Judith Sweeney

thanks for respond 

@James Thomas Rook Jr.    
           So, if you are traveling at the speed of light, in your car and you turn the lights on....what happens?

John Butler:
I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that in many cases you are absolutely correct .... however, as an unrepentant Barbarian, I know full well what my life would have been like if not for Jehovah's Witnesses, worts, harelips, fungus toenails and all .... it would have been despicable, and brief. 
I would have killed a LOT of innocent people ... well ... relatively innocent.
There is a lot that goes on in soldiering that is terrible, truly awful, and reprehensible .... but that is the nature of collections of  people with profound responsibilities, and limited abilities.
You chose to go AWOL .
Winston Churchill during WWI was a deeply flawed man, as were all those fighting the Nazis ... but the alternative was a fool like Neville Chamberlain, and Nazi rule.
The deeply flawed British and American Armies saved your ass during WWII, from Nazi Tyranny, and the reason you are not a slave, or a Nazi, and German being your first language today is because a deeply flawed Organization came to your rescue, even before you were born.
For me and my children, the same thing with Jehovah's Witnesses.
We know the difference, and stayed to fight.

... some nights I lay in bed thinking ... and my wife thinks I am thinking about "kingly bed warmers", but in reality, I am pondering what would happen if two people on opposite sides of the Earth both dropped a piece of bread at the same time ....
.... would the Earth briefly become a sandwich?

I do not understand how Anyone could believe in the pagan doctrine of the trinity. It truly is Not Biblical.

I do not understand how Anyone could believe in the pagan doctrine of the trinity. It truly is Not Biblical.

@Witness     The first thing that my thought goes to is...that this is an artists depiction of a Mighty King aka Jesus Christ executing judgement.    There has been such a skewing of scripture that I am almost askerred to answer...almost....giving ones fodder to jump in and well, "skew".     As long as scripture is adhered to, it is impossible to misunderstand the Truth.  I thank all of the contributions to this subject, for it has been quite the healthy banter.  Again...Whew! 

@Witness Mind you, I simply type as if I am just answering separate responses at once, some things may be brought up a second or a third time.
How is the organizationÂ’s version confusing to a literary Bible student, which explains Jesus as the Destroyer?
 
