Space Merchant

@Jack Ryan Fighting for religious freedom has nothing to do with voting. Granted this is Russia, JWs are not only allowed to vote, they are kept away from voters because of suspected influence of neutrality, mainly for the fact that there is a HUGE amount of Russians who are Anti-Kremlin/RoC, which resulted in them being called heroes, for said heroes are targeted, hence the various websites having the pictures and information of people as if they are targets for the hunt should the situation call for it.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. No, Christians who are serious about neutrality are not suppose to be voting, however they can be in defense of Freedom of Religion, which is in conjunction with what the Apostle Paul taught regarding Civil Disobedience and when and where and how it is done by the Christians, in this regard, the Jehovah's Witnesses are in a defense of trying to preserve what they practice and preach, as well as the Bible, for the Kremlin has been cracking down on all Bibles prior to the ban, they say they target JW Bibles, but really you can get can a visit from the police or FSB if you have a Bible in public.

Plus there is also another factor, for JWs in Russia are Anti-Nationalist, not even taking part in war glorification ceremonies and or often targets in institutions and threaten, and prior to the election, Jehovah's Witness crackdowns were in full force, for the Kremlin believed that JWs neutrality would hinder those who are not of the faith to not vote, perhaps not vote for Putin, for this was included in a list of things as to why the ban was issued.

Also I think it is obvious of how Putin won, that end result for the election was clearly rigged, but if you say something, you'll end up like most Kremlin Critics, or perhaps end up like Boris Nemtsov.

So in short, Christians will be in defense of religious Freedom, even if it means Civil Disobedience against a political party, but never will they take sides, granted all sides and spots on those sides are held by the Kremlin and their connections.

Other than that, this is all the Russian Church, the Kremlin and the Duma care about, this video speaks for itself:

This other image is whom was in connection with the Pope to get rid of JWs to begin with:

The master mind:

So even if they had the chance to vote, they get pegged with rocks with the crest of the Kremlin (Coat of arms of Russia) painted on it, figuratively speaking.

For the biggest clue that people missed is the fact a JW family had been awarded, and the only reason Putin was present is because the RoC and the Duma were not there during the ceremony - for a very specific reason.

@Matthew9969 Not really, for if there was a halt to prevent the JWs from influencing neutrality, clearly the Kremlin had put in motion on how to get rid of them, but little did they know Religious Freedom is held to a high regard to the Russians, mainly to those who are outside of and against the RoC. The Kremlin do not even let them preach near any political office that is in regards of voting. Other than that, fighting for religious freedom has nothing to do with voting, if the case involving baker and the 2 homosexual men had taught us anything or that of the two women some days ago.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Revelation speaks of "Jezebel" in a symbolic way.  No discretion is made that this Jezebel-like individual would be a woman.  In fact, this individual could very well likely be a man, or a collection of men.  Revelation's Jezebel obviously teaches/rules over others through seduction.  Rev. 2:20   "She" rules over the anointed house of God.  

I am already aware of the symbolism in majority of Revelations (it is not unknown to anyone the outline for this book is called The Revelation of John, and or The Apocalypse [of John]), I simply made mention of Revelations 2:20-23 for this point that is to be made of anything in regard of Prophetess by means of mention and or occurrences (9-10 in combination with H/G text), specifically the Greek New Testament. Granted it is among the list of biblical text that mentions anything in relation with Prophetesses.

Moreover, the title for each portion in chapter 2 and the outline makes that very obvious:

Titled

• To the Church in Ephesus (1-7)
• To the Church in Smyrna (8-11)
• To the Church in Pergamum (12-17)
• To the Church in Thyatira (18-29)

outlined

• Messages to Ephesus (1-7)
• Messages to Smyrna (8-11)
• Messages to Pergamum (12-17)
• Messages to Thyatira (18-29)

As for what the passage conveys, the Jezebel-like woman (Jezebel Spirit) is in regards of the Church of Thyatira, of whom had claimed to have prophetic powers, but at the same time has taken  the course of ancient false prophetesses and received the condemnation of Christ, Jesus, in his message to Apostle John at Revelations 2:20-23. This one improperly acted as a teacher and misled members of the church into wrong practices and action - again, leads such ones into accursed teachings - as is done by the Jezebel of old.

For this passage in the chapter in question, for this is why you have to take into context the very cross-references that stem from those 5 specific verses, for the basic references total up to 6 verses, extended theological research, the total, max,  is up to 24.

• Jezebel woman points to 1 Kings 16:31 and 2 Kings 9:22
• She teaches and misleads the slaves to commit sexual immorality (porneia) 1 Corinthians 5:11, Galatians 5:19, Ephesians 5:5
• scr: 1 Kings 21:25, 2 Kings 9:7, 22, Ezekiel 13:17, Acts 15:20, 29, 1 Corinthians 10:20
• He will give us each according to our deed for the Churches will know who has dealt with her Revelations 22:12
• scr: Psalms 7:9, 26:2, 139:1, Jeremiah 11:20, 17:10, Matthew. 16:27, Luke 16:15, Acts 1:24, Romans 8:27, Revelations 20:12-13

The Jezebel in of Thyatira is one woman or a group/collection of women, not men specifically in regards to what it is pointing to, but to some degree men and women who are influenced and or effect by means of this woman, this Spirit of Jezebel, with Scriptural evidence makes it very clear of whom this is directed to and why this is and of whom she influences.

This one and or those of this Jezebel Spirit (her Spirit as some would say) encourage and condones immorality and idolatry among and within God’s people, from every nook and carny, from young ones to old within the church. Those in the church have been persuaded, they listened to her, subdued by her, for Jesus speaks as though as if those who take to ear of what she says are like her children, for they are her followers, as we can see and read in Revelations 2:22, 23 and clearly such ones are to be punished. Because of her, her influence spreads like virus to a population who are ill-equipped/unaware [of] for it, for it threatens to make the Church of Thyatira and it's people corrupt, as is done to Israel in the very days of A'hab. She bears high influence the Jezebel of old, pagan princess turned Queen, the wife of A'hab. She is said to have strong personality and the fact that she claimed to be a prophetess gave her quite the seat in the church. The ill practices she brings forth to the people also had some form of role with patron god(s), false gods (tutelary deity).

The teaching of Jezebel in Thyatira is also in relation of that of Ba'laam in Pergamum, see Revelation 2:14. For The Church of Pergamum had to deal with heavy persecution, and only a few were imitating Ba'laam of old in promoting fornication and idolatry, which resulted in people being cursed, and a lot of bloodshed to cleanse said curse, the preserving of young women who were not affected, in addition to anything relating to Ba'laam's practices being destroyed, for the practices were very disgusting. (Also just as a note, passages in relation of Ba'laam such as what took place with the cursed ones leads mainstream Christians to reject Moses entirely. This is because when a question in this regard is pose they find it extremely difficult to answer, mainly in regards to Moses status of a Prophet).

Regardless, that of Ba'laam, and of which we know about the Jezebel woman is ill conduct, corruption and dealers of death, and their words tickle the ears of God's people, and easily pushes some of these people to be followers, of which is the case with the Church of Thyatria, in regards to the Jezebel woman.

For this is existing to this day and onward until the End Times conclude and it involves many leaders of Christendom who imitate Jezebel in tolerating in their churches ill practices such as homosexuality, fornication, unrepentant sin(s), liberalization the church, sick influence and ideas, immorality (even promoting it), adultery, abortion, abandoning and or watering down God's Laws and Bible-based standards, and most importantly, of which is being done today, allowing themselves to be among religious leaders who are on a conquest for peace, for such ones believe with conviction that all persons should for their cause, all persons should be for the EI.I., which is obviously and known by all to be in connection with the Harlot, and other things that is condemned by God. 

Therefore, we should be aware and avoiding these things, it's influence and it's ideas of which are adopted by both men and women, we should be avoiding the Jezebel woman just as we avoid Ba'laam, who is as equally bad as the other one. When we do so, we please our El Shaddai, God, who is our Father.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

"She" is a false prophet/Harlot   Rev 13:11  And one of Babylon the Great's many "daughters".  Rev 17:5  

Granted we are talking about the Jezebel woman who is spoken of as a Prophetess, specifically, it would be very wise to stick to the very references that stem from the verses itself. We already know the Great Harlot herself, but we are talking about those deem as Prophetesses who mislead the churches, regardless, we already know this one is of Babylon, but not the great prostitute herself.

Revelations 13:11 is in regards to The Beast out of The Sea and The Earth, we already know Babylon's connection with the Beast.

Revelations 17:5 the Jezebel Woman is of Babylon the Great, she is not Babylon the Great, in as much the same way as Ba'laam is of Babylon the Great.

We can talk about Babylon the Great, but again, the focus here is about Prophetess mentioned, which includes the Jezebel Woman (Jezebel Spirit) and religious leaders.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Men and women, who are to be found at Christ's return, "virgins".  

Perhaps dwell on something that is not already known, for this I am fully aware, ponce again, for if it was the the case to profess such I would not have stated anything alluding to that previously.

Regardless of men and or women prior to Christ's return, gender is irrelevant here, as is said before, granted if you take in all seriousness of what Apostle Paul had said to the churches by means of his Epistles, especially in regards to the Galatians or that of the church structure itself - religious leadership and authority within the church.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Just another example showing that there is no discretion in God's eyes as to whom, in the anointed Body of Christ, can teach.  It is not based on one's sex.

