Srecko Sostar

Correct, and ... "shunning practice" stands between state money and WTJWorg pocket.  

That’s why GB decided in one of his past decisions to have JWs in Mexico give up their “biblical principles and standards” in order to retain material ownership. Matter of Conscience or Hypocrisy? 

M. Introvigne is not one of those who I would consider as objective critics and who would impress me with his opinion. When he says, I quote: "They are simply excluded from the family's religious activities, but otherwise the normal family relationships, including the marital relationship between husband and wife, continue", he repeats the mantra from the WT publication, which obscures the real state of life of such spiritually separated families.
I have already stated in another topic that three children suffered severe emotional suffering because the mother under the influence of the elders prevented the children from keeping up with the excluded father, who no longer lived with them in the same household. The elders called the children to account when they found out about "illegal" contacts, in several occasions. The youngest child had suicidal thoughts, self-harm and was in fact completely mentally incapable of life. If the father has left his family this is enough for a negative effect on the children, and if the elders and religion forbid them to associate with the father, then the church leaders take responsibility for everything after that.
Another example is one “awakened JW” whom his wife managed to “blackmail” to break her “rebellious spirit”. Now that man is PIMO (physically inside mentally outside). If a wife has to respect her husband within the marital union, why does one JW sister blackmail her husband into not becoming an “apostate”? Is she doing it (blackmail) under the influence of her conscience or is she under the influence of the “cult” of religion?
 

Fortunately, Jesus told us AS INDIVIDUALS exactly and in precise detail how to chastise disobedient ones, and AS INDIVIDUALS what to do next.
The question remains, are we doing it “just so”  ….. or just so that power and money are preserved?
(Matthew Chapter 18, emphasizing verse 15).
Anything more than that is brazen self aggrandizing tyranny, and usurpation of the authority of the Christ.
….. it is also cruel and unfair!
 

In the 1947 Awake! the idea of shunning as the Catholics did it, and the way that we do it TODAY is described as:

What principle changed since 1947?
Hebrews 10:26-31 (…. Also emphasized in the 1947 Awake!.)

What part of verse 30 changed since 1947?
 

It seems they are more concerned about law than about serving YHWH through Christ. 
I would love to read the Watchtower / GB policy on all this. 

I suspect it will two years before we are again allowed to treat people decently.
Here is how it was a year after I was born, as explained in the 1947 Awake! Magazine.
 

quote from document:
The content of the complaint
In the complaint, it is mainly stated that the religious community does not violate the Religious Communities Act §§ 2 and 6, and that the State Administrator's decision is incorrect. It is also stated that the decision violates sections 16 and 101 of the Constitution and Articles 9 and 11 of the ECHR.
The religious community writes in the complaint that they do not prevent anyone from opting out and that their exclusionary practice is protected under ECHR art. 9. They also write that children in practice are not excluded, and that the State Administrator has in any case not proved that the exclusion harms the children.
 

I assume that Norway might have similarities to Denmark where religion is not taken all that seriously. (It took my sister about 12 years to finally get Danish citizenship after marrying a Dane and living in the country. Now that their kids are grown, she and her husband are working in the US, where he has to keep getting his papers renewed.)
Denmark subsidizes religions so that there is a place to have birth celebrations, baptisms, weddings and funerals. And for many citizens, the churches are a good avenue for both socializing and organizing charity. But churches in Denmark mirror the growing secularity of the people in the country. I've done some door-to-door work there and met almost no one who took religious teachings seriously. It was good for traditional reasons only.
I think that there is an argument, then, that the Witnesses lose out because they take religion too seriously. There are probably others, especially individuals who might take their religion seriously enough to completely disengage from a former member who rejects the teachings. But these other religions, from what I have seen, do not make shunning an imposed policy. It's effectively only a matter of individual conscience. 
If Denmark is any example, there was a Witness we knew in Copenhagen who tells us that they completely cut off their son who had a thriving construction and HVAC business, but mostly contracting with other Witnesses as clients or with the businesses of those other Witnesses. If his son had been disfellowshipped for adultery there would have been no problem, but instead he was disfellowshipped for disagreement with teachings (unspecified), and gave no indication that he would ever recant. I got the feeling that son has become agnostic or atheist. What bothered me was the pride that this brother (the father) had in the fact that by cutting off his son, he was also able to get most people in the congregation(s) to boycott his business and was pushing him toward financial ruin. He was sure that this would either serve as appropriate punishment or could even be the "tough love" that might make him rethink and recant.
I really find it hard to imagine that other religions in Denmark (or possibly Norway) take their religious teachings so seriously. But the whole issue might also have been avoided if shunning was always brought up as a matter of conscience, and Biblical examples were used to help indicate why some Witnesses might choose to shun (for certain circumstances) and others might not.

