Space Merchant

No, not multiple topics, you brought up James White, I simply made mention of everyone who not only refuted James White, but those who refute the Trinity itself. I do not care if you reply to me or not, I make responses direct and or indirectly, for this is evident. If you do not follow him, then why play his game? Let alone bring support about the Trinity by bringing up an old video of his that has been refuted up and down Hyde Park? You say you do not follow any man but you take up strongly to Christian Infighting, a design of men. Also you didn't quote Mr. White, you posted his video to justify the Trinity, if you quoted him there would be several quotes in his name rather than a video to prove a belief - know the difference. He does because he believes in the Trinity, he also believed that Mary didn't mean what she said when she met with Gabriel and that the Laws of the Jews were not that important, hence his Trinitarian stance, example he eludes John 17 when speaking of John 10:30 and acts like a bully to anyone who proves him wrong, for White is known to go after the inexperienced and even advocates for Infighting, the very reason why people steppe up against him and refute him greatly. Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, they do not adhere to the mainstream Christian practices, they adhere to the practices of the early Church of the 1st century, if they are anti-Christians, they why bring up those who explain the Trinity when they too speak of the early church of which they do not follow? Hypocritical. As for spitting out the bones, the hungriest of men will devour both meat and bone in order to survive. Does not matter how many Trinitarians you throw, they all have been refuted in the past and discovered for some falsehood. Robert Morey (pastor), He is the founder of the unaccredited California Biblical University and Seminary as well has his strong hate for Islam and those that practice it, and he enacts and prompts Christian Infighting who do not share his belief You cannot preach about love then go around your own back and preach that blasphemers should get the worse coming for them, that is a message that does not even sit well with most Trinitarians, which is fact. Walter Ralston Martin is an American Baptist Christian minister, to some extent, more of a Protestant also and somewhat of an odd interest in the Trinity believing version of Jehovah's Witnesses known as the Seventh-Day Adventist. This pastor has quite the controversy around him and deeming everyone has cultist for not sharing His view of mainstream Christendom, in regards to the Watchtower, it is and will always be known that Restorationist like them, do not follow that of mainstream Christendom, hence the claims and attacks coming from Mr. Martin. He is only brought up by former JWs in order to prove a faulty point, rarely he is mention as much on those who share his belief. Mr. Martin, like Morey, share a connection in the Kairos Movement, this movement being of Babylon. Ravi Zacharias is no different from the other two, but he is a hardcore Trinitarian, I only know of him because of a Youtuber named Mario aka The Vigilant Christian, of whom I refuted years ago, for anyone who proves Mario wrong, he make lies and hate messages towards such a person, he got his just deserts last year though when exposed. Anyways, Ravi is a strong advocate of the Kairos Movement like his current day counterparts and the late ones it should be known to you by now those who dislike JWs also do not want any part of the Kairos Movement, it is no surprise you post Ravi's video to prove your belief, not realizing what he is in connection with. Moreover, he has a strong bases with the the Charismatic Preachers scene. Jeff Durbin, it is no surprise you are a fan, I made mention of this false teacher for his defense on a practice that has a strong connection to Druidism and Shamanism and a whole mixed bag of other things. What I have already said about this pastor I need not say again, another thing to mention for a pastor who says he is of God why be part of something that caused ESRB to even exist in the realm of video games, for there is a reason why you see E,T,M, etc. for a very very gore-filled and violent game was the cause of it, and a pastor, Jeff Durbin, had involvement in such a game. A man of God does not play a game or add his talents to a game such as Mortal Kombat, it would seem this pastor, was awed by the tearing of one's skull and spine from one's body. Other than that, Jeff is a Trinitarian, to make matters worse, he teaches to ignore God's Laws, which was the case with the post made by Matthew69 a while back, and I only brought it up when I mistaken Shwili for Matthew. What all these pastors have in common is the Kairos Movement, the very religious movement in connection with E.I.I. that seeks to gather all religious leaders as well as promote a gospel that differs from the Bible itself, twisting the Bible even, and everyone knows such a group is the religion of the Harlot, the very one that consist of false teachers. Perhaps next time, try looking up someone who has no connection to such a Movement, lastly, some laws that is NOT of Christian origin, such pastors and their churches practice, an example would be adding the Law of Levities inside the Church when this Law is NOT something to be applied by Christians, this is but one of many things. As much as I do not like James White for seeing the Law as nothing special and or of importance, this man is not a Calvanist, nowhere have I seen him speak of TULIP in a respect he shows to the belief of a Triune God. It's no surprise you through the man under the boss despite trying to prove your belief with his information, the same can be said of the others, if anything, Jeff Durbin himself is a Calvanist, mainly when you look into what he had said in regards to his interpretation of John chapter 6. Deserter, I know every teacher, pastor, bishop, scholar, early father, women ministers of bible times, etc. In the way I was brought up, to tame the fire you must understand it, in this sense, I know of every teacher there is, those who make the effort to follow the Bible, those who are confused, those who are far from Bible truth, etc, and all the pastors you have mentioned, are clearly far from the truth, they adhere to the Trinity doctrine when they believe that even the early church was not Trinitarian, they are not really fans of the Law of God, as seen with Jeff and James, and lastly, these men all share a connection in the religion of Babylon, the tendrils of said religion lies in E.I.I, Lucis Trust, and anything of and or connected to The Kairos Movement. So I welcome you to try and refer and or post information from a Pastor that share the same belief as you that is NOT of the Kairos Movement an or have anything connection to it, a task that will be quite the challenge. You will have to do better than that for even these men cannot save your believe when it comes your understanding of the Bible, which is evident in your response to Anna, to which you were in the wrong.

