Space Merchant

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

HOW is possible that named things as war, sickness, death.... you put under main title "the things that are products of Satan are the exploitation of man’s imperfection. There is ......"

1. Is there war, sickness, death.... because of man's imperfection?

2. Is war, sickness, death.... products of Satan''s exploitation of man's imperfection?

3. Is war, sickness, death .... existing because of satan's influence?

Are you serious? If you are forgetting we are imperfect because of what our first father and mother had done, they were disobedient and it is known as to who played a part in their disobedience. Stuff like this came about because of it, hence why we all inherit sin,men has killed, men has caused problems and or oppress other men, men have corrupted other men, the list goes on.

So I ask you to prove that it is my understanding vs. the Bible, something of which cannot be done because you will simply make claim to the same thing.

• [1] War, sickness and Death came about due to our inheritance of Sin, for in the days before Adam and Eve disobeyed God such things was unheard of and did not exist. Stuff like this came about afterwards, we see a spike in violence, people being sick and succumbing to death. Adam and Eve were not subjected to death but them eating from the Tree of Knowledge resulted in such, it also resulted in God putting to Cherubs/Angels to guard the Tree of Life prior to kicking Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, and from there they had to make use of cultivating the earth itself and eventually grow old and die off from natural causes, and the children suffer the same faith, thus it can be said that man is corruptible/moral. At the start of it all, the cause for man to dwell in imperfection was Satan the Devil, when he influenced Eve about the Tree God did not allow them to eat from, eventually she got Adam on board and Adam followed because he really loved Eve.
• [2] It is, mainly if you get the gist of what is said in point one. Man is imperfect and we only became imperfect and inherit sin for an obvious reason, thus we are born sinners no matter how you paint it. Satan can influence man to do things that is not of any good, some who are influenced, do so knowingly. This also goes for other sons of God also, who later became demons.
• [3] Technically already address and is very evident. What do you think imperfection means?

26 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Who making wars? People or ....1.man's imperfection; 2.Satan''s exploitation of man's imperfection; 3.satan's influence ??  would it be a war if people were perfect ??? Does perfection of people is guarantee how wars would never be possible? 

People make wars and people are imperfect and go into war for ill desires. Example of what we see today is Israel, for they do not want Iran to go into Syria and will do vile things to provoke war in order to do so, hence the false flags months ago. Satan has exploited man because they are imperfect, especially those who are up to no good.

Buddy if we are perfect, that would be great, but all men are imperfect, we inherit what Adam and Eve had succumb to, for we had been imperfect since the day they were expelled from the Garden.

My only question to you is, did you not read the Hebrew Old Testament???

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your thoughts answer on your expectation: 

-"..the things that are products of Satan are the exploitation of man’s imperfection."

And yet we see play out in the Bible that because of man's imperfection Satan's influence is evident. Example is the Jews who were clearly included by Satan as seen in both John 8 and 10. So explain how they are my thoughts when the Bible speaks of such, mainly in terms of cross-references of corruptible man?

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

-"That being said, it is no question that Satan’s influence on people and their actions is ever so evident,.."

Which is indeed truth, as seen in the Bible. Man commits acts of lawlessness and being accepting of brazen conduct and many other things.

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If God inspired human for good deeds, i am sure you believe in this premise, then satan "influence", your word "influence", or bad inspiration on people is quite logical reasoning how he, devil is very possible source of why human invented and using money. But as i said, this is my understanding  on my way of reading Bible.

Yes, God inspires the good works and indeed of his people, there is no question about that, this goes for good conduct and of what God approves in all goodness. But what you fail to see even among good folk, there are bad people also who do vile things, some of which who do these things knowingly, thus being of influence of the devil and not of God. Like I said about in the John, the Jews who knew the Law being influenced by Satan who is their Father, hence why the confrontation with Jesus as seen in John 10 turned out the way they did - this is but one of many examples. So explain to me how my word "influence" is of my own understanding when clearly we see the Bible speaks of what I have mention? 

That is a weak remark, bad influence the cause of people creating money in the first place? So what is your say on God's approval of money granted that you make the claim that you cannot prove money is a product of Satan? Perhaps you see the Widow of whom Jesus gave praise to influenced by Satan because she had a few pieces of money to put in a Treasury Chest? Or perhaps Jesus himself who gave moneybags to his followers, we know what happen with one moneybag with someone who was wicked out among the 12 for not realizing a lover a money was a thief to begin with?

Well you are going to have to read the Bible for context and more understanding because the based logic you are applying to scripture is somewhat lacking and or utter confusion.

If we are to agree with you and say money is a product of Satan, why must we also come to contradiction of Jesus, his followers and or the likes of others? Before money there was the bartering system, perhaps that being the predecessor of money to be of Satan as well?

You clearly ignored what was addressed in page 2.

To be short and sweet: Money is a currency to be used to provide and care, it can be used for good things in a way of God's approval, on the other side of the spectrum, there are lovers of money, who commit acts of lawless acts, and I will quote you "unrighteous riches". You cannot point 2 groups as being evil for using money when only one side is clearly the culprit.

Therefore, it can be said here that the response you made that the Bible indicates money is a product of Satan is utterly false. If the Bible makes an indication, you would have brought it up, for it was that easy to bring up Matthew 17:24 (Matthew 17:24-27  to understand full context of passage and understanding of Jewish Law), by verse only, surely the exact indication of claim made by you would have been brought up long before - in this case unfounded.

Also if that were the case, you would have known the difference of accepting a truth and or lie, I showed to you that you accepted a lie and you made the correction and removed the post on your own. This goes for my explanation of inspired and uninspired text I said to you before and the whole religious rights protection discussion, and other things. Better to know and do the research than accept a conspiracy of what others have told you.

What is also missed is the fact no mention of what Jesus said in this verse, Mark 12:17.

Other than that, I will not hold an unfounded claim against you, just as I have with the Glasgow remark you made to which you removed here and the old Dec. 2017 topic, but remember, even though you removed it, it is still there.

That being said because with you things tend to derail into other things, in regards to Trust and Beneficiaries, there prove of a beneficiary, in this regard, The Watchtower, being the owner of a Trust, Riley Trust, when the only owner itself is the one mention, the person and or entity that has chosen the Watchtower as a beneficiary. It is also known that said trust make donations to such groups who are seen as Beneficiaries, therefore, donations to such are made. It is also known as to what the Riley Trust has been involved in, majority of it being of gas and oil products with money set aside to donate to a Beneficiary of their choosing.

Plus it is known that the Riley Trust is in connection with section Nonprofit Tax Code 501 (c) (3).

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, what in JW theology exist that you do not support?

You clearly didn't get what I have stated, but it is no surprise you are shifting things around, as seen in recent responses.

I said the following: No, but I am very well aware of their Christology and the only reason I speak of them is because there is many misconceptions and things said of them that can and will be addressed

Christology is the field of study within Christian theology itself, which is primarily concerned with the ontology and person of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels Accounts and the Epistles shown in the Greek the New Testament. The ontology and person of Jesus in conjunction with his relationship with that of God the Father. Christology is concerned with the details of Jesus' ministry, his acts and teachings, to arrive at a clearer understanding of who he is in his person, and his role in salvation. The views of Paul the Apostle provided a major component of the Christology of the Apostolic Age. To some extend at times the levels reach to based Apostolic Christology. This also connects with Exegesis and Hermeneutics in regards to Theological studies of both scripture and history of said text.

Such also falls in line with the study of religion, their theology, practices, beliefs in regards to the teachings and or the Church, of which the foundation itself is the Christ.

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, I studied Restorationism and Non-Trinitarianism among most, excluding my studies on Judaism, Islam, and a list of others that are not part of the Abrahamic faiths and for various reasons I have done this for nearly 2 decades despite me myself being a Non-Trinitarian Christain, for in how I was brought up is to understand where people are coming from and their conclusions. The Jehovah's Witnesses at their core are Restorationism, in a sense, primitive Christianity that has nothing to do  with mainstream Christianity that is not applying what the early church has done, but of what we see as the end result of the Council itself. This is a known fact even before they became Bible Students because over the centuries there have been Restorationist before the Movement was even executed. Such is traced by tot the early church and the Apostolic Age.

Therefore, those who adhere to the early church and its teachings and practices, I tend to have a focused study of them, and knowing what I know, people will slander and or make lies of such in order to push an accrused agenda, therefore the reason I o what I do.

If someone says a Sunni or a Shia teaches that killing is necessary for salvation, I will refute. If someone says Jesus is God, I will refute. If someone says a JW has guns kept in a church and has poisons ready to use on other JWs, I will refute. If someone says a faith got money from a sporting event, I will refute. If someone says that our Church Father's believed in something else other than the truth itself, I will refute. If someone tries to justify false and or forged bible verses that were not in the original manuscripts and or not in respects to the Strong's, I will refute. In the end it is not about agreeing and or disagreeing, it is about correcting the wrongs and speaking up in the face of misconceptions.

And at times my explanations could be long, and the person you have to thank for that can be seen in the Bible Discussion part of the forum since the both of use were speaking of Church Fathers and about the word Worship.

Out of among many things, the only plague I am in a total crusade against is mainstream Christendom and New Agers, both of which who have dismantled what the first church has established. Those who make a defense on what is seen as accursed, thus a prompt application of Galatians 1:1-11 is due. I am but one person, but since the craziness that took place mid 2015 and onward, people, like me, will refute the accursed and correct the lies and or wrongs people say of others the biggest enemy of them all it Babylon itself, which is clearly in the works since the early 2000s, not counting the whole 1920s Bailey thing for the gathering of religious leaders have not begun until the early 2000s. That being said, I am able to see clearly who is who, who is of Babylon, ho is not, who can easily be mislead by her, who is on the fence and or confused, and most of the time, the unaware ones are the one easily taken, thus my stance is clear and it is a diamond based defense because I am able to prepare myself for what is to come, this also goes in conjunction with my 100% neutrality to any man who attempts to and or is close to doing the same as the early church.

And it is clear to me you yourself is not aware of the present danger of things, mainly to how you based on your logic into the text rather than what the bible professes.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

we both! :)))

please help me to see, by your thoughts, is there something in this World that IS devil product? proved by Bible, because this is point you like to highlight - Bible verses. Thanks.

No, only one of us is in the right, and you should be aware by now I do not rely on my own thoughts and reasoning, as you are doing, I rely on biblical understanding of context and very critical hermeneutics and or exegesis, I rely on historical facts and information of which the early Church followed that derive from the Bible itself, outside of the Bible, I rely on actual Christology of the Abrahamic faiths and understanding of where they come from and capable of distinguishing the truth and the accursed, as with what is true and what is false, and it should occur to you by now of how I am, granted of where I originated from since I already told you, they are quite the strict one among us also.

Now, the things that are products of Satan are the exploitation of manÂ’s imperfection. There is war, sickness, death, and all kinds of violence. SatanÂ’s influence is also responsible for the twisting of biblical teachings and or doctrines that is not of early church origin, the teaching that Jesus is God or the fact God suddenly is in full acceptance of what Molech worshippers practice. Satan has also tampered the scriptures in the past, 16^th century, since the attempt failed in the 4^th century, but later on, present day, we have people justifying the uninspired, saying Jesus saved an Adulterous woman is truth, to say the drinking of poison and not dying is truth when in reality, none of these passages originates from the oldest source that is the Septuagint. People can be corrupt, and or corrupt others by means of influence and or action, such ones are also being open and accepting brazen conduct, even to the point we now have publications in the shops that teach children that laying with someone of the same sex is okay, even worse, they teach young children that Sodomy is okay and how to do it. Man being driven to act out their impulses and or ill desire be it the killing, torture, abuse of others both young and old, in addition to taking advantage of those in order to get what they want.

Every single day, this world continues to take a shovel and dig it’s grave even deeper, but among the Utopia of which Satan is in control of, there are good people who do their best to stay away from these things, those who are unaware are also do their best to stay away from trends that promote ill intent and or practices, such ones end up being taught that such things are taking place  in the world, by those who are influenced by Satan, is clearly something they should not be a part of. On the other side of the spectrum you have the occult. Now this is far more sinister outside of the US for there are parts of the world where Satan’s sole followers being demons can influence people, parts of the Caribbean it is said that evil spirits are able to manifest in some way, shape or form, and knowing my people and the culture, this is indeed true, and a Christian Youth Club paid for that only to escape being alive. From my experience and knowledge of such as well as being an islander, I and others know things that could be kept in the dark because it is deemed way too unreal.

That being said, it is no question that SatanÂ’s influence on people and their actions is ever so evident, but a day will come where he will be knocked off his throne that is the world and his influence will cease for good.

Other than that, I still await on your response to your claim: "Because money is a product of Satan has the Bible indicates." ~ Srecko Sostar (July 18, 2018)

Well, that remains to be seen. I can say right now that any translation can be used, but regardless, such information is not found, to change the matter into saying Satan is the god of this world, has nothing to do with the claim of your saying that money is a product of Satan. I call that hypocritical because you clearly see others in the Bible using money and the fact that Free Will Offering and voluntary donations by means of currency and or product is seen in both the Old and New Testament. You also see the fact of how the major temple in question, The Temple of Jerusalem operates regarding money donations vs. that of the practices of Pharisees, granted how large the temple is, Pharisees are around the vicinity at the time. You haven’t proven anything by using another verse to evade the first claim.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I do not see here that Jesus support economic and money system of Jew, Greek or Roman people. He was not willing to support that.

That is because you truly do not understand what is being said, I chose this fact specifically which includes those verses. Context is key, understanding of passages is crucial.

Matthew 23:23 tells us that in JesusÂ’ day, the actions of The Pharisees compared to those who do not do the same thing as they have done. Because they themselves assume to be doing the GodÂ’s work when they gave a tenth of all that they had (10%), they are deemed hypocrites because showed a total disregard of the Law, putting into application that is not their own. It is known as to what the Pharisees were doing, hence the call out by Jesus, the Christians themselves of that day did not do this, as I said before, the tithe does not apply to Christians at all, for the tithe was a practice solely done by the Levites, excluding the people of AbrahamÂ’s day. This verse also paints a very good example what is stated in that fact that is is very obvious that the Pharisees, even scribes, were enemies to the gospel that Jesus teaches.

Mark 12:41-44 – In this passage, Jesus is located, specifically, at the Temple of Jerusalem, the same Temple as to where he was speaking with and teaching the people. But the focus will be on this passage (which is also equal to the Luke’s witnesses as seen in the Gospel of Luke 21:1-4), the passages are identified as The Widow’s Mite (The Widow's Offering).

Jesus himself goes to where they make offerings, donations of money to the Temple (Temple of Jerusalem) as to what he sat next down to was the Treasury Chest/Boxes (also known as Treasury Chambers), and there we see a widow making an offering to which Jesus gave her praise because she has donated as seen in verse 42, that what the widow has donated is far larger than the donations made by the rich and we can see the continuation of Jesus’ response in verses 43 and 44. The Widow gives two lepta, copper coins, the smallest amount at that time. Jesus contrasts her offering as the greater sacrifice because it is all she had, as opposed to the rich persons who only gave what was convenient. Her total sacrifice foreshadows Jesus' total sacrifice of his life via crucifixion. We also find out that Jesus even makes a response to those who speak of how expensive the Temple looks, granted of what was integrated within the vast temple itself , he also makes mention that a day will come where the temple itself, if reading the passage in the gospel of Luke (referencing Luke 19:44). Those who spoke of how expensive the temple was then questioned him, and here we see Jesus speak of what is to happen, what is to come.

I am sure you are aware of what the First Temple, the Second Temple and the Third Temple is, as well as Jesus equaling such to the of another Temple – His body, The Body of Christ.

The Temple of Jerusalem had Treasury Chests. In the ancient history of the Jews, it is said say that these chests and boxes, or receptacles (Treasury Chambers), were in the shape of and/or like horns or trumpets with small openings at the top of it. People donated various donations in them, pieces of coin, copper, etc.. The total amount of Treasury boxes found in such Temples amount to 13 around the walls of the court itself. Among the 13, it’s believed that the temple contained a primary treasury chest/box where the money donations from all other the treasury chests was brought, being placed in the primary one. Granted on how big the Temple of Jerusalem was, it is no surprise that they would have this many. It is very obvious as to what they use the money for, to care for the temple itself, its people, feeding the poor and put into work of the gospel is being spread on to the people, for those who teach travel and do not travel empty handed. It should also occur to us that Jesus never hinted at His needs. Money that was given to Jesus and His disciples was held for the purposes already made known in the last sentence.