quote from document:
The reasons for the decision
The Religious Society Act sets several conditions for being able to receive state support. In our investigations, we uncovered several violations of the Religious Communities Act.
1.
Right to free withdrawal according to the Religious Communities Act § 2 Persons who voluntarily leave the faith community shall be treated in the same way as excluded members. This means that remaining members, family and friends, will not have contact with the excluded. The preparatory work for the Religious Communities Act § 2 points out that the right to freedom of religion presupposes that withdrawal can take place unconditionally and without obstacles on the part of the religious or philosophical community. By having rules for how the members should relate to excluded members, we found that the religious community prevents withdrawal. We regard the practice as a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 2
2.
Baptized minors may be excluded The exclusionary practice applies not only to adults, but also to baptized minors. This means that children can be excluded if they break the rules of the religious community. We have considered this practice to be a negative social control, and that it therefore violates children's rights. The religious Society itself describes the practice as a "strong form of correction". We consider this a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 6.
3.
Minor members may be exposed to social isolation For other children in the congregation who have not yet been baptized but who are considered “unbaptized publishers,” there is a similar practice of exclusion. If unbaptized publishers violate community rules, they should be deprived of the status of publisher and congregation members should avoid contact with them. We have considered this treatment as negative social control, and in violation of the child's rights. We also regard this as a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 6.
presuda Norveškog suda o uskraćivanju državnog financiranja JW 20220330LTI_no.pdfpresuda Norveškog suda o uskraćivanju državnog financiranja JW 20220330LTI_no.pdf

quote from document:
The reasons for the decision
The Religious Society Act sets several conditions for being able to receive state support. In our investigations, we uncovered several violations of the Religious Communities Act.
1.
Right to free withdrawal according to the Religious Communities Act § 2 Persons who voluntarily leave the faith community shall be treated in the same way as excluded members. This means that remaining members, family and friends, will not have contact with the excluded. The preparatory work for the Religious Communities Act § 2 points out that the right to freedom of religion presupposes that withdrawal can take place unconditionally and without obstacles on the part of the religious or philosophical community. By having rules for how the members should relate to excluded members, we found that the religious community prevents withdrawal. We regard the practice as a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 2
2.
Baptized minors may be excluded The exclusionary practice applies not only to adults, but also to baptized minors. This means that children can be excluded if they break the rules of the religious community. We have considered this practice to be a negative social control, and that it therefore violates children's rights. The religious Society itself describes the practice as a "strong form of correction". We consider this a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 6.
3.
Minor members may be exposed to social isolation For other children in the congregation who have not yet been baptized but who are considered “unbaptized publishers,” there is a similar practice of exclusion. If unbaptized publishers violate community rules, they should be deprived of the status of publisher and congregation members should avoid contact with them. We have considered this treatment as negative social control, and in violation of the child's rights. We also regard this as a violation of the Religious Communities Act § 6.
presuda Norveškog suda o uskraćivanju državnog financiranja JW 20220330LTI_no.pdfpresuda Norveškog suda o uskraćivanju državnog financiranja JW 20220330LTI_no.pdf

From  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174
Truths?  Or Insanity?
 
 
 
 

Perhaps you should put a few things into perspective.

With doing Krav Maga for several years and gone through dis-arming training, fortunatley I have not come into a situation where I need to put my training to real life use.

I haven't heard this version. :))  But this version reminds me of stories in assembly lectures and behind-the-scenes stories many decades ago. The story goes that we will be amazed to see among the survivors of Armageddon in the “New World” those we didn’t think would be there, and we won’t see those we were sure would be in NW.
 

I haven't heard this version. :))  But this version reminds me of stories in assembly lectures and behind-the-scenes stories many decades ago. The story goes that we will be amazed to see among the survivors of Armageddon in the “New World” those we didn’t think would be there, and we won’t see those we were sure would be in NW.
 