And yet the structure of the church and family is very clear on who is in position of religious leadership in the church itself. You've yet to show anything in regards of women church leaders when it is already known of what a Prophetess is, women who teach and or minister despite not being able to and or allowed to be religious leaders as seen by the evidence and the like.

So it is clear you are not really aware of how God by means of his Son have the church set up, dare I ask are you aware of what abilities the church leaders also possess?

Also you still have not mention Mary in depth, as you did list her as a Prophetess when we see she met one. And we have yet to see the biblical basis of the church leadership being assumed, in role and office, by a woman/women. You make it seem as though being a minister, teacher and or prophetess is a qualification to be a religious leader of authority when the reality is, how the church is, is enough evidence against you at this point, the most critical thing, real genuine Christian women knows what I have made mention and are in agreement, for they know how the church is structure and very clearly can see this by mans of the Bible itself, therefore, in regards to leadership in the church, women having authority of that of men of authority - is unfounded, and it is deemed an accursed teaching and or practice when the weight of the evidence is like that of a stone that you yourself cannot lift.

The same goes for those that take issue with women and head coverings who do so in respects to biblical standards and God's Laws.

So which is it then?

• They hide evidence to a case of abuse?

or

• They destroy evidence to a case of abuse?

or

• Fail to reproduce evidence to a case of abuse?

You can't have a Charmander, and a Bulbasaur or a Squirtle at the same time, you can only pick one to go with. A silly analogy, yes, but I find it relatable to the matter of focused choice. Other then that, more information for this story will be brought forth and with said information we can gather the detail and evidence. But is reminds me of the time the same people made others believe JWs go house to house to write and or draw the Watchtower logo on private property, saying the WT knows all, as if to make them see as crazy persons. As of late, a bit busy with a debate regarding extremist of Islam.

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

777 crew?

It is a group of people who are independent from Russian media and tends to find out the truth in regards to things taking place in Russia. Odd name, but that is what they go by, perhaps in an effort to evade the FSB from coming through the roof, doors and or floor boards to apprehend them. Just like their other counterpart, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, who also focuses on Russia, seek the actual information vs. that of which is brought forth by Russian's obviously controlled media to which most US and EU people are clearly not aware of. In the case of Christians outside of the Russian Orthodox Church, a lot of falsehood is being spoken of such ones. As for JWs, the RoC sees them as a competitor, granted their size is very small in Russia, the RoC is red hot mad to the point they were involved in the Russian ban prior to Spiritual Enlightenment from the ice of the earth and words from the Vatican's Pope.

This crew still operates today an they are among my sources of which I even found out about the FSB websites. You can only find this group, as with any group connected to them if you dwell on information solely in the EU and Russia, in their language, technically like using a key to open up a door, that key being the very language these people speak, Russian, and dwelling on information that could be found by means of that key.

They other than JWs, an the actions of the RoC, they have a focus on the State Duma, the Kremlin and a list of other things, such as the whole Alexei Navalny situation months ago, as well as the mass protest and arrest in Russia and the forceful take down of Russian civilian Soviet Era homes.

As we speak, the Russian's Duma, has been working to block such ones from speaking truth, the very reason the Duma Laws were created to crackdown on independent media who are actually saying something.

Meanwhile, you have the public around the globe being duped by nearly 80% of Russian affiliated media, for instance, RT News, for some of their segments is downright propaganda and or false information, which prompts truth seekers to look for the actual truth of a story, for example, anything in relations to news about Syria, as seen several months ago.

7 hours ago, Witness said:

I must ask, did you read the article written by Pearl?  You offer no scriptures as a rebuttal, while the article is chocked full of them supporting the role of women as teachers and prophets.

I have read it, simply putting it out there that women are in no position to be church leaders and or having a pastoral-like position over that of men, for, the church’s structure is ever so evident and clear, even in relation to the structure of the family and or that of Adam and Eve, as to what is said and this cannot be changed regardless of how one tries to make the attempt, you cannot tweak and o change what has been set in motion and or entrusted which is in strong connection with God's Purpose and Will. Women can be ministers, teachers and prophets (prophetesses), but never has women in the church’s history from biblical times to the days of the early church and The Didache had a woman been a religious leader of authority over men, like I said, a position held by only men of authority and women are restricted to ministers and teachers, prophetess roles, as well as those who have the gifts.

This isn’t a matter of men vs. women as some people over the years make it seem to be, for this has been debated for years, and the truth itself speaks, we should be in no position to make a change of what is written.

I figured this point be made because rarely does anyone speak of the church’s actual structure and there are those quick to claim that if women are and can be ministers and prophets to teach and or prophesied, they make it seems as though they have authority to lead the church and some even make excuses and rather weak arguments, which is incorrect in many cases, granted if one reads the Bible and understands the structure from man to woman, to the family to the church correctly. Only then you will see why women cannot and will not hold a position of a authority and True Christian women will even tell you this for they know what the Bible says and these women are the very ones who will refute mainstream Christian women who do not put what is said in the Bible 100% - again, a clear distinction between a True Christian and a mainstream Christian.

7 hours ago, Witness said:

Eph 2:20-22

I am aware of what a prophetess is, a position held by women, if I was not aware why would have I had mention these women such as Miriam, Deborah, Anna? Perhaps the others I spoke of months ago in relation to remarks made regarding the early church itself?

Ephesians 2:20-22 (Epistle to the Ephesians), One in Christ, which speaks of what is actually being read from verses 11-22 and of the actual title of said passages in the chapter - those being One in Christ, I believe this has already been discussed before regarding the Spiritual House, granted it speaks of the Christ being the very foundation of the church itself, the stone/cornerstone of the church. For such ones, both the Jews and the Gentiles, be it men or women are indeed one in Christ for the gender of one is not even irrelevant, as well as race and or position for what matters is being in the Christ, for here they themselves having the True God dwell in them as He did in Christ, as we learn later on of our early brothers and sisters of the church in the Scriptures.

7 hours ago, Witness said:

1 Cor 14:29-31

As for 1 Cor. 14:29-31, it is best to read out the entire passage portion of this and the references itself. The entire Orderly Worship portion in Chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians is verses 26 to 40, this is also not only regarding the brothers, but the sisters, the women, as well, moreover, the very outline of the passage half way through is titled women's position in the church.

7 hours ago, Witness said:

Gal 3:28

Granted with how one sees the passage but never put into application the very context.

People of any race, age and or gender is irrelevant, for what matters is such ones being together, one in Christ, these persons who take in knowledge that is like a treasure, having the Holy Spirit, allows God to dwell in them as He did in Jesus, and Jesus himself dwells in such ones as well, mainly if you take into account what Jesus said to His disciples in his final prayer, the same disciples who had been entrusted with the abilities of the church, of which is practiced and followed by the early church of the time, mainly in Apostle Paul's day. But is is no surprise people will use Galatians 3:28 when the very weight of what the Bible says holds more regarding the church's structure and those being one in Christ.

7 hours ago, Witness said:

Prophets that we know of in the New Testament:

Anna

Mary

Philip’s daughters

Some of them have already been mentioned. None of them held religious leadership and or authority of any kind in the church over men, regardless of their views.

• Miriam was a Prophetess (Exodus 15:20)
• Deborah was a Prophetess (Judges 4:4-7, 14-16)
• Huldah  was a Prophetess (2 Kings 22:14-20, 2 Chronicles 34:22-28)
• Isaiah's wife was spoken of to be the prophetess (Isaiah 8:3)
• Noadiah was a Prophetess (Nehemiah 6:14)
• God spoke to Ezekiel of Israelite women who were acting as Prophetesses (Ezekiel 13:17-19, 13:20-23)
• Anna was a Prophetess (Luke 2:36-38)
• That of Philip’s four virgin daughters, having been prophesied under that of God’s Holy Spirit. (Acts 21:9; 1 Corinthians 12:4, 10, see Joel 2:28, 29 and Acts 2:14-18) as well as the mention of head coverings (1 Corinthians 11:3-6)
• Jezebel-like woman who act as Prophetesses (Revelations 2:20-23)
• Prophecies will be spoken in the last days by both men and women, young and old (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17). This was seen on the Day of Pentecost, when God bypassed the priests and scribes and spoke to the people of Jerusalem through the common people of the early church (Acts 2:12; 4:13)

I haven't seen Mary mentioned as a Prophetess in the Bible compared to the others, so I leave you with the opportunity to show us where exactly it says she is called a Prophetess. She did in fact met one, and that Prophetess she has met with was Anna.

8 hours ago, Witness said:

Over the ages since Christ, we can guarantee there were more:

Acts 2:17,18 - ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
¹⁸ And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.’

Yes, but as to where female servants/slaves are said to have authority over the church, especially over that of men of authority? It is already seen as to what position they hold in teaching by means for he ministry, but never do we see the church's structure having the religious leadership position in a pastoral-like fashion held by a woman.

8 hours ago, Witness said:

There is no demarcation between male or female in these scriptures.  It is in the minds of men.

And yet you ignore the very structure of what has been put in place even by means of God's view? Nothing of which you are addressing shows anyone here that women hold a position of religious leadership and authority or said position of office over that of men IN the church.