Luke 8:1-3 – Granted that in some cases, the disciples had to have some form of currency, as well as food when traveling so this alone speaks for itself. Other times they had nothing at all, mainly when sent out in twos when they had nothing, no money, food, sandals, etc. (Luke 22:35-38). Especially later on in the ministry of spreading the gospel. It is also mentioned that such ones who travel with Jesus, and even Jesus himself is shown great hospitality. Clearly going from city to city, village to village was exhausting at times and you even read that even Jesus and his disciples at times have to rest, eat, replace worn sandals for new ones, etc. Money and food pouches were also carried around with them, Jesus is said to have given such to his followers who were traveling such as a knapsack and or moneybag, and it is clear as to where such resources originated from.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This verse "proving" my view and understanding on Jesus act: -------------- “But so that we may not offend them, go to the sea, cast a hook, and take the first fish you catch. When you open its mouth, you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for you” and Me.??

The fact that you pulled this from Biblehub and not even bothering to look at the commentary for that verse below, further proves my point. You really do not look into the context of the verse. Also you do realize you can go to the verse in question and just pick from a translation, but rather, in your case, you did a top search and manage to get the Greek - understandable, because even the Greek shows you root words and where such words are use, therefore, being able to pinpoint where the temple tax laws originate from.

The thing is friend, your view and understanding cannot be of your own, it has to be of the Bible and anything pertaining to such. You just made the claim you yield upon solely on your understanding and not of what the passage in the Bible says, that of which is the obvious, was this the same thinking that got you tricked by the whole sporting event thing? For if you understood this passages, you'd make mention of the lesson expressed here. Also remember, when you quote a verse, you provide the location of the verse, otherwise it does not sit well with you for some people.

I can say God is the God of the dead as well and not say where it is in the Bible, people will look at me crazy and or do not get what I am saying. Therefore it is always best to mention the verse, quote it, then try to explain it.

Now, the verse of which you speak (since you didnÂ’t even address the location of that verse) is Matthew 17:27

However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.”

You make another claim and it will be addressed here: Jesus was not voluntary or by obligation participate in paying temple tax.

What you fail to see in this passage is that Matthew 17:24-27 specifically, we read that Jesus told Peter to catch a fish, open its mouth and there he would find money to pay the Temple Tax. Jesus carried no money, as we can already see, hence the early days of his ministry, for JesusÂ’ man base of operation was Capernaum and there is where most of his disciples came from for it is their hometown. He looked to His Father in heaven to supply His needs and we see the Father doing just that.

We see what this passage is says, there are men, religious leaders, who collect Temple Tax and confronted Peter. These men were trying to accuse Jesus for failing to pay taxes, even to the point attempting to prove JesusÂ’ disloyalty to the temple or His violation of the Law.

The Law of the Jews: [The temple tax was required of Jewish males over age 20, and the money was used for the upkeep and maintenance of the temple. In Exodus 30:13–16, God told Moses to collect this tax at the time of the census taken in the wilderness. In 2 Kings 12:5–17 and Nehemiah 10:32–33, it seems the temple tax was paid annually, not just during a census. This half-shekel tax wasn’t a large sum of money, but roughly equivalent to two days’ wages. According to the tractate Shekalim in the Talmud, the temple tax was collected during one of the Jewish festivals: Passover, Pentecost, or Tabernacles.]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jesus was not voluntary or by obligation participate in paying temple tax. His reason for pay tax money was in some sort of strange reason, "to not offend them".

And you have proven yourself to no understand what is being said, let's continue:

They asked Peter as to why his teacher does not pay the two drachmas regarding the Temple Tax.

Now Jesus, back at the house, was already well aware of what has occurred. So instead of just waiting it out for Peter to this matter into conversation, Jesus tells Simon Peter what does he think of whom do the kings of the earth receive duties or head tax from, if either from their sons or from the strangers.

Peter, in response said from the strangers. Jesus, being observant said the sons are tax free. We later see that a fish on a hook with a coin in its mouth for Jesus’ Father is the King of the earth and the One who is worshiped at the temple. He also points out that since the temple was His Father’s House, that he was exempt, therefore, God’s Son is not legally required to pay the Temple Tax because he is clearly part of his Father's House.It should be clear by now as to what Jesus had said long before he was an adult, in his childhood, he made acknoledgment to the House of His Father.

• Luke 2:48-51 - (48) And when his parents saw him, they were astonished. And his mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been searching for you in great distress.” (49) And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?” (50) And they did not understand the saying that he spoke to them. (51) And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

Fast forwarding to his adulthood and early days of his ministry, Jesus goes on to say to him to go to the sea, cast a fishhook, and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth, you will find a silver coin (stater, or tetradrachma) that just happens to be the correct amount for the temple tax. With this silver coin, Simon Peter is to take that and give it to them, the religious men who demanded the temple tax in the first place, not just for Simon Peter alone, but for him also – pretty much Peter paying the tax for the both of them.

The temple tax passage regarding both Peter and Jesus teaches a valuable lesson. Christians are free, but they must sometimes relinquish their rights in order to uphold their witness and not cause others to stumble. True freedom is not serving ourselves but others.

• Galatians 5:13 - For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Even before this chapter, we also learn about JesusÂ’ key thoughts on money, which is presented in the Sermon on the Mount. He says to invest in the life to come (Matthew 6:19-24). We do this through giving, not a set church-tax of ten percent of our income like that of what the Pharisees practice and or the Law of the Levites itself, but with an open heart.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In this verse  he did contrary, he support Jew system and not "Lord's work". And as such, religious institutions aka Jew religion (or some other religious institution today), have to be, was been rejected by him and his followers, at the end of a day (or to the end of century in Romans's  siege and destruction of Jerusalem).

1.What is legitimate use of money? (by capitalist view, by socialist view, by particular religious institution view......?)

2.And would you, as beneficiary, accept money, as donation or in other forms, without knowledge and proves how donor/donors made their multiplication of money in legitimate using, way?

This just shows you clearly do not understand the fact that has been quoted

• [1] The legitimate use of money is by means of aiding in the doings of the Temple. The Jews were in application of a Law that Christians were not suppose to follow, thus the very reason as to why Jesus called them hypocrites. If you missed that point, you clearly did not understand as to why this fact points to this passage.

 

• [2] I gave you lists to what a Beneficiary is in description and information on such, it would seem you have not even read as to what such information even the investors have put out.

Perhaps this time I will quote it clearly for you:

Quote

What is a 'Beneficiary'

A beneficiary is any person who gains an advantage and/or profits from something. In the financial world, a beneficiary typically refers to someone who is eligible to receive distributions from a trust, will or life insurance policy. Beneficiaries are either named specifically in these documents or have met the stipulations that make them eligible for whatever distribution is specified.

BREAKING DOWN 'Beneficiary'

Typically, any person or entity can be named a beneficiary of a trust, will or life insurance policy, and the one distributing the funds, or the benefactor , can put various stipulations on the disbursement of funds, such as the beneficiary attaining a certain age or being married. There can also be tax consequences to the beneficiary. For example, while the principal of most life insurance policies is not taxed, the accrued interest might be taxed.

Beneficiary of Qualified Accounts

Qualified retirement plans, like a 401(k) or IRA, give the ability of the account holder to designate a beneficiary. Upon the qualified plan holder’s passing, a spousal beneficiary may be able to roll the proceeds into his own IRA. If the beneficiary is a not the spouse, there are three different options for distribution. The first is to take a lump-sum distribution, which makes the entire amount taxable at the beneficiary’s ordinary income level. The second is to establish an inherited IRA and withdraw an annual amount based on the life expectancy of the beneficiary, also known as a stretch IRA. The third option is to withdraw the funds at any time within five years of the original account owner’s date of death.

In the event the beneficiary is either an estate or a trust, the distribution rules are more limited. The stretch option is no longer available and only the lump-sum and five-year rule options are available. Any proceeds left to the estate also make it subject to probate.

A spousal beneficiary of a Roth IRA is also allowed to roll over the inherited proceeds into his own Roth IRA. For a non-spousal beneficiary, the distribution options mirror the same as inheriting a traditional IRA. The only difference is Roth IRA distributions are not subject to taxation.

Beneficiary of Life Insurance

Life insurance proceeds are considered tax-free to the beneficiary and are not reported as gross income. However, any interest received or accrued is considered taxable and is reported like any other interest received.

Beneficiary of a Nonqualified Annuity

Nonqualified annuities are considered tax-deferred investment vehicles that allow the owners to designate a beneficiary. Upon the death of the owner, the beneficiary may be liable for any taxes on the death benefit. Unlike life insurance, annuity death benefits are taxed as ordinary income on any gains above the original investment amount. For example, if the original account owner purchased an annuity for $100,000 and then passed away when the value was worth $150,000, the gain of $50,000 is taxed as ordinary income to the beneficiary.

Also your remark on Jews of today, be it Judaism based denomination is is very broken. I have knowledge in that field also, but the focus is solely on Fearon, Entities of Trust and funds with said owners and the like.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

(Do you have interest to know is such money made in way that no one was damaged?)?

Granted how a beneficiary at times is unaware of what people do with a trust and or fund, things of such is evident, only the owner knows very well of what they do with their money, not the ones they donated to. Which was the case with all facts pointing to the Riley Trust where it is revealed of who the real owner is.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How many people working for one dollar per day or less, for few cents, in one part of a world??? And in different part of the world  other people buy cheap products because of such system? And what is LEGITIMATE in that? Only laws that was product of injustice.

Nowhere have I stated that any working man or woman is one part of the world. Being part of the world requires the intake of Satan's influence itself that contributes to lawless acts and total disrespect to God's Law and the practices of the 1st century church.

As for the cheap product remark, like I said before about lawless acts, how did you miss that one?

That LEGITIMATE is the fact of how the money via donations is being used by the Temple of Jerusalem of where Jesus himself had taught. The practices of how money is handle and or used being vastly different from the hypocrites known as Pharisees and the Scribes. But clearly you do not understand a shred of what the passage is conveying, thus prompt your confusion of said massages and I chose them on purpose just to see if you understood it or not, but luckily you have someone such as myself to explain it for you, ALSO the fact that you use Biblehub, that alone could explain it to you by the number of commentaries expressed on that specific passage alone.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

AND ALL THIS WAS IN DOMAIN OF WHO OWNS THE MONEY :)))))))

Not really because in the original discussion was regarding who is the owner of what said money originates from. The claim by Fearon and his supports makes mention of Watchtower owning said entities (spreading of conspiracy) when facts and information points to them solely being a beneficiary, not the actual owner. As well a bit of Pearl's exegesis on using passages of the Bible, being used to justify a conspiracy that is found out to be 100% false. The owner in question, being Ms. Riley herself, chose to donate the amount of money to the religious group, secondary connections to Riley have donated money to other religious groups, since such were listed in connection with said owner and not the beneficiary.

Trying to make claim that the faith is an owner of said trust and or fund or the idea that somehow the faith is a sponsor and racks in money from a sporting event, which has proven to also be false, is merely secondary.

This also goes with your claims. You try to equal a Business Number and ID via links when if one links, it points to a Registry of parties added into the database and said database is solely in Australia and not globally as you allude to. In fact, there are registries out there that bear the same structural database as others, perhaps some far better than others, example would be Barclay's.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I do not care, at the end, is that devil's money or people's money. It is injustice! This is all about injustice, greedy, lies, manipulation ... 

I guess according to you it is an injustice that somehow the Devil's money allows you to be on the internet, for you make the based logic that money is a product of the devil when the bible does not say so, only you have. If we are to apply your logic on how you view things based on man's understanding of which you make application of.

Why are you using the internet, if everything in this world is of Satan, including the ISP provider, thus giving you access to the internet? The internet is of the devil, no?

Injustice? Hypocritical? Or perhaps the birds that fly near your home somehow surpassed human intellect and manage to provide you said internet on their own over than of what man has brought forth?

You fail to also see the fact that some things we use, buy and sell can be a blessing and or a curse at times, example the internet, one can read the Bible over the internet while someone else shops online, another can be looking to learn a math and or vocabulary problem for school, another guy who plays video games over the internet and lastly you have the type of persons who use the internet to seek out and divulge him in brazen practices, others who use the internet for fornication while some use said internet for crime, most of us are no stranger to what the dark web is. This equals to that of money itself, as with other things, so it is absurd to say money is a product of Satan, moreover, you have defeated your own purpose to claim in regards of those who are wealth and or not wealth on parts of the world.

You really have to think for yourself and look at what you are saying and what you are trying to say. Because right now all I see is a confused man, I really do not see how you got duped into the whole Glasgow thing and for that is shows.

Other than that, the information I provided from the bible in page 2 is accurate on all things money,

since the use of money by Jesus and his disciples was already expressed here on page 3. Perhaps this time you apply context instead doing otherwise.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.

I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))

 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4

No, but I am very well aware of their Christology an the only reason I speak of them is because there is many misconceptions and things said of them that can and will be addressed. Example would be the whole Afterlife thing when the Bible indicates who is among the first fruits, with Jesus being the first, another example is regarding the New Covenant itself. And surely if someone says JW have guns and poisons under their churches, that has to be called out, the same goes for mutual funds and trusts. The focus is to refute falsehood, and nothing but that, as well as what is accursed, and I believe I explain to you of what community I originate from.

Other than that I have been studying the Abrahamic Religions and Islam for over a decade now, but the focus is more on Christianity, since I was brought up as a Christian to begin with. So it is no surprise if someone is making claims that do not bear any fruit, a response by means of fact, information and sources will be made, mainly when it comes to those who do not understand of how a Christian minority that is Restrationist operate - for it is no surprise to any man of who those not following the mainstream Christendom operates.

What you have posted is a charitable status of the Watchtower, their history as of said status, number, members involved as well as a list of annual reports.

Again I ask you, how are they part of this world? I have already made mention before of tax returns in Charitable trust and how the information has been twisted by those who speak of conspiracy. Plus you only brought up information solely held in the Australia location, surely you'd actually pinpoint an actual status of said group that is not a charitable status and or non-profit.

I do admire the attempt though, but again, it sheds no resolve to the foundation of which you attempt to express.

NOTE: I also like to point out that all persons and or groups in that Australian Registry is refereed to as Business Name with a Code to represent and ID such ones. It helps the Aussies to keep track of persons, institutions, groups and organizations in an orderly and organized fashion, perhaps even numerically so it is easier to bring up in some cases.

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sadly, WE ALL are hypocritical... in this way or another, more or less. :))

So do birds really pay for your internet connection?As well as the place of your dwelling? I stated hypocritical because it has been said by you that money is a product of Satan, which is utterly false. I countered the response by saying money is used to provide and care, thus being used in a light accepted to God, but there are those who actually use the money for unrighteous things, such ones are lovers of money and thus making money master over them than God, what did you not get in the accurate response made to a claim you made?

Therefore, I can say nowhere in the Bible does it say that Money is a product of Satan, this is why I advise you to really read on the issue of money and it's usage in the Bible, otherwise you will confuse yourself in your own response.

All of us have some form of income, this includes you, me and everyone on this forum, some either independent or dependent on guardians, parents and or relatives. Money is used to support and care and unlike lovers of money, we do not do wild things to receive it, for we are hard workers of it, God knows of those who work to receive by means of their hands. Any man who commits to lawless acts in regard to money it is certain these people who partake in unrighteous riches will be dealt with.

But I do not see anywhere also in the bible that free will offering in order to further the Great Commission is consider a lawless act.

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

conclusion was derived from verse that claim how "satan is god of this world". If so, money is his invention. Adam and Eve have not money in their world to which JHVH was god. By that JHVH not produce money.... but fruits from a tree. :)) 

But you yourself have stated money is a product of Satan and that the bible indicates as such, need I quote you again? You also missed the point of God's approval of how we use said currency, I provided several verses already.

So who is telling the truth, me who says the Bible makes no indication that money is the product of Satan or you, who says the Bible indicates money is a product of Satan?

Clearly I have provided enough bible verses especially the 2 primarily ones that further proves my point.

