Space Merchant

10 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

Seems  to  be  the  results  of our  bad  sick  world   In  many  countries  the  same...

And corruption, where it is, there is always a problem, many people, even my own, get the worse of it, one of the reason why I await for all badness to be purged for good because for some of us it drowns out our culture entirely and the new young ones who come will be engulfed in that change and badness and think the negative things are good, when in reality it is bad.

On 8/31/2018 at 11:15 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

...... Believing that agenda driven  clueless cruelty is a "loving provision" takes a LOT of faith in the PEOPLE pushing that viewpoint for the enhancement  and consolidation of their authority.

Plus, having great fear that non-compliance to "The Agenda" will make you next to be caught in its grip.

..... believing that you are NOT looking at a duck does not require an Einstein to figure it out.

If it looks like a duck .... walks like a duck .... and quacks like a duck ..... IT'S A DUCK!

It only requires that you be honest with yourself at what you are looking at.

Cruelty, mis-labeled ... is STILL cruelty.

 

 

The sad reality is no one knows what the Agenda is, but the so and so in the deep state thinks we, the people do not know.

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

@Space Merchant, More importantly, the claim that is most confusing is one you are apparently still trying to hold onto for some reason.

I said:

And you replied:

This is still completely false. There is no degree to which the Septuagint is related to 1 Timothy 3:16.

You are right about 1 Timothy 3:16 not having the word "God" in the original, just as nearly all NT scholars would agree. I am only wishing to correct any misunderstanding your statements might cause with respect to the nature and value of the Septuagint.

I see it now when I rechecked my notes, I was comparing all oldest sources into one category, and had noted the Septuagint on my original list having the Vaticanus noted to be in connection with the Seeptugaint as with 2-3 other codex of which I pulled from a very old source, in regards to such not having GOD/THEOS, under it I have B (not listed), Aleph, A, C, and D, 2 others not listed and we have the Patristic Witnesses.

In the correct listing in it's original place it is Which and or HE, but never does one see God until very later on when such was added to the text itself, and because of this, Trinitarians will go out of their way to paint Jesus as God when in reality he is not. The next problem they face is of whom Paul revealed in writing afterwards, for if a Trinitarian makes the claim Jesus is God, they also go out of their way to address that Paul later on spoke of the Christ, therefore, they have somehow got themselves 2 Jesuses, which will cause problems for them.

I pulled this from my notes after go back in all my writings and was going about a specific codex.

 

The Manuscript Evidence   Manuscript Common Name Date Text B Codex Vaticanus ca. 300 Does not contain 1 Timothy Aleph Codex Sinaiticus ca. 350 who was manifest in flesh A Codex Alexandrinus ca. 450 who was manifest in flesh C Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus ca. 450 who was manifest in flesh D Codex Claromontanus ca. 550 which was manifest in flesh   Peshitta Coptic Ethiopic Sahidic   which was manifest in flesh   Gothic   which was manifest in flesh    Patristic Witness Quotations of 1 Timothy 3:16 in the Fathers Author Reference Date Evidence Comments Ante-Nicene Church All Writings 70-325 A.D. None Not quoted by any writer before Nicea Arian Controversy Church All Writings 325 - 381 A.D. None Not quoted by any writer until late in the fourth century

The situation worsens there by the day, and the economy is so bad that money from a video game seems to surpass it (https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/08/world/world-of-warcraft-token-worth-more-than-venezuelas-currency-trnd/index.html). But yes, this country will not do so well as long as the corruption thrives there.

One my source of which I view went there before, he was nearly killed there, that is how bad it is now. The horrid thing is good people are mixed in with the bad as the bad commits chaos and problems for others.

@JW Insider No worries and thanks. I said what I said because I know if I had never saved that information, not knowing he will delete his current and a year old post on Glasgow, he would say something entirely different, for I had only saved it to make note of what to research on, only to find out Sostar deleted both post at the same time.

But this is common on some forums, for someone will say something, then deleted it afterwards when people see it, and when it is brought up again, the original poster will speak negatively and act as if his own words do not belong to him, but when one have a snippet of what is deleted and or in full, the tables turn quickly and what is said remains on whatever forum in question for as long as the forum exist, which is the case here. So if anyone, even guests, who want to see the whole Glasgow thing, they see it there, should anyone opposite to them take what Sostar had said with seriousness, the actual information is there that says otherwise.

But yes, everyone makes mistaken, even me, for I tend to dwell on things with minor paranoia, other times, when dealing with oneness and Trinity believers I tend to get irritated and often go overboard only to correct myself after, mainly when I do not have my research notes with me, when I forget something that becomes an issue. But in Sostar's case, he is just a different case entirety.

But yes, some people learn things, some people have a hard time learning, while others do not learn at all.

The good thing is, she is not practicing the pagan practice of celebration of one's birth, and or allowing the practice of Artemis to enter into the home in regards to good and evil spirit teachings.

The irony here is elsewhere, non-religious people are throwing down the facts about Birthdays and or celebration of one's birth in connection to paganism.

If anything, Jesus told us one thing, to remember his death and what it means.

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Unfortunately, the FIRST responsibility of Witch Doctors. Shamans, Priests, Clergy, Elders, and THE Governing Body ... is to protect their own jobs, power and authority, real estate, and money.

This is how religions have ALWAYS evolved, once they start accumulating real estate and piles of money ... and start dressing well.

We are NOT the exception.

From my experience, Witch Doctors do not rely on jobs, well the ones who plague the Caribbean islands of course. If anything, they tend to rely on supporters, those who support them and the like, and such ones will do the most vicious of things and even will kill and or target someone. I know because I lost a cousin, she was age 16, and 2 uncles to such ones (all of whom who had been killed in a brutal fashion, one of my uncles were poisoned by them) and the greatest among them are the more demonic type, the only reason some in the country will say there is demon influence and or manifestation among them because such ones are quite hardcore in this practice. It is also the reason why some have issue with blood, for that is what such ones are after in some cases.

I also recall, on another forum I use to be part of, a Christian Youth Group had the night of their life when they didn't know they camped too close to a Witch Doctor's hideout, this is why one cannot be dwelling on forbidding areas in the first place, furthermore, lot some people also, even among JWs were killed by such ones and evil people such as these only thrive because they make their practice popular and they have culturalized it, and because of political corruption, such ones get stronger everyday.

As they say among my people, si ce ne sont pas les rebelles qui vous attrapent pendant la journee, c'est le monstre de la nuit qui le fait meaning:  if it isn't the rebels that get you during the day, it is the monster of the night that do.

 

That being said, people are more concern with what a religious faith is doing with the money, mainly if such is to help the people of the church and to help others, as well as advancing the gospel.

One of the biggest reason I am somewhat strict when it comes to the Bible is because wickedness at that level I want God to purge entirely, for such things my people face are stuff of nightmares, and all of us witness far more dangerous things than a Witch Doctor. As for the many people killed by them and rebels combined, these people I want to be resurrected, for they didn't deserve the worse they got from demonic persons and the wicked will get theirs since God is not a fan of sorcery.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Mr JW  Insider this down is my comment in full version as respond to Space Merchant. Judge by yourself what is it. All of us as private or legal persons/entities have NUMBER. And that is what i try to show  to SM. Who gave us number? For what purpose? For what sort of work?

