Matthew9969

I know I'm late in this thread, but I disassociated myself, some jw's shunned me and some didn't. I know some disgellowshiped ones who still had a relationship with their jw family.
But I ask, how do elders punish someone if they are not jw's?

One cannot claim that the organization doesn't coerce people into remaining members when the are literally being blackmailed with the threat of family estrangement if they leave.
To add context this is the elders letter instructing them to disfellowshipped someone who has apostate beliefs.  Mind you this says nothing as to whether or not they are promoting their beliefs just that they have believed that differ from what this aside he says they need to accept.
however even if they were what's wrong with that? Don't JWs apostasize from their religious all the time? Why is it ok for  individuals to leave their respective religions, join the WT organization,  and speak out against their former religion but if someone who was previously a witness did this very thing then they deserve to be punished?

Gotta feel sorry for those who feel they have to have a relationship with a book publishing company in order to have a relationship with God.

Anybody can give out free bibles and teach others to read.

I am curious, why the need to keep a strict chronological timeline of the doctrinal changes of the watchtower? Since the Governing body is the faithful and discreet slave, and Gods mouthpiece, is their spiritual ear hard of hearing, or is Jehovah changing doctrine?

@Israeli Bar Avaddhon
Sir, I have put your quotes in green:
My question is: to go where?
Sir, we go to the one who has the sayings of eternal life, which Srecko highlighted with scripture.   It is the Son of God. It isn’t the Watchtower, since the leaders admit to not being inspired and haven’t been since the beginning.  Rev 2:2,9; Rev 3:8-13
Can you see that the disciples followed only Jesus?
“But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  John 6:68,69
Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?
“Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.” 1 John 2:15,16  That includes the Watchtower. 
Any Watchtower errors do not make false religion a little bit more truth.
Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
 “Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this (literal) mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”
“But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:10,21,23,24
I would be very careful before saying "leave this religion".
“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.  For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.  In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’  Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”
This cannot refer to Christendom, because as you say, God’s people are being disciplined.  This refers to the Watchtower, where God’s anointed ones are “camped”.  Rev 20:9
 “Flee from the midst of Babylon,
And every one save his life!
Do not be cut off in her iniquity,
For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance;
He shall recompense her.
 Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,
That made all the earth drunk.
The nations drank her wine;
Therefore the nations are deranged.”
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Yet, the Watchtower promotes itself as Zion.
 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” John 18:36-38a
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6
Is Jesus making an exception to this rule for an organization fabricated through the use of worldly tools and situated in, Satan’s world?  Think about it.  God and Christ are pure, while the organization is filthy rich, and run as other corporate entities are, in Satan’s world.  Why would Jesus use Satan’s resources, who literally wants to kill off all Christ’s anointed brothers (Gen 3:15) and condone anything in this system?  The Watchtower consistently teaches you to be ‘no part of the word’ yet they are so mired down in its dung, JWs see only the icing on the; well,....  It is blasphemy for an organization so full of false prophesy, false security, sin against victims of child abuse,, lawsuits,  and disfellowshipped individuals who desire to follow the truth in Christ – to call itself “the truth” and “Zion”.   
It is the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 and the ‘spirit-breathed’ Beast of Revelation.  (spirit-directed organization)
“Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.”  Rev 13:1
Read further and see how this Beast comes against God’s Temple/anointed ones; (1 Cor 3:16,17) accompanied by a false prophet who authorizes the “trampling”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3
During the discipline of Jehovah many "fake brothers" will no longer exist. Probably there will not be anyone who has idolized men above the Word of God.  We can not know how many will be, how many will remain.
The faithful to God and Christ are found “outside the camp”, despised as “garbage”, persecuted by their own brethren for following the one Master, Jesus Christ. Matt 6:24; John 15:6; Heb 13:12-15; 1 Cor 4:13; Matt 5:11; 24:48-51
“Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
Who write misfortune,
Which they have prescribed
2 To rob the needy of justice,
And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
That widows may be their prey,
And that they may rob the fatherless.
3 What will you do in the day of punishment,
And in the desolation which will come from afar?
To whom will you flee for help?
And where will you leave your glory?
4 Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
And they shall fall among the slain.”
For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.
Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.” 
Then the rest of the trees of his forest
Will be so few in number
That a child may write them.”  Isa 10:1-4, 12, 19
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.  Matt 7:18,20
Please, do not perceive the large print as “yelling”, but to help connect the importance of Christ’s words – although it is a trumpet call to leave the crumbling wall of lies behind. Rev 11:2,3   Ezek chapter 13 is having its second fulfillment. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

