Srecko Sostar

I hope he is!
Absurdity NEEDS to be lampooned, and ridiculed ... or absurdity becomes the accepted norm, and pockets of civilization become nations of fools.

.... some people naturally ARE (shudder!), vegetarians.
That is what Able was doing when Cain came in ... having a Bar-B-Que Garden party. Cain was a really bad hunter ...and later the American Indians invented a word for "bad hunter".
... "vegetarian".

You better hurry up, you only have a few weeks left to come up with something

..So long, and thanks for all the fish!

hehe, while making barbecue for friends in garden party ? :))

  hi·er·ar·chy noun noun: hierarchy; plural noun: hierarchies a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

Edit:
 

How does it usually begin?   With calculations.   Before you know it, a date emerges.  Read between the lines in the December 15, 2003 Watchtower, pp. 14-19.  Of course, the understanding of “this generation” has changed since then; so, stay tuned.  Or not. I would rather you not. "Leave them alone! They are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit.”  Matt 15:14
They can’t help themselves, since their focus is on the earthly, contrary to all of Christ’s warnings.  They have concerned themselves with the “times and the seasons” since the beginning, all the while promising peace and security within “Jehovah’s organization”.
“But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.” 1 Thess 5:1-3
 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’  and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret (Bible calculations) the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.  A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.  Matt 16:2-4
2 Thess 2:9,10; Rev 13:13,14
“But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.”
“Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.  We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.”
“For who knows a person's thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”
1 Cor 2:14,12,13,11
Surely, it is clear that human wisdom, the spirit of the world, was used to calculate 1975 and all previous failed dates.  One date, 1914, requires human wisdom to keep the date alive; thus, the “overlapping generation” was invented.  When an anointed one is guided by God’s Holy Spirit, human wisdom does not come into play.  That is Satan’s field.  James 3:13-16; 2 Cor 11:4
“Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says:
You will listen and listen,
but never understand;
you will look and look,
but never perceive.
 For this people’s heart has grown callous;
their ears are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears, and
understand with their hearts,
and turn back—
and I would heal them.  Matt 13:14,15
 

What is it then? The organization wants unquestioned loyalty, but when it goofs up that's on individual JWs? You can't have it both ways. It's a contradiction. This isn't the only time that the org plays two sides of the coin.
It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs. That's the implication from that convention video. Any active JW knows the organization is tightly controlled, and those at the top are in control of the wheel. WT literature promoted 1975 as an end-date and endorsed JWs who sold off property and made life adjustments in expectation of it. JWs who believed in an impending end and made major life adjustments did exactly what the WT encourages JWs to do today: "Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed."
So, what did we learn from the 1975 failure? How is our situation today any different than it was 42 years ago? JWs continue to hang onto the words of the GB like gospel, and that attitude is still promoted in our literature. The GB was wrong about 1975, but ultimately people moved on. But as our time is reduced in this system, our decisions have greater weight, so correct direction matters more.

serious statement for serious students and those who are not serious  
Bold text said ...To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end.
:))))) 1975 ... and today is year 2017 at the end. 2017-1975= 42 years 
42 is interesting number, perhaps some type and antitype is possible to get from 42  
 

the "current" understanding is all it can ever be until it has passed, and then we "will know accurately", just as we "are accurately known".

Thanks for providing what you did. You left a few relevant things out, which would give the fuller picture, but what you included was especially interesting in the change from 1962/3 to 1968. Suddenly in 1968, speculation was encouraged as a sign that a Bible student was serious. And that approved speculation was expected to spread like wildfire among serious Bible students because it about something so important.
The answer to those questions from paragraph two became the conclusion of the article:
*** w68 8/15 p. 499 par. 28 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
Thus, through a careful independent study by dedicated Bible scholars who have pursued the subject for a number of years, and who have not blindly followed some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, we have arrived at a date for Adam’s creation that is 22 years more distant in the past than Ussher’s figure. This means time is running out two decades sooner than traditional chronology anticipates. . . . That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher’s figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind!
ADAM CREATED AT CLOSE OF “SIXTH DAY”
30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
 
It's the textbook definition of a call for speculation. No one was "coerced" to speculate. But they were told that it was the appropriate thing to be doing if you were among "serious Bible students" This very material was admitted to be "fuel" for the imagination that produced speculation like a wildfire.
 
 

There is not a glossary of terms at the end of the Bible that a person can peruse to get the correct sense of Hebrew and Greek words. It is really left up to us to decide what words or phrases mean. Most people do not have the inclination, time, or mental acuity to spend countless hours reading and researching ancient words and phrases and as such we deffer to trusted individuals to do that for us. 
Generation has different meaning depending upon the context. The current OPINION of the Faithful and Discrete slave is that generations refers to overlapping groups of people. At one time it included those individuals who were alive in 1914, which made sense back in the day when there were many folks in that group. Not that that group has dwindled significantly it makes sense to revise the definitions of generation in light of current facts. This may change some time in the future. Only time will tell. 