As in who gave us the number, the website of which you listed states it very clearly, the links for your website states the following (I'll link you the glossary on the final part):

Quote

Business name(s)

The national business names registration service has replaced state and territory services, meaning you only need to register your business name once with a single national register.

The new service commenced on 28 May 2012 and is managed and administered by the Australian Securities & Investments Commission (ASIC).

If your business does not operate under your own entity name (e.g. GLM Pty Limited or Jane Smith), you will need a registered business name.

To apply for a registered business name you will need to have (or be in the process of applying for) an Australian business number (ABN). This is to assist with the identification of the entity behind a business name.

If you have registered a new business name with ASIC after 28 May 2012, ASIC will automatically update the ABR and ABN Lookup with this information.

To register for, update or cancel a business name, you will need to go to the ASIC website .

 

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

About Glasgow video. Yes that was my mistake. I was relied to much on those who put that video, not in full length. Second problem is my English and to not listen more carefully. Mea culpa with smile! :)) Would somebody stoned me because it?

You didn't rely on the video because the video in question even tells you of who will come to Glasgow and the venues of which they will reside in, the video's title, of which you relied on states the following:

The December 2017 (December 9, 2017) comment made by you was of your own design, not of anyone else, for their concern is being part of the world or not, you took it a step further by stating the following: JWorg attracted thousands of people and millions of pounds to Scotland on XX Commonwealth Games, Glasgow 2014.

When this thread existed, it only pointed back to one source when goggle searched: Srecko Sostar.

You also went on to say the following: 

video reveal JWorg in sport and business events, Glasgow 2014. OR UK TV news  REPORTERS WERE LIE? Among some Scottish Products :))) is JWorg. How many JW rank and files surfed on you-tube, in 2014 and after, to find out what was been actual in 2014, and be in time with activities of their religion? ~ Sostar

If anyone looks at that video, they themselves can clearly see this was not the case, not even outlandish sources would make that remark either and this was pointed out by you and only you when the video gave a clue of something entirely different. Mind you, as I said before, everyone else' concern was those being part of the world or not, hence why some of the comments were deleted by the poster, but no one made claim to what you have stated, not even part of it alludes to such of what you stated.

The other thread you deleted, in connection to this in discussion, you even stated that the JWs were running a business this way, this was prior to when you deleted everything as of July 18th, 2018.

Indeed this was a mistake, but what was added into the mix was of your design, no one else, be it members of the faith, disgruntled ones, and or other.

I mean everyone makes error, even me, but going this far is silly.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

?People on responsible positions in WT making many and much more worst  errors on global level for at least 8 000 000 people. How many looked my deleted post? And with what response, with what consequences for their life? Thanks for reading this! 

You'd be surprised when your information was passed on. Let's just say an Arab had a few words to say on this matter, and people do read into things, and also tend to connect it with something and or someone.

Everyone is aware, regardless of their faith and or background, that the venue was of used 2 weeks after the sporting event, I mean, the Hydro SSE is quite the spectacular venue, who could miss that when it is the talk of the ton to some?

Everyone makes errors, even JWs, for a I told you before, we are all imperfect and it is the price of which we pay, for there is good and there is bad, something of which you took issue with before also.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.

I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))

 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4

Here is the Link of which I had mentioned, therefore, understanding is of importance: https://abr.business.gov.au/Help/Glossary

 

If the Awesome Church is registered as a Business Name/Number, it does not make them a legitimate business (and lord and behold, it can be looked up and found, even though I do not take kindly to Trinitarians, their ABN can be found and is in connection with a legitimate source), just another religious institution, the same case can be made of any of whom is of religious position and or non-profit.

No one is asking to stone you, they are merely asking you to read into things, for yes we do make errors, but to continue to make error upon error upon error and using said error only shows you, be it corrected or not, do not take the time to read into things. I myself tend to jump to conclusion on things, mainly when someone says something that does not bode well with me or something else, but at least, later on I try to learn something. You must do the same also otherwise one can accept what Gone Away have stated of your words, flawed.

That being said, that is all that will be said of you and the other things speak for itself, like you having yet to show me the truth of Chloe elsewhere. But will leave it at that because  because you expect so-and-so to save you for a second time, it won't happen here, nor ever again, hence why I am more aware of how you tend to do things.

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

Are we talking about the JW shunning that I am familiar with? If so, a JW parent will completely cut an exJW child off. Nothing more than well-being checkups. You know the gravity of that--it's not a minor thing. Christians shouldn't return evil for evil, but they also shouldn't reward bad behavior. There has to be a balance. And shunning of children goes beyond what can be tolerated--it is an immoral practice. A grandparent has no rights to see their grandchildren; it's actually a privilege and a blessing to be a part of their lives. It makes absolutely no sense for a person to reward their shunners with that opportunity.

There is only 3 forms of shunning/expelling, each faith practices either of the 3, be it Christian, Judaism and or Islam, but among Christianity, all 3 is in practice by each group, only 1 form of it is correct.

They do not completely cut off their child, as some, even former JWs have made claim to this only to be targeted by disgruntled JWs. When someone is expelled from a church, they are cut-off from church ties entirely, although can still attend, they are not allowed to partake and or be part of sermons and or some actions taken within the church, but family ties still remain, even regarding that of children. When the child is obviously older and dwells upon Apostasy, should he or she chooses that path, family ties still remain, but there will be a clear atmosphere when it comes to those who practice a faith vs. those who are interfaith and or is disgruntled towards the faith.

Just because one is expelled and or shunned, it does not stop someone from taking action to go to visit a relative and or a friend, mainly when the one who is both expelled and shunned is not an Apostate or one who spreads interfaith division among the fold.

But as I said before, it expelling/shunning is indeed a problem to you, you'd have to speak on against what Binding and Loosening mean, for I can assure you if Jesus never had entrusted the church with such abilities, expelling/shunning would not be a thing at all, but you have to come to the realization as to why excommunication/shunning commands exist.

I also said you it is not as bad as the Herem version whereas all ties of any sort is completely cut off from the church, the people, the family, even the town/community as a whole, and you are not even allowed inside a place of worship at all.

But it does make me curious, of which of Jesus commanded and what the Apostles, even Paul practiced, in your eyes, what is the right form of expelling/shunning practices among the 3 major ones you profess?

I had another source, but I have to look for it, this is the best I can do for now: http://shamelesspopery.com/biblical-excommunication/

 

@JW Insider It was regarding his Glasgow comment from a while back of which he put forth before, only after doing some research I see the errors and made the response, even not yielding upon assumption. He quickly deleted both comments from Dec. 2017 and Jul. 2018, in the same thread he used a registry and or census via link to make proof of an owned business, location being Australia if I remember correctly, when actually seeing the link itself we do not see any proof of an owned business or corporation, just a listed non-profit and nothing more, granted such websites that have a registry of this kind have a list of institutions and other things. Not sure but you had a bit of a presence on this thread too from a while back. The deleted item linked was done immediately on Sostar's part when the research have been made, for if it was not for the research my response would have been different. As for the video that came from the now deleted 2017 post by him, it can still be found on YouTube of which it paints the faith as being part of the world and or sponsoring a sporting event or banking on it for that matter, when in reality, they simply rented out the Hydro venue weeks after the sporting event.

Some of us may be quick to assume things and or say something and later do the research if need be, but it was and never is the case with this man, as to wherever and anywhere he is seen.