What do you think a Mighty Warrior, who was man and has become like that of a spirit to return to heaven, exalted by God the Father, who will send his Son to return to the earth, with a sword in hand and God's Army to use at will, with him [The Christ who is King] wielding a Sword will do?
He isn't going to cut a bokay of flowers and cut vines on earth, he, being a Mighty King with an army at his side, will be taking out the wicked, along with the demons at the swing of his sword and the shot of his bow.
Jesus is coming to get rid of the wicked, therefore, destroying them in the process.
Literary Bible Students know this because this belief is indeed a real one, and it further proves that you are not fully aware of what Jesus will do when he returns.
Let this verse sink in, I am pretty sure I showed you this verse before.
Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." (check the references) So you tell us here, what do you think he will do with his sword against the wicked and against demons?
Simply because it contradicts scripture.
Unfortunately, it does not contradict scripture. You already contradicted yourself by assuming the Angel of the Abyss is Satan when the Bible even tells you he is thrown, chained up and hurled into that exact same abyss you believe him to be the King of, which also leads to you believing he somehow got the key to the abyss and or such was given to him - by whom if I made add if we are to focus on the Abyss in Revelations?
The view you and Pearl attest to is misguiding anyways for:
[1] Satan cannot be the Angel of the Abyss because he was hurled into the abyss for the Bible makes it clear:
Revelation 20:2 - And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, So you are incorrect because here we see someone, The Angel of the Abyss seized the Dragon, the ancient serpent, the verse telling you it is Satan, was bounded up for 1,000 years.
When we move on to verse 3, it reads:
And threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
Satan has been hurled into the pit, otherwise known as the Abyss or Bottomless Pit (Great Deep) and he was sealed there, imprisoned so that he cannot trick any one from the nations until the 1,000 years has ended.
Again, makes you incorrect, thus contradicting of who really is the Angel who has the key to the Abyss - clearly not Satan.
[2] The Angel of the Abyss has the Key to the very same place of which the Devil was hurled into and imprisoned, therefore, once again, we see here that Satan isn't the Abaddon here.
[3] You are trying to equal the stars as the same when both stars, in both verses are different.
Any teaching that contradicts scripture has its roots in "confusion", the meaning behind the word, "Babylon".
And yet we see you here teaching something to which akin to 2 Satans, or the fact that he was given a key to where he was hurled and sealed in. You brought forth the confusion.
"Wormwood", a bitter root that poisons waters of truth, plays a central part in RevelationÂ’s Babylon. She is the "great" falling star of Rev 9:1. Rev 8: 10,11
Your biggest error here is assuming the star in Revelation 9:1 and the star in Revelation 8:10, 11 are the same.
The star mentioned in Revelation 9:1 is different from the one in Revelation 8:10, 11, for it is rather obvious to when one can read the verse for themselves and notice this, a big factor here, against you, is the references.
Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. Revelation 8:10, 11 – [10] The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. [11] The name of the star is Wormwood*. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter. And yes, we know what Wormwood represents, and what it means regarding teachings that is false compared to teachings that is true.
*Revelation 8:11 - Wormwood is the name of a plant and of the bitter-tasting extract derived from it.
False: your claim on who the Angel of the Abyss is being Satan. True: The Bible tells you the Angel of the Abyss is not Satan. False: Your claim on who has the key to the Abyss, for you agree to yourself that it is Satan. True: The Bible, in context, tells us the Angel of the Abyss has the key, Satan on the other hand is the one hurled into the Abyss, he was never given a key, let alone having one. So the Trinitarian belief of yours is in is somewhat in error when one can read into the verses themselves and go beyond surfaced information. Also this is minor but your view of who the Angel of the Abyss is, is no different from that of Andrew Robert Fausset, David Brown and Henry H. Halley, who identify the angel as Satan (disregarding the key and who was hurled), moreover, they’re all Trinitarians, granted the Trinity of the Godhead doctrine is of bitterness – wormwood.
"Do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer." 1 Cor 10:7-10
It isnÂ’t confusing. 1 Corinthians 10:7-10 is referring to the Israel who put God to the test, for even Jesus himself said we should not put God to the test, even Paul and even in the Old Testament/Torah (Deut. 6:16, Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12).
The vast majority of Christians never succumb to sexual immorality, but some do apparently because they lose the battle against ill desires of the flesh - as with other things such as deceit, trickery and the like. Therefore, we need to be very careful that we do not allow ourselves to pursue a course that leads to a pattern of murmuring that could result in divine disapproval. The Israelites murmured against Moses and Aaron and against God, for they were complaining about the manna as seen in Numbers 16:41; 21:5. The Bible, Old Testament/Torah, shows that many murmurers ended up being killed by snakes, Numbers 21:6, and early on, early, more than other murmurers who rebelled were destroyed. (Numbers 16:49) Therefore, it is unwise to try GodÂ’s patience, putting him to the test.
The very reason murmuring is to be taken seriously and the taking into account of Apostle Paul’s words to those at the Church of Corinth. Granted to what he had said, especially verse 10 whereas he said murmurers, just as some of them [referring to the Israelites] murmured, only to perish by the destroyer – otherwise known as "destroying angel" or "angel of death" in some translations, hence why it can be said here that the "Destroyer" in this passage is not Jesus, nor is it Satan, but, it is God’s messenger sent to destroy (by means of an Angel).
"Woe to you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed! Woe to you, betrayer, you who have not been betrayed! When you stop destroying, you will be destroyed; when you stop betraying, you will be betrayed." Isa 33:1
Isaiah 33:1 [part A] points to 2 Kings 18:13 and Isaiah 10:15 while [part B] points to Isaiah 10:12 and Nahum 3:7.
Isaiah 33:1-14 is titled in outline Distress and Help (all the way through to verse 24). as The proud and false destroyer justly reckoned with for all his fraud, violence and bloodshed, but we have our righteous God deals with such ones who do such things. Those who by faith humbly wait for God, shall find him or herself gracious to them; as the day, so let the strength be.
Prophet Isaiah addressed who the "Destroyer" in this passage/verse. For he speaks here about Assyria. At the peak of its power, this aggressive nation appears to be undefeated, for they are very violent and commit acts of bloodshed has already been addressed, hence they are the Destroyer that destroys, in this sense, for we know what Assyria is capable of, mainly in those days. This nation was the one responsible for ravaging the cities of Judah, even stripping the house of God of everything, down to wealth and resources, by doing so with a total disregard at heart, hence what is read in 2 Kings 18:14-16 and 2 Chronicles 28:21, we can throw in Isaiah 10:5 for fun here too - "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord [Yahweh/Jehovah]." (Genesis 10:9). However, they were not the "Destroyer" for long, for that same passage of which you quoted tells you they will be destroyed – a fulfilling of prophecy is to those faithful, as declared by Prophet Isaiah.
Are there two Destroyers, Satan and Jesus?
1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God’s messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.
Isaiah 33:1 or chapter 33 in general is regarding the "Destroyer" (The Assyrian/Assyria). Who in turn is eventually destroyed by another, an Angel (Angel of Death also known as a Destroyer).
Are WTÂ’s spiritual leaders so illiterate that they cannot see WHO the Destroyer really is?
Technically they are aware of who is a Destroyer, especially in the verses above granted by what they in their information, which is on par with the view of the teachings in this sense, regarding the Destroyer.
Jesus came to save, not destroy. DonÂ’t you think it is quite contradictory to believe Jesus...
What do you think he is going to do with the demons and the wicked? After all when he had risen his words to the spirits in prison was indeed one that sticks (1 Peter 3:19–20, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6).
And it should be known to you by now that Jesus does the Will of his Father, who is God. So if God says he is going to destroy the wicked and those of lawlessness, Jesus will enact the Will of his Father in this regard, for he didn't come the first time to do his own Will, but the Will of the one who sent him (John 5:30, 35, 36, 14:10).
So if God sends Jesus to destroy the wicked, Jesus will do just that because he is God's representative, the one of whom God made Lord and Christ, the one of whom God made superior to the angels, the one of whom God made chief of his angelic army.
Yes he will save, but surely he will be dealing with the wicked too for he will come to cause a division, and not only we are saved by means of salvation, but we are saved so that the wicked will no longer bother us for we can seek them out, but they will not be here.
Psalms 37:10 - In just a little while, the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there. You may want to check out also Job 24:24, 1 Samuel 25:39 and Psalms 54:4, 5.
(yes, Jesus and not an organization) is salvation, which is the giver of LIFE,
Perhaps you may want to read Matthew 16 again, clearly this time. The church of which the Christ had built 2,000 years ago is still in effect - the apostolic church to which early Christians adhere to its teachings, the same church of which Jesus issued several commands for those to teach and spread the gospel when he is away.
The very reason it can be said that Jesus is the Head of the Church, if you missed that part along with the Spiritual House and the like, I suggest you study more.
Granted, the commands and the early church was indeed organized, especially in terms of how things went down prior to, during and after Pentecost.
and yet also a DESTROYER OF LIFE? John 14:6; 20:30,31 He conquers with the "breath of his mouth" and with "the brightness of his coming", at the time of the end. 2 Thess 2:8
The question is posed again - What do you think someone who is going to carry out God's Will, one who is made Lord and Christ and has a fleet of angels at his call will do?
For starters, we have a man who enjoys killing men, women and children, should God's Day come upon him and the Christ returns, what do you think this one, who has been separate from the wheat, fair when the Christ has him in view? Again, we can point to and see that Jesus does not know any man who practices lawlessness and therefore God's Justice will be executed in this sense, especially to the serial killer in this example. The same will happen to the deceiver himself.
Using John 14:6; 20:30, 31 is good, but it does not help you here.
Also I like how you used 2 Thessalonians 2:8, using this verse you pretty much shot yourself in the foot with this one - this is why you do not mix verses with your claims, it can be used against you in a refutation.
The verse reads:
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing [destroy] by the appearance of his coming.
And guess where this one points to (1 Timothy 6:13-15, 2 Timothy 4:1)
He is the Word, which is Truth. John 1:1; 17:17 His Spirit (breath) is imparted into the hearts of faithful "stars" to expose such lies as the quote from the Watchtower above. Gen 15:5; 26:4; Dan 12:3; Gal 3:29; Matt 24:3; 7:7; 5:19; 2 Cor 10:4-6; Eph 6:12-14; John 15:26; Matt 13:41,42; Rev 11:1-5
Unfortunately for you, theyÂ’re not lairs in this sense, you may want to look into commentary regarding such in suggested research, which you must do best your new attack only sends you back like that of Sennacherib who fled because he now knew how powerful God is, and you may find something said by one your favorite commenter, perhaps Barnes, in your research and study.
Now going back with the verses before you tried to mix up, Sennacherib, who is an Assyrian, for Assyria (the Destroyer mentioned in Isaiah 33:1) threatened to destroy Jerusalem, which at the time its ruler being Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz. God responded by sending an Angel, and this Angel, who was sent, took out, or as some would say, steamrolled 185,000 Assyrian Soldiers as they prepared to enter the city (2 Kings 18-19, Isaiah 37:33-38). For we do not see Satan or Jesus, but an Angel, and before that we know of Assyria, who was a Destroyer themselves, thus the God of Hezekiah, going with Prophet Isaiah, destroyed the destroyer, which is, Assyria.
When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed;
This is why, Witness, you shouldn't be mixing verses because it will not help you in the long run. Did you not learn the last several times you were found out to be doing this, let alone ignorance to context?
According to your response, let's take a look at the verses themselves:
NOTE: Keep this in mind. In the Bible, it speaks of spirit beings are, at times, referred to as stars (Job 38:7, Isaiah 14:13). Jesus is also referred to as a star, to be more specific, the bright morning star (Numbers 24:17, Revelations 2:28, 22:16).
Now,
Genesis 15:5 nothing regarding faithful "stars" simply God making known literal stars in the sky, the same stars we see at night when we look up. Now in 26:4, the stars are many, referring to offspring [those who are born] that will multiple just as the stars in the sky. Daniel 12:3 is regarding those with spiritual insight and or wisdom. The chosen ones, the remnant, would be bringing the many to righteousness "like stars". Galatians 3:29 speaks of the heirs of the New Covenant, those who are in union with Christ as well as being part of Spiritual Israel and the Spiritual House should we count references. Matthew 24:3 is regarding the coming of the signs of things that signify when the end times will conclude, hence "The End of This Age". Matthew 7:7 seek and you shall find, knock and it will be openedÂ… Stars? Where? The rest does not even line up with what you said either, so you are once again exposed for mixing verses and not taking in the context of the verses in question. So to whom are is the lair here in this sense? Here is all your verses, I suggest you check the references and context for all of them.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen+15%3A5%3B+26%3A4%3B+Dan+12%3A3%3B+Gal+3%3A29%3B+Matt+24%3A3%3B+7%3A7%3B+5%3A19%3B+2+Cor+10%3A4-6%3B+Eph+6%3A12-14%3B+John+15%3A26%3B+Matt+13%3A41%2C42%3B+Rev+11%3A1-5+&version=ESV
Acts of the Destroyer:
"When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down." Exod 12:23
Again, God sent an Angel to do this, the "Destroyer" here was indeed an Angel or as mentioned before "The Angel of Death" called by some or other translations. This same verse is a quotation found in Hebrews 11:28 which reads:
By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.
So we can identify the “Destroyer” here to be an Angel, sent by God during the days of Moses and Aaron and their ordeal with Egypt’s Pharaoh.
"By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the kingÂ’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel." Heb 11:27,28
Hebrews 11:28 is a quotation of Exodus 12:23, for, again, the Destroyer here is an Angel. The entirety of Hebrews 11 by title is “Faith in Action” in outlined form
Definition of faith (1, 2) Faith by means of example (3-40) Impossibility of pleasing God without faith (6) Who desired to destroy Jesus Christ, the firstborn "among many brethren", by using a pawn to do so"? Matt 2:7,8,12; Luke 22:2-4 (Rom 8:29)
You are mixing verses again.
It would be understandable if Jesus was born in the days of Moses, but that is not the case here, and it would not make sense for God to send an Angel to destroy [if we imagine Jesus was born here] to destroy his own Son via unmarked doorposts, for even if the doorposts had lambÂ’s blood, it would not make a difference for Jesus was not born as a man/flesh at that time.
Therefore, this mixing of verses, even now, expresses your confusion and twisting of scripture.
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Col 1:15
Indeed he is, Jesus is also The Firstborn out of the Dead, the First of the Firstfruits.
Ok, so how does that line up with God sending an Angel, the Destroyer, to slay the firstborns of the Egyptians while passing through a small area avoiding homes with the blood of lamps on the doorpost?
Any honest Christian who reads the Bible rather than copy/paste from a woman who is blind herself, can see in the Bible God sending an Angel, the Destroyer, in the days of Moses had slain the firstborns of the Egyptians while passing through a small area avoiding homes with the blood of lamps on the doorpost - for we can read this clearly.
And yes, Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation, however Jesus was not born as a man or came into flesh around the days of Moses, or rather, where this event took place.
Who would love to destroy the remaining "firstborn" of all of GodÂ’s children at the time of the end? Jesus or Satan? Num 3:12,13; 1 Pet 2:9; Gal 4:26; Rev 12:1-4 - notice, "stars"
You are mixing verses again. Also Numbers 3:12, 13 is regarding the Destroyer, an Angel, sent by God in the days of Moses. The fact that you mention this verse without reading it further proves my point.
The only verse that mentions "stars" is Revelation 12:1-4 - only 2 times, the second time it is used, in verse 4, is a cross-reference to Job 38:7, which points back to Revelation 22:16.
That being said, if you had read the Old Testament, clearly an angel was passing through destroying firstborns, especially when there were doorposts that didn't have the blood of lambs on them.
And now we are back to square 1 before you started to thrown in things to confuse people, you know such things would not be allowed to pass when there is a CSE member here.
Incredibly, WT states that the locusts emerging from the abyss are the anointed ones bringing their tormenting message to the world, via the preaching work.
Now I see you are back on track with the Angel of the Abyss, granted to the odd display of spiritual weakness earlier to which you have been corrected on.
What they profess is actually true, like I said before, it is not solely the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe this, for there are others. Plus it wouldn't make sense for the Locust in this symbolic sense to refer to those on Satan's side, granted Satan isn't the one with the key and he is the one who has been hurled and chained in that same abyss that also represents sin and death in some cases.
The Locust represents swarm of those in Christendom who profess what is true, those in inactivity, they are to target those who do not have the seal of God on them, their foreheads, for those in Christendom who claim to be sealed but their own claims defeat them in regards to deceit. The tormenting, in terms of message is against religious leaders of Christendom, most common, mainstream Christianity that professes a doctrine that is bitter - like wormwood. They are tormented by means of means of hearing what is actually true, thus putting a light on to their failings and being exposed for teachings things that is accursed, especially those who claim an accursed teachings to be true i.e. Orderly Worship of the Church to be broken by those of today's age when Paul made it clear of God's Order by means of Creation.
They're unable to and or not allowed to kill them, but rather, only to torture them for 5 months (clearly not in a literal sense, but when it comes to truths and untruths being spoken), the agony such ones will suffer from in terms of teach to lies, for the truth being made manifest in the face of lies and lairs -for what is true of what the Bible says stings like scorpion when it strikes - you know when you feel it when, for instance, prove that Jesus isn't God, but God's Son.
What a concoction of lies, thoroughly cloaking the armyÂ’s true mission of bringing to ruin GodÂ’s owned anointed "land". Joel 1:6,7,17,20, 25-27
You got it all wrong, it is the other way around, and you have to understand what is spoken of in Joel when trying to look into Revelations - granted it is obvious you are not that strong in what Revelations is conveying in this regard, perhaps other things, but clearly not this one.
It is also good to mention that when the Locust is being spoken of, some, if not most commentators go about in detail regarding Joel's mention of the Locust, how they function, the literal ones, especially the life-span of Locust is spoken of.
WHO need to be SEALED in order to reign in heaven with Christ?
Those who accept Christ as their King and Saviour, while to those who refuse to have Him rule over them (Luke 19:14), He is in this sense the Destroyer if it is the other way around for those who do not accept him - for he will not recognize them.
Hence, accordingly, the judgments, fall (revealed by the trumpets) upon those who reject the teachings found in the Bible, and who as a result do not have the seal. For this being factual points to the strong warning the Bible conveys regarding bringing of things - For you are for Life or you are for Death, as I told our "undeath believing" friend - there is no middle ground for the Bible makes it clear.
It is also good to mention that Revelation 7:2, 3 seeing the role some Angels have regarding those who have the seal on their foreheads, which brings forth another question to you:
If you believe the Locust to be on SatanÂ’s side, would it not be logical for these Locusts to attack those with who are sealed rather than those who are not sealed?
Do you realize you are saying that Jesus will return as a falling star, releasing an army to come against his own unsealed priesthood? I hope JWs can see that this is absurd.
Like I said, you have it the other way around and you're not paying attention to the context.
For starters, the context implies that the Locust that is to be released represents those who will, like a swarm be committed to the message that clearly irritates and torments those who, are not sealed, who teach accursed things. And you continue to make it seem as though it is a JW only thing when it is not, therefore the spark of hypocrisy expressed by you can easily be seen or that of the one who teaches you, as well as a clear disdain for a teaching that possibly predates them.
As for the fallen star, this one was given (verb) a key. This one angel by the majority considers it to be Jesus, granted he is the one who will crush the head of the serpent, hence why he in this sense is identified as Apollyon (Abaddon), for later on in Revelation 20 this same star was the one to have hurled the great dragon into the abyss.
The one who opens the abyss, releases an oppressive army that effectively holds down GodÂ’s "saints" with their dictating fist!
That being said you, who believe Satan to be the Angel of the Abyss are caught in your own lie, for you were not able to prove that he is the Angel of the Abyss nor prove the fact your so called Angel was "given" a key (verb) as well as "having" it. So I say to you - that is absurd, to believe that an enemy of God is given his own key to his own imprisonment for 1,000 years of the reign of someone else.
Remember, Satan was the one who was chained, hurled into the abyss and was sealed up there. Do not forget what your own Bible tells you.
Common sense should tell all JWs that anyone who "torments" or "tortures" another, is not practicing righteousness. Rev 9:5,6; John 13:34,35g
A clear example in someone, such as yourself who do not take the time to read the Strong's - granted torment/torture can point to several things. Take a good look at Strong's 921 and 928 because like before, you lack here.
And what does John 13:34, 35 have to do with the sealing of a Scarlet Dragon for 1,000 years and the sealed and not sealed? Do not connect verses that never connected to begin with... Of which you are found out to do.... again.
When the locust-scorpions are in full attack mode against his priesthood, Jesus returns to his Temple to measure each Temple "living stone" according to GodÂ’s decrees. WormwoodÂ’s stinging army reigns over them; "Gentiles", torturing and trampling the Temple/anointed ones as the Man of Lawlessness. Rev 11:1-3; Dan 11:31,36; Acts 20:29,30; Matt 24:15; Luke 21:24; 2 Thess 2:3,4 (1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16 ; Eph 2:20-22)
How are you so sure regarding the Locust when you earlier spoke of the Angel of the Abyss to be Satan the Devil when the Angel of the Abyss (who was given a key to the Abyss) was the one who had a hand in the Devil's captivity?
These "Gentiles" are the elders, who ‘seem to wear crowns of gold’, replacing Christ’s priesthood/Temple with themselves, as the WT picture below suggests. Rev 9:7 (WT 17 March pg 3-8, "Give Honor to Whom It is Due")
No. No one replaced Jesus' Priesthood. Honor regarding religious leaders, priests, stewards and the like in the Church Congregation is spoken of, nearly 100 verses with cross-references hat pertain to this simple notion, which spans even more verses perhaps over 200+. Practically most Biblical sources even points to this also. Plus it even tells you of whom should be honored and the fact we are to honor God and his Christ.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/honoring_leaders
Also Revelation 9:7 is symbolic and it points to Joel 2:4, 5.
Are ChristÂ’s anointed priests mentioned in this article?
I checked the article you are referring to, it refers to showing honor to those who hold religious office, even the chosen ones, is vital. You honor the Church, you honor the Christ, in turn you Honor God.