The idea that 1975 would witness the end of the world was first introduced in 1966.

IT'S AMAZING HOW YOU CAN TAKE THE WORDS "6,000 YEARS OF MANS EXISTENCE WILL END" AND MAKING IT END IN 1975 AND CONCLUDE THAT IT REALLY DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.

Good point.
Watchtower’s governing body member, Anthony Morris, stated just recently that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  (JW broadcasting)
He comments, “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; If you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but OBEY THE DECISION.
JWs are being told that whether they understand Watchtower’s decrees or not, they must be obeyed.  Jesus tells us how we are to discern what a true teaching is.  Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:43-45 
He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”
This is utterly impossible, since the Governing Body admitted to not being inspired.  (Wt. 2017/2 pp. 20-26, par. 12)  
Anthony Morris commented, “the decisions that are made by the faithful slave today, are made collectively.  Not one man is making these decisions, these decisions are made collectively”.
Do JWs see the conundrum?  Firstly, he says they are not a collection of man made decisions. Then says, the decisions are made collectively.  Honestly; these are your leaders, JWs, who are speaking out of both sides of the mouth! 
“Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God—who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly—and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord,  being double-minded and unstable in all his ways.“  James 1:5-8
 Uninspired men are proclaiming they are the channel used by God who governs the organization from heaven; and yet, it is through Holy Spirit that God would grant the understanding of His will. John 14:15-17   Is there another “channel” aside from Holy Spirit? Yes, there is. 
“For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!”  2 Cor 11:4
“A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”  Luke 6:45
“Inspiration” means inhalation; a drawing in of breath.  The antonym is “exhalation” – the breath that leaves via the mouth.  Since the GB admit to not receiving Holy Spirit – “inspiration”, their gospel is sourced in another spirit. Only one type of “inspiration” can fill the heart – and overflow it.   
God’s true messengers/witnesses receive inspiration from Holy Spirit. It is what teaches faithful anointed ones. 1 John 2:20,27; John 14:26  There is no inter-mediator; no consulting in an interior room, behind closed doors, or voting on a “decree”. John 16:12-14; Matt 10:20; Luke 12:12; Matt 24:23-27   
These uninspired men must rely on each other to pass their decrees, which all JWs must obey, even if  their decrees are later considered an 'err in direction'.
“If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.  Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23
“Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.  For who knows a person’s thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 
Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 
 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
But the person without the Spirit (the uninspired governing body) does not receive what comes from the God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
The spiritual person, (one individual) however, can evaluate everything, and yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 1 Cor 2:10-15
Following and obeying men and their teachings who pass decrees devoid of Holy Spirit, yet hypocritically say they have their source in God, are hiding the true source of the spirit that guides them.  John 8:44
By accepting these hypocritical teachings, the hearer is also receiving a “different spirit”.  Yet, JWs put up with it – “splendidly”.  2 Cor 11:4
Why?
1 Pet 3:10; 3 John 11
 

Doesn't the watchtower teach that Jehovah finally gave up on the nation and replaced it with a spiritual nation of Israelites which consist of only the anointed 144,000 when Jesus wept upon entering Jerusalem?

Yes, the watchtower has had to make a way to make baptism a legally binding contract between the baptisee and the watchtower bible and tract society. The jehovahs witness baptism is simple idolatry at it's deceptive best.

