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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in National Redress Scheme - Australia   
    https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/institutions/search?search_api_views_fulltext=jehovah
    I went to this link, and noticed that 976 JW assemblies are listed that are associated with the scheme by name. So each JW entity (congregation) accessed separately. The Chief Bethel in Australia did not do it for them.
  2. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Thinking in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    Interestingly, when describing conflicts between angels (good versus bad) or between Jesus and demon-possessed people, the death of a defeated angel (on both sides) never happened. It was mostly that the influence of one or more angels on some events ceased or the demon's obsession with someone ceased, so that demon moved its influence to something else.
    Descriptions of battles or wars are too symbolically described in the Bible when it comes to angels, and this is sometimes the case in some descriptions related to humans.
  3. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Thinking in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    I’m on the fence with this peace and security…so I cannot answer to that,
  4. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in National Redress Scheme - Australia   
    Today I opened the official National Redress Scheme website.
    WT Australia has long refused to join this program. But I see a change. JW has teamed up with many other institutions.
    Two things are interesting.
    First: The tacit confirmation of the GB leader that the CSA is an institutional problem within WT Australia (and globally for the whole of WTJWorg).
    Second: Paying damages to victims is cheaper this way than through litigation.
    https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/institutions
  5. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Thinking in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    According to your publication on jwlibrary:
    “And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” (Revelation 12:5, 6)
     The child is “a son, a male.”............Therefore, the birth seen by John closely involves Jesus Christ. No, it is not Jesus’ being born of a virgin back before the first century of our Common Era; nor could it refer to Jesus’ being raised again to spirit life in 33 C.E. Furthermore, it is no transmigration. Rather, it is the birth of God’s Kingdom in 1914 as a reality, with Jesus—now in heaven for close to 20 centuries—enthroned as King.—Revelation 12:10. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988027
    WT JWorg interpreted biblical passages in such a way that the Kingdom is represented by the birth of a child, a baby. So I just used your terminology in my comment.
    Next thing is that another sort of birth pains in 1 Thess are used not for 1914 but for period of time after proclamation of “peace and security”.
    Your comment about birth pains was connected to GREAT WAR, aka WW1 in 1914, and not with 1 Thess.  So, i assume you are speaking about Jesus Kingdom from Revelation. Sorry  
    …it certainly was a GREAT WAR ..like never before it rocked the earth and set the foundation for the second GREAT WAR…they say in the scientific world that it actually affected everyone genetically …their trauma and PTSD was I imprinted  in their genes to be passed on to their children …it really was like no other War…perhaps the first  -PAINFUL -pang felt from that pregnant woman.
     