In terms of those in priesthood, by means of honoring God and his Christ, you also honor the chosen ones. This also goes hand in hand with the context of by means power God is with them and or with Christ, a term Trinitarians try time and time again to refute to justify the Trinity, only to fail, for instance Acts 1:8 (also check out Acts 4:33).
Not at all, but the elders are highlighted as worthy of receiving honor, even robbing GodÂ’s priesthood and all JWs of what the true meaning behind the picture is to represent.
And yet 100+ verses says otherwise as well as the context in terms of what it means to honor God and his Christ, in addition to how God is with his people by means of what power is spoken of.
With subtle indications, the picture and article point to the Man of Lawlessness as present or "sitting" in the Temple of God. 2 Thess 2:3,4.
And yet in other discussion you show yourself to be accepting of lawlessness by denying God's Order and among other things, even to the point of accepting deceit to target those of whom you have a clear disdain for. That is pretty much in line, the same as to how the Jews plot to kill Jesus and actually got the chance to do so.
The elder body is a "disgusting" counterfeit of the holy Temple priesthood that now has no name, no face, and no position before the Heavenly Father and their High Priest, Jesus Christ, in the organization.
And upon this rock the Church has been built. And Jesus entrusted a command to his disciples, etc. Jesus is the head of the church, the good news gospel and the Messianic Age has been preached and the people made disciples and baptized them in His name, etc.
The apostolic church was organized even in its early stages, after all, the Didache makes it clear as to how organized they were centuries ago.
That being said, we should be 100% neutral with anyone who is striving to be like the church in this sense and has members among them who are spoken of as among the chosen ones, so we may be very very, VERY careful to not allow ourselves a spot in the white throne, for when judgment has concluded - being here will not be a happy ending for most.
Wormwood "poisons" waters of living truth. Rev 8:11 "She" once held her "heavenly" position in Christ, yet has fallen for the offers of Satan, becoming his pawns to come against the remaining ones of the womanÂ’s seed. Luke 4:7; Rev 8:10,11; Jer 23:15; Amos 5:7; 1 Cor 10:12; 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 12:17
By means of false prophets, yes, and by false prophets but those who follow them, just like the clear statement you have made thus far, which isn't true regarding who has the key.
How are you so sure when you tried to identify both stars as the same when the verse and references show you theyÂ’re different? By definition, if you do this you can be identified as a false prophet if you are mixing these things up.
Revelation 13:11 is regarding the second beast that rises out of the earth. This land beast has 2 horns like a lamb and it speaks like a dragon. It claims to be a Christian but it is not. It collects and colonizes nations and exploits and it is present along with the first beast. 2 Pet 3:17 is regarding not being carried away by those who are of lawlessness, in as which to be careful so we do not lose our way. Amos 5:7 Wormwood in terms of representing injustice and unrighteousness, which also connects with Amos 6:12, furthermore, it is used to reference apostates and or apostasy in Deuteronomy 29:18. If Wormwood is able to poison truth with her lies, bringing many in touch with death, she does so as a false prophet. John 7:38; Matt 24:5 She is the Beast from the Earth, appearing to come in the name of Christ, but has indeed fallen from her "heavenly" position. Rev 13:11; 2 Pet 3:17; Amos 5:7
Also John 7:38 is regarding Jesus, Jesus isn’t a “She” nor is he a “Beast”, moreover, Matthew 24:5 speaks of False Prophets, not the Wild Beast.
Also notice that ho Khristos is in use, simply, the Christ which is equal to the Messiah (from Hebrew Mashiach), both meaning Chosen One or Anointed One. In the 1st century C.E., there has been some who claimed to be prophets, who dwell in political affairs, and such ones came forth, promising relief from oppression and a list of other things.
These composite false prophets have independently severed themselves from God and Christ to serve their new Master, Satan. "She" appears to be "great" (Matt 5:19), as she exalts herself over her "fellow slaves". Rev 8:10 Matt 24:48-51 She blazes like a torch or lamp, falling on the "earth", on the anointed House of God, which is the owned habitation of God. As I once did, and millions also, the anointed and companions have been drawn to your leadersÂ’ light, without realizing the sinister plan that lies behind itÂ’s false brilliance.
If I may add, since you now bring wormwood into this discussion, you aware of what are the major things that consist in such? I already gave 3 examples regarding mainstream Christendom vs. the true apostolic church itself.
This verse does not say falling on to the earthÂ… It simply says fell out of heaven.
That being, it isn’t a sinister plan. A sinister plan is believing Satan having been given a key to his own prison to torment and not kill anyone who are not sealed – which in turn, your view does not make any sense, that somehow Satan has no need to attack those having the seal of God, but rather, those who do not. Remember, Satan himself has a strong hatred for God's people.
WormwoodÂ’s locust army is a military strategy hatched under both Satan and WormwoodÂ’s direction; growing to ultimately restrain and torment the dwelling of God, as the the Beast from the Sea. Joel 2:1-5; 2 Thess 2:7; Rev 9:5,10; 13:1,5-7
Which is incorrect because The Locust Army are not of the one hurled into the Abyss - Satan does not have the key to the Abyss, and the fact you are assuming both stars are the same.
Which brings forth the next question, if the Locust was indeed on Satan's side, why are they not attacking those who have been sealed, but rather, those who are not sealed?
Think really hard about this one.
Do you know that the "sea" is another symbol for SatanÂ’s realm, including those in it; and is termed, the abyss in Rev 11:7?
And? The Abyss isn't called Satan's realm, the Abyss is a place of which Satan has been held.
The Abyss also means very or exceedingly deep, and sometimes it is used with reference to the sea because of the sea’s great, and is very deep as can be seen in Romans 10:6, 7, see Deuteronomy 30:12, 13.
Isa 57:20,21; Isa 27:1 After tormenting the saints, the Beast from the Sea/abyss is authorized to "kill" (disfellowship) ChristÂ’s priests for joining with Christ in truth, fully rejecting WormwoodÂ’s waters. Yet, this army no longer has the power to "restrain" them, as they expose its true identity as the Man of Lawlessness. Rev 13:7; 11:3,7; 1 Pet 5:8; Isa 51:10; Rev 16:12; 11:11,12; 12:10,11
IÂ’d rather not you throw an entrusted command to justify your view.
The verses in Isaiah speaks nothing of tormenting the saints.
This is where you contradict yourself again. The verse in question even tells you such ones cannot be or cannot be killed, therefore tormenting, outside of symbolism, true teachings vs. false teachings, for those who profess what is false do not have the seal.
Notice who gives this Beast power:
“The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.” Rev 13:2b
 Rev 9:3 – “Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.” 
The Dragon didn't give the Locust Power. The cross-reference to this verse, [part B], points to Revelation 12:9 which reads:
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
He gave his power to the wild beast – not the locust.
We know this because the Bible teaches that the enemy of God, Satan, has authority and control over the very world he is the ruler of regarding things in today's society, even politics (Luke 4:5, 6).
Another example of you twisting scripture when not even a shred of a reference equal both verses at all. That is shameful.
Since the Beast from the Sea/abyss is under the direction of the Beast/false prophet, then who gives the fallen star, Wormwood, a “key” or the authority to direct the Wild Beast, in Satan’s deceitful ploy?  The King of the abyss, Abaddon (“Destruction”) in Hebrew, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon – Destroyer.  He is Revelation’s dragon.    Rev 9:1,2,11; 13:11,12,14-17
Incorrect.
No one, even Satan himself was given a key nor had the key to the abyss themselves. The only one who has the key was the Angel of the Abyss.
The Christ is the one who secures SatanÂ’s captivity, ushering in the 1,000 year reign, for it can be fitting for anyone to see who he represents and who he is; symbolized by the angel having the key of the abyss and by the star to whom the key was given.
And as the giving (verb; Revelation 9:1) of a thing to any certain one must precede the having Revelation 1:18, 20:1.  Obviously it can be spoken of as the Christ receiving the key at the sounding of the 5th trumpet prior to or sometime during the 1,000 year reign. He already has it at prior to the commencement of the millennium.
GodÂ’s chosen one is here to bring forth deliverance from the prison house of sin and of death (the abyss), and to do so through the proclamation of the gospel, the key, therefore, must be figurative of the gospel, the only power that is able to set free those who are imprisoned in the abyss, which is where the Locust comes in, released from captivity and go about like that of a swarm. Also IÂ’d like to add that the abyss is spoken of as a place of inactivity, which can be compared to verses such as Romans 10:7, Revelation 17:8, 20:1, 3.
The abyss in Revelation 20:3 is symbolical for it represents the earth as a prison house, then the abyss of Revelation 9:1, being identical, must likewise be symbolical of the earth as a prison house at another time. This implicitly Biblical interpretation of the star, the key, and the abyss reveals that the earth, becomes like that of a prison house (a pit) for GodÂ’s people and that Christ came to open it in order to deliver them, save them.
The organization’s lie that Abaddon is “the glorified Jesus Christ” is pure mockery and DECEIT.
They haven’t lied, for even outside of the Watchtower people hold on to the belief that Jesus is that Angel of the Abyss. He has the key, he comes to bring forth deliverance and those against his God will get a full taste of God’s Justice. The army of Locust go after those who are not sealed in terms of pressing the truth against falsehood, unleashed from their captivity and so forth.
So it isnÂ’t a pure mockery nor is it deceit.
What is deceit is believing that some Satan has a key to his own prison to free Locust to go after those who are not sealed. According to your view, wouldnÂ’t be make sense for Satan to go after GodÂ’s people, instead?
Does God feel this way about His Son?  John 8:54; Luke 9:28,29; 2 Pet 1:17; Rev 1:12-16 
I hope you realize that in John 8:54 God was not speaking, it was Jesus...
And? Also how does Transfiguration fit into the other verses listed?
Also the first one, John 8:54 is Jesus speaking about his Father to the bad influenced Jews – for Jesus isn’t God, he is God’s Son, therefore that would be Jesus’ feeling for his Father when put to task against the Jews. 
The abyss, Sheol, Hades, all represent the consignment to darkness and death, and is associated with Abaddon.
It represents sin and death, total inactivity (a form of stasis) and utter darkness, the only time Abaddon is used is regarding SatanÂ’s imprisonment, another time regarding the firstborns in Egypt, Assyria to Hezekiah, GodÂ’s Justice to wickedness, etc.
As a JW, I believed that the abyss was a location that couldn’t be seen by the physical eye, but was somewhere on the spiritual side of the universe.  However, it is symbolism for the unending darkness, the bottomless pit of deep deceptions that Satan uses to blinds the spiritual senses, which can lead to death. 
Spiritual Side of the Universe? Also, it is not unknown to anyone that there are things we cannot see ourselves, anything in connection to spirit beings we cannot see, but they can see us. I am pretty sure our JehovahÂ’s Witness counterparts are aware of that for it is not uncommon for them to speak on such things.
It is the realm of “not perceiving”. 
Sheol/Hades:  from the combination of two root words –
Alpha – “when prefixed to words as an inseparable syllable” it means “giving a negative sense to the word to which it is prefixed”
Eid? – “to perceive with the eyes, to perceive by any of the senses, notice, discern, discover”
Ok. And what does this have to do with the Angel of the Abyss who has the key?
When Jesus bound Satan and threw him into the abyss in the first century for the symbolic “thousand years, he was prevented from perceiving how to fabricate his end time delusion, which “shatters” the power of the holy ones. This didn’t hinder his ability to cause havoc in other ways around the world.  His demand to “sift” each one in Christ as “wheat” was still enforced, before enacting his ultimate devastating strategy against the unsealed “remaining ones”. He has accomplished this with the help of the fallen star and her army of locust-scorpions.    Luke 10:17-20; Mark 3:27; Rev 20:2,3; Luke 22:31; Eph 2:1-3; Rev 20:4; Dan 7:7,23; 12:7; Rev 12:17
But you just said earlier that you agree that Satan is the Angel of the AbyssÂ… So why shift and call others lairs when you said something entirely different only to fall on your own sword at the end?
I see now you accept what is true, Jesus was the one who dealt with Satan by hurling him into the abyss, that same abyss that he has been given the key to, the same abyss as to where the Locust comes out in droves while Satan himself is sealed shut there – imprisoned.
He has accomplished this with the help of the fallen star and her army of locust-scorpions.    Luke 10:17-20; Mark 3:27; Rev 20:2,3; Luke 22:31; Eph 2:1-3; Rev 20:4; Dan 7:7,23; 12:7; Rev 12:17
The star who had fallen to the earth isn’t the same star who fell out of heaven – stop confusing the two.
And no, Satan didnÂ’t get help from the fallen star, especially when the fallen star in question points back to the bright morning star in Revelation 22, therefore, the Christ didnÂ’t, no, he would never help Satan the Devil with anything, especially when we know Satan and his demons battled with Jesus and the angels in Heaven prior to the Christ being made a King.
Luke 10:17-20 Jesus prophetically spoke about seeing the cast out of Satan from heaven which has yet to occur during his time. Revelation 12:7-9 describes the battle that took place in heaven and associates Satan the Devil’s fall with the birth of the Messianic Kingdom. Jesus was conveying that the evident defeat of Satan and his demons in that future battle and that God had just empowered 70 disciples, imperfect men to have the ability to expel demons (Luke 10:17). The demons are in connection with Satan, not of the Christ, and such ones had since lost their connection in heaven, not being in the presence of God for they were cut-off. Other than that, when Jesus was a man on earth, they knew who the Christ was already. Therefore, nothing here points to a Locust Army – granted we know demons will influence people and go after God’s people.
 Mark 3:27 may I ask, what is the point of mentioning this verse when it is practically unrelated to what you have just said which is already incorrect?
Rev 20:2, 3, 4 But you do not believe that Jesus was the one who hurled Satan into the Abyss, for you yourself have stated that Satan is the Angel of the Abyss…. A bit hypocritical, don’t you think? Luke 22:31 Your point in bringing this verse up? With what you are conveying you are shifting us, just as Satan was trying to shift Simon. Eph. 2:1-3 Your point in bringing up this verse? Dan. 7:7,23 These verses speak of the 4th wild beast… You were not specifying which wild beast of the land you are talking about, but judging by your constant mixing of verses, it can be seen you are attempting to speak about the first and second beast, only now you mention the fourth one, which has nothing to do with the response of yours. And the use of 12:7 is rather pointless, on your part. Rev. 12:17 Why bring this one up? You stated yourself you believe Satan to be the Angel of the Abyss who somehow has the key. In the real world, a jailer wouldn’t give a serial killer a key to his own cell – see how absurd that sounds?
Without Christ, we remain in darkness, not spiritually cognizant of his light of Truth. John 1:5; 1 John 2:11; Eph 4:17,18  When Eve sinned, Satan gained authority (a key) over the “whole world” and mankind came under the result of condemning sin – death.  At Jesus’ coming, he said, “I am the light of the world” – a world that exists in spiritual darkness. 1 Cor 2:12;  Phil 2:15  Christ conquered death’s grip upon mankind, but we must come tohis light to be saved; otherwise the darkness of the abyss remains with us.  Phil 2:14,15  He received “authority” to release us from this spiritual darkness, and we are rescued from the captivity of “not perceiving” the true light of Christ, if our hearts desire to turn to Christ.  
But you are twisting the truth in this sense, so how you are on ChristÂ’s side when you profess that Satan has the key when he does not? The Bible even tells you that Satan is hurled into the abyss, he was never given a key or spoken of as having it prior to the 1,000 year reign. Even if he had, he be gunning for GodÂ’s people, which is not the case because he isnÂ’t the Angel of the Abyss who has the key.
Satan gained authority (a key)
Seriously? No reference whatsoever speaks of the key being authorityÂ…..
When did God give him the time and day, if I may ask?
In Revelation, all the named titles of wickedness to come against GodÂ’s anointed under the New Covenant, are enhanced characteristics of the same two entities.
Wormwood, and its locust-scorpion army torment the anointed who have not been sealed.
The Beast from the Earth gives authority to the Wild Beast from the Sea to blaspheme God’s Temple saints and war with them.   
The Wild Beast from the Sea is the Man of Lawlessness that “tramples”/”torments” God’s Temple priests/saints, and is the locust-army released from the pit of deception.
The Beast from the Earth, as Wormwood, is a composite false prophet appearing as if from Christ,  butpoisons the living waters of Truth with lies from Satan’s mouth.
Once again you are getting the stars confused, and the Locust Swarm would not and are never spoken of as going for the chosen ones. Further prove of this is the fact that Satan isnÂ’t the Angel of the Abyss holding the key.
The weak exegesis also does not prove the Locust is or will be attacking GodÂ’s people, again, the one who has the key, in context, refutes your claim for you.
Yes, false prophets and the like, who teach accursed things, such as the Trinity, or shifting GodÂ’s Order thinking it is okay when it is not.
Shockingly enough, the only thing you got right is Babylon the Great.
Their final identifying mark surrounds “the camp of the saints” holding them spiritually captive in Satan’s “abyss”.   Rev 13:9,10; Col 2:8
None of these verses speak in regards to Satan’s Abyss. Satan does not own an Abyss – he is cast into one and sealed inside of it.
That being said, if the Bible speaks of Traditions of Men, why did you boldly defend and accept such things the last time we discussed? Hypocritical much?
The anointed “saints” receive the brunt of torment, trampling, treading, poisoned waters,  deception, and the threat of “killing” for discarding their, shackles when choosing to follow  Christ in repentance.  Rev 3:18  But, you would never know it while residing in the WT organization where “peace, health, prosperity” and security are promised in “Jehovah’s organization”.  Those who have fallen into the same trap, also suffer, if one’s adoration given to both Beasts, terminates.  1 Thess 5:3; Rev 13:14,15 
Unfortunately they do know it. The very reason why most who study the Bible is aware of interpretation and hermeneutical studies and taking high regard for context of a verse and or passage isn’t of being an “as is” man or one who simply accept surface information.
Therefore, they, like the rest who know this passage are not in any form of deception.
Satan gives the “authority” or the key of deception to Wormwood, the false prophet/Harlot. Christ has obtained the “authority” and power over deception and death, by conquering it. Heb 2:14-16 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+2%3A14-16&version=NIV
The key isnÂ’t authority and Satan never has or has never been given the key, therefore, you are trying to justify a false teaching, spreading the wormwood into the waters, of which you are doing now.
Christ received the “key” at the sounding of the fifth trumpet, you only know this if you understand and apply context.
This does not make him Abaddon, Apollyon or the Destroyer. 
Oh really?
So what is the reason that a King who is a mighty warrior and is accompanied by the same army he is in charge of that fought against Satan and his demons, will do to the wicked on earth granted that he is GodÂ’s representative, his chosen one, his Christ? God destroys the wicked; the wicked perishes. Jesus does anything and everything for his God and Father for it is His Will that he will do, not of his own, but of GodÂ’s, therefore, Jesus will be coming to not just deal with demons, but wicked man of lawlessness as well, including the false prophets and any man who associates themselves with the wild beasts and be met with Eternal Destruction otherwise known as being Destroyed forever/for good (Is No More; Is Gone), or as the tech-savvy Christians like to put it, God delete the wicked from the face of the earth by means of his chosen one, Jesus Christ.
As I said earlier, any casualties during Armageddon and at its culmination, are the result of the authentic Destroyer of life, Satan the Devil, before he is thrown into the Lake of Fire. 1 Cor 15:24; Rev 20:10,14
And? God gave people time, and when that time is up, he will send Jesus to exact justice on the wicked from man to demon. As if the examples in the Bible were not any clear, it will be bigger when GodÂ’s Day does come.
The organization represents Jesus’ arrival with a bow and arrow in hand, ready to pierce man, woman and child with a boundless supply of literal arrows; or so it seems. Yet, look into the scriptures for the symbolism of sword, quiver, arrows in Isa 49:2; Ps 127:3-5 
The JehovahÂ’s Witnesses are not the only one who is aware of this. Jesus is a Mighty Warrior King, chosen by God, anointed by God, he alongside GodÂ’s Army fought against Satan and his Demons, and he will indeed come to do the exact same thing to all men who are wicked, as seen in the Bible all who are wicked, men, women and children met the same fate, it is not different from what is going to happen soon.
That being said, those verses do not prove your point. Watering down the fact that Jesus is not just a King but a Mighty Warrior is misleading.
Scriptures are clear about the identity of the Destroyer. 
“Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.”   John 10:7-10 
Oh really? Remember you were the one who posted this verse
2 Thess. 2:8 which reads:
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
Jesus, who comes from God, will be destroying the wicked, case and point. I do not see how and why you are ignoring this simple fact. For as a King he will be as such, if you are for God you have life, if you are not for God, you shall perish, no middle ground, regardless of who you are. God has not changed, and his purpose, will and order is done through his Son, Jesus.
From WatchtowerÂ’s leaders:
Rather, this “star” comes as a Freedom-giver, a Liberator of others, for “the key of the pit of the abyss was given him.” He is also a King, for he is “the angel of the abyss” and is the King of those whom he releases from the abyss; in harmony with which fact those whom he releases wear what, to John, “seemed to be crowns like gold.” This symbolic “star” also has a name for this occasion. In Greek its name is Apollyon, which means Destroyer. In Hebrew it is Abaddon, which means Destruction. All these features about this symbolic “star” reveal him to be the glorified Jesus Christ.  Wt 69/12/1
Granted that Jesus is the one who put Satan in captivity, for Jesus is the one who has the key, and clearly death shall not prevail against him. Anyone can see of which star they are referring to, the one of which points back to Revelation 22, which points to Jesus, apparently, so it isnÂ’t out of the ordinary whatsoever.
Jesus is indeed the bright morning star mentioned in that reference.
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8:44
“How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are trying to enter! Matt 23:13
The only thing that is deception and hypocritical is that fact you make it seem, even believe Satan to be the Angel of the Abyss when he is not. In simple terms, he is a criminal, he is jailed there, imprisoned, and those he falsely accused are released.
Satan was never given a key, nor is the key “authority”, for we are informed in the passage that this key itself gives access to the abyss similar to that of a literal key that opens a door to a house or a car.
As for the ending question
“Who has the key to the abyss?”
Clearly not Satan the Devil.
That being said, no one at all should be watering down JohnÂ’s Revelation, especially when one can understand what is speaks of.
The need to turn Jesus' actions in what is to come into some Disney based gymnastics is horrid, and it defeats the purpose of what the Scriptures conveys in regards to what is to come and what the Abyss is, the key in which has been given and one who has it, as well as the Locust, and those who are sealed or not. Ironically we have yet to began speaking about the Two Witnesses.
That being said.... Best not to be quick about seeing this as a false teaching as you so profess because anyone who has such ideas most likely are arrived at such by thinking that "a star fell from heaven" automatically assume this to be Satan and his fall. And then because he falls he now somehow has the symbolical key to the abyss, which is plausible if one reads surface reads.
Read, Research, Take time to Read and understand your Bible and look at the cross-references, and stop mixing verses to benefit the emotion and opinions you throw into your exegesis, be it you or the  woman you follow as your teacher.
Know this, Jesus will be coming like a warrior with a Sword in hand.
The Christ of my God, your God, is coming and we already know what he is going to do.