We are going by what the Bible says and a total respect to the language, that is why what was said before is true, mainly in regards to John 14 and 16 as to where your Greek was called into question and the very fact that even your own source proved you wrong. Jesus is not God for many different reasons, but he is a god/a godlike ones according to the Law of the Jews, even Jesus brought that up in John chapter 10, and later on, Apostle Paul also brought it up, both quoting not just the law, but what God had said about his sons in Heaven and on Earth, for these god/godlike ones are not only of Spirit Beings, but of us humans as well, hence the Judges of Israel, etc. Jesus was in the right to speak of the law against Jews that were blinded by Satan. Death is ceasing to exist, if you want annihilation, if it is ever so obvious, those of mankind only die once and cease, to dust they came to dust they return, conscious of nothingness, to some a void of darkness, a cease of activity, etc. One is destroyed for good upon the Second Death, in a sense, like permanently deleting a file from your computer, therefore, gone for good as if it never existed. And God terminates the wicked, he does not watch them suffering in agony day in and day out, if that was the case, you paint God as something entirely different and ignore of how he FELT as to what the people were doing to their sons and daughters, God stated stuff like that would never cross his mind. On to the next point, God cannot die he is the literal life-giving force the same one who gave life to Jesus after he was crucified. God is a God to you, me and all of those in life, as well as those who had perished and chained up in the pangs of death, Death itself is the last enemy of which God will deal with once his purpose and will has been accomplished. Moreover, God is not like us men, according to Job, and in various passages in the Hebrew Old Testament, God is not a man nor is he a son of man, God's primary nature is incorruptibility, in plain English incorruptibility means Immortality, one who is unable to succumb to and or taste death at all In the Dictionary incorruptibility means not subject to death and or decay, for one is everlasting. Immortality means living forever, eternal life, therefore, God cannot taste death regardless of what you say and or think, however Jesus can because Jesus came to represent his Father as a man, flesh, roam among the people and the like, preached the good news gospel until he was killed, and him being a man, Jesus was corruptible/moral, both words meaning the state of being subject to death can be corrupted, in this case, to dying. And one of the most evident things is this man, Jesus, cried out to God, and later on, we see in Acts, and or anything that Paul had written, that God raised Jesus out of the pangs of death, and eventually, Jesus ascended to his Father after giving instruction to his disciples and the reward that is to come from the Father, this reward, The Holy Spirit, last I recall, I told you to read Acts 1 and 2 and you ignored those chapters. Death is ceasing to exist, to perish be conscious of nothing. Some fear it greatly, some do not shed fear of it but deep down inside they do, others do not care if they die but they worry about friends and family around them, some choose death as a noble sacrifice and or for a radicalized false reason, others accept it knowing they protect something or someone and or maintain a faith in something knowing that even if they die, God knows of their actions. Death becomes, in a sense, like annihilation when you are dead for good, ceasing totally with no chance of eternal life, therefore, in a sense, you are deleted from this world like a computer file, once it is gone, it is gone for good. God gives life, eternal life, to those worthy of it, to those righteous, to those meek, to those that truly attempt to seek him, but keep running into obstacles, etc. To say it is a separation it is as though you believe in the Afterlife, for it is common for Trinitarians to believe this, but what they forget is the very fact that Jesus is the first of the fruits and was the only one to had risen to Heaven and eventually those chosen will follow and only them. You do realize that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable - right? In fact, verses 1-10 in this chapter is also a parable, The Parable of the Dishonest Manager, the other being verses 19-31, The Rich Man and Lazarus. Other than that, Sheol, also known as Hades, is known as the grave to some, to others they simply see it as buried in Sheol or taken [down] to Sheol, but in most translations they refer to both Sheol and Hades as Hell, to add further confusion, Gehenna, in some translations is also refereed to as Hell, hence why people confused the two, for you cannot throw the lake of fire into the lake of fire. In these parables, Jesus was teaching a very important lesson and about the things to come by means of these parables. As for Jesus, if we are referring to 1 Peter 3:19, it points to both 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6. It also should be evident of what those Spirits are, and they are not deceased humans as you believe, if anyone is honest, they would understand that these so called Spirits are the wicked ones, of whom are reserved for judgement, the demons, those who have rebelled against God. Moreover, Jesus did Jesus preach to these spirits in prison, for Peter wrote that this occurred after Jesus only after Jesus was made alive in the Spirit, we see this clearly in 1 Peter 3:18, 19, adding up to verse 22 for this point: (18) For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, (19) in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, (20) because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. (21) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (22) who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him. When Peter mentioned that Jesus' proclamation and or that he preached, it is obvious that Peter was using past tense, which suggests that such an event in regards to preaching took place before Peter wrote his very first Epistle (letter). Sometime after Jesus' resurrection, Jesus made a proclamation to the wicked spirits, the demons that rebelled, regarding the fully justified punishment they are due to receive on the day of God's judgement. This wasn't a preaching herald good hope, but something of which they will get what is coming to them when God enacts judgement on such Spirits, therefore, it was a preaching and or proclamation of judgment, this is very similar to the actions of Jonah, of whom God had sent to Nineveh, see Jonah 1:1, 2. it is done in similar fashion in regards to the Jesus to the demons. Jonah Flees the Presence of the Lord (1) Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, (2) “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and call out against it, for their evil has come up before me.” Furthermore, Jesus had demonstrated his faith and loyalty to the day of his death, well into the day of his resurrection, for he had proved that Satan the Devil indeed had no hold on him, thus being victorious over the Great Serpent, in addition, Jesus had the basis for making such a a great proclamation, again, this can be seen in the chapters mention before, John 14 and 16, more specific 30 in 14 and 8-11 in 16. Soon, Jesus will bind up and then cast Satan the Devil into the the abyss along with the fallen ones that follow him, see Luke 8:30, 31 and Revelations 20:1-3. Until that time comes, these Spirits, the fallen ones who had rebelled, called Demons who are in rebellion against God, are in a condition vast spiritual darkness, and what is to come for them in regards to their final destruction is very, very certain and the day is slowly coming to when judgement will be executed. Jesus did say that to the thief, but those in death do not go to some afterlife, otherwise that would defeat the very purpose of what Jesus says about himself and or the very fact he is the firstborn out of death, let alone being the first of the fruits, I mean, the cross-references to Luke 23:43 actually tells you that. Taking the words of Isaiah, like him, those in death with rise and sing praise to God and his chosen one. As for Ephesians 4:8-9 these captives are the ones of whom cares for the Church, that is the Christ, the chapter even tells you a couple of verses onward, they were not literally taken up on the day Jesus ascended, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of Jesus' own words about him being the only one to ascended (John 3:13) prior to those chosen, which began in Pentecost. No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. At Pentecost 33 C.E., the ascended Jesus, as God’s chosen one, the man who was a representative of God, began breaking down the house of Satan by carrying out those among the captive — the men who had long been in slavery the likes of sin and death and under Satan’s power and control. These captives became Christ’s slaves/servants without hesitation, doing the will of God with your whole soul. Jesus saved them from Satan’s control and, on Gods behalf, gave them to the Church as gifts in men and clearly this did not sit well with the Devil due to his control that has been tampered with and or broken, for no one can hold these captives and we have the Lord from God who saved such ones. This is why we see this very fact seen in Ephesians 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, This is also quoted in the Hebrew Old Testament, Psalms 68:18 You ascended on high, leading a host of captives in your train and receiving gifts among men, even among the rebellious, that the Lord God may dwell there. h Of course, God is immortal, as well as incorruptible, he cannot die, he is the life-giver, the God of both the living and the dead, and God himself can give life and does so by means of his Son, Jesus, in the future, he will grant life in a grander scale to those he remembers, to those who are in the book of life. You fail to understand the passage from John 6:50. You really have to understand, and but into context what John 6:48-51 is showing, in not doing so, you make a response not even the most well educated Trinitarian would make, therefore, shows you are seeing this verse with a man's understanding. When Jesus spoke about living forever and not dying, he was not referring that those who were listening to what he had to say would never experience the first death being the human death of which we experience from the age of Adam and Eve's disobedience to now. The point Jesus was making was that having faith in him could lead to living forever, eternal life. This is why in this instance, Jesus called himself the bread of life. He continues to say something along the lines of that this bread of which he speaks, is the bread that has come down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die, he continues to make it known that He, Jesus, is the living bread that came down from heaven, if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever - eternal life. Any man would think that this concludes that Jesus was saying that they could avoid the experience of death, which is understandable, but again, one has to read and apply context to see what the passages really is saying, examining the evidence, if you will. The context itself pretty much is what I had already said. Jesus had just said this is the will of him that sent me, we know God sent Jesus, furthermore, that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given me but that I should resurrect it at the last day, etc. Those, every man that beholds the God's Son and exercises faith in him should have eternal life, and He will resurrect him at the last day. No man can come to Him unless the Father, who sent him, draws him; and He will resurrect him in the last day, see John 6:39-44. Jesus said later on that he that feeds on his flesh and drinks his blood has eternal life, and he shall resurrect him at the last day, see John 6:54. Hence, Jesus’ promise of living forever can be understood, should you accept it, Jesus would not be saying to the listeners that they would never experience death, that would be silly because even today man can and will eventually die, they fear death, but rather, Jesus was conveying the message to show us that there is indeed a way we have this bread, this wine, in turn, gain eternal life. As for God, he can't die, you make want to check out 1 Timothy 1:17 (also Romans 1:23) also, as with all cross-references that speak of God's nature of incorruptibility/immortality. To say and or believe God can die, then you really do not believe THWH is God thus giving people the reason to think of the All-Powerful having flaws and or weak, like kryptonite to superman, you throw the green rock at him and he is not so powerful after that not to mention falling out of the sky like rain drop, but this is God we are talking about, the El Shaddai, he is All-Powerful and Great, nothing can weaken him nor can he weaken himself, for as Jesus puts it, God is good, and that God is greater than him, the very reason why you have many, even Satan grinding their teeth right now because they know what God is capable of doing, especially to them, erasing them from reality, if you will.