     
  6. Confused
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Thinking in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    Then things could be presented in such a way that the spiritual kingdom was born in heaven in 1914, and that the earthly kingdom will be born on earth in the future. So we have two births of one (same) child.
  7. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    This is exactly the point. Thanks. The Watchtower has ALWAYS turned the generation into a zone of dates. When the Watchtower's previous zone of dates was no longer tenable, there was an excellent opportunity to understand it in the way that Robert Wohl would have described it. But instead, it became a zone of dates again when it was "determined" that the great tribulation must occur within the zone of dates before a younger generation of anointed (whose lives overlapped with the earlier generation of anointed) would themselves die out:
    *** w10 6/15 p. 5 United in Love—Annual Meeting Report ***
    Brother Barr made clear that the gathering would not continue indefinitely. He referred to Matthew 24:34, which says: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” He twice read the comment: “Jesus evidently meant that the lives of the anointed ones who were on hand when the sign began to be evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.” We do not know the exact length of “this generation,” but it includes these two groups whose lives overlap. Even though the anointed vary in age, those in the two groups constituting the generation are contemporaries during part of the last days. How comforting it is to know that the younger anointed contemporaries of those older anointed ones who discerned the sign when it became evident beginning in 1914 will not die off before the great tribulation starts!
    As Brother Splane has explained, by using a chart, that generation has now become a zone of dates from 1914 (through at least 1992 when Fred Franz died) and then extending only so far out as to when the last of the once-contemporary, younger "generation" of anointed have not completely died out.
    That definition, although very specific, has become rather sloppy in the retelling. Just note the following two points that are now part of the explanation. I'll mark in red, the points that are problematic:
    *** ws14 1/15 pp. 30-31 pars. 14-16 “Let Your Kingdom Come”—But When? ***
    When prophecy was not fulfilled in the way that they expected in 1914, what did they do? Most of them continued serving Jehovah faithfully and endured trials and persecution. Over the years, most, if not all, of those anointed ones have remained faithful until death.
    15 In his prophecy about the last days of Satan’s world, Jesus said: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” (Read Matthew 24:33-35.) When Jesus mentioned “this generation,” we understand that he was speaking about two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was present in 1914 and understood that Christ began ruling as King in that year. Those who made up this group were not only alive in 1914, but they had also been anointed by holy spirit in or before that year.—Romans 8:14-17.
    16 All those in the second group included in “this generation” were not simply alive but were anointed with holy spirit during the time that some members of the first group were still alive on earth. So not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” whom Jesus spoke about. Today, those in the second group are getting older. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 make us confident that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation.
    '...most, if not all..."
    I'm not sure about the purpose of the claim made here, but the early Watchtowers indicated that "most" of the anointed during the period leading up to 1914 actually left the Watchtower Society. Many left immediately after 1914 failed to include the predictions for that year. (The Watchtower later pointed to 1915 as the actual date for the end of the Gentile Times.)  A much larger portion left during the 1917-1918 period based on the actions taken by Rutherford. By 1927-1928 when so many of Russell's teachings had been abandoned, it was apparently "MOST" of those who had been considered anointed in 1914 who had left the Watchtower Society by then. A few exceptions actually came back to the Watchtower. Long-time Governing Body member, Brother Karl Klein, left the Watchtower to join the Standfasters (Part of the "evil slave," per Rutherford), but Brother Klein came back. Listening to the stories and experiences from Karl Klein and Fred Franz and my great-grandfather, and one-time colporteur Percy Harding, they all claimed that it was MOST of the anointed who had been unfaithful, at least to the Watchtower. If the Watchtower's statement above is correct, it must be based on the idea that they were still faithful to Jehovah even after leaving the Watchtower Society, or that those who left were never anointed in the first place.
    This is reminiscent of the claim made in 1982 about the earlier Liberian persecution:
    *** w82 4/15 p. 26 par. 19 Enduring Joyfully Despite Persecution ***
    While a few did give way and compromise because of fear, the great majority maintained integrity.
    After that claim was made, someone pointed out the error and a correction was printed:
    *** w82 7/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
    . . . However, the Yearbook for 1977 states that the majority compromised their faith. Why this discrepancy?
    The statement in The Watchtower for April 15, 1982, is in error. Actually, according to the Yearbook of 1977, pages 176 and 178, there were about 100 Liberian Witnesses who went through the Gbarnga persecution maintaining integrity, while approximately 200 compromised their faith.
    "The first group was present in 1914 and understood that Christ began ruling as King in that year."
    I think that all of us know the problem with this claim. The first group that was present in 1914 did NOT understand that Christ began ruling as King in that year. For several more years, they all continued to claim that Jesus did NOT begin ruling as King in that year. Instead, the Watchtower continued to teach them that Jesus had begun ruling as King in 1878. Hints came about half-a-decade later that this date might change, or even get pushed back from 1878 to 1874 (See Rutherford's famous Cedar Point talk in 1922). But it wasn't until more than a decade later, in the late 1920's and early 1930's that 1914 became the new date for Jesus to have begun ruling as King.
    In fact, the idea that Jesus had been invisibly present since 1874 did not become officially and fully revised until 1943:
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” . . .  Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. . . .  Page 324 of the above book positively says: “The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914.”
    So, if none of the anointed ever really discerned the sign of Jesus Kingship and presence in 1914, and didn't discern it until 1943, then perhaps there wasn't even a real need to come up with the overlapping generations theory. I personally know someone who was anointed before 1943 who is still alive and faithful.
  8. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    What is the problem with fitting something new into an existing entirety / complex that has worked almost "smoothly" until then? 
    Instead of analyzing through my own "intellectual exertion" (perhaps on another occasion) I used a biblical quote from the Gospel of Mark.
    21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the patch  tears away  from  it, the new from the old, and a worse tear is made. 22 And no one puts new wine into old qwineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins—and the  wine is destroyed, and so are the skins.  But  new wine  is  for fresh wineskins.”
  9. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    You just reminded me to wonder; What is the difference between “perfect spiritual food” that does not exist in WTJWorg, because GB themselves say that food is not perfect, compared to “spiritual food at the proper time”?
    If something important to us came at the best moment, then it is great or "perfect".
    But now we need to ask ourselves what is it that needs to be “perfect”? The moment when something comes or the thing / phenomenon that comes?
    Both, if we seek and expect the best.
    This opens up a new dimension of thinking. The "best spiritual food in proper time" is adapted to the time/moment and generation of the recipient. Every new best spiritual food at proper time needs to be adapted to new circumstances and new people. That is why WTJWorg is changing doctrines.
  10. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    "We have to be absolutely sure that everything fits."
     
     
     
  11. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Dmitar in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    This conclusion seems fine to me.
    But as often happens, that word appears - but.
    At the time of the doctrine popularly called "the 1914 generation", we do not know today which people took part in it and how they led the debates, which of them were for, which were against, and which abstained. We today do not know what motivated these people and whether they were simply mistaken in believing in the wrong idea.
    Or were they actually right so that the second / third coming of the Kingdom actually took place within the "generation of 1914", but in a different way than expected and which remained invisible to WTJWorg and JW members?
    But let’s get back to a simpler reality. When WTJWorg concluded that “Jesus thought differently” and that "he actually meant" the “overlapping generation,” then it could be said and written in official documents (WT literature):
    That the former WTJWorg leadership taught the wrong doctrine because they believed in delusion and misconception. Why they believed in delusion and thought wrongly? Because they didn't know the real truth. We believe in another idea today. If this idea turns out to be wrong in the future, you need to know that we didn’t want to lie to you but that we just sincerely believed we were right this time.
     