Your Lord and Christ by means of God's Will is going to destroy the wicked, regardless of what you say, for it is what it is when it comes to the Bible, and Satan himself will indeed be destroyed too, as well as death itself.
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

You sure about that? The verses in question applies to those who have roles in keeping the church spiritual upright, building them up, as did Paul to the Church of Corinth, as did those who held religious office. I agree with you in regards of the chosen ones, but we shouldn't be leaving those under them out of the equation, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the verses of which I speak of in terms of honoring religious leaders, which consist of those who take office in the church.
You are also forgetting that Christians are under the New Covenant, Witness, such ones should not be left out too, mainly if you have those who recognize of where they stand when it comes to the early Christians who resided in the church itself so their view is not foggy in this regard, hence out last discussion and what I will soon post here for you to see of your own inconsistencies in your previous post.
If anyone is honest with themselves and is aware of what took place last weekend, they'd realize of who is the real enemy here.
When it comes to studying religions, you can recognize their stance and as to why they view this or that as it is. The one I adhere to, Brother Kel is similar to me or perhaps Mr. Simon Brown, SoG, yet he, and many others, knows the Christology of JWs as is that of anything pertaining to Non-Trinitarianism and or the True Church itself vs. That of mainstream Christendom, as do many, and such ones stand up to such ones like Mr. White and several others.
That being said, if you are speaking of the chosen ones, perhaps make it clear this time, and I suggest you read up on what the Bible says regarding honoring religious leaders, for the majority of them is found in the Greek New Testament, this is but 4 out of the 100+ verses.
1 Timothy 5:17-20 - [17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. [18] For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” [19] Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. [20] As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. Servants, also known as slaves/stewards, what have you, were to honor those who are like masters over them, by taking in the teachings and putting it into application, taking up tasks hence their role(s) in the church regarding their position, and so forth, hence 1 Timothy 6:1, 2. Even the Bible speaks of respect and honor to even that of rules and authority. Regardless, people such ones part of God are deserving of honor.
For we already know of who among men, young and old in the church and their roles and what their roles consist of, in Paul's Day, as is with others in his day and onward. We should not being ignoring this.

