Srecko Sostar

...... Believing that agenda driven  clueless cruelty is a "loving provision" takes a LOT of faith in the PEOPLE pushing that viewpoint for the enhancement  and consolidation of their authority.
Plus, having great fear that non-compliance to "The Agenda" will make you next to be caught in its grip.
..... believing that you are NOT looking at a duck does not require an Einstein to figure it out.
If it looks like a duck .... walks like a duck .... and quacks like a duck ..... IT'S A DUCK!
It only requires that you be honest with yourself at what you are looking at.
Cruelty, mis-labeled ... is STILL cruelty.
 
 

To both @Srecko Sostar and @Space Merchant
Thanks for the clarification, both of you, and I didn't mean to get you to rehash this same conversation. I remember this particular one, although I didn't take so much of an interest in it because it seemed that Srecko Sostar had made some gullibility mistakes and Space Merchant had correctly pointed that out. I thought that might be the thread you were speaking about. But when you, Space Merchant, had worded what you said about a certain one of his December 2017 claims being forever immortalized, I thought I had missed a followup thread or some of the posts from that thread that had perhaps been deleted, as you said. I was interested because you made it sound as if it were much more sinister of a problem than I had recalled. I remember the excellent research you put into that rebuttal for both Witness and Srecko. But I understand where you are coming from, and I understand that Srecko has learned something from you. I had never looked into some of the information you provided there, Space Merchant, and I appreciated it, too. I personally had looked at "Six Screens of the Watchtower" a couple times, a couple years ago, and thought it was one of the worst of the anti-JW sites for its lack of accuracy. What a waste of time.
Just an aside, but when a person sees he has made a mistake, no longer believes fully in a specific point he has made, and he or she removes the mistaken, confusing post for that reason, I think this can be the right course of action.

It not surprised me that people came to such conclusion about some JW practice and doctrines..

Yes. I am aware that this happens. But remember that we are discussing a special case where, let's say, you now have children that your mother would like to visit. In this case, as much as she might want to be able to shun you completely, she now needs to make contact with you to get the necessary permission.
Some parents are probably angry at the fact that a child who is now DFd has ruined their reputation as a good, exemplary parent who raises God-fearing children. Mothers lose as much "reputation" as fathers  (or even more) in this situation, and anger is a way to eclipse the natural affection we should have been born with. I have heard of parents and siblings and others in the congregation who will literally spit on the ground in the direction of the DFd person. The Watchtower magazine in the past has implied that there might even be a desire by the parents to kill such children. A Watchtower article that came out when my parents were first considering having children made it sound as if parents would need a reminder not to kill their apostate child:
*** w52 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***
In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?—P. C., Ontario, Canada. We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. “Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.”—Deut. 13:6-11, AS. Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. The article makes it sound as if we should be disappointed that we don't live in a "theocratic" nation like Saudi Arabia, or under a Taliban-like rule where we could still kill our children. The closest consolation the same article could offer was the following:
The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors . . . . Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped. I'm reminded of this more recent article where the idea of shunning is conspicuous by its absence:
*** w01 10/15 p. 14 par. 10 Who Will Separate Us From God’s Love? ***
Some Christian parents have been accused of hating their children because of not allowing them to accept medical procedures that violate God’s law or not letting them engage in pagan celebrations. . . . Some opposers have spread slanderous lies in the media, even falsely accusing Jehovah’s Witnesses of being a dangerous cult.  

Last year i meet my mother on street, first time after my living JW. I said, "Hello mom" . Mom turn her face and she passed by me.
Also my brothers, siblings did the same. 
About what "honor" we talking about? :))
..... this say ...if she are not going to attend cong. meeting then  outcome, solution will be....???  call roadside assistance!
Image! External form! And what would other (who had influence) do about!
This kinds of reasons are not fascinating at all. Not to me.

Please, first of all, for my understanding of your position on issue, give me definition what in fact means "to be spirit directed"???
1) How single person is spirit directed?
2) How  group of people is spirit directed?
3) How (in this case Watchtower inc.) Company is spirit directed?

No, they had not been dfd for knowing the truth. They had  been DFD for not obeying WT leaders and their explanation what is the truth. "1914 generation" and "generation"  WT explanations versions  from then until today are questionable, and by that to be called "truth" is not recommended. By that DFD members, who had been in disagree with past, old  explanation/s, and  had "advanced explanation" that was later WT put in legal use, are not in benefit in no way.       

