Srecko Sostar

From the event related to Moses (and not only him), one could conclude differently. Just before entering the Promised Land, Moses ignored the instruction he received from God (concerning water for a thirsty people). The "punishment" was swift and irreversible.
The duty and privilege of leading the people to enter the Promised Land has been delegated to new people, Joshua and Caleb and others.

Now knowing that this writer twisted the quote, I would not defend him in any way.  I also would not come to the defense of the accurate quote JWI provided, because its writers have twisted the word of God.  By everyone’s upvotes when it was presented, most JWs here seem to defend something that turned out to be speculation not sourced in Holy Spirit.  Remember, its message was heralded far and wide and then turned out to be untrue…and it caused tremendous damage to JWs.  Was it intended?  Was it hatred?  Did the leaders learn from their past mistakes to stop projecting a date of Armageddon that always failed? Did they refer to the word of God before doing so?
Although I regret posting the quote because of its inaccuracy, in this case of quotes, what is the difference?  What side of the fence should we be on when it comes to lies present on both sides? 
I choose God’s word in Christ. 
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”  Acts 1:7
 
 

I do know better, and I apologized.  🙂  But do your leaders?  After how many years of failed teachings, do they know better?  
"This is what the Lord of Armies says: Don’t listen to what the prophets are saying to you. They fill you with false hope. They speak about visions that they dreamed up. These visions are not from the Lord."             Jer 23:16
What about you?  Do you know better not to listen to them?

You’re right it was a sloppy choice!  Too good to be “true”!  I do apologize for not going to the source of the quote to double check it.  Accuracy in quoting the org. is important.  Funny though, the Wt’s sloppiness in making the prediction to begin with, never needed an apology – never needed a calling out by its members, when it failed and affected the lives of millions. 

If It’s a profession that you took on voluntarily to interpret the word of God, it’s better to be good at it the first time.
ESPECIALLY if you are collecting money at the same time.
Selling Windows 3, or 4, or 5 is problematic when the very first Windows started at Windows 95.
 

I agree that there will be a clear distinction between light and darkness, truth and lies and people must make their decision of which to follow (Mal 3:18; Joel 3:14; John 3:19-21), but are you thinking that the light of Christ, which are his words in scripture…which are the words of God…can involve falsehoods?  Failed teachings? That's impossible, isn't it?  Falsehoods stem from the devil, not Jesus Christ. (John 8:44) If one claims that Christ is leading JWs, then the GB's teachings would be just as reliable, just as lasting as his teachings; because, they are his teachings explained truthfully. (John 15:16) They would never cause disappointment to the listener seeking truth.  They would never include the doctrine of men, which an organization requires.  (Matt 24:24,25; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 Thess 2:13)
In any other aspect of life, I am sure you would be upset if you found that you were being misled for any length of time by a lie, that you were once convinced was TRUTH.  How much more so, should you be upset to find that you were being told a spiritual lie by a religious leader.  
 Never would Jesus do such a thing.  Never would he mislead someone with “bad fruit”.   To believe he would offer unsound teachings, through someone he would send, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. (John 13:20) 
 Do JWs believe that Christ’s admonitions, his commands, do not apply to your leaders? ( Matt 7:15-20)
"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." John 16:13
Please tell me where in this defunct doctrine, you find a glimmer of light, of truth, from the Spirit of truth:
"The battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, but not years." (Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975, wt 8/15/1968).
2 Tim 4:3-4
The simplicity of Christ is pure light and truth, not something obscure, or shaky in its interpretation,  or 'not sound from a human standpoint'.  We are humans, and as humans we are told to "test the spirits" to make sure that what an anointed priest from Christ teaches is sound, nourishing "food" from the Father and the Son. ((Mal 2:7;1 John 4:1) 
 I gave scriptures that clarify truth in Christ is always sound –  always “healthy”.  Where in the scriptures can you verify that truth is not sound "from a human standpoint”  – unhealthy – and in the last days must be offered to those who desire to know truth?
"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
 
 
 
 

The JW that was “in the truth” in the past decades had a different truth than the JW of more recent times. They are united only by the WTJWorg administration, which is in legal continuity through all periods of doctrinal changes.

