Srecko Sostar

Why not just hold their hand over an open flame?  To be stumbled spiritually by a spiritual leader is a grave sin.  It is spiritual abuse.  We don't respond with more abuse.  
"Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?"  2 Cor 11:29
GWT - "When anyone is weak, I’m weak too. When anyone is caught in a trap, I’m also harmed."
 

One can certainly notice the emergence of one particular generation (various age groups) of JWs that has reached a stage of maturation in which they are ready to tear down the “Berlin Wall” in their organization. At least or primarily on a personal level, while remaining within that same “wall,” more physically than spiritually. Many of your comments here give such an impression and confirmation.
Of course, it is "your" organization and you have the right to it as it is and as you support it and change or confirm it.

I would be interested in your clarification on the similarities and differences between:
being able to make informed decision (about good news represented by JWs
and
to accept the good news (also represented by JWs)
What can save a man? Informed consent or faith in something divine?

One can certainly notice the emergence of one particular generation (various age groups) of JWs that has reached a stage of maturation in which they are ready to tear down the “Berlin Wall” in their organization. At least or primarily on a personal level, while remaining within that same “wall,” more physically than spiritually. Many of your comments here give such an impression and confirmation.
Of course, it is "your" organization and you have the right to it as it is and as you support it and change or confirm it.

An article from 1987, that goes back a ways!  I think you would probably admit that everything you would like to believe about your Armageddon, can be found in the Wt articles and sifted to suit your conscience.  Although, at the Annual Convention, Stephen Lett numbered the “wicked” against the number of JWs as “900 to one”.  By calling them all wicked, he is essentially labeling all outside of the organization as having no chance of being saved at Armageddon.  They have been judged by your leader. 
 Many people whole-heartedly believe in Jesus and God, but refuse the message of JWs.  God reads those hearts, all hearts, individually.  The message of JWs does not determines who is saved and who is not saved.
“For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don’t you judge those who are inside?”  1 Cor 5:12
Paul is talking about the anointed of the Body of Christ.  It is the message to JWs in the last days, specifically the anointed - God’s chosen people - that needs to be noticed and heeded. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Matt 10:23; 1 Pet 4:17,18; Rev 18:4-8)
 
 
 

I would like to apologize for EVERYTHING I accused PwfT of and the acrimony generated by these discussions. I now realize that he acted honorably, and in good faith, with the reasonable assumption that I authored the cut-and-paste article from  The Babylon Bee web site, because it is MY RESPONSIBILITY as a poster to be clear and unambiguous as to attributions.
I also should have remembered what I posted, and did not.
What “lit my fire”, was the quote from what I did post …. Words of terrible import …. That I forgot were part of a biting satire by The Babylon Bee against the Jewish clergy ….  attributed to “Pudgy said”.
And so when I went looking for where I had personally said it (authored it), that is what I was looking for, and did not find it.
This whole mess is entirely my fault, and I am sorry for over-reacting, and appreciate those who called me out on it.
At the end of the day, it was my post.

I've never even heard of it. I'm in England maybe that makes a difference. Most of you are in the USA so a lot of the stuff some of you write really does go over my head. Films, television programmes, books et al. I seriously do keep myself seperate from the 'world' so i don't bother with many things. My wife and i find happiness in God's creations and we tend to keep away from much comercialism........ 

Boy, we’ve experienced that time and again in the Wt. There are keys we know we can consider when looking at “fruit” to choose from; and it should be our choice, not shoved down our throat with threats that we must submit to. 
“As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of your children’s children, from now on and forever,” says the Lord.” Isa 59:21
If someone is given/chosen to receive the Spirit of God, their teachings would remain. (John 13:20)
“You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give you.”  John 15:16
How easy it is for men to want their own ideas to fly.  Like Russell and the pyramid/1914.  Or Rutherford and Beth Sarim and his failed dates.  Franz and 1975/ Armageddon. These were selfish, ambitious acts that don’t require humility to approach God with an honest heart for direction. None of those ideas were sourced in the Spirit of God according to Isa 59:21; which tells us, these people are not “part” of Christ who is the vine.  The sap of this vine is Holy Spirit that reaches the branches.  If an anointed one does not produce “good fruit” it proves they were never Christ’s disciples. 
“I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this: that you produce much fruit and prove to be my disciples.  John 15:5-8
This also shows the Wt. cannot, never has, and will not, glorify the Father – either by giving glory to His name, or to His works. It’s teachings/fruit never remains.   It certainly will not glorify the Son, whom they say directs the congregations. 
The GB are withering without the Spirit of God.  They are feeding their people “vomit”.  Incredibly they are actually regurgitating past articles, sprucing them up, and serving them again.
As a dog returns to its vomit, so also a fool repeats his foolishness. Prov 26:11
Indeed, all their tables are covered with vomit; there is no place without a stench.  Isa 28:8
Rotten “fruit” never smells appetizing.  Matt 7:15-20
 

This interesting biblical quote points to another problem in WTJWorg (or in the individual believer). Religious JW leaders have been praying to God for 140 years for Bible truth and understanding. So they prayed for bread and fish. And they got something. They put it on paper and in public speeches. They developed doctrines and beliefs in these things.
Then they came to the conclusion that they did not get bread and fish, but stone and snake. They rejected doctrines and prayed to God again. Again they got something from God. So they rejected it again, because, it seems, they got a stone and a snake again.
So what's wrong with all that? Are they bad kids or is he a bad father?