Yes, Satan is the god of this world, this I green with you on this elementary fact, but to say Satan invented money is hypocritical, because [1] you never provided a single verse of which money is a product of Satan and [2] You ignore the fact that all men, even Jesus and his followers in that day and age had a use of currency, even before that one of the primary use of currency were pieces of gold and silver.

Of course Adam and Eve didn't have money, they were parents first parents, our first human mother and father. They did practice some form of bartering though and onward currency became a thing.

I suggest you learn more about it because it would seem you are attempting to confuse things and or not understanding well of what is being said: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2016/03/07/what-did-they-use-for-money-in-bible-times/

Also it is best to look at the currency of the Jews, a currency of which is still used even to this day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel

FACT: Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established, the early Church/Christians (Matthew 23:23; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 8:1-3).

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can you prove they are not?

The prove is seen in the response from the source itself, coming from a former JW who spoke of Trust, stocks and bonds information, its on page 2.The only reason I made the question directed to you because the proof of which I had spoken of has already been in full display, read the response, this goes with the same prove of the whole Glasgow thing.

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:)))) look at the birds, my Father feed them all ......

I am sure the birds who fly in the heavens helped paid for your food, the clothing on your back, and internet access via ISP. God approves the way we use our money and how we work hard for it by means of our hands, the sweat of our brow an the our blood. We make money to make a living to provide, etc and we thank the Father for such because he is with us.

22 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does Bible anywhere said how this or that religion in our century is product of satan ..... or of god

Friend, I made this response to your response. You yourself stated the following: Because money is Satan product as Bible indicates.

 

My response was simply and clear: I don't believe the Bible says an y where that money is a pro duct of Satan and or make an  indication to such (unless you can point this specific verse out, quote it, let's have it then), let us just get that out of the way.

As for the Christendom religion, the Bible speaks of the church of which Jesus is said to be the cornerstone of, the foundation, I explained this to Witness weeks ago in regards to his post coming from Pearl of which he posted here, the only religions and or faiths that are product of Satan are those who teach nothing in regards to the First Church and or of the Early Christians, thus being accursed.

The teaching we go to an Afterlife, the teaching that God suddenly advocates for Molech worshipers, the teaching that Jesus is God, the teaching that we should intergrate the traditions of men into the church, the teachings of accepting the uninspired, the list goes on. You tell me what is is accursed and what is not, but the truth of the matter is, the Bible makes it clear and very explicit on those who adhere to the teachings and those who do not adhere to the teachings, but rather, the accursed teachings.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course, any one can donate. 

Bible words put money and material things (wealth)  in area of "unrighteous riches".

Ok, and what you have to realize also anyone who donates can donate to a person, group, organization and or institution of their choosing. Said person, of a group or not, can also make the selected a beneficiary.

You may want to re-read those bible verses, unrighteous riches equals to those using said riches for lawless acts, this is why it is best to look into exactly what the verse says rather than taking a good guess and or mentioning just half of it, thus taking in context.

I really do not see how a group who makes books, builds churches, and preaching, is seen as lawless acts, thus unrighteous riches in terms of money usage.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So all that i have and all that you have, are "unrighteous" by  this Bible words. So, all money that is in WT, all money that coming to WT from all kinds of sources, from members or from stocks and shares, in what ever connections might be with WT, is "bad money".

Can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds vs. being a beneficiary? That would be a neigh impossible task, granted with the archive of information speaks truth vs. falsehood. Again, the words of the former JW who is neutral and knows the inner workings of stocks and bonds as well as taxes, mutual funds, etc, hits harder than silver bullet.

You have to be more specific on this bad money because all those that have been listed has been mention to be false and it is only known because people are twisting the information and created conspiracy,the same can be said of the whole deal with Watchtower gaining money from Glasgow sports, for as you can see, that has been debunked to be false also.

At the end of the day, The Watchtower is merely a beneficiary. As for Mr. Zelda's response on the matter, this guy really needs to know the difference between tax returns vs. a tax return for a charitable trust (but ends up getting disgruntled ones on his side because of one thing - hate and they believe everything being said without checking the facts) - if you got former members calling this out, surely you now have a problem, your other problem is those, being former who agrees/disagrees with the Watchtower bring this truth to light because of the endless storm of conspiracy.

I am sure if you were in that position, you would make a defense to say you are a beneficiary of the Riley Trust, not it's owner, but those who dislike you will twist the information and state you are the owner, but you will have those who come in your defense, even though they are not much of a fan of you, they will still defend you. This situation has been played out in regards to the Watchtower for years and all false information embedded in conspiracy has been debunked and provide to be both false and unfounded.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because money is satan product as Bible indicates.

Really? so how are you being fed to remain alive, how are you getting clothes keeping you from roaming around in your birthday suit? Moreover, what is allowing you access to the internet by means of an ISP of which you yourself can post here on this site, mainly posting this response? Surely it isn't Satan's money you are using, and I am aware that people who are not living in 3rd world countries are practicing the Bartering System.

Money has been a form of currency for centuries, even in bible times, for it was from Satan himself, then why were the people using money, let alone those who at the time practiced free will offering of currency other than physical products, livestock and gifts?

I don't believe the Bible says anywhere that money is a product of Satan and or make an indication to such (unless you can point this specific verse out, quote it, let's have it then), let us just get that out of the way.

The Bible says the following, 2 primary verses the subject of money vs that of the secondary ones:

• 1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

The next verse

Matthew 6:24 - “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Now let's see how it can be a root of evil. The love of money (not money itself) will result in individual(s) to do vile and the most injurious things, which is indeed fact and true. In the Bible, there are those who are indeed wealthy, like King Solomon, the riches man of the time, who has made mention to several things in regards to love of money and the intent to commit injurious things.

That men of riches tend to not really sleep as much, killing themselves to just get another dollar.

• Ecclesiastes 5:12 - Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep.

Such ones are never satisfied, for it is obvious such are highly satisfied with what they have, lovers of their income

• Ecclesiastes 5:10 - He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

Some being tempted to even break the law itself by doing acts in order to get such wealth

• Proverbs 28:20 - A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.

We have seen many examples of such in Bible times, as well as in our day and age and it is ongoing.

Now we also know the Bible says this about money,

• Ecclesiastes 7:12 - For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

What is common heresy in the world of money to some people is the claim that money buys happiness and security, which we all know is just a mere placebo made by the men in the tall lofty buildings.

• Mark 4:19 - but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

Furthermore, money, however, is an answer to every need

• Ecclesiastes 10:19 -  Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything.

Money can buy the things you need in order to survive, such as food and anything in medication to aid you, mainly if you are the type to get sick easily and or get some illness as you age (2 Thessalonians 3:12). Money helps you to take care of you, should you take up a path that leads to marriage (unless you are already married) it can be used to support the both of you, should you and your wife decide to have children (unless you have kids already), the money can be used to support not just you and your wife, but your child and or children as well, thus money is used in support to help out the family, and or a community of people, as a whole. Moreover, in the Bible we see the following in 1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

So should you fail in this domain, as the verse indicates, it makes you far worse than an unbeliever.

• Luke 14:28 - For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

We are to be using money in a way that is of approval by God the Father

• Luke 16:9 -  And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.

The very careful and wise use of money must be in complete honesty in usage and it is a responsibly that has to be taken very seriously.

• Hebrews 13:18 - Pray for us, for we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honorably in all things.

We also have to avoid living beyond what we ourselves can handle in terms of using money for living and support purposes, at the same time not succumb to the likes of some in the world who are lovers of money (Hebrews 13:5) and it speaks about debt, even warns us about it (Proverbs 22:7) we also have to avoid the  impulse buying (Proverbs 21:5).

We must set things aside according to our own means and save money for what is  most important (1 Corinthians 16:2). We are encouraged to practice giving (Luke 6:38). Those who want to please God the Father must have good reason to be generous and kind, because God is said to be a lover a cheerful givers (2 Corinthians 9:7, Hebrews 13:16).

That being said, money can be used by both the righteous and unrighteous, for the righteous man will use the money to care for his family and or community, on the other side of the spectrum, the unrighteous will use money for vile things, such as lawless acts, hence unrighteous riches.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So, WT Company Inc. with all sister Companies around the world, and with all other Entities that Suport WT too, with more or less responsibility, with more or less awareness, with more or less intention are involved in business, transactions, that suport this unrighteous, bad materialistic system. No matter that WT publishing and printing Bible and magazines with Gods words, because the way, mean how money circling and coming from this hands to that hands reveals that deep issue how all money and wealth  coming, in fact, from global exploration of people, JW or non JW .

Again, the Watchtower is known as a beneficiary, if you believe as to what you are saying as truth, can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds vs. being a beneficiary?

The claim of the Riley Trust and mutual funds has been made known, that the Watchtower is not an owner, as disgruntled ones of conspiracy and those accepting such conspiracy has made claim to, for the truth of the matter is the Watchtower is a beneficiary and nothing more.

If you do not know what a Beneficiary is, I will provide links and information because it would seem even nearly 2 decades later, people still do not understand:

What is a Beneficiary - a person who derives advantage from something, especially a trust, will, or life insurance policy.

• https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/102915/can-mutual-funds-have-beneficiaries.asp
• https://www.iii.org/article/what-beneficiary
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficiary
• https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/beneficiary.asp

The list goes on with a simple google search, mainly in the domain of investing and finance. And it is common for owners of a fund and or trust to donate the money, be it known and or anonymous to a person, group, institution, organization of their choosing.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We are the part of a World. WT is part of the World no matter of their claim how they not. 

Do you have ID cart? Who gave it to you?

 Do WT have ID number as private Company? Who gave it to them?

Can you prove it instead of making claim? Literally we are part of the world, but when it comes to the world, but Spiritually, should you accept, we are not part of the world at all.

The talk of ID cart and or cards is kind of irrelevant to claim. Can you state the ID number of which you are referring to instead of making claim to it?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If yes.... then all who have it are part of the System. And if you are part of System you can not be without Guilt (in this matter- Economic, Money issue guilt on global scale).  

Clearly you do not get the idea of not being part of this world even entails, the bible tells you exactly what it means to not be part of the world.

Money guilt? But the former JW who speaks of the funds in question expressed far more truth than what you are displaying here now, the same case could be made of the claim of JWs being part of a sporting event and gaining revenue from it, which has been debunked to be false information and clearly they were only there for a convention.

Again, friend, you really have to wise up on this type of information, let alone the scriptures in the Bible itself, the claim to say that money is a product of Satan irks me, at the same time to speak of such, yet founded to be using money yourself, is kind of hypocritical.

The use of money is only evil unless you make it as so, according to the Bible.

As for your other response:

Srecko Sostar - thanks for info. For that reason i was deleted my post.

You really didn't have to deleted, but as you know what they say, even if you delete something on the internet, it is still there. What you have deleted is still mark as December 9, 2017 and even here, July 17, 2018. For what is written in ink cannot be removed, my friend, but the correction made by means of response is of a help so next time you understand to read and research into things before jumping to conclusions, doing so only leads to problems. If you were to present that claim to the JW known as Katgar, a regular to refuting Trinitarians in the Muslims channels, he would not only correct you, but roast you up badly at the same time. Situations like this we have to avoid so research is always key to understanding something and or someone.

@Srecko Sostar 

• [1] This video does not reveal JWs being at and or in sponsorship of sporting/business event, granted that majority of the world knows of what Glasgow area is all about, mind you, the reporter spoke of events that took place AFTER the games, what has been listed are those who simply come to use the venues, example would be MTV, they rented out said venue, JWs did the same. The only thing they got wrong is to say JWs were talking about sports injuries, when actual sources say JWs were preaching and inviting people to said venue, of which their convention is being held.
• [2] The News media itself was on BBC, the original video in full was about 5 minutes. You really have to dig deep by going back in time, not literal for it is neigh impossible, to find such, but majority is you will find a stockpile of articles on said event in 2014.
• [3] It is wise to pay very close attention to what these men, Blair MacNAB, Pro. Joe Goldblatt, and Scott Taylor had said in the video, surprisingly they didnÂ’t cut this out. They speak of those being attracted to Glasgow from the Business aspect of things, as well as other things to start a business, in regards to JWs, they were there for preaching and the convention, granted this was not their first time in Glasgow, hence the sources and the very fact that JWs have a presence in the area from the get go.
• [4] It is unfounded that JWs are selling products, mainly if you understood everything that went down that year.
• [5] I mean if the Watchtower was reaching out to Scottish ones speaking Gaelic, there is no question that they, as do many JWs know of where conventions are being held or anyone of their faith community being present in Glasgow, granted that the convention not only consist of local Glasgow JWs, but visitors as well as guests from both in and out of Glasgow, perhaps outside of EU. All JWs tend to know where a convention is being held, mainly due to the website of their faith making mention of convention dates and the like as well as location; they tend to hold conventions all over the UK, even in Glasgow and it is not the first, nor will it be the last.
• [6] The real question is are you accepting a lie of which a former JW is telling you, granted even the video itself and the information out there defeats the whole idea of JWs being part of a sporting event when they themselves are not listed as sports, but listed as those coming to Glasgow to do what they do? There is a reason as to why there are missing comments on that video, anyone putting down facts on the matter gets wiped out, luckily, the one who posted the short video, not even bothering to add the full one, cannot remove the facts here.
• [7] The activities were merely preaching and inviting, even the sources says that. Clearly if they preached and invited during an event, not many people will be worrying about religion, but more about sports. That is like trying to put a movie you made out for the first time on the same date a Marvel movie is to be released, youÂ’ll have little people going to see your movie because of the Marvel movie, therefore, the best idea was to release said movie not on the same day of a movie that everyone suddenly changes into a little fan boy and girl children to – just does not make sense, at the same time, shows a lack of common sense with such an approach, for no one is going to pay attention to God when sporting events, important to said area, is ongoing.

And lastly

• [8] You posted this before, back in December of 2017, I had not notice it until I searched it. You stated the following in title: JWorg attracted thousands of people and millions of pounds to Scotland on XX Commonwealth Games, Glasgow 2014.

 

The truth of the matter is, yes JWs did attract thousands, in the 9,000s, but nowhere did they make millions of dollars/pounds in currency from inviting people to a convention being held at a venue of which they had rented. Another fact is you made the claim that, even alluded in your title this took place during the Commonwealth Games 2014 in Glasgow, which was also held at the venue (2 events cannot take place in a single venue), but the video stated that the games had ended and the JW convention, along with others after them, took place nearly 2 weeks AFTER the games since the sporting event was no longer use the venue in question. So why did you say this before when the video defeats your claim and the claims made by former JWs who cut the video as well as deleted all facts posted by those who understood? The millions of pounds of which you had mention, is unfounded. And to say they are part of the world when you yourself didn’t even double check the information, holds no foundation, friend.

Now, onward to the information and facts.

Actually the only mention of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (called Bible Students by the news media) was that they were listed among those who have a presence in Glasgow after the multi-sporting events have concluded, which resulted (from the sporting event of course) the high interest of Glasgow for all to come and spend their dollar there, for Glasgow is good for business, some using the venues with high availability for use, but such is not cheap to rent out depending on how large and the length of the event hosted by the buyer, like The SSE Hydro, granted there are about 9,000+ (max capacity being 13,000+) JWs with guests included, who all gathered at The SSE (Scottish Exhibition Centre) Hydro in Glasgow, specifically those who originate from Gaelic (Gaels). They were not there to speak of sports injuries as the news media claim, rather, they were preaching in the area, also inviting people to their usual 3 day conventions, since they did spend money to rent the venue, that took places days (18 to 20 days) after the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games (July 23, 2014 – August 3, 2014) for their convention took place around the August 23, 2014 (most likely the 22 to the 24^th due to the it being Friday to Sunday).

The video also goes on to say (oddly enough the full 5 minute video of this news media is not present) that after the sporting, Glasgow venues have taken the attention of many people, this also includes the likes of MTV, who spent money to rent out the venues, and also the Jehovah’s Witnesses, for it is not unknown to anyone, even the members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that they, as do others, rent out venues and or buildings for religious purpose (last I checked they do not have 3 day conventions discussing sports injuries, let alone preach it), the same can be said of them renting out sports Stadiums to hold religious events – again, such things, mainly venues at that size, costs money, mainly if the capacity is at 13,000+. Furthermore, prior to their 3 day convention, they go out and preach as well as invite, hence why the venue rented out by JWs mange to fit more than 9,000 persons consisting of Scottish JWs, visitors and guests all meeting up at the SSE Hydro venue in Glasgow for 3 days.