JW members in all stages of their spiritual life, to this day claim the same, "have the truth", "were in the truth", "are in the truth". Apparently they have been accompanied by "God's blessing" all this time when it comes to all those changed doctrines.

BUT, your GB state that 'God and Jesus trust the GB so all JWs must trust the GB'
So isn't that a contradiction ? Would God want the GB to say those words above, and then the GB give false inforamtion ? 
You JWs do not think it all through do you. 

WONDERFUL WORDS but when I say anything similar or if @Witness, or @Srecko Sostarsays so, then we get shot down for it. 

At the International Congress in Vienna, I think 1989 or so, they repeated that nonsense about marriage and children.

This reminded me of Space Merchant claiming that Rutherford also held the title of “Pastor”. From this quote it seems how JFR thought differently.

Exaggeration is not something invented by ex-JWs. I would not be surprised if some biblical texts are exaggerated in their description of events. Exaggeration or alteration of the description sometimes comes when things are retold. And this is often the case in this human activity, regardless of origin.
GB has often dealt with interpretations of the biblical text relating to Jesus' statements. And they used just this kind of parameter and premise you mentioned: It is like this: "We, GB, know what Jesus meant when he said this or that. It is therefore important that you now believe what we have changed in our interpretation." :))
 

“I have come as light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me would not remain in darkness.” John 12:46
Our belief in Christ involves obedience to his teachings, the Word of God. (John 12:49,50;14:23-24) Jesus said his words “are full of Spirit and life”, and they can direct us to the illuminated path leading to eternal life. (John 6:63; 8:12; 14:6) We would never choose to walk a path in complete darkness without another one’s assistance, or without carrying some sort of light or lamp. (Ps 119:105) By allowing our heart and mind to absorb and follow Christ’s teachings, we are equipped with the light of truth. (John 8:31-32) We will not be caught walking in the darkness of religious deceit in this world. (Ps 18:28; John 3:21; Phil 2:15) 
“The lamp of your body is your eye. When your eye is sound, your whole body is full of light, but when your eye is evil, your whole body is full of darkness. So be very careful that your light never becomes darkness. For if your whole body is full of light, with no part of it in shadow, it will all be radiant—it will be like having a bright lamp to give you light.” Luke 11:34-36 (Phillips Translation)
Of the full gamut of teachings by the organization, is it not true that most beliefs of yesterday, lie in the shadows of the organization’s library of defunct doctrines? Each changed teaching is abandoned to its “dark corners”, as another translation puts it in Luke chapter 11. Yet these doctrines are still discretely catalogued, as if to boast that God has shown His blessings on the organization by providing JWs with “new light”. (Isa 59:8-10; Jer 9:5-6) 
However, this “new light” concept, contradicts what God’s word describes as coming from the Father (Isa 5:20). 
“Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.” James 1:16,17
To date, there are a half dozen shifting variations of the doctrine, “this generation” alone; but the perfect spiritual gifts of knowledge from the Father are “sound”, or translated in Luke 11:34 as “healthy”. His word in Jesus Christ is “good fruit” that feeds us spiritually. (Prov 8:19) Phil 2:16 tells us to “hold firmly to the message of life”. Should this good fruit that imparts eternal life, ever be replaced with the shifting, unsound doctrine of men, which the scriptures call “bad fruit”? (Ps 5:9; Matt 7:17,18; 2 Thess 2:1,2; 2 Tim 4:3,4; 1 Thess 2:13) 
