolated case. I am talking about Earthwide. 
Here is a link which gives some info about what happened here in the UK. But you probably won't believe it. 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/23/jehovahs-witnesses-charity-drops-attempts-to-block-abuse-inquiry
The JW Org here in the UK spent over two years trying to block the Charity Commission's investigation. WHY?
And then it seems it never was a 'full' investigation. So what did the JW Org hold back, we will probably never know. 
Again your write :- 
Trust me, the GB are not too frightened to cooperate with police and official bodies.
So why oh why don't they fully cooperate with all the investigations Earthwide ? 
I could write much more and probs' give you a hundred links, but it would serve no use. You think that your GB are wonderful men and serving God properly.  I think the opposite. We must just agree to differ.
And yes i am genuine.  

Now look what you've done! You got JTR started. I hope you two meet in flesh one day. (no pun intended!)

Actually he probably was. Not exclusively, but that was probably in the mix. Jesus said they would be “lyingly saying every sort of wicked thing” about his followers. History records they were accused of cannibalism. While not pedophilia?
 
 

Yes i think he likes to look very intelligent and knowledgeable to everyone. However I'm not impressed. 

Dear friend, if you are so busy in helping people in need, how you find time to respond on "stupid" things and loosing your valuable time on me and similar like me.?!  

:)))) i need to give you some smile and laugh about your methods of teaching. In almost all your respond, not only to me, but especially to me i will say... You using all past and present and future commentary on all kind of comments, conversation, reactions that i,  as your interlocutor made in mutual responses and even wider, that i made to someone else. 
It's pretty boring, if you have not noticed, and if that has not already been said to you by someone else. Please, try to focus your response on actual subject and not to disperse, spin  discussion from Adam to Melchizedek to Revelation book. :)))

HeÂ’s got a point there.
The trick is not to primarily speak to him, but to speak to whatever audience may be in the background.

So, to those that would criticize me for only talking about the JW Org, then it seems what i am doing is correct. 
As to whether you agree with my comments that is another matter. 
Thank you Admin for your comment especially this line.
"This club is about JW’s and @The Librarian is the main moderator."  
So, with no disrespect to a certain 'space traveller' my only interest in the issues I raise are JW's, JW Org, the Governing Body of same, the Child abuse problem within that Org and some of its teachings.
Those are the reasons I visit this forum. I do not wish to know what Muslims do, what Catholics do or what the rest of the world does.  
I do like it that Tom recognises that the JW Org 'bosses' are not happy with the congregants investigating / researching / enquiring for information or discussion outside of JW material. 
I would like to make something clear however. I do think the teaching programme / bible studies / door to door ministry are good ideas when done properly. So I am not wholeheartedly anti-JW Org as some may think. 
The problem begins when the GB / Org starts to misinterpret Bible teachings, and adding things to it. When it changes a meaning of a scripture three of more times over a few years, then it not only makes the GB and Org look silly, but it lessons the confidence that a person has in the GB being guided by God. And when it completely changes a viewpoint on something then one has to question any authority of the GB.
It would not have helped Noah if he was half way through building the Ark, then God said to him,  'Hang on Noah, something is wrong here, dimensions need altering, take it all apart and start again'. .... This is what the GB do, and they call it 'new light'.  
Hankulan, from what i have seen here, there are people that defend the JW Org as well as people that find fault with it.  And if you find that there are many others that criticize the JW Org, then ask yourself why are they doing so. Also, look deep into the allegations that i and others make, you may find that these allegations are true. Then you will have your reason as to why we make our comments.  
 

Looks like they all have PMS.
(Penguin Migraine Suits)

TTH:
People commit suicide mainly because their concept of how the Universe SHOULD be, differs from the way it really is, and their brains cannot resolve the difference between comfortable fantasy, their hopes and dreams, and day to day reality.
Trying to resolve the unresolvable causes great pain, depression, and self-generated suffering.
Here is a question that will clarify the issue for those whose thought processes, like yours, are agenda driven.
IN THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION ... AT WHAT TIME AND PLACE  WOULD YOU RATHER LIVE IN?
For me ... it is here and now ....
How about you?