Not sure what you found so offensive. So on this note, could you as a moderator please tell jw's here to back up erroneous claims especially when they are the ones saying something condemning ex jw's. thank you

Not sure what you found so offensive. So on this note, could you as a moderator please tell jw's here to back up erroneous claims especially when they are the ones saying something condemning ex jw's. thank you

So no jehovahs witness here is willing to provide a study that says apostates are 3 times more likely to have a mental illness, or along those lines. Again jw's support this claim, but are too cowardly to back it up with facts, just a video from a professor that even himself admits, all the data he has is old, unreliable, biased and not trustworthy. 
Thank you jw's for showing even further your true colors.

So no jehovahs witness here is willing to provide a study that says apostates are 3 times more likely to have a mental illness, or along those lines. Again jw's support this claim, but are too cowardly to back it up with facts, just a video from a professor that even himself admits, all the data he has is old, unreliable, biased and not trustworthy. 
Thank you jw's for showing even further your true colors.

Some jw's don't mind their governing body talking down about them. Not a very christian attitude the governing body has towards their congregants.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

Some jw's don't mind their governing body talking down about them. Not a very christian attitude the governing body has towards their congregants.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

Yes, the watchtower has had to make a way to make baptism a legally binding contract between the baptisee and the watchtower bible and tract society. The jehovahs witness baptism is simple idolatry at it's deceptive best.

Yet, that is what the Watchtower has enforced, when it reminds individuals:
"Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by baptism in water? If you have, that is wonderful! Do you remember when the brother giving the baptism talk asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”?  Wt 4/2017
And what the most recent second baptism question requires:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."
The questions you answered to publicly are found in the Wt 1944, 2/1 p. 44
Thank new light for the condensing down and filtering out the important elements of the two questions asked of you, to:
"On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?"
 

When my wife applied to regular pioneer, she was unprepared for the question about objectionable - or is it unsuitable for a Christian? - music. Never one to blow things away, she answered that she does listen to it sometimes. "Well," she explained later to some elders, "if the Beach Boys come on and sing 'Wouldn't it be nice to live together,' I do not turn off the radio. This appeared to satisfy them. "We've never had someone answer this way," they said, looking befuddled.
On the night that her appointment was announced, I approached those elders. "You're making a big mistake! How can you allow her privileges?! She does nothing but listen to rap all day and heavy metal all night! I expected you brothers to straighten her out!"
 