“This is the sort of thing you should teach, and if anyone tries to teach some doctrinal novelty which is not compatible with sound teaching (which we base on Christ’s own words and which leads to Christ-like living), then he is a conceited idiot! His mind is a morbid jumble of disputation and argument, things which lead to nothing but jealousy, quarrelling, insults and malicious innuendoes—continual wrangling, in fact, among men of warped minds who have lost their real hold on the truth but hope to make some profit out of the Christian religion.” 1 Tim 6:3-5
Jesus said those whom he sends would provide food/”fruit” that remains; healthful food from the vine symbolizing Jesus Christ. It would never be rejected and tossed into the shadows where countless Wt. doctrines resulting from their futile works in darkness, have fallen as rotten “fruit”. (Isa 59:21; John 13:20; 15:1,2; Matt 7:19,20) 
“Do not work for food that does not last. Work for food that lasts forever. The Son of Man will give you that kind of food. God the Father has shown He will do this.” John 6:27
(Jesus used the terms, “bread” (John 6:32-33,35), “water” - John 4:10,14, “fruit” - Matt 12:33; Eph 5:9, and “meat” used in John 6:27, to describe the spiritual nourishment obtained from the Word of God – truth from Jesus Christ. Matt 24:45)  
With Jesus’ guidance, we are provided a smooth path to our understanding of scriptures. (Isa 42:16) The disciples of Christ whom he sends to preach his word, are to let their light/”lamp” shine as well. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:9; Luke 8:16; 1 Thess 5:5; 2 Cor 4:6; 1 John 1:56; 4:6) 
Righteous teachings, the result of the light of truth, are never the cause of stumbling; but unrighteous dark teachings stemming from the hearts of corrupt men, cause one to sin, to stumble, as a result of their teachers’ lies. (Ps 56:13; Prov 4:11-12; 2:10-14; 82:5;4:19; Job 24:13; Rom 6:16-18; 2 Cor 11:29; 2 Cor 6:14) 
Once our spiritual eye is open to the continuous and progressive light of truth, we can recognize that anything the governing leaders may demand of us outside of God’s word, involves blatant stumbling blocks we must avoid at all costs; but to those still blind, these treacherous and deliberately placed teachings lead their listeners deeper into the pit of darkness. (2 Pet 2:1-3,15,17-18) If these men were sent by Jesus Christ as a faithful and “sensible” slave, would they demand JWs to blindly obey instructions crafted from their “warped minds”, that do not have the backing of Jesus’ teachings? (Jude 1:4,12-13,16-19) (Prov 3:5-7; Matt 24:48-51) 
Prov 30:6 – “Add nothing to his words, lest he reprove you and expose you as a fraud.”
When Jesus tells us,
that if our "eye is bad"/"causes us to stumble",
then the path we blindly wandered onto, contains stumbling blocks. We have drifted away from the path of life (Heb 2:1; Matt 7:14; John 14:6)
 This compares to our feet needing to be washed of their dust/death path (Ps 119:9,105; 1:1-2; John 13:13,14).
Our faulty perception (bad "eye") is like being blind, which leads us along a path of death, to fall into a dark pit (2 Pet 2:21). If not rescued from the pit, due to our begging God for light and accepting his spirit, we end up being condemned to Gehenna. 
Pluck Out Your "Eye"
