Space Merchant

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well I think God made it clear how He dealt with the Nation of Israel when they turned their backs on Him. And i think God makes it clear through His word what he expects from His people. As for legal matters, I think the Romans scripture says it all. 

But then you have Paul and Peter in regards to Civil Disobedience (evident in scripture) should the laws of the land conflict with scripture and or serving God, in this case, of what is written by both of these people. Christians are obligated to respect authorities of such people, as Romans says, but in regards to Civil Disobedience, that too is written by the bible writers for a reason. Last I have checked, rarely did anyone change or ignored Romans 13, if anything, Civil Disobedience is broken down into several categories without going around as to what Romans says and or what Paul and Peter says, and what was on full display in the Hebrew Old Testament and or any of God's law and word found in scripture.

What we all can agree on is that God is seeing all that is unfolding in the world, even among his people, however, he knows the hearts of people and knows that people will try to do what is necessary to deal with the problem, even if it is among His people who worship him, in addition, not only we are imperfect, but we have Free-Will, and this gift, to some is seen as both a blessing and a curse, for an individual can use said free will to do good or to do bad, this was the case in the Old Testament with what people were doing with younger ones and how God reacted, even using his people to deal with the situation at hand - it is no different today.

That being said, Tom is correct on percentages though, for people do care about the statistics, this is the only reason why child abuse safety and prevention website even post such things to begin with as well as the countries and the like affected in regards to percentage values, all having vital information for the reader to look into and research for themselves.

In the end, targeting a group will not reap any fruit because it will spawn comments, insult and reproach to God and contribute to the decline.

You also mentioned Facebook information, if you would provide I will look into it myself, as I do with a majority of denominations already.

So in short, Christians will obey authority and the laws, but should conflict rise, they will defend their faith in the best and worse situations for they will not change what is written for anyone, as God stated in Deuteronomy 4:2 and what Jesus stated in John 10:35 -  We must not add, change or remove from the word nor can we break or assume scripture can be broken (scripture cannot be broken), that being said, ARC has done a job well down on working with what rules and regulations the faith follows, even acknowledging of what these things are compared to others who make it into something that it is not, for we have to remember, of what is written and what is law in the bible, us as Christians must follow and adhere to.

 

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@TrueTomHarley So you didn't want to answer my question ? 

What is the question exactly?

Also regarding following the laws of the land, Christians will obey laws, pay taxes, give back things to Caesar as Jesus said, etc, however, they will and always will be ready to not let the laws of the land conflict with either Scripture and or belief, and most importantly, God the Father of whom they pay total servitude and religious worship to, even if in some cases it, a great deal of resistance against various laws that will hinder anything biblical and or service to God, it will not go unchecked by those who follow the bible.

Paul wrote something of the like in the Romans epistles during the reign of the ruthless emperor, Nero, of whom Paul had to appeal to for he was wrongly accused and imprisoned (Acts 25:11) and was kept under guard prior to his case (Acts 28:30), and information from Peter also (and a bit of the Tanakh/OT) - for no Christian would want to be put in a position that his or her service of religious worship to the one True God as well listening to  His Spoken Word, would be at risk regarding said laws of the land, there's a phrase for it but I went blank on it, but a Christian would not allow laws to stop them having what they put first in their lives, which is God and his Kingdom that is to come.

The Law above laws is of God's and only his, should anyone attempt to stop it, there will be those who will resist,for we have examples in the scriptures of such.

On 3/17/2018 at 3:53 PM, Noble Berean said:

Let's not do whataboutism. The organization has frequently used the pedophile cover ups in the catholic church and secular institutions to support their moral superiority and divine backing. So should we now accept that this organization is no better than them? Isn't the whole point that our org is BETTER than these other religions/organizations because we are a spiritual paradise?

I understand that child abuse is a problem that cannot be stamped and is present in all large organizations. BUT the organization has done itself no favors by doubling down on their messed up policies which have allowed abuse to continue in congregations. And they have been completely zip-lipped with their own members--refusing to be transparent about this ongoing problem. JWs are owed transparency on this matter. It's the least they could do.

Everyone speaks of pedophilia and child abuse and cover-ups, no matter the faith, the background or affiliation, be it religious or non-religious and when such is done, no such persons hold up to any moral superiority (this is a first of such I have seen), especially in an imperfect world who abuses the gift given to them, the gift of Free-Will.

I wouldn't say it is an acceptance of who is better and who is not. Church organizations tend to be better in theology, scripture, teachings and the like than others, for they are the shepherds to their flock, those who follow such churches are people of different backgrounds, and since most churches tend to Evangelize people regarding what is said in the bible about making disciples and the like and teaching the gospel to a multitude of people. As for Spiritual Paradise, there is still imperfection no matter who the person is.

As for policies, if someone follows what is scriptural, it does not make it messed up, foolish and or ridiculous, for anyone hardpressed in scripture will follow it and live by it, that being said, I take the word of the ARC on how regarding the rules and regulations of said faith and at least come to a conclusion as to the how and why such rules they have are so, in addition to that, if they have information on child abuse to teach to their followers, should the followers accept it, that tells you something, for not many are willing to teach about child abuse unless it actually happens unexpectedly among the community of a faith. Plus elsewhere there has been many, many discussions about the rules, beliefs of other faiths in addition to their policies, with fact and how such is used, I know enough, as do others who really look into it themselves instead of some randoms making a rule out into something that it is not.

As for speaking to the members of said issues, it is up to them if they want to keep it among the leaders within that church location and or tell their members this, only if such is okay with the family/victim and the sake of the victim and guardian of the victim, you have to respect that. Some matters at times are kept private, only known by the leaders and the family of the victim, or should the family state they want to time to heal before anything can be said to others, as for the abuser, what can simply be said is so and so has has removed and or no longer with the church, something along those lines and evidently later on they will know the reason why, but again, depends on those in authority within the church or institution and how the family is involved if their child is victim.