8 hours ago, Witness said:

So you see, women who were prophets were to instruct others, which included men. Thus, prophets could be teachers as well.  And as far as teachers go, does it say they must be male?  Are you speaking for God when you say women cannot teach?  How do you know women who are anointed are not given the admonition by Holy Spirit to teach, especially when we have record of women prophets who also instructed others in the congregations?

Being a prophet, minister, teacher does not override the authority of a religious and or church leader of a pastoral-like level over a man of similar and or equal position. Teachers are both male and female, but according to how God’s actions through even his Son, the Christ, what is set is very specific role and action to both male and female.

According to the church’s structure, I defend what God’s Word informs us about, unlike mainstream Christendom, I do not try to alter what the Church structure is, try to change up God’s Laws because for some it is burdensome and or harsh and or seen as unnecessary, I do not try to tweak anything in relation to binding and loosening, the abilities of which has been entrusted to the Church by the Christ himself and a list of other things. I am aware enough to speak, saying by means of biblical interpretation on even this subject for years now and what is said is indeed true and unbreakable. Other than that, is is a very good thing that people like me are aware and have studied the church's history to even make known of what is actually the case in terms of religious leadership.

Why wouldn’t I know? Pentecost was indeed something that everyone knows and who was involved and who had received the outpouring of the Spirit, both men and women included, as well as all the disciples of Jesus who remained in the city, which also includes Judas’ replacement, Matthias. What took place right after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the helper given to the people? Those having the Spirit and by means of the Spirit’s power allow God to be with them, as he was with the Christ, these people went on to preach and teach, having people coming to know God, know his Son and what the Kingdom is all about, and those who became disciples become teachers themselves, and the cycle of making teachers of disciples continues until the conclusion of the End Times and Tribulations. But nowhere we see a woman, be it a minister, prophetess, teacher, etc take up the role of a church leader of which is only this position of authority is associated with men.

The records show us that women taught as teachers and some of them were prophetesses. No Church structure has a religious and or church leader that is a woman, and attempting to place a prophetess, a minister and or teacher in such a position is only bringing forth accursed doctrinal teachings (Galatians 1:8-11).

Now, Jesus, the head of the church did indeed call on to women to help out in this regard, and he called them into significant ministry, for He was for them. Although he did not choose women to be apostles, as some argue, it does not mean that the role of women in the church was not important at all. Jesus was one to believe that it is beneficial for the church and the family if men assumed the role of Christ-like servant and leaders, and women came in alongside with their respective gifts to help carry the leadership through according to those gifts in regards of the church, for instance, teaching, ministerial work, etc. For it is not a surprise to anyone that God has ordained that in the home and in the church men assume a special role of responsible of not only teaching, but assume role of leadership, which is in conjunction with the church structure itself by means of the head of the church.

Now, God’s Word makes known of the following, that a woman should learn in quietness and full submission, in addition, it does not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, which is the case with any leadership and or pastoral-like position, for she must be silent

• 1 Timothy 2:11-12 – (11) Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. (12) I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Regarding the church, God has different roles and or position for both men and women, which is in connection with the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world

• 1 Timothy 2:13-14 – (13) For Adam was formed first, then Eve; (14) and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Our Heavenly Father, through an Apostle, Apostle Paul, has place restrictions on to women from serving in roles of leadership regarding teaching or having spiritual authority over men, a high position in the church, if you will, which prevents women from serving as pastors over men of authority, which definitely includes preaching, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over such men.

According to the women I have mention several times here and elsewhere, some will make the claim that women can be leaders and or pastors of a church, religious leadership by ill interpretation, mainly when said interpretation is heavily focused on Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah, all of them being Prophetesses (Prophets)  in the Hebrew Old Testament. It is true, without question and or doubt, that these women were chosen by God Yahweh/Jehovah for special service to Him and that they stand as examples in the faith by means of their courage and their actions, and, yes, one can say such is somewhat of a leadership role, however, the authority of women in the Hebrew Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastoral-like position of leadership in the church itself; of the church. The Greek New Testament Epistles shows us a model for God’s people, the church, which is the foundation - the Body of Christ, which involves an authorial structure very unique to the church, and only the church.

Now that we are in the Greek New Testament, we can go more in-depth of both Priscilla (Prsica) and Phoebe, both of them being ministers and or teachers. We know that in Acts chapter 18, Priscilla, and her husband, Aquila, are presented as ministers. Both Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to many, even the likes of Apollos, a Christian Jew raised in the city of Alexandria (the place of higher education and learning known for its wonderful library in those days as well as culture), the capital of the Roman province of Egypt. This man of whom the faithful and courageous couple preached to was well versed, knowledgeable and educated.

Because of  Aquila , as well as his wife, Priscilla, their ministry by means of teaching Apollos accurate knowledge of God was a success, hence God’s spirit enabled him to show enthusiasm for the right things and to be willing to accept teachings that were more accurate of which he received by means of this ministry.

The very reason it can see seen in verse 26 of the passage that they explained to him the way of God more adequately, hence why he was able to receive accurate knowledge about God as mentioned right above (Acts 18:26). Although we see this, we do not, in fact, never in the Bible that the wife of Aquila, Priscilla, held a pastoral role in a/of the church or taught publicly or became the religious leader of the church, and or a congregation of saints.

Now we go to Phoebe, a Christian woman of the church in Cenchreae. In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a deacon [diakonos in Greek] (or in this case, a servant), in the church and she is highly commended by Apostle Paul. But just like Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate and or show that Phoebe was a pastor or one for having religious leadership of men of authority in the church. The ability to teach is given as a qualification for elders and or church leaders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:6-9).

Going back to what was said above, the structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 pretty much makes for reason why women cannot be pastors fairly clear and analyzing Apostle Paul’s statement is very simple, mainly verse 13 to that of 11 and 12.

We also have to take into consideration that of both Adam and Eve. For this also is very simple: Adam was created first, and second came Eve. Adam was not the first to deceive, for it was the woman, Eve, who was the first deceived (again, 1 Timothy 2:11-14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a helper for Adam. The very order of creation has an application in the family structure as seen in Ephesians 5:22-33, and in the church, it is quite obvious of how the structure actually is.

The fact that Eve was deceived being read in 1 Timothy 2:14 as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having heighten authority over men is abundantly clear. This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men, otherwise they would not would be in a position to even teach/care for children, having the gifts, or ministerial works. The text simple and clear, that women are not to teach men of authority or have some form of religious authority over men and the reasons for such is also clear. God Almighty has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church and we can see this in scripture as well as what His Son entrusted the church.

Many women handle various gifts of which is good, such hospitality, mercy, teaching, ministerial works in accordance with the gospel, and helping/serving, there is also no restriction on praying as some nowadays also come up with a silly argument of, for in their part, they are wrong (1 Corinthians 11:5). Majority of the ministry of the church, locally, is dependent on women and their actions of contribution, for instance we have a Christian woman of God by the name of Lydia, who was most likely a Jewish proselyte. Also, the Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts that comes from the Holy Spirit itself  as seen in 1 Corinthians 12, Spiritual Gifts (1-11), One Body with Many Members (12-31). Despite not having a religious leadership role in the church and or position of office in some regard, women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to put into application and express that of the Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the those who do not know what the gospel teaches (Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8, 1 Peter 3:15).

God has put into place and action that only men are to serve in positions of religious leadership which includes teaching authority in the church, in addition, some will even point to 1 Corinthians 11:3, 7-8 of which can be seen of how God has said how the church and family hierarchy should be like. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent, but simply, it is the way God designed the church to function, it is also the way of which the Christ has set forth for the church. Men are to set the example in religious leadership in their lives, their household and through their words, on the other hand, women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are and always have been encouraged to teach other women as we read in Titus 2:3-5 and the Bible also does not restrict, as is mentioned already, women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is religious authority of teaching or having authority over men thus preventing women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s Purpose and Will, as well as the gifts HE has given to them.

We must also be very aware that True Christian women follow the examples set in the Bible itself, as seen in Proverbs 31:10-31. As sated above, women cannot hold a religious position of authority over men, an indication from the scriptures itself which is as true as the sun in the sky, but they, like men, have a full share and position of the work of the Great Commission itself, the ministry regarding the making of disciples, the spreading of the gospel to the people, bringing them to learn and take in accurate knowledge of the truth of which comes from the Bible. And as stated already, they, when taking into account how the church is structured in a family sense, teach children (Proverbs 1:8), by means of their words and action, women who are True Christians, who know what the Bible say, even to what is being discussed, work hard to be a good influence, once again, Titus 2:3-5.

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

5  Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.n 16  Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.o 17  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”

And? Had it ever occurred to you that perhaps the Tree, as well as the Tree of Life may have and would have had a different purpose later on if Adam and Eve had become disobedient? Who knew what God's plans were originally before he said the following in Genesis 3:15 which paved a way for his Son, Jesus to clean up after us.

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

The teachings tell us that Adam and Eve eating from the tree of knowledge is what unleashed evil all over the world.

Adam and Eve simply disobeyed, kicked out of the Garden and left to cultivate the earth, they did the hand out treatment that the Garden and Eden had for them, so they had to do things on their own, get and make food on their own and realizing they were naked, they had to cultivate the earth in order to cloth themselves, granted I did find the exchange between God and Adam regarding Adam's nakedness quite funny. All tree-fruit aside, evil came about has men progressed.