  12. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Pudgy in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    That sounds like the “Prostitutes wear shoes… you wear shoes … so you must be a prostitute” fallacy, TTH.
  13. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Pudgy in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    It was not meant as a taunt to make you angry, it was meant as a challenge to make you think.



  14. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Pudgy in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    I understand.
    I have asked several Elders, who could not explain it either. 
    One Elder was the smartest man at our Kingdom Hall. After I asked him he paused and replied (paraphrased) “I think they are trying the best they know how …”

    My gut feeling is that when Jesus was talking about “ …. This generation will not pass away until all these things occur … “, he meant HIS generation .. not the death of Fred Franz, as shown on GB Bro. David Splain’s chart. ( if memory serves …..)
    Whatever the case, I am sure the REAL TRUTH about the matter is what’re the Apostles understood the term “this generation” to mean, and I am guessing Jesus did not have a chart to explain it.
     
  15. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    If the invisible Jesus from heaven chooses a few people of flesh and blood on earth to be FDS, isn't that a "miracle"?
    Did these people hear Jesus speak to them from heaven? Then it's a "miracle."
    Did these people feel an invisible force that enlightened their minds and hearts and led them to some deed? Then it's a "miracle."
     
    If there was none of that, then maybe it’s self-proclamation, right? Then it's not a "miracle". I agree with you on that.
  16. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ illustration about the faithful slave? In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost 33 C.E., Jesus appointed the faithful slave over his domestics. The slave represents all anointed Christians on earth as a group at any one time since then. The domestics refer to the same anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings”—all his earthly Kingdom interests. However, further careful study and prayerful meditation indicate that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be clarified. (Prov. 4:18) Let us examine the illustration and how it involves us, whether we have the heavenly or the earthly hope............. 
     The faithful slave must be made up of anointed Christians on earth............
    In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics...........
     In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. - https://www.jw.org/ase/library/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/
  17. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    This is a problem for one reason only, which is explained in WTJWorg with wording; Miracles ceased in the first century.
    If the miracles stopped in the first century, then it is to be expected that the anointing from heaven (act of miracle) in the year 1919 did not happen ..... because miracles do not actually happen anymore.
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    In my comment, after quoting a quote from the WT study journal, I left a link.
    After reading that magazine, we can conclude that you believed in that explanation until 2013. After that GB changed the doctrine.
    Of course, the GB explanation has a lot of weird connotations. According to them, the apostles are a kind of typical model, but the real fulfillment happened only in 1919.
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    If the invisible Jesus from heaven chooses a few people of flesh and blood on earth to be FDS, isn't that a "miracle"?
    Did these people hear Jesus speak to them from heaven? Then it's a "miracle."
    Did these people feel an invisible force that enlightened their minds and hearts and led them to some deed? Then it's a "miracle."
     
    If there was none of that, then maybe it’s self-proclamation, right? Then it's not a "miracle". I agree with you on that.
  20. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ illustration about the faithful slave? In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost 33 C.E., Jesus appointed the faithful slave over his domestics. The slave represents all anointed Christians on earth as a group at any one time since then. The domestics refer to the same anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings”—all his earthly Kingdom interests. However, further careful study and prayerful meditation indicate that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be clarified. (Prov. 4:18) Let us examine the illustration and how it involves us, whether we have the heavenly or the earthly hope............. 
     The faithful slave must be made up of anointed Christians on earth............
    In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics...........
     In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. - https://www.jw.org/ase/library/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    The act of anointing may or may not be a "miracle."
    It depends on who is doing the anointing. Also for what purpose the anointing was done.
    The Bible reports on various types of anointing. Some are made with oil on the head, some are made with fragrant oil on the feet, some are made with “spirit” and with “power”.
    Some anointings were done by women. Jesus also experienced that the woman “anointed” him.
    So what kind of “anointing” was it, when we talk about the people of 1919 in the WTS?
  22. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    Have you experienced an anointing to know this?  It is an unforgettable supernatural event, and those events are "miracles".  People fondly call the birth of a child a "miracle".  An anointing is being spiritually "born again".  Any act of God through His Holy Spirit, is a miracle.  John 3:3-8; 2 Cor 1:21-22; 5:17
     
     
  23. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    It is clear to everyone that generations overlap, and not just two of them, but dozens of generations overlap in a certain period of time, in fact continuously from the beginning of man's existence to the present day.
    But that’s not what GB would like to point out when talking about the “overlapping generation” that completely replaces the ONE and ONLY  "The 1914 generation".
  24. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    This is a problem for one reason only, which is explained in WTJWorg with wording; Miracles ceased in the first century.
    If the miracles stopped in the first century, then it is to be expected that the anointing from heaven (act of miracle) in the year 1919 did not happen ..... because miracles do not actually happen anymore.
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    It is clear to everyone that generations overlap, and not just two of them, but dozens of generations overlap in a certain period of time, in fact continuously from the beginning of man's existence to the present day.
    But that’s not what GB would like to point out when talking about the “overlapping generation” that completely replaces the ONE and ONLY  "The 1914 generation".
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