Srecko Sostar

A person who asks such a question should be able not to look at former members of a church as if they were apostates. People stop being members of a religion for various reasons. Church members who remain faithful to their traditions usually look with displeasure at those who leave. They are especially bitter about those who leave for reasons of disagreement with the theology or politics of how the Church is run.
Now I would like to use the commonly known practice of becoming a member of a Christian church. People should be baptized inside a church. Either at birth or at some other age. We see that many religious communities baptize minors as well as adults. By the act of baptism, one becomes a member of a certain church.
I would use the following illustration. Jesus was born in Jewish nation. By his very birth, he became a member of one nation and one religion. Therefore, he could not choose which nation he would belong to and which religion he would follow. It was determined for him by others. Regardless of whether he came from Heaven or not. That is not important now for the question from the beginning of the post.
What happened when Jesus was about 30 years old? He chose the baptism of John the Baptist and became what was later called a Christian. Jesus converted from the Jewish religion to the Christian religion. In fact, he is the originator, the founder of the Christian religion. But, as a Christian, he spoke a lot about the Jewish religion.
Can we say that Jesus had no right to comment and discuss apostasy in the Jewish religion as a former believer of the Jewish religion?

A person who asks such a question should be able not to look at former members of a church as if they were apostates. People stop being members of a religion for various reasons. Church members who remain faithful to their traditions usually look with displeasure at those who leave. They are especially bitter about those who leave for reasons of disagreement with the theology or politics of how the Church is run.
Now I would like to use the commonly known practice of becoming a member of a Christian church. People should be baptized inside a church. Either at birth or at some other age. We see that many religious communities baptize minors as well as adults. By the act of baptism, one becomes a member of a certain church.
I would use the following illustration. Jesus was born in Jewish nation. By his very birth, he became a member of one nation and one religion. Therefore, he could not choose which nation he would belong to and which religion he would follow. It was determined for him by others. Regardless of whether he came from Heaven or not. That is not important now for the question from the beginning of the post.
What happened when Jesus was about 30 years old? He chose the baptism of John the Baptist and became what was later called a Christian. Jesus converted from the Jewish religion to the Christian religion. In fact, he is the originator, the founder of the Christian religion. But, as a Christian, he spoke a lot about the Jewish religion.
Can we say that Jesus had no right to comment and discuss apostasy in the Jewish religion as a former believer of the Jewish religion?

Before you get too excited though...
 

Here's some proof Christ didn't take the throne in 1914: he didn't get rid of the false teachings in the congregations yet. If he was king, he'd throw out those nasty "Jezebel" guy liars who keep making up stuff at headquarters and trying to pass it off as "truth".
 
😳🤢🤮
 
(I just scanned through the broadcast for the month. The GB worship makes me so sick... Instead of telling the flock to follow Jesus and Jehovah, the GB is continuing to encourage apostasy and idolatry by means of their horrid "Faithful Discreet Slave" label. They mix it in and say worshipping the GB is how to worship Jehovah. They are such liars. Here are some screenshots... I can't wait until Jesus removes the "weeds" and the "leaven"...)
 
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/LatestVideos/pub-jwb-104_1_VIDEO
 
from the June 2023 Broadcast, 153rd Gilead Graduation

Well, I didn't have the patience to listen to it, so I am thankful you were willing to summarize for us!
 
The fact that he would make up all those stories when the scriptures clearly say "no one knows the day or the hour" the Kingdom would begin...I don't understand why they keep saying it was 1914 or 1975 or that they know since Jesus said they wouldn't know.
 
The scriptures do have a ton to say about the time the UN rules as a dominant world power and how long the great tribulation lasts. It's amazing the GB don't have anything to say about that. They are asleep.
 
Jehovah has made clear that we are not yet in the time of Jesus' rule. We also are not at the feet of the dream image yet. The UN isn't the dominant world power yet. Satan hasn't been cast down yet. Religion hasn't been attacked and destroyed yet. God's Word shows that we are not at the end of the end of the "toes" yet. The great tribulation hasn't started yet, and once it does start the Bible says it will last 3 1/2 years.
 
 
 
 

I'm not a native English or American English speaker, but his whole narration, emphasizing parts of sentences, certain words are overemphasized . Each sentence has its own boring rhythm in which two or three words are constantly given a prominent place, only for the next two or three to be reduced in importance, and over again. And so for more than an hour. In my opinion he is a weak speaker, but because he thinks he is an important person who has terribly important things to say, things that are the Revelation of the 20th century, his speech seems pompous and as if it is the ultimate truth that will never change again, like those explanations given by his predecessors, especially Rutherford..

I'm not a native English or American English speaker, but his whole narration, emphasizing parts of sentences, certain words are overemphasized . Each sentence has its own boring rhythm in which two or three words are constantly given a prominent place, only for the next two or three to be reduced in importance, and over again. And so for more than an hour. In my opinion he is a weak speaker, but because he thinks he is an important person who has terribly important things to say, things that are the Revelation of the 20th century, his speech seems pompous and as if it is the ultimate truth that will never change again, like those explanations given by his predecessors, especially Rutherford..