I do not see how renting out an event makes them part of the world, so the claim is very weak in this sense, mainly if you listened carefully of what is said in the whole video, perhaps it is best to seek out the actually video itself which is somewhat a bit longer on bbc news uk.

It is also good to add that, the money spent on the venue for use goes to the owners of said venues, thus they, owning that place, make the profit, not the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses. Moreover, as done elsewhere on how they get their funds, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses still have a focus on donations to help further the Great Commission command, helping their members, making more books, etc. that money itself, being donated, does not go to the owner of the venues, but to the Watchtower itself.

So the claim to say that JehovahÂ’s Witnesses are part of the world and speak of them taking part in a sporting event when no shred of information or sponsorship of their presence is known, the only thing known is the presence they have after the events in preaching and inviting people to come to a convention, a convention that is being held in a large venue of which they themselves had spent the money to rent out.

Like I said about renting out, they are going to have an English Convention being held at the venue and JW presence in Glasgow is evident, especially since there are JW churches in Glasgow and parts of the UK: July 20 to July 22 English: Glasgow: The SSE Hydro, SEC, Glasgow G3 8YW

Link to all information regarding the SSE Hydro: https://www.thessehydro.com/about

Article making mention of Jehovah’s Witnesses occupying the SSE Hydro space:  http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13176456.Scottish_Jehovah_s_Witnesses_start_preaching_in_Gaelic/

Knowing how that area is, the Watchtower is well aware of Gaelic speaking people: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/publishing/scottish-gaelic-irish-welsh-translation/

The SSE Hydro is a Big deal: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30796463 as well as seen here: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27619909

Also it is ridiculously obvious that the Watchtower has nothing to do with the games itself, again the claim of them being part of the world when the world knows Restorationist are not part of the world, Glasgow games in 2014 has listed it’s sponsors  to show for it also (http://www.glasgow2014.com/about-us/our-sponsors), but the news media has listed are groups that came AFTER the games to use the venues, well in this case, the, at the time, recently upgraded SEC, the SSE Hydro. Further proof of sponsorship regarding the sporting event (https://www.allabouttabletennis.com/commonwealth-games-2014-glasgow.html), it is also evident on their very own social media presence also.

One thing for certain, these venues, at a glance are HUGE, and it is a pretty nice area, a lot of people in this town also.

Apparently JehovahÂ’s Witnesses here are pretty much the old fashion type of Scottish folk, some men just like kilts, I, as a Caribbean islander, see such things as weird, but hey, I respect people who have the utmost respect in honoring their culture.

• FACT: The SSE Hydro is a multi-purpose indoor arena located within the Scottish Event Campus in Glasgow, Scotland. The arena was initially named The Hydro after its main sponsor, energy company Scottish & Southern Energy subsidiary Scottish Hydro. The company then re-branded itself and its subsidiary companies as SSE, however the Hydro name was retained despite it no longer being a trading name. The arena was designed by the London-based architects Foster + Partners and officially opened on 30 September 2013, with a concert by Rod Stewart. Within 3 years of opening, the SSE Hydro became the eighth-busiest venue worldwide. The arena handled 751,487 ticket sales making it the eighth-busiest music arena in the world in terms of ticket sales. It also hosted the UFC's first event in Scotland – an event which was impossible to hold in any other arena in the country.
• FACT: Attracting an audience of more than a million visitors each year, the venue is consistently ranked by Pollstar in the top 10 arenas globally, alongside iconic venues like Madison Square Garden and The O2. Since opening in September 2013, The SSE Hydro has staged the 2014 MTV Europe Music Awards, the Ryder Cup Gala Concert and the 2014 BBC Sports Personality of the Year. It was also a venue for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

Side Facts:

• Built on the site of the former QueenÂ’s Dock, The SSE Hydro is the only UK venue of its scale built specifically for live entertainment. It is the largest entertainment venue in Scotland.
• The SSE Hydro has been designed to be flexible, accommodating a wide range of concerts, conferences and events. The seats and staging can be reconfigured to provide a capacity of 12,000 (all seated) or up to 13,000 (seated and standing in performance bowl).
• The unique façade of The SSE Hydro, made up of pneumatic translucent cushions, has been made possible by using a special film originally developed for the space industry. This allows natural light to illuminate the foyers during the day and the arena to ‘glowÂ’ at night.
• The SSE Hydro has a 125 metre wide roof, with the diagonally latticed steelwork forming a shallow silver dome standing 45 metres at its highest point.
• The distinctive elliptical sloping shape of The SSE Hydro was inspired by ancient Greek and Roman amphitheatres. This shape offers the optimum balance of viewing angle and distance from the stage.

So, the following:

• [A] The former JW not only cut the video, but also removed comments from those who spoke actual fact about the whole Glasgow thing, of which is also expressed here. Very odd. You can tell if a comment has been marked as spam, deleted, and or removed when the comment count is present on YouTube, mainly if you still have the older format.
•  There is mention of JWs by citizens of that area, stating JWs are seen preaching to houses and having carts near public areas.
• [C] The JWs simply rented out the venue to hold a religious convention and nothing more; the owner of the venue is SEC Limited, not the JWs.
• [D] Such of which you have posted does not really make any proof that this faith is part of the world, these guys wouldnÂ’t dare pick up an AK-47 to use against another person, mainly the fact such ones who are dedicated to the faith make claim to God, something that is true, being not partial, that He wants us to work and be good towards all, mainly towards those of different from us in race, nation/tribe, religion, etc. (Micah 4:2,Galatians 6:10; Acts 10:34)
• [E] Anyone who spends money to rent a venue, a space, and or building, that money goes to the owner, thus the owner in question gains money from those who is using his and or her business and or product – the venue building itself, no different from renting out a Stadium or a small area inside of a Hotel to host an event.

On 7/8/2018 at 9:29 PM, Nicole said:

When my grandmother died, they decided to hold a huge lunch at a restaurant.

Same thing happened when a cousin died.

I heard this is common for JW. Why?

It usually depends, not just if the person is JW, but the culture of some people. For JWs in America can hold a small reception of members of their community and that of family members and friends who were very close to the deceased, while elsewhere, perhaps like in DR or Haiti, it is a very small get together in the home of someone very close to the deceased, no food no nothing, perhaps tea or coffee, but that is about it, while some of them literally have no form of reception at all. Elsewhere, like in some parts of Africa, as well as the EU some simply just bury the the dead and remain in the household of the one who lost their loved one and care for them until they feel better.

But it differs for some people. Outside of the realm of religion, there are some, crazy and perhaps, even morbid display of sending some off to be buried in Sheol, there is one particular trend I have noticed in the US that is someone haunting and disturbing.

But yes, usually depends on the customs of the people and the culture at times, so it is not something common, granted that JWs come from different backgrounds and racial groups with various cultures and practices that differ from each other, even though they are of the same faith community.

@sami Very good, the more people who know about Shema Yisrael, the better.

Also, you a fan of Hebrew Professor Jeff A. Benner? Because of him, I know quite a bit of Hebrew myself at an early age.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Jesus died on the cross but that does not mean He ceased to exist. The idea that at death Jesus ceased to exist has no scriptural backing, it must be read into the meaning of what death is.

Jesus did die, if you have forgotten, Jesus was a man, thus being corruptible,

• Luke 23:46 - Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

Moreover, Jesus spoke of his death, being killed and the fact he will raise up again, resurrection (Luke 9:22–27) even foretold it, again in other passages, even when troubled, knowing the day is upon him only for God to comfort him (John 12:27), the reason as to why Jesus is said, several times, to be the Firstborn out of the Dead (Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Revelations 1:5, Romans 8:29 , Hebrews 11:28, 12:23) and Jesus himself made mention of this position about him being the Living one who has died and had risen, also him having the keys to Hades (Revelation 1:18), to say otherwise is teaching something accursed that even your own Trinitarian brothers would not dare to say. Be it you believe he died on a cross, a tree or a stake, what is there is a man, who cried out to his Father, and died, for as for all who have died, even Jesus himself, go to Hades (according to Jews, buried in Sheol). Jesus' cries in pain and suffering was foretold, see Psalms 22:1, which points back to what he had said prior to his death while suffering. We also see such in description of God being the one taking Jesus out of death as seen in Hebrews 5:7,and if we are to follow what Paul has said, he has made this clear in nearly all of which he had written, mainly in Acts.

What death is, is a state of no function, the opposite of life, that of which is corruptible, life/flesh, is subjected to succumb to death itself.

And actually the Bible makes it clear, for 3 days, Jesus himself slept in Hades and on the final day, he had risen. There is a reason why the belief in life and the resurrection is indeed a thing regarding the Christ,for he had conquered death, thus being the first of the fruits, firstborn out of the dead, hence his state when he had been raised and eventually ascended back to heaven.

We also have to remember that Jesus died so that humans could have their sins forgiven and receive eternal life. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 1:7) Jesus’ death also proved that a human can remain loyal to God the Father even when faced with many forms of trials putting them to the test (Hebrews 4:15).

Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins. (Colossians 1:14). He died so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (John 3:16). the Christ became obedient to the point of death, thus proving that a human could be faithful to God the Father under any test or trial. (Philippians 2:8).

We also have to not forget that Death at the hands of Roman torturers and executioners was certain and could come from several causes. Jesus had been beaten repeatedly and lashed with a Roman scourge before His crucifixion (Matthew 27:26). The leather scourge, a type of whip, was designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain and damage possible on to the victim, which in this case, had been inflicted upon Jesus. It was also braided with bone and metal pieces woven into the ends that tore into the flesh with each stroke, its as painful as it gets. The scourge would rip into the underlying muscles and produce strips of quivering, bleeding flesh.

Church Father Eusebius, reported that the sufferer’s veins were laid bare, and the very muscles, sinews, and bowels of the victim were open to exposure, and it is known that many victims would die from the scourging before they could be crucified.

Extreme pain, mixed together with blood loss, would often cause the victim to go into shock, for his blood pressure would drop and cause fainting, collapse and intense thirst. In the Gospels accounts, Jesus experienced these symptoms on His way to Golgotha (Skull Rock). Weakened to the point of collapse, He couldn’t bear the weight of the device of which he is to be crucified on, of which he was carrying and a bystander, Simon (of Cyrene), was forced to carry it part of the way for Him as seen in Mark 15:21. When He was crucified, He said, I thirst , see John 19:28. He had already suffered beatings on a level of savagery before the scourging. At His trial before the Sanhedrin, they spat in His face and beat Him; and others struck Him with the palms of their hands, saying that Prophesy to us, Christ! Who is the one who struck You?, see Matthew 26:67-68. When they turned Him over to the Roman soldiers, they further brutalized Him, beating Him with their fists, slapping Him and shoving a crown of thorns on His head, see Matthew 27:29-30; Mark 15:16-19; John 19:3. The extent of this beating is indicated in the prophecy

• Isaiah 50:6 - I gave my back to those who strike, and my cheeks to those who pull out the beard; I hid not my face from disgrace and spitting.

Another, more explicit and yet graphic prophecy:

• Isaiah 52:14 - As many were astonished at you— his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind—

This pretty much tells you that Jesus was badly beaten, so bloodied and maimed, that he was scarcely recognizable as a human being, for that is how bad it was, how the brutality level was through the roof in this sense.

Furthermore, his accusers had a thirst for blood (John 19:1-6). But their hatred of the bloodied man from Nazareth could only be satisfied, hence why they insisted the crucifixion.

Jesus suffered in agony, The prophecy of Christ’s suffering is seen in Psalms 22:14 and it refers to His tortured condition.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Take for example on how some read Eccl 9:5, 10 and falsely concluding that the dead are conscious of nothing. Yet here Solomon was stating the way things appear “under the sun”, that is, from the human perspective alone (see Eccl. 1:2-3, 18).

Solomon verses connect to Psalms 39:5 and Romans 8:20. Also of what Solomon's says has nothing to do of what is spoken of about the Dead, the same can be said of what the Law itself speaks of regarding those in death. verse 18 is about an abundance of wisdom, thus connecting correctly with these 2 passages in the same book, 2:15 and 12:12, therefore, these verses have no connection with Eccl. 9:5, 10, for a passage speaks of death coming to all and no activity in Hades while the other passage, regarding what Solomon had said makes no connection to death and the grave whatsoever.

under the sun appearing in chapter 9 is related to what we do in life because when we die we cannot do things we did in life. A dead man cannot care for his child, a dead man cannot work with his hands, however, only those, under the sun, alive and roaming about the earth can do these things, but once dead and buried into Sheol, sent to Hades, you can't really do anything. Chapter 5 also makes mention of those who, under the sun, eating and drinking, enjoying the work of their hands from hard work. An expression does not really change what a passage is conveying, so the remark about Solomon is unfounded.

Regarding chapter 9, death is applied to both humans and animals, even the Law in the Torah makes mention of death and or perishing, even making claim to the fact that the law of which the people followed, they themselves knew the opposite of life itself, is death, it is not something entirely different and or a mystery, in fact, the Bible speaks of it explicitly, as well as referring to death as an enemy.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Now the claim that “support” has been “supplied” for the idea that the Holy Spirit is a power is rather lacking. Nowhere in Scripture does it say “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”. Nowhere!

Actually it is not lacking, it was mention several times, you simply chose to ignore it as well as the biblical description of the Holy Spirit, it being out-poured to the people, etc. Example Genesis Act of Creation (even Trinitarians know about this one so it is odd for you to ignore such), and or the fact that Jesus, having the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is able to perform the works by which the power of the Spirit enables him to do and the very fact that God the Father abides in him. Believe such was mention 3-4 times, but you just brush over it.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

The only passages that have been allegedly “supplied”, to date, are those passages where that idea must be read into them. None actually say what is claim. Search through the Scriptures and nowhere is this idea forthcoming, nowhere.

What was supplied have been mentioned several times, it is clear you are ignoring it.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

So to establish my point, show where in Scriptures it says “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”?

Check out what was already addressed for about 4-5 times now. See below, perhaps read it this time instead of ignoring it because at this point everything you made mention of, even of Jesus' death, has been refuted, thus correcting you.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

In fact there are a number of passages that show how absurd this idea actually is, Acts 10:38 for example, which would read “anointing with power and power”. <><

Again, already been explained several times, mainly if the verse is taken into context, clearly, again, it shows you are ignoring because if you are bringing this up again, it just proves my point even further.

 

I will post the response here.... again, and pinpoint your first mention to show people here you are repeating yourself even after being corrected:

This has been answered between May 12th-13th (found under page 19 of this topic)

You made mention of this before, reading into the text without understand context, I will say it again in all caps for you - CONTEXT.

 

A copy of the response to what you seem to not understand:

Quote

Acts 10:38 has cross-references, really strong ones. Also making this response "anointing with power and power" is pretty weak, if you really knew what the Holy Spirit is capable of and what it has been used to do, etc. it would be clear to you.

God was with him, Jesus, especially during his ministry and the like via said power.

FACT: Many scriptures refer to the Holy Spirit as the power of God (Zechariah 4:6; Micah 3:8). Apostle Paul told Timothy that it is the spirit of power and of love and of a sound mind in 2 Timothy 1:7 (added emphasis).

• 2 Timothy 1:7  - for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

FACT: In the gospel of Luke, Luke 4:14, it records that Jesus Christ began His ministry in the power of the Spirit. Luke 1:35 identifies the Holy Spirit with the power that is of the Highest. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, which would be given to His followers after His death, Jesus told them, You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

Acts 1:8 - But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

FACT: Simon Peter relates how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, [and Jesus] went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him, as seen in Acts 10:38 (pertaining to the above). The Holy Spirit is here associated with the power by which God was with Him— the power through which Jesus Christ performed mighty miracles during His earthly, physical ministry. The Holy Spirit is the very presence of God's power actively working in His servants. The apostle Paul's desire was that the members of the Church in Rome would abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit, in the same way that Jesus Christ had worked through him in mighty signs and wonders , by the power of the Spirit of God (Romans 15:13, 19).

