Srecko Sostar

WT magazine quote:
"The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue." source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/
WT and JW members having real problem that coming to be bigger and bigger with every day.
Training Video on JWorg Convention very clear highlighted important point/lesson for JW members, when mum not want to respond on dfd daughter phone call (this act has been presented (showed) as role model that is need to be imitate). Also, there is/are more examples in publications and in public talks in congregations to support what is going on.
So, it is question; What GB means when say -  "blood ties remain and normal family affections and dealings continue."???  
What is "normal family affection" in this ???? when mum not want pick up phone to her flesh and blood?????!!!!!
I am so hurt when see this hypocrisy (not because my family not want speak with me), but because i feel the pain that is inside those (ex) JW people rejected by their families and friends!! because of WT policy.  

Recently (like this last week), I was attending to our JW publication cart at our local library.  We (the sister with me) were approached by a guy dressed like a country music wannabe with cowboy hat and a plaid shirt with the arms torn off.  His arms were flaying around as he talked about a Youtube vid about our "black dude" leader saying we need to cast our children out of our homes if they aren't following JW rules.  The sister and I were perplexed since we didn't know what he was talking about and tried to reason with him.  Now I know what got him fired up.   The recording of Bro Herd is very hard to decipher what he is saying but I know from previous broadcasts he and Bro Morris can express their personal opinion like its scripture.  They mean well but I feel they go too far sometimes.  
Casting out demons is totally different than dealing with a disfellowshipped child.  The demons had been in Jehovah's presence as fully functioning perfect beings.   They chose a course of rebellion with full knowledge and understanding not subjected to the influence of Adamic sin.    A imperfect child does make their own choices but who knows what influences those choices.   Being an imperfect human gets complicated.    Every country on earth that I can think of has a prison system to protect their good citizens from the bad.  As with Russia we can see that system has a hidden agenda to do just the opposite.   As humans in or out of the Truth, we can have a hidden agenda and I suspect the BoE is not exempt if they are not careful.   I pray for Jehovah to repair any damage done and to cause corrections to be made.  

That’s funny because during the recent court case in Canada regarding shunning, that the org bragged about winning, their lawyers flat out lie with this line :
"As far as their family members are concerned, normal family relations continue with the exception of spiritual fellowship."

Best way to shun your kids completely is to stone them, according to Bible Principles.
So much wisdom

Strange how he doesn't quote a bible verse, he just states that the Bible "clearly says" you should shun your family members, your own children.
If the Bible clearly says you should do that, why can't you quote any scriptures? Because there are none. Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that.

This comes from the final talk at the Birmingham, AL Convention. Herd talks kind of low and there is some background noise, so here is a transcript starting at about 1:25.
I thought this was interesting because it doesn't appear to be in the talk outline. Admittedly, I just skimmed through the outline quickly, so it might be in there. Either way, there is something twisted about comparing the shunning of children to casting out demons from heaven.
Edit: For those wondering, this talk is from August 5. The part before when the transcript starts is Herd talking about King Asa removing his grandmother from her position.

By the way, as a real aside ... did you know that in court cases about child molestation, the WTB&TS has repeatedly claimed "clergy-penitent privilege" to try and keep from having to disclose information to the authorities?
They claim they are clergy when it suits their corporate purposes, and declare they are not, when not on trial.

... by the way .... Jehovah never spoke against suicide ... another cultural moray to subvert common sense.
Soldiers understand this.
Busybodies do not.
By the way ... in principle, my comments are still on topic.
What is REALLY being discussed here is clergy over-reach, and going beyond the things the Bible  actually says.

Would it be murder if someone was trapped in a burning car, was on fire, and I shot them in the head, killing them.
TECHNICALLY, yes.
... but not REALLY.
Not in the REAL world.of common sense.
On 9-11, when the World Trade Center Towers went down, dozens of people leaped to their deaths, rather than be burned alive.
Was that suicide?
TECHNICALLY, yes.
... but not Really.
Not in the REAL world of common sense.

