Srecko Sostar

https://ibsaproperty.com/
IBSA Properties UK.  Estate Agents / Real Estate for big time properites. 
IBSA London Properties is part of IBSA (International Bible Students Association) a registered charity acting on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain and Ireland. For more information about Jehovah’s Witnesses please follow this link.
Watchtower Accounts UK
https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?subid=0&regid=1077961
Annual Returns UK
https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/3966490/accounts-and-annual-returns
Kingdom Hall trust
https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=275946&subid=0
 
 

I’m not sure if it’s possible to collect data on the annual revenue and annual expenditure of all WTJWorg companies, and there are thousands of them. Why I say thousands. Because in addition to those big and famous names that we associate with several legal bodies, there are thousands of assemblies/congregations that are essentially small branches of large companies worldwide.
What do I want to say? Several data could be found in the JW Yearbooks. Some information can be found online. But to sum up all the money (income and expenses)?
PS - Seeing the entry and exit of money by state or by branch is a difficult task.

It's good you are finally making an effort to think. 

:))This description is very similar to the descriptions of those people who believe in hell.

:)) this is so good. Dmitar is in this forum "club", but in the same time he isn't.

:)) this is so good. Dmitar is in this forum "club", but in the same time he isn't.

Independence ended with the arrival of Rutherford. 
Also keep in mind that in my comments on Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses, I have always had in mind one common link that has always connected them, regardless of the individuals who have later sided with this or that schism. Continuity of WTBTS.
All those who remained faithful to their "spiritual mother", the so-called "earthly organization" or WTBTS Company, regardless of changes in external name / label are proof that all beliefs, past or present, are what binds them together. They have common legacy.
That’s why the claim how JWs once celebrated Christmas is correct. Because today's JWs who do not celebrate Christmas any more are members of the same Organization under whose auspices and authority Christmas was celebrated in the past. Today’s JWs can defend themselves by claiming that they do not believe what Bible Students once believed, and that therefore it is not their past and legacy. But such a claim is completely incorrect. Because both, former and current believers, are members, they are followers of one and the same Corporation that has the legal continuity.

Please look, what was the ancient nation of Israel, for example (not to mention Abel as first witness and period of Moses and formation of nation)? Well they were Witnesses for YHVH, right? I guess that's how they felt and how God wanted to be. And they were not Christians.  

I am just saying that it was in the past and today there are people who can be considered Witnesses for YHVH, and whose status before God is their own or our interpretation.
 

If we believe that people are sincere in their intentions, at least in the beginning of their activities, then we can believe in the good intentions of Russell and the then Autonomous Assemblies. I suppose the “movement” begins in a way that the people within it have a more liberal position.
Than when the “movement” ceases to be a mere movement against the established Church institution that led to the gathering of people in the Bible Students formation.
In time, it became clear that these independent groups of people should be kept together, in a uniform manner, if they wanted to maintain the specific direction. On the other hand, this uniformity and striving for unity easily becomes institutionalized and organized like those of other institutions that caused the BS Movement to emerge. 
The existence of a class of elders (and an extra class of FDS with its Helpers) and those who are not, in today’s JW assemblies has brought WTJWorg closer to the Catholic Church hierarchy against which JW preaches. A Catholic priest talks about hell, and a JW priest talks about Armageddon. Theology differs but the authoritative position of both is the same. 
An administrative breakpoint could be found, and you mentioned some date about it.  The breaking point is just the culmination of the onset of dissatisfaction in people who worked on making change happen in a period of time before the change was announced in public. WTBTS continued to make administrative changes after Rutherford. 