I say this because some parents of victims tend not to want such information disclosed about what they have been through to be made public to local churchgoers, and respecting one's privacy until their ordeal has been dealt with is a a positive thing. Even outside of a church, parents of the victim will have very few and or specific persons of whom they disclosed the information of child abuse to, which will eventually get on the radar of the police, this has been heavily expressed in PSAs regarding child abuse met to teaching adults, teens, and children alike and options available, teaching them of personal spaces, talking to people you trust (talking to adults on what took place, asking of other adults, etc), for anyone in those age groups witness child abuse or know the signs and or dealing with someone who has already been affected, especially when it comes to young ones, unaware of what happen and is confused, keeping the information secret from others and will only express the truth about the abuse to someone that they trust, it could be parents, other than the parents, it could be a friend, a teacher, a neighbor, etc. In the end, it is there choice of how they want to deal with the situation to have  positive outcome for the family and the victim. PSAs and  information can easily be found, I would post some here, but obviously what is said in the PSAs is and will evidently be ignored when the reality and truth is expressed through them.

For there is a saying, respect the wishes of the family, should they choose to go down that route, no matter who they are or what they believe, to go back should said person bring it up only makes you not a trusted person.

But I do strongly agree, Child Abuse is indeed a problem, a big problem, and it is among the branches of other things like human trafficking, sacrifice/killing of children, etc. Other things, even minor things is considered Child Abuse and will result in your own children to be taken away from you, etc. Also you have to also realize it isn't not always an adult that is the abuser, when it comes to that point, it becomes very difficult and complex of how things are dealt with in order to help the victim of this form of child abuse. Another thing to note is you have to be aware that no matter the group or institution, they will most likely do an internal investigation first while on the other hand the victim's family will aid and or seek help outside of the internal investigation if or if not said persons called the police.

An example of internal investigation regarding child abuse, a teacher having had intercourse with a minor outside of school grounds (sometimes on school grounds itself), said teacher had been exposed via internal investigation, 50% of the time it is found out via social media or a high probability due to the student who is the victim. The school will zero in on teacher and fire her, and with what is known, the police is contacted by the school and or the victim's parents when the school informs them of such conduct (often times the parents do the investigation themselves before contacting the police) and not many are made known as to why said teacher was fired until months later down the road when said information is given the green light to be made public with the minor and or major evidence against the abuser, that is, the teacher - rarely is police called immediately when a known abuse is present, especially with the recent cases in both public and religious schools in the US. The teacher, now removed, school continues day in and day out, the victim will return should he chooses to and will seek counsel about his ordeal should he accept it, the parents of the victim will be on high alert and learn about child abuse themselves and or is informed about it by the police.

That being said, internal investigations is pretty much the norm to religious, business, and educational based institutions, and or secondary groups/activities, etc.

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you drill into the data (and this is discussed on the other thread - opposers have seen fit to start not just one, but TWO, simultaneous threads - it becomes evident that Jehovah's Witnesses have a greater prevention rate of child sexual abuse ten-fold over that of anyone else!

The data is evident on those who do such things, what opponents of the JWs or opponents of religion in general, do not understand is that they are creating a monster that they cannot tame, perhaps already running wild and about from the things I have seen and read, for they fail to see child abuse is all over and target a specific faith because of said faith suffering from child abuse who is obviously not immune to such things, now in regards to the United Kingdom, they will scream, rant and lose their minds on the problems the JWs are dealing with  child abuse on their end, but these same opponents will not bat an eye for the children affected by Rotherham Grooming Gang, the Haut de la Garenne, Newcastle sex rings, and a plethora of other groups and institutions with people of bad intent that have mingled among them without being noticed.

This also goes for those who claim child abuse and attack Christianity and the Bible (some goes as far as to rip and burn it no matter the translation), or in this case, religion as a whole, so when one attacks a JW, a Unitarian, a Jew or a Muslim, etc, the blame will just automatically be pinned on religion regardless of the faith, some may have it bad than others and suffer from physical harm should they be targeted on the streets because of their faith, for at that point it won't be persecution, it will just be shear brutality on said person, and I am sure the Jehovah's Witnesses are aware of the early 1900s, for ever since the whole NFL kneeling thing, the history was talked about.

Now, it is understandable, for those who do bad, we can't have anyone in the weeds, so to speak, but at the same time, to be brutal with a group and twisting scripture against them only contributes to bigger problems, something such persons cannot see, and only few people like me, you and others tend to be aware of people who do such things.

For better solutions and better ways on dealing with child abuse has been throw out the window and people seem to stick to just attacking a religion for a problem that is weaved within the very land they walk on.

The more the silliness continues, the more of the very people and their supports that were in Detroit a few years ago will only get stronger, and Christianity itself will decline further and religion will be the subject of targeting more and more as the days go by.

As for the prevention rate, even with facts before them, they will ignore it sadly - someone brought this up elsewhere and the anti-religion crowd just attacked and ignored the information, for they were not targeting JWs, they were targeting religion as a whole, which is somewhat evident today that most religious people tend not to be aware of at times. I was once told, you can give a sick man medicine for his illness, but he will ignore it and not accept it, even though it can help in dealing with his pain, in this sense, even with facts you provide, they'll ignore and not accept it, and continue on a warpath without having better solutions and ways of going about the issue of child abuse - going as far as to twist fact to tickle the ears of the masses to join the same foolish cause when others are doing it the right and correct way in gunning for the problem at hand and not a specific group of persons.