Answer to Acts 10:38 found here:

 

21 minutes ago, AllenSmith34 said:

It wouldn't be surprising, former witnesses would attempt to use the Watchtower name for their personal gain. I believe simple comparison about the vast amount of the Watchtower literature that is subjectively misrepresented, would be an indicator for, how far people are willing to go.

The “only” weapon the Watchtower needs? Is fully disclosed to the public. God’s word!

As for investments that are made in, belief, of the Watchtower, an economist that is acquainted with the Watchtower portfolio would make it aware to the Watchtower if an investment is “joined” (tethered) to a questionable stock.

However, what is “more” surprising? What people do accept as fact, and would continue with that misrepresentation, especially when the information comes from questionable sites. Therefore, I would ask, where is the same amount of assessment, and under the microscope analyzes, for other religious organizations with their tax returns?

Yes, and it has been going on for years now, the fact that Rick Fearon has been mentioned only adds more fuel to the fire due to how everyone views Fearon, in addition to those who support and or alluded to whatever he says. If his own blood deem him as crazy, that should tell you something. I myself had a run in with those in support of anything Fearon says and it was not fun at all, but very aggravating to deal with such ones. Former members of Jehovah's Witnesses, those who are neutral and actually fight against the lies people make about the faith, often have to clash with former members who show a total disdain for the faith itself, which was the case with the whole stocks and bonds information of which people tend to spread conspiracy of, only for those who knows the information far better than the conspiracy spreaders, putting the truth into the light, which was successfully done regarding the Riley Trust and anything in connection of it, the same can be said about those saying the JWs have military connection when it is known JWs wouldn't even submit to nationalism, and or join the Navy, so the Navy contract claims are false. As for the tax return thing, it was brought up by a man named Jason Zelda, to which people have called out about his twisting of information regarding tax returns.

Other than that, it is always a constant war-zone when it comes to stuff like this, and some, even when proven wrong still rely on the falsehood information, some even now rely on such and claim it as truth, when the real truth that debunked everything has been made known years before and known by everyone.

Yes, JWs only use God's Word, the claim that JWs harbor weapons, poisons and other devices of destruction under their churches, be it in Warwick, to Pennsylvania, all the way to the Congo is unfounded. Churches that harbor weapons or the like are known as Christian Terrorist, such as Christian Militants, who also train children for combat and or the KKK, the modern day Crusaders, and several others, an example would be, a pastor, some years ago, took a gun out of fake bible to shoot an angry husband, for his wife had committed adultery with the pastor, who shot the husband during service in front of a crowd, for it is that crazy out there.

Since JWs are not of the mainstream Christendom and the fact they are Restorationist, there is 0% chance that they would have a stockpile of weapons and poisons, of which JW opponents make the claim they will soon distribute poisons to their members, the irony of it all is a JW opponent riddled an empty JW church with bullets from an assault rifle, the response and reaction from JWs was not of fighting fire with fire, pulling an AR-15 to seek out the culprit, no, they were concerned and very passive, as well as being aware of how people treat them, those who have a total disdain for them.

That is also true, that is why I was able to spot the 2 links that Witness posted as the top Google searched links, these same links are used time and time again to further make proof to a claim proven false many times in the past.

Now, Rick Fearon, be it a JW, former, or not even that religious, it is known to many that Fearon is someone one should not be supporting an or even alluding to support anything of which he says. The man is known as a fraud by many, and often times even deemed crazy, even by his own blood.

I will just shed a small light on why some bring up weapon bunkers, poisons the whole wedding ring thing, but this is but small fragments of information of which I had saved from 3 years ago.

Since originally we are speaking of Rick Fearon, I will get to Pearl another time, the claims of guns being stockpiled was brought up by a Fearon Follower (I blank out the names for reasons), who is also a disgruntled former JW who was in an argument with an Israeli Christian, and later on a Hardcore Christian. There was an actual marine in the discussion but the Fearon Supporter wiped out the discussion, with one EXJw being seen saying she wish death on others and wants blood of JWs, and made the same remark of those who were killed in the Manchester Bombing, this person also being a Fearon Support and a former JW.

Clearly the disgruntled one is very ignorant and hate filled. After being refuted several times, this person deleted several of her comments and resort to insult, even to mocking the name of the Hardcore Christian who's name was of someone who died on 9/11, as well as her racist remarks to the Israeli Christian who also was in debate with her, even before this one she had stated Rick made it known that all JW churches have weapon bunkers under them, as well as the mention of poisons, something of which the JW opponents spoke of time and time again.

Quote

This same user, continues to speak in support of Rick Fearon, making the claim that no one is seeing this man as a fraud and or in error, as seen here:

Quote

 

More claims made by this person, but this time to the Hardcore Christian, for this person is not a fan of Rick Fearon, but the follower of Fearon continues, she makes claim that the person, who made the comment in the below image is a support of Fearon, but we see for ourselves that the person of whom she speaks of, a well known former member, is clearly against Fearon:

Quote

But in the next image, we see that one of the well known former JWs made this comment:

Also it is safe to mention she also accused the Hardcore Christian of stealing a picture from JW opponents, the picture in question is a free use image to the public, default art.

Furthermore, it is clear that there is a fallout among even the former members who are on a constant attack on this faith and only this faith alone, for this person in question does not shy away from Trinity believing versions of JWs known as SDAs (addressing the person who made the comment above). So that in itself is hypocrisy, and moreover, we can see that shows that people do not support Rick Fearon, they do not mention him, they do not speak of him, whatsoever.

Even the  Atheists make mention of Fearon, in a negative light, they also make mention of what I had addressed previously of what Fearon's original plan is all about:

Quote

 

Even to this day, the views are still there, even by a relative of Rick Fearon who is of relation says the same about Rick Fearon himself, thus keeping his connection to Rick hidden, but only once made the mention of being related to this man.

Now let us go to the Fearon supporter's view on wedding rings. She spoke strongly about Rick's view on this matter and had this to day to the Hardcore Christian, moreover, the Fearon follower is twisting the words of the Hardcore Christian who defended wedding rings because Fearon said otherwise:

Quote

 

This is what the Hardcore Christian had to say vs. the Fearon claim regarding Wedding Rings:

Quote

First PART  is regarding symbolism, second regarding a bit of bible and historic explanation. Read carefully.

Your comments: (if you don't mind I am using your comments on a Christian forum, all of them because it is something to discuss. You, an idiot of a woman who follows Rick Fearon clearly do not know anything, perhaps you had fallen from the bosom of your mother as a child, thus the way you are now)

 

Now regarding my findings on weddings dresses and rings (bands), Wedding rings symbolized many things in the different cultures that have used them throughout the history. Some cultures and or traditions indicate that a man placing a ring on the finger of a woman reflects as proof that he the woman is for the man and the man is for the woman, hence the verse being yoked together, Matthew 19:4-6.  To some Christian denominations as well as Catholics and the like; in one symbolism to some:  Old traditions follow this form of symbolism of the ring on the left hand being > The Thumb means in “the name of The Father”, Index means “in the name of Jesus Christ (The Son)”, Middle means “In The Holy Spirit” and finally the 4th also known as the ring finger is “Amen” (check sources).  It is actually an Old school Christian based ceremony practice by most Trinitarians of different Christian denominations, rarely followed by Non-Trinitarians of other denominations.

Sources:

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/09/the-origin-of-wedding-rings-and-why-theyre-worn-on-the-4th-finger-of-the-left-hand/

MinÂ’s explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPQ031rIpTI&t=0s

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-wedding-rings.html

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/relationships/marriage/what-is-marriage/history-of-wedding-rings/

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/are-wedding-rings-biblical-what-do-they-symbolize.html

 

As for the wedding dress, the sexual pagan originate with what you stated in your comment has no backing. White in general represents purity, cleanliness, joy and several other meanings, which can be found biblically, (Daniel 7:9, Matthew 17:2, Mark 9:3, Luke 9:29, Revelation 1:12 - 14, 6:11, 19:8, 20:11) or pretending to be so (Revelation 6:2), or made pure (Daniel 11:35, 12:10, Psalm 51:7, Isaiah 1:18, Revelation 3:18, 7:9, 13 - 14). It also symbolizes wisdom (Revelation 1:14), holiness or dedication to God (2Chronicles 5:12, Mark 16:5, John 20:12, Acts 1:10, Revelation 4:4, 19:14) or joy (Ecclesiastes 9:8). As for dressing, women must dress modestly as 1 Timothy 2:9 reads: In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; (KJV). Dressing modest also applies to men.

 

Sources:

http://www.biblestudy.org/bible-study-by-topic/meaning-of-colors-in-the-bible/meaning-of-color-white.html

https://www.openbible.info/topics/dress

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Brides-Wedding-Dress

Note: Culture and Tradition plays many factors into Weddings. Weddings only cross the line of paganism if such practices as throwing rice, Wiccan, Asatru, hand fasting, Celtic, black massing, Druidism, Nudity, sexual misconduct, etc. Gay marriage also falls in this category. Sources of what pagan weddings look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAyBlSaqjLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUJYGUOJWw

Other sources: http://offbeatbride.com/pagan-weddings/

Perhaps your claims about the wedding dress and rings contrast with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_wedding

Conclusion: Is Wedding Rings or the gown pagan? No. Can a Wedding be pagan? Yes, if steps taken from paganism is added into a wedding ceremony. Key is simplicity.

You and everyone else who follows Rick Fearon are fools and spawns of the Devil. At this point, you make the JWs look like heroes, Batman and Superman like.

 

::::Biblical/Historic Explanation::::

 

Abraham’s servant found Rebekah, he gave her a nose ring to claim her as Isaac’s bride (Genesis 24:22)! When Tamar disguised herself as a harlot to entice her father-in-law, Judah, she asked him for his signet, cord, and staff as a pledge of his promise to send her "a kid from the flock" (Genesis 38:17-19). Jeremiah informs us that the Israelites wore the signet ring on the right hand (Jeremiah 22:24). The signet ring was used to seal various contracts. It was a symbol of authority, dignity, and social status (James 2:2). Pharaoh gave his signet ring to Joseph as a symbol of authority (Genesis 41:42). Likewise, Ahasuerus gave his signet to Haman to seal a royal decree (Esther 3:10, 12). Upon his return, the prodigal son received a ring from his father as a symbol of dignity and restored position (Luke 15:22). The finger rings mentioned in the Bible are signet rings used as symbols of authority and dignity. The Romans are credited for pioneering the use of the signet ring as a betrothal ring. The Jews and the Christians borrowed the practice from the Romans. Since the betrothal ceremony usually involved the groom giving a sum of money or a valuable object to the bride, it was a natural transition to make this object a ring. The wedding or marriage ring came into use in Christian ceremonies in the 9th century AD. The custom of wearing the wedding ring on the fourth finger of the left hand is based upon a romantic, although unscientific, Greek fable that the artery from that finger flows directly to the heart. However and whenever the custom of the wedding band developed, it is seen today as a symbol of an unending commitment to the marriage relationship. As such, it certainly has a biblical basis in that marriage is to be a lifetime commitment (Romans 7:2). This is not to say that wearing a wedding ring is a requirement for married Christians. But wedding rings are a beautiful reminder of the marriage covenant and, by extension, the covenant of Christ with His bride—the redeemed for whom He died.

 

Other: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_at_Cana

 

This same person, the Hardcore Christian, also debated another claim by the one who speaks on and supports Rick Fearon regarding JWs and Nationalism:

Quote

Did you even read the list you provided? For the Gobitis and Burnette cases about Jehovah's Witnesses and the First Amendment Clause (Exercise and Free Speech Clause), there was only 2 Episcopal Jurist present, only one of them was Chief Justice for the Burnette case (In the Gobitis case it was a Baptist as Chief Justice). Only later on did Justice Robert Jackson became involved. Your first claim was that ALL Lawyers and Scholars were Jewish look at your comment.

*First*, not all of them them were Jewish, as my comment shows you there were 2 Jurist at the time, only one of them was involved with the case of Jehovah's Witnesses families (Gobitis and the Burnetts) at the time (not the Watchtower). The Jewish Jurist present for both was Felix Frankfurter. The other being Louis Brandeis, who was dealing with other cases and had teamed up with those involved in the Gobitis/Burnette cases.

*Second*, not ALL of them were Episcopalian. The only 3 involved in the case was Harlan F. Stone and Owen J. Roberts. Robert Jackson, who was new, was replacement Justice for the Burnette case.

*Third*, yes none of the Jurist or Lawyers were Jehovah's Witnesses (nor were they Scholars in their own merit), you stated before that Most of the Jurist were Jewish Scholars and that not only they sided with the Jehovah's Witnesses, they became Jehovah's Witnesses after feeling some sympathy for them. You stated in your comment "You Heard Watchtower spin so and so..." when the reality is, Jehovah's Witnesses are not patriotic, they're not Nationalist who take sides, they are politically neutral (hence why they are always attacked), however when it comes to court cases and the like, they are known for defending themselves regardless of winning or losing a case. If the Gobitis Family never stood up, Freedom of Speech and or to Exercise Faith would not be part of the First Amendment, as the many claims in the past as stated. Without it, you wouldn't be talking about JWs or anything for that matter, thus why many (who agree or disagree with the JWs) thank them for such cases in the 1940s even to this day (be it media or school projects, etc.) Other_sourceshttp://www.historynet.com/what-we-owe-jehovahs-witnesses.htm

 

Fourth (regarding isreals laws): Americans have Bill of Rights hence the Amendments, People living in Israel do not have Bill of Rights, they have "Basic Laws of Israel" :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Laws_of_Israel

Truth, yes the number one religion of the Supreme Court Justices, is Episcopalian, however, in both cases: For Gobitis it was Baptist Charles E. Huges while in the Burnette case, it was Harlan F. Stone.'

Geez, I guess everyone who leaves JWs and become an apostate is as stupid as drunk man sitting on a TV watching his couch.

In doing so he put an end to this Fearon Supporters constant lying and the fact one can tell she is lying is when she throws insults and accusations.

My next response about Rick Fearon would be his connection with Byron Brown, and all facts and information is accurate, in order to bring forth His plans regarding converts, and  more information about him in recent times.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

SM – my point is, I don’t really care what the Watchtower may or may not have “bunkered” away.  The bigger evil is played out in the “heavenly” realm and affects the motivation of its leaders. Yet, anything is possible by an organization that practices spiritual deceit and lacks integrity toward upholding God’s Word. Eph 6:12

Unfortunately, there has to be a care for if there are groups who have weapons stashed somewhere, it should be of concern even by the public. To speak of rumor, conspiracy and yield upon speculation via claims that are not true can only cause more harm than good, like I said, both Passaic and Orange County are such ones to take issue with things mainly in regards to firearms and weapon caches and or bunkers, and speculation leads to problems, i.e. the situation that has taken place in a Jewish Cemetery, of which I made mention to months ago near the area or perhaps the teacher having the firearm inside of a educational institution.

Other than that, like I have said time and time again, the JWs is a Restorationist group with religious leaders who are not following Christendom of the mainstream, but rather, the early Church itself, the very reason as to why they differ and often ones who are targets, and Restorationist are known to adapt to learning new things by means of Scripture, the mainstream do not, an example would be knowing of inspired and uninspired verses, like others, made revisions.

So when it comes to understanding their Christology to it's core, one can easily see where they are coming from, granted the practices of the early church of which they profess stems from the Apostolic Age, who even back in those days, differ from the accepted form of Christianity that today's mainstream professes.

If they were indeed a big evil, mind you, a minority group out of all denominations, they would have joined up with Babylon, perhaps, signed up to increase Babylon's ranks back in October 2016, granted majority of religious around the world have united with each other and it being more obvious since it has been alluded to back in the 2000s.

And as to what big evil is being played out in the Heavenly realm as you say?
 

As far as many people know already, a Non-Trinitarian Restrationist group isn't part of Babylon and or the likes of those who are the real evil here, that is unheard of, even the Sunnis and Shias know this,as do others.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

The Watchtower is not in the dark concerning where the trust money comes from, but the rank and file have been for years.

Apparently they are known for this, even former members of the faith made confirmation of this (which can be seen by the information provided), even current members of the faith also, as well as those who are not part of any religious denomination. It comes down to the rank and file to do the research, but such has already been made known, for over the years this has been brought up in discussion time and time again by Atheist who show up to debate with both JWs and former JWs - mainly in the 18-20+ years that have passed, such information is not unknown when one does the research, mainly to those who know of trust funds, tax laws and the like far more better than others, I need not speak of quotes because the information of what was professed is evident, with several quotes put into the response.

