Srecko Sostar

My comment which you are twisting was about whether a true servant of God would need a 'mans law' to tell them what action to take. That is, should they report Child Abuse or not. Any true servant of God would know that all Child Abuse should be reported to the Police and the other authorities such as Child welfare whether its compulsory or not. The Pedophile needs to be caught and dealt with by a legal court. You do know don't you that there were courts and judges and prisons in Jesus' time ? 

To one of the foundation stones of the living Temple of God, (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) Jesus said,
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”  John 14:12-18
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”  John 8:31,32
“For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)”  Eph 5:8,9
(John 3:19-21; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rom 1:25)
“As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia.” 2 Cor 11:10
“The Elder,
To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth, 2 because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever” 2 John 1,2
 “The Elder,
To the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth:
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers. 3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.”  3 John 1-4
“Thus says the Lord:
‘I will return to Zion,
And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem.
Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth,
The Mountain of the Lord of hosts,
The Holy Mountain.’  Zech 8:3
“Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.”  Rev 14:1
“These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.”  Rev 14:4-5
“Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.”  Deut 11:18
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
“Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth”  John 17:17
“And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”  John 1:14
The entire Kingdom of God will be based on the Spirit of truth, which is the gift of life.  (“I am the way, the truth, and the life” John 14:6)  ALL of God’s children will come to know His Word.  John 4:24
“The Spirit (of truth) and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.”  Rev 22:17
 
 
 

Having never claimed to be anything but a Barbarian, it should be as no surprise that I might use real fire .... if it was up to me.
After a fair trial ... not allowing any witnesses ... no recordings ... no transcripts .... at night, in a darkened Kingdom Hall, in the back room ... with the front door locked ....  of course.
I mean ...... fair is fair.

"clear, pure water of truth" ?? ...and famous question that can be hear from platform and in witnessing "Would you drink water from a glass with just one drop of poison in it?"
 
Water That Leads to Life
..."Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to taste the pure waters of truth." .....
[Picture on page 9]
"You can find the ‘waters of truth’ at your local Kingdom Hall"
 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009003

Without hard evidence ... I try not to think at all about what other people do, or don't do.
I had three Elders surround me at the Kingdom Hall, and well within my "air space",  one asked me  without any verbal foreplay  whatsoever: "What do you think about the Governing Body?".
I replied without thinking .... "I do not think about them at all!".
They didn't bother me again for almost a year.

We each have our deeply felt opinions about every imaginable issue ... and we are entitled to believe, or feel, anything that makes us, become us.
It's when we wish to impose on others .... under the color of "It is God's will" ...... that the road to hell gets another load of good intentioned  extra large paving stones.
I personally am very comfortable with the idea  that people that abuse animals should be tortured to death ... and take several weeks to do it .....  but I would NOT expect that viewpoint to be shared by others ... NOR would I drag up some ambiguous scriptures to support that idea, or imply that it is the "Will Of God!".
"Do not go beyond the things that are written" .... was written for a good and sound REASON.
Perhaps even to protect everybody ... from me.
 

Who is going to remove  men at the apex of the pyramid?
Outside of secular authorities who might arrest and imprison them for violation of secular law, there is no one WITHIN the .ORG to fire them.   Even if imprisoned on some charge, like embezzlement or something else, they would still be the titular figureheads of the .ORG
Jehovah God COULD turn us all into winged frogs .... but current hard evidence shows that he does NOT interfere with any aspect of mankind's follys, whether they be deliberate, or through chance and circumstance , or just being plain goofy and clueless.
Many fantasy, wishful thinking bogus examples to the contrary ... the Governing Body KNOWS this.
They cannot be fired for crimes, incompetence, or just being plain goofy and clueless.
No matter WHAT they do ... the money keeps rolling in ....
 

200%+ agree

In honesty I don't think the masturbation problem is such a problem in God's eyes. To some humans that want to judge others, masturbation can be used as an excuse to judge, and could possibly be big business for 'shrinks'.. As for the JW's Governing Body, i think the masterbation video and other info' is just a 'smoke screen' or side track, to take the pressure off the serious problems within the Org. If the GB can pretend to be concerned about the cleanliness of the Org then it will look good for them in front of man. But of course God sees through such things. 