(bear in mind, for some reason my response tends to be all bold randomly half way through) Indeed, the scriptures does inform us of many prophets of whom God had communicated with in many ways and occasions (Hebrews 1:1), however in the Torah (Hebrew Old Testament), God speaks of the one who is coming, this specific Prophet who has not been known to the people yet, the very one who He, God, will put his words in this Prophet’s mouth. This same prophet is sent by God, and speaks of what is to come regarding the final day, for God has spoken to us in a Son (Hebrews 1:2) Now in the Torah we will go to Deuteronomy, more specifically, Deuteronomy 18:15-19, with the focus being more on verse 18. A New Prophet like Moses (15) “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— (16) just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ (17) And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. (18) I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. (19) And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. Cross-references: Exodus 34:28, Numbers 12:3, Matthew 4:1, 2, 11:29, John 5:46 Now, there is no question, that Moses was indeed the meekest of men on the face of the earth during his time, but there would be one who is like him, a new prophet who is said to be like Moses himself, the very prophet who will also act as an in-between for God and men, for these men will speak to those of mankind. The Word that God had put in this prophet’s mouth is in regards of the promise of what the Kingdom will bring that of Salvation and revealing God’s Purpose and Will and what that implies. This prophet is indeed the one sent by God, the flesh/man, born of a woman into the Law, named Jesus, for we know of this when Mary had been visited by Gabriel, an Angel of God, Joseph, Son of David, was also informed of this news via dream for he was suspect about Mary’s pregnancy as well as what he knows about what the Law of the Land is all about (Matthew 1:20-23, 25, Luke 1:31-33, 35, 2:21). Moreover, Christ Jesus, was indeed the one Prophet that even Moses had spoken of. We also have to take into account of what Jesus says on John 5:45-47, which can be pointed back to Deuteronomy in the Torah: Witnesses to Jesus (45) Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. (46) For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. (47) But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” So it is no surprise that we see the example in John chapter 4, for we know that the Samaritans, who follow the Torah with hardcore intent, awaited the Prophet, for we know this by the conversation Jesus had with the Samaritan woman, and eventually the reaction of the Samaritan people themselves. John 6:14 - When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, “This is indeed the Prophet who is to come into the world!” What you fail to see is that God the Father refer to all his children as gods, godlike ones, those in Heaven as well as those on Earth – gods/godlike ones (elohims and or deities ), in addition to what the passages says about sons of The Most High. We know this for what we see in Psalms 82:1-6 Rescue the Weak and Needy A Psalm of Asaph. (1) God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: (2) “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah (3) Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. (4) Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” (5) They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. (6) I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; Here we find out that: [A] These godlike ones are in the midst of God the Father and God himself refers to such ones as gods/godlike ones. Verse 1 literally reads out God (El) takes His stands in the assembly of the gods (Elohim); He judges among the gods (Elohim). Since all bene elohims are of Elohim, El Shaddai, and come into existence because of elohim, these sons of God are elohims, deities, gods, etc (whatever floats your boat) Sons of God, the gods/godlike ones is a reference to us, those of us of mankind, and judges, and to focused on the scriptures itself, it is also a reference to human judges of Israel. Therefore, even the Archangel, being of God, is indeed a god, godlike one, and while on earth, this applies also, for it is read that the Christ himself even quoted what was written about the Law John 10:34, 35 – (34) Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? (35) If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— The Law of that Jesus spoke of, the one that is written is of the Hebrew Old Testament, the verse described above, Psalms 82:6, in addition, Jesus is known to speak of the entire Hebrew Scriptures, not just The Law of Moses alone, the same can be said of John 12:34 and 15:25 in regards to Jesus speaking of what is written. We also see what Apostle Paul had said in 1 Corinthians 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— At Exodus 21:6; 22:8-9, the judges were called gods (elohim). However, some translations obscure this fact by translating elohim as judges while others have translated the word as God which violates the context of the passage itself. The main purpose here in this passage is that these judges represented God. So if an Israelite came before this human judge, Elohim, they were then appearing before God Himself not because these judges were God Himself but because these human authorities were God's representatives and or a Spokesman and as His representatives they were exercising His authority in His name. As such, these human judges were Elohim, that is, gods. We can also see Exodus 4:16, Moses was told that he was to serve as God to both Aaroan and to Pharaoh. So it is no surprise that even the Jews know of such a Law that exists even to this day. Now as for Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. small quote: Hebrews often name their babies in praise to some attribute of God at work in their life. We see in the scriptures, as well as evidence via the practices and customs of the Jews, that such names are given to people, as well as places, and these names don't mean that these people are places are therefore God. It also show us that the one who is the Christ, The Messiah, would bear this name because he represents the Eternal Father and is the Mighty God's wonderful counsel since it was God who set things in motion, i.e. The one to raised up the Messiah to carry out His purpose and will. In short, YHWH of Hosts makes it all happen. Very soon I will make a Bible Discussion on this verse when I get through some verses in John, Acts and Corinthians. As for Princes (Nobles, Kings, Lords, Leaders) If you read onward in the book of Daniel, Daniel was being specific of who the Great Prince actually is, we cannot choose one point and forget the other when trying to piece together context of a passage and or belief. You do not get the point, God’s Spoken Word in the very beginning, Moses did not exist, nor did any spark of life on the nothingness of the earth’s earliest state for the earth was formless and void – literally. Darkness consumed the formless earth as well as its deep watery seas. After reading the verse 2 verses of Genesis, look at what the next verse, 3, and onward, “And God said” etc. etc. etc. and the cause of what he had said and the result, for instance, the Bible in the beginning said the earth was literally shrouded in Darkness, God simply spoke about light and there you have it or perhaps the living creatures that roam the earth, dwell in the depths of the sea and fly in the heavens. It is very obvious and known by many that the Word by which God created all things in Genesis was His spoken Word. The Scriptures tell us that the Genesis creation was accomplished by means of God's SPOKEN Word, so I do not see how you missed that in John’s Introduction of the gospel. As for the man named Jesus, in his pre-existence, he was with his Father during the Genesis Act of Creation, for God had made things through him, which is very clear in the Bible, in chapter 1 of Genesis, verse 26, God was clearly with His Son when they made man, molded in both likeness and image, the very reasons why the cross-references are clear (Prov 8:30, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16). The same sense as a Father works through His Son to teach him how to craft and or teach, make him a better man, it is the same sense with God and his only-begotten Son, the very reason the Bible says God takes delight in His Son and that Jesus himself was with his Father, marveling at his works and what God the Father had done. That being said, God's Spoken Word is in full display in regards to creation as seen in the very first chapter of the Bible (The Genesis Act of Creation). You do realize I am not talking about Bible translation, the category of Bible readers I am referring to is individuals who read but do not accept fully of what the Bible says and or lacks to apply context. Now, if we are going to talk about Biblical errors vs. the NWT, I guess we can start with the hypocrisy shown by mainstream