That being said, my opinion, as do most, the best way to really prevent child abuse in most cases if faced with it as best as we can is just to educate the child and or parents, friends, relatives, etc. This has been the case with one of the victims in the JWs in regards to the ARC due to Watchtower articles on child abuse revealing to her what it actually is, and even outside of the Watchtower, this is the position that people have taken, which is smart. Such has helped some people learn about the issue that others have gone as far as to make thousands of videos on this subject for saying at least one child is a plus on anyone's part for educating someone on child abuse be it videos, articles, or verbally, and the like, for when a child is taught on the issue they can identify the signs of child abuse should it starts on them or someone they know.

But what to expect by people living in a box, not taking the moment or even having a mere thought of looking and or stepping out of the box for once - that is today's society for you.

They'll continue to do what they do instead of talking with the person, they will attack them and or their faith because of said subject, child abuse, and never, not even once (surprisingly), you have seen someone come to common ground on the issue at hand and what can be taught or learnt. Only one time when 3 people stepped up, they were attacked by opponents of the faith, the very man whom got a group of people to seek out and dislike, bash, insult these individuals. I believe John had posted of whom I speak, for the gofundme link was a direct link to who this British man is.

One day it is going to come to a point where someone is going to get hurt via influence opponents will spread in public and or online, and surprisingly some have speculated that was the case regarding a hate crime in the UK - but later down the road, who knows how worse it could get, since religion, well in this case, Christianity is not as fancied by some as it was before.

16 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

I don't believe you are in a position to tell me what I may post on or may not post on. Darn internet free speech police.

On the contrary, it is nothing to do with position - fact, for anyone is capable of calling out such things on forums of any kind, for if you are probably fairly new to the internet, people will response and or react to grave-digging a post and or a thread (necroposting) and will call it out and or remind the user (often it is people who are unaware and or newcomers to a forums who do such things and are often reminded and or called out for it), for me I am just a mild type of person who calls out to this type of thing, which should be a lucky case for you, compared to the violent ones that will spark flame wars on forums for any person bringing up or bumping an old thread, regardless of what it is - that being said all I am telling you is that what you have done is grave-dig/necroposting, for if this was your thread, it is understandable, it is called a thread/post bump (update), but seeing as the user who made this thread was inactive for more than 600+ days and other comments with the nearly the same span of time, the last comment coming from "Gone Away" a mere comment that does not add to the thread falls in that category of grave-digging or necroposting - therefore being entirely irrelevant and the thread will not get any sort of attention, whatsoever for what is said is done by the final commentor and or user of said thread, after all that is where such terms come from in regards to internet forums, but let it be a reminder, you are not the first.

Also I agree, freedom of Speech, but it is common sense to be heard by others on an active discussion than a dead one and or one that has already come to a strong conclusion - such as this one.

Grave-Digging and or Necroposting, in addition to calling people out about it is not "Internet Free Speech Police" lol, vastly different from each other by a very large margin, perhaps two margins, for the term you brought up basically does not equal  to what I have mentioned - the facts and information, found on the internet of course, automatically solidifies this - of which can be proven should one look up thread grave-digging and or necroposting compared to what you have mentioned, which seems to be an non-existent term and or not relating to anything in regards to forums and or forum function and users.

Just next time look at the date and the date of the end comment.

 

If you like bringing up dead comment sections and or threads, the only place to best do this, other than a forum(s) is YouTube, for there anything goes and you are bound to get a response from even a 6 year old closed discussion, should anyone see what you posted, not being blanked out by Goggle Algorithms in today's YouTube.

That being said, both of us can sit back and watch the already high probability of this thread going down into the pages as more active and recent threads are always updated with recent comments and discussion and or made by active users who still log on here, and this 2016 thread will return from which it came prior to the grave-digging done on your part, and it going down is already predicted - as this is 100% common with those who necropost such threads, the public irrelevancy, and said thread just going page by page as new ones are made - and my message will just be a reminder to others anyways, and they aren't the first.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

WOW!    It's amazing what some people get out of an obvious shaggy dog story !

I felt sorry for a man who had no shoes ...

... until I met a man with no sense of humor, and who misunderstood EVERYTHING!

 

Some people tend to not have a sense of humor when they are running through emotions and or serious, other times, they do not get the joke until later on. To some who are troubled, they rather have a good laugh than another tough and or hard day.

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The authorities who must view child porn in the course of doing their jobs liken it to Medusa: "One look and you turn to stone"

Unfortunately, it tends to get worse for them sometimes, as well as overwhelming. But as one will say, a job's a job no matter how good or bad it gets.

But the problem though is society today accepts and encourages such misconduct, which will influence those with such problems to target children even more. As we speak, there are those against such things who are now claiming and or pointing the finger at people of faith/denominations Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

That being said, the fight against child abuse and pedophilia only gets far more difficult as the days go by and now we have things like this: http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article204292464.html

Mind you, just like the Asia and European countries, it is widespread in the US also, perhaps far more greater than how it was around the last couple of years.

The only possible way to prevent such things the best way we can is to educate people, be it verbally or by articles, reading, radio, etc regardless of who they are, this is what people do not understand and when it happens to them or their child then things will end up going on a crazy and bumpy road. For if we can teach a child and a parent about stranger danger, about drugs, about sex, about alcohol, internet, bully prevention, growing up, etc.we can do the same with the likes of child abuse, as well as give warning of pedophilia, so people can see the signs - for this is, for some, better ways, and the common rule should a child be abused, they can tell an adult, if one adult is able to help or not, they can speak to another adult, be it a teacher or a police officer, even should said adult direct you to such persons, which people seem to forget they have a voice to speak on the behalf of the victim, especially parents, a friend and or relative.