To keep a more complete set of references for this topic, we also have the Jan 15, 2014 WT:
*** w14 1/15 pp. 30-31 “Let Your Kingdom Come”—But When? ***
THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY
14 There is yet a third reason for confidence. What has developed among God’s people points to the nearness of the end. For example, prior to the establishment of God’s Kingdom in heaven, a group of faithful anointed ones were actively serving God. When some of their expectations about what would happen in 1914 did not come about, what did they do? Most of them proved their integrity under trials and persecution and kept right on serving Jehovah. Over the years, most—if not all—of those anointed ones have faithfully completed their earthly course.
15 In his detailed prophecy about the conclusion of this system of things, Jesus said: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” (Read Matthew 24:33-35.) We understand that in mentioning “this generation,” Jesus was referring to two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in 1914, and they readily discerned the sign of Christ’s presence in that year. Those who made up this group were not merely alive in 1914, but they were spirit-anointed as sons of God in or before that year.—Rom. 8:14-17.
16 The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth. Thus, not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” of whom Jesus spoke. Today, those in this second group are themselves advancing in years. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 give us confidence that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation. This should add to our conviction that little time remains before the King of God’s Kingdom acts to destroy the wicked and usher in a righteous new world.—2 Pet. 3:13.
And, as was already mentioned Brother Splane, in the September 2015 JW Broadcasting talk, provided a chart. Then this same chart was referenced just a few months later by a later JW Broadcasting speaker, Brother Kenneth Flodin, who said that it was "masterfully explained" by Brother Splane and that he did such a "beautiful job" that he wasn't going to attempt to repeat it, so he just replayed the video of Splane, and then called it a "very clear explanation."
 