@TrueTomHarley The thing is we have a big enemy, an enemy people are not paying attention to, and it is only drawing in more converts, all one can do is avoid such, be vigilant and be aware, and be very very careful. There are some things I have to further do research on to find more information, some of which even overwrites what I already know, but the more you go deeper into these things, the more you want to seek. Another problem for me, as do some, most sources I rely on have gotten axe'd since the whole Alex Jones thing and it is not that easy as it use to be to seek out clear information as of late.

That being said, I had been recommend a small source of which I am getting use to for some days now regarding things in the EU, especially Russia.

Other than that, after what went down for my people, I, as do others, tend to be a bit paranoid at times.

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Almost every point in that portion I requoted from you is debatable.

The thing here is, it is considered the oldest and most reliable source, as well as to what connects to it, and it is indeed known by all, even to those of other faiths, well, those who try to take in the information if possible. If there is an error you see here, by all means you can response for when I speak of the Septuagint, I speak of it as well as anything in regards to the 4th century in connection to it.

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The Septuagint has nothing to do with the original manuscript of 1 Timothy 3:16. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the original, older Hebrew manuscripts of the "Old Testament." Timothy is in the "New Testament."

To some degree it does, mainly to what we have which is in connection with The Septuagint itself or 4th century sources, for it is the only reason as to why I said what I said, putting them in the same category as the oldest and most reliable source, which is indeed true compared to the 16th century or Textus Receptus based changes that did not originate with any of the older sources as seen when comparing some Translations to the KJV/NKJV. The problem here is because the verse in question states GOD/THEOS when in reality it does not say, some people are quick to think of Jesus as God when in reality, this is not the case,  the thought of such makes it very confusing and odd, even to the one who professes such, one of the reason why the some people, even today will push this on to others believing this is actual truth when one can realize for themselves GOD is not included in the verse itself, and it is , irritating when met with KJV-Onlyist and Trinitarians seem to champ that of the 16th century over the oldest source itself.

The verse in it's original form only says Who/He, some translations being equal to that at the same time in respects to the Strong's, but nowhere do we see the word GOD being used unless it is a TR or a something similar to a 1245, and even some revised Translations omitted GOD from the verse, and for good reason.

@Jesus.defender The Deserter has returned.

This has nothing t do with Jehovah's Witnesses, but rather, The Septuagint, The Oldest and Most Reliable Source of which the Bible originates from and it is known by ALL persons who know of and study it, me included.

Once again, you shot yourself in the foot, purposely, and actual Textual Criticism defeats you before you can even take a step.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations

http://www.biblebookprofiler.com/The_Forgery_of_I_Timothy_3_16.html

I've also covered the first one, with ease: 

Now on to the other stuff,

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ is G?od's Son and is inferior to him. Christ is God. He took on the form of man to come to earth. John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16

 

GOD/THEOS (????) was added into the text in the 16^th century when the original manuscripts (The Septuagint) does not say TEHOS (????) at all, therefore, 1 Timothy 3:16, as re-written in the KJV is seen as both a forgery and a grave error. For the FACTS even shows us that The manuscript evidence, and the immediate context, shows the King James Version (KJV) reading was not authored by Apostle Paul.

As seen on Biblehub, THEOS (????) is nowhere to be found: https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_timothy/3-16.htm 

THEOS (God/????) Greek Strong’s: https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm 

Your next problem is Apostle Paul later revealed the mystery who had manifested, Christ Jesus, of whom CAME FROM GOD who has been REVAELED, according to Paul:

Quoting myself:

Quote

And there is yet more which reveals this verse was corrupted. Paul here is talking about the mystery. In 2 Timothy 1:8-9 he says:

[8] Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospelby the power of God, [9] who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

This is nearly identical to what he says in Romans 16:25:

Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages

 

In Ephesians 1:9-10 he says:

[9] making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ [10] as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Or Ephesians 3:9:

and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,

Or Ephesians 5:32:

This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

Or Ephesians 6:19:

and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel,

Or Colossians 4:3:

At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison—

For, the mystery of the ages is Christ himself revealed to us by God. He tells us in Colossians, "the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27, see 1 Cor. 1:30; 2:7). God's mystery appeared in flesh and Christ is that fleshly manifestation of His mystery.

On to the next one,

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ died on a stake, not a cross. Christ died on a cross. John 20:25, Matthew 27:37, 27

 

Stauros is an upright Pole, with no cross-beams, this upright Pole is also Tree-Like according to evidence by means of the Scriptures and historical Roman information. You can look up the Strong’s here: https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4716.htm 

The irony here is the practice and usage of the Cross came about 400 years AFTER JesusÂ’ death, furthermore, Maryas (The Torment of Maryas) predates Christ Jesus and even he himself was crucified on an upright Pole aka Stauros.

FACT: Since it took approximately 400 years for JesusÂ’s crucifixion to become an acceptable public image, scholars have traditionally believed that this means the cross did not originally function as a symbol for Christians.

The Torment of Maryas:

• https://itsartalicious.wordpress.com/2015/03/12/the-torment-of-marsyas-greek-sculpture/ 
• https://www.louvrebible.org.uk/index.php/louvrebible/default/rewrite/oeuvre-47/The-Torment-of-Marsyas-,-Cross-or-stake? 

I dare you to look at those verses in Greek and you can see for yourself, there is no cross. If you want crosses, I suggest you head over to the Tammuz fan club.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans. Christ life was paid as a ransom for sinners Matthew 9:13, 1 Timothy 1:15

Because that is the truth, Jesus gave his life, in regards to prophecy, to free us from sin and death, giving mankind a chance to actually seek amnesty and be of God’s favor, hence the Life and Resurrection. It gives people a chance to learn who God is and who his Son is, be obedient to what God’s Word says by means of the Scriptures and the like, and those who refuse or those who do not listen to the Word will perish, for there is no middle ground, you are either for life or for death – the choice is for you to make.

Plus the Bible says several times God is incorruptible, and is not like us men or a son of man.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. God will create new heavens and earth and new physical laws. God's people will be removed from earth. Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, 1 Thess. 4:16-17

 

New Heavens and New Earth is symbolic. As for the Earth, as in New Earth, if you actually read the references, it is in regards to all human authority being replaced by GodÂ’s authority under his Kingdom, of which he places Jesus in charge of (remember ZechariahÂ’s vision), furthermore, Psalms 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:4 makes it abundantly clear to us of the Earth itself.

You can put dirt and grim on a diamond and get rid of the dirt and grim with water, the diamond is still there and is not destroyed by water.

For you to think the earth itself will be literally replaced with a New Earth, when GodÂ’s promise says otherwise only shows you no nothing of the Bible, but if you want to accept the idea of literal New Earths, I am sure the Comic Book stores are happy to help your fill for any of the latest DC or Marvel Comics of New Earths literally replacing an actual Earth.

Have some sense.

None of those verses you point to state people will be moved to a New Earth, Truly, Truly, I say on to you, of you, the idiocy within you shows.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The human soul ceases to exist at death The spirit of man goes to be with God *Ecclesiastes 3:21, Ecclesiastes 12:7

 

Humans are not Spirits nor is an Afterlife. This belief stems from Immortal Soul Doctrine and the practices of Sorcery and other things, Spiritism to the extreme.