I wouldn't call it an unleash of evil, it came about among mankind who already had inherited sin, and they were not the only ones who did evil and or bad things, we have demons, fallen angels, former Spirit sons who dwell among God's presence, who had sexual relations with the daughters of men and eventually exposed an cast out of heaven, clearly a fruit didn't cause the angels to go on a earthly dating trip. At that point, God see that things went from 100 to 0 really fast, then came Enoch, and then came Noah, and afterwards men, again, went on to do bad things, but no worries, remember Genesis 3:15, God knew what had to be done and therefore Jesus was indeed coming, and he will return to actually cut out the wickedness like a seed in an Avocado.

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

But if God made the tree, then he created the bad that went into it as well, no?

Unless you knew what God's original plan WAS for the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life, then you can speak of what you are saying, other than that, none of us know what was the original plan before God even stated what he said in Genesis 3.

Who knows but the LORD. But I can imagine if Adam and Eve ate from both trees, not only we have to deal with imperfect men, but every tyrant and monster in American and or mankind's history, we would all have to deal with to this day.

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

Update:

New World Translation:

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

King James Version

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 American Standard Version

7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Ok... No application of context and what the cross-references say exactly? You might as well look up what evil/calamity, in any translation points to.

Also both Calamity and Evil are 7451, so there is a respects to the Strong's and the manuscripts, not much of a drastic change if the Strong's are identical. So those listed are correct.

On 8/5/2018 at 3:02 PM, Jack Ryan said:

02 August 14:30

Operational employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia in the Kostroma region during the implementation of a set of special events revealed the facts of the activities of the religious organization "Jehovah's Witnesses", which was liquidated in Russia. As the guards of order established, in Kostroma the young couple was engaged in propaganda.

In the place of their residence, the spouses, 1993 and 1996 b. held meetings of the participants of the organization, they also produced and distributed video and printed products.

During the search, 27 books and 45 brochures, office equipment, electronic cassettes containing religious sermons were found and seized in the apartment of suspects by police officers.

Currently, in relation to suspected investigators of the SS of the SK of Russia in the Kostroma region, a criminal case has been initiated on the grounds of the crime provided for in Part 1 and Part 2 of Art. 282.2 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.

FOR REFERENCE:

By the decision of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation of April 20, 2017, which came into force, the religious organization "Jehovah's Witnesses Administrative Center in Russia" and its local religious organizations, including Jehovah's Witnesses in Kostroma, were liquidated in connection with the implementation of extremist activities.

https://44.xn--b1aew.xn--p1ai/news/item/13980758/

You really have to go into Russian stories with a skeptical point of view and a grain of salt, this is coming from a guy who has strong Russian connections with those who understand media and all things going about in that country, but now you have given me something to give to my sources to check it out.

This is why I thank the 777 crew.

@Claudia Sanchez That just goes to show you that presidents think they are not being watched. Apparently, someone manage to get a picture of what we see here. Granted in Monroe's case, a lot of men wanted to be with this women, the president clearly no being excluded among the group, at the same time, he has committed adultery.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Male species in human society ruling the world, generally. And this world with so many male leader's  became very ugly.  I don't how would look the world if female would take charge. Maybe not so much better too. But, why not to try :))))   

There has been 30+ female leaders/co-leaders and they are as equally worse and or far worse than male leaders, but it varies, for instance, we have the leader of the Egyptians known as Cleopatra who was in-between good and bad. She took down and ruined her own brother's Kingdom and killed him by means of an order, she also had her sister killed. She literally attracted so many men of her time that would cut their own foot to lay with her, hence why she prostituted herself around to even the Romans, and had a connection with a prominent one, Caesar. Ironically, she is respected because she wanted to keep the culture and traditions of the Egyptians in check and did everything by means of her power, as well as her looks, to do what is necessary. Not a good person by means of the standards though, but most certainly had chaotic evil compared to most women rulers out of the many we had so far around the world for centuries. But she also respect the native tradition of the Egyptian, tried every trick in her books to preserve the integrity of her nation against the ever expanding Roman military. She is a good leader, one of the best her people could ever hope for - but she was definitely not a ‘good person’ by most standard.

But as with what we learn from history, there is no specific age and or the sex of the individual, for power begets action and action, at times begets evil due to corruption.

Other than that, as for what is in discussion, a woman cannot be a religious leader. What can be done is covering for a religious leader, but never, ever can take his place, and even if she was to hold a position, temporarily, she is to cover her head in order to not disrespect God's Laws and or what is active by means of the church foundation.

Now, since the Genesis storm had subsided, as back to the original-original topic at hand.

The Jehovah's Witnesses, even during the days of the Great Awakening as Bible Students and before that when this Restorationist group was still in it's infancy, had never, ever claimed to be and anyone who says otherwise clearly has not taken up a class in Religious History: Christianity 101.

Restorationism and or those of it are the category of Monotheism (The belief that only one God exist and that God is the Father). Such ones speak of being directed by the spirit and or spirit directed, but never inspired, for if they were, then that would be a completely different story, for the Church is indeed directed by the spirit, but those of the church never inspired, for they are but students of the same Monotheistic practice practices by the leaders, to the stewards to the members, to which they in turn, teach to others, thus being evangelicals and to convert people, make disciples, prepare for baptism and the former students, now members of the faith will replicate the same thing, for the making of disciples will only cease when the proper time arrives. Granted Restorationism are continuous in learning biblical knowledge and practices, hence over time putting into application of what is beneficial for them, this pretty much breaks the claim of some people who speak of such of primitive Christendom.

Also Modernist Inspiration is unfounded by any who adheres to the early church. This practice is normal posed by mainstream Christians are are among conservatives, liberals and the like or if we are to speak of Babylon's religion, we have those of the Kairos Movement, and or anyone or any church in connection to the E.I.I. (The conquest of both the Vatican and the Nations)

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am not disagreeing with the need for church or family discipline and accountability.

I am only disagreeing with the EXTENT and SEVERITY, and CRUELTY of how it is currently done.

(... many have reacted to such "loving cruelty" with suicide, or worse.)

It's a good thing we do not chastise our wayward children by cutting off their heads.

....  with soothing words in a kind and loving way ... of course.

I think I told Mr. Butler before, excommunication and handling by the faith itself is as it is, but at the same time it usually depends on who issues X for the actions of Y. So let's say you have an Indian church in New York (A) and a French church in Boston (B).

Let's say in Church A, someone got busted for smoking and he was only caught because of a post online, and in Church B, a similar situation, but the family found out and informed the leaders of church B.

Church A can give a warning, as well instruct while church B ends up expelling the person, church ties are cut so the church will shun you, but the expelled person does not dwell in Apostasy and later reinstates himself. Let's add another church into the mix, church C, Greek Church, same situation, this person is excommunicated, but now speaks ill of the church despite being shun by it, this will also lead that same person to be quite rude and ignorant of his actions to even his own family, at this point is is Apostasy because the expelled person this he is in the right when he was busted for smoking.

Excommunication cannot effect cultural based practices, which is something not really much known to Americans and most in the EU and it is usually in such in the Caribbean, Africa, and Asia, for Asia, East Asia to be specific, has the East Asians Filial Piety. I can give example of myself also, let's say I was of the church and was excommunicated, all church ties among the leaders with me will be gone as well as with some members who have a position in the church, at the same time, I will receive in a few months people of the church coming to speak with me, to give instruction on steps needed to work on my own error: At this point I can accept the advice and later on chose to go about it or not, I can say to myself, smoked once, it won't hurt me again, I have my own money, I can buy a pack or not. This will bring forth the strength of the family to help me put the advice into good use, and help me get back to the church. If I become an Apostate because I wish to smoke up a storm at my choosing, at this point the my family will simply leave m,e to my own devices, hoping I make the change, and then lung cancer, paid for it in the end.

In short, due to how my people are in culture and practices, excommunicated or not, there is a solution to help you with yourself and or get back to the church. As for Americans though, are not the ones to have core cultural basis compared to those who do, so that, with excommunication can lead to a lot of things, majority of the time, Apostasy because hey, when you leave a church, Apostasy is easy when you can spark Interfaith-sque attitude to everyone and your household.

Tragically, people have done these things, suicide and even murder and other things, for such ones are taking things to the extreme, and usually in social media, the information is often convoluted and leads a person of the church to actually thing this is what is going on and or God hates them and that their life is indeed worthless, but at the same time we have to take into account the value that life is, mainly in front of the eyes of the life giver himself. This also happens when Interfaith is in subjection with the expelled one's current and or former faith. But it is crazy that some would take the extreme approach as suicide when the help from other sources is present.

As for the other, technically there is Spiritual Death, out of excommunication, the other form, Herem, is a stoning of sons and daughters, not literally of course, but the presence of the one within Herem is pretty much asking to be ignored and stoned. Herem is tough because there is little to no chance to be reinstated and Apostasy leads you off road at this point, pretty much you have to rebuild your reputation of the faith community greatly in order to get yourself out of a Herem.