You're saying that there have been no missionaries "preaching" to people in Calcutta at their doors over the years?  Are you also saying that in your Armageddon, these people will not be destroyed?
So, the  choice is to associate with JWs, the only choice that JWs comprehend when a person studies Wt literature with them, which is to join the physical organization.  Is that how they are sanctified?  John 17:17
What does this mean?  According to Jesus what should someone do?  Be dedicated to an organization?  Where in his words does he say this?  Can you show me from the scriptures, or is it only your organization  that says this?  Who's words do JWs listen to?  he Holy Spirit is not restricted to an earthly organization; and believe me, where lies are found - false teachings that cannot be dismissed, Holy Spirit will not be found there.   Jesus said, "For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”
We have that truth in the scriptures. Do you really believe that Jesus' voice is heard through your leadership that can't even understand his words about "this generation"?  Men, who keep setting dates contrary to what the scriptures tell us? Men who tell their flock that there will be two Armageddon, one now and one a thousand years later?   Are these men truly on the side of truth?
@Arauna, @Thinking - 
"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev 7:9,10,15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."    km 11/1990
This is idolatry.  The organization was built "on the earth", "like" other organizations found on the earth.  It was created by men.  Rom 1:25  It is interesting that students are to be directed to what they can literally see established in Satan's world.  1 John 5:19  
‘You shall have no other gods besides Me.
8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9 You shall not worship them nor serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, inflicting the punishment of the fathers on the children, even on the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."  Deut 5:7-10
As I said, Jesus never taught the foundation members of his temple, to build an earthly organization. They were the "organization" - a heavenly, spiritual one, built on his body.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22
 
 
 
 

For JWs that "one conclusion" is that the existence of an earthly organization built by uninspired men, is taught as inspired by God. Yet, there are more than one "spirit" that can "inspire" men. (Rev 13:15)
"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall ("apostatize") away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons  by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron"  1 Tim 4:1,2
Who are the "some" and what do those "some" do?
"But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their indecent behavior, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."   2 Pet 2:1-3
The way of the truth is through Jesus Christ - NEVER THROUGH ANY ORGANIZATION THAT MEN WOULD BUILD.  But that is the one conclusion that every JW has come to believe.  Your leaders have denied their Master who bought them through the anointing.  They have effectively diverted the way of the truth, through their teaching that an organization is necessary to reach salvation.  
 

Well back in the 1960's / 70's the JW answers were a lot different to their answers today. 
7,000 year creative days. 6,000 years of humans on earth, then Armageddon and the 1,000 years of Christ's reign.
Simple wasn't it ?  BUT WRONG. How many times have the JW answers changed ? 
So maybe in 10 years time all the JW answers wil be different again. 
 

You have dismissed the power of God, the power Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, by lumping the organization’s errors on “imperfect people”.
To his disciples:
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?  Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!”
Check your list of changed doctrine.  Was any of it provided by Jesus Christ?  Can it be compared to bread, or to a stone? To fish, or to a snake?
So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
All JWs were and are, chained to false teachings, because your leaders did not, and do not, ask Jesus for knowledge.  They did not “continue” in his word in order to be blessed with truth.  Their word has become much more important than the words of Jesus Christ.
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you."  John 14:26
Nothing on the list of Beliefs Clarified was truth. You must admit that according to his words, Jesus didn't have a hand in your leadership's understanding.  It is list of myths; all of it, is the “doctrine of men”. The scriptures give clear proof that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not provide any of it. You should wonder if God approves of men's doctrine superseding the doctrine of His Son, Jesus Christ.
“ For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will reject the truth and chase after myths.”  2 Tim 4:2-4
What are JWs chasing after now?  What apparent “truth” are they looking forward to seeing fulfilled?  And why do they get so excited when new doctrine takes the place of old?  
They look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

I have indeed said myself that I'm due to destruction. As for all the other parts of Babylon the Great, this is a JW forum is it not ? And I 'don't do politics' I leave that to the rest of you. 
Look, it's quite simple. Yeshua showed up the faults of the Pharisees etc, but do you say that He had OCD because He did that ?   Yes, Yeshua had the right to judge them, and you might say i have no right to judge the GB and the Org. But as I've said before, each of us judge things and people everey day. As an example, it seems that tom has judged me to be a moron. But seriously, we all judge what we believe, who we believe, what is truth and what is lies. In my opinion we do not one day without making judgements of some type. You judge me and accuse me of OCD. 
If by giving the warnings that I gave, it helps to save one child from abuse, then I will be happy. If by giving the information that i give it helps just one person to steer clear of lies and destruction, then i will be satisfied.  And Yeshua will judge me. 
 