@Eoin Joyce quoted one of the first real hints of the overlapping generation doctrine from the Feb 15, 2008 WT (above).
Above, I also quoted a WT QFR that mentioned overlapping generations from the Sept. 1, 1952 WT, and it showed why overlapping generations do not effect the length of the generation Jesus spoke about.
After the 2008 article, there was also a more recent mention of the some of the same points repeated in the April 15, 2010 WT, and this 2010 article was the first to explicitly create a generation that is defined by the overlap of two specific groups: One group saw the start of an event, and another group could not have seen the start of that event, but would see the start of a different event, not more than two lifespans from the first event:
*** w10 4/15 pp. 10-11 pars. 13-14 Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose ***
13 Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light. (Prov. 4:18) This magazine has long been used by “the faithful and discreet slave” as the primary channel for dispensing increased light. (Matt. 24:45) For example, consider our understanding of those who make up “this generation” mentioned by Jesus. (Read Matthew 24:32-34.) To what generation did Jesus refer? The article “Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You?” explained that Jesus was referring, not to the wicked, but to his disciples, who were soon to be anointed with holy spirit. Jesus’ anointed followers, both in the first century and in our day, would be the ones who would not only see the sign but also discern its meaning—that Jesus “is near at the doors.”
14 What does this explanation mean to us? Although we cannot measure the exact length of “this generation,” we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicates that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37.
I included the paragraph that drops plenty of hints that this new idea is evidence of holy spirit at work, and that it represents the light of Bible truth, and that the source is the "faithful and discreet slave." This introduction stands together with the explanation in paragraph 14 that we don't know the length, that it "usually" refers to a given description, and that Jesus "evidently" refers to a version of what it "usually" refers to. The only points that are given with "sureness" are these:
The generation had a beginning It will have an end The fulfillment of various features of the sign indicates that the tribulation must be near Note that it isn't by believing in a potential 'two-lifespan' generation that we are keeping up with advancing light and the leadings of holy spirit, but only explcitly by maintaining a sense of urgency, and keeping on the watch. As Christians we would do this with or without the two-lifespan generation, based on other scriptures, for example:
(2 Timothy 4:1, 2) . . .: 2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times. . .
(Ephesians 5:15, 16) 15 So keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons, 16 making the best use of your time, because the days are wicked.
(2 Peter 3:11, 12) . . .Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah. . .
 