To believe no one knows of this when it has already been public is kind of silly, especially when there is actual truth vs. those accepting and or making incorrect claims.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

I suppose if there was a brothel listed among the companies you may take a different view of this trust money coming into the hands of the Watchtower? 

Perhaps, but it is no surprise with what kinds of donations that both educational, religious, as well as political persons, groups and or organization receive, being it the donation is anonymous or known, in the end, they do not own the trust, only the owner of the trust does, and the owner, he or she can choose to where they want to put their money in to support so and so - which was the case with the Riley Trust situation of which some twist the very formation of without looking into the facts of the operation of a trust and or mutual fund. If I am not mistaken, there are those who do receive money from brothels, most of the time it is anonymous, however in this case, such is not listed at all. former members made the claim to a specific company, but the list provided by you and want I dug up only points to conspiracy.
Moreover, it should be known to you, even before this, that any person, group, institution and or organization can donate to any person, group, institution and or organization of their choice, which seems to be the case with Ms. Riley.

Other than that, the brothel remark seems like a jab, granted the list you provided and the list I have provided having been brought to light to be false, for people make connections to paint so and so as the enemy.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

You are on the other side of the Watchtower fence. 

Not quite. Because I took the time to look into the operations of trusts and funds, tax returns, etc. Then I went on to look at the trust information itself. Because I already know of what you bring up is one-sided, the top of the list whereas I went in to look for the ifnormation myself -hence why the response I made early, according to former members, such of which you have listed, example, Raytheon Company, was a hoax.
It is more about putting forth truth to fact vs. claims that do not stack up.

After all, I brought up the information that halts the conspiracy in it's place, as the one who made the information public, he wanted to put the claims made to rest with absolute fact.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

Although you have nicely explained how the trust funds develop and are used, the truth is, the money has been accrued and used by the very organization that teaches its members to be “no part of the world”.  The money the Watchtower open-handedly accepts with no questions comes from companies that its members would be disfellowshipped for working for.  In fact, they may not be approved for baptism if working for a military company, when readying themselves to join the organization. 

Well that is important, if one does not know how Trust funds are and how they operate, you can easily trick someone with the claim you made by your other response, but knowing even the basics, one can see the error and do the research, there was a reason as to why I asked you to cite your information.

Now, they are not like mainstream Christendom (that is absolute fact), this faith group is not part of this world, which is indeed true, they take bible passages seriously and adhering to our early brothers and sisters in teaching and action, the same could be said of Restorationist individuals who knows what the Bible message is all about despite not being affiliated with any denomination whatsoever, hence their neutrality, but evident refutation of accursed things. That being said, accepting donations does not disqualify such ones from their stance of not being part of this world, that would have easily removed the historically engraved position of them being Restorationist to begin with, another thing is, the majority of their money is used for the Great Commission.

Burn down a JW church, destroy it, or perhaps the church is taken down by natural disasters, they will simply make the plan among their community and discuss with those who are leading, use the funds to gain resources, get the volunteers to clean up the area and build another church, this also goes hand in hand with the money being used for their books, getting a portion of their church member having a bit higher responsibility from one church to another, and I believe it has been said they take care of their older ones also, etc. They are also known to buy property to build their churches and or support members as well as sell said property. At times during such events of , they do tend to help out others as wll as their own, which was the case with areas hit by disasters, the recent ones being Puerto Rico and Texas, of which they did partake in helping their own and others, however, JW opponents went as far as to flag video proof of JWs helping out, causing said video to be deleted, thus painting them in a bad light afterwards and make the claim they didn't do anything in events that unfolded in Puerto Rico and Texas, equaling them to the likes of Joel Olsteen, when the video that they got removed showed JW's helping people nearby as well as witnessing their church literally flooded - now that in itself is deceitful and misleading - this of which I mentioned before.

It would be a problem if the Jehovah's Witnesses had used the money on things that do not contribute to the Great Commission at all, and as I said, I spoke explicitly before on those who take the Great Commission seriously vs. those who do not - be it individual and or group based. If it were the case, all the books they produce to this day would be lacking, as with the number of churches they have, the numbers would be down, however, it would seem to be going up rather than down, granted the group just bumped up a few thousands in converts, therefore, growing and more is being done, 8.3 to 8.4+.

For what people are looking for is a church that is true to their word on the use money, if it is is being used primarily on the Great Commission work itself, that is, the spreading of the gospel,evangelicalism the people, teaching, etc. They tend to put their community of believers first, before helping others, which was the case in Puerto Rico, Mexico, Texas, Haiti, Dominican Republic,to name a few (mainly with what went down in the span of 10-11 years), moreover, knowing how the community is to Caribbeans, mainly if such ones are religious, it does not shy away from community first and others after.

Even to this day, as of recent news, they are still in Puerto Rico, helping out, as with others when the rest of the US forgot that Puerto Rico is still not 100%, those who got the video removed, you do not hear them speak of Puerto Rico at all.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

The money the Watchtower open-handedly accepts with no questions comes from companies that its members would be disfellowshipped for working for.  In fact, they may not be approved for baptism if working for a military company, when readying themselves to join the organization. 

Jehovah's Witnesses, mainly new ones to that faith, tend to work in any field of work, there is no doubt about that, however, when one becomes a dedicated member of their faith community, they make the choice themselves to make the change prior to baptism i.e. a police officer who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but later on makes this officer made choice to leave that job as a police officer for something else that would benefit him and his family, moreover, the job that he chooses has nothing to do with what he has done before, for this person I speak of in this example use to work as a policemen in one of the most dangerous cities in the Tri-State area, he himself originates South Africa (Bloemfontein).

Furthermore, when one takes the time to think and soon apply changes to his or her life and make the effort to live up to it, they themselves pave a path to baptism, especially when one takes in accurate knowledge of God and his Son. This practice is common to other minorities and also, for it is not alien to Jehovah's Witnesses for members to cease a profession and or practice that they themselves see as not Christian-like, but such a changes, for some takes place immediately and or over time. The remark you made about brothel, a prostitute can enter into the Kingdom of God as long as he abandons her ways, but such will take time and eventually she will learn of who God is, his Son and learn about the good gospel of the Kingdom and what it will bring, eventually, this one will be baptized, this one will be seen by God for making the effort, as well as the accomplishments this one makes to change her life, and with her experience on her change, she can minister to others who are dealing with making changes and wanting to apply biblical principles and law.

A person who works for such a company and or was formerly involved with even the likes of gangsters, or perhaps those who have been working as a sex worker in prostitution, which I made an example of above, those part of political and or governmental based groups, assassins for hire, and or some military faction, can become members of the faith and or learn what it takes to enter into God's Kingdom, to be recognized by God, but on their way to Baptism (death unto life, as portrayed in the origin of Baptism) they make drastic changes to who they are and their lifestyle and turn over a new leaf completely, this goes for career and or jobs that they themselves do not see as fitting for a follower of the teachings, the baptism is that important and to defile such will lead to problems, be it of the church and or God himself, for if anyone is familiar with the origin and history of Baptism, it is that serious. People from all walks of life put in the effort and have the time to think over baptism, thus in doing so they become part of the community, but at the very core, the Bible itself, God's Word, changes the lives of the person, thus in baptism, they become like living sacrifices to God to religiously be in service to him and to religiously worship in total servitude to him with total devotion, in addition, to those who express His Word they act as guides for such ones to teach them and so forth because these people take into account of what Jesus had entrusted them, so it is nothing too crazy as some have made claim to, hence it being common among in the realm of religion itself.

Other than that, it is no surprise the abilities of which Jesus Christ entrusted the church with, mainly when it comes to expelling also known as excommunication and how it's application is in our modern day, some take serious action with should someone fall into grounds of expelling (Takfir). Another interesting thing to add is those who take the Ten Commandments seriously hold to such a view themselves - if to have God abide with them they must make the change, they must go from death unto life, they must serve and worship, and spread the teachings of which has been commanded, making disciples out of people.

Lastly, seeing how all educational and religious institutions are, they do accept money open- handedly, donated money, not all the time they would question, they would simply give thanks and be on their way. I am sticking with what the former members say on this matter and the quotes integrated in my other response, those who are well aware on the difference between official tax returns vs. a tax return for a charitable trust (for this was called into question when Mr. Zelda mad the error to twist the information), as well as who owns what, and who is a beneficiary.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

It is hypocrisy and deceit, a fact kept until recently, from the rank and file who have believed it is only through their donations that Watchtower’s building projects are funded, as well as a preaching work that is taught as leading people out of the world and into a spiritual paradise.    

It is not hypocrisy and or deceitfulness, and as said before, this information was out there for years, and it is known by the Jehovah's Witnesses, some of them even making comment to claim, hence the mutual fund mention, that was from a Jehovah's Witness response to an Atheist, you even quoted that response from my comment, but no mention for what has been addressed when compared with facts that are true. Their donations, since they practice free will offering, like I said, not only it goes for their churches (build, repair and or rebuilds), but for their members, their books and publications, maintenance as well as providing for their own (I think the biggest amount known of which they have spent on their own members is around/over $70.9 million, caring their pioneers, missionaries, and traveling overseers in their gospel spreading assignments), anyways, it is no different from the early church for they themselves use whatever they receive to care for their own and progress in the Great Commission by means of spreading the gospel. Even in their early years, donations is what kept them running, from others and or from their own. Other things such as clothing, and other items are often donated to them, even that of houses and or buildings if it comes to that, gifts also, for there had been those outside of their faith to have given them physical and or financial gifts.

Also they do not apply and or practice the law of Levites (tithing), but what is in application to them is Free Will Offering Matthew 10:7, 8.

And yes, the good news gospel, Great Commission is indeed to teach people of what is to come, what the Spiritual House will bring, what God's Kingdom will do for mankind, and what God's chosen one will do, there is no surprise in that, for learning of such things it teaches one about what is to come that the world cannot offer, last I checked, the world cannot offer you life, for if you die, you die, only God's Kingdom can put an end to death, and death itself will be the last enemy that would be done away with, 1 Corinthians 15:26 (Revelations 20:14).

12 hours ago, Witness said:

Thank you for listing the companies. This scripture has a startling deeper meaning to me when applying it to the leaders of the Watchtower...

Yes. I listed them because all of them have proven false to the claims made, and I take the word of the one wanting to put the conspiracies to rest, he has succeeded, but disgruntled ones continue to rant and rave and stick to falsehood, thus confusing many in their wake, you included. All that has been listed were complied by disgruntled former members of Jehovah's Witnesses trying to trick others and even novice JWs who are fresh to the faith, to make claim that they are doing something they shouldn't be doing. What you yourself have mention also, is deemed false, one of them turning out to be a hoax itself among the list you have provided while the rest is conspiracy, it is highly unlikely that the Jehovah's Witnesses have anything to do with a gaming company - Nintendo, Women's Lingerie - Victoria's Secret, The US Navy - contract and connections to Rand Cam and the like, and the list goes on, and on.

Again, dwelling in conspiracy will make you believe in such and drive you mad and or confused, as with someone who is a very close source of mind who is well aware and observant of who are really of Babylon, conspiracy will drive a man to insanity, as he puts it, and this source of mind is reality wrong, mainly due to what he has professed Israel and Iran.

13 hours ago, Witness said:

“Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.  And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.  Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”  Luke 4:5-7

It would be true if the Watchtower was part of Babylon, but they are not for there is a lot of information of who is truly of the Devil and who is not, in addition, to who among Babylon is targeting and or persecuting, moreover, if they were, their own wouldn't have removed them in various countries, such as Russia, or even behead them, Iran and Egypt, they're own would not have robbed and or cheated them out of property and money, France, who was a key player in the Russia banning of the faith, let alone the FSB joint group who targets them and even puts up pictures and addresses of such ones to be targeted, according to my contacts in Russia. We must also take into account, God the Father is clearly not a fan of those who make false claims, in fact, he is said to be very serious on such issue, it is also wise to understand as to why Jesus called out to his Father to forgive even the likes of soldiers who clearly do not know any better, as seen in a passage in the Greek New Testament.

You can be the most righteous man on earth, but make false claims of person(s) will land you in front of the White Throne on Judgement Day, a position that would be far more hair raising than being met with a sword carrying Lamb of God along with the angels who follow his lead. This is why I say, many times, the best course of action is to remain neutral (like 1000%) with even the minorities, which includes JWs, especially when it comes to those who are Restorationist because it can lead to problems, mainly if we are accepting of false claims and conspiracy and the incite of religious infighting, even some who agree.disagree with JWs on a few points remain totally neutral with them because they too know how easily it make and or adhere to false claim, thus being subjected to judgement when the day comes, therefore, being very VERY careful is important, along with vigilance and endurance. So it is a safe bet to not engage in a boxing contest with God. The only thing we can deal with is accursed teachings that do not go according with the Bible, the Early Church, Early Christian brothers and sisters, example, the doctrine of the Trinity or the belief God is suddenly a fan of Molech, or perhaps that everyone is considered the first of the fruits (once saved always saved - all going to heaven), etc.

Very silly to waste time dealing with a religious minority when there are those out there who are teaching the accursed, those of Babylon, that has plagued Christendom with heresy, and apparently only those who are woke only his matter are doing as such, me included. Aside from that, I have knowledge in the Christology of others, even that of JWs, hence why I say what I say on things that I observe from them and research on. But I guess such ones are not aware of what it means to be God fearing and do not realize what path they continue to walk on.

Therefore, your application of the verse does not fit properly, when one understand of who and what this faith is and their structure.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Space Merchant,

If there is any possibility of a "weapon bunker", it would be at Warwick, not under kingdom halls.   Before that, the Brooklyn tunnels, maybe....  All speculation.?

Maybe this research will help.  http://www.die-vierte-wache.eu/EN/share-earnings-of-the-watchtower.html

The link, “Website of NCC” is broken

This is the one I used: https://nccs.urban.org/

No. Followers of Mr. Fearon stated weapons of such are found underneath the churches of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as other devices of assassination and or cold bloodied-murder, hence the claim of poisons used to their own members of the church to kill them off – absurd conspiracy. Moreover, the Warwick location of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, their headquarters, is also a place of dwelling and worship – a church (larger one on the countryside), it is highly unlikely that they harbor weapon bunkers underneath such a place, granted of how the people of Passaic and Orange County view firearms in the hand of suspected strangers and the like, swiftness to act also, even in their own neighborhood, for they did have an incident at one of their schools sometime ago, and took part in events regarding gun control, knowing people of Passaic County myself and the area itself for half a decade, very close to Orange County (Warwick), their words on such speaks in volume. Therefore, it is unlikely that a Millenarian Restorationist Christian Denomination, a minority, with Non-Trinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity, having a weapon bunker(s) hidden below their headquarters which is pretty much a large church. So a possibility is absolute 0.00%, and if such was indeed true, the Warwick facility would have been done away with, raided, raised and shut down, seeing how the people of the area are, mainly those in the Borough – again, conspiracy, but it is no surprise that Rick has some believing such things that even those who are not fan of JWs dislike.

As for Brooklyn, it is not a mystery that there are various tunnels underneath the city. The tunnels near the facility of this faith had tunnels connecting to pedestrian walkways that are private, the tunnels, being a series of 4-5 subterranean tunnels connecting several of the properties in that area, some of them used in regards of utility services. It is also good to mention how long those tunnels have been there for and the fact the city makes money off said tunnels, collecting thousands for their use.

Somewhat related to subject, it is also known JehovahÂ’s Witnesses have a presence in Pennsylvania, another area of theirs, and like the others, they do not have weapon bunkers,

however, there are churches of the mainstream of that area, who also have a following outside of Pennsylvania, who not only have a stash of weapons away in their churches, but freely carry them around the church, for they believe that guns, specifically, the AR-15 Assault Rifle is a gift from God and use them even in their ceremonies (they are Trinitarian for they believe Jesus is God), this has caused fear and quite the stir in the community, even having an affect on a nearby School and the actions they made due to such churches (not to mention the bullet laced crown of theirs):  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/

 

The same can be said about Christian Militant groups scattered throughout the United States, who are in favor of assault rifles, as well as quick draw weapons such as revolvers and pistols, granted such ones train themselves to fight, such falls in the category of Christian Terrorism.