When a man dies, he dies, and he remains in Hades until the Resurrection. We already see examples of this before in the Bible. The Soul is the Life and or the person, so when the lights go out, it stays out and goes nowhere.

We see nowhere in the Bible that anyone experienced some afterlife situation at all in the Bible, we can talk about Lazarus or the little Girl, the both of them never spoke of being somewhere while dead, for in death, when you die, you die, thus everything with you perishes for good, only until the Resurrection, such ones, powerless by the earth, according to Isaiah, will return to Life again.

You also show yourself to not believe and or understand what The Life and Resurrection even means or when Judgement will take place.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Hell is mankind's common grave. Before Christ, all went to Hades, after Christ only non-believers *Psalms 9:17, Matthew 23:33

 

Because Hell is not the Lake of Fire, nor is it a place of enteral torment. For if Hell was truly the Lake of Fire, why must The Lake of Fire be cast into the Lake of Fire as seen in Revelations 20:14? Or perhaps is King David, a man of God, he himself in a fiery torment, for after all he made his bed in Hell (Psalms 139:8), or maybe all persons who have died was in Hell alongside David, for Lazarus and the Little Girl didn’t come back to life shaken in fear for a place of which God watches eternally as people burn over and over again. This doctrine you follow is the very reason why people think God is not a God of Love, furthermore, God himself, in the Old Testament, The Torah even says the following about Fire Torment: I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind— (mind you, God said this not once, but a few times when it comes to fire torment).

If you get the giddies from people burning forever and ever, you seriously need help, perhaps seek out your nearest Psychologist, for it is persons like you who turn people away from the Bible with the silly doctrine of fire torment.

That being said, when we die, we all go to Hades, be it Sheol or Hell, whatever floats your boat and holds your fishnets.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God. All people who confess Christ as Lord and Savior are born again *John 3:3, John 3:3-7

There are 2 groups of the New Covenant. Those selected for Priesthood, the other being those having Eternal Life. Regardless, both groups confess the Christ and they confess on to the one who Resurrected the Christ, that being, God YHWH himself, who saves.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christians must give public testimony to Scriptural truth. Christians must give public testimony to the gospel of Jesus Christ Romans 1:16, Romans 15:19, 1 Corinthians 1:17

Yes, and Christians should be very careful not to adhere to and or teach false and accursed teachings, kind of like the one you are professing, which is deemed to be false, we must not forget about your response to Anna a while back which was not only wrong, but shows you barely read the Bible for context, therefore, persons like you can easily mislead a person and or masses of persons easily.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The greatest name is Jehovah. The greatest name is Jesus Christ Ephesians 1:20-22, Philippians 2:9

 

Ephesians 1:20-22 speaks of The Christ being at the right hand of God, while Philippians 2:9 speaks of Jesus not taking plunder to be equal to God. God’s name YHWH (Yahweh/Jehovah) is a great name as is spoken of to be The Personal and Divine Name, the Proper name of the God of Israel: https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm | https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=esv&strongs=h3068 

Another factor is Jesus’ name [Jesus] means Yahweh/Jehovah is Salvation (Yah/Jah saves for short), evidence of the Strong’s even shows us too: https://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm   | https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=esv&strongs=g2424

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Man does not have a spirit. Man has a spirit *Ecclesiastes 3:21

 

Psalms 146:3, 4, Ecclesiastes 3:19, Ecclesiastes 9:10 says otherwise, even Jesus in John 3:13:

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

So much for calling yourself “Jesus Defender” if you do not even accept what Jesus himself had said.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

We are to worship Jehovah only. We are to worship Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:13

 

Religious Worship and /Servitude is to God and only God himself, for even Jesus said this when being tempted by Satan. Yes, these verses have the word worship in it, but never do we see anyone religious worship the Christ over God himself. But it is no surprise that someone such as yourself would confuse the word worship to think it is religious worship. May I ask, when Lot worshipped the Angels, or when Sarah worshiped Abraham, why keep quite on such things?

Look up the word worship and do not be a fool hen it comes to the actually meaning, usage and unique usages: https://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm 

I even spoke of such before:

 

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus second coming occurred invisibly in 1914 and His kingdom was established in heaven. Jesus will return physically to earth and all alive will see Him as His kingdom is established on earth Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7

None of this verse speak of a physical presence. The only thing of which we can see is the signs of the times and when Jesus does return he cannot and will not be seen.

The only thing that took place a while back was Satan had been cast out of Heaven, and Jesus became a King.

The verse even tells you “The Sign of the Son of Man”, furthermore, verses like John 14:19 gives one a clue that the return would be invisible.

For if we, as humans, should be able to see Spirits and even Satan himself or perhaps go into space and see GodÂ’s angels, but this is not the case, the same can be said of the Christ. We should be focused on the Signs as well as the Signs of the Son of Man himself.

For the Christ was resurrected as a spirit person (1 Peter 3:18). He soon went to heaven and sat at GodÂ’s right hand (Psalm 110:1). Later on, he, Jesus, was brought before God, The Ancient of Days, who granted Jesus authority and power to rule over mankind. Therefore, when Jesus returns, he does not come back as a human for such a time had already passed, but rather, The King would come back invisible (Daniel 7:13, 14).

He wonÂ’t be alone either, his angels of whom he will lead will be with him. He will destroy wicked people but grant eternal life to those who accept him as King, read for context Matthew 25:31-33, 46.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The greatest name is Jehovah. The greatest name is Jesus Christ Ephesians 1:20-22, Philippians 2:9

Copy and Paste, Copy and Paste, as I told you before, you like to Copy and Paste. Your silly ignorant exegesis has already been dealt with, Deserter.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ is Michael the Archangel. Christ is not an angel, but God. Hebrews 1:13

And yet Paul calls Jesus an Angel in Galatians 4:14. Jesus is also spoken of not as a Prophet, but a Messenger (Angel) of whom as sent by God and is called the Word for speaking GodÂ’s Word (Shaliah Principle). Jesus being Michael is not a new idea, in fact, this belief was present around the early Second Century and so forth.

After all only one person cast Satan the Devil and his Demons out of Heaven and only one person warned the demons of their incoming sentence of Eternal Destruction, for the warning and the battle in Heaven cannot occur twice, for such events only happened once.Think really hard about that and do the research.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ was first of God's creations. Christ is co-eternal with God, and as such was not created Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, Hebrews 13:8?

Isaiah 9:6 is of Jewish customs, naming a child or place in representation of whom they represent, therefore, Jesus is not God, but is spoken of to be of God. Read up on Jewish Customs and Laws and learn something.

John 1:1 does not prove anything either when the cross-references points to verses like Deuteronomy 18:18, and another reference telling you who was indeed the first of GodÂ’s creations and who was the one to be The Firstborn out of Death, there is only one person associated with such, and that is Jesus.

Hebrews 13:8 does not prove anything at all, just tells you Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. If Jesus says his only God is the Father, even going as far as to commit Shema, surely Jesus has not changed on this very fact mentioned.

 Unless you want to explain to the class of how someone who is "co-eternal" is called Firstborn out of the Dead and The First of the Fruits, these 2 things Trinitarians like yourself cannot answer and or speak of because it goes against your own Doctrine when the Bible speaks of such, perhaps you are among those who sees Paul as a lair, for Paul's comment about Jesus being like that of an Angel was easily avoided by you.