Here are at least two things.
WT wants that theirs literature to be expand at maximum, in all places, to all people. So if I receive WT magazine from JW member, or find a magazine on the road, or on JW library, I read it and give it to my neighbor to read the same magazine... Does WT get angry about fact that I was without WT knowledge gave their magazine to other people, shared it and talked about content with other people ?? What "legal rights"  they have on that?? NO rights.
But in second thing. If i used their content (get it legally from public sources, as in first example) as whole or as part and to share my opinion on subject with other people... what "legal rights" they have to stop me to do that?? NO rights. 
But they have lawyers and money. And that is answer. Not some fantomic freedom of speech or human rights. Who have power and money he have "rights" and "law" but where is Justice?
is it Justice that WT spread doctrines and no one can said nothing contrary to that? :)))))))

in many examples about doctrinal and instructional things about which we can discuss and about people giving opinions and critics or opposite standpoint than WT have, we do not need to copy/paste all article or book because of "fear" how some critics of WT text are "out of context" in producing opposite view of some WT teaching. 
Some sentences (or even one alone) as part of bigger context can stay for itself as very clear and independent thought of author. With no misunderstanding what particular sentence cary as message, as teaching, as instruction to members. We do not need to always repeat, in writing or in verbal expression, all articles or public talk from GB members, to give prove how we are "In Context" of original text.
Critical look on WT Doctrine is not something that need to be stoped by Law. Because we have more powerful Bible permission on this issue: "TEST the Spirits!" How do you expect that me or you exercise this TESTING if I/you are not allowed by WT, who using hand of secular law, to stop people in their expression about issues that is problematic or are contrary to their conscience or understanding.
WT proved how they are itself as organization, changing all the time so called "bible based teachings" and by that , publicly show that they are not promoting "The Truth" but just human opinion on what truth may/can be, possible is.    
About JW and Jw. In our language (Croatian) grammatical rules are such that J is big first letter and w is small letter. Always been and stayed. No matter of US changing. The only changed Watchtower (magazine) from Kula stražara to Stražarska kula. And KH of JW, because of some grammar clearance of meaning.  
        

Question: does the governing body expect the rank and file to view the overlapping generation as doctrine?