For any man or woman who condemns isn't doing much to help the problem, for such persons can do what they can to help anyone by providing such information and teaching on the subject.

But sadly, I said it before, people prefer the witch hunt and targeting others when there are better ways of handling things. Witch hunts and targeting people will not help any child or at least prevent something from happening to at least one child, but it is what it is today in the US.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

I DID NOT CALL IT AN ERROR.

For an intelligent man, you are quite naïve of Wt.’s deceptive tricks.  What was my comment about?  What was I explaining? 

I will leave it at that. 

Never said you said such a word, I merely said you "for you consider that an error" I said this because what you posted here reflects what you have posted in the very thread I linked, for previously you stated that the WT has been deleting words when the reality is no rule was violated nor was any Strong's changed and or removed at all, but perhaps using "false" or the word "wrong" would have been a better choice - but the response would have been the same regardless, as with anyone who has made or lean on what they deem as  errors, falsehood, lies, wrongdoing, etc in terms of the manuscripts used and or denial of the Septuagint or any modern critical editions of the Septuagint, a response from people who knows such information will follow suit.

It is you who are naive for I have already stated similar information before, yet you continue to speak as such of a 1900s interlinear that sheds no violation in the realm of textual Criticism, let alone Biblical Hermeneutics, for most Interlinear bibles follow the same rules and rarely do they suffer from any violation unlike its counterparts of several Textus Receptus' that differ from Stephen's. An intelligent man would know the difference and realize what an Interlinear originated from, a blind man will continue to chuck stones at something he considers false.

The Bengel's rule; Lectio difficilior potior (Latin for "the more difficult reading is the stronger") for it is the main principle and rule of critical text also known as Textual Criticism, in this case, the Canons of textual criticism in regards to majority of interlinear translations. There is no deception, if you want deception, I can show you right up from from the Hebrew Old Testament to the Greek New Testament of something "added" and or "deleted" and or not matching any of the Strong's at all, for I have already given an example, 1 Timothy 3:16, perhaps several, 1 John 5:7, Acts 8:37, the list goes on for anything not using the oldest and most reliable source when it comes to scripture or those who tend to be leaning towards the Comma Johanneum.

As for the Interlinear Bible produced by the Watchtower, there is no deception, no matter the disdain you have for them which is evident, for it is very simple -  that bible used a variation of two manuscripts: Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, one can speculate that the 1550 (Stephen) was also used as well, but it is uncertain for most Interlinear translations done by the Bengel's rule tend to be similar to each other, an example would be the Novum Testamentum Graece, but the difference is this one tends to rely a bit more on another manuscript known as the Alexandrian text-type (Neutral or Egyptian).

Next time you speak of anything Interlinear, Watchtower's version or whatever Interlinear you want to bring up, know especially what manuscripts it is using before you say what you say in your comment here and on your other post, this way you better understand not just scripture, but also of what is the very things that allows you to even have a bible today - be it in your very hands, or a quick search and a click of a button.

That being said, no one can really claim deception of an interlinear expect some of the several TR's available and which translations use them.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Watchtower’s Greek Interlinear uses “upon”:

Rev 5:10  - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/revelation/5/

RNWT – “and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

There is quite a bit of difference.  Makes you wonder why they changed it in their Bible.  At least it should make you question their intentions.  The GB have themselves in mind; the higher they believe they can ascend, the bolder they become in falsehoods.  

There is no difference nor is it their intention, for anyone who understands and respect Koine Greek and the manuscripts, they can see this with their very eyes. For the translation of this verse in regards to their interlinear has not broken any rules whatsoever. For you to consider that an error is quite laughable when one can review what is true online and with the facts placed before them, they will see that the interlinear made by the WT was not in error - which I have said and proven to you before.

I said this to you before, and I will say it again, learn your Greek. There is no issue with "upon" for that very word is within the Strong's itself and no Strong's that differ from it, especially its use in said verse - in addition to various translations who uses that Greek word and use a word that derives from that Greek Strong's and that it alone. For it isn't the Watchtower's doing, it is the TR's itself of which said translations from the manuscripts derive from. The fact I have stated this to you before and you ignoring that pretty much proves you ignore the very manuscripts of which the bible originates from. I will re-post that link to my response to one of your interlinear comments, which I have already proven by my information to be fact, correct and true in terms of the sources used to translate such verses to the bible itself:

 

• http://biblehub.com/revelation/5-10.htm
• http://qbible.com/greek-new-testament/revelation/5.html
• http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B66C005.htm

Revelations 5:10

Quote

 

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
kai epoihsaV hmas tw qew hmwn basileis kai iereiV kai basileusomen epi thV ghV

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
kai epoihsaV hmas tw qew hmwn basileis kai iereiV kai basileusomen epi thV ghV

Byzantine Majority
kai epoihsaV autous tw qew hmwn basileis kai iereiV kai basileusousin epi thV ghV

Alexandrian
kai epoihsaV autous tw qew hmwn basileian kai iereiV kai basileusousin epi thV ghV

Hort and Westcott
kai epoihsaV autouV tw qew hmwn basileian kai iereiV kai basileuousin epi thV ghV

Latin Vulgate
5:10 et fecisti eos Deo nostro regnum et sacerdotes et regnabunt super terram

American Standard Version
5:10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth.

Bible in Basic English
5:10 And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are ruling on the earth.

Darby's English Translation
5:10 and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth.

Douay Rheims
5:10 And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.

Noah Webster Bible
5:10 And hast made us to our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Weymouth New Testament
5:10 And hast formed them into a Kingdom to be priests to our God, And they reign over the earth.'

World English Bible
5:10 And made them kings and priests to our God, And they reign on earth.'