there are many things that are stupid, that Jehovah has not spoken against.
Its called FREEDOM.
I personally would rail against smoking because it is stupid, suicidal, addiction to drugs, and expensive, but NOT extrapolate and put words into Jehovah's Mouth that he did not speak.
The Society's policies often are a VERY good idea (sometimes NOT) ..... adherence where they espoused Bible counsel correctly, saved my life, integrity,  and health many times .... but when I used to Scuba Dive, Skydive, Surfboard, ride a motorcycle, and explore the Congo (working), and other things, opinions vary as to their advisability, and I considered their overreaching  just being busybodies, forbidding to others what scared them for the sake of total control of EVERYTHING.
(Sad, cringeworthy joke: "Everything that is not forbidden ... is mandatory".)
Jehovah spoke against becoming a drunkard many times .... and I seem to remember,  even against "druggery"..
What is "druggery", anyway? 
And who decides?
If Jehovah did not explicitly say that ... I personally would not make the Almighty God my personal agenda spokesman hand puppet.
However, "Quod est Necessarium, est Licitum" (That which is necessary, is legal). If someone smoked, say marijuana for glaucoma to preserve their eyesight, or to lessen the pain from cancer, I personally think that prohibition would NOT apply.
I am willing to bet my LIFE on that.
My mother and father died slow, from cancer.  If someone was dying and in great pain from disease or injury, being addicted to morphine I personally consider that drug addiction to be quite acceptable.
If they got "high" from it, it would be a side effect.  NOT "druggary" at all.
TRUE Theology ALWAYS has to make common sense !
 

Well ... since I have three mixed race children (white, black, Spanish, Inca Indian and Asian mix) with a permanent "tan", a suspicion of racism is thereby cut off at the knees.

You seem to be saying that there should be no prohibition unless it is specifically mentioned in scripture. Would you say that tobacco smoking should be viewed similarly?

Please watch your racism checker!

If this thesis is wrong ? What then? You have premise. But if you handle with wrong premise all your conclusions based on wrong premise will be questionable or useless. 

I have often said to my wife, that I wish I had enough money to use a small portion of it to buy a shiny new helicopter.
II would buy about 3,000 of these pillows and load them on the helicopter.
Then I would go to the geographic coordinates of Warwick Bethel World Headquarters, at about 500 feet altitude, push them out the door.
Perhaps I should start a GOFUNDME site ....
Frankly, I wonder how rich people EVER get bored!

A now a message from our sponsor:
 

It's like those that fear if their children play a Beatles Vinyl Album backwards , they will hear the words "Worship Satan".
If that is what they and/or their kids hear ( .... and how do you even play a vinyl record backwards? ...) they have VASTLY more critical real world problems than ".... I wanna hold your hand ...." , which backwards is " .... dnah ruoy dloh annaw I ...."
wah de do DAH!
Hubba Bubba Bubba
Zip, Blip, CHING!
 

Here is a thought I just had ... different races are affected differently by different practices .... could it be that this is a very severe problem for some races, leading them to criminal activity and degradation, yet other races it does not affect in an adverse way at all?
I mean .... white people are very susceptible to cystic fibrosis, and malaria, but black people have more of a natural immunity to malaria, and as far as I know, cystic fibrosis is completely unknown (?) in black people. American Indians are said to be completely made crazy by "firewater", or whiskey as known today, but other races , not so much. Jewish people have Tay-Sachs disease, but white people and blacks, and Indians do not (presumably ... I may have gotten some facts mixed up ...)
All people and races are NOT the same .... this is a liberal fantasy.
I did math for 45 years for a living, but I probably could not compete with the average Asian teenager. There is a REASON why the best basketball players are black,  and the best Physicists are Jewish and India Indian ( ...long story there ...).
All people are all equal in the eyes of Jehovah and the Christ.... but NOBODY is equal to anybody else ... and there is a reason why there are NO Japanese Sumo Ballerinas, or 6'-7" Fighter Pilots.
There is a famous joke, with several variations floating around,  that sums this up .... about "Heaven", and "Hell", and the reason it is funny is that there is a basis in truth to it.
Heaven:
The police are British The cooks are French The engineers are German The administrators are Swiss The lovers are Italian Hell:
The police are German The cooks are British The engineers are Italian The administrators are French The lovers are Swiss   Perhaps the reason Jehovah God NEVER mentioned this subject at all, with a view to prohibition.... EVER ... was that with the Jews, it was a simple matter of stress relief ... like a boiling tea kettle letting off  steam ..... or like after a large Mexican Dinner, a round of flatulence, later.
( Think about this ... the human body is 90% water, and when full of digesting food and fermentation or gas pressure builds up ... the gas pressure relief valve is at the BOTTOM of a tank of liquid.  WOW! )
I do not know , but I suspect that like a drunk American Indian, masturbation among some individuals and/or races can be devastating mentally and socially, while for others merely a form of very private relaxation.
Whatever the case is, or perhaps some version I did not think about .... there is ONE THING that ALL CHRISTIANS ARE ABSOLUTELY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY ORDERED NOT TO DO, UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH!
"Do not go beyond the things Written"
 
 

Oh come on, this seems to have started as a joke, pillow gate. SM has made it serious as he seems to have some interest in the problem. Either you or someone said, that either the GB or others, are trying to give instruction where God Himself has given none. Is it therefore right for the GB, the elders or anyone to judge those that have this 'problem', if God himself and Jesus Christ have not mentioned it.  I can see it as a way for  'shrinks' to earn money by making people feel guilty and then pretending to 'help' them... But if God shows no interest in it then should we even be bothering to worry about it ? Of course the GB could be using it to make the young ones feel guilty. Like the Pharisees loading burdens on the people. 