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia are working with Scientology, the Unification Church, Mormons and others in a joint political effort to lobby the Russian Duma (similar to the US Congress) for certain issues. The name of this joint political lobby in Russua is: Public Committee for the Defense of Freedom of Conscience." Compared with the cults, we had few resources; we were very small and our funding was nil. Their strength was multi plied, because many of them arrived at a sort of mutual understanding, and an exchange of strategic information began among Scientology, ISKCON, the Unifi cation Church, "The Family" (formerly Children of God ), and lately the Jehovah's Witnesses - and this does not include several smaller sects. Their cooperation quickly became obvious when the first negative reports appeared about cults in the Russian media. In response, editors began to receive virtually identical letters of protest with packages of documents from all of the above mentioned groups. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Mr. Yakunin, a former priest under the Moscow Patriarchate, was defrocked in 1994 for grossly violating the canons of the Church. When he was not re-elected to the Duma in 1996, he founded a private nonprofit organization known as the "Public Committee for the Defense of Freedom of Conscience." The Committee immediately went about seeking donations from various destructive cults, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, Unification Church, and Scientology. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Later some 30 Scientologists and ISKCON members joined the lawsuit with charges of their own. When it became clear that the Church supported my case and that the implications for their public relations efforts were not good (Russian public opinion remembers very well when the Church was placed in the dock in the Communist show trials), some of the Scientologists and ISKCON members dropped their charges against me. However, some statements still remained. Scientology, ISKCON, the Unification Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, "The Family," and other cults took a very active role in the court proceedings: they always were present, providing translations, materials, interpreters, legal advice, witnesses, video and audio recording, etc. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html ... in the lawsuit. Interestingly, none of the groups mentioned in the booklet gave the Com mittee the power of attorney to act on its behal f : The Committee's top executives, Lev Levinson and Mikhail Osadchev, said that they represented an "indef in ite num ber of people - members of new religious movements ." When they were told that there are no "indefinite number of people" in court, they then announced that they were acting on behalf of all religious orga nizations mentioned in Dvorkin 's booklet (with the exception of Aum Shinrikyo, the White Brotherhood, Peoples Temple, and Branch Davidians), namely: ISKCON, the Scientology organization, the Unification Church, the Mother of God Center, the International Churches of Christ, The Family, the Church of the Last Testament, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints (Mormons ), and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah 's Wit nesses) - a ll of which were offended by the booklet and wi ll file their own charges. This bizarre move immediately gave the process quite a grotesque twist. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Eventua ll y only Eileen Barker and James Richardson came. Massimo Intro vigne and Gordon Melton sent written statements. Numerous witnesses took the stand - more than 2 0 o n behalf of the plaintiffs and over 25 for the defendants. From the plaintiffs' side came witnesses who were members of the fo ll owing cults: ISKCON, Scientology, the Unification Church, and Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, members of ISKCON and the Unification Church's pet parents' committees, plus Russian and foreign experts, gave evidence. It is noteworthy that all of the experts, including Barker and Richardso n , were asked the fo ll owing question by the de fendants' attorneys: "Can a person be a member of all of the above-mentioned cults at the same time?" Both scholars were warned that their answers would be pub lished o n the Internet, and each tried to avoid giving a direct answer. When pressed, both answered with a f ir m "Yes" - a rather unusual response from persons claiming to be experts in the field of NRMs. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html Their mutual cooperation was clear on September 19 when all of them together picketed the Duma, protesting the passage of the law. http://www.theonet.dk/spirituality/spirit98-11/dvorkin.html The whole paper is worth reading ... but demonstrates that the Jehovah's Witnesses aka Watchtower Society is working together with other religious organizations, such as the Mormons, Moonies, Scientology, etc. to lobby the Duma in a political cooperative joint effort ... My Question: How can the Watchtower Society claim neutrality and separation from Babylon the Great, while at the same time working together with them in political lobby for mutual interests, and working together in lawsuits as co-defendants? What gives here? - Jim W. ADDITIONAL RESOURCES: These show the "Public Committee for the Defense of Freedom of Conscience." involved in various political actions outside the efforts at religious freedom ... such as jointly going against the Russian Federation on the war in Chechnya. While some of the causes are noble, it still shows that by being part of this organization, the Watchtower Society is bringing its policy of neutrality into question: 1. http://archive.tol.cz/transitions/jan99/itowreli.html2. http://balkansnet.org/wib/stats/chechnya.html3. http://prcenter.newmail.ru/news2000/22_feb__report_on_antisemetism_in_russia.htm4. http://www.religiousfreedom.com/links/rf.htm5. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14747 (New York Review) 6. http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_russi1.htm7. Deleted - cited in error 8. http://www.rickross.com/reference/rs/rs28.html (USA accused of using sects in Russia) 9. http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/russia/sir.html (Scientology involvement) 10. http://www.minelres.lv/ngo/russia.htm (NGO's in Russia) 11. http://puckish.arrr.net/articles/consequences.html (Terrorism issues and the Public Committee ...) 12. http://www.jw-media.org/region/europe/russia/english/moscow/e_com980930.htm (liquidation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia) 13. http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification/Talks/Krylova/Krylova-CARP.htm (Unificaton Church / Moonies in Russia) 14. http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/sciroc.htm?FACTNet (Lawsuit against Russia Orthodoxy) 15. http://www.bcis.gov/text/services/asylum/ric/documentation/Belarus.htm (US Foreign Sec. re: former Soviet Union and the JWs.) 16. http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/interreligious/cd31-02.html (Comments by the World Council of Churches)

No. [on the topic of never wanting to admit fault]
That comes from R.Franz in CoC. But nothing in CoC has ever been rebutted, and I have spoken to one member of the Governing Body who said that just because everything he said in the book was true, it's still poison, because the intent is to expose weakness, while love covers a multitude of sins. Two members of the Writing Department, not Governing Body, have said approximately the same thing. One said he never should have written the book, even though everything in it was true. Based on these words of people who worked with him, I find the book to be very credible from a factual standpoint. Also a "Public Relations" office person at Bethel, and personal friend of mine, has talked to me about things he said to outsiders (related to slight admissions of guilt on the part of the WTS in the past) that resulted in problems for himself among "higher-ups" at Bethel.
Also, the person supposedly behind this idea in R.Franz' book is the same person behind the exact same sentiment on never admitting a mistake in the area of child abuse, and I do know for a fact that he, this same GB member (Jaracz),  pulled an article from a magazine on the subject after it had gone to the presses, resulting in a delay for the final publication of that same issue with the article replaced.
Also, I was a "special request" tour guide for Bethel tours requested by outsiders who were not JWs, and who therefore might have included reporters unbeknownst to us. Therefore, I was personally given instructions by D.Sydlik and D.Songer and G.Couch about how to respond to questions that might seem like they are coming from someone who has no right to the answer. These included questions about an expensive press that had lost us millions of dollars and which we had finally decided to scrap, a similar situation with the early computer expenditures, and some bad press that the local Brooklyn Heights civic associations were evidently spreading about pollution fines we had to pay. When such questions came up, I was to say I didn't really know anything about these, even if I did, and if they came up more than once, I was to ask the appropriate persons mentioned above if there was a better answer. On the topic of paying fines for pollution from factory smokestacks, I was to say according to one of the brothers mentioned, that all factories, no matter how careful, will go over the limits now and then, but that the Watch Tower Society was scrutinized much more closely because there are those who are looking for bad press to pin on us. (I had no personal knowledge of any pollution, but I had heard the rumors, and the question was actually being asked.) But another person who was on the GB (Sydlik), when he heard about the suggested answer, was livid that it admitted error of any kind.
And, of course, I have previously mentioned an experience, in a rehearsal for Bethel's "Family Night," while sitting approximately between Bert Schroeder and Merton Campbell, when they decided to make an old brother change the quote in his experience from many years earlier when he said that Bethel factories were once given an award for having the second cleanest factories in Brooklyn, with only Squibb Pharmaceuticals coming in first place. For the actual Family Night production, Schroeder had it changed to: "Both factories received a rating of 100%."
The last two or three paragraphs just go to the credibility, in my opinion, of the tendency not to want to admit even the slightest error. This also fits the sometimes comical ways in which we "adjust" and "clarify" past doctrines so that they are more correct, even if they were ridiculously false in prior explanations. In an article about why we were completely dropping over one-hundred former doctrines, the Watchtower described it in typical fashion:
*** w15 3/15 pp. 8-10 pars. 6-10 “This Is the Way You Approved” ***
Third, consider some of our recent refinements in understanding. For example, our clarified understanding of “the faithful and discreet slave,”. . . . As we might expect, over the years Jehovah has helped “the faithful and discreet slave” to become steadily more discreet.  