WTJWorg points out, as far as I can remember, two things related to “salvation”; these are place and state. The place is - the JW Congregation which is part of the WTS legal body. The condition is - full membership in the congregation as a baptized member or as an unbaptized member on the way to baptism, or an individual as part of the family being baptized.
It is not entirely clear to me that you are reprimanding me for some things while at the same time you see / look at things like me, and you notice the problems of the "YHVH organization".

☺️  When wheels spin they make a sound, right? Thoughts put into words. The sound of the  spinning wheels in the brains of the GB, have produced their insane teachings.  "Conflate" - Instead of naming the list of doctrine, "Beliefs Clarified", "Beliefs Conflated" would be more appropriate.
Thanks for that.
 
 

@Srecko Sostar "WTJWorg describes its organization as a “place of salvation,” as Noah’s ark."
 
 
 
She undoubtedly believes that the organization is the means of salvation, but here comes the conflict:
@Arauna - No the Org. is NOT the means to our salvation... but Jesus' ransom  and his father Jehovah. 
I notice double blindness is rampant among JWs, a deflecting of any evidence verifying what the GB teaches, and what a JW may believe.  As Arauna many times does, they seem to pick and choose the doctrines they prefer, or the wording they prefer, while dismissing what the leaders may teach in that regard. This, while still holding in reverence, the self-elected position of these false teachers. (Matt 24:24,25; 48-51)  Only exjws who bring out the conflict of belief, as Srecko did, are the “haters”, those with "OCD". JWs can question a doctrine, perhaps realizing it is a lie, and at the same time support the leaders who taught the lie.  That's really all that a JW must do to preserve their place in the organization.  And like Arauna, they are not aware of their own “present truth” – present truth for that year, and for that month. Obviously, Wt. doctrine is hard to keep up with. 
The labels “governing body”, “faithful slave”, “elders”, “organization”, are defended, ruthlessly.  Truths and lies can come and go, but according to Samuel Herd, UNITY to those labels, to the concept behind them; unity practiced at all costs, and defense of men -  their idol and their bogus leadership -  are the only glue that holds these blind people captive in the Wt. (Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; 3:17)
I have four geese, two male, two female, who defend their nest when they are put up each evening.  No matter what feed, what treats they are given, the males attack ruthlessly.  They could starve to death if allowed, if I walked away and let them defend their “organized” haven.  Yes, if I let them, they would create their own famine, just as JWs have done, out of blind spiritual, stiff-necked stupidity.  (Amos 8:11; Rev 18:8)
They refuse to face the truth.  2 Thess 2:9-12
 
How to identify true prophets
 

That does not prove that the JW Org is the means to salvation. 
As for baptism I've often wondered who has the 'authority' from God through Yeshua, to baptise people. The instruction was given to the disciples / apostles, that became the Anointed ones at that time.
Also Yeshua gave specific instruction in how to baptise
Berean Study Bible Matthew 28 : 19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,"
But your Org does not follow those instructions, so their baptism is false. 
I think a person should be baptised as a Christian, not as a member of an Organisation. 
I do wonder, if we are all allowed to preach and teach, then should we all be allowed to baptise others ? 
As for dedication, JWs dedicate themselves to the GB and it's Org, not to YHWH through Yeshua. This can easily be shown by the fact that JWs will preach / teach only the things that the GB / Org tells them to preach / teach.  
Time has shown that to be fact and proven it to be so wrong. And people will have died because of it. 

Thank you Srecko. That article certainly does show that the GB were making that comparison.
Quote 11. "However, we do well to remember that only those actually inside Noah’s ark survived the Flood."
"12 We therefore have reason to think carefully about our personal situation. Are we actually inside Jehovah’s arrangement of spiritual protection? When the great tribulation strikes, tears of joy and thankfulness will stream down the faces of those who have sought such protection. For others, there will be only tears of sorrow and regret."
"13 Jehovah has brought about progressive adjustments in the earthly part of his organization....."
I think Srecko has proven the point through that JW article. 

That THOUGHT was still around in the 1960's and 70's here in England in the JW religion. 
And added to that was,( and probably still is) that 'You have to be a baptised JW to be saved'. 
Those two THOUGHTS were pushed on newly interested ones here in England. (I know, I was that 'soldier') 

And you are no part of it...... so it seems.

Confused i am. Because quote from 2006 said:
Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006366

…. Just before the last battle, and the final test, and the Kingdom is turned over to Jehovah God, and mankind has reached perfection, there will be an unsuccessful global rebellion  to take over the World, by an evil alliance of German Shepherds, and French Poodles.

Just out of curiosity (the lawyers thing made me think of this) ....How many people imagine the new world to be completely conflict free?

Another assumption:
- Russell fulfilled the role of  John the Baptist
- GB fulfills the role of Jesus
Or it is just a matter of self-appointment and self-proclamation?...made by individuals or/and by collective.