Young's Literal Translation
5:10 and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'

 

 

Now as for the WT interlinear:

Quote

¹⁰ ???and ????????you made??????them??to the???God????of us?????????kingdom???and??????,priests,???and????????????they are reigning???upon???the???.

 

Look at also: https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/rev/5/1/t_conc_1172010

??? (epi)Greek Strong's  #1909

A. upon, on, at, by, before

B. of position, on, at, by, over, against

C. to, over, on, at, across, against

??? epí, ep-ee'; a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (with the genitive case), i.e. over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.:—about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, × have charge of, (be-, (where-))fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-)on (behalf of), over, (by, for) the space of, through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), with.

 

I won't bother with root words this time because you seem to be ignoring pure facts regarding the very manuscripts that a majority of translators and copyist translates such to a readable verses/sentence, no one else expect the KJV translators have alter words that have Strong's in them, again, Textual Criticism.

Once again, I'm willing to even go as far as to find twice as many translations who respects the manuscripts and the Greek language. The silliness with some needs to stop. When you respect God's word, you also have to respect the very thing the bible comes from and or the very thing that is the reason as to why the bible exist today.

 

An error would be using a word that has no place in the verse to being with, an example if 1 Timothy 3:16 whereas few translations added God instead of HE, to make it seem that the Son was the Father, throwing people in to falsehood entirely and the only known bible to do this falsehood is the KJV/NKJV. Textual Criticism allows one to see this error and compare it to other translations who are in the right for that same verse the King James has altered.

I say this always, but it would seem you are not careful at all. But it seems to you if that interlinear was wrong, the very Strong and sources itself are wrong also, therefore, making all bible translation and the Septuagint itself, in error.

On 3/16/2018 at 2:34 PM, Matthew9969 said:

Sounds like this man is not sinning, just wants to worship God.

Was it that necessary to grave dig a 2016 thread when it is March 17, 2018, to be specific a thread posted March 25, 2016 (about 722 days), with a small comment? It would not have been much of an effort to simply contact the user via pm messaging: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/profile/5857-γιαννης-διαμαντιδης/

or wait until said user of this thread gives an update.

Don't let that happen again, for in doing so makes any comment without an update from the creator of the thread, obsolete and or irrelevant, especially if a person who didn't make this thread says something vague.

What is gravedigging?

Gravedigging is the term we use for reviving inactive threads the name is fitting, because you're basically just digging up things that are long gone.

Why is gravedigging so bad?

Why exactly shouldn't you gravedig? It's pretty simple: Reviving old threads clutters the forum. If everyone went ahead and posted on threads from a while ago, newer threads would struggle to appear from beneath the threads of old nonsense. If one person revives an old thread, other people end up posting on it too. Those members will continue to bump an old thread, advertising it to even more potential posters. Often, an inactive thread will contain outdated information on a particular topic. We want to make sure that you're getting all the updates you need, and so avoiding bringing up older threads is best.

How can I tell if I'm about to gravedig a thread?

Knowing when you might be about to gravedig a thread is important. There might even be times where you avoid posting on a thread because you're worried about gravedigging it when it's actually okay. The age cutoff, when a thread goes from being active to inactive, is currently two weeks If a thread is on the first page of a section, you may post on that thread without being at risk of gravedigging, regardless of the age cutoff. If a thread is not on the first page of a section but has not yet reached the age cutoff, you may post on that thread without being at risk of gravedigging. You may also post on guides/tutorials, regardless of activity, without being at risk of gravedigging as long as you're posting something constructive, and not something like "great guide" etc. Pinned threads and staff members are also immune from gravedigging. In a nutshell, you can post on any thread that was last active under two weeks ago, and you can also post on threads that were not active under two weeks ago as long as they're on the first page of a section.

This also goes for ignoring Search Bars, in some cases.

Source

https://www.rtsoft.com/forums/showthread.php?26209-Spamming-And-Gravedigging-Explained

Information on this can also be Goggle'd on the Internet regarding ALL forums known on the internet.

Remember this, please, for if this was elsewhere, the CSE Christian Community forums, you would have been in a world heavy criticism for pulling that off there.

Aside from UK JWs investigation, they must also dealing with other groups who act under the radar, the no so religious ones, who literally take children underground or in expensive and private locations, to molest, torture and sometimes kill their child victims, at times, the child of the victims, born into this world, who are subjected to satanic sacrifice before they even have 1 month of life, which takes place right under the noses of the people of UK and the government, especially the likes of  PM, Theresa May.

I do not see why people tend to think child abuse itself is isolated within a single religious group, or just merely religion as a whole, for such is everywhere.

 

That being said, I had some sources I would have posted here regarding the UK as a whole, but the 1984 troop has wiped out that information a few days ago.

 

All in all, it will be the same as everything else in terms of the abused and the abuser.

 

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is amazing! I can’t sneak anything past you. You have hit the nail on the head! I am writing a book because I want to be

F. A. M. O. U. S ! ! !

@JW Insider,!!! Run to the art room and fetch me a picture of a brother with puffed out chest thumbing to to the yacht and mansion behind him and the piles of MONEY (but no bikini-clad woman, for this IS a brother and we ARE talking a family publication.

I want that brother to be   ME!!! 

Swimming Pools!

Movie stars!

Sheesh. I’m writing a book for the same reason anyone writes a book – because I have a story to tell. Have you ever been to a library? There are a lot of them in there. I want to put one there as well.

This is true with anyone! What is wrong with you? 

There has never been any question from the ARC or anyone else that they were getting the right numbers. The only reason they have any numbers at all is because Jehovah’s Witnesses track wrongdoing so as to punish it and warn others as necessary. No other faith even attempts to ensure that members should apply what they learn!! No one else goes there.