I think we need to have a new rule for this open club…… And that is if you give an  up vote or down vote  … if you are challenged on it you have to give a full explanation suitable to be understood by the average five year old.
Just a passing thought, no more.
it’s just that I see when someone presents hard facts that are irrefutable, and also supply the references by which can be checked by anybody that cares to do so some idiot will give it a down vote.
How can a rational sane person down vote a hard fact that is easily proven?
Reality is what it is, well, except in the case of people who’s thinking it’s driven by their agenda that the fantasy is real and must be defended somehow, even if they can’t defend it.
it’s become a running gag here like the “Myth Myth “ running gag in a Muppet movie of spasm reflex down voting.
Never mind, it’s become so pernicious that it’s become funny.
… it’s like what Adolf Hitler said in his bunker, after he had shot the Eva Braun Hitler, the wife he just married, to death with a Luger and was about to end his own life, “You know, those Allied Forces just CANNOT take a joke!”
 

"However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons,  by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.  They forbid marriage..."
 
(1 Timothy 4:1-3)
 
"In fact, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.”  For we hear that some are walking disorderly among you, not working at all, but meddling with what does not concern them.  To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn. For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good.  But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed.  And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."
 
(2 Thessalonians 3:10-15)
 
"Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father."
 
(Mark 13:32)
 
"So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”  He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."
 
(Acts 1:6,7)
 
It's interesting how many talks, presentations, videos, and books have been made about a make-believe topic! 1914 1975 etc etc...And also how the entire "Bethel" arrangement is an apostasy from what Jesus taught as regards the Christian congregation. Paul said to "mark" anyone who doesn't want to get a job and instead wants to live off others to do a "ministry" and to not associate with them. By that counsel, all of those at Bethel and all the COs should be "disfellowshipped" in the manner described by Paul. What a big mess!
 
@Srecko Sostar, thank you for taking the time to listen to and summarize that talk - F.W. Franz's talk is clearly all a form of a "performance" or like a comedy act! "Clowns" indeed!
 
"Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying:  “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses.  Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say.  They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.  All the works they do, they do to be seen by men, for they broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards and lengthen the fringes of their garments.  They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues  and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men.  But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers.  Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.  Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.  But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."
 
(Matthew 23:1-12)
 
Jesus is going to humble them in time. Hopefully they repent.
 
"The GB has no clothes." Their self-exaltation as some kind of "FDS" clergy class thing is make-believe.

In his speech, F. Franz continues with a dazzling presentation about unwritten things in Bible, but his imagination works well. So he says that God could have created another man with whom Adam could talk, so it would not be boring and difficult for him. Because he would be just as perfect as him. But, in that case, they would not be able to reproduce, so God would have to create countless men to fill the Earth. This would again cause a further problem, because if these men rebelled against God, then one sacrifice of Jesus Christ would not be enough. it would take as many sacrifices as the number of these men is. But, since God is economical, (he literally said that, God is economical, so he alludes that he could have known it, he predicted, in other words, that people would sin) then instead of creating a large number of men, he solved it by creating one female unit.
It's all a product of meditating on the things of God in the Bible, isn't it?

F. Franz puts forward some theses in his speech. Well, he says it's important to know how long it took Adam to name the animals. Then that it is important to know how much time passed from the creation of Adam to the creation of Eve. Because such information is very important in order to be able to understand when the 6000 years of human existence ends and when the last thousand years begin (from the seventh day), the 7th day on which God rests.
He says that Adam only gave names to specimens of a species, not to every animal. This means, he says, that he was able to complete the task quickly. And that the speed of that work depended on how fast God brought him animals. Imagine that.  And how quickly God could do that, he concluded from the record that God brought the animals to Noah, before the Flood, in just one week, because again, he brought only the main representatives of the animals. So, concludes F.F., Adam named the animals in a one week and found that it became difficult for him after that. So God put him to sleep and created Eve.
A really speculative interpretation.

In his speech, F. Franz continues with a dazzling presentation about unwritten things in Bible, but his imagination works well. So he says that God could have created another man with whom Adam could talk, so it would not be boring and difficult for him. Because he would be just as perfect as him. But, in that case, they would not be able to reproduce, so God would have to create countless men to fill the Earth. This would again cause a further problem, because if these men rebelled against God, then one sacrifice of Jesus Christ would not be enough. it would take as many sacrifices as the number of these men is. But, since God is economical, (he literally said that, God is economical, so he alludes that he could have known it, he predicted, in other words, that people would sin) then instead of creating a large number of men, he solved it by creating one female unit.
It's all a product of meditating on the things of God in the Bible, isn't it?