Consider yourself burned and rinsed because you made a fool of yourself, once again, you make both a clown and a mine look far more superior at this point.

That being said, this is simply Original Christian beliefs vs that of a Trinitarian puppy who does not really no much about his Bible. - that puppy being you. Therefore it can be said, Ye knoweth nothing of the Scriptures.

@TrueTomHarley He, Mr. Sostar (not to be confused with the Japanese character by a similar name) is heavily misguided to the point he will use vague and or his own opinions and interpretations to make a point, some of which he has no proof of and or valid information, and at times even the Bible itself defeats his own words, and to this day his December 2017 claim will forever be immortalized on this forum prior to him sweeping his claims under the rug or him trying to use a Registry and Census as proof of owning a business, the irony here it is nothing to do with information from sources that is murky, the information he posed was of his own design. Other than that he reminds me of the Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland, but far more cryptic, flawed and giggles spontaneously. One thing for certain, when proven wrong, the giggles stop in a following response, therefore, he is running on E when it comes to giggles at that point.

That being said, it is the time of year again, and we know how these things are. If I am not mistaken this group has reached a high number before for these assemblies, this includes all languages, for even their other services they hit the 20,175,477 mark.

The only concern is Gangstalking being a possibility, who target people of race, sex, nationality, color, religion, faith, background or even perhaps the state they live in, or perhaps the color of their eyes even or the way they dress/groom, etc. so it would not be a surprise if such ones somehow enter into or end up near these assemblies this faith group, so vigilance is key in such situations as well as awareness.

22 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I thought Jehovah's Witness Assembly Halls were where they were assembled, from parts!

Assembly can mean many things, in this case, it is a group of people gathered together in one place for a common purpose and or the action of gathering together as a group for a common purpose. Pretty much a place where a great multitude of people gather for the same thing, turning Bible pages in unison I suppose.

In this sense, it can be applied to a large warehouse or work environment, example, Toyota or Honda manufacturing areas where workers assemble together for the same type of work function. Or it can be applied to a group.

22 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

TTH:

I concede that you can worry the horns off of a Billy Goat .... so as a concession to your admirable persistence ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile a suspicious police officer is looking for John Connor.

 

 

16 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Wikipedia is Trump's Fault !!

... or Bushes.

Not really, however the funny thing about Wikipedia, it is said anyone can edit the information, or so I've heard. It is also a breeding ground for trolls.

23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What is the source of this quote? I like it, and may use it myself elsewhere.

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorationism) and (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorationism#Jehovah's_Witnesses), but if we are to get into the realm of detail:

• Anthony L. Dunnavant, The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement: Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Christian Churches/Churches of Christ, Churches of Christ, Wm. B. Eerdmans (2004) which has an entry on Restoration.

 

• Gerard Mannion and Lewis S. Mudge, The Routledge companion to the Christian church, Routledge (2008) p.634.

• Encyclopedia of Religion in the South, p.665, Samuel S. Hill, Charles H. Lippy, Charles Reagan Wilson (2005) "An Anabaptist, Servetus believed what has always been basic to restorationism: ... the true, apostolic church .... Restorationists in the South include three churches of the STONE-CAMPBELL TRADITION."

Although the Wikipedia says what it says, the information is pulled from what is mentioned above.

• Most of the JW sources on that page ordinates from the Watchtower, as well as the Bible Students information, for instance, Militarism and Navalism - How Long?" by Charles Taze Russell, Watch Tower (January 1, 1916) page 5.

There are more references also in this regard.

• The Apostolic Early Church points back to everything and anything regarding the Apostolic Age - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Age

of which the actual sources can be found in the references.

12 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

..... I have been called many things ... but never before a "stone".

.... usually a "blockhead". 

... I usually respond well when called to dinner.

• 1 Peter 2:5 - you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

References: Ephesians 2:2,1 Hebrews 13:15, Romans 12:1

As for stones, it is figurative, but one can only imagine if man were stones (stone-men), swimming in water would be the last thing on your mind.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Regardless of where you are, you are a stone (A Living Stone according to the Bible) of the house, thus any contribution of service to the Spiritual House helps the whole church thrive, mainly when it comes to maintaining the teachings of the Bible and the practices and applications made by the Early Church.

For we are all part of Her, The Church, and our roles in the Church help us as a whole - for the Church is not merely a place of worship, but it is a community of people of the same faith and do what is needed to seek actually truth and if they have the truth they maintain it.

On 8/24/2018 at 11:14 PM, Witness said:

No, no, no.  ItÂ’s not “New Age”, but “new wine” in “new wineskins”.

Not "New Age" you say? Did you not just say the following?

On 8/20/2018 at 1:07 PM, Witness said:

I have never directed my attention to the earthly Jerusalem.  The Bride is the new creation of heavenly Jerusalem.  They are both human and “angel”.    

Humans and Angels are both separate Creations, they are not the same and or equal to each other (that is like saying an animal is both dog and fish), furthermore, as I told the Trinitarian, Humans are NOT Spirits nor do said human transferred elsewhere upon death. In the case of the ones chosen for Priesthood, they will have new bodies, they do not become human and angel hybrids or disembodied souls that roam the Heavens, the only people who believe such things are New Age Christians, of which I had dealt with for half a decade even in person, as is with others. To make matters worse, they have a connection to the ones of Babylon, L.T. of whom had made it their conquest to change Christianity since the 1920s by means of their Spiritual Mother and their connection to Helena Blavatsky and Carl Jung, furthermore, New Agers not only believe in human angel hybrids, they also believe that they can and or professed the ability to communicate with angels, demons, and spirits.

So when you speak of those of Priesthood,

• [1] Do not mix verses to speak of what you just uttered, which is the things of New Age ideologies, and

 

• [2] You should know by now that such ones do not become like human and angel, as you claim, the Bible even tells you, clearly, that those destined for Priesthood will have New Spiritual Bodies, for these people are totally separate from Angels, nothing you have can show anyone that such ones become both human and angel when the reality and the very facts even tells you - even the title and the outline in the Bible itself tells you this, the ones destined from Priesthood will have Spiritual Bodies, never is it stated they are like the angels or become hybrids, similar to them when the Bible tells you the distinction.

Therefore, what you have said is of New Age ideology, everyone knows who the New Age Christians are among mainstream denominations, it is not unknown to anyone of who they are, their practices, does it follow the church or not and or other, and we know them very, very well becomes the biggest heresy of their Christology is having the ability and or belief of communicating with angels, demons, and spirits, for they too believe in the heresy that is the Afterlife, for they too believe that those among them become both human and angel, and so forth.

It is a shame you do not see that for yourself, even going as far as to mix Bible verses together that do not even match up, one of which even defeats your own claim – if you are to teach, you can end up as those who mislead, at least do the study and research and understand the Bible to not be in the position that you are in now and actually understand not just who the anointed are among men and women, but what will become of them afterwards, to say human and angel is not only disturbing, but shows how you are not as strong in this domain a you think, so further research is needed, on your part.