Christendom who attack Jehovah’s Witness, in addition to literally 99% of the attack being directed to Non-Trinitarians as well as Muslims to read the Bible, sure we can get into that for its been a decade since I have researched and spoke of Bible translations, inspired and uninspired verses, forgeries, etc. as well as why real Christians and even Muslims accept what the Oldest source says, which does not include Acts 8:37 and a dozen of other verses compared to the mainstream who accepts verses like Acts 8:37 and the other ones, the same people who attack others for removed Bible verses that have already been exposed to be 100% uninspired. For this is a quote regarding the attack on JWs regarding Acts 7:59 and John 3:16: It is disturbing that many Trinitarians have the nerve to whine and complain, and rant and rave, about the Jehovah's Witnesses doing this type of thing in their New World Translation and then turn right around and hypocritically approve of the very same type of thing in the KJV translation. If you have a KJV translation, the word "God" should be in italics (or brackets) and the KJV translators do inform their readers that words in italics (or brackets) were not present in the original Greek manuscripts. However, the Jehovah's Witnesses make their readers equally aware but for some reason Trinitarian apologists don't seem to think the Witnesses have been granted the same approval for such insertions as the KJV Trinitarians have been granted. It is blatantly misleading to add this word here, especially in view of the fact that many readers may overlook the italics convention, or do not even know about it, or blindly trust the translators to be giving them good information. The fact that this word is there in print, without any merit whatsoever, confuses and misleads the reader. It is an appalling example of adding to the Bible where it is obviously unwarranted and a device implemented only to promote a Trinitarian agenda. One truly wonders how anyone who approves of such things can suppose they are doing God a favor by distorting the very words he inspired and thereby misrepresent Him and so such things in His name. End quote (mind you, this quote came from a man who is very neutral with JWs, moreover, he follows no denomination, just adheres to the Bible, but has common ground with those who actually has and or strives to be close to what is true) But if you want to post a New World Translation errors that you claim, so be it, all I can say any claim you make is solely from a Trinitarian point of view and has been refuted by many, many, people over the years who know of the oldest source. You'll have to make another thread for that though. Yes, if we are talking about the one who professes God’s Word, the flesh that is The Word, of course he had pre-existed, came to earth welcomed by some, hated by others and eventually killed, God took him out of the pangs of death on the 3rd day, exalted him as soon as he ascended then yes. Indeed, Jesus was up there, but he could not do as much in the presence of his Father, like rebuking Satan when it came to Moses corpse, to what Satan had in store, that I do not want to know, but God’s Son did not want to overstep authority of which he did not have. Only later on, after being risen, God’s Son, now sitting at His right hand, the one given authority and power after being raised out of death, etc. God did make Jesus Lord, the Bible says so Acts 2:36, God was the one who also made Jesus the Christ, the same Christ that many awaited for, in ancient times and now present day. Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Such has taken place in the period of Jesus’ death via crucifixion and onward to His resurrection, and what took place when Jesus ascended to heaven after his final meet up with his followers? God exalted him, placed Jesus at his right hand for Jesus, being His only-begotten, became man and represented the Father, spoke of him and what God’s Kingdom will bring for mankind in the future as seen in his ministry from Matthew-John, died for our sins and enabling the New Covenant for he had tasted death for us, and was actually dead until God himself brought the Christ back to life, glorified, appearing like a Spirit, mainly to his followers who ran into him later on, as well as Thomas who didn’t believe Jesus had risen, etc. Yes, Jesus is indeed above the angels, but you forget what the term Archangel means. Also we should not also forget that there is but one who is the Leader of God’s Army, the same Army that battled with Satan and his demons. For example, God’s chosen one is not just a King, but a mighty warrior, a leader, noblemen who takes charge. The Bible says that Michael and his angels battled with the dragon as seen in Revelation 12:7 as well as describing the same battle, but saying Jesus, seen in Revelation 19:14-16. Would be kind of silly to say and or think Satan had been battled twice, kicked out of Heaven twice when the Bible makes it clear the battle was only one time and the leader of the demons and the leader of God’s Army were the ones in conflict. There is one army leader that God position to lead the angels into combat, eventually H’Armageddon, the same one who cast out Satan from Heaven in a confrontation we only read about, but in reality must have been long and quite brutal. No, Jesus was no longer human when he ascended into Heaven, and last I check flesh cannot enter the Spirit Realm that is Heaven that is absurd; you do not hear much about Michael until the action is revealed in Revelations. As for the next response, that is fairly easy, because the one who has been anointed by God, the one who is the firstborn out of the dead and the first of the fruits – is the Messianic King, God’s chosen one. Yes, it says Jesus, but you forget that God sent Gabriel to inform Mary to name the child Jesus, clearly in his pre-existence his name was not Jesus at all until he was in the womb of Mary. That passage also didn’t say Immanuel, and yet we can freely speak of this name in the same sense that we speak of Jesus, but not of Jesus’ pre-existing name, Michael. Technically it is seen this way, the Son of God, the only-begotten, was with His Father and clearly didn’t want to overstep his authority in the presence of his Father mainly with the whole Moses’ corpse situation. When sent to earth he was given the name Jesus (Yehoshua/Yeshua) as well as Immanuel (Emmanuel), as well as being called the Horn of Salvation. Jesus eventually became the Christ/Messiah, who was the Prophet of whom was spoken of the Old Testament, similarly, Jesus himself also made this known when he read the Scroll of Isaiah. Eventually he was accused and had been killed via crucifixion, risen on the 3rd day by God the Father, eventually ascending into heaven assuming his role by his Father, with his position and has been made Lord, exalted, given the name above every other name, as well as authority and power. With that, God will judge through his Son and resurrect people by a great multitude, as for the wicked, God’s chosen one will come to exact judgment with God’s Army, and he will be carrying a Sword, coming in the name of his Father. The list goes on but I this is just brief. The only reason people cannot see Jesus is Michael is for one thing, Angel. But the hypocrisy is they say Jesus is a messenger who represents God (Shaliah Principle/Angelic Agency) aka Malak. In addition, they see clearly in scripture even Paul refers to Jesus as an Angel. But many hold this view of Michael/Jesus, however, some seem to be closer to what the connection is vs those who do not, the most absurd of some belief is saying Michael is God, which is false. If you think of it as such, what you say about him being born as a King, that is understandable, for it further proves the point of Jesus’ position when he pre-existed, as a human, when risen, returned to haven and onward.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Apparently Trinitarians within mainstream Christendom apply the slogan of Burger King when it comes to their confusing Christology, "Have it Your Way" and it would seem they are having it their way when it comes to scripture. The thing is here, what the Bible says, what the early Church had taught and practice, which includes the abilities of which Jesus entrusted the Church, being used by Church leaders who adhere to it, the application of scripture in regards to lifestyle, morals, cleanliness, etc. - We should take such in seriousness for such is scriptural. We should not be adding on something outlandish, but rather take in what is already there, even though we are learning over time, an example would be one reading the Bible to eventually find out God has a Son who is only-begotten when before the reader didn't know about the only-begotten Son of God. But we have the silliness of some today that say God is Jesus or that God approves of guns, these false practices and heresies the mainstream adheres to, as well as a list of other things, in this regard, The Holy Spirit, hence the topic.