We are now very close to the great tribulation!
A brother of the betel was concluding his speech when he made the following comment: " Be intensely busy with the word of God," I would like listening very carefully. We who are in Betel we are privileged to work with the faithful and discreet slave and with the body of directors and I wish know you how he feels the body of directors about the time we live now in this system of things.
The faithful slave feels that it is already happened to the Matthew 24:14 prophecy: "quest for good news the kingdom's be preached in all the inhabited earth."
What does the party later this word? He says that ... then the end will come.
He knew you that there are only three countries in the world where there are no Jehovah's Witnesses?
ONLY 3 countries!
Somalia, North Korea and Afghanistan ...
This does not mean that there does not reach the in our literature to but just that there are not Jehovah's Witnesses. I had mentioned earlier to some friends and they wanted to know why there are no Jehovah's Witnesses in these countries. I 'll tell you the reason.
Jehovah does not send his people to any place where he knows that van there! * (See footnote)
But in these three countries the good news have already been published (I guess it refers to the fact that literature is still available).
Matthew 14, Luke 21, Mark 13, as well as Revelation 6: these words are ending (?)
So what is the biblical prophecy that still has to fulfill?
You know what?
The read for you.
See Revelation 17: 15-17 - (read the prophecy)
The faithful slave is waiting for the day Jehovah will put this thought into their hearts.
This is the next prophecy that must be fulfilled. For those who know what it means, this will cause the great tribulation.
Once this is fulfilled , the door will be closed (in a spiritual sense).
Whatever thing you did, you can not go back.
"I could have done this or that if I had more time."
Now is the time!
How will you spend the time you stay?
For what are you working or are you committed ?
- in higher education?
- you are struggling to get more money and material goods?
- you are engaged in the distractions of the world?
Or are you undertake to favor the kingdom.?
We do things urgently, we try to be quick! (Story running on facebook between of various witnesses of Jehovah accounts)
  I want to point out that the aforementioned text is the translation of the translation of a translation and then of specific phrases may have been distorted sense. Apart from that, however, the general sense of the discourse is clear. Assuming that they are not the ravings of some overzealous brother (which still brings out what they believe, more or less openly, many Jehovah's Witnesses), the meaning is as follows. The prophecies have almost all been fulfilled.  
The preaching was completed.  
We are just waiting for the fall of Babylon the Great.  
  Our expectations are really in harmony with God's Word?   That's it? Some brother more in later years and with a good memory will recall that statements like these (views from different angles) have already been made in the past. Without wishing to be too argumentative, beyond the past mistakes, it is clear that sooner or later you have to get to the point where it will begin the great tribulation, will fall Babylon the Great, and you will enter the Millennial Kingdom. The fact we were wrong in the past, more than once, this in itself does not prove that you're wrong again. Could it really be so and definitely not wrong to keep alive the sense of urgency - compare Matthew 24:42; Revelation 16:15 Beyond, however, the "hint" that each of us can have, the only thing we should do is search the scriptures to try to understand "what extent we are old" in reference to biblical prophecy. It is true: if we take the writing of Matthew 24:14 and we make an analysis of the presence of our brothers in the world, probably we would come to the same conclusion of the aforesaid brother in the introduction of this article (always assuming that the report is credible). The question, however, end here? Being such an important subject, it would be no need to also examine other scriptures to see if you dial a credible framework or if "something is not right"? Moreover, as the same "slave" has admitted, they are not inspired and therefore we would like to build on something more than a simple "I want you to know how you feel the governing body about the time we live in." The Bible is not "imperfect spiritual food", does not lend itself to corrections or rewards, does not change with time and definitely do not mind - John 17:17; Romans 3: 4; James 1:17; Titus 1: 2 Obviously you are not suggesting that the interpretations of this blog are infallible; far from it. You simply want to emphasize that the Bible is always to have the last word and so we must look for answers there, not in our desires or people that we value - Matthew 4: 4 Some do not even accept the possibility that even those who are taking the lead can go wrong (as if they were human beings). For some to question the statement "slave" is an indication of lack of respect and submission but this is a myopic view of the situation. We know that many times the people of God fed wrong expectations about the future and about the will of God - compares Isaiah 28: 14-19 They were the people of God but this, in itself, did not guarantee the protection and the priests themselves, more often, showed a complete ignorance of the Scriptures - John 3:10 This also happened with good intentions and the best people - compares 1 Samuel 16: 7 Considering the biblical past, trying to see what the Bible says to beyond the proclamation and to everyone who comes , is not it the best? - 1 Thessalonians 5:21; Romans 15: 4; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 The Lord Jesus Christ himself, the one who was the wisest of all men , and that he could speak of his own initiative, not perhaps did the same? - Matthew 4: 4-10 Questioning certain statements (not for bias, of course) is not a lack of respect towards the index "slave"; on the contrary, it shows profound respect for the one true authority of God's Word - Psalm 31: 5; Acts 17:11 Let us examine the claim that the prophecies would almost all be fulfilled, and we just have to wait the fall of Babylon the Great. The officer says that understanding God's Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914, by 1918 the heavens were purified, in 1919 the heavenly resurrection began (as well as the purification of the people of God) and so on. Perhaps there is some error in this generalization also because of the constant "adjustments" (adjustments that change the periods of a few months, ever the concepts) but roughly this is what you believe.

