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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to TrueTomHarley in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    No. It is Methuselah who lived the longest.
    :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    Ooh. I just read Sreck’s prior response, which humanizes him. Alright, I’ll take back some of the )s, about 20 ot them.
  2. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Yes, JW's most commonly mentioned such a reason (time distance) for evolution in human imperfection and increase in imperfection, with result in big wars, big evil and similar things as sign of last days.
    I think that "increase in imperfection" not exist.  We can talking about "increase" of violence, of burglary in summer time, of hunger, of high pressure in people who living in towns ..... etc.
    If Bible text said that in one particular day God throw out Adam and Eve from Eden with words of "curse" and how that make them "imperfect human" that can mean how in 1 second all have changed. To this moment you are perfect and from now on you are imperfect. Nothing about slow decrease in one characteristic and then slow increase in other characteristic. Killing is killing. No matter do you did this as perfect or imperfect human. Only increase, evolution, progress can be in methods and a means (knife or with Sonic weapon) of killing. With increase of population on Earth also goes increase of death.  Story abut Adam long life (and some other people in Genesis) that last for few centuries and how that means his/human slow decrease of perfection is something else. It is interesting that, as far as i know, Bible has no reports about how his long life looks in details and to tell us something about his decrease of mental, intellectual, spiritual and other features.

    I think, if we talk about the amount, quantity of imperfection in a human, then it has nothing to do with some length in years (6000). The distance from Adam's point of perfection to today's man and our imperfection does not mean how with the years that pass from time point A to B (in our example 6,000 years) also increases human imperfections.
    You are imperfect or not. You can not be more imperfect then you are. And also on other hand, if you or Adam  are perfect, you can not be more perfect then you are.
    I am not talking about some skill that we improves with time. And in this case of issue about skill, we can ask; if you are perfect, does this means that all your skills are perfect? Does that means that your perfect skill will be more perfect after 10000 years? On other side if you are imperfect and if you have enough practice and talent your skill will be better, will be "perfect" in some point of time but only to some "highest" point that your imperfect perfection can reach. So, logic how with with the passing of time imperfect human/people become even more imperfect not sound reasonable to me.
    People proved how they made some progress in all segments of life. Question that rises is, in what direction we going and using what we know and have. Perfect devil and perfect Adam and Eve proved that "perfection" are not guarantee for perfect life and all what that suppose to be. Knowledge that was "unknown" to first human, and ability to "differentiate" what is "good and bad" was became possible to them and people after them, only latter, after  they took the  fruit. So, we now  have that sort of knowledge too, what is good and what is bad. With or without Bible. Because Genesis said ,And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." 
    Well, as far as i can see now, our increasing or decreasing in something have some connection with time but not in the religious sense that JWorg explains why mankind  imperfection are bigger today then before and why we are in situation that we have now.   
  3. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Evacuated in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Notwithstanding that "wicked men will advance from bad to worse" 2Tim 3:13. Over time I think that means.
  4. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to TrueTomHarley in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Call me Ishmael. For many years I sailed onboard the Pequod with the crazed Captain Rook in his maniacal search for Moby Geddon.
    "Captain, whale sighting dead ahead!" seawoman Anna shouted out. "Maybe you're wrong!" Rook muttered and shoved her so violently that she toppled overboard, petticoats all aflutter.
    "Captain Rook," seaman JWI stated. "My calculations indicate a 78% probability of the while whale's proximity within 23 cubits. Of course, accuracy is necessary, but if you triumverate the trifecta intersect, the conclusion is justified. Look, if you will, at page 673 of 'Nautical Nocturnal Habits of Northern Hemisphere Mammals' that I brought from my private library, which along with others, explains why the entire ship lists six degrees. It clearly indicates (see chart) that...."
    "Gag this fellow, and get him out of my sight!" roared Rook.
    Moby Geddon breached and the consequent splash soaked every square inch of the vessel. "Captain!" seaman Goneaway shouted, "I sense the whale is near!" "Liar!" Rook shouted. "Throw him in irons below!"
    "I'll handle that gladly sir, hehehehe ))))))" seaman Srecko responded.
    Moby Geddon breached again and this time its tail caught the stern of the Pequod and spun it like a pinwheel. "Captain!" seaman Truetom cried, "Surely the whale is near!"
    "Throw him to the sharks for calling me Shirly!" Rook bellowed. "I'll have respect here, do you hear?!"
    "Now hear this, you scurvy dogs! I have a great job offer in Port Zaire, the best I've ever had, and I mean to get there straightaway. Don't cross me, or I'll have you walk the plank like I did seaman Franz and Shroeder long ago!"
     