Good questions Srecko Sostar!
Since the GB, through the February 2017 Watchtower has actually ADMITTED what was so very painfully obvious, with terrible and sustained real world consequences for those that trusted them TO HAVE COMMON SENSE, that they are NOT inspired of God, and are NOT infallible ... what is "spirit directed" ??
It seems to me that anyone with a real, developed conscience that parallels Scripture ... is in fact "spirit directed".
... ANYONE AT ALL !
I am going to make some popcorn ..... the replies should be interesting !

Unfortunately, the FIRST responsibility of Witch Doctors. Shamans, Priests, Clergy, Elders, and THE Governing Body ... is to protect their own jobs, power and authority, real estate, and money.
This is how religions have ALWAYS evolved, once they start accumulating real estate and piles of money ... and start dressing well.
We are NOT the exception.

I often chalk up your statements as hyperbole-laden rants. But this I must agree with whole-heartedly. One can make an argument that our process is actually Biblical, but then Jesus said it was OK to throw out some of those legalistic principles in favor of love and mercy.

Mr JW  Insider this down is my comment in full version as respond to Space Merchant. Judge by yourself what is it. All of us as private or legal persons/entities have NUMBER. And that is what i try to show  to SM. Who gave us number? For what purpose? For what sort of work?
About Glasgow video. Yes that was my mistake. I was relied to much on those who put that video, not in full length. Second problem is my English and to not listen more carefully. Mea culpa with smile! :)) Would somebody stoned me because it? People on responsible positions in WT making many and much more worst  errors on global level for at least 8 000 000 people. How many looked my deleted post? And with what response, with what consequences for their life? Thanks for reading this! 
 
So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.
I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))
 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1
http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225
https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4
 

I am beginning to believe that ALL the Scriptures in the Bible, talking about how the "love of the greater number will cool off", and in the end times, a wide range of cruelties will be abundant, that it is talking about what is going on INSIDE the "Truth" ... not the world.
We have been thoroughly trained, year after year after year ... to be able to turn family love and affection on and off ....on and off ..... on and off, with the "light switch" of disfellowshipping.
We deeply love our families ... unless they get disfellowshipped ... then they are invisible, and in effect cease to exist.
If they are reinstated, we are taught to flip the switch and turn those affections back on ... at least in theory.
It is insane in theory .... and insane in actual practice.
This is cruel, mean, extreme, despicable,  hateful, and hypocritical .... and does not lend itself to sane thinking.
These policies over time can erode and  destroy a civilization, theocratic or secular.
Even the Russkies understand that!

I am sorry, Grey Reformer, but your text is too small for my 71 year old eyes to read, and I don't need anyone to "review" for your approval what is general and common knowledge. 
When I find my reading glasses, I will try again to go through your material ... but one thing I have learned over the years ... the probability of someone's words being valid and topically important DECREASES with the quantity of words used.
I agree with the need for disfellowshipping ... my objection is to the cruelty in HOW it is practiced, and that there is NEVER, EVER any "extenuating circumstances" that would legitimately call for mercy.

The problem is, that Grey Reformer is too lacking in general knowledge of what has been going on around him (or her) to reform anything.
Before you can fix a problem ... you have to know there IS a problem.

Please tell me how this accomplished.  To think that the organization is spirit-directed belittles God's power in light of its failed teachings.  You do realize there are a plethora of failed teachings, don’t you?
Is God and Jesus too weak to provide direction with clarity?  Are they responsible for the vagueness in teachings that are the historical trademark of the organization?