So, is it true that the GB started gathering documents about Child Abuse / pedophilia accusations, from all congregations in the USA from 1997 and that this is ongoing ? Then is it true that the GB or its legal departments refused to hand these documents over the the Supreme Court of California ? Is it also true that the Organisation was fined around $2 million for not handing over the documents ? Doesn't  the scriptures say to 'be obedient to the law of the land unless it conflicts with God's laws' ? Surely God would not want the Organisation to remain  unclean ?  ......  Then again is it true that the GB or its Legal dept' agreed on massive (secret amount) payouts to the two men (ex Brothers)  regarding the child abuse they suffered whilst in the 'truth' ?  And who's money did the GB use to make these massive payouts ? ....  But you say 'no crimes have been committed'... And in Canada is it true that a 66 million dollar lawsuit is in the process, against the JW Org because of Child Abuse  /pedophilia ? I won't ask about here in the UK or in the Netherlands. Perhaps it was the reports of Child Abuse being so regular that made the GB  take action in 1997...  As for this stupid argument as to what the law states or does not state, its totally irrelevant. JW's should know what is right in God's eyes without needing a man made law. And talking of law it seems there is some proof that a brother (of some importance in the Org) here in the UK actually told brothers to destroy documents about Child Abuse accusations "because satan is coming after the organisation". Um destroying evidence is surely illegal in man's law, and against God's 'laws too. I have read in scripture that if a man has some information regarding a 'crime' or bad deed, if he withholds that information it is a sin for him. It is as bad as deliberately telling lies. .... It matters not what any other organisation does. Religious or business, legal or illegal.......  People, brothers or otherwise, should not be considered collateral damage within the JW ORG, just to keep the pretence of cleanliness. 
So I will repeat my comment which you answered on. 
And how could a person, with a clear conscience, go on the ministry to try to bring more people into an Organisation which allows such wicked Child Abuse to go on ? 

In any Corporation, the ONLY way to correct things that are seriously wrong, is to fire those responsible.
NOTHING else actually works !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No mechanism exists,  to fire those responsible.
The only thing that will sustain such a system is an unlimited supply of free money.
 

The GB claims that only those 8 men themselves are the 'faithful and discreet slave'. Although there are many more humans that claim to be of the anointed those 8 men say that the others are not important... Where do they get their authority from to say such things ? They also say that some who claim to be anointed are 'mentally unbalanced'. These 8 men pass judgement on other anointed brothers and sisters, whilst praising themselves up. Luke 14 v 11 "For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted"....  I think God may have these 8 men removed and replaced by more humble servants of His.  It seems strange to have only 8 men when there were twelve tribes of Israel and Jesus himself chose 12 men as his closest companions. It also seems strange to have a GB of mainly white Americans. The Org is now Earthwide and therefore it would seem more logical to have a 'body of 12 men' from all the nations possible. Each man would have more understanding of the problems people from his own country face... And maybe also God would use others from the anointed to be more active and giving more input. This is of course only my opinion. 

I will wait for Gone Away's explanation, as it may be entirely different, exactly the same, or anything in the middle.
Even when Jehovah fought for and with the armies of ancient Israel, individual soldiers were killed. How do you explain THAT? It may not have "been the issue", or "in the overall scheme of things" spiritually, but it was them who did the dying..
I SEE your viewpoint ... I just disagree with it. 
I cannot believe that the reason that Jehovah God is letting millions of good people die, one at a time, or in groups, is to ALLOW his arch enemy freedom of action.
I believe something very common to people causes the death of these six Witnesses by drowning.
1.) perhaps the road was wet, and the car skidded into the river, ditch, pond or whatever, or
2.) perhaps the driver fell asleep at the wheel and ran off the road, or
3.) perhaps a tire blew out and they lost control, or some other very common occurrence.
I personally do not believe that God or Satan had ANYTHING to do with this accident .... that it was merely "chance and circumstance befall us all".
THAT is what makes the most common sense, and is the most reasonable explanation ... and dragging up a scripture to invoke supernatural intervention by acting, not acting, or some universal agenda is wrong, and delusional.
Oh, and there is one more of many more possibilities....
4.)  They never learned how to swim, and/or never visualized in advance what they would do if their car was submerged in water.
People that think about emergencies, and meditate on how to handle them, and mentally prepare themselves for specific scenarios, OFTEN don't have life killing emergencies .... merely "experiences ".
It is my opinion that Jehovah has NEVER protected individual people in everyday situations, as if he did, that means that the freedom to screw up would not exist, and true Freedom requires "chance and circumstances befall us all", without divine interference ... or it is NOT really Freedom.
If there is no REAL Freedom, and unfettered consequences full and complete .... then as night follows day ... there is no responsibility, as our actions are not our own.
You can't have it BOTH ways.
 