  5. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from JW Insider in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Yes, JW's most commonly mentioned such a reason (time distance) for evolution in human imperfection and increase in imperfection, with result in big wars, big evil and similar things as sign of last days.
    I think that "increase in imperfection" not exist.  We can talking about "increase" of violence, of burglary in summer time, of hunger, of high pressure in people who living in towns ..... etc.
    If Bible text said that in one particular day God throw out Adam and Eve from Eden with words of "curse" and how that make them "imperfect human" that can mean how in 1 second all have changed. To this moment you are perfect and from now on you are imperfect. Nothing about slow decrease in one characteristic and then slow increase in other characteristic. Killing is killing. No matter do you did this as perfect or imperfect human. Only increase, evolution, progress can be in methods and a means (knife or with Sonic weapon) of killing. With increase of population on Earth also goes increase of death.  Story abut Adam long life (and some other people in Genesis) that last for few centuries and how that means his/human slow decrease of perfection is something else. It is interesting that, as far as i know, Bible has no reports about how his long life looks in details and to tell us something about his decrease of mental, intellectual, spiritual and other features.

    I think, if we talk about the amount, quantity of imperfection in a human, then it has nothing to do with some length in years (6000). The distance from Adam's point of perfection to today's man and our imperfection does not mean how with the years that pass from time point A to B (in our example 6,000 years) also increases human imperfections.
    You are imperfect or not. You can not be more imperfect then you are. And also on other hand, if you or Adam  are perfect, you can not be more perfect then you are.
    I am not talking about some skill that we improves with time. And in this case of issue about skill, we can ask; if you are perfect, does this means that all your skills are perfect? Does that means that your perfect skill will be more perfect after 10000 years? On other side if you are imperfect and if you have enough practice and talent your skill will be better, will be "perfect" in some point of time but only to some "highest" point that your imperfect perfection can reach. So, logic how with with the passing of time imperfect human/people become even more imperfect not sound reasonable to me.
    People proved how they made some progress in all segments of life. Question that rises is, in what direction we going and using what we know and have. Perfect devil and perfect Adam and Eve proved that "perfection" are not guarantee for perfect life and all what that suppose to be. Knowledge that was "unknown" to first human, and ability to "differentiate" what is "good and bad" was became possible to them and people after them, only latter, after  they took the  fruit. So, we now  have that sort of knowledge too, what is good and what is bad. With or without Bible. Because Genesis said ,And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." 
    Well, as far as i can see now, our increasing or decreasing in something have some connection with time but not in the religious sense that JWorg explains why mankind  imperfection are bigger today then before and why we are in situation that we have now.   
  6. Haha
  7. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    The daily text example was not as much of an echo of the "6,000 year" doctrine as other examples have been. But it's still not hard to see how so many of the references to and emphasis on 6,000 years still reverberates from the old 1975 issue.
    For one thing, we could compare it with another time expression: such as "2,000 years" ago. We know that this expression must be used a lot because there there are dozens of reasons to use this particular time expression, not just two or three with reference to "6,000 years" ago. It might be used when referring to the birth, life, ministry, words, death and resurrection of Jesus, or the time of the apostles and other Bible writers, or the completion of the Bible itself, or the age of the oldest known extant texts of the Bible, such as the "Dead Sea Scrolls."
    If we look at the Watchtower Library "DVD," which is now a free 2GB download from jw.org, we can see something interesting. Just look up the quoted phrases "6,000 years" and "six thousand years" and then compare this to "2,000 years" and "two thousand years." A quick click-through survey of a hundred or more examples of each tells a very interesting story. Over a long period, we get almost the same number of results for 6,000 years as we do for 2,000 years, but with much more consistent content in the 6,000 years examples. (Most of the 2,000 year examples are not specifically about Jesus, but about age of dead sea scrolls, when Paul wrote a specific verse, or the completion of the Bible canon.)
    But we can probably boil it down to the essence by looking at the numbers of references to each expression from the years 1968 to 1976, when it was NOT equal and we can pretty much know the reason for this without even looking.
      6,000 yr 2,000 yr 1968 21 4 1969 16 5 1970 12 5 1971 6 1 1972 10 2 1973 7 3 1974 13 1 1975 22 7 1976 13 2
    Now for just a few more recent examples:
    *** w18 January p. 26 par. 19 What Kind of Love Brings True Happiness? ***
    19 After some 6,000 years of human misery, Satan’s world is coming to its end. *** w12 9/15 Peace for a Thousand Years—And Beyond! ***