Because you keep missing it the first time, re-read your verses before you make such a response, again, the verses you mixed together can easily be read and one can see of what such verses actually points to

As for the verses in question:

On 8/20/2018 at 1:07 PM, Witness said:

 1 Pet 1:23; 2 Cor 5:27;1 Cor 15:44; Heb 8:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Ezek 41:18,19   

The older response (better to just go to the link itself) :

Quote

Again, already known, this verse, 2 Corinthians 5:17 also connects with Galatians 6:15, which in itself, points straight to Ephsians 2:10 regarding the New Creation, for those who are one in Christ are part of what the Temple brings forth, the New Heavens and Earth, as all cross-references point to if read for context, hence why it is spoken of as Jesus being the Beginning and End (Into the New Covenant) in regards to the New Creation, at times in parallel to Melchizedek to some scholars.

And like I said no, humans are not like angels and or become human/angel hybrid of any form for they are TWO different creations, therefore it is silly to spout the talk of New Age nonsense, now for Humans, the Bible speaks of them taking a Spiritual Body, or as the Biblical Title and Outline states, A New Body.

1 Corinthians 3:16 would not make sense to use here because it speaks of us being of God’s Temple and like what was stated in Ephesians, God dwells in us just as he dwells in the Christ, nothing pertaining to being both human and angel hybrids.

Therefore, read the actual references for this verse for context before making such a response: Romans 6:16, 8:9, 1 Corinthians 3:9, 17, 6:19, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:21, 22, 1 Timothy 3:15 and Hebrews 3:6.

If anything at minimum, at least take the very words of Peter and follow the references through for context, furthermore, being in union with Christ and or anything pertaining to the Spiritual House, especially the people, those of Priesthood and those who will gain Eternal Life, as stated to you before, should be very obvious.

Ezekiel 41:18-19 makes no mention of a man becoming an angel and or any type of human/angel hybrids. Another factor here is the very cross-references of this verse (1 Kings 6:29, 7:36, 2 Chronicles 3:7), makes no connection and or match-up with what you have stated, at least be a Witness to what the Bible says rather than going about your own understanding or the ideologies of the New Aged Ones.

[18] It was carved of cherubim and palm trees, a palm tree between cherub and cherub. Every cherub had two faces: [19] a human face toward the palm tree on the one side, and the face of a young lion toward the palm tree on the other side. They were carved on the whole temple all around.

So it can be asked, what did you try to prove here by making mention of this verse? Unless you do not understand what these verses been and it's context? Anyone who is honest can read, research, identify and understand of what this very conveys, simply in an obvious connection to the Temple, as seen in Prophet Ezekiel's Vision: The Inner Temple, or as read in the outlines, The Interior of the Sanctuary.

1 Corinthians 15:44 speaks of Spiritual Bodies

[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Be it of the any spiritual means  or that of the earth, a person, be it, regardless of their sex, have a body, for all persons. Once again to become a whole person, one who has died being raised up, having a body, hence the verse in question. We are humans, not angels, and angels are not humans, nor can there be of and or spoken of any hybrids of any form for we are separate creations.

Going on to 2 Corinthians 5, well in short, does not make up with what you have said

Therefore, you have to be very careful with verses and passages, otherwise, like I said, you'll trip over yourself - for this isn't the first time you have done this.

I recommend Biblehub (https://biblehub.com/) if you are truly having issues with context and references.

Now,  Wineskins are skin like bottle made of the complete hides of domestic animal, for instance, goats or perhaps sheep, and it is used for holding wine, in some other occasions, water and or some other liquid. Wine was put into new wineskins, and the reason for this is because as it ferments, it begins to generate carbon dioxide gas that results into pressure on the skin bottles. New skins expand; old, inflexible ones burst under the pressure, we can see the usage in verses such as the one you have mentioned (Matthew 9:17), as well as Joshua 9:4. Wineskins can be stretched out due to their elasticity, but over time it can lose it. In Biblical Times it is also used, for wine of course, as seen in 1 Samuels 16:20. Wineskins can also lose its durability over time, hence the loss of elasticity.

I know this because at the age of 9, we, my people, used domesticated goats for wineskins, other times, to carry other forms of liquid such as water and or in some cases, milk. We had the skins in house and we were able to craft the Bottle with the necessary tools needed to do so, something of which is still being done today since there are literally goats everyone on that island, the hills, the roads, near the beaches.

On 8/24/2018 at 11:14 PM, Witness said:

As long as your “skin” hold onto bits and pieces of the old law covenant; such as anointed women unable to be leaders, what will happen?

And yet the this one who says that what Paul says was that of an opinion when what he had spoken of was actually creation in regards to the mention of Adam and Eve, when addressing the church, as well as addressing the family – the Holy Spirit does not enable an Apostle to give opinions mainly in regards to where you make mention of such regarding Paul, it enables him to speak of what God’s Word is all about, hence all that is said must be taken into full respects, not picking and choosing favorites and adding to the Word. Then again, you did say he had the Holy Spirit, and before that you make it seem as though Paul didn't mean what he had said regarding a specific verse.

My “skin” is only holding on to everything and everything in relation to the bible, and everything that comes from the Bible is truth, a truth you seem to not believe when the very facts are as clear as the sky against you and holds more water than what you and Srecko in say in combination, revealing the both of you yielding upon, as I said before, man’s understanding of the Bible rather than of God and or any of his followers, even his Son, a very long time ago.

What do you think, Witness? Name one anointed woman of the Priesthood, in the Bible (Greek New Testament), who has led and or taken up authority/or of religious office of a or perhaps ANY of the early church(es) when she, who is anointed/chosen is very, very well aware, Holy as can be, of GodÂ’s Purpose, GodÂ’s Will, GodÂ’s Grace, GodÂ’s Justice, GodÂ’s Promise and GodÂ’s Order? (Do not make a dubious claim as Srecko did, for you tend to agree with him, not knowing of what he said of Abraham which is in connection with the Promised Seed, hence Galatians even as far to say the following below) :

On 8/11/2018 at 3:36 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Chloe is woman, sister of the Corinth congregation, obviously in position of leading the church. And she has important contacts with Paul and with handling things in cong. 

Just opinion, as always :)) Nothing that must be established by the Law of the Media and Persia.

You agree with the very man who seems to be a yes-man to you and you to him?

He makes this as a strong statement coupled with opinion that hold no water whatsoever, just as his confusion with Deborah and Barak, and his mention of Jael when months ago he was against Jael's actions and her being seen as a hero, therefore, he is spinning his wheels here, as we can see Srecko trying to allude to the church by using a judge and a native who had a common enemy, when we see for ourselves nothing about churches is seen in this passage, even Srecko's own information defeats his own claims, therefore, I agree with Gone Away, Srecko, many times mentions can and or seen as flawed, as well as cryptic.

The truth of the matter, a truth that is being professes to the both of you is that the Bible makes mention of her one time and were actions was that of a peacemaker and not a church leader, nor did Chloe/and or House of Chloe lead the Church of Corinth, the Bible makes no mention of what Srecko is saying.

And Srecko has been corrected not too long ago alongside a few other points (mind the typos, since before you like to use such against me only for such to backfire in the end) :

Quote

No, Chloe is not a religious leader in Corinth, the fact you even said that makes shows that what you just said is hypocrisy, an actual lie for that matter that is perhaps greater than your other ones, granted the very weight of the evidence is as big as the Sun compared to your claim that is very disturbing. No one has ever in their lifetime and or practice would even consider such of what you have address just now and that my friend, is sickening and a showy remark of someone who clearly does not understand his Bible.