The governing leaders predicted the coming of a future announcement containing “life-saving direction” that must be obeyed, whether it seems “sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not”. What will be the origin of this organizational decision? Well, it will not be sourced in the scriptures that tell us God’s word in Christ is always sound and leading to eternal life. (Rom 16:17-18; 2 Tim 1:13; 2:14-16) If we can grasp this point backed by scripture, should we ever entertain any spiritual direction that is warned as being not sound to our ears – not spiritually nourishing? ( Gal 1:8-9; 2 Pet 2:1; Heb 13:9; Titus 2:1) 
These leaders’ “eye” perceives an unexplainable vague path ahead for JWs, based on “doctrinal novelty”. (Eph 5:6) While they demand JWs to work, or slave for the food they receive through their dedication to “Jehovah’s organization”, we can be certain their direction will be a decision made in darkness, void of any light from the Father and the Son. (Prov 2:12-15; Matt 24:24-26; Rev 13:16-17; 2 Pet 2:19; John 6:27; 1 John 1:6; Titus 2:7-8; Gal 1:10) 
According to Luke 11:36 we should be capable of surmising that these are evil men with evil plans, which will stumble their hearers. (Job 38:15; Isa 28:7; John 3:19-20) They taunt the Word of God, living according to their will, and not the will of Jesus Christ. They prefer the darkness and the indulgence of their corrupt teachings. (2 Cor 6:14) 
The book of Revelation speaks of a bright star, “blazing like a lamp”, that falls from the heavens. (Rev 8:10,11;9:1-2; 1 Cor 10:12; 2 Pet 3:17) This is Wormwood, a root of bitterness, which represents the fallen anointed leaders who no longer adhere to the word of God. They have betrayed their King, Jesus Christ. (Hos 9:1; Matt 24:11; John 15:5,6; Rom 1:21; Gal 1:6-9 Col 2:19; 2 Cor 11:1-2; 1 Cor 6:15-16; Rev 17:1-2,5; 19:11,15-16) 
As 1 Tim 6:5 says, they have lost their real hold on the truth, but hope to make some profit out of the Christian religion. . (Luke 4:5-7; 2 Cor 2:17;2 Pet 2:1-3; Phil 3:18-19) 
These spiritual harlots have traded their inheritance Christ promises to share with his faithful servants in the Kingdom, for a “morsel of meat”. (Gen 28:13-14; Ps 37:11; Rom 4:13; Heb 12:15-16) 
When we are cleverly diverted away from the true bread from heaven (Christ -John 6:33), to learn from Satan through the false prophet and beast organization (Rev 16:13,14; 1 Tim 4:1; 2 Cor 11:3—4)
...If we progress and mature whole-souled in that deception, we come to know the deep things of Satan (Rev 2:24)... Satan's solid food... Satan's "meat".
The further down we go into such deceptions, the further down we sink into Hades / the abyss of darkness. Satan gets a strong hold on us, as if we are in chains.
Meat Sacrificed to Idols
And there we have it, with their “father of the lie” at the helm, the two Beasts of Revelation emerged in the last days to lead and stumble the holy anointed ones into sin. (John 8:44; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 13:1,2,6-7,10,11,12; 16:13-16) As God’s wayward priests, these leaders have built their religious organization on spiritual food “sacrificed to idols”, defiling all holy sacrifices that should be offered to God. (Rev 2:20) 
They have not only defiled themselves, but all of God’s holy priests, His Temple, and all JWs who “married” into these teachings under the “woman” covenant of “Babylon the Great”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) (Lev 21:6-8,11-12; 2 Cor 6:16; 1 Pet 1:15; 2 Pet 3:10-11; Isa 28:15-18; Rev 17:5; 18:4,9-10) 
Under the rule of the Harlot/”wicked slave”, the ”glorious ones” ("lights" in Zech 14:6,7) have hidden their light of truth, under a basket. (Matt 5:14-16; 24:48-51) 
Col 2:8 (NIRV) – “Make sure no one controls you. They will try to control you by using false reasoning that has no meaning. Their ideas depend on human teachings. They also depend on the basic spiritual powers of this world. They don’t depend on Christ.”
 