I think this is a very important point that needs to be emphasize more, because when you think about it it’s about 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses and perhaps 10% of them are being unjustly chastised now…… But they are perhaps 8 million UkrainiansThat are being chastised unto death.
Right now.
As we speak.
At a place we can put our finger on, on the map.
My sister just asked me “have you heard the latest from jw.org on the persecution that is coming?”.
I replied that I had not, and I was not worried about it at all. She asked “what do you mean by that?“.
I replied that when persecution comes if I’m unable to perceive it, it’s not really persecution, and if it does come I will certainly know it, and being afraid of it for 20 years or more when I can do absolutely nothing about it in any way whatsoever is an exercise in futility…… Like people that like to watch horror movies so they can be scared.
I will certainly know when the persecution comes, because I will see over my left or right shoulder bullet holes in the walls, or looking down, see bullet holes in my body, or if I get shot in the head it won’t matter at all.
I am completely disregarding the fact that all I have to do is change my breathing patterns, and I can avoid any persecution, permanently. ( I learned to do that as a teenager, reading about the folks in India who could do such things ).
to recap:   There is absolutely nothing I can do about it if that sort of persecution comes that the Bible talks about, so why worry about it?
it reminds me of the story of the grasshopper and the ant, what you may have heard before.
There was this grasshopper who was very lazy and liked  to play on his fiddle during the long summer days while all during that time the industrious ant was collecting food and storing it underground for the long hard winter to come.
Month after month the grasshopper sang songs and played his fiddle, not worried about anything, while the ant stored up more and more food underground, understanding that the ” … time was short”.
Then one day, as the first snow of Winter dusted the landscape, as the grasshopper and the ant were crossing the road a car stopped and a man got out.
He watched the grasshopper and ant for a minute, stepped on the ant, and took the grasshopper to Florida.

Thank you. Good confirmation of my thinking. If the writer of these words established this claim about 2,000 years ago, then he certainly covered a period that goes back to his life, that is, before him, and includes many generations that lived before he was born. The constant I wrote about exists. 
The Apostle Paul, what did he mean by "whole of creation"? Animals, plants, human? Worshipers of true and false gods? JW and ex-JW? Etc.
Those who say that nothing has changed in the world have pretty good arguments. What has changed within WTJWorg since it existed? Well, a lot and nothing. Why nothing? Because GB continues to produce inaccurate doctrines as in Russell’s beginnings. A constant that will non-stop follow you as long as you exist as an organization.

How many millions of Ukrainians are currently being attacked by Satan? 
How many millions of JWs are currently being attacked by Satan?

Thank you. Good confirmation of my thinking. If the writer of these words established this claim about 2,000 years ago, then he certainly covered a period that goes back to his life, that is, before him, and includes many generations that lived before he was born. The constant I wrote about exists. 
The Apostle Paul, what did he mean by "whole of creation"? Animals, plants, human? Worshipers of true and false gods? JW and ex-JW? Etc.
Those who say that nothing has changed in the world have pretty good arguments. What has changed within WTJWorg since it existed? Well, a lot and nothing. Why nothing? Because GB continues to produce inaccurate doctrines as in Russell’s beginnings. A constant that will non-stop follow you as long as you exist as an organization.

How many millions of Ukrainians are currently being attacked by Satan? 
How many millions of JWs are currently being attacked by Satan?

Yes but was @Thinking  suggesting that YHWH 'allows' Child Sexual Abuse to happen continuously, and that each child should just suffer in silence because "Jehovah will put things right in the end" as the GB teaches. 
Is that the 'teaching' of the JW Org ? That even children should be 'tested' from inside the congregation. 

Applying Godly Wisdom.  Yes.  BUT from a JWs viewpoint it seems that 'Godly Wisdom' only comes from the GB and from Elders. 
In my opinon, my leaving the JW Org was applying Godly wisdom. Also in my opinion my warning others about the serious problems in the JW Org is applying Godly wisdom and showing love to other people. 
But I doubt you would agree. Tom, applying Godly wisdom means different things to different people. 

If we take into account the various events described in the Bible, then we come to the conclusion that "faithfulness to God" is proved by enduring the terrible circumstances of life, but also by giving life, as a sort of sacrifice to God, while adhering to the principles. There are also fewer examples in which God in a supernatural way saves the lives of believers from the hands of evildoers. They mostly die in hope.
I wanted to say that the concept applied to Job differs greatly when it comes to the majority of humanity, whether they are worshipers of the “true God” or not.

Thanks for the reminder. Their conversation was a kind of bet, and it was less about “allowing” in the concept of ideology we discuss. Furthermore, does this one kind of “agreement” between god and devil mean that it applies to all people after Job? In addition, God forbade the killing of Job. So what kind of concept is this that applies to all people from Job to the present day?