Other than that, church ties are severed. The only connection is your family, but the reputation with them will be a bit low due to them being in the same church as you are, and you would have to be careful with them for they are literally the key to being reinstated to the church faith. Even though the church unfriended you at this point, you have to work on yourself to build yourself back up, prove it, which can also be done to your family. And as time processes, you can go back to the church, and you, the stone, is put back in the foundation you fell from. While excommunicated, it is easy to become an Apostasy so one has to be very careful of that, for church ties can and never will be an easy to fix, and in some lands, Apostasy is like dishonoring not just God, but your family, and you'll be treated as a man treats his not so friendly mother in law.

But yeah, messing with what binds and loosens, as strict as it is, we cannot tweak and or change what it is, you can only work with what you have in this regard.

Oh and if we still had stoning, it is best to craft a shield for the stone storm and run away, not only that you are excommunicated, but you exile yourself from the community. Also getting pegged by a stone HURTS - like getting it by a not so smooth golf club.

15 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

I just know that Jehovah's eyes are everywhere and He certainly knows what is going on.   In His own time...Jehovah will correct what needs correcting.   We should all pray for and about the Elders.   

 

Indeed. For pastors, elders stewards, servants are only putting into application what the Church has been entrusted with by means of Jesus. No one wants top put a crack and or dent in the very foundation of the church itself, the only reason why expelling aka excommunication, be it disfellowship, Herem, Takfir is as of what it is and always be, not the watered down version practiced by the mainstream. Church ties will be cut, and it is up to the person, who has been expelled, to reinstate him or herself or not, at the same time, said person has to be careful not to dwell in the realm of Apostasy.

I had a good source for this a while back, I will probably re-post them when I have the time.

@Witness Women, such as Phoebe, as well as the the wife of Aquila, Priscilla (also known as Prisca) were female ministers, and solely that. They do not take up a role such as Paul and or others like Paul, but they are still favored and good contributors to the cause, that is, the Great Commission in regards to spreading the good news gospel, speaking about the Christ and the promises that his God and Father will bring forth. Women cannot be pastors and or church leaders, mainly if you take into account the Church itself, so they were not Apostles and or Church Leaders of any kind, this role is only affiliated with their counterparts, males.

But there is indeed a situation as to when a women can take the roles men hold, but usually in a dire situation as to men, both young and old are somehow not available entirely, be it due to terror, political, governmental, and or other action, this puts women in a role of a church leader such as pastor, steward/servant, but at the same time they must remain under God's Law, have head coverings and the like.

Regarding Restorationist, this is an option during a last resort, so they, the Jehovah's Witnesses, should any dire event come to them, Russia being an example, but let's say with only men taken out of the equation, then this puts women of that church in such a position, for as long as their is a man who is head and or servant, everything is as normal as can be, but a woman cannot take up such a position unless met with a situation that is literally a code red.

This goes for sermons, funerals, leading members in a study group and or anything pertaining to it, etc. But 100% of the time, without question, they must cover their heads, there is no excuse for not doing so and not doing so will put the woman in a bad light.

For the head of the Christ is God. The head of the Church is the Christ. The head of the woman is the man.

What is also rarely talked about is the fact women, only a few of them in the Bible, are Prophetess, Deborah being one, as well as Miriam, or Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the Tribe of Asher, who was present when Jesus as taken to the Temple of God on the 8th day prior to circumcision.

On 8/2/2018 at 11:31 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

That is WAAAAaaay beyond size 18 ...  I myself wear a size 16.

Probably, my calculations look silly after I seen this image:

 

Other than that, women, taking over for men, it seems will more of like a book/reading-club-sque like fashion, after doing some research, it appears as this is the case, head coverings included. Since JWs do not have pews, having chairs instead, they can move them around easily, have it set up in a circle motion (musical chairs like fashion).

On 8/3/2018 at 7:30 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

....why this make memory on some Bible reports and Mosaic Law that giving permission to Israel soldiers doing the very same thing. To capture virgins after they killed all males. ... maybe because Middle East is connection and blood relationship, kinship of tribes from ancient times.      

I am speaking about modern times of stuff like this is happening. One, out of several, of my sources, solely based on this matter, who goes by the name Syrian Girl, real name, Maram Susli (Mimi al-Laham), who is very credible in the information on anything in relation to things in he Middle East, her primary focus being Syria. At times when she is way too informative, it results in those who have attempted several times to wipe out all she has said, luckily, those who adhere to this information, is able to keep this truth alive and thriving. This was the same case with another, like her who goes by the name Serena Shim, who was murdered by supporting US allies when she discovered critical information on ISIS - therefore there are many like myself who are avid truth seekers. I myself have been researching the Middle East and parts of the EU for 6 years now and only took upon this path out of curiosity to what a US General, Wesley Clark, had said.

That being said, The current situation has nothing to do with The Mosaic Law, for every True Christian is under a New Law since the death of the Christ, The New Covenant, or as some call it, The Law of Christ (Law of the Christ). Current day Israel's only concern is Iran, and even today, Israel will target any Palestinian Christian they wish, and it does not go well for them, mainly those who find out what the Israeli government is all about and what they are doing, with the backing of several allies, 2 of them being the US and the UK being on the forefront.

Well this other part is both true and false. What usually happens is they around up the men and execute them, the boys they either take them to kill, rape and or turn them into soldiers for their cause by force and threat of death, of them and or any living family member, so in a sense, like a bloody ransom with no positive outcome because everyone knows, you cannot trust someone who is radicalized for terror. The women, either they had sexual relations with a man or remain as virgins, are taken, regardless, and they range from young girls to older women, at times, only sometimes they kill any leftover girls or women, and will most likely kill any girl or woman who had already sexual relations with a man, of which an execution is only by chance, this excludes bombings which takes out a crowd of people. This has also led to some women, abandoning their faith, self-excommunicating themselves to become militants, some of them will maintain their faith but have a sense of regret for now being a rifle wielding defender, but they have no choice because they have an enemy out there that seeks to devour them.

In some areas, Christian men tend to be absent, which is the case today in some parts dealing with Terrorism and Bad government. This actually results in women taking and or covering the place of a man in the church itself, so for instance, a pastor and 3 servants, all being males were either captured and or killed by members of ISIS. Because there is no one to replace these 4 men and clearly a child cannot take such a position, older women of that church would have to take over and continue, mainly any women who has the experience to take up this role, at the same time, because they are a women, they must cover themselves in total respects to God and his Law.

As for Tribes, they had since spread out, and are existing today.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Although the Bible in its text contains a lot of male nouns for God, it also contains nouns that describe God in the form of a woman (female).

Most likely for god(s) and or godlike ones, for female is usually said to be goddess. You also have to remember in both Hebrew and Greek a noun and or verb is always associated with something, and nowhere is it seen in the Bible that a feminine noun is associated with The God (θεός) for it is always Masculine - YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, Abba, Father, Hashem, etc is and will always been Masculine.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Bible scholars in the WT organization teach that God does not have sex (which would mean that God is neither male nor female).

That is because God is a Spirit Person (John 4:24, 1 Corinthians 3:17, 1 Timothy 1:17, Hebrews 11:27), he is not like a man or like a son of man (Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29), nor is he men like us (Job 9:32). God is male, and whenever you see Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH/YHVH (יְהֹוָה), whenever you see Father, The one whom Sent Jesus, or simply put, God/The God of, etc. it is associated as Masculine and of which it is associated with is a male person, in this case, the Father who is a Spirit, for he is YHWH.

I mean, seeing this should be obvious: יְהֹוָה, it is a Proper Name, also known as the Personal and or Divine name of God, the Name from the Tetragrammaton.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

On the other hand, the first book of the Bible says that God created the first man and woman in his own image, in his own likeness. From this it is easy to conclude that God, the Creator has the characteristics of both sexes (so-called male and female traits, features) because all those characteristics came from God who has all traits that exist in form of male and female creatures.

Indeed, but you forget that God has made companion and or mate for male animals, and he did so for the first man, a male, Adam. He had Adam go into a deep sleep and took a rib from his body and create Eve.

To be specific, God said Let Us (Jesus was with him at the time) make Man in our image, he began with the creation of man, thus making Adam, we do not see Eve until very later on and it is unknown of how long Adam lived by himself before God had created Eve.

For image simply look at the references (1 Corinthians 11:7) and for likeness (Genesis 5:1, James 3:9). It should be straightforward as in how we are made in God's image and likeness, for instance, we have patience, for God is patience, he put this in us, as well as mildness, anything connecting and or pertaining to the Fruits of the Spirit, as a side-note, what is not mentioned in Galatians, but equals to all these things mention is humility, a common trick question, which is like a secret and or hidden truth. Jesus also expressed this same likeness, these qualities, that his Father has, and so do we.

As for the last sentence of what you said, that is an incorrect analogy, mainly if you put together scriptural facts. Both male and female can display humility because God has that, both of them can express love and patience because God has that.

God has never been seen at all by any man and even if that was possible, a man would die for God's glory is just that great and He, his glory, cannot even be contained. The only ones to have seen God is Spirit Beings, and Jesus himself, so we cannot jump the gun to say his traits and or features when clearly we never seen him. We can only see his Purpose and Will by means of Jesus, for if you see the Son you see the Father, for it is the Father who abides in the Son and it is The Father who is doing the works.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

There is a very large resistance, in society, when a person wants to change their sex (gender) or love more then one woman. God created, says the Bible, all in this world. He created creatures that are monogamist and bigamist. He created those who sometimes show homosexual tendencies. But he also created those creatures that change their sex throughout their lives. So, for Him nothing can make surprise.