The problem here is Trinitarians, well at this point, the James White Tribe, will say God only knows and they accept that God is the Father, which is understandable, but at the same time, they will say Jesus knows and they will contradict their own belief regarding Jesus being God, as well as the Holy Spirit, of which they make-believe into the text to be regarded as a person. Furthermore, it kills the notion of them saying Jesus is all knowing, for if Jesus was indeed all knowing, the day and hour would be a piece of cake, being able to make mention of it without hesitation. Acts 1:7 even says it does not belong to know what the Father knows about what He has already scheduled. This is why when they attempt to teach the idea of a Triune God, small things like this they twist in order to keep their sinking boat of a belief afloat and it is a shame too, for such ones do not understand what their bible says.

@Jesus.defender You do realize using the “@” function allows you to mention the person right, not solely quotations alone? I was not speaking with you; I was informing the other commenter about you. All in all, I really do not care if you are ignoring me or not, for the lack of such care is not in me, I only care about truth and untruths and will response to such directly should need be – direct or indirectly for falsehood in terms of scripture, in regards to the Church, in regards to Christology, as well as Christology of others who actually make the attempt to adhere to what the early Christian, the early Church has done, a response can and always will be made, as if that was not clear to begin with. That being said, it didn't stop you from making the same action in terms of response, so it would be wise to not pose yourself as an even bigger hypocrite who is above the rest and last I checked, you dove into the deep end of the pool because it wasn’t anyone else but a JW responding to Trinitarian heresy, should anyone else have said such you would not have made such responses afterwards, which was evident elsewhere. I only mentioned you, if you noticed, not much of a direct response because with how you operate, I know you will not really be able to answer @ShariKind, however, I too await to see what you will say granted by your actions, Deserter. When it comes to anything regarding the Bible, ones such as yourself have no strength against anyone who is literal of non-denominational following, but such ones such as yourself will go out of their way to go after JWs (mind you guys only for the inexperienced JWs for if met with an educated and well aware JW be it current or former, you shake and quake). Also the fact that you are a follower of James White, The Trinitarian Theologian who has written well over 20 books, been in 160 or so moderated debate, kills your credibility for James White has been exposed as a false teacher by most, even by those in Islam, just as David Wood, just as Jay Smith, etc. Furthermore, even the non-religious are not fans either, and actually pointed out Trinitarians as well as KJV-Onlyist follow this man like moths to a fire. James White had been question and defeated by Hamza Myatt James White had debated and had been defeated by a Jehovah’s Witness James White had been debated and defeated both times by Adnan Rashid the first in regards to Bible corruption The Second run in with Mr. Rashid was regarding Salvation/Jesus' Crucifixion James White had debated and had been defeated by a Fellowship Unitarian, Anthony Buzzard Moreover, Anthony Buzzard spoke of how the Trinitarians do not agree with the Shema, even informing James White has brushed over what the Shema actually is James White's debate with Buzzard had been talked about even by those neutral with JWs This same person also broke down 3 parts to specific points made by the two men: First | Second | Third James White had been exposed in regards to the his acceptance of uninspired biblical text that was NOT part of the Oldest Source Simon Brown, who follows no denomination also spoke about the White v. Stafford debate The list goes on... Also if you are aware like us at CSE, you would also know about Mr. White’s bad behavior online, known as a bully, sends his people after others, provokes people and the most silly thing he does should one becomes provoked and says something ignorant or stupid, he captures such and puts it on his social media and this behavior of his has been happening for YEARS. That being said, I will say it again, you can babying around JWs all you want, but it is FACT that Trinitarians or in this case, a disgruntled JW such as yourself, is and will always act foolish, and the fact you support James White, well, that is further beyond of what can be seen of you. It is even more horrendous when met with the likes of an Agnostic. So it is clear, the only God is the Father (to which you agree on this and it would be stupid to go back on what you have said for all that you said in this regard has been quoted). Jesus is NOT God for Jesus is a man who professed the Law, he is the In-between for God and men to mankind, as if the story of Moses made that any clear. If you still want to play the God Card, why not call Moses God, that is, if you accept what the Trinitarians make of Exodus 7:1? The Holy Spirit is not God and or a Person either, for the Bible never makes any mention of the Holy Spirit being a person. This is why we have problems with Trinitarians who attempt to use John 14 and 16 when the Greek Language Form is evident, for we know why Holy Spirit is referred to as a HE/Him the same way we understand why Jerusalem is referred to as a SHE/HER. They will attempt to use Paul when Paul, John and several others own testimony kills the Personhood belief. Moreover, a sane man will not accept your belief that The Holy Spirit caused Mary conceive Jesus for Mary herself stated she had no relations with a man, no one is going to take it from you that a Person came to visit 3,000 people on that faithful day at Pentecost, no one is going to take it from you that the Holy Spirit is aware of the day and hour of judgment, let alone this so called Personhood that has no seat around God, when the Bible makes it clear God in his dwelling place has His Throne and the only one next to him is Jesus, at God’s right hand.