OK.
As was already pointed out, we have always known that a generation can include overlapping contemporaries, but these contemporaries belong to another generation. The Watchtower has said that "three or even four generations" may overlap at the same time. So the overlapping explanation is not about how to define a single "generation that will not pass away." My own issue with the current explanation has more to do with the disrespect it shows to Jesus, in trying to twist up the meaning of language so much that we have inadvertently tried to present him as some kind of trickster.
*** w52 9/1 pp. 542-543 Questions From Readers ***
Your publications point out that the battle of Armageddon will come in this generation, and that this generation began A.D. 1914. Scripturally, how long is a generation?—G. P., Liberia.
Webster’s unabridged dictionary gives, in part, this definition of generation: “The average lifetime of man, or the ordinary period of time at which one rank follows another, or father is succeeded by child; an age. A generation is usually taken to be about 33 years.” But the Bible is not so specific. It gives no number of years for a generation. And in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32, the texts mentioning the generation the question refers to, we are not to take generation as meaning the average time for one generation to be succeeded by the next, as Webster’s does in its 33-year approximation; but rather more like Webster’s first-quoted definition, “the average lifetime of man.” Three or even four generations may be living at the same time, their lives overlapping. (Ps. 78:4; 145:4) Before the Noachian flood the life span was hundreds of years. Down through the centuries since, it has varied, and even now is different in different countries. The Bible does speak of a man’s days as being threescore and ten or fourscore years; but it assigns no specific number of years to a generation.—Ps. 90:10.
Even if it did, we could not calculate from such a figure the date of Armageddon, for the texts here under discussion do not say God’s battle comes right at the end of this generation, but before its end. To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon. All the events will come within the span of a generation. There are hundreds of millions of persons living now that were living in 1914, and many millions of these persons could yet live a score or more years. Just when the lives of the majority of them will be cut short by Armageddon we cannot say.
 