That is because the changing of sex, same-sex marriage and or anything that is in connection with breaking God's Law is not tolerated at all. Granted JWs are Restorationist, they are very strict on this, this is also the case with both the denominational and the non-denominational. It was also not intended for males to grown female reproductive organs and females to grow reproductive organs by means of overdosing on Testosterone and or other drugs made for this sole purpose. And now that you mention it, there are those who have 100% success, woe to the man that despite to date a woman only to find out the woman is not truly a woman at all.

Granted with the Origins of Marriage and what was enacted prior to Jesus' birth, a man can only be with one woman and a woman can only be with one man, 2 yoked together. Polygamy (this also goes for Bigamy) is not suppose to be a practice among Christians. One can argue that it came about after The Original Ancestral Sin, since there was a few people on the earth, but that was before the times the church and Christians came about and during those days, Polygamy was frowned upon, prior to Jesus and afterwards - hence the Christian marriage arrangement.

Christians are able to re-marry, should a spouse passes away and or if a legitimate reason for a divorce is in place, clearly not for those silly situations of who is dealing with the bills.

Homosexual tendencies never began with God, for if it did, what was the reason to Eve existing in the first place? Let alone want happen afterwards? Homosexual tendencies came about by the people themselves and we can see this in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah as well as Nineveh. God never intended for us to change our sex in our lives.

God not being surprised? We cannot be saying that. Clearly God's reaction to a woman removing her own reproductive system using drugs, which allows the growing of a male reproductive system and removing, God's reaction will be the same as he was with Molech worshipers (fire torment practitioners) and the actions of those in Sodom and Gomorah, people forget that God has emotions, and can enact such emotions, so clearly this practice of changing sex would sadden him and will anger him just as a man can be sad, shocked and angered only to find out Becky is really (was originally) Bob.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If God created a male and female as He Himself, any division in a formats that are characteristic of/for some religious organizations is completely wrong.

Wrong as in what? If God, the molder, has humility, love, and a list of other motions, such is passed off to both male and female, who are molded by the molder (Creator to Creation). We are in His image and likeness, and the Bible makes it explicitly clear as to what such conveys, the very reason cross-references ARE in the Bible.

On 8/3/2018 at 4:33 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

here also :))

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean by that. Figure and or an Expression of speech is what it is. Unless you were being sarcastic, that would be understandable and make more sense.

Well if one has an issue with what the church has been entrusted, one would have to question the head of the church himself, whom gave said abilities to bind and loosen, the church.

Excommunication is as it is, regardless of any faith. Various things can get someone kicked out of a temple, home and or any dwelling place for worship, be it a current member and or the every-other-day guy.

Excommunication is also known as the Takfir, in Islam, and in Judaism, He'rem, which is far more worse than the common excommunication practiced and used in Christendom.

Some Christians deem excommunication too harsh, and took it upon themselves to tweak entrusted abilities, which can pose a a problem when the head of the church himself returns. Even worse, some do not use excommunication at all, thus abandoning the abilities of the church, i.e. 2 persons, seasoned members of the church caught and or revealed to have been doing brazen conduct, since their church does not practice excommunication, these 2 get off scott-free. For some form of binding and or loosening has to be in place, otherwise why attempt to follow to that of the foundation itself?

Other than that, ties with the church is cut off entirely until one reinstates him or herself to the church, despite church ties being cut, the only line of communication is family and relatives, but the spread of interfaith and or religious attacking said faith will put one in the position of Apostasy.

Excommunication can happen to anyone, any age, regardless of sex, at any time. Church ties will indeed be cut off like lumberjack cutting a tree.

On 8/4/2018 at 9:32 PM, Marcus Aurelius said:

Evidently not... McDonald's now has it's own scare:

 

Well someone won't be happy when he checks his email about this.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Isn't it interesting if we tell someone that we were talking to God, more than likely we will be perceived as righteously inclined ... whereas if we tell someone that God speaks to us ..... we will be perceived as bat crap crazy?

After all, God only listens to those who can get through the door, and that door being, the Christ, for no one can go to the Father, but rather, only through the Son they can reach out to the Father.

It's like someone trying to get past a bouncer in a club, once that someone knows he or she cannot get inside, the next day they will make up all kinds of stories as if they actually got inside for the event and or party.

In that sense, someone probably assumes they talked with God and or God talk to them and try to show off in some sense when in reality, that person didn't even bother to knock on said door.

But Lord, there are some crazies out there who are extremely insane, demon possessed, and will say God made me to do this, or that. But Jesus just told me to do this, and or that, I did it for Jesus, and said action they did is both disturbing and insane.

Because of these guys, they make actual true Christians look like crazy people and make such ones the big joke on the round-table.

When I see crazy Christians and or New Age believers, oh and the Spiritualists, my only reaction to their claims and actions, their  nutcasery:

 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Technology is both a blessing and a curse. Can be used for good things of good intent and will and on the other side of the spectrum for vile and evil things. For instance, someone can use technology to replicate your information and or send a squad of police and SWAT to your home because that one 6 year old kid was angry at the fact you won that blue tee-shirt from a famous guy that visited your town.

Sooner or later you will have the terminator on your doorstep, mega-man in your home, a robot that is capable of unlocking doors and windows and moving your around your stuff, and soon robots, that APPEAR human, but not Human, but look human and act human but not the best as a normal human does all human-y things.

 

And let's not forget Orwell 1984's famous picture when it comes to government and techology

They're coming for your superman comics and the apple tree in your backyard....

32 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

perhaps i am "daft" according to your judgement.....but your upper statement reveal something strange  :)))))

Then take a good look at as to what I made the response to. And no it is not of my own judgment, it is of what we actually know of what God's Promise consist of, and that is, The Abrahamic Seed, otherwise known as The Seed of Abraham.

Strange? Care to share? For everything that is of the Bible you have something to say that connects with your opinion, as you so claim before over the biblical standpoint itself, not the first time you have done this, nor will it be the last.

26 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Where is Bible verse that say how Abraham choose to lie because of given promise. Bible verses we used until now show how he lie because of fear for his life. He is not mentioned any promise in context with Pharaoh or Abimelek. 

And if Abraham were to die, that Promise (The Christ and the Heirs) would have existed. Even you said, out of your own understanding, that God will probably have some other way to produce this promise, but at the same time, God has never had his Promises broken, yes he intervened in some situations, but never has his word been broken. I have already spoke on said verses, pages back, take a look, it is an eye-opener, moreover, you have the words of others.

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

this is so silly! and you have authority to call me names and say how i am "daft" :)))))))))))))

Is it now? Name any of the Pharaoh's in Abraham's Day who knew the God, soon to be called the God of Israel?

Being called daft isn't name calling. Daft means foolish, silly, absurd and crazy,mainly to the response you have given to which I have stated.

@admin will do.

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

i hear that on radio station loong ago, and it is in link i send, Jutarnji list.

 

But you said it is a famous quote? All famous quotes are easily traced back, but when searching for this one nothing could really be found, so to say it is famous is not true, but perhaps just one of those quotes this man tends to say. If quotes from olden times can be found easily by various means, it should not be different for this guy.

• I can say I have a dream, famous quote, can be looked up within seconds, MLK.
• I can say, No woman, no cry, famous quote from a song, look it up, Bob Marley, easy
• I can say Turtle Power, famous quote from a cartoon series, Teenage Mutant  Ninja Turtles, easy look up, easy find

Now when I attempt to find this so called famous quote, nothing, therefore, it is probably something he said and not much of a famous quote.

I gave you examples, Sostar....

Also the link takes me to a main page, not to the quote directly. Attempt with no success, therefore, not as famous as you make it to be.

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

" ponekad kažem istinu"  - wrong translation, have to be - "samo ponekad govorim neistinu"

ponekad kažem istinu = sometimes i tell  the true

samo ponekad govorim neistinu =sometimes i  talking the untruth

That is why I said possible translation. Now that you put it together, you may as well traced back the source itself of said famous quote.

I do not speak that Language by the way so not very easy to get an exact translation vs. a possible one, I speak English, French, Creole, Hebrew, Greek, Japanese, and Spanish, very little Russian (only learned it a bit because of some cheeky insult some guy said to a friend of mine a while back - the jokes on him when I knew now what he said).

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

AND NOW some quotes what means "Spiritual Warfare" according WT JWORG, organization you support and defend. So, let read some clear meaning in sentences: (source- https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957327

Oh really now? Spiritual Warfare, as I made it mention to you months ago and I mention it to you now is what it is, you do not need a link to the Watchtower to tell you what it is because they know, as to MANY others know what Spiritual Warfare is as well as Civil Disobedience, which is enforced and made know and in use, according to Apostle Paul and his own actions that comes from Civil Disobedience. This same action was expressed by several in the Bible, as well as a majority of them being women, since we know Sarah is in the discussion, I mention she is seen as a HERO for if she and Abraham didn't do what they did, there would be no Promise and they did what they could to protect that promise by preserving their lives by means of their own reasoning only for God to not only intervene, but allow them to continue living so that promise can prosper - Jesus Christ, is what came from said Promise.