I suffer terribly when I hear a public talk in a monotonous hour log monotone, on "The Wonders of Creation", and the speaker does not know the difference between a planet, and a star .... and misquotes sources ...... or states how horrible, terrible and mean things have become, when in fact it is the best time in the history of Human Civilization. (so far!)
... and that statement can be supported by MOUNTIANS of hard, cold facts.
 

Not out of context, it is actually true, hence why I put forth the examples.
I don't mind the insult because I am unfazed, this is going from a man who has seen things you consider unreal.
And no, everything uttered is exact truth unlike your claims of Peter being tempted or Chloe leading a church.
I don't. For as said to you before I am bounded by what the Bible says, what the church teaches, what comes from God, his Christ and the Word that is written. I am bounded by my culture in terms of respect, truth and integrity and so forth.
I speak what is right because such ones like to cloud information, such ones base their belief on opinions and emotion, not realizing what is the actual truth in the matter.
That being said, tell me Srecko, how am I basing everything on my own feelings and emotion, in this sense?
And no, my culture does not allow to be prideful and or righteous, nice try though.
I am always relaxed. I have changed lives, I have made a bit of change in the world, in my own country when it was hit by an earthquake and have witnessed death and a list of other things, even coming face to face with the occult that has plagued the islands, to add more salt to injury, our children was nearly taken into human trafficking and someone who was fighting against it was assassinated and his death ruled out to be a suicide and yet we still press forward. I helped out in Texas and even Puerto Rico when it was hit by the hurricane, when Sandy hit in 2012, I helped out on rebuilding the shore. I went to Africa and Thailand and met some good people, some of which who didn't know God, and the list goes on. I do not care what I was given, I do not do things to show off, I did such things because I choose to for God's people are able bodied and will give a helping hand.
Others can have their say, but surely no one is going to accept correction from a man, who stated God isn't surprised about people who change not just their sex, but their literal reproductive organs. It is thinking like that that shows you are not putting into application of God's Word let alone confusing Barak for Deborah, purposely, if you forgot that one.
If you want to "correct" show me evidence your Chloe claim, as with Peter's temptation because when I asked you, you dodged and evaded several times. Perhaps this time you can speak to correct something you yourself know to be false.

Oh my, so much has gone on while I've been away.
One thing that I noticed @JOHN BUTLERyou mentioned how Witness youths don't really want to go to meetings and assemblies. I agree, sometimes they would just rather do something else. But those who do it for the right reason, even though they don't really want to at the time, don't leave the minute they leave home. You can "suffer" anything if it's for the right reason. Conversely, if you do something for the wrong reason, then that usually has no staying power.

This forum is entitled JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES PUBLIC CLUB. Does that not mean it is about JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ? 
I don't 'live' on here so I don't know, but have 'some voices' not been allowed to be heard ?
Admin is very kind to me I feel and have allowed me to express my feelings freely. 
And if I'm the 'one individual' you are talking about then just look at the heading of this topic. It's about me, though not of my making, but I'm not running away from it. 
Can we get something straight. Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation, governed by its Governing Body, say that they are the ONLY true Organisation that God is using to gather people together to be saved through Armageddon. The ONLY ARK like Org, the ONLY hope.
The GB therefore have to pretend that the JW Org is clean and pure. Well I'm proving that the JW Org is not clean and pure and that the GB do not have direction from God. 
What you or anyone else say about any other religion is not important here on this JW Forum.  JW's are not supposed to be compared with 'people of the world'. JW's are supposed to be as pure as they can be and serving God to the best of their ability. 
The only way JW's and the JW Org should be compared is to God's very high standards, NOT TO STANDARDS OF THE WORLD. 
You know, I will admit to not being the brightest light in the street but even i can understand what God is looking for. 