    [Study Questions]
    1. What exciting prospect awaits the “great crowd”?
    2. What have humans experienced during the past 6,000 years?
    3. What will the Thousand Year Reign bring about?
    *** ws12 10/15 pp. 15-16 par. 2 Obey God and Benefit From His Sworn Promises ***
    The Bible does not tell us exactly when it started. But we know that it started sometime after Adam’s wife, Eve, was created about 6,000 years ago. The thousand years of Christ’s reign will soon begin, and during this time God will fulfill his purpose for the earth. God wants the earth to be a paradise where perfect humans can live forever. (Genesis 1:27, 28; Revelation 20:6) You can be sure that you can have that happy future! “God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred.” This was a promise that no matter what happened, God would make sure that his purpose would come true by the end of his rest day. *** w10 1/15 p. 32 par. 18 Jehovah’s Way of Ruling Vindicated! ***
    And consider, Satan has been causing harm for some 6,000 years, but God, through Christ, will undo all that harm within 1,000 years! Many of the other dozens of references also mention that we've had six thousand years of human rule and therefore it's time for Christ's rule. True statement, but the connection of six thousand and one thousand recurs more often than not.
    What we do less of now is taking our supposed knowledge to the level of just showing off. We have no idea if our promoted chronology is exactly correct, and we know for a fact that most of the years through the Neo-Babylonian period do not match any of the evidence. Yet we would say things like this:
    *** w89 8/1 p. 10 par. 2 God Purposes That Man Enjoy Life in Paradise ***
    This occurred some 6,000 years ago, in the year 4,026 before our Common Era, according to the count of time given in the Holy Bible. It occurred in the land area of what is today known as Turkey, or in the southwestern part of what is now called Asia, somewhere in the neighborhood of the Euphrates River and the Tigris River, and thus in the northern half of our earthly globe. The time would be about October 1, since mankind’s most ancient calendars began counting time near that date. Really? October 1st? This is what I meant by "gnosis" or "falsely called knowledge." We don't really know if 4026 BCE is right, much less October 1.
    This itself echoes the presumptuous way that the earlier Watch Tower publications speak of chronology, such as in the May 1881 issue referred to recently:
    The favor of the present (and which we believe will end in October, 1881) is not to the nominal church but to individuals in her, that they may come out and receive the present Lord. . . . Now, it was on the strength of this prophetic "shadow"which shows that the "door" would not close until this fall, that we said, the living would not be changed before that time. As to when our change is due we can only say: To our understanding it will be due at any time after October 2nd, 1881 . . .  Really? Not a minute before October 2nd? 
    *** w79 9/15 p. 24 par. 11 The “Cup” That All Nations Must Drink at God’s Hand ***
    But the reason simply is that about October 4/5, 1914, or 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem after the Babylonian conquest, the Gentile Times of uninterrupted world domination ended. Jehovah God did not then set up at earthly Jerusalem “Jehovah’s throne” for an earthly heir of King David to occupy it, thus reviving the typical earthly kingdom of God. *** w75 11/1 p. 661 par. 15 The Time for Choosing God as Sovereign ***
    since the year 1914 C.E. In that year “the times of the Gentiles,” or, “the appointed times of the nations,” ended about October 4/5, when counted from the desolation of Jerusalem and the land of Judah by the Babylonians in the year 607 B.C.E. Really? October 4/5, 1914 was 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem? We can't even find evidence for the year 607 B.C.E. and yet we want to put a specific day which happens not to even coincide with Jerusalem's destruction, where all the known evidence, Biblical and secular, points to the summer of about 587 B.C.E.
     
  8. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Here is one thing to consider ... the Earth itself is about 3.5 BILLION years old, from the time it became a molten target for what is called "The Great Bombardment" of meteors as gravity sucked up almost all the material in the solar system into piles we call planets.
    There are six creative days, and one "Day of Rest".  A total of seven "days".
    3.5 billion ..... divided by 7,  is 0.5
    That would mean the "Day of Rest" would be 1/2 Billion years long. (  For those in Rio Linda, that is 500 million years...).
    This is a theory that agrees with Genesis ( if you view it from the perspective of an observer standing on the Earth, or where it would eventually be .... ), all the Fossil HARD EVIDENCE that exists by the hundreds of thousands of metric tons,  Geology, Physics, and all the sciences that we know ABSOLUTELY to be unarguably true. (If you are sane ...).
    Get your calculator, some paper to make sketches on and take notes and re-read Genesis using a creative day being 500,000,000 years, and see how that solves MANY theological quandarys.
    .... it even solves the "problem" of who Cain married in the land of exile. ( Although he was the son of "Homo Theocraticus" humans directly created by God, the "Homo Sapians" people who had evolved before that were living all over the Earth by this time ... ).
    However, unfortunately for professional theologians of all ilk, It DOES NOT generate an artificial sense of urgency, or scare you out of your wallets.
     