F. Franz puts forward some theses in his speech. Well, he says it's important to know how long it took Adam to name the animals. Then that it is important to know how much time passed from the creation of Adam to the creation of Eve. Because such information is very important in order to be able to understand when the 6000 years of human existence ends and when the last thousand years begin (from the seventh day), the 7th day on which God rests.
He says that Adam only gave names to specimens of a species, not to every animal. This means, he says, that he was able to complete the task quickly. And that the speed of that work depended on how fast God brought him animals. Imagine that.  And how quickly God could do that, he concluded from the record that God brought the animals to Noah, before the Flood, in just one week, because again, he brought only the main representatives of the animals. So, concludes F.F., Adam named the animals in a one week and found that it became difficult for him after that. So God put him to sleep and created Eve.
A really speculative interpretation.

F. Franz puts forward some theses in his speech. Well, he says it's important to know how long it took Adam to name the animals. Then that it is important to know how much time passed from the creation of Adam to the creation of Eve. Because such information is very important in order to be able to understand when the 6000 years of human existence ends and when the last thousand years begin (from the seventh day), the 7th day on which God rests.
He says that Adam only gave names to specimens of a species, not to every animal. This means, he says, that he was able to complete the task quickly. And that the speed of that work depended on how fast God brought him animals. Imagine that.  And how quickly God could do that, he concluded from the record that God brought the animals to Noah, before the Flood, in just one week, because again, he brought only the main representatives of the animals. So, concludes F.F., Adam named the animals in a one week and found that it became difficult for him after that. So God put him to sleep and created Eve.
A really speculative interpretation.

Franz uttered some interesting nonsense and it was instructive to listen to the way in which he presented his argumentation, which is the fiction of an inquisitive mind. His mind that has fed millions of similar minds around the world with his confused application of prophecy and plain non-prophetic biblical statements with the historical experience of WTJWorg and his predecessors.
Therefore. September 5th 1975 is the turning point in which or after which, but it is a month, two, three months or a short number of years in which Armageddon will come.
He, together with other like-minded people, subjugated and fueled the anticipation that was to come immediately. He said don't get married, don't look for a good job, don't plan for children, don't plan for education, because that Day is coming quickly.
Clowns are still in charge, sadly.

Franz uttered some interesting nonsense and it was instructive to listen to the way in which he presented his argumentation, which is the fiction of an inquisitive mind. His mind that has fed millions of similar minds around the world with his confused application of prophecy and plain non-prophetic biblical statements with the historical experience of WTJWorg and his predecessors.
Therefore. September 5th 1975 is the turning point in which or after which, but it is a month, two, three months or a short number of years in which Armageddon will come.
He, together with other like-minded people, subjugated and fueled the anticipation that was to come immediately. He said don't get married, don't look for a good job, don't plan for children, don't plan for education, because that Day is coming quickly.
Clowns are still in charge, sadly.

Franz uttered some interesting nonsense and it was instructive to listen to the way in which he presented his argumentation, which is the fiction of an inquisitive mind. His mind that has fed millions of similar minds around the world with his confused application of prophecy and plain non-prophetic biblical statements with the historical experience of WTJWorg and his predecessors.
Therefore. September 5th 1975 is the turning point in which or after which, but it is a month, two, three months or a short number of years in which Armageddon will come.
He, together with other like-minded people, subjugated and fueled the anticipation that was to come immediately. He said don't get married, don't look for a good job, don't plan for children, don't plan for education, because that Day is coming quickly.
Clowns are still in charge, sadly.

I think you can find audio recordings online of some talks that mention 1975...
 
 
 

For the most part, they are. It is the theme of yet another book, which is the final proofing stage. (I’ve removed TTvtA for revision.)
Not sure we agree on which issue that is. For the most part it is an asset, though it does come with downsides:

 

If memory serves, it was Charles Sinutko who to thunderous applause at Assemblies coined the phrase “STAY ALIVE ‘TILL 75 !!!”.
That was almost 50 years ago, and I no longer have my notes.
…. but Srecko Sostar provided hard proof from the Society’s publications above. 
There is no way a sane, rational person can fluff that off.

Someone said in the Bible, I have a lot to tell you, but you can't carry it now. However, he still told them more than he should have. The followers then misunderstood many things, and nothing has changed even today with modern followers.
Who does not understand the simple message of the gospel? I guess all those who create a rich Corporation out of religion.

Just recently, last week, I heard from a JW brother that many years ago he preached in the countryside, about 1 hour away from Zagreb (approx. 45 km). Many people, whose doors he knocked on, very quickly said when they understood what he was preaching, oh you are the ones who went to the hill in 1975.
Since he was younger at the time, he did not immediately understand what kind of hill and 1975 the people in the village were talking about. Only much later did he connect what it was all about. 
So the JW brothers of that time went/climbed to the hill to wait for Armageddon. It's smart that they didn't sell their houses so they had somewhere to go back to and of course they stopped being JWs.

At WTJWorg, all theological issues are tied into one single issue, problem.