Jehovah’s Witnesses worship the Governing Body in the same sense that passengers on a plane worship the pilot when they refrain from kicking in the cockpit door to and grabbing the controls. This is not hard to understand to anyone who has not mentally made himself a ten-year-old!!

It is like when the reporters ask Tillerson "Did you call the President a moron??!!!" and he says "I'm not going to dignify that question with an answer" because he knows that if he says no, they will keep pressing him until he says yes, and if he says yes, they will run off with what they think is the story of the century!!!  even though people routinely call each other morons - whether seriously or in jest, and it means nothing!!

"Worship the Governing Body" my foot!! I mean, there is only so much you can do with a person determined to be stupid!!

It gets worse.

Punishment is fine – for child rapists no punishment is too great, but prevention is obviously the higher priority. It looks like every tenth person on the planet is a pedophile, so punishment, even when you do it right, only goes so far in solving the problem. And Jehovah's Witnessed DO punish. Quite severely when called for. But their way doesn't dovetail with the world's preferred way and THAT is what is being resolved. It is also the ONLY CONCERN John has!

I am so done with this fellow! He does not care about prevention – he has made the point over and over again. He only cares about shaming people and revenge! (on Witnesses) He wants to punish it after it happens but does not seem to care about if it happens in the first place!!!

He wants revenge! He wants to shame people! He could care less about stopping child sexual abuse!! That's not his thing.

Enough!

I am willing to disobey counsel in certain instances and engage with those who have fallen under the spell of single-issue fanatics, even if some of them also embrace apostacy.

But there is no way I am going to engage with one who would encourage pedophiles!!! He sees how it is being stopped to a ten-fold degree and it doesn't interest him at all!!!

 

The sad reality is that some may or may not accept is child abuse and the sickness that is pedophilia is far to great to be contained 100%. Some instances of preventing it or dealing with its aftermath, but it cannot be stopped. In regards to JWs and other faiths, even the so called mainstreamers who I disagree with, all are subjected to child abuse for it has infiltrated everything, even government. There is some stuff that the mainstream news and media isn't telling the people nor made public for such stories of child abuse deem far too brutal and explicit to some, perhaps far more unhinged compared to what is going on in religious, for it has a lot to do with the high and mighty people who partake in such things, the abusers.

That being said, it is unwise for some to condemn a group for child abuse, when it is all over. I say this because our schools, our police, our military, our churches, our institutions, our businesses, etc are subjected to child abuse, even our money that has gone to and out of the hands of wicked persons, as well as those committed to spreading child abuse.

But sadly, the whole child abuse thing has made a lot of people sad and angry so reactions and bursting how such vented emotions will eventually goes people to target persons and or groups due to child abuse.

Very soon stuff like this will end though and we will need not worry about child abuse. But as of right now, the problem is the spreading of child abuse and those who are accepting of it, while on the other side of the spectrum, people are trying whatever they can to minimize and or fight against child abuse the best way they can.

 

Elsewhere, the only literal fight (at times there has been fist fighting by some) some people are making a decision on in regards to child abuse is doing what they can to fight against people who accept pedophilia as if it is a good thing, people like in this image here, who pose a real threat and being the very persons who influence mentally ill pedophiles to seek out young people as if it is a good thing, there is a good reason as to why the bible says to not be part of the world:

 

As well as fighting against child grooming and marriage, something of which a majority of this world accepts, when in reality stuff like this is very wrong: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/11/29/pedophilia-in-the-us-more-than-200000-children-married-in-the-last-15-years/

But as someone once said, there are better ways to fight and or combat issues like child abuse, condemning a person or group or disrupting, attacking them is not the best way to go, for it causes the person or group to be targets while the real culprits are at work, infiltrating others and committing their vile crimes - but it seems not everything is outside of the box or thinking critically on this child abuse matter and will just go witch hunting instead.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@James Thomas Rook Jr. If you don't care about Child Abuse, why don't you just say so ? 

Child Abuse is a major issue and even if someone does not show such reaction to it, in their hearts they already know it is bad, despite not expressing it on places like the internet or a forum. For people will react the way they do, if they want to act tough at times, but in reality, it hurts them despite not expressing it on a social platform.

But I have said time and time again, no one is perfect, no one is pure, for in the realm of sexual immorality and child abuse it is at a global scale, and no matter the organization or the institution, child abuse will exist in some way, shape or form, and the abusers will always find a way to infiltrate such places, especially in, as the JW friends put it, worldly view, whereas pedophilia is deemed okay and normal, some take child abuse as a literal joke and or meme, silly as it seem, they even made a character of it such, which is ridiculous while the people on the social platform see it as funny to tag it, to screenshot it and to merge it with other images as a joke, when in reality, it is very very grim and serious.

The obvious truth is that child abuse will not halt and or cease one's pursuits of joining a religion or if said person is a convert to the religion of their choice. In regards to Jehovah's Witnesses, child abuse will not stop someone from joining the faith, no matter how hard you express something these people already know in regards to child abuse and religion - so it is not a good idea to condemn the group as a whole for the actions of a few bad persons, for all we know, we do not even know how the church leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses react to such problems, how they feel and so forth, but someone on the internet can easily take the words of others and being one-sided in this whole situation and attack the leaders head on who have nearly 8.3 million JW Christians with them, as the Muslims put it, the JW Tribe.