  9. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    There are, of course. There have been several references as late as 1989 that, as Witnesses, we are involved in a work that will end before the end of the twentieth century (before 2000/2001). This time prediction became obsolete only about 18 years ago, and the predictions for such a date continued until 1989. "Echos" of that prediction continued until about 1993. -- I grabbed the following from https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/20th-century-2000.php
    The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216
    "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." Watchtower 1984 Mar 1 pp.18-19
    "Some of that "generation" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that!" "Let Your Kingdom Come" (1981) p.102
    But now in our 20th century, we have come to the time for harvest, "a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels"! Watchtower 1989 Jan 1 p.12
    "He was laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century."  
    And there is still a more subtle kind of obsession among some brothers who think it is important for us to consider that we are "some 6,000 years" removed from human perfection in Eden. In fact it was the opening line of today's "Text."
    *** Text for Friday, September 7, 2018 ***
    We must consider that all of us are some 6,000 years removed from the human perfection that existed in Eden. Although the fact might be interesting, what is it that makes this particular number of years something that we "must consider"? There is nothing in the Bible, no evidence anywhere, that this particular number of years has any significance. Yet, most JWs are at least vaguely aware that it is used as a "sign" that we are deep into the end. We are led to believe that there is some kind of gnostic privilege that only Witnesses truly know the significance of. 
    Yet there is only one reason why 6,000 specifically is considered. It is because, without any Bible evidence, we have taught that the 7th creative day should be 7,000 years long, and that Christ's millennial reign must punctuate this 7th creative day, and therefore begin 6,000 years after the creation of Eve in Eden.
    Using the 6,000 years as a gnostic sign that the end is upon is has been part of the Watchtower's doctrines since the 1800's when the Watchtower first started to be published. The "Photo Drama of Creation" also made a point of showing how each creative day was 7,000 years long, and the 7th creative day would end with Christ's Millennium, and thus the Millennium had "dawned" at the 48,000th year from the start of creation, which had just passed in 1873. The end of the 49,000 years would start a Great Jubilee of perfection. None of this is Biblical, but pieces of it are still echoed in the focus on the idea that we are now "some 6,000" years after Eden, and that this is something we "must consider."
    The "Proclaimers" book adds:
    *** jv chap. 8 p. 104 Declaring the Good News Without Letup (1942-1975) ***
    The Witnesses had long shared the belief that the Thousand Year Reign of Christ would follow after 6,000 years of human history. But when would 6,000 years of human existence end? The book Life Everlasting—In Freedom of the Sons of God, released at a series of district conventions held in 1966, pointed to 1975. The book "Life Everlasting" just mentioned had said on page 28 and 30:
    According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. . . . How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath. . . . It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible as the reign of Christ Jesus over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. So, for as long as the idea is put out there that we "must consider" the significance of 6,000 years, it will always carry with it this same idea found in one of the Awake! articles leading up to 1975:
    *** g68 10/8 p.14 What Will the 1970s Bring?
    There is another way that helps confirm that we are living in the final years of this "time of the end." The Bible shows that we are nearing the end of a full 6,000 years of human history. That statement is meaningless unless combined with the non-Biblical gnosis about a conjectured 7,000-year-long 7th day.
  10. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Jesus.defender in Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Past tense since the watchtower predicted armageddon so many times?
     
    1877 'The End Of This World; that is the end of the gospel and the beginning of the millennial age is nearer than most men suppose; indeed we have already entered the transition period, which is to be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation Dan. 12:3." (N.H. Barbour and C.T. Russell, Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World, p. 17).
     