@Jack Ryan Anything having to do with stimulating the genital sex organ is 100% masturbation (self-gratification). According to the community that deals with helping those who find themselves in a battle with pornography and masturbation: Masturbation is stimulating ourselves for sexual pleasure. The Reboot member who had said this is 100% correct to what he had said. another thing to note is one should not be wasting away something of which they can literally create life with to a pixel-screen. As for the whole Pillow ordeal, it is one of the things talked about by this community also known as the Reboot from Masturbation/Pornography Movement. As stated before, such things is not a joke, regardless of who practices such or watches vile things, it leaves such ones broken and addicted for the dopamine levels get to a point that the habit becomes that of a drug, and often find themselves even more broken when such a habits destroys their life and or relationships, thus kicking in the low-esteem, depression and a list of other things. I would go more in depth in this regard, since such a topic I am not shy about speaking about because I have spoke to people who are dealing with such, even one family member of mine who won his battle, but such things that can be said in the darkest places cannot be said here for information can be very explicit at times, mainly when it is critical to combating sch a problem. That being said, the pillow action is also in connection with those suffering from wet dreams and the like. Before you want to follow the band wagon and make allude to such jokes, I rather you pay a visit to the community that knows a whole lot about such things, you can look up the pillow stuff there also. The Community's Reddit page Their Website There is also Ted Talks about such things, you can review the information, however, I warn you now, what will be said is not PG Disney friendly even though what is being said is to help combat the addiction to masturbation and pornography, you have been warned. Gary Wilson Speech Other then that, the practice of such is very common and the industry who produces the material knows of whom they are targeting, they tend to target males more as much than they do females because males can easily subdued by an image/video of a woman who partake in such a vile industry, it is no question that all people, even among Jehovah's Witnesses, are not immune to such. Proverbs 5:8 and 7:8 are really good verses in such matters, we can even take example from Joseph (Not the Husband of Mary, the OTHER one). Should one fall, it should not be the end of the world for them, for if something causes you to fall, simply stand back up, the community I linked are not that religious, some are, not all of them, but some have relapsed in their fight, but with determination and motivation, they get back up, they fall and rise up again until eventually they break free from the chains of that sin. All and all, the picture is very lame, granted to what can be seen of the community in question who, as I said, deals with this stuff, look up pillows regarding this community, that alone should tell you more than you need to know. For such ones provide a bit more help should one chooses to seek it, in addition to testimony and stories of others of others, regardless of their sex and age, they speak up. Stuff like this some of is around the world DO NOT joke about and we have a good reason as to why this is, but people are ignorant to the demons people are fighting within themselves, especially in a world who thinks such is okay or teaching sodomy to children as if it is normal - very sickening. The whole dopamine stuff we can get into another time, for that alone seems basic, but truly it is vast regarding this category.

@ShariKind Alright, but always expect surprises that do not connect with what is being asked.

Indeed it is, however when I spoke of John 1:1, there was a specific passage in the Torah I was referring to of what God had made known about the one who is to come, we know this clearly as what we see in John chapter 4 when Jesus met the Samaritan woman, for he revealed himself to be that Prophet, the Messiah, the very man who speaks the Word of God. And I do not think anyone is reading it wrong, however there are those thinking this is the silver bullet to making Jesus out to be God himself, such ones show a total disregard to not just the cross-references, but of what God himself said in the Old Testament. That is also true for Any man who had seen Jesus had seen the Father in terms of the things Jesus did. God is Life and Jesus fully expressed that Life in the words he spoke and the works that he had done. God is Truth and Jesus fully expressed that Truth by everything he had said and and in regards to his actions, etc. Jesus is indeed Divine, but he problem is such ones will attack others for not seeing Jesus as God and automatically pull the "You Deny Jesus being God/Trinity, you deny the Christ" card, a hat-trick that gets old fast. When I get back to my main computer with all my notes and research, I will probably post another gospel of John thread in Bible Discussion about John 1:1, for there is a lot I can say about this verse, but the focus on my last response was based on w cross-reference to John 1:1 regarding what God the Father had said as seen in the Old Testament.

There is no double standard, mainly if one is aware of what is present outside of the 1245 and of course, it is no problem to any man, regardless of faith background to use God's personal name in scripture and or professing it, mainly if you take into account how sacred the Jews held the name of Hashem (God), for there is a reason as to WHY they made YHWH Adonai. As for manuscripts, it is no surprise you are not aware of what has been in connection with the Septuagint, something of which that has been pulled up with vast information, evidence and other form of connection, something of which will take up 2-3 pages should I post said information - in a sense, from 5 years of research and study, I can literally drop a book on you to that response of yours, and the hypocrisy here is you only make mention of the Jehovah's Witnesses in this regard, yet you do not attack your own for restoring said name because JWs and others have done it, in fact, Trinitarians have stronghold on the internet in this regard, mainly after being called out in the past for the removal of the name for more than 2,519+ times in the OT in the KJV/NKJV (excluding the recent KJV with the restored name). It's called hermeneutics, a method or theory of interpretation, furthermore, the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, when it comes to the Bible and or literary texts, it has nothing to do with argument, rather, it has more to do with accepting biblical context of said passages, seeing the connection and coming to the most accurate conclusion possible, example, you brought up 1 Peter 1:1-2 to support your belief, yet with little bit of hermeneutics, anyone can see the context of what Peter was conveying and bring up verse 3, which in turn, destroys the very claim you have made mention of such verse. hermeneutics is the bane of existence to those who practice a false doctrine that is not of the early Church, this goes for Trinitarians, Modalist, Gnostics, Calvanist, and or any individual and or group that follows something that the Bible does not teach, this goes for any and every claim you make about the Holy Spirit as well as dozens upon dozens of verses of which you make a reference to, it has already been dealt with, the very reason why I made mention to a number of passages here and elsewhere, in addition to twisting what those before us have written. And no, it is not the only way of biblical interpretation. You are a Trinitarian, the only thing you have in common with Non-Trinitarian is the forms of biblical study and theology, the fact you made no mention to the others because hermeneutics regarding passages of the Bible, only shows that you also lack in this domain, the irony is, I made mention to the other methods as well, I put hermeneutics first in respects of the passages and the context such passages profess, but to the very core of such study, never ever one such as myself apply man-made understanding of a passage, for we are to heed the understanding of the passages in full context as the Bible reveals to us, example, if the Bible says God is not like us men, we should hold to what the Bible says, not turn around and say God suddenly changed his mind and became a man, God Almighty who is incorruptible being able to taste death when the Bible says he cannot, things of that nature, the very reason why people are critical of truth, context, passages, cross-references and a strong conclusion that is of the Bible and not of mere man understanding. That being said, it does not really take hermeneutics to realize Greek Language Forms, I mean, that should be obvious, mainly when we take into account the speaker and what the speaker is talking about, etc.

@ShariKind He will not answer. Trinitarians like @Jesus.defender are known to tap-dance around such things, like football players with butter fingers cannot catch a ball at all. They say things they cannot prove and will reduce to a child-like state and resort to insult, false accusations and silliness, something of which is being in full display here - When proven wrong he will say utter nonsense, when proven wrong by a JW, he resorts to bashing JWs.