Yes, The National Center for Charitable Statistics (NCCS) link is broken, in fact, 2 links not just 1, however the archives can freely be accessed, only few manage to gather, fragments of what ceases to exist, moreover, some information that can be accessed you really don’t have to be a member and/or create a login, especially when the information is out there for one to read and make the research for themselves.

Also I can spot the top Google search links away, I've been in the Lion's Den in search of information, so I know better to see that.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

We all know this Trust “supports the Watchtower”, and that this stock is “shared”,  but no one has them chained to it.  They freely profit from the listed companies, no matter what they stand for, no matter what they sell; and they have done so for a number of years now.   

The Raytheon Company was on the 2009 tax return (see link above) which is not available on Charity Navigator any longer.

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/386/386043103/386043103_201504_990PF.pdf

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/386/386043103/386043103_201504_990PF.pdf

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/386/386043103/386043103_201604_990PF.pdf

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/386/386043103/386043103_201704_990PF.pdf

 

It is also good to know some facts about Henrietta M. Riley (33b006006 FBO), the Trust itself and the like. The Riley Trust that is independent, for the trust was hers, not the WatchtowerÂ’s. This trust is a United States trust that has the Watchtower as the sole beneficiary.

Now, a Trust can be set up to make you the individual, a company (of any kind), an organization of any kind (education, religious, etc.) or anyone else a beneficiary. For one has no control over what the Trust does financially, mainly if they are a beneficiary. The only thing that you or any beneficiary can do is to decline any benefit from the Trust in question. A Trust is able to operate while the person who initiated the Trust very much alive and well. Another known fact about the trust in question, the Riley Trust, is that it has done its investing prudently, acting with or showing care and thought for what is to come.

Moreover, this Trust is a mutual fund and mutual funds are typically fluid and careful with their investments. Basically, for the assets left by Henrietta Riley is the generating force regarding income by the trust, which is transferred to the Watchtower by means of donation. Around April 30, 2002, the trust generated income of around $1,740,127 USD and donated nearly $1,945,645 USD to the Watchtower. Majority of the income of the trust is from two main sources such as oil and gas. The trust also has almost $2 million of investments in various stocks and other vehicles.

Regarding the Watchtower, they, have received a donation (as mentioned above), and it is already known that the Watchtower accepts donations, for such ones do not apply the law of Levites on to themselves, known as the tithe, which does not apply to Christians (Hebrews 7:5, 18; Colossians 2:13, 14), but free will offering is acceptable in its place – voluntary, Leviticus 23:38 (Deuteronomy 12:6, Numbers 29:39,1 Chronicles 29:9, 2 Chronicles 35:8 and Ezra 2:68), so it is no surprise they do what the early Christians have done to contribute to their works without being paid for it, but receive/make voluntary donations.

Furthermore, one, if not more, Trust(s) have a number of religious organizations including the Watchtower itself. In addition, it would be unlikely they are aware of what a trust tends to invest in, but it is no mystery they tend to accept donations, regardless.

Back on to the Riley Trust, it tends to shift their investment information and the stock selection changes as time progresses. It is also known that the Riley trust is also the source of the Philip Morris Companies Inc, an accusation against the Watchtower, which is also shrouded in conspiracy and has been debunked.

Another accusation is that it is said, by those clearly against them, that The Watchtower has used stocks, bonds and trusts as investment vehicles. One such trust was the H M Riley Trust, from the deceased estate of Henrietta Riley, when it is known that the Riley Trust itself was given to the Watchtower, financial donation, as for stocks and bounds, the answer should be evident. Another accusation is that it is said that the stocks in Phillip Morris is owned by the Watchtower, then in reality, the stocks in question is owned by the Henrietta Riley Trust, not the Watchtower.

Another thing is it would seem some have caused confusion of the official tax returns vs. a tax return for a charitable trust, which is a separate entity created with somebody else's money, is ever so evident. And once again, like the Henrietta Riley trust, the money invested is hers. Under tax laws of the United States, the beneficiary of such a trust has no say in the management of the trust. It is managed by a trust company and regulated by the legal instructions of the person who established the trust, in this case Ms. RileyÂ’s Trust.

JW opponents are even unsure themselves at times, and consider Riley to be a member of the faith, but would seem it is a guessing game for them to this day. But as with all who receive donations, be it this faith and or other groups and or organizations, they tend to not have any control over what people gift to them.

Source from 12 years ago by someone who is neutral with JWs, and clearly among one of the speakers of the former members of the faith (links may be updated): https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/109731/setting-record-straight-re-riley-trust-tobacco-compan-stock-wts

Quote

I have no interest in pontificating on this matter which to me seems so straightforward. However, since I continue to see newbies and others periodically post in error stating that the WTS "owns" Tobacco company stock I believe that this should be corrected and the matter put to rest, hopefully for good.

FACTS:

 

• 1) ANYONE, (who is lawfully eligible) may create a trust for the benefit of a charity, religious organization, person, etc. In most cases, the beneficiaries have no operational control of the trust or the trust holdings and often are largely unaware of the compilation of the trust assets. This is especially true in the case of charities or religious organizations, where all that they would receive from the trustee, would be the charitable donation on an annual basis.

 

• 2) In 1997 a trust was created by a private individual, Henrietta Riley, entitled the "H.M. Riley Trust For Watch Tower Bible." This trust is a 501(c)3 federally tax-exempt entity whose sole beneficiary is the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. (Fed tax exempt organizations that are not otherwise exempt must file 990 Forms with the I.R.S. and the H.R. Trust has been filing these since 1998.)

 

• 3) Riley is what is known as the Settlor of the trust and presumably is either a Witness or sympathetic to the WTS. There has never been any evidence that Ms. Riley was personally aware of the assets of the trust or ever attempted to exercise any control over the trust holdings.

 

• 4) The Trustee and manager of the trust is Comerica Bank of Detroit, M.I. whose personnel spend approximately 2 hrs a week administering the trust and which received in 2004 $1,210.00.

 

• 5) There is no evidence that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, or any official of the WTS has ever had any control over the assets of the trust or even knowledge of the trust holdings.

 

• 6) The trust assets as of April 30, 2005 consisted of approximately 48% Oil & Gas Royalties (from owned or leased Oil/Gas wells I assume) and the remainder of the assets in Corporate Stocks (22%), Corporate Bonds (14%) & Mutual Funds (16%).

 

• 7) Until June 24, 2002, the Trust held 350 Shares of Phillip Morris Companies (maker of Nabisco crackers and yes, cigarettes too). The value of these stocks as of April 30, 2002 were $54.43 each or a total asset worth of $19,050.00. [These shares were listed in the Asset Description section of the 990 Filings under "Consumer Staples"]

 

• ? On June 24, 2002, these 350 shares in Phillip Morris Co. were sold at a market rate of $49.53 each ($17,335.50).

 

• 9) As of June 24, 2002, the H.M. Riley Trust has not reported holding any shares in Phillip Morris. [But the trust does hold shares in other interesting companies such as Pfizer, Harley Davidson, GE, Procter & Gamble, & WalMart among others) There is no way of knowing what motivated the sale, whether the Trustee was directed to sell the stock by Riley, or whether Comerica just made a wise decision to sell off a falling stock (from $54.43 to $49.53 in two months).

 

• 10) In 2004 the WTS received $1,774,331.00 in charitable contribution from the trust.

 

• 11) A beneficiary of a trust, in a situation such as this, may refuse to receive the contribution and that is the only option regarding the trust.

PROOF of the above (financial) facts can be found by your going to Guidestar.org (https://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx) and looking up the H.R. Riley Trust.

The 990s are available to free users for the years 2003-2005. Archived years require premium membership. The filing for 2002 was the last year of the Phillip Morris stock ownership.
The detail of the assets transactions of the 2003 filing contains the info regarding the sale of the 350 shares of Phillip Morris Co.

DISCUSSION:

brief responses to a couple of most recent commenters:

From Rebel8:

As to Eduardo's post.....he has stated his opinion many times in countless threads on the tobacco topic. Then a handful of posters respond by saying, "The WTS should check into their investments and not invest in something that could lead to breaking their own rules. They require JWs to do that." And there is no defense to that.
I will post this, again:

By considering the background of a company, an investor can also ensure that his money will not be used to support an unethical enterprise.—See Awake! February 8, 1962, pages 21-3.

-- As should be completely clear from the facts, the WTS is not an INVESTOR in this situation. An Investor is the person who makes the decisions. Thus both the arguments of some referred to by Rebel8 and the Society's own statement regarding what an INVESTOR should do, do not apply to this situation where it is not an Investor but merely the beneficiary of someone else's investments.

From Legolas:

Ok just hold on there a second.....First, I am in trust for my childrens stock that they own ( that my father gave the kids when they where little) and I could have REFUSED to do that, and secondly I can sell that stock, thirdly do you really believe the that bullshit story that they, FOR OVER 14 -16 YEARS NEVER knew they had it?
BULLSHIT!..... I get in my mail quarterly checks from that stock yearly...Not to mention about 3-4 other pieces mail from it yearly!

-- As should be completely clear from the facts, Legolas is a TRUSTEE (what Comerica Bank is in the H.R. Riley Trust). The WTS does not have any administrative authority over the H.R. Riley Trust and no evidence has ever been put forth to show that anyone at the WTS has ever researched the filed 990s to ascertain just what the Trust assets consist of.

(As to the 14-16 years comment, I don't know what Legolas is referring to?)

Given that the WTS is no doubt receiving similar contributions from many such trusts and other planned giving sources, it is extremely unlikely that they do anything but say "thank you" and cash the checks.

------------------------------

Ok, a few comments:

I have stated previously that in an ideal world, an organization which holds itself out to be the sole one being used by God today, should hold itself to extremely high standards, perhaps as close to perfection as possible.

Thus it would seem that the ideal would be that EVERY DOLLAR that the Society agrees to receive would be vetted in some way so that it could claim with absolute certainty that it was supported by "clean" money -- money that was not derived from immoral or illegal enterprises.

The problem with such an ideal situation is three-fold.

• First, it would be impractical if not impossible to know the origin of every dollar or in a case such as this to monitor the trust fund manager's to insure that they NEVER invested, even for a short time, in a company that would be on the questionable or prohibited WTS list.
• Second, there is no such thing as a clean dollar or a clean company. Even otherwise unobjectionable companies have ethical problems, wrongdoing, or are otherwise connected or affiliated in some way with what would be an objectionable company or associate. (Everything is connected people and like the House that Jack Built, one need only follow enough steps to connect one thing to another.)
• Third, even the Jewish Temple and Christian churches then and now accept donations from sinners such as prostitutes, murderers, metalsmiths (weapon's makers), druggists, etc. Scripturally speaking the only instance ever recorded where a donation was not directly accepted was the 30 silver pieces of Judas which the Jewish leaders rejected but used to purchase a field for the burial of criminals and the indigent (thus making some use of it after all).

Returning to the situation at hand....

A whole lot of wind has been made about the 350 shares of PM stock that were held in the Trust for a period of at most 5 years. The total value of approx $20 K represents a tiny fraction of the total trust assets not too mention actual payout to the WTS from these shares.

Are we going to start misapplying scriptures such as "A little leaven spoils the whole..." and "He that is faithful in little is faithful in much" in order to point a finger at the Society.

[As an aside JWs misuse the later scripture all the time and give it the opposite meaning as if the scripture actually read: "He that is unfaithful in little will be unfaithful in much" but that is a logical fallacy and a complete misreading of the scripture which is describing how a righteous person is consistent in their behaviour.]

Anyway only the most biased dishonest person, in my opinion, would fail to see just how ridiculous it would be to blame or disparage the Society for accepting a contribution because it so happened that within the entire trust of a net value of over $2 Million there was $20K that was owned in a company which - incidently has a mixture of "objectionable" (tobacco) and unobjectionable subsidiary companies (Nabisco, et al.).

But let us for the sake of discussion, assume that someone at the Society knew that there were PM shares held within the trust. (During the period when PM stock was held in the trust.)

Again the only option would be to refuse the donation. Is that truly reasonable?

I don't believe that it is either reasonable nor even hypocritical.

The reason that I say it is not HYPOCRITICAL is because what the Society has stated regarding morality and investing has been about how an INVESTOR should act.

Regarding tobacco itself as a bad thing, it is comparing apples and oranges to equate moral statements regarding use of such a harmful product with receiving some benefit because others have used that product or invested in the companies that make it.

To analogize, we all derive significant benefit from the taxation upon cigarettes. Should we refuse the government programs or services that are in a tiny fraction funded from the taxes paid by the users of cigarettes? Of course not.

It is not a moral contradiction for me to enjoy the benefits of taxation of tobacco and for me to tell users of tobacco that they are doing something wrong.

What I have found AMAZING during this whole 5 year saga regarding the headlines of opposers to the WTS who are using the headlines "Watchtower OWNS Tobacco Company stock" and the like is the sheer IGNORANCE of such ones.

Do such ones NOT realize that if they so desired they could go open up a bank trust acct today and place into it a single stock of every "objectionable" company from Phillip Morris, to Playboy Enterprises to the Al Qaeda Support Fund (I made that last one up), to Fox Corp (ouch!), to Vivid Video, etc.. Just make the acct "For the benefit of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society" and Bingo! suddenly you can claim that the WTS is supported by all of these companies.

The Society could not prevent anyone from doing the above And you know what? The Society would probably cash the checks that you send because they are a charity, a religious org, and ljust ike ALL religious orgs they are entitled to accept money from the worst apostates if they so desire.

BOTTOMLINE:

The facts show that not even the Riley trust holds any stock in Tobacco Companies and hasn't since mid-2002, so please stop spreading the lie that the WTS is currently benefiting from such an arrangement or that it OWNs tobacco company stock, because for one thing it NEVER did own the stock in the H.R. Riley trust.

(It may be that some of its own holdings are in questionable companies but unfortunately we may never know unless we can get to the books.)

Get a little educated about the difference between an Investor, a Settlor, a Trustee and the Beneficiary of any such trusts.

Recognize that there is no such thing as a "clean dollar" that is morally untainted. All money is a product of this world and all jobs, companies, etc. are connected in some way. Drawing the line here or there, is the same kind of bad behavior that JWs engage in when they are judgmental about certain types of employment or ways people make a living.

And FINALLY, Unless you are willing to acknowledge that the Society, WTS, Jehovah's Witnesses ARE MORALLY SUPERIOR in other areas to everyone else (and I am not ready to do that) THEN PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HOLD THEM to a morally superior standard when it comes to this area of receiving donations from others because they are just like everyone else and they are entitled to receive donations from the righteous and the unrighteous.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

And yes, because those who donate are not normally known to the person and or group that receives the donation, mainly when such is anonymous, the only reason the Riley Trust is known because the owner of said Trust literally donated to the religious group (a choice made by owner, no doubt) in question, not really deception and or a mystery, but many tend to twist the information and stick to one-sided information, hence the top searched links provided by you.

The Raytheon Company one, as stated before, is deemed a hoax, thus being a conspiracy, moreover, the Watchtower clearly has no connection to the Navy and or some kind of contract with them, for that alone would be absurd. Unless you got accurate information on Navy Contracts and or deals, as some who cite what you mention have said – I am all ears.

The charitable navigator availability was around 2002, not sure about 2003.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

For 2017, there is not a comprehensive list of companies as do the other returns, but only the title, “Various Stock Funds”.  The GB must be getting nervous.  ?  At one time, these documents were available on Charity Navigator back to 2003, I believe.

I typed in Watchtower Bible and Tract Society just to see what pulled up.  Interestingly, I am guessing a rogue kh, in Cortez, CO was available for donations.  Is this the new “donation arrangement”?  Are they getting that desperate?  Cortez is a very small town, and having been there many times, there isn’t any Watchtower complex on the edge of the Colorado/New Mexico/Utah border to warrant the need to rake in charity monies.  

You may already be aware of WatchtowerÂ’s interest in Rand Cam:

https://www.watchtowerlies.com/watchtower_owns_warfare_technology.html

See the sources at the bottom of the page

 

I donÂ’t think they are getting desperate because they are still growing, I believe around 8.4 million members now and growing fast I checked, and the money they have now has been building more churches and contributing to their missionary work, again, for that is what the majority of their money is used for, anything to contribute to the Great Commission, mainly in the eyes of Restorationist, I believe I brought up Great Commission to you before. As for the religious heads of this faith, it does not seem like they are nervous when the work is being done, for if they were nervous, such information would have caused them to stumble some years ago, for as I said, such claims have been debunked time and time again, even by those who are former members and or neutral.