Apologize, but it doesn't even need to be said in such clear words.
It is enough to observe a change in doctrines so it can easily be concluded that JWs do not believe in many things that were an integral part of the beliefs of their predecessors (no matter of their name). In any period of time from the first apostles of Jesus to the present day. (
Moreover, JWs do not even believe in those doctrines that have recently been an integral part of “true worship” (I’m talking about periods from a few months to a few years back, even not need to go in past decades). Jesus ’apostles expected the establishment of the Kingdom durin their lifetime. JWs today claim they (apostles) had the wrong expectations. So JW today reject, apostolic, their then faith, their belief system on the matter).
Keep in mind one more thing about this issue, please nicely. Has it ever been said in WTJWorg literature in the last 50 or more years that “new light” came into the world because JW believed that “old light” was a false teaching? But the JWs stopped believing in “their own old light” (not only in the "light" of Bible Students).
So if JWs are willing to reject, to stop believing in their own "biblically established beliefs" then it will be even easier for them to abandon the beliefs of Bible Students.
Simple.
 

If we start from a simple formula in which today's JWs claim that YHVH has always had its Witnesses on this planet, which we can call Jehovah's Witnesses or Witnesses for Jehovah or otherwise, then Yes, one type of Jehovah's Witnesses celebrated Christmas at a time in the past.
If one wants to deny this, then one should make some facts or provable claims that could mark a certain group of people (Christians in last 20 centuries period) like/such as the Bible Students, that they can in no way be Witnesses for the true God  YHVH.

His claim about our "secret" communication is absurd. This could be due to some kind of paranoia, misinterpreted events on the forum or simply throwing a “hook”.
As you can see, I did not react to his statement because it is meaningless, and if anyone wants to believe in stupidity, good luck to him.  

I'll just sit on the edge of this school playground and watch the children fight.   It's good for a laugh. 

His claim about our "secret" communication is absurd. This could be due to some kind of paranoia, misinterpreted events on the forum or simply throwing a “hook”.
As you can see, I did not react to his statement because it is meaningless, and if anyone wants to believe in stupidity, good luck to him.  

His claim about our "secret" communication is absurd. This could be due to some kind of paranoia, misinterpreted events on the forum or simply throwing a “hook”.
As you can see, I did not react to his statement because it is meaningless, and if anyone wants to believe in stupidity, good luck to him.  

I suspect you already knew that @Srecko Sostar never called on me in any way. This is something you apparently just made up when you stated it as fact under another topic/thread.  But just in case you weren't aware, I thought I'd let you know. It will say a lot about your motives, if you continue to repeat this unfounded and false idea.