Yes, but Ray Franz left behind two very detailed biographies of his experiences and observations .... which at least one is available on Amazon.com, or, with a little searching, you might be able to get either or both off the Internet for free in PDF or EPUB format. 
You should research these things for yourself, and not rely on others,  whose information may be distorted by being second-hand information.
Waterboarding is very effective, in most cases, and has the advantage that it does not leave any documentable  marks ....
By not allowing any representation, witnesses, recordings, or notes in disfellowshipping trials, completely secret ... the Society does not need to waterboard anyone to avoid any tell-tale evidence of iron fists in a velvet glove. 
For it's intended purpose, without ever showing mercy of any kind, the system works perfectly, now.
 

not know personally
even when I know someone personally
everyone online is a liar
open with that assumption
sometimes I have my doubts about you
.... or similar quotes, no matter who said it, it is in general use, and not originated by Mr TTH.
Yes, we are living in such atmosphere of human interactions where  suspicion, mistrust, and the possibility of being deceived is the reality of every society on Earth. This is/was present in every particle of time to this day.  
What do you think? Did Jesus  have similar/same thoughts and feelings about 12, and even Judas till the his final betrayal, in that short period of "privately knowing each other"?  And what Jesus decided to make it, to do about it? What are His (public or private or tacit) comments about them? Bible is very, very short about that. Wonder why? Perhaps He was so above  of commenting other this way? Oh, how i I want to be like him! But always miss the goal, intent. Some good thoughts from books of E.M Remarque comes to my mind now.  
It doesn't matter what name some of us put in such context. 
But to continue to be "moron" for some of my readers, this time i will put my signature on letter (as Paul has his) 
hehehe:))))) 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:17 New International Version (NIV)
17 I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write.
 

These are ordinary enough expressions that it is hardly to be expected that they are original. Still, the only one not (to me) when I posted it was: sometimes I have my doubts about you.

Look, Miss Librarian!!! He’s doing it again! Make him stop!

Hmmmm....I personally think TTH, JTR, Strecko, Space Merchant, and even Witness are genuine in what they say. Includes you of course.
Does that make me naive?

It is my considered analysis that the Egyptian Pyramids were constructed by persons having the ability to manipulate the Quantum states of matter, to circumvent the normal classical Physics of which we are familiar.
To this day, no one knows how the gigantic stones of the Great Pyramid were lifted into place, and placed.
The effort staggers the imagination, but it did happen.  I seriously doubt any engineering and construction company in the world could duplicate that effort. Make them use the tools seemingly in use then, and it would be impossible in less than a thousand years ( you pick a better number ...).
Likewise, although we can ACTUALLY manipulate the "Quantum World" now ... and can make entangled particles that can communicate with others instantaneously across ANY distance, and make tunneling diodes where electricity can get across gaps ... NOT ... traveling the distance between points, (color TVs have them), we cannot make something out of nothing.
Apparently SOME Egyptians had telekinetic, and transmutation skills we do not have today, whether it be Pyramids, or Snakes, or some other things, which seem to bypass physics as we now know it ... and so did Moses.
Remember ... he was part of the Egyptian ruling class ... and educated in Egypt!
Your analysis and results may vary.
Do not try this at home.
 

Shunning is a denial of others right to change their minds.
 

Have Witnesses Gone Shun Crazy?
So, we start with shunning df'd people. Then, they shun those that drift away or become inactive. Then, they shun those that they think are secretly apostate. Going further, some people may be "marked", so they get shunned, too.
Oh but wait! Does it stop there? (nope). When they had the old Theocratic Ministry School, scheduling sisters for talks was ridiculous because you never knew who shunned who. And I recall the idiot elder who said he always approached newcomers to the Hall with caution because they could be Df'd (how's that for welcoming strangers?)
And arranging groups for field service? Good luck with that. You don't know who's shunning who.
I knew a sister who shunned her dad for some personal offense. Too bad he died of a sudden stroke. Tough luck, sis.
Then there was the young sister who shunned the older sister who planned her wedding. Didn't come off like she hoped. No gratitude, I guess.
What next? The Netherlands situation is hilarious. The government keeps pushing JW's to meet up with ex-witnesses and this offends their eager shunning. And Russia? Yeah, too bad about that persecution, huh? Too bad all your shunning undercuts your claim that Witnesses aren't "extreme" - especially in shunning family
This amazing Shun-Fest is encouraged by WORLDLY THINKING ! How do I know? Because the internet encourages bunching together in groups That Always Agree With Each Other. Others stay away !
Example: Got a relative that said something positive about Trump? OMG ! Shun him ! Or shun liberals! Or Antifa ! Or Anti-Antifa ! Get off my Facebook page ! Or Instagram ! Or Twitter!
Welcome to Jehovah's Organization ! Following "the spirit of the world" !

I forgot to include JW Celebrities.... Where should I place them? Hmmm