Ah but the Pope is organised and so is the Archbishop, and probably most leaders of most 'Christian' religions, but it does not make them right and it does not give them God's approval. So to follow the direction of a GB that does not have God's approval and is not directed by God's holy spirit would be 'the blind leading the blind'. And how could a person, with a clear conscience, go on the ministry to try to bring more people into an Organisation which allows such wicked Child Abuse to go on. And how could such a person follow the wicked rule of shunning innocent people just because the GB says so.... Yes I agree with you, God has to show us the right Organisation to be part of, but the JW Org does not seem to measure up to it. You seem to put aside the fact that the GB proclaim to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' and they say that no one else but them have this special communication with God. So for you to say the GB may or may not be doing a good job is rather strange if in fact you believe the proclamation they make about themselves.

If this thesis is wrong ? What then? You have premise. But if you handle with wrong premise all your conclusions based on wrong premise will be questionable or useless. 

Sorry don't understand. The scriptures say 'Keep knocking and it will be opened to you'. So i keep knocking by regular prayer. 

I am not fully aware of this discussion as it has only been coming up on my emails for the past 3 days. However it is my opinion that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been going beyond the things written for many years. As they falsely claim to be the 'faithful and discreet slave class' they then use this claim to make any rules and statements they wish. I haven't watched the masterbation video but it would seem to me that the GB are acting like politicians, trying to direct the floodlight in a different direction, away from the Child Abuse serious problem in the Org, of which the GB are the cause....  However i did find in Leviticus at ch15 v16 Jehovah does mention about a man being unclean if he has an emission of semen. ....  Moving on. Your underlined sentence about mistreating our own family. Is this a nudge at the Shunning problem in the JW org ? If not it should be. The GB of the JW org make up their own rules and 'laws' and the Elders follow like puppets, obeying without question. The GB has 'chased away' many people. Many of them victims of Child Abuse and many others that try to help those victims. So the GB of the JW Org are guilty of manslaughter if those 'outside the Org' will be judged unworthy on the 'Judgement Day'.  My opinion is that the GB are the 'evil slave class' that mistreat the servants of the house of God. But where it goes from here i  have no idea... If we are close to the 'end of this system' then surely Yahweh / Jehovah has to show everyone the true way to serve Him properly. If not then how can we be considered unworthy, if we haven't been shown the honest 'truth'.  This stupid Masterbation video at such an important time just shown how lost the GB are. and it shows that they are not the 'faithful slave'. As for 'telling all' to the Elders, no definitely not. We should confess our sins to God through Jesus Christ and ask forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice, not confess our sins to mere men who have no authority from God. It can be clearly seen that the Elders have no idea how to manage anything other than the running of the 'meetings'.... Since leaving the JW Org I have continuously prayed to God using both names Yahweh and Jehovah and always prayed through Jesus Christ. I am reading the 4 gospels over and over now and finding things I never noticed before. but I will confess one thing, I have not yet moved forward. So I am waiting on God through Jesus Christ and the holy spirit to give me direction through His written word. Otherwise what options do i have as I believe the scriptures when they say 'Put not your trust in earthling man'.  However i am confused by one more thing. It has always occurred to me that God's written word was never written for all of us to understand properly. It seems to have been written for only the Anointed to understand and then for them to instruct those who show faith. But if we cannot be sure who the anointed truly are then we have a problem. 'By their works you will know them' for sure, but would that really mean going through every 'christian type religion' ? Enough for now. Please do not be angry with me for sharing my thoughts even though they may be off topic. 

Therein lies the problem, Anna.
EVERYBODY who considers themselves a Christian, in every religion "Christian based" on Earth, has their own deeply felt ideas about what a Christian should be.
Makeup, tattoos, eating of foods or not, forbidding  clergy to marry, and the list is literally endless, as it varies with "new light", old light, flashing light, colored light, black light, etc.
Something that CAN be interpreted to fit a translator's, or interpreter's preconceived notions of their personal morays, WILL BE. 
This is where the common sense smell test has to take place.   Masturbation  MAY be alluded to in Paul's writings, but in the Old Testament, When Jehovah was a "harsher taskmaster", and NOBODY could obey the Old Covenant regulations .... THERE WERE NO REGULATIONS ABOUT THIS SUBJECT.
This was at a time when nearly EVERYTHING ELSE  was regulated.
Hard evidence, what we REALLY know from what is ACTUALLY clearly and unambiguously written is that Jehovah only mentioned it as something that Onan did, and the criticism was ONLY that he did not impregnate someone.
                                                            Look it up.
With this perspective, whatever Paul was talking about, common sense would dictate it was NOT THIS.
I am of course only guessing ... but understanding humans' propensity to want to control EVERY ASPECT of other peoples' lives ... and commonly  going beyond the things that ACTUALLY "written", and those same amateur tyrants can make a good living, by inducing guilt in the guiltless.
LEAVE THE PEOPLE ALONE.   ( God does NOT care about this )
DON'T BE A "BUSYBODY"  (... remember THAT scripture? )
Because ALL translators and interpreters are subject to what they do being filtered and colored through their own perspective, it is CRITICALLY important that we  do NOT GO BEYOND  the things in the Bible that are clearly and unambiguously written.
For a hundred years the Society has continuously "overreached" for organizational stability, and have had their butts chewed completely off! 
Overreaching, even with the best of intentions ( with which the road to hell is reportedly paved...)  generates tyranny,  and error .... and ingrained, induced mental illness.
Once this takes root, common sense no longer becomes all that common, and the Pharisees win, and that means the people  .... lose.
If they leave the TRUTH ... chased away ... it is the same as manslaughter.
And we who continue to carry these unnecessary heavy burdens become slaves, only to be  sheared and eaten.
Next thing you know, it will make perfect sense to treat our own family, spiritual and physical, with extreme cruelty.
There is a very simple solution.
"Do NOT go beyond the things that are written."
 