SM you seem to be the only one on here worrying about it all. I have just re-read the first three pages and it seems to have started off as a joke... Pillow gate. These people that you say are trying to 'help' others. Do they get paid for doing so ? Are they what i call 'shrinks' ? Messing with people's heads. Telling people what is right and wrong even though God Himself gives no direction on such matters. God will judge each of us through Jesus Christ, when the time comes. Let us not be like the Pharisees who put extra burdens on the people. 

I note that you didn't answer any of my questions and I'm wondering if your reply above is supposed to be some sort of an blanket answer. If you see my points as just being 'facts of the head' then you seem to be of the same mind as the GB. That is, that it's ok to allow Child Abuse in the Org, its just collateral damage. GB thinking, 'What's a few thousand abused kids and complaining adults when we have 8 million members and the money keeps rolling in' ? 'What's a few suicides and people with mental / emotional problems due to the shunning issues which have no scriptural backing, whilst we still have our power and glory from men' ?  'We'll just make a few more 'clever' videos and predictions by misusing scripture'.  'A few more misuses of scripture  in our 'study Watchtowers, and the sheep will still follow us'.. 
I do hope that Jehovah is closely examining the 'hearts' of the Governing Body. For surely their hearts are not toward serving Jehovah God. 
 
 

The Finnish government has ruled that the current law allowing Jehovah's Witnesses to avoid military service, in place for several decades, is discriminatory and contradicts the constitution.
In the future, Finnish Jehovah's Witnesses* will be obliged to either serve in the nation's military or perform civil service on the same terms as everyone else, the government ruled, submitting a corresponding proposal to parliament, national broadcaster Yle reported.
According to the 1987 law, Jehovah's Witnesses were not only freed from the military draft, they were freed of any obligation to perform community service as a pacifist alternative, a common option among other young people in Finland. The Finnish government has decided that this preferential treatment is discriminatory and contradicts the constitution. Repealing the law will allow all religious groups to get equal treatment in terms of conscription, the government's press release said.
The government proposed a three-month transition period. Those applying for suspension within the three-month period before the new law enters into force shall be allowed to skip military service. After the transition period, exemptions will be no longer granted.
Abolishing the Jehovah's Witnesses' draft exemption has been considered several times before, in 2006, 2009, 2011 and 2013, but nothing came of the discussions. However, the debate was re-kindled this year, when the Helsinki Supreme Court overruled a prison sentence against a conscientious objector who refused to perform community service. The court found it discriminatory to sentence a conscientious objector, when Jehovah's Witnesses don't need to do any military or community service whatsoever.
"Today we have a kind of two-storied definition of personal convictions. Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy statutory liberation from military service, while others with pacifist convictions don't," former Defense Minister Stefan Wallin, who has long pushed for the abolition of differential treatment, explained.
Veikko Leinonen, a Jehovah's Witnesses information officer in Finland, said this isn't a "working solution."
"It's problematic. The belief the Jehovah's Witnesses follow opposes all forms of war and killing," Leinonen stressed. "Ideally, we should keep the system that exists today. It has worked well and does not violate anyone's rights," he added.
This move is expected to cover some 130 people annually. According to Teemu Penttilä, the leader of the task force behind the investigation, the number of "total objectors" refusing both military service and community service won't rise significantly. In 2017, 33 conscientious objectors were sentenced in Finland.
The Finnish Defense Forces operate on the principle of universal male conscription, although women are allowed to volunteer and have been availing themselves of this opportunity increasingly. With a peacetime strength of about 16,000 troops, Finland is capable of mobilizing up to 230,000 troops and service personnel within four weeks, making it the largest force in Scandinavia.
The total number of Jehovah's Witnesses is estimated at about 20,000 in Finland.
* Jehovah's Witnesses are banned in Russia
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201809211068220658-finland-jehovah-witnesses-army/

This is what happens when you wake sleeping giants !
Be careful when you pray for Justice.
You might get it !

Another way:

This is a "Judicial Committee" of Jehovah's Witnesses summoning a JW member to a "hearing" for one of his suspected online profiles behaviour.
"It has come to light and to the attention of the body of elders"....

These same quasi-legal hearings from brothers who print out official summons "correspondence" in red ink?
Hmmm...
Do you think JW.org is embedded in Apple Siri or Alexa by Amazon listening devices?