For if we are to condemn a whole group, then we must also condemn hospitals, educational institutions, the police force and several others for if we are to do the same for a religious group(s), we should do the same for such places too, even going as far to condemn either friends or family members who took part in child abuse. For in the past (present also), police officers have been subjected to child abuse and assault, some take it further by using their position to abuse their victims, either one or multiple victims, the destroying of child pornography images and videos in an botched attempt to destroy evidence, despite the ruins of said material being found via investigation. Despite the actions of such people who are sworn and by law to serve and protect, some of them abuse their power, be race, the sex of the person they target, class and age, and some victims are either children and or teenagers who are not even old enough to know what a Bank Levy, in some cases, some being involved with child and sex prostitution rings, for a change of a few dollars prevents such things to be kept in the dark by the wicked people who themselves partake in such things. In the end, we do not condemn the police force or the leaders of a department, unless they too are involved, hence why we still have the police around and to this day there is always the good cop and the bad cop,for the bad ones tend to get away while others get the book thrown at them, the good cop will continue to do good in the eyes of his/her department, his community and his/her family and friends. The police force and the military are no different from each other in terms of doing good for the community and family, but just like the police, even the military has a few bad eggs, like with recent news about the US military and their Afghan allies.

Many Hospitals around the world do not even follow guidelines for child abuse patients, and some are involved in the crime and or just pure neglect. Some doctors and nurses who have access to children and or teenagers tend to be the abusers to their victims also, regardless of this, it doesn't stop the outsiders from going to said Hospital, for the Hospital is a place to get checked out and or treated, the same can be said of a small doctor's/nurse's office, for if anyone in that area is an abuser, they will be dealt with in time, and replaced with someone of the same title and position who has a clean record and no mental issues, and life goes on as it should and such places are still areas of which strangers both young and old dwell in.

Same thing goes for other things, social media and online video games (possibly the subtly in these things tend to be very dangerous) to where abusers also use and prey on young victims, especially on popular games the kids play nowadays Minecraft, Call of Duty, etc (apparently old fashion Mario and Donkey Kong is too retro for today's tech kids) for predators will pose as a "friend" in the game to lure their victims, despite such cases already, especially the recent Minecraft one that had a happy ending to it for the child and her family (link here), the games were not commended, but the parent's as do others also, are told to better supervise and educate children of online games, as well as social media, for back then to now, social media was literally haven for abusers - some also who bribe children to do things, at times offering real money just so they can blackmail the victim and record or take images of them, a situation similar to a friend of mine who passed away via suicide due to exposure and blackmail, for I have mentioned this before here.

Educational Institutions is tricky, for in normal schools, most of the abusers tend to be female instead of male, and tend to get away with what they have done by prostituting themselves to an adolescent, other times, the female abuser will get a less sentence compared to their male counterparts (In the US, the culprits are mostly Caucasian - statewide). In addition to that, no one bats an eye because of how the teacher physical looks, for how it seems in the eyes of the law who investigate such in the educational institutions, the more pretty she looks, the less of a sentence. But like the others, you cannot condemn a school or the one who runs the school who at least make an attempt to deal with the situation, at times, the head of the school or the board are not always involved and if they are, they just simply say the teacher no longer works here - the same can be said of teacher abusers to students in Universities and Colleges, and I can tell you, there is a good side and a really, really dark side to Universities and Colleges, very explicit.

But yes, no one is going to condemn a religion for child abuse, if anything it is merely by choice should one does such or if it is the actual family of the victim or the victim themselves, it won't stop someone from joining said religion, faith and or church congregation, especially those who are or has Evangelicals/Missionaries and try to do what is right in terms of bible scripture. For if we are to condemn a faith, we are to condemn nearly everything else that is involved with government, this includes the American Dollar for some of the money is used in the Deep State in regards of child abuse, despite it being a necessity.

In my case, I am a Unitarian, similar to that of Jehovah's Witnesses, but even us Unitarians have several denominations, and when one of them do something, people will not just bash on us for it, they bash on the Christian faith itself, for child abuse is also an issue with us, but it does not stop me from following the faith, nor does become the very thing that keeps me away from bible reading and study. This goes for the church leaders of the Unitarian denominations, for even they differ, but the effect of child abuse has proven to be a problem with them, as do other religions.

Other cases, some people become sex offenders for being wrongly accused and or lied to, Zach Anderson being a prime and recent example of such - for he was not a pedophile, but the girl who got him into deep trouble was the root of him becoming a sex offender, avoiding 25 years. His life was obviously ruined,and to this day some side with him while other attack him or accuse him of being a pedophile.

As for the Jehovah's Witnesses and their leaders, just like everyone else, child abuse is an issue that is not easy to contain, for since anyone can be a member of their faith, anyone can come and have access to children and but out of the bunch you may have that one guy or girl who has a ill desire of children, and in order to get the trust of others and the kids, they will either work hard to just get a position of authority and use said authority to lure children in, as such is the case with anything pertaining to child abuse - for the bad people can and will infiltrate any religion of their choice just to cause a scene and or take action. And just like everyone else, they will do what they can to minimize the situation, in some cases, internal investigation or the like without breaking religious law, and should they find anything, they will advise the victim and or the victim's parents of the problem if the victim has not spoken up to their parents yet. Since it was said before, the JW elders will advise them to seek out authorities and should authorities ask for the help of the one who did the internal investigation should such an event is raised.

You may not be a Jehovah's Witnesses anymore, but what you can do to help them is to educate them on how to identify child abuse, so should an abuser attempt to join them in that church, they will be ready and not be caught off guard, for training on signs of abuse is a thing that people tend to do for sometime now, for educating such persons helps at least one child, which is something you can do like many others, but if you are to do it, be on the same level as the person you are speaking to, as well as being mild with them, and if you have a chance and close with a child or two, you can teach them if someone is bothering them, before any action is taken, the child, who has been educated on what child abuse is, will react - which is the same thing about an adult teaching a child about strangers, you can teach them about child abuse also, as with other things, so they can be aware and alert, for the children I speak to in my family and my friend's family this subject was raised and with what they know, they taught other children also, some who are of a different faith and nationality than them also. Regarding their faith, work with what they believe and what laws and rules from scripture they go by if you have to, for anyone who is bible strict, you have to work with them on their level.