But days ago you disrespected what Jesus said what was written, so who is really for Jesus and who is not? And JWs are not a cult, they are Restorationist, they differ from mainstream Christianity because they apply the practices and abilities of the 1st century church, as well as take the Bible with seriousness. A real cult would be that of the Crusaders, or perhaps the Ku Klux Klan (The KKK) who justify he killing of Christians clearly against the Trinity and those of a racial background or those who defense ones with racial backgrounds. Modern cults would be the Christian Militants or Radicalized Westboro Baptist Church for violence is the motive for them and hate, as well as Christian-Infighting, a practice of which you are displaying here, for Christian-Infighting is a massive problem with mainstreamers. So in short, you are false for: A-Religious Infighting (Christian) B-Bearing a false Witness, trying to say Jesus is God, as well as the Holy Spirit being God when everyone knows that the pre-nicene ones and those of the Apostolic Age were NOT Trinitarians. C- You deny what Jesus said what was written, even when I called you out for it several times elsewhere before JW Insider moved said response. The list goes on. Actually it does. That is if you take into account of root words and or words of origin regarding the Greek Language and that of the Strong's. Your next problem is Jesus being refereed to as The Promised Seed aka Abrahamic Seed, which puts further emphasis on this firstborn notion, moreover, the cross-references to Genesis 1:26. I suggest you read up more on Strong's because clearly you lack just like the other guy who believes the Holy Spirit is a person. Trinitarians or disgruntled JWs like yourself, lack Greek and or Hebrew knowledge, you simply read what the word means but never shed any like on Strong's connections, occurrences and root words/meaning. Surely you are grown, Deserter, you do not need someone to baby you by holding your hand in regards to such basic research. You really do not know Jesus, for if you have, you'd realize a Jewish custom and a law alone literally disproves Jesus being God 100%, something of which not just True Christians know, but even Jews and Muslims, to even Buddhist know this, for it is THAT well known. It is 100% fact that Trinitarians are ignorant to such, to which you have already displayed, hence the verses you have typed, location but not quoted, you not knowing what such even means.

Indeed, Jesus is the Word because he is the Prophet of whom God puts His Word in and such applies to the Christ because he is a Prophet. The Word is God because it is God's Spoken Word. Jesus is the Word because he speaks God's Spoken Word, professes the Father. The Word is God because the Word itself originated with God, not Jesus mainly if you understand John's Introductory and what is seen in Deuteronomy and Isaiah. As for gods/godlike ones, God the Father refers to His children as such, in heaven and on earth, Jesus is in that same category and even quoted the law in John chapter 10, Apostle Paul himself also made reference to the Most High calling his children gods/godlike ones, and in Jesus case, it is applied to the Jews. So the JWs position on The Word (the flesh named Jesus) is correct, Jesus is refereed to as a god, he is not God, for this god, also called the Word, speaks/professes The Word, that is of God as seen in the beginning. What some also fail to believe is that they ignore the fact of what the Light means and of whom it is referring to, and John the Baptist, for we know John himself was not even existing in the Genesis Act of Creation. Yes because prior to his resurrection, God has made Jesus Lord and exalted him above the angels, according to Apostle Paul, even with this higher authority and power, Jesus is still refereed to as the Word, just as he is still refereed to as the Christ/Messiah. The Bible only speaks of one Archangel, and that is Michael, even before that this one Archangel had existed for there are clues in the Old Testament.Plus it is clear that Jesus was not Jesus at all, for God sent an angel to have the child named Jesus, we knowing Jesus is a Prince even before he was on earth, it is safe to say he was indeed the one who was sent and before that he was just working by his Father's side, being the only one of whom God took high delight in and the like. As for the Word, it would depend on what you are referring to, Jesus or that of God's Spoken Word that is the Word, of which we see in the Genesis Act of Creation. Probably because they are making it know and professing Jesus' role on earth rather than his role in Heaven. Jesus is only known as the Word because he professes God's purpose and will - that is, if you paid attention to what God himself had said in the Old Testament and that of those who profess the coming of the Prophet sent by God, God's Son. That being said, Jesus/Michael is refereed to as The Word of God (The Word) in Revelations as well. I am pretty sure WT knows that Jesus/Michael, is the Word, this is but a snippet of what they have said: In his prehuman existence Jesus was called “the Word.” (Joh 1:1) He also had the personal name Michael. By retaining the name Jesus after his resurrection (Ac 9:5), “the Word” shows that he is identical with the Son of God on earth. His resuming his heavenly name Michael and his title (or name) “The Word of God” (Re 19:13) ties him in with his prehuman existence. The very name Michael, asking as it does, “Who Is Like God?” points to the fact that Jehovah God is without like, or equal, and that Michael his archangel is his great Champion or Vindicator. The Word, if you take into account of John's Introductory, as well as Mark's, being identical to that of Genesis 1:1. God's Word was in the beginning because he spoke everything into existence, in combination with his great limitless power. The Light John refers to was indeed God's Son for Jesus is indeed the Light of this World, in addition, he is refereed to as well as the morning star. Yes according to the Bible, only if you take everything into context, for anyone can read John 1:1 and ignore the verses after it, anyone can just read John 1:1 and not make an effort to see the cross references and passages that makes such a verse understandable, it comes to a point where even the non religious have to correct those of mainstream Christendom on this matter. In the end, people can say they read the Bible everyday but remain ignorant to context, such ones will also not make the effort to study and realize what a verse means, example would be the captured women, to which some today refer to as sex slaves or that of cannibalism, people will read into the passages and not take in context, thus, not knowing what such passages mean or as to what came about of such, for the answer, to be brief, is the sex slave one is due to vengeance and it is not what the modern mind of men think vs Bible times, for the women were not cursed compared to their original captors. The other was due to a great famine, the reason as to why cannibalism was even present, in the end, such ones had quite the outcome. Not taking things into context with research only makes one not aware of what a passage even means, even to the point of rejecting half and or all of the Old Testament or saying that Apostle Paul was not a follower of Jesus, but of Satan. Therefore, we have to really understand what John 1:1 means otherwise the one would fit the category of Bible readers who are not serious about context and research. Only those who take the Bible serious can tackle such passages. Well the Septuagint and Coptic Text gives you a very obvious clue to John's Introductory - check the cross-references and see what God said to His people regarding the one who is to come who will speak His Word. Last I check, Jesus had the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as soon as he got out of the water during Baptism, so of course he had the Holy Spirit as well as the works and hat he says not being of His own, but of the Father, for the Father abides in Jesus, and in True Christians. John also knew the law of the Jews, just as Jesus have, since Jesus was a born Jew, and just like Paul, in addition to others. So it is no surprise John knows who God is, John knowing who Jesus is, those who followed Jesus, moreover, John clear awareness of the practices of such ones like the Jews and Samaritans and others. The real question is, if you accept what John is truly trying to convey rather than accepting something without bearing any understanding of what is being said. This also goes for those who do not truly understand the Revelation of John also.

@Srecko Sostar They continued it because early Christians also maintain this view despite some of them breaking off into other odd teachings, an example would be molding the Trinity into the mix, referring to Jesus/Michael as God. But to be brief, people see Jesus as not only the Son of God, but as a Mighty Warrior as well, and it is understandable by many as to whom did God put to lead the legion of Angels that will fight against they wicked. @Malum Intellectus Yep. I'll be able to post more information when I get back to my main location, for I do have a lot of findings on such information.