In this article you will see just how the logic and writing can corroborate or invalidate these ideas. The official explanation identifies the slaughtered head of death Revelation 13: 3 as the Anglo-American empire. It is true that the book that lists this explanation (the Revelation Its Grand Climax) has now been withdrawn but there is nothing new on the horizon that, until there is a different explanation, this is the ultimate understanding accepted. As we saw this explanation is problematic because the Anglo-American empire, according to official explanations, is the "king of the South" described in the Bible book of Daniel. However in Daniel is the king of the north to win the last war, and so it is obvious that something is not right - Daniel 11: 40-45 Of course we can not say that Daniel and Revelation contradict, does not it? To focus with Daniel Revelation there are only two possibilities. Or the Anglo-American empire is actually the king of the north ** (see note below) or head slaughtered to death that you see in Revelation can not be the Anglo-American empire. Does not it seem logical reasoning? How can the Anglo-American empire (and be the king of the south) if Daniele does understand that the last ruling king, or what will be defeated by Michele, is the king of the north? In Revelation we do not see another political power that defeats the beast that ascends from the sea. After the Great War (which can also have multiple stages), do not talk about other human wars in Revelation, right? - 1 Thessalonians 5: 3 The last war we are talking about and who participates in this beast is against the God Almighty - Revelation 16: 10-14, 16 The conclusion is logical. Apart from the fact that the end will come when the preaching has reached "all the inhabited earth" before this you will see the clash between the king of the north and the king of the south. And must win the king of the north, of course. In the last World War he has probably won the king of the north as well as to assert that "we just have to wait over the fall of Babylon the Great"? Absolutely no. The last king of the north was the Third Reich and, during the battle against the king of the south (the Anglo-American empire, in fact) it came out defeated. This is a prophecy that still has not been fulfilled and it is more than enough to establish that it is not enough that the preaching arrivals in these last three remaining countries. Among other things, the writing of Matthew 24:14 does not give any basis for determining how long the good news has to take place in a given country in order to receive adequate testimony. If tomorrow our brothers  they come in those nations and begin to preach ... how much time would pass until God considered adequate and sufficiently complete that testimony? The answer is simple: we do not know . However, although that has yet to burst the war between the king of the north and king of the south, it is conceivable that in the meantime there are other prophecies that have to be fulfilled or are being fulfilled, is not it? As we have seen in several previous articles before the war should emerge a certain persecution of brothers (you have tribulation, but is not yet the great tribulation ) because the king of the north must start to suppress the daily sacrifice (the preaching work ) until you get to completely suppress it - see Daniel 8: 10-12, 24, 25 In our recent past, the preaching work was perhaps suppressed completely, which it did by means of the king of the north? According to the prophecy, and this must be done only during the last years of the scheme of things it must have a last impulse - compares Revelation 10:11; 14: 6, 7 E 'at this point that the preaching work will reach the ends of the earth, and this will happen very quickly - Zechariah 4: 6 The total suppression of preaching did not happen even during the Second World War and certainly did not happen in all countries; Also this leaves well understand that it is a prophecy to come. There is much more to say but the above should be sufficient, even for those who disagree with the explanations of this blog, to reflect that the Great, "you can not expect only the fall of" Babylon. Who has respect for the Bible itself to be shaped by it. Of course what has been said does not want to show that the end will come "who knows when." In contrast, recent international events suggest that we are far ahead in the end time  All the events described above will occur in a very short time so when we can really begin to come to "raise high head" - Luke 21:28 Those who have lifted up their heads in 1914 all died with a stiff neck but when these things begin to take place (such as the war between the king of the north and king of the south) we can do it peacefully because of this incident until the actual fall of Babylon the Great (which will not be the world empire of false religion ) will spend a maximum of ten years. So us ensure that our expectations are in harmony with the Word of God not to be disappointed - Isaiah 28:16 Us ensure that our expectations are in harmony with the Word of God to be prepared for what's to come and not discouraged - 2 Peter 1:19; Proverbs 24:10 Us ensure that our expectations are in harmony with the Word of God, ultimately, for our lives - Matthew 7:24, 25     The Bible traces the path. It will not lead to disappointment.   Footnote. * The translation was not very clear. ** From previous articles we saw that the Anglo-American empire is indeed the king of the south.

What do you suppose the graph would look like if the A.R.C findings were put on jw.org?