For the donations, as said before, such ones accept donations, regardless, so there isn’t really a new arrangement, perhaps just another person with money who decided to contribute to a person, group and or organization of his or her choice, just happens to be the Watchtower. They may not have a big area like they have in Warwick, but there are JW churches in that area, there is no question about that, for there is always a JW church, with a variety of languages other than English that goes there. The churches of Jehovah’s Witnesses are as common as the Fast Food Restaurants such as McDonald’s, Burger King and Wendy’s – all over the place. If one of their churches goes down, they build it back up, if they sell one of their churches, they end up building another elsewhere, after all, they have the financial ability to do such, at the same time maintaining themselves in the realm of Great Commission Missionary work.

As for the so called source on the bottom of the page, I had already seen it, as well as the other information that counters such. Ironically, the truth itself comes not from the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses, but former members who are well aware of how Trust, Funds and donations work by those who own it and how it is handled when someone and or a group is chosen as a beneficiary.

Perhaps next time, it is best to read into something more than accept as is conspiracy, which was the case before, some of the links you posted came from top Google searches, which is no surprise, I took the other route, into the LionÂ’s Den, and the evident religious infighting in such a place is visible, mainly to those who profess actual information to claim.

Also I completed the list for you, majority having been spoken of and dissected upon – with the actual truth out of conspiracy being made known (that of which has been mentioned is also included), moreover, in the span of 3 to 19 years, perhaps more, such has been talked about:

Note: There was a Girl ScoutÂ’s Cookie one, that one was a bit silly.

All below have been dealt with over time, even the ones included. Yes I am aware of Rand Cam, fits the bill like the others, friend. And I am 100% sure JWs had nothing to do with the destruction of Christians in the Middle East either.

• Adobe Sys Inc
• Amazon Com Inc
• American Express Co
• American-Intl Inc
• Nintendo
• Apple Inc
• Avery Dennison Corp
• Bank of America Corp
• Victoria Secret
• Baxter Intl Inc
• Berkshire Hathaway CL B
• BioGen Idec Inc
• Blackrock Inc
• Boeing Co
• Bristol Myers Squibb Co
• Celgene Corp
• Conocophillips
• Constellation Brands Inc
• Devon Energy Corporation
• Disney Walt Co
• Dow Chemical Co
• EOG Resources Inc
• Ecolab Inc
• Express Scripts Hldg Co
• Facebook Inc
• Fisery Inc
• General Electric Co
• Gilead Sciences Inc
• Google Inc CL C
• Harbor Intl FD
• Hershey Co Common Stock
• Home Depot Inc
• Honeywell International Inc
• International Flavors
• Johnson & Johnson
• Kansas City Southern
• Kimberly Clark Corp
• Kraft Foods Group Inc
• Lions Gate Entertainment Corp
• Lockheed Martin Corp
• MFS Intl New Discovery
• AMG Southernsun Small Cap-Inst
• Medtronic Inc
• Merk & Co Inc New
• Microsoft Corp
• Molson Coors Brewing Co CL B
• Monsanto Co
• Monster Beverage Corp
• Morgan Stanley
• Newell Rubbermaid Inc
• Nike Inc
• Nothrup Grumman Corp
• Oppenheimer Developing Markets Fund - Y
• PNC Financial Services Group
• Pepsico Corp Inc
• Pfizer Inc
• Principal Midcap Blend
• Procter & Gamble Co
• Qualcomm Inc
• Rollins Inc
• Roper Inds Inc New
• Starbucks Corp
• Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc
• Time Warner Inc
• United Technologies Corp
• Verizon Communications
• Viacom Inc
• Visa Inc
• Wabtec Corp
• Wells Fargo & Co New
• Lazard Ltd
• Fixed Income
• BHP Finanace USA Ltd
• Federal Home LN BKS
• Lowes CCS Inc
• Merk & Co Inc
• Microsoft Corp
• Oppenheimer Intl bond
• Pimco Total Return FD Instl
• Pimco High Yield FD Instl
• Proctor & Gamble Co NT
• Target Corp
• Vanguard S/T Corporate FD-ADM
• Alternative Investments
• The Arbitrage Fund R
• Cohen & Steers Realty SHS
• Federated Prudent Bear Fund
• Absolute Strategies Fund
• Goldman Sachs TR Strategic Income FD
• NY FDS Inc Asset Strategy FD CL
• Mainstay FDS TR Market Field Fund
• Pimco Commodity RR Strat Ins Strategy Fund-Ins

I will make more comments, but on the military response, for there is quite the information out there, as always, most information is one-sided, it is never a share of both sides, obviously.

 

On 7/13/2018 at 10:50 PM, Cos said:

There is no mistake; Christ did not cease to exist when He was executed on the cross. The “ransom sacrifice” as some like to call it was by the shedding of His blood. The idea that death means you cease to exist is another clear example of how some will read into Scripture what has no biblical support.

The Christ did cease, to put it simple, him being corruptible had tasted death like any other man, but him being sinless opens a door that a born sinner could not, that being said, mainly if you understand what him being the Firstborn out of the Dead even means, if Christ did not cease, him, being the temple and or foundation, that would defeat the purpose of why he is called as such in the Bible itself. Indeed, some call it as such, they also refer to this a sacrifice, and or substitutionary atonement, so basically it is somewhat of a ransom, if you understand the context leading up to and of Jesus' death, then in turn, his resurrection. So technically speaking, all of those of mankind, those, well all, considered to have inherited sin and death as a result of Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden via disobedience, God's law requires that only the sacrificial death of a perfect, sinless human can atone the Adamic sin, in addition, faith in the ransom of Christ Jesus, known as The Last Adam (Second Adam) is regarded as the only way to atone for sin and escape death, even opens doors to forgiveness of sin and the like, as well as the New Covenant.

Other than that, death is a cease of all activity, for death itself is the obvious opposite of life. When you die, you die, to dust you cometh, to dust you returnth, and in death you have no sort of function and or consciousness whatsoever - hence the term, Pangs of Death.

God took Jesus out of the pangs of death by means of loosening it's grip on His Son, thus resurrecting the Lord himself - Risen Christ (Acts 2:24).

On 7/13/2018 at 10:50 PM, Cos said:

Just as when they say the Holy Spirit is not a Person but a “power” with no biblical support. And then regardless of any rationality will claim that all the many times the Scriptures demonstrate the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, they say that these are personifications.

There is biblical support, and it has been said a number of times, pages back, as well as full description of what it is. The nail to this personhood of the Holy Spirit is what Stephen had mentioned, that alone debunks the idea of the Holy Spirit being a Person, let alone, God. Other than that is is rather silly to make the claim in regards to 14 and 16 of John when one can easily understand the Greek Language Forms, and it is absurd to use Paul and others as examples when testimony and affirmation is as clear as day in this regard.

Therefore, the correction has been made.

On 7/13/2018 at 10:50 PM, Cos said:

Some as usual go into a long incoherent tirade and avoid (play down) what Jesus says to maintain a false idea that is read into the Scriptures, and then they will later go on to claim that that “has already been addressed”. <><

Think of it as you like, the information is both fact and true, after all, it was on your part such long detailed information was posed in such discussions to begin with. Jesus did indeed say to read into the scriptures, and he asks of us to believe in the one who has sent him, never has Jesus made the claim he is his Father and or something accursed, for it is known to everyone in this day and age of who Jesus is, and who is his Father.

That being said, the information in full detail it so show even to the guests who come here what is truth and what is not truth, with included Greek sources of Language forms of which you had made the choice to ignore and repeat yourself like a busted record, but it is true as to what they say, the truth hurts, and the truth is not for everyone, therefore, expect an actual detailed based source on the Holy Spirit in the coming weeks.

@Witness I have, but such has been rooted in conspiracy and misleading, the others you have made mention of I have done the research, and the result is of something you yourself may not be in favor for, granted such information did come on the side of both the Anti-Religious as well as from former Jehovah's Witnesses themselves who professed such information. Moreover, I now have access to an archive of information in relations with some, if not most of what you made mention of. That is why I asked you to cite a source because it is one thing to say something, but when one finds the information, they see something entirely different. That being said, the words of a former JW who spoke on such: a hoax.

The same should be said of weapon bunkers set up under the JW church, the drinking of chemical based poison, sent by the WT to the churches, to lead people to paradise, promptly assassination of members as it is claimed, as well as the claim made of wedding rings in connection with sexual based symbolism in the realm of paganism.

But if you want to bring up more conspiracy, please do, for it only allows one to make note of the research, mainly when it comes to donation money coming from unknown parities to those in acceptance of said donations, which does not limit to a sole group and or member.

@AllenSmith34 Indeed, this is why it is always important to look at the translations, compare it to the source and the Strong's. I immediately see what the NLT version has done, for the original verse uses both 7223 and 8269.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course. But if Bible is word of God, not of man and  "how they (man) spoke and how they (man) understood things", but a God's word, the letter to all humankind in all periods of time - Why He not inspired writers to writing words and sentences in a simple way to be understandable for all.

Or, if God's  intention is not for all to understand, but few who then would be religious leaders and interpreting "the truths" to the flock?   

The Bible is the Word of God, thus making it inspired for everything written is inspired, moreover, some translations are done in respects to the oldest source. What is not inspired is what came about years upon years after the Word of God was made known. Example, no mention of Jesus saving an adulterous woman, John 7:53-8:11 (Pericope adulterae), yet moving on to the 16th century, such a passage is found in the translated Bible known as the KJV, the older source and the early Church made no mention of such an event taking place on the Mount of Olives. Unless you have a valid reason to profess that translators such as Sir Francis Bacon and others wrote what is inspired into the text when such has not existed to begin with?

God's intent is very clear and explicit, there is no reason to not understand God's Word of which we read in the scriptures itself. As for understanding, those who are religious and those who are not, the majority knows this, this goes for readers of the Qu'ran, who have studied the Bible and knows such, but there are those who know and hide the truth, trying to paint anything uninspired as truth when in reality it is not, the very reason why some Bibles omitted forgeries as well as  revert a verse back to it's original form.

God himself has said to not add to His Word as seen in the Torah/OT Deuteronomy 4:2 and even his Son spoke of this, that the scriptures cannot be broken and or nullified, John 10:35.

You'd be surprised of how much the mainstream, mainly those who speak of Jesus to be God, of how much they hide such information. But what to expect those who do not make the attempt to follow that of the early Church, the teachings and so forth, those that consider God's Laws to be a joke and or pushing others to abandon some Laws and or what is entrusted.

As for the flock that is of the Shepherds, they know this truth, mainly those among the flock of people who do the research on the Bible's original source vs. the later additions coming from a man-made source that God had no connection with. If you take the time to research Bible forgeries, that would answer many questions for you.

That being said, what I have said is true, for that is how things have been understood in those days, that is why I brought up the practices of such ones even God himself in Moses case, as with Abraham, and they are but two examples out of many.

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

--- in short and concise words, please explain me what do you mean by expression "inspired Bible text"?

Inspired Text of the Bible itself that has not been changed, forged and or added, being of the oldest source and the only source of which we have of which the Bible originates from, it is considered inspired.

In a simple sense, the Word of God which has not been altered and or tampered with.

Example:

Original verse vs. Forgery

• Inspired Text 4th Century: For there are three that testify:
• Uninspired Text 16th Century: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You can also look this up here to see who is using the inspired and or uninspired: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/1 John 5%3A7

Reason found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations#(16)_First_John_5:7-8

Original vs. Added Verse:

• Inspired Text 4th Century:  Does not exist because was not found in the oldest source
• Uninspired Text 16th Century: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You can also look this up here to see who is using the inspired and or uninspired: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts 8:37

Reason found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations#(11)_Acts_8:37

This is why many in the past, even JWs come to the discovery of what the KJV translators had done, thus most revised translations remove and or omit uninspired text/verses from the Bible.

@Srecko Sostar My friend, that is because in ancient times that is how they spoke and how they understood things, that is what Shaliach means, the same applies to God having Angels, prophets and His Son who are his representatives and or spokesman, representing the Father, if you will, today, that in itself is refereed to Angelic Agency, since this has to do with God, Jesus and Spirit Beings.

Only a few practice such today, but try this in the middle of New York, people will look at you crazy, however, those in a position of authority tend to stick with this application, example would be the president of the US to those who sit on his table to carry out an action and or message, those who bring forth this message and or action are already recognized as to whom have sent them.

The example I made in response was basic, but the meaning is there. People and or a group understands such messages as such, we can take this same example in regards to Moses, for God spoke to Moses by means of the burning bush, we know an Angel was present and God spoke through that Angel, afterwards, Moses brought forth the message, the Israelite knew that what Moses was saying, was of God, granted these people were afraid of God to begin with, thus prompting Moses to be the first mediator in the Hebrew Old Testament.

@AllenSmith34 The Bible speaks of many nobles, Lords, princes and leaders, however among all of them there is but one who is the great one and the leader, this one is God's chosen one, and is above all due to authority and power given to him, in addition to this one's position as the Chief Angel. Archangel, however, is never mention in plural form, occurrences being 2-3 times I believe, and it is often in singular form. But that is correct, just as all of elohim are called gods and or godlike ones, even among them, such ones are called princes, leaders and nobles, but only one stands up among all of them.For Jesus, also being both Michael/Immanuel, has this title Prince of Peace, which tells us that the Christ/Messiah will be given this title, coming from Isaiah 9:6 in respects to the customs of the Jews regarding given names. The reason of this title -  because the authority, the government that God will place on his shoulders will be a peace without end.

16 minutes ago, Witness said:

One down, and many more to go. 

Then cite them here since you are the one to bring it up. I would also like to mention there are many, if not dozens more, who take some of Pearl's interpretation of things in error. There is no question on some things she is right, but other things on the more important side of the spectrum she holds little understanding of and or profess error of such.

Other than that, Rick Fearon does not represents and or supports no one but he himself, and has been called out on such time and time again over the years, the only reason I know who he is, is due to the wedding rings claim to which in discussion, a follower of Fearon had been refuted on the claims made, I still have refutation notes saved.

On 7/3/2018 at 4:05 AM, Jesus.defender said:

No serious greek or hebrew scholar takes the nwt seriously.

There is some that do, but their say is often drowned out by mainstream Trinity beveling scholars who claim to be Christians.

Other than that John 1:1 does not prove Jesus is God mainly if you take the verse and introduction of John into context, in addition to what the Torah had made mention of a coming prophet that is to have God's Word in him and this Word he speaks of to the people, as seen in John chapter 4.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Here we go again.  I didn’t say that, did I!   

Regarding stockpiling weapons and a bunker, I haven’t investigated the possibility, but it leaves one thinking.  Since the Watchtower has and holds shares in military companies/corporations…

Raytheon Company

Lockheed Martin

Armor Holdings

United Technologies Corp

Northrup Grumman Corp

Boeing

BAF Systems Inc

and more…

it wouldn’t be such a far-fetched idea, now would it.

Clearly I said such in question since you yield support of Rick Fearon and the proof of such even stems from the very community of which you tend to pull the information from. Like I said, they do not stockpile weapons to go on a shooting spree should they choose it. Also if you are going to make mention of things, rather cite the information. Lastly, I recognize Raytheon Company, the reality here is, this has been debunked a decade ago even by JW opponents, I only know this because I began studying Christian minorities in my youth, so I hope what you will bring to the table is accurate.

Other than that, Rick Fearon, according to some JWs, ExJws, Anti-Christians, agnostics and among the non religious, is false in what he says, even by one who is very close to this man. None of them supports Rick, and there is enough reasons as to why this is.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

She DOES teach that Michael is Jesus.  Apparently, you really have no idea what she teaches.  

I do have an idea of what she professes, yet some of what she says contradict one thing for something else, perhaps on purpose or by mistake; and or says otherwise, the same can be said about Heavenly Jerusalem, of which was brought up here to which such has been traced back to her.

Like I said, she sheds no information of early Church and or Christians who hold this belief, unless you are willing to put such information here rather the a question/reply.