These comments are tools used by the GB to instill fear, where fear should not exist.  It is absolutely a pervasive fallacy to -
#1 – compare an uninspired GB to Moses, personally chosen by God as a prophet. 
#2 – claim that God’s representatives are the GB, when false prophets (which means they have predicted false dates and doctrine revealed as a lie…“old light”/”new light”) were prophesied to come against the “elect” in the last days. (Matt 24:24)  There were many false prophets in the nation of Israel, and if the governing leaders want to make the comparison of that ancient nation to themselves, why would the Wt., that holds anointed “Israel”, concentrate on the world’s religions and its false prophets, and not on the nation of “Israel”?  The comparison to yesterday’s Israel and today’s spiritual “Israel”, should hold in all cases; but it doesn’t, because, Wt.’s leaders are the false prophets.    (Matt 24:24,25; 7:15-20; Acts 20:28-31; 1 Tim 4:1; Col 2:8; Rev 13:11,12,15)
 #3 – to use the example of Korah against “apostates”
What was Korah rebelling against?
 Moses also told Korah, “Now listen, Levites! 9 Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the Israelite community to bring you near to himself, to perform the work at the Lord’s tabernacle, and to stand before the community to minister to them? 10 He has brought you near, and all your fellow Levites who are with you, but you are pursuing the priesthood as well. 11 Therefore, it is you and all your followers who have conspired against the Lord! As for Aaron, who is he that you should complain about him?”  Num 16
Most apostates are rebelling against false teachings, separation of families, child abuse, elder abuse by the Wt. securing inheritance that should rightly go to the children and many other valid reasons.
Korah was challenging who God chose as priests.  As the Watchtower states, he wanted to “secure the priesthood”.  Here’s the story as told in your magazine. “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002563
It states:
“Who make up this royal priesthood today? The apostle Peter answers that question in his first inspired letter. To anointed members of the body of Christ, Peter wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) 
Ever so smoothly, it presents the hidden challenge against God’s choice of priests –
“Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.”
But notice in paragraph 20, that the challenge, the battle against God’s choice of priests, continues covertly by your organization.
“Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”
Yes, it is stating that those who cannot “challenge” this man-made ruling that the elders are to act as priests, are the anointed priests and “living stones” of God’s Temple in Spirit! (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Didn’t Moses challenge – confront, dispute -  Korah’s blasphemous “challenge” against the priesthood?  And in the end, was Korah’s desire to secure the priesthood upheld by God, or was the Aaronic priesthood upheld by God? 
“…just as the Lord commanded him through Moses. It was to be a reminder for the Israelites that no unauthorized person outside the lineage of Aaron should approach to offer incense before the Lord and become like Korah and his followers.”  Num 16:14
Few would dare challenge an established elder body for such a reason, except the chosen priests of God.  Any who do challenge it, are tossed out and deemed spiritually dead as an apostate.  (John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:15)
Those few others who do see that the “man of lawlessness”/elder body “sits”/rules in the Temple dwelling of the Father, have left the organization.  They perceive the “abomination standing in the holy place”.    Matt 24:14,15; Rev 13:1,5-7,18
The leadership has apostatized against God’s decrees concerning His priesthood, and are ruling as “wicked slaves” over JWs and the anointed priesthood. (Matt 24:48-51) It is JWs who are the blind ones, and who have rejected God’s laws which are written on the anointed heart, for the laws of men.  (1 John 2:27;Heb 8:10)  How, can anyone read that Watchtower and not see that the elder body has "secured the priesthood"?  They have to be spiritually blinded by evil. (1 Tim 4:1)
2 Thess 2:1-4 – “Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. (1914) 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.”
The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with every kind of miracle, both signs and wonders serving the lie, 10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.
 
Is the organization preaching that JWs are “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”?  Or, to the godly authority of an idol where the “man of lawlessness” resides? 
The Disgusting Thing Standing in the Holy Place

Among Israel, there were many more bad kings than there were good ones.  When the bad kings ruled, idolatry and the sins of the people prevented God from protecting them.  There were false prophets who misled the people, and God would say, "don't listen to them".  (Jer 23:16)  The organization's leadership, expect each JW to listen to them, even if their have taught a lie for years.  Their word wields more power over JWs, than the advice, the warning, the words of God and His Son.  The people suffered when the rulership became domineering, abusive, breaking their covenant with God which required obedience to His laws.  Only remnants of repentant ones, who realized their sins and called out to God for help, were taken back with open arms.  That cannot be translated into "apostates" returning to an organization that has told lies from the beginning. 
The Wt's "kings" who rule over 8 million people, are domineering, abusive, and have broken their covenant with God by instituting man-made rules necessary for  the operation of an organization.  That is the same pattern that has occurred in the scriptures.  God's full laws in Christ have been broken by the insertion of just one of the Wt's many doctrines of men. Doctrines that are forever changing and are never to be found correct.  They have added and taken away from the word of God and JWs tolerate it.
No, God does not allow His Spirit to bless a people who reject the teachings of Jesus Christ, and condone the teachings of men.  Although they may speak of them, the leadership has rejected God and His Son.  When the nation of Israel was sinning and committing idolatry, out of one side of their mouth, they would also praise God.  That didn't go well in Elijah's day.  (1 Kings 18:21)
1 Sam 8 - 
So all the elders of Israel gathered together and went to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Therefore, appoint a king to judge us the same as all the other nations have.”
6 When they said, “Give us a king to judge us,” Samuel considered their demand wrong, so he prayed to the Lord. 7 But the Lord told him, “Listen to the people and everything they say to you. They have not rejected you; they have rejected Me as their King. 8 They are doing the same thing to you that they have done to me, since the day I brought them out of Egypt until this day, abandoning Me and worshiping other gods. 9 Listen to them, but solemnly warn them and tell them about the customary rights of the king who will reign over them.”
10 Samuel told all the Lord’s words to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “These are the rights of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and put them to his use in his chariots, on his horses, or running in front of his chariots. 12 He can appoint them for his use as commanders of thousands or commanders of fifties, to plow his ground and reap his harvest, or to make his weapons of war and the equipment for his chariots. 13 He can take your daughters to become perfumers, cooks, and bakers. 14 He can take your best fields, vineyards, and olive orchards and give them to his servants. 15 He can take a tenth of your grain and your vineyards and give them to his officials and servants. 16 He can take your male servants, your female servants, your best cattle,[b] and your donkeys and use them for his work. 17 He can take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves can become his servants. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out because of the king you’ve chosen for yourselves, but the Lord won’t answer you on that day.”
19 The people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We must have a king over us. 20 Then we’ll be like all the other nations: our king will judge us, go out before us, and fight our battles.”
21 Samuel listened to all the people’s words and then repeated them to the Lord. 22 “Listen to them,” the Lord told Samuel. “Appoint a king for them.”
 