Biblehub tells me nothing as I never even look at it, and basically I have no idea what it is. 
You seem to think you are the only one that knows anything and that you are always correct. 
If a man can see things with his own eyes does he need to do research ?  
This forum is enough and I have my own thoughts and don't need you to try to correct my every thought. 
Let's make this simple for you. The Governing Body are 8 men. Mostly American, mostly white. All the Elders of all the JW congregations serve the Governing Body to the extent of worshipping them.  The Elders have proved this by acting like puppets, following orders without question. 
The JW Org say that a person cannot serve God without being part of that Org. Where does the JW Org get this information from ? It gets it from the Governing Body.  Now I would think even you disagree with the Governing Body on that issue ?
So, I would be happy if you stopped trying to 'correct' me every time I comment. Please realise we have totally different opinions on most issues. Thankyou. 
 

It is possible to understand your position. You are person who cannot stand some situations and emotions in other people life. Perhaps you think how they alone are "guilty" for theirs problems. It can be and it does not have to be so.  
Please explain how do you "survive" Mr. Lett and some other JWTV presenter who "crying" for money on behalf of WT Corporation? :)))

On the heels of a $35 million jury award to a woman who alleged the congregation mishandled her childhood abuse, other survivors say there's a pattern of cover-ups.

She was 14, and at first, the attention felt innocent — like any other friendly interaction Moriah Smith had with fellow Jehovah's Witnesses during worship meetings.
Smith didn't think anything of the casual conversations she was having with Elihu Rodriguez, a 25-year-old man in her Seattle-area congregation. When he started giving her gifts, like new clothing and a cell phone, Smith — who was taught through her religion that sex is only between a husband and wife — did not think she was being groomed for sexual abuse.
Smith says it was in October 2012, five days before her 15th birthday, that Rodriguez had sex with her in the bedroom of the house she lived in with her father, a respected Jehovah's Witness elder. More sexual abuse followed for the next three months, she said. Ridden by panic attacks but ashamed and confused by what was happening, Smith didn't tell anyone, including her family, what was going on.
"I didn't understand anything really about sex," Smith, now 20, said. "I also had the fear of disappointing God. Not only that, but I could potentially be shunned."
The following year, Smith moved to Fairfield, Washington. Although she still did not feel comfortable disclosing to her parents — who she says did ultimately cut off contact with her when they found out years later what she endured in her prior congregation — she worked up the courage to report it to three elders at the Fairfield Kingdom Hall.
The elders "basically told me that it was my fault. They told me that I wasn't sorry enough to God for what I had done," said Smith, who has since left the religion and works in the Spokane, Washington, area as an administrative assistant at a private medical company. "They talked about putting Jehovah first, putting God first in your life, and I wasn't, apparently, doing that to their standards."
How the Jehovah's Witnesses handle sex abuse claims
In the tight-knit Jehovah's Witness community, outsiders, including authorities, are often viewed suspiciously, according to religious scholars. As a result, accusations of any sort between members of the congregation are typically first dealt with through an internal judicial process — one that requires two witnesses to a crime to prove guilt, a tenet that's in keeping with the Witnesses' strict, often literal interpretation of the Bible.
The religion's handling of abuse claims has recently come under fire. In the past decade, there have been at least 30 lawsuits nationwide against the organization arising from its responses to childhood sex abuse, and a jury award of $35 million on Sept. 26 to a Montana woman who claimed the congregation covered up the abuse she suffered at the hands of a congregation member as a child put a rare spotlight on the insular religion.
In Smith's case, she said the elders she reported to privately reproved her, Jehovah's Witnesses' quiet way of denying wrongdoers in the congregation of certain privileges. Rodriguez was not punished, she said.
"They had used the Bible to victim-shame me for what I had done, and they never did anything to him."
"They had used the Bible to victim-shame me for what I had done, and they never did anything to him," Smith said. "He got married, and he remained within the congregation — a child molester living among them."