To be very brief, Chloe was living among her household and had only contacted Paul via letter to inform him of what the Church of Corinth is doing, again, chaos, if it got a woman such as her to write, than you'd realize the problem, and it points to your contradiction, Sostar. We later find out that Paul discovers and goes about his way to handle the situation with success. Because Chloe and her household were vigilante and aware of the division and practices of that church and taking action, she was indeed a peace maker, granted in biblical historic accounts, she is known as a peace keeper just for this action alone to which she was only addressed once. Like I told you before, there are many women in the Bible who are indeed heroes.

Chloe is a woman through a household of which Apostle Paul received reports concerning the issues existing in the church of the Corinthians, hence the only verse of which the House of Chloe was even mentioned 1 Corinthians 1:11. Although Apostle Paul’s Epistle does not state, anywhere, that Chloe was a Christian living in Corinth or Ephesus, moreover, in view of the Apostle’s reference to this household by name (The House of Chloe), evidently at least some members of the home, either family members or slaves, were Christians known to the Corinthians.

Paul soon addresses quarreling within the church of the Corinthians and was enabled to do so due to Chloe’s people, her household, who had reported those quarrels to Paul. These reports were not rumors and or of gossip either, they were an attempt to get Paul’s help in resolving a problem within the church, hence the discovery by Paul of what was taking place. The source of the quarrel is revealed to be the people were divided as well as their issue with who should be in Pastoral Office. We can see the division when it is said by some that they:

• I follow Paul
• I follow Peter (or Cephas)
• I follow Apollos
• I follow Christ

Therefore, the Corinthians were segmenting themselves unnecessarily and wrongfully. We soon find out Apostle Paul's discovery led to a response, reminding them that Christ is not divided and that Jesus’ is the name under which all believers are saved and baptized, check out 1 Corinthians 1:12-16. He adds that the Christ had appointed him, Paul, to preach the good news of the gospel, but not with wisdom and eloquence, for the Christ be made powerless and or useless, empty of power.

In response to the concerns of Chloe’s household, Apostle Paul states that the Christ is the one who saves and that the power of the gospel is His power, see Romans 1:16. For Apostle Paul, Simon Peter, and Apollos were all preaching Christ’s message of the gospel. The believers should always follow Christ as the Shepherd, rather following men, whose eloquent words often create competition with one another and or those who clearly are not in application of Christ's message. Quarreling should not be among us who are baptized whom or what preacher is more gifted. Wisdom of a man is not the point of the gospel, but rather, the Christ’s work is what saves, is what redeems us, the people.

Chloe her household were aware enough to look and see for themselves the division occurring in the church. The actions of the Corinthians in their church, to put men who do not apply the teachings to be elevated above God and so they wrote to Apostle Paul asking for his help in order to resolve this matter. In seeking the assistance of the proper authority in the church (in their case, an Apostle, who just happens to be Paul).

That being said, Chloe was never a religious leader of any church, so do not make such a broken claim among claims. Chloe and her household were peacemakers, take a good look at Matthew 5:9 and understand what that means.

You clearly do not understand anything that was said and even show it, there is no issue with anointed women of the Priesthood or Being One with Christ, the only problem here is you making a strong and yet failing claim that women can be church leaders, I even asked both you and Srecko to show me a church found in the Old Testament, what the both of you have done was use Deborah, a Prophetess, a Judge of Israel as an example when we see that she was no head of the church (but Srecko took it a step further to put the title of Barak on to Deborah when we can see through the Bible and history of who Barak is and what his title actually is), the church didnÂ’t even come into play until very later on, as seen in the New Testament - in the days of the Christ and beyond.

The practice of women leadership in the church was unfounded until centuries upon centuries later, something of which you and Srecko (the very person who makes claim Chloe was a church leader of Corinth; the very man you show total agreement with; the very man who sees Abraham as a selfish man yet he, Sostar having the audacity to quote Galatians 3 afterwards) fail to see because the both of you lack in not just the history of the Bible, as this was seen before, but the history of the church.

We see Paul’s own words him referencing Creation (even advanced bible readers can point this out to you) and all the Biblical Facts stated before are unshakable, just as God’s Order, but in regards to God himself, his Order cannot be changed and or broken, as according to Apostle Paul, anyone to practices something else, let him be accursed.

There is nothing in the Law that speak of women, any woman being a religious leader of authority within a church so why alluded to Law Covenant what you are trying to point to is unfounded? Granted we do not see anything regarding churches in the Old Testament. If you feel so bold about such, state it here, I can assure you that nothing of Paul and the Church shows women leadership of the church, they are shown to be ministers and teachers, having such roles to contribute to the works, but none of them led a church (but surely you may agree with Srecko when he himself cannot find any information and yields upon his own feelings and opinions), we also take into account the very students of the Apostles and later on, the Church Fathers, again, we do not see any woman leading a church, and the only reason we see such today is people went upon their opinions and feelings if a man can do something a woman can do it too, thus enabling something that was never in practice to begin with.

The only reason you believe the church can be lead by women as well is based on what others who study the Bible had said, it is because of the change of the times, and ones emotional opinion, or the mentality that men/women can do anything even when it comes to changes and addition to the Church, hence the adding of Traditions of Men into the Churches when the Bible speaks against it. You are in the clear to shed your emotion on such a matter, but trying to preach an accursed teaching as such only will put you in a spot to be corrected and if you had actually studied the Bible for once, you even see that for yourself.

The Bible, is it truth, but if it is not found in the Bible, you only show yourself to be one who is mislead, and yet when one speaks truth, you refuse it, therefore, you can be categorized as a mainstream Christians, if you yourself even cannot see that and with what you said before, you lean upon the teachings of the New Aged Ones, who are not too far off from today's common Trinitarian or Spiritualist.

I also pointed out even True Christian women can see that it is not their place to lead a church, as I said to either you or someone else, I came back from Africa, African Christians, even the ones I met in Asia, who know their Bible even understands the roles of both a man and a woman in the church, no one is better than the other, but together they help build themselves up as part of the Spiritual House, despite the roles being entirely different.

Read your Bible, do not make the call that Paul was stating an opinion when He, an Apostle, having the Holy Spirit being poured on to him, to wrote the church, visited the church, was in the ministry and preached the gospel, and was a slave to the Christ, as well as doing everything in his power to serve the God of the Christ. Everything he had said, it has to be applied into context and only then, you will see truth, of which you refuse to believe based on your emotional driven exegesis.

As for what will happen, Paul spoke of the accursed, and anyone who professes to the accursed and or teaches something entirely different from the truth, will be judged, and if guilty, will perish.

There is no middle ground here, you are either for God and continue to seek and or have the truth means life, the other option is if one seek God wrongly, teach something entirely different, this individual will be met with death, the bible makes it very clear, you can read this for yourself and clearly see there is no middle ground. You either dine with Jesus and break bread with him, learn of Jesus’ God and Father, or, on the other side of the spectrum, you go play cards with the Devil who deals the cards and be mislead out of what the Bible actually says – your call.

If I were you, I suggest Religious History and Theological Studies, for if you didn't know about the New Age stuff and their Christology, it would now be a good time to understand what such ones and or others profess so you yourself to not dwell upon your own confusion, because even a novice among Theologian can see this and will make a response to you.