Are you that daft, Serecko? But I guess to you if you had to put your hands in this passage, you probably have Abraham, and or his Son be no more, perhaps Rehab and you, being in Johnathan's place would have sold out David to Saul and every man and women who originated from David would not have existed, again, the Christ would have never came and God's Promise, by means of Abraham's Seed would be gone for good.

You fail to understand what Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is.

For Spiritual Warfare is what it is as well as what Civil Disobedience, two peas in the same pod, is what it is and yes I defend what is said of these things and how our early Christian counterparts, and those we came from, did the same to preserve one thing and one thing only, anything pertaining to God's Purpose and Will.

But is is very sad to see you attempt to pull a Watchtower publication or article on the matter when everyone around the world knows what this means and will say the same thing. But according to you, Abraham should have said Sarah was his wife, and should Abraham die, it is on you.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If somebody want to justifies Abraham act by this WT explanation, let he do it, but i do not have to join.

Unfortunately, anyone who knows Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience, will say the same thing and know when it is justified, you can cry about Watchtower all you want but the reality is they, as do all persons, know about what I speak of which originated from the very Bible itself, both in action and terminology. It does not take a  rocket science, or perhaps in this case, a Jehovah's Witness, to understand that because they do know it like the rest of us who know exactly know what  it entails.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1) Using arguments how Abraham never "give an oath" to Pharaoh or Abimelek, that he will answer them with truth on their questions.

Granted if the actually truth would put God's Purpose and Will in Jeopardy, thus putting a killing blow to God's Promise and Prophecy regarding of the coming Prophet. No Abraham = No Prophet = No awaiting of a Savior = No said Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Abraham, as well as Sarah's actions pretty much helped them dodge a bullet or two (or what I like to say: dodged the hornet's nest) in order to preserve that Promise, the very reason why even some to this day consider Sarah Fearless God fearing woman, a hero, and a number of other things.

QUOTE: Sarah  - Sarah demonstrated faith and obedience while believing God's promises. She left her comfortable and familiar surroundings to launch her journey with God. ~ (Women of The Christ)

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

2) Abraham not choose to "refuse to speak and suffer the consequences", but to speak what he think it is suitable to speak.

Abraham preserved his life for the Promise of God comes from him, Sarah, who complied with her Lord, Abraham, for she and her husband knew that they have enemies who do not know God and do not fear God, they also had people outside of their own people who have no ideas of who God is and will do and can do vile things to God's people. It is also known that Abraham's and Sarah's people are the most hated are often the ones to be targets by others, for such ones usually kill the men and take the women and girls as plunder to be servants, slaves and or wives, having them believe in false gods, rather than the True God, and by means of their offspring because they are taken by these people, their children and their children's children end up believing in false gods also.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3) Lies are untruths told for "selfish reasons" and which work "injury to others." Did Abraham been selfish or not it depends on our perspective and is subjective. Did his act injury others?? Yes, because reports told us what was happened with Pharaoh's and Abimelek's family and people. 

Jesus being Born from the line of Abraham is not selfish, in fact, God was the one who spoke of this Promise to Abraham, why else you think Jesus talks about Abraham seeing the light of his day and or that he was before Abraham? By means og God, Jesus was able to be born of a woman, Mary, due to Abraham being alive for his people to even exist, we know how Israel came to be, why consider it as selfish?

The only reason Pharaoh and Abimelech were affected was not because of Abraham's reasoning and or of Sarah' who didn't say anything to preserve Abraham alive, but rather, they, being people who clearly didn't believe and or know God, eventually found out when God intervened for Sarah, as well as Abraham, moreover, this only happen when they were either about to touch her and or marry her when she already has husband (the one she calls her brother), in Abimelech's case, God read his heart and sees him as a good man and he spoke to him, the very reason we can see the conclusion to this second sister-wife narrative, and clearly Abimelech was pretty much cool with Abraham at the end, whereas in their conversation, Abraham revealed his intentions and when he and Sarah actual spoke of the whole brother-sister thing, for technically, she is really his sister. Abraham even prayed for Abimelech and Abimelech said he can live anywhere he wants on his land.

So it is a HALF-TRUTH, as some would say.

And now I see you care about some of the conclusion, you shy away from it before and it was asked.

• So a quote: (Genesis 12:10-20) Abram (later called Abraham) is pressured to move to Egypt in order to evade a famine. Because his wife (also his half-sister), Sarai, is very beautiful, Abram asks her to say that she was only his sister lest the Egyptians kill him so that they can take her. On arriving before the Pharaoh, the Egyptians recognise Sarai's beauty, and the Egyptian princes shower Abram with gifts of livestock and servants to gain her hand in marriage. Sarai thus becomes part of "Pharaoh's house", but God sends a plague. Pharaoh restores Sarai to Abram and orders them to leave Egypt with all the possessions Abram had acquired in Egypt.
• Quote: Genesis 20:1-16 narrates the story of Abraham emigrating to the southern region of Gerar, whose king is named Abimelech. Abraham states that Sarah, his wife, is really his sister, leading Abimelech to try to take Sarah as a wife; however, God intervened before Abimelech touched Sarah. Abimelech complains to Abraham, who states that Sarah is his half-sister. Abimelech rebuking Abraham by Wenceslas Hollar. Abimelech asks Abraham, "What has thou done unto us?" Abimelech then restores Sarah to Abraham, and gives him gifts of livestock and servants by way of apology, and also allows Abraham to reside anywhere in Gerar. Abimelech also gives 1000 pieces of silver to Abraham to reprove Sarah by a "covering of the eyes". Abraham then prays for Abimelech and the king and his wife and concubines are able to conceive children; they previously could not.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

4) "hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him", Again, reports told what suffers came on Abraham's "enemy". 

And yet he and Sarah feared those who didn't know God and those who are enemies to their people, who are already know to have done some damage. His people had enemies and his people knows about those whom they never been in contact with. We see the Egyptians, over the years have indeed become enemies of Abraham's people for they feared that his people will surpass them and we already know even in prior to that how brutal the Egyptians were, therefore, it is no question to understand Abraham's fear.

In a sense, it is like being among a room of those who hate you for your race and or color, you know who hates you, but you do not know who if someone in that room will strike at you and or harm you, on the other side of the spectrum, it results in the victim in question to see all men like this, but soon realizing that there are those who are unaware of the struggle and battles the victim faces.

Abraham was not obvious to unknown nations and enemies of his people and of God. If he comes to an alien in region not of his own, he, and his wife already had a plan in motion because he feared for his life for his life is what is a piece to the puzzle in regards to God's Promise, and Sarah, who was with her husband and knows of the Promise, did everything to comply with Abraham, thus keeping him alive, calling him his brother, when really Abe is her half-brother and she is his half-sister.

They are nor reports, they are scriptural passages and or biblical accounts. Yes they find out who God is because both men were about to touch Sarah. Now if God didn't come through and Abraham was discovered, these people, who do not know God, would have had their way with the both of them for they didn't think much of such a people to begin with, perhaps Pharaoh would have been far more brutal to live up to how his people operated.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

5) So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to "misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth." It is done unselfishly; "it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good." Misdirect the "enemy" by hiding the truth is what Abraham have done. He was hiding the truth. And that did harm them. What is so "much good" in to be killed, infertility, terrible plagues because somebody not told you the truth??

Jonathan saved his best friend, David from being killed like a dog in the street by his Father, who would most likely toss David into a shallow grave, and Johnathan will most likely be punished, badly, for hiding his friend, seen as an enemy of his Father.

• Jonathan was the son of Saul, king of Israel, of the Tribe of Benjamin, and David was the son of Jesse of Bethlehem, of the Tribe of Judah, and Jonathan's rival for the crown of Israel's King. This man, who is best friends with and loved him like a brother, saved David by tricking his own Father and helping David flee and avoid death by the hands of Saul,he even drove his Father mad by saying the following: ‘It would be a sin for you to kill David; he has done nothing wrong.’. For if he had not done so, he would have been punished and David would have been killed, dead, by a man who seeks him out like a wild animal. No David, No Jesus being born in Bethlehem, no one to stick on his Throne and the Prophets who spoke to David would have been made out to be lairs of what the Seed is all about.
• Rebhab the Prostitute, should she had spoken the truth with the guards sent by the King of Jericho, she would have been killed alongside the spies, and her WHOLE household would have been killed, granted she wanted to save herself and her family because they believed in the God of Israel, the only reason she helped the spies, thus having lied to the guards who didn't think much of her because she was just a prostitute. The situation would be far worse because The King of Jericho, who had killed the spies if Rehab complied, would have had the upperhand on Joshua and the HEREM (חרם) would have been on not the King's side, but Joshua's side, for no spy was able to give any information because the spies were already dead, alongside Rehab and her family.
• The situation could have been another way, but still equality as bad whereas spies were never sent, and when the Battle of Jericho began it would have ended differently, but this time no red cord hanging out the window because Rehab have been indirectly slain with her family in the city, thus resulting in those who were for God, killing those who were also for God, again, for Rehab believed in the God of Israel, heard of him and what he has done and wanted to to serve him, and wanted her whole family to be saved also, but again, no spies, she ends up slain, and even if the spies came and she didn't lie, she would have been slain alongside the spies, perhaps brutally too for spies were not the thing that a King likes.
• Now we have Apostle Paul, he speaks of being obedient to the government and authorities, which is indeed what we must do. But he also spoke of any of whom of these two who puts God's Purpose and Will, be it preaching the gospel, serving, reading the Bible, and or other, you are to take action, thus paves way for Civil Disobedience, and Paul was very concise in this action and it's justification, for Paul would turn on a power in order to defend God's word and truth and what his Son, Jesus had professed, and he stood firm til death in this, the very reason why the practice is done today regarding Spiritual Warfare.