Smith's allegations led to charges against Rodriguez. NBC News verified the details of her claims through charging documents filed in King County Superior Court in Washington in July; in addition to rape of a child in the third degree for what allegedly happened with Smith, Rodriguez was also charged with rape of a child in the second degree involving a 12- or 13-year-old Jehovah's Witness girl he allegedly had a relationship with around the same time.
When reached by phone, Rodriguez repeatedly told NBC News that he had no comment. He has not entered a plea in the case.
The Office of Public Information at the World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses responded to last month's Montana jury verdict with a brief statement that said Jehovah's Witnesses "abhor child abuse and strive to protect children from such acts," while adding it planned to appeal the $35 million fine.
Photographs of Moriah Smith's grandparents, (from left) her mother, her brother and her father, sit on a table at her house near a memento signifying the date of her baptism into the Jehovah's Witnesses faith in 2011. Rajah Bose / for NBC News
In response to questions from NBC News about what happened to Smith, Fairfield Kingdom Hall did not return a request for comment, and the Office of Public Information at the World Headquarters said in an email that "it would be inappropriate for us to comment on specific cases."
It directed NBC News to its "scripturally based position on child protection," a two-page document on its website that intersperses Biblical references with denouncements of child abuse and outlines how the congregation aims to protect its children.
"When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch office of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1) Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or there is some other valid reason," says one bullet point in the document.
Smith says that kind of protection was never offered in her case. Even worse, when she finally told her family a couple of years later that she had been in a sexual relationship with an older man at age 14, she says they accused her of flirting, and have since stopped talking to her because they view her as a "spiritual threat" to their own commitment to their faith.
"They were willing to turn their back on their own child to pursue a religion rather than support their own child," she said.
'There's no list of questions or protocols'
Other former Jehovah's Witnesses say they have experienced a pattern of covering up abuse to protect the religion's reputation dating back decades.
"There's no list of questions or protocols. These men are literally flying by the seat of their pants. They're not cops or welfare workers," said William Bowen, a former elder who now serves as an expert witness on how Jehovah's Witnesses operate with respect to allegations of sexual abuse. Bowen is also the national director of Silentlambs, a victims' support group where abuse survivors who have gotten kicked out of the religion anonymously share their stories. He says he has collected more than 1,000 stories on the website since he started it in 2001.
Chessa Manion, 29, describes the abuse she saw within the religious organization as "systemic." She says she was raped by the teenage son of an elder in 1994 in Illinois when she was five years old, and when her parents told elders what had happened, their response was: "Let bygones be bygones for Jehovah's sake. Don't ruin his name by taking this public."
"I feel that their first interest is not for the victim. It's for themselves," Manion said. "It's really this culture of silencing and of cleaning things up and of tolerance."
'This is not tolerable in a civilized society'
Smith's attorney, Irwin Zalkin, whose San Diego law firm has been litigating against Jehovah's Witnesses across the country for nearly two decades, expects to file a civil lawsuit in the coming month on her behalf.
He says the suit will claim negligence on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses for how they process child sex abuse claims such as Smith's. It will seek financial compensation and an overhaul of the religion's response to victims.
"At some point, they have to understand that this is not tolerable in a civilized society," Zalkin said. "She was the was the one who they, in essence, prosecuted."
Smith said she hopes that by taking legal action, she will prevent what happened to her from happening to other Jehovah's Witness children.
"It is absolutely an environment where the abuser is set up to abuse again," she said. "They are putting children at risk all the time because of the lack of action on the part of the organization. They do not have things in place to get these dangerous people out of the midst of their children."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jehovah-s-witnesses-use-bible-victim-shame-sex-abuse-survivor-n916326

I think you deliberately misquote or miss the point of my comments.
The point wasn't that Jesus 'was' offensive. The point was that the Pharisees didn't like the truth from Jesus, so the Pharisees found the truth from Jesus to be offensive.
However Paul, keep on keeping on as you seem to enjoy it.