On 8/24/2018 at 11:14 PM, Witness said:

“the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”  Matt 9:17

Truth is love and at times people cannot handle the truth, and the truth is, women cannot be church leaders and or having authority within a church and or position of office in a church, regardless if a woman is anointed or not. Women can teach as ministers and the like, but never take up a role of church authority, of which reconciles with GodÂ’s Order, hence why Paul makes mention to Creation, even that of Adam and Eve.

Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.

Also know the difference between the Law Covenant (of which Paul uses Hagar as symbolism) and the New Covenant (of which Paul uses Sarah as symbolism)

• The mediator of the Law Covenant is Moses, for the Israelites feared talking to God and Moses was tasked to speak with God hence becoming the First Mediator in the Old Testament (Exodus 20:19), we also know that Apostle Paul spoke of the Laws of mediation as seen in Galatians 3:19. The Mediator of the New Covenant is Jesus, as seen in the New Testament, and Jesus is addressed as the mediator of God by Apostle Paul (1 Timothy 2:5, also see Hebrews 9:15, 12:24).

 

• The parties involved, For The Law Covenant it was between God the Father and Natural Israel, but in the New Covenant it is between God the Father and Spiritual Israel.

• The Law Covenant made use of Animal Sacrifices; however the New Covenant, Jesus sacrificed himself for mankind, in turn, upon death, enabled the New Covenant immediately.

• The Law Covenant made use of written on stones tablets, while the New Covenant, the Law is written in our hearts, or the heart of men [humans/mankind].

• For God had foretold that the Law Covenant would be overwritten by a New Covenant with benefits that are everlasting, and True Christians are under the New Covenant and know that the New Covenant consist of both Priesthood and heirs, both of whom, are bounded by it.

Therefore, one can understand what it means To be One in/In Union with the Christ, as well as having him and his God dwell in the individual, deemed a True Christian, be it man or woman, black or white, etc. they are of Abraham's Seed and of the Spiritual House. Regardless, we do not see anywhere that the New Covenant changes God's Order regarding The Church, or the Family.

On 8/24/2018 at 11:14 PM, Witness said:

“Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

If your neighbor speaks truth and you ignore it, how is it you deem yourself to express something of God's Likeness, that is, love?

While you go dwell on historical Biblical and Church knowledge - if you accept to do so on your own part, understand and research the Biblical Facts because you will need to learn and understand on both the Family and Church structure, do not be like those who have the mentality that a wife can be a husband and a husband can be a wife, or that is not of God's Order, just as those who try to change it up in the Church Structure, therefore, both you and Srecko have only shown yourself to dwell upon an emotional exegesis and opinions of your own, in this sense, understanding of men, in Srecko's case, I tend to be critical of him because he does not realize how much of the information he is twisting, example would be Deborah, he calls her a military leader of some sort, but the Bible says it is Barak.

 

It is their Church Structure, it is similar and or nearly as identical to the Early Church, furthermore, Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, not only do they stick to he Bible, verse for verse, but that of the church itself, be it they have the truth or very close to it, the very reason why Restorationism (Restorationist Christians) be it a group or a sole individual, are known to primarily practice Primitive Christianity.

 

Quote: Restorationism, also described as Christian Primitivism, is the belief that Christianity has been or should be restored along the lines of what is known about the apostolic early church, which restorationists see as the search for a more pure and more ancient form of the religion. Fundamentally, "this vision seeks to correct faults or deficiencies (in the church) by appealing to the primitive church as a normative model.

They are among the list of those who stuck to their Restorationist routes, even to this day:

In the 1870s, a Bible study group led by Charles Taze Russell formed into what was eventually called the Bible Student movement. Russell's congregations did not consider him to be the founder of a new religion, but that he helped in restoring true Christianity from the apostasy that Jesus and the Apostle Paul foretold. They believed that other Churches departed in a Great Apostasy from the original faith on major points, and that the original faith could be restored through a generally literal interpretation of the Bible and a sincere commitment to follow its teachings. They focused on several key doctrinal points that they considered a return to "primitive Christianity", derived from their interpretation of the Bible, including a rejection of trinitarianism, the immortality of the soul, and the definition of Hell as a place of eternal torment; active proselytization; strict neutrality in political affairs; abstinence from warfare; and a belief in the imminent manifestation of the Kingdom of God (or World to Come) on Earth.

Jehovah's Witnesses emerged as a distinct religious organization, maintaining control of Russell's Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other corporations. They continued to develop doctrines that they considered to be an improved restoration of first century Christianity, including increased emphasis on the use of Jehovah as God's personal name.

It would most definitely be a problem if they had left such a root, but this seems not to be the case.

Another thing is women cannot lead churches (the Bible makes it clear on the role women have in the church, never they are mentioned as leaders of authority in the church), anyone who says otherwise clearly is ignoring the church and family structure and nothing of such has EVER originated with the early church, those who practice/defend it are accursed.

23 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I sure hope that someone calls these things to the attention of the Governing Body ... but I fear all that would happen is they would take names, and stack firewood below our feet.

The lawyers and accountants are now running the Society.

... and the Kings "have no clothes".

The thing here is, it won't be the churches people will call into question, no, they wouldn't even gun for the 1 of 3 forms of excommunication used by all denominations when only 1 form is the right one. If we are going to attack expelling and shunning, one has to attack what Jesus had said in Matthew 16:19, of which Jesus himself entrusted the Church to do, beginning with his Apostles.

The verse does say the following:

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Then we can move on to Apostle Paul and what he has said, after all, Paul is a follower of the Christ and is the type of person to honor Jesus' God and Father.

That being said, such things are not easy, and it is tough being cut-off from the church, but it is not impossible to return to it, the same way as being cut-off from the scriptures and returning to it.

 

But you and I both know, I agree with Jesus and I agree with Paul, I do not pick one for the other because these two are of God and serve God.

On 8/25/2018 at 11:45 PM, Noble Berean said:

It's only a matter of time now before the media begins to publicly scrutinize the org's child abuse policies.

Granted that they and other churches have already been confronted and their rules have been dissected in accuracy, it will not be at the scale of the Catholic Church, for not only the Catholic Church is passive, but it has twice as many child abusers left and right, in the hallways and trenches, etc., the very reason why they, among others, are on a very high percentage right now in the US and in the EU.

On 8/15/2018 at 10:48 PM, Alzasior Lutor said:

What is the religion in these countries ?

Well one thing, i some parts of Africa and or the Middle East, if you are a civilian in those parts and utter anything pertaining to the Bible, it can be considered as an offense and you can be beheaded, literally and it can be considered Just, on the other side of the spectrum, the religion and or faith the country promotes, they can preach to you by force.

 

As for religion, Islam is surpassing mainstream Christianity, however Christian minorities remain intact and continue to grow.

As for me I am more focused on religious things in the EU and Asia, since I have good sources on such.

@Jack Ryan No one is being forced, for there are actually a great number of former JWs who are still cool with their JW relatives, they are covered by a thick blanket by former JWs who teach and preach another doctrine, luckily the Vegan spoke in behalf of former JWs who have to deal with disgruntled JWs of the faith.

This goes for all faiths, as well as people of race and or color.

That being said, shunning is indeed Biblical, so is Expelling, like it or not, be it the Takfir, the Herem, and or other, it remains because it is in regards to Binding and Loosening. Church ties are gone, but the Family ties reside.