 

Yes, I also heard that this was around 1989. That's because the January 1, 1989 Watchtower had just predicted that the new system would be within about 11 years.
"He was laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century."
This was a "necessary" belief based on the then-current understanding of "this generation."
It's human nature, I guess. If things go on the same, I expect the same kind of talk in 2025 or so, in preparation for a subliminal belief among us that the end must come by 2034, else the 1914 teaching would become effectively obsolete. Then, if all continues, such talk will keep happening until the overlapping groups within the generation become mathematically impossible.
But these things shouldn't phase us (too much). Elsewhere @xero spoke of how we should enter the kingdom as little children. Little children, on their way to an anticipated destination are prone to over-excitement, asking questions like: "Are we there yet?" "Now how many more miles, daddy?" [If that was in another forum, xero, I hope you don't mind having the idea repeated here.]

Exaggeration is not something invented by ex-JWs. I would not be surprised if some biblical texts are exaggerated in their description of events. Exaggeration or alteration of the description sometimes comes when things are retold. And this is often the case in this human activity, regardless of origin.
GB has often dealt with interpretations of the biblical text relating to Jesus' statements. And they used just this kind of parameter and premise you mentioned: It is like this: "We, GB, know what Jesus meant when he said this or that. It is therefore important that you now believe what we have changed in our interpretation." :))
 

Walter:
I realize I am not talking about an apostate book, but which do you think has better survived the last 100 years …. The 20 or so books written by Russel and Rutherford, and others, circa 1914, which if taught now would be considered apostasy, or the writings of Edgar Rice Burroughs, circa 1914, who among about 20 or so books, wrote “Tarzan of the Apes”?
( a town North of Los Angeles was renamed Tarzana, California in honor of Edgar Rice Burroughs, and recently one of the most expensive movies ever made “John Carter” from his book “Princess of Mars”).
I await your promised harsh, negative response.

Please can you tell me where it was written? Ever since I know for myself, and while I was JW, I have been taught in the Congregation that this claim was made by the Catholic Church and how blasphemous it is on their part.
quote from "Revelation book":
As early as December 18, 1918, the body now known as the National Council of the Churches of Christ in America adopted a declaration that declared in part: “Such a League is not a mere political expedient; it is rather the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth. . . . The Church can give a spirit of good-will, without which no League of Nations can endure. . . . The League of Nations is rooted in the Gospel. Like the Gospel, its objective is ‘peace on earth, good-will toward men.’” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/index/r1/lp-e?index-ref=1101988033%3A30%2C1101988033%3A38%2C1101988033%3A44%2C1101988033%3A83

Pudgy is right. It's not written in the same words. It's written the way I quoted the same sentiment from the February 15, 1919 Watch Tower, p.51. In fact, the timing of that article might even make someone guess that it was a way of showing agreement with the similar, but much more direct, statement from the "Federal Council of Churches" (FCC) just a few weeks earlier. They both praise the objective/purpose of the League, and both convey that it is in line with the kingdom message foretold in the Bible. Also if you read the entire comment from the FCC you see that they also didn't make it the equivalent of God's Kingdom, just a political expression of it. It was very common in those decades for the Watchtower to express agreement with political happenings that they understood to be aligned with the expectations about the Kingdom. This was especially true of Zionism, movements with respect to "capital vs. labor," and various politicians of the time who were even depicted as the near equivalent of "prophets."
Edited to add an example:
For example, the 1924 Golden Age (now Awake!), on page 149, says:
We understand now, why Mr. Ramsay MacDonald, who like Judge Rutherford is permeated with the real Biblical and prophetic spirit, ceases not in his discourse to defy the devil, and throw (morally) an inkwell into his face, as the deceased Luther did. We understand also why the Premier of the Labor Party turns his back on the League of Nations, of which formerly he was an apostle, and draws near to the Americans whose eyes are opened.
Judge Rutherford cites, in addition to prophecies from Isaiah, Ezekiel and Amos, from Mr. MacDonald: "There is neither betterment nor peace in Europe. The governments are powerless. The year 1924 is worse than 1914." Again he [Rutherfod] quotes the prophet David Lloyd George: "A new chapter opens in the history of Europe, with a climax of horror such as the world has never witnessed."

The qualification “in effect” makes the quote not a direct quote from the Watchtower,  but a comparison of similarity.(?) of Christendom’s sentiments and the Watchtower’s sentiments.
At least that is how I read it.

I suppose JWI will clarify.
I do know that the 9-1/2 years the Society was affiliated with the United Nations as an NGO, there were puff pieces in the Awake! Magazine about the United Nations.

 
What the NGO supporting articles stated was precisely fair and accurate, but the puffery was to fulfill their obligations to the UN to show they supported the IDEALS of the UN.
My guess is the articles by themselves were sent to the UN, and not the whole Awake!.