 
 

Thanks for the extended comment.
You mention looking through "human eyes" and through "God's eyes". I fear that the assurances that man can look through the “eyes of God” will lead us nowhere. Looking at the spiritual is connected with faith. And faith is a personal feeling and state of mind. I think it is not necessary to go further in explaining what our beliefs bring to us, because it is a part of our everyday life that provides material evidence of the faith of individuals and organizations.
Iinteresting, it is a constantly unclear state of what an organization is and what believers are within an organization. That betel member talks about a lot of bad things in the organization, you said. What does he mean? Does he mean the legal aspect of a company that has poor corporate regulation? Or does he mean people who are responsible persons and represent a legal entity in a broad conglomerate of a multitude of different legal bodies that have been legalized before the authorities? Does he mean the spiritual or some other condition of the believers who are members of the organization? .... etc.
It is not clear to me what this is supposed to mean: God and the control of his people.
What kind of control is this? People want to have control over people. So does God want to have control over people too? If he lets go of Armageddon then he will gain some control over events. But I don't think he will ever have control over people.  

You should not react like that to the "defeat" you have experienced. @JW Insider defends the facts, not me. But I am glad that he understood my comments and found time to find excerpts from the WT literature that indicate the thing we were talking about.

You should not react like that to the "defeat" you have experienced. @JW Insider defends the facts, not me. But I am glad that he understood my comments and found time to find excerpts from the WT literature that indicate the thing we were talking about.

Your story is exceptionally sad.  I am so sorry that you had to go through what you did, but your story is one of hundreds, even thousands in a similar vein, and has happened over the extent of probably most of Wt's history.  
It cannot be verified with scripture that the Wt. is God's organization.  The only "organization" that God sanctifies is His Temple built on Jesus Christ, the apostles and prophets, and all the faithful anointed priests over the centuries, who were sealed into God's dwelling place and heavenly Temple.  (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10)   It is "organized" spiritually, as each anointed one has received a spiritual gift which they are to use in promoting Truth.  (1 Cor 12:1-31; Rom 12:3-8; Eph 4:4-13; Rom 15:15,16 It is a spiritual "organization", having nothing to do with money, investments, politics, building -  all of which take place in the realm of Satan.  Why would Jesus promote any physical, fleshly desire of men in Satan's realm?  Jesus is the head of the Temple of God - His organization and dwelling place in Spirit.  (John 2:19-21; Matt 16:18; 2 Cor 6:14-18)
Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 
The "modern version of idolatry" is looking to "Jehovah's organization" as the way/source of salvation.