    1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
     
    1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
     
    1894 "Seventeen years ago people said, concerning the time features presented in Millennial Dawn, They seem reasonable in many respects, but surely no such radical changes could occur between now and the close of 1914: if you had proved that they would come about in a century or two, it would seem much more probable. What changes have since occurred, and what velocity is gained daily? 'The old is quickly passing and the new is coming in.' Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures-nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Zion's Watchtower, Can It Be Delayed until 1914? C. T. Russell July 15, 1894, Also in Watchtower Reprints, l894 p. 1677)
     
    1894 "A few more years will wind up the present order of things, and then the chastened world will stand face to face with the actual conditions of the established Kingdom of God. And yet the course of the Church is to be finished within the space of time that intervenes." (Watchtower p. 56, 1894)
     
    1894 "We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower July 15, 1894, p 266; p 1677 reprints)
     
    1917 'There will be no slip-up...Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925' (Watchtower Oct. 15, 1917, p. 6157)
     
    1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)

    1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)

    1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)
     
    1966 "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E Six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yea within this generation. The rein of Christ...to run parallel with the 7th millennium ..." (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 1966, p. 29-30)
     
    1966 "Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. 'The new book compels us to realise that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed,' said a conventioneer." (Watchtower 15/10/1966, p 629)
     
    1968 "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" … "What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion." (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494)
  11. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    In my own experience, I was born in '57, baptized 10 years later, and had to read the "Life Everlasting" book as one of the two books assigned for baptismal candidates, along with the "Lamp" book questions. I auxiliary pioneered for several months in 1972, and quit school to regular pioneer for 3.5 years from 1973 until leaving for Brooklyn Bethel, where I worked full-time for 4 years, and then part-time, on projects, for another two while going to college in NYC.
    I give this portion of my "resume" only because I can speak to the experience of being baptized prior to 1975, and was part of the Bethel build-up from the influx of workers and financial contributions that Bethel received around 1975. I pioneered for several years both before and after 1975.
    Your experience may vary, but I can still tell you pretty much what I was thinking just prior to 1975, because I had to clear my plans with my parents, my school, and two circuit overseers, since I quit school while I was still 15 to begin regular pioneering in 1973.
  12. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    I have known several people disfellowshipped and reinstated multiple times.
    Forget about them for just two minutes .... what is the effect on US who deal with it?
    There is another word that we do not use to describe this cruel, brutal shunning practice by:
    1.) Loving our Family unconditionally,  (assuming they are in fact lovable...) if they are approved by the Congregation Elders;
    2.) Abhor them and treat them like they were dead if they are NOT approved by the Congregation Elders;
    3.) Loving our Family unconditionally, if they are approved by the Congregation Elders;
    4.) Abhor them and treat them like they were dead if they are NOT approved by the Congregation Elders;
    5.) Loving our Family unconditionally,  if they are approved by the Congregation Elders;
    6.) Abhor them and treat them like they were dead if they are NOT approved by the Congregation Elders;
    etc., etc. etc.
    Being able to flip your emotions completely on and off ... on and off ... on and off like a light switch ... which is what we have been trained year after year to do .... through shunning ...
    ..... is INSANE!
    I firmly believe THIS is what the Bible says when it uses the phrase "... the love of the greater number will cool off".  It does NOT pertain to worldly people.
    It applies to US.
     
     
     
  13. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    I agree "shunned" is a term we Witnesses don't generally use, but a non Witness will know what it means in practice; that the person in question will be ignored, and avoided. This was clearly encouraged by the video, where the mother ignored her daughter's telephone call. What if it had been an emergency? 
  14. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    I agree about moving on ... but not forgetting the indelible lessons cruelly burned into our bodies and souls as if with  fire, by those who intended to rule wisely ... but who, above all else ... intended ....... and still intend .......  to rule.
    They CANNOT be fired ... and they know it.
  15. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    Meanwhile .... during construction of World HQ, at Bethel Warwick Infirmiry ....