Please can you tell me where it was written? Ever since I know for myself, and while I was JW, I have been taught in the Congregation that this claim was made by the Catholic Church and how blasphemous it is on their part.
quote from "Revelation book":
As early as December 18, 1918, the body now known as the National Council of the Churches of Christ in America adopted a declaration that declared in part: “Such a League is not a mere political expedient; it is rather the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth. . . . The Church can give a spirit of good-will, without which no League of Nations can endure. . . . The League of Nations is rooted in the Gospel. Like the Gospel, its objective is ‘peace on earth, good-will toward men.’” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/index/r1/lp-e?index-ref=1101988033%3A30%2C1101988033%3A38%2C1101988033%3A44%2C1101988033%3A83

The freedom to go in that direction of interpretation stems from the silly comparisons and logic of GB members. In style, "Jesus and JHVH have complete confidence in us (GB) so you rank and file JWs should have complete confidence in us too".
GB, on the other hand, claims for himself that he is the only FDS who shares only accurate spiritual food. If you want to ask me as a former JW, whose spiritual food could be the only health-spiritually correct one, then it is probably only from Jesus, not from the self-proclaimed members of the GB. Comparing the same kind of activity, and that is “sharing spiritual food,” from Jesus and / or GB cannot be in the same rank, class.
Because GB promotes the constant need to be trusted just as people trust Jesus, it sends a clear enough message that one should be extremely careful with GB.
How did Rutherford feel? In what role did he think he was?

The direction of movement of the WTS organization after Russell's death may be called by some as a distance and apostasy from what was established as "the truth" by Russell. This Russell is now called a "messenger" in the JW circle, and is likened to John the Baptist as the messenger of Jesus Christ.
On the other hand, today's WTJWorg opted for an explanation in which every "old truth" was never a "lie" but only a stepping stone to the "new truth".
Certainly, such an idea of WTJWorg is unbearable, because the truth cannot be built on false theses. Can false theses lead to true doctrine? Obviously, this is possible in the theory and practice of "Rutherford's organization".
If there is already a tendency to compare and give a certain meaning to Russell that he is like John, then we can ask ourselves what “doctrinal errors” did John make while preaching Jesus? And how can this be applied to Russell?
The comparison of GB with Jesus is unknown. I don’t think it’s ever been so openly portrayed in the WTJWorg literature, but it is hidden in a previous comparison / illustration and in an attempt to portray historical figures from the near and far history of the organization.

I thought I wouldn't do this, but since you asked, I found the answer interesting.
In 1915 Rutherford felt himself a "defender of the faith" in a very literal sense. He had written a defense against most of the attacks on Russell in 1915. When Russell died, in 1916, it looks like Rutherford was genuinely concerned to do the right thing, scripturally. I hadn't known that P.S.L. Johnson was actually a very good friend of Rutherford's at the time. (Later they had a big falling out.) So when Russell died, Rutherford went to his good friend because he trusted him to know the prophetic types better than anyone, and wanted to know if Russell would have a successor. (They had both just recently met in Maryland at the time Russell died. Johnson lived in Ohio, but was in Maryland on a "Pilgrim" visit  and Rutherford was there on business.)
Johnson told Rutherford that he didn't know about Russell having a successor, but he would study the "types and anti-types" and get back to him. And they both traveled fto NY in the next couple of days to get to the funeral. It might seem naive to look at "types" for a kind of "sign" as to what to do next, but it was new to me that Rutherford did not at that moment come across like the bombastic, brash person we sometimes think of from later months. Even though we have recently dropped "type/antitype" doctrines, it is interesting that they would use these as a kind of "Urim/Thummin" before they made a decision, and not just find "types and antitypes" to explain or justify or "scripturalize" decisions or events that already happened.
When they felt "lost" they turned the Bible, and Rutherford turned humbly to someone he thought of as smarter than himself on scriptural matters. (PSL Johnson was considered to be the most brilliant of the Bible Students at the time.)
Also, I learned from the book that the board of directors actually tried to run things the way that Russell had outlined in his "last will and testament." Johnson said that this lasted about a week. It wasn't just Rutherford who were rejecting Russell's will.

Maybe I’ll get back to you after I finish Children, picked up a few weeks ago at a ….. um……eclectic book store out in the boondocks where you suspect the owner doesn’t really care if he ever sells a book or not—he just likes to hoard them. Cats roam freely and I’d be a little leery of books on the bottom row. Many aisles are completely impassable. You can only explore the far end by going down an adjacent aisle and doubling back.