Natural, God given conscience   vs.    Artificial, "bible based conscience" imposed by WT interpretations and rules   simple answer.

No TTH... it didn't.
"The End" did NOT come anywhere .... in 1975.
If it had .....  we all would have noticed.

... THAT's why in my last posting, I put "The End" in quotes .... I was not referring to each individual life .... but the end of this system at Armageddon.
Philosophically, when each of us individually dies ... the Universe ceases to exist.
 

Which is the iron and which is the clay?  Scripture, or Watchtower quotes?  Shouldn't all doctrine be supported by scripture?
If you trust the men who support Watchtower history, you certainly will not perceive what the following scripture is telling us.  If you trust God's Word and his clear-cut definition outlined in Deut 18:20 concerning false prophesy, and compare it to Wt's history,  you may then comprehend what this scripture is revealing.  I certainly hope so.
"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  (1914)  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."   
"In 1914—certainly a long time after 33 C.E.—Christ Jesus began his royal presence."  Wt 04/3/1
1914 is a Wt lie, along with all their failed prophesies.  The "son of perdition", the man of lawlessness is the elder body who rules over/sits in God's Temple.  That Temple consists of the anointed ones; and it has been defiled.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17  
 

From one viewpoint,  a renegade writer can STILL write ... and knows where "the bodies are buried".
From his viewpoint, he usually wants to eat three times a day, and not sleep in the snow.
Quid Pro Quo
.
 

I was actually being sarcastic, because with Br. Herd's assurance that we NOW know the correct understanding of the generation, my theory about treating the overlapping generation with caution was wrong....regrettably...

Quite true.
And more than ever I'm convinced this is apparently a US thing. I just can't recall hearing anything particularly emphatic on this matter, other than magazine statements here and there with qualifiers as quoted above, and US CO talks on cassette tapes with starry-eyed brothers saying "You've got to listen to this!".  And of course the odd brother who were (at our level) viewed endearingly as "eccentrics".
I remember meeting an old friend on the street in early '72 who told me, cynically, that I was expecting the world to end in 1975. I didn't know much about that idea then, but I just said to him well, if it doesn't, we will both be here, but if it does, who will be laughing then? I didn't even bother to follow it up after at all. In reality, it just didn't figure in my day to day thinking. But it certainly effected some it appears.
It was most definitely NOT a big subject in my experience on a KHall level, neither in the book studies (apart from a brief flurry in the Nations Shall Know study). It didn't figure at at all in my Bible Study coming into the truth. (I was asked to study the Life Everlasting book, but I rejected it over some sort of "great tribulation" confusion.) I remember a  group of witnesses from my area moved to California in '72. They were very "end soon" oriented I remember, but we just thought they were "over the top"!
It must be a "British" thing. As far as my limited experience goes, we were just not swayed by American hysteria on this matter. We took no notice of end date statements. Maybe we were ALL APOSTATE!!! 

Or is it an editorial WE?
Wikipedia: The editorial "we" is a similar phenomenon, in which an editorial columnist in a newspaper or a similar commentator in another medium refers to himself as we when giving his opinion. Here, the writer casts himself in the role of a spokesperson: either for the media institution that employs him, or more generally on behalf of the party or body of citizens who agree with the commentary.