 

Actually, Acts 1:7 says there is something wrong with us banging on about the generation. It says it's none of our concern. It's not in our domain. Knowledge of the times and seasons does not belong to us. It belongs to the Father alone. Anyone who tries is overstepping their authority.
(Acts 1:7) . . .” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction [NWT fn: "authority"].
This is why Paul could say that we don't need anything written to us about chronology:
(1 Thessalonians 5:1) Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.

Because when he speaks out of line he will go off in a cryptic tangent, for this isn't my first rodeo with Srecko, hence why I go by HIS word to keep it focused. Unless you want to join him, you are welcome.
I don't think I am clever, as with my first discussion with you my words were obvious to which you accepted.
I haven't forgotten. I want to discuss Armageddon specifically with Srecko, anyone can chime in, but his stance is that the WT has some different view to which I explained to him briefly of what their view is, a quote, if you will.
But it would seem at this point the both of you do not know that much about Armageddon, which is ever so obvious.
I merely quoted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon#Jehovah's_Witnesses
nothing more.
If you go back to page 3, you will see what Srecko is asking for and I will quote him: It's pretty boring, if you have not noticed, and if that has not already been said to you by someone else. Please, try to focus your response on actual subject and not to disperse, spin discussion from Adam to Melchizedek to Revelation book. :)))
To which I responded: If yo u want to speak about Armageddon on, speak your re solve now, but this time when you want to go back to this focus, you say, do so without adding opinion and emotion into the text, use the Bible this time, nothing else but that and what the Word itself says.
So next time perhaps read the previous page before you jump ship, Butler.
I think I am Jesus when time and time again I speak of myself as a slave, a servant. The question was posed because he thinks we are not focused, but if you want to jump in by all means, Butler, please do.
No one is talking about predictions, we are speaking of solely Armageddon itself.
This is your opinion, you should be using the bible. According to the Book of Revelations in the Greek New Testament of the Bible, Armageddon is pretty much the day of God, of which he will execute Judgement on the wicked and all that is bad.
God our Father is a God of Justice, for even in Bible times you bear witness to such and when his judgement has been executed it is for a good reason. If you think God is going to send his Son to throw flowers and cookies in the face of the wicked, you are dead wrong, Mr. Butler.
It is far more than that, along wickedness also includes those who try to test God, those who do not apply God's Laws, those who are for brazen conduct, glorifers of sin, and a list of other things. Jesus will be coming with the army of which his Father put him in command of for Jesus has been made superior after being exalted by God according to Hebrews 1, and they will go and enact Justice in the name of God, for the Lord and Savior will be coming with a sword, and he will come to do what he was sent to do, for as a King, as a Warrior, as a bene elohim of El Shaddai, he will do what is needed to rid wickedness off the face of the earth.
And no, they won't be dropping dead as they stand, what part of God's Army or coming with a sword did you not understand. Warriors and or Soldiers will confront their enemy, from a distance or close quarters, it is no different from how the angels and even the Christ himself will do to the wicked, and we already know what angels are capable of, we have not seen or read about Jesus doing such, but him being superior, one can only imagine, now as for God, well, that is a whole different ball game.
No they won't. Death is swift, mainly if the act is committed by God in terms of Justice, remember what happen to several notable people in the Bible? They were dealt with swiftly, in an instant. The wicked will not even have a millisecond to think, to blink, perhaps to take a slight of breathe.
The Day of God can happen anytime, anywhere on this earth. This is why the Bible tells us explicitly to keep being vigilant for the day of God is near, as spoken of by Jesus and his followers, in to our day.
This is why we should endure and read the Word and follow it correctly and accordingly. You do not want to have the mindset of those who remained and or decided to return to Jerusalem, for such is foolish.
A great dealing of suffering, and a whole lot of it. In my experience what I had witnessed and heard, even by my hand, is like a haunting memory that torments. This is why I believe in the word, strongly, I believe in the truth and obvious be one to be an opponent of lies.
For I know God will send his Son again and help us for we are in need of such greatly.

But your word on the last page pretty much contradicts what you are conveying here.
You wanted to speak about Armageddon, I agreed and even said let us use the Bible, then immediately right after that you speak of the Watchtower this, Watchtower that when I had told you to use the bible regarding Armageddon.
And next thing you know it will derail and you will speak of cryptic and or flawed things, then you will seek out admin to come to your aid as you have done several times already. If you do not want to box in the ring, you should not have hopped in to begin with, Srecko.
And yes, Armageddon is the topic here, let's discuss it using the bible lone, unless you want to continue to seek aid from JWs and not make an effort yourself, it shows you cannot actual use the bible without given mention of them, i.e. when speaking about women, you brought up JWs and you misused Galatians 3:28, thus revealing yourself to be a mainstream Christian without much of an effort, I do not like mainstream Christians as you can see for months now.
Clearly you never saw me as a friend, and never will and I do not care, especially with that witch doctor remark of yours you made against me before, assuming I would take offence but Mr. Butler did you the favor of preventing what I had to say to you when he shifted the topic, the first time I discussed with you and my word is true from the last page as it is now.
So that being said, I put both you and Butler to task regarding Armageddon by means of the Bible alone, so far, Mr. Butler didn't realize how things will go down by means of what is spoken of Revelations and what Jesus had said.
You want to speak about Armageddon, let's have it then, Srecko, you can use any bible translation you want, and I can guarantee you that you wouldn't get far without speaking about anything to do with JWs, as God bears witness to my words regarding this.

A Buffet of Biblical Banter.  Whew! 
 

Not all only the wicked and those of lawlessness and all things bad. One thing for certain - it will not be a flood.

Just speaking for myself....on this Slanderous Topic....I have NEVER left my children...EVER "one on one" with ANYONE....besides My Parents.    I don't care WHO they were....muchless, What organization they might be affiliated with.     
             The "human factor".....

This is an illogical statement. There must be a proper investigation in the first place in order to find no solid proof or no witnesses or the telling of lies. Usually the elders take any report of child abuse very seriously. And in the Montana case under discussion, it is obvious the elders did find the perpetrator guilty. I think what you mean to say is that the elders are not as qualified as persons who are especially trained from a secular point of view.  But the elders are qualified to handle this from a spiritual aspect. And as elders this is what they are concerned with. Problems have arisen because this situation needs also to be handled secularly, and if the perpetrator is found guilty, to be punished by secular law also, not just disfellowshipped.

There was a young lady of Niger, Who smiled as she rode on a tiger; They returned from the ride With the lady inside And the smile on the face of the tiger.

I adjusted my inbox...to do just that.   Thanks.  

Give it a rest, man.   Again....WHEW!    

I know this is the Truth....i am not hurt.   I see these wonderful posts that are based on logic...from others, not you.  Your heart is seared...move on.   Bottom Line.     "England swings like a pendulum do"        Pray about this....You have been jaded by Satan...the "Father of the...what??? Yes.....the Lie.   And You bought it.    I feel sorry for you, John.     
 

It all boils down to Trusting Jehovah and His Appointed King.   Therein lie True Justice.  You have to know that.   

The posted question suggest that God is vengeful and unjust. If atheism is at play, there is no biblical solution, other than to suggest how well has humanity dealt with itself.
A simple biblical application for believers of a righteous God, Romans 3:4-6