UPDATE: 9/18/2018
I had a tree about 150 feet tall and as big around as a barrel fall across my chain link fence in the side yard and crushed about three, ten foot sections of fence.
When it gets cooler, I will chain saw it and repair the fence.
90% of the tree is on my neighbor's property, but it is a big farm, so I will not have to move it.
It looks like we missed "Stormageddon"!
It was like being chased by a giant turtle.

thanks for respond 

The whole point of my berating this particular issue is that is "low hanging fruit", that is to say,  this is an almost universal experience of almost EVERYONE that is alive, or ever lived, , whereas murder is (presumably) NOT., so it is an EASY subject to address ..... But even that is not the main  point.
The MAIN point is " Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
Jehovah God has spoken against MANY things, sometimes dozens or perhaps hundreds of times.  O.K. ... THAT is "O.K. to reiterate as good counsel, but for crying out loud ... things that He has expressed NO OPINION ON WHATSOEVER .... leave the people alone!
Do not load a heavy burden upon them because we feel down to OUR bones that it MUST be the will of God ... WHEN GOD IS IGNORING IT.
I DO NOT LIKE WOMEN WITH MAKEUP.
I feel it is disingenuous, and clownish, and narcissistic. 
But THEY like it, and I can see no reason to burden people by lying that it is the will of God that they not paint their faces.  I could even say this is "an unclean practice" and immoral, if I believed that (which I do not), and invoke ambiguous scripture, or MANY scriptures that pretended to support whatever  pet agenda I might have.
The MAIN point is " Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
When we do, it opens up a Pandora's Box of creating a mindset that allows for ANY pet idea or bogus agenda to become acceptable ... and when invoking the false authority of God to support our sad, criminal silliness, we dishonor God, and chase people AWAY from the TRUTH.
I could expound on this theme for many pages .... but the major problem we have in the Truth today, is Victorian culture and personal preferences ... ARE PRESENTED AS THE WILL OF GOD!
This actually slanders Jehovah and his Christ, making them hand puppets where we are supplying the words.
The MAIN point is " Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
This issue is just the classic example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
" Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
 
 
 
 

As my grown daughter once said to a "Brother" who was showing her  unwanted "attentions",
"If you don't leave me alone my Dad will kill you. Yes, he will go to prison, but YOU will be dead!".
This man and I had met, and he knew that was true .... and he turned his "attentions" elsewhere.
Sometimes the most complicated interpersonal problems have a simple solution.
... and I am a man who takes spiders outside when I can so as not to harm them.
 

The thought just occurred to me, that is we as Jehovah's Witnesses become tired of waiting on the Governing Body to straighten out this problem, AND hold those accountable, we can do it OURSELVES.
Report EVERYTHING to the police ... and let them sort it out.
Apparently THEIR system of Truth and Justice works better than ours!
Not perfect ..... just better.

Two separate things. But if 1) doesn't happen, then 2) probably will. 

This might be a good time to REVIEW about a 7MB video clip of the FAMOUS "Pillowgate" Videos ( the complete video for Brothers at Bethel is almost a gigabyte, and the one for Sisters is about 95MB).
You can be sure that the GB is CERTAINLY giving plenty of food for thought, at the proper time.
After all .... WE PAID FOR IT WITH OUR CONTRIBUTIONS!.
We ALL should benefit from this ... uh.... this "sound counsel".

2 CHAIR pORNEA .mp4 Knowing how important this is, I tried to upload the full videos, but the system choked on it, and would not accept it.