  16. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Anna:
    Oh yeah ... I had forgotten about THOSE crazy years ... because I never believed any of that .... but I did get caught, BIG TIME, in the "1975" fiasco, even though during the run-up to 1975 I openly ridiculed it ... right there at the end, I reasoned, in the fall of 1974
    "How could I be right, and everybody else ... people I respected, loved  and cared about .... everybody ... be WRONG? ( About the end coming in 1975)."
    It did not seem probable to me that EVERYBODY (In the Truth) was wrong so I quit the best job I ever had, in Zaire, the Congo, to be back home with my Mom and Dad in Virginia, when "the END came".
    To this day, Brothers and Sisters "swear" that never happened .....  but in the  Watchtower, March 15, 1980 issue , paragraphs 17 and 18 ONE TIME admitted that they did say that ... in the book "Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God".
    I did not find out about that "soft admission of culpability" until Mr. Google and I became good friends, many, many years later ... but long before that I learned to trust my own instincts over that of anything the Society said or published.
    If they are wrong, only we down here at the bottom have to pay the price for their error.
    If they permanently screw up our lives ... they pay no price whatsoever.
  17. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    It has been less than an hour since I posted the above parody ... but someone from another State called me to ask "Is this FOR REAL?"
    Of course it is not .... it's a PARODY .... but the very sad thing is, that things have gotten so goofy, among the Witness culture ... that a highly intelligent person is stunned ... and had to ask that question.
    I mean ... after you go through the "Overlapping Generations" explanation ... ANYTHING is possible.
  18. Sad
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Queen Esther in HUNGER IN VENEZUELA   
    VERY  SAD,  WATCHING  THIS
    I  SAW  THAT  PICTURE  WITH  FOOD,  WE  CAN  SEND  INTO  THE  POOR  AREA'S....
    ALSO  NICARAGUA  AND  STILL  MANY  OTHER  POOR  COUNTRIES !! 

    LET'S  PRAY  FOR  ALL  PLEASE      THANK  YOU 
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in New Light: Fruitage Does Not Refer to Results   
    The article was OK ... until paragraphs 9 and 10, if memory serves .....
    It was OK after that.
    Paragraphs 9 and 10 were  the most convoluted mish-mash I ever read to try and Biblically justify .. WHICH IT DID NOT ... that the plain common sense observation that sometimes a Farmers' BEST efforts do not produce a crop ... as there may not be enough rain, or there is too much rain, or hailstones destroy the crop .... or insects eat the crop ... or perhaps rocky soil was all there was to plant on in the first place.
    OK... I understand that ... "STUFF HAPPENS".  Everybody that knows about farming understands that.
    It always has .... and always will.
    ... but to propose such convoluted and specious  reasoning to explain why globally there is a DECREASE in active Jehovahs' Witnesses by over 700,000 publishers last year, after spending about TWO BILLION hours "sewing seed", is solid evidence that they are MANIPULATING Scriptures to try and support the idea that there is a reasonable Biblical explanation of all of this going on.
    It is plain common sense.
    The "scriptural explanation" is pure garbage, and makes no sense at all.
    If you twist ideas into pretzels with word gymnmastics in the World, it is called deception.
    They have to have about 18 numbered paragraphs in every Watchtower to fill the pages of an article to meet the timing requirements of the Watchtower Study.
    It is of no avail if you fill it in with paragraphs 9 and 10, which are garbage reasoning, and unadulterated lying.
    It is such blatent and brazen cluelessness that I was able to write this entirely from memory.
    ...perhaps it was paragraphs 10 and 11 ... whichever has the least actual  "grain" of truth.
     
     
     
  20. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?   
    ....with elders' and WT'  helping hand.
  21. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?   
    YES! If elders have interest to Imitate Jesus they will do exactly this, to search for the lost sheep - Mat.18:12-14:   “What do you think? If a man has 100 sheep and one of them strays,+ will he not leave the 99 on the mountains and set out on a search for the one that is straying?+ 13  And if he finds it, I certainly tell you, he rejoices more over it than over the 99 that have not strayed. 14  Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my* Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.
  22. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?   
    As you said, "semantic trap" is a great tool for such things :))
  23. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?   
    Idiots and idiotic rules exist in every society. Here in Zagreb, one baker freely shared to poor people the excess of bread and rolls that he did not sell on that day in front of his workshop. Inspectors punished him for $ 5,000 for that. Namely, the law says that unsold bakery products must be thrown into the garbage????!!! Common sense tell me where are you living?!
    https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/pekar-qenaj-koji-dijeli-besplatno-kruh-nakon-kazne-ponos-hrvatske-46041
  24. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?   
    "Wrongly Disfellowshipped People"
    I was looked  at this title of post again  and again. I feel how something is not right with this choice of words. And finally get to answer why  and what bothered me. 
    Word "Wrongly" is  completely wrong. The elders pray before the meeting. They were "spiritually guided", or "inspired" if you like. This means there is no mistake, there is no wrong conclusion and decision.
    To admit that some of the decisions were wrong would ruin their authority. And if you can not believe the elders ... whom you can trust then?
    ;))))
  25. Confused
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?   
    Looks like you're gonna work a lot of popcorn....because the replies will not come for a long time ...
    if it ever will!? :))
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