@Gone Away I'll have to be brief because I have no access to my research information to post it here. The belief started centuries ago. Some will say around the 7th-9th century, others have information going centuries back, but such info is small. Most information we have today is in regards to the 16th-18th century, with such ones like John Calvin who also has this belief, as with others, which also reflects that of biblical passages that seem to equal Jesus to Michael in both title and or action, perhaps even more things. Moreover, there is a literal counterpart to JWs, known as SDAs, who also has this view, but maintain an Orthodoxy approach and they not only see Micheal as Jesus, but they see him as God,f or such ones are Trinitarians. When I do get back, I'll be happy to post here my findings from a few years back regarding this whole Jesus/Michael thing and the view of others on this matter.

@Malum Intellectus Yep, even today such things take place, we even have those who worship people as gods, and even the specifics to the human sex organs and or other parts of the body. There are those who also worship those of fame, those who have the most wealth and the like, even to the point of self inflicted injury. The world is indeed a madhouse, with small safe zones here and there containing only the sane and aware, separating such from the insane and crazed.

@Gone Away Trinitarians are oblivious to the Septuagint and the source of that even has God's name on it. @Cos problem is with the JWs, but ironically, he is not aware of even Trinitarians who made an attempt to use and or restore the name Yahweh/Jehovah into the scriptures themselves, despite trying to erroneously say and or compare Jesus to God the Father, some of them even calling Jesus Jehovah, when clearly both the Father and the Son are different from each other, despite both being Lords, one clearly has higher authority than the other. The hypocrisy is when Trinitarians also attack Muslims to say hat God's name is in the New Testament, which is the case in the majority of the EU, mainly the UK, but here we see a defective Trinitarian doing loop-de-loops on his own kind.

@Cos Buddy, I wish it was nonsense or mere opinion, but everything said and mention is with hermeneutics, a thing Trinitarians do not like at all, mainly when it reveals what certain verses mean in context, example, an exegesis on John 10:30, but with use of hermeneutics and context we can see John 10:16, or perhaps what Jesus said in response several verses from 30, and what he met that points directly to John 17 verses and even beyond the four gospel accounts. If we are speaking about attitudes, it is known by view towards you already, mainly with how you welcomed me here after being exposed as slandering against your own word, I rather not remind you or repost what was on full display, therefore, keep in mind as to what you said before I made many response towards you, that my friend, is being hypocritical. Like I said, no one is going to believe the young virgin Mary had relations with a Spirit being granted she herself said the following in Matthew 1:24, 25, Luke 1:34 (see Isaiah 7:14) when her and Joseph had not even had a child at the time. No one is going to believe that a Spirit appeared to more than 3,000 people (remember when I kept directing you to Acts 1 and 2?), when we clearly see that that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was taking place, no being in sight, granted key witnesses who were there who are also the same ones who bore witness about God, the one who sent Jesus. Like I said, it would be understandable if what you believe is indeed obvious in the Bible, yet this belief causes confusion and conflict in both the Old and New Testament, hence the absurdities. That being said, every verse that Trinitarians have used over the years have been exposed by means of sheer hermeneutics and utter context of said verses, even the false verses and the forged ones Trinitarians love to use, or that of the 1245, the JC and or TR, its been exposed already, if we are to take into account that God knows the day and hour, and then call Jesus God and then go about calling the so called Holy Spirit, a person, a God, then you have a problem of whose who who knows what and the like, and it does not stop there only. Let's not forget your clear confusion about Greek Language Forms, only to use your own information against yourself to further prove what I have been saying this whole time. As for God's name, it is obvious you are a 1245er who has no idea of the Septuagint.

@Jesus.defender Again, not only JWs see this in regards to what firstborn is and what it means. Jesus is also the first of the fruits as well as the firstborn out of the dead, the only one to pull Jesus out of the pangs of death was God, as explicitly stated in Acts, Galatians, Romans, etc, pretty much anything that Paul has utter and or written. You also have to realize the occurrences of Firstborn, but normal and unique.

Such ones also believe a child is a God if said child succumbs to major birth defects, as seen in India and the like. https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/only-in-india-are-kids-with-birth-defects-worshipped-as-gods-244764.html If some of you guys cannot stomach the images consider this bold text as a warning: Warning!!!

ARC talks again? Â A lot of ARC stuff has been talked about even address months ago.

@Jesus.defender You already posted this elsewhere. Other than that, Jesus being Michael did not start with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Sheesh.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only ones ho abstain from blood from either animal or man, such ones are of the New Covenant and the only blood that is of concern for such ones, is the one Jesus shed when he was crucified. Another problem you face is those bounded by culture of not accepting blood or giving blood, regardless. You do realize some, mainly those in Caribbean countries, abstain from blood and majority of them are not that religion, they do this due to avoidance of superstitious things, such as sorcery and the like, one country, namely Jamaica and Haiti, tend to avoid Black Magic which also involves blood rituals, it is called Vodou, Voodoo in English. The US/EU tend to force or trick a few of these people to accept blood, the irony is they never accept blood from such people. In some countries they do not even accept blood from those who practice homosexuality, namely Russia. So in short, abstain means abstain, but in the end, it is the choice of the individual, regardless if they are Jehovah's Witnesses or not. There has been a huge debate on this in Christendom and the majority will even say abstaining from blood also includes blood from man. So in short, it would be total hypocrisy to only say this of JWs and other Christians also avoid blood of any kind, the same could be said about nations who adhere to culture who abstain from blood. This was talked about at CSE a while back: https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/410/blood-transfusions-and-christianity Also it is already known on the JW stance on this issue. Also blood opens door to diseases and whatnot, mainly sexual transmitted diseases and the like via blood, something of which several if not over a dozen kids got infected with such as of last year and this. True Christians believe in what God will bring by means of His Son, what is Son had died for by shedding His blood. We should not forget such. As for me, I am bounded by such by means of cultural reasons, more than religious reasons, hence it is unlikely you will pull the racial and or discrimination card on those with such views, now can you?

@Jesus.defender Another problem you have is the very fact that the belief that Jesus is Micheal did not originate with the Jehovah's Witnesses. This belief, with evidence and information, dates back to the 8th and or 9th century. Another factor is that Paul refers to Jesus as an Angel, and we know that Angel also means Messenger (malak), Jesus himself is refereed to as a Messenger as well as a Prophet. The next issue is that both Jesus, and if you do not count them as the same, Michael, both led God's army into battle with Satan and his Demons, and it is known the chosen one of God cast Satan out of Heaven, the one deemed chef of God's army. There are many, many people who believe Jesus is Michael, and yet you only target JWs, which is total hypocrisy. I'd like to see you preach to people, deep in the Congo or in some parts of South Korea, who believe the mighty warrior of God the chef of His army, that is Jesus, also known as Michael as some. We must also remember that the name Jesus was given when Jesus was still in Mary's womb. The only problem with the Jesus/Michael belief is that some people believe in the Trinity, and consider Michael aka Jesus as a Triune God.

@Gone Away Usually when people want to take a shot at anyone, even at JWs, they will bring up God's name and the New Testament. Clearly such ones has never heard of anything outside of the 1245, it is the same situation dealing with those who want to react negatively to the name of God's Son. Other times such ones will say that Jesus/Yeshua is Jehovah/Yahweh, which is another annoying situation on its own.