Therefore it is not a surprise to see such a thing happen.

The list goes on and on and on, and a majority among the list is women of the Bible. Such as Miriam, Deborah, Jael, Ester, and look, we also have Sarah, among this group of God fearing women and dozens more, so you are kind of outmatched by the likes of women, Sostar.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

6) "they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy." Abraham used tactic to reveal information that makes confusion in "enemy" lines. With result that "harm people" whose hospitality he ask for. 

Him being alive resulted in Issac being alive, down the road, we have David being alive, to the days of Mary being alive, and oh look- The Birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem.

The fact you before mention Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem but have issue with Abraham's actions shows you contradict your own self, let alone show you have flaws and a confusion of things.

Take out Abraham and that path to Jesus is gone and God's promise would be both the first and the last Promise broken.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

7) "Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies."  

When it comes to protecting anything pertaining to God, Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is most undoubtedly, justified and always and will ever be as so until the End Times lead into Great Tribulations into the God's Day of Judgement, H'Armageddon. During a time of peace no man would be able to and or commit to threatening their authority on to God's actual authority within his purpose and will, by means of the one he placed as King of HIS Kingdom, and most likely when the specter is given back, no one would be able to box with God at that point - That is a battle not only you cannot win, but neigh infinity impossible to even commit.

So I do the same as Apostle Paul had done.

I agree with Paul, but do you agree with him also?

• There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
• No unbelief made him [Abraham] waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,

I agree with Jesus, do you?

They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I can see this line between , and you Mr Merchant, as patron, protector of WTJWORG teaching and techniques on this issue, try to convince me how lie and line is somewhere else. No, this time you are in position to stand for a distorted attitude on what is a lie and what is the true. 

I concur, you can't see any line because you stopped at saying Abraham lied 2 times boom, you're done, but never spoke of what took place afterwards, only when it was mentioned to you, you briefly speak on the matter, you didn't even acknowledge of what God told the ruler of Gerar for God read his heart, and in the end, God restored his people. You have no idea of the sister-wife narratives of Genesis, that happen 3 times, mind you, and you do not know that Jesus Christ himself being on the earth was the result of Abraham's actions, and Abraham has been spoke of very highly for why else and where else to you think the phrase "The God of Abraham, and of Issac, and of/or Jacob (Israel)" came from? We don't have to stop at Jesus either, for if Abraham died, no 12 Tribes, Israel would not have existed and so will Jerusalem, not there.

You have to be really, really weak in biblical understanding to not see the actions of a man and his wife and what it actually led to in Bethlehem and what is soon to come, and you continue to do everything in your power to shift and evade and try to go around as to what is being said.

And here we go with WT this and that, the sister-wife narrative has been talked about for years, Sostar, everyone knows it and it is not a surprise the JWs know it too, and we also have Muslims and Jews, even Samaritans who know this account because they know the Tanakh very well and perhaps more compared to you, Sostar, and they will say the same thing when it comes to Abraham and Sarah, which ironically, can be found by searching, it is not that hard, if you can find a publication from the WT as if it was a breeze in the wind, what is stopping you from looking into the sister-wife narrative in the Bible committed by the family of Abraham? Perhaps fear of being in the wrong, as usual and sudden things go missing without  trace. For if you have forgotten, you tend to have a such a view on lies, but we cannot forget what you had said a while back which was indeed a lie, just a reminder. Wouldn't it put you in a hypocritical light but in contradiction to what is professed by you here in regards to Abraham's account? But has for the topic had hand, and knowing of their origin, Restorationist are NOT inspired nor have they EVER claimed to be inspired; even predating the Great Awakening, such claims are unfounded and alien to the world of Christian history.

My only concern is truth and being close to the truth, and nothing but the truth, and profess it (said this several times to you before). I even told you before, I am well aware of others who either speak of and or attempt to be close to what is true and those far from it, as well as being against those who teach the accursed (as far as anyone can see I detest the Trinity because it is unbiblical, far more than my dislike of the KJV/TR/1245/JC), anything that is not of the Early Church, but rather, of the mainstream, of this I refute and I am against it, but should anyone speak of deceit and or a lie regarding the Early Church and or some Christology be of of Christendom and or Islam (my only reasons is because of racist, and haters on those that have nothing to do with terror), expect to get a critical answer, as is done with the account of Abraham and his situation.

Distorted attitude? That is unfounded. I am serious, strict, have some odd way of speaking, tends to briefly make remarks,at times in Ye Ol English (Anglo-Saxon-like), a truth seeker be it religious and or other, low-key humorous, knowledgeable and concerning, as well as collected, I do not distort anything, nor do I speak on behalf of man's understanding on a variety of things, nor do I profess deceit because even my own culture detests/HATES deceits and ill actions of men, that Cultural Shield (bouclier culturel/Boukliye Kiltirèl) is unbreakable and upheld very strongly, even by infants, therefore, you can't do as much (why I like the fact that I am and will always be a true islander at heart). Once again, Srecko Sostar, I like to see you prove this claim vs. the amount of evidence, supporting evidence, practices and the like, even regarding this account on Abraham's behalf, of which can and will be used against you with a strong case of hermeneutics, for such will be to much for you to the point that even Watchtower publications cannot save you out of the dark box you put yourself in and that would be quite the ignoble - on your part.

That being said, I side with Abraham's decision, for he did what he did for reasons that are known and understood. He did so in order to persevere not only his life, but God's Promise of which will come by means of Abraham's own seed and the prophet whom everyone awaits - Lord Jesus Christ for HE is that Seed and the Heirs are part of this Seed, both being of the Spiritual House, both under the New Covenant, both of Spiritual Israel, both of Heavenly Jerusalem. You keep yourself closed from what comes from one man, and should that one man have died for not being subjected to Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience, his wife who also did this for she is seen as a Hero by women today who read the Bible, the things mention would have been there to begin with.

I will put this example for and you below,  and in this example you are in a position of which pertains to your own understanding when others around you commit Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience that is somewhat in similar fashion of that which was expressed by others in scripture in a position of when is Spiritual Warfare - Justified, when in a position to commit Civil Disobedience - Justified, and as usual, you will not answer, so I will answer what will be in display below for you - it will not be in your favor if we are to include your understanding of what Abraham and many others, have done:

Quote

If you had only the Bible in your house and you know you can be killed for it, and people come for the Bible, the only one you have and the only one in you country, for they want to destroy it, thus removing the Bible entirely from a whole country,a whole nation, and they began to sweep the homes and one by one families end up killed, arrested and some who do not have anything to do with God get to live another day, some who know God disowns him, self-excommunicated themselves of him.

And now they come to your home. Will you preserve God's Word that is the Bible from those who seek to destroy it? Or will you confess that you have the Bible hidden within the floor boards of your home specifically in bird decorated office, knowing very well that not only they will purge that only Bible existing in that nation of which you live in, but they will kill you and your household because you had that Bible hidden inside, and because of that book death looms on your back.

What do you expect will happen, now they are searching your home? Your family will go about Spiritual Warfare in order to defend the Bible's location, not giving any ideas or a clue to the people sent to destroy it, they will say they do not have it as well as other things, thus saving their own lives and the Bible itself for without it they have no Words of which allows them to continue learning of God, at the same time, they enact Civil Disobedience, which is justified in this situation, to protect themselves and the Bible even further. But surely, by your logic, you, believing in your own cloud-filled opinion of things, revealed the Bible to these people when others in your home did the opposite of what you did. Your actions got you and all in your household lined up outside in front your home, on their knees and bounded and blind folded, at this point you know exactly what will happen and the Bible itself was destroy by means of fire caused to your home by those who were successful in their endeavors.

The nation continues on, no Bible, or talk of God, and as for you, you are no more because although your family did knew when Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is justified, mainly in a dark era of a time that befell such a nation (it will come in some form one day), you didn't adhere to such a thing, and your actions befell the perishing of not just yourself, but of others.

In the example above, the family clearly took the position of Abraham, Jonathan, Sarah and Rehab in order to protect the last Bible in that country, you on the other hand, in this example, jeopardized everything, for if you complied with your own household, in a Dark Era of a time would have actually learn of who God is in secret, about his Kingdom, about his Son, everything while enemies loom to seek to destroy every trace and every word that connections to the Bible. But you do not see, and therefore you yield among your own understanding, and the end result. I can tell you this much, real tribulations are nothing compared to this example and will be far worse.

So in short, Abraham and the others, were in the right here.

Suicide is indeed a problem, and this guy off'd himself pretty young. It is a shame, but regardless of any man, taking one's own life in the eyes of people who deal with this stuff, some who had witnessed people who taken their lives, it is pretty insane an every day a battle with inner demons is lost because of suicide.

Someone's not handling food properly, and the place is hyped up by many. There is a lot of other good places but this place has a more crazier line than a Starbucks.