Now, your other biggest problem is dealing with the situation of child grooming, child brides, child and or young adolescent forced to marry the very man that raped them, for such things do exist in America due to law, Florida being one of many of the states, while outside the US, such things is all over like wildfire in a forest, human sex trafficking, as well as child to child abuse and a field of other things in terms of abuse. For this world is full of sin and sinners, and should you choose to condemn everything or anyone because of child abuse, you may as well build a cabin house in the woods far far away from civilization, but the reality is, we all have to see this world for what it really is, imperfection and the sins of man, for even a good man can sin and commit child abuse, and their actions will effect those around them and the community. As for pedophiles what they to are danger to themselves, but at the same time, you have to realize that these people are sick in the head too, pedophilia is said to have an unknown origin, but tends to affect such person at birth as some say, and for them, it is as if they are born with a demon, one that cannot be expelled easily and should they go unchecked, they will enact what they see fit in targeting young children, be it teens or even young toddlers, other cases pedophilia of an older child can manifest and they will end up taking action on someone smaller and obviously not stronger than them.

For wherever there is children or a child, expect that there is or will be a predator near by, could be a churchgoer, a neighbor, a teacher, a gym coach, that guy at the store who is close with your family, or the obviously disturbed man in the car who is going around the neighborhood seeking to kidnap someone, and in most cases, it is most likely the relative, specifically the Father of the household who is the abuser, rarely it is the mother, but some situations this is the case. As for those outside of what is going on, also expect that they can or cannot help, as I said before, such persons tend not to get involved, especially if it can get them subjected to, injured, and or killed (or become the killer if involved) if it comes to that (a recent story: Lithuania Pedophile Controversy), regardless of their faith and or position, for at times they will simply give advise and or inform you to seek someone who is of better help. I say this because I was a kid myself, all of us were, and as an adult now, I take the word of a child for inner my circle of family and friends, the word of a child is key to truth - especially if the child is raised right and puts a great deal of trust in you. Educate the child or children on this matter, and if you have to, educate the parent of the child or relative, or someone close to them if you manage to jump on that subject in a conversation in an attempt to teach said person about child abuse, the signs of an abuser and or victim, etc.

Child abuse can only be prevented in some cases, if after, things can be done to help the victim(s), we cannot fight or stop such a thing, for if we are to think of such, we have to question ourselves if that is even possible for we cannot stop war, famine or racism, sickness, etc and we cannot stop child abuse - a reality we have to accept and be aware of in a world full of wickedness. All we can do is offer help and do the best way we can, some better than others, some will do the best that they can in regard to the problem, but in an imperfect and immoral world that thinks pedophilia is okay when the reality is it is a sickness that plagues the abusers at birth, it is very difficult and to some pose not just a threat, but a daunting challenge to deal with. You'd be surprise that not only the victims are helped, but the abusers affected by the ill desire brought upon them due to pedophilia are also fighting their demons, and there are people who have to deal with keeping such persons in check to prevent such ill desire to overtake them which will soon beget action that can land them in a world of hurt and trouble, and in some cases, exile, as for some victims, they tend to even go out of their way to forgive their abusers, which is rare in some occasions.

That being said, all of us have to be aware and vigilant, should we have to, better to educate people about such a matter and accept the fact that child abuse is a thing that has been around for ages and will not go away until God gives the okay for his Son to return to earth prior to end time tribulations, only then we will know that the days of the wicked are numbered, and the battle against child abuse that is an unwanted plague of mankind will most definitely be dealt with, only then we can breathe easy when that day comes when such things will be a thing of the pastas with other troubles and anxieties we have today.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you see a political nation in the world that kills the anointed ones that it has come against?

wall of text.

I can't help but see you like mixing verses again, quoting, but vague in the realm of hermeneutal interpretations whereas the eyes can see, in addition to total discernment.

That being said, there is a portion of the government that is against several other groups of people, this includes Christianity, even though I am not a fan of the Trinitarians/Modalist, the New Agers, and the mainstreamers, etc, this so called the Deep State (Shadow Government) is indeed a major threat to everyone -  especially with what went down with Syranic and Aramaic Christians in the Middle East, and since the topic is about Jehovah's Witnesses, the masterminds behind the Russian Ban, which reinforced of what has been talked about since 2016 to 2017 and onward, the State Duma and the like which swept the country by storm; now already predicted by some which is now a true reality, for instance the Russian Election of this month.

The effect is worldwide friend, and it will come for everyone and everything, some will be taken by surprise, some will be aware, some will be easily persuaded by such persons.

1 minute ago, AllenSmith said:

Spoken like a true unreasonable person without wisdom!

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1526588/child-child-sexual-assaults-rise-uk-police/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/09/number-child-on-child-sexual-assaults-almost-doubles/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/03/claims-child-sexual-offences-soar-england-and-wales-police-barnardos

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/20/child-sex-crimes-reach-record-high-says-charity/

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse/sexual-abuse-facts-statistics/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4641927/sexual-assault-children-rise-school/

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201802201061834967-child-sex-abuse-rise/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0046760X.2016.1177122

So, don’t think for one second you have the moral high ground! Especially coming from the UK in general.

What people need to realize is religious child abuse can't be stopped, in some cases it can be prevented a bit, especially in an imperfect world where child abuse and other vile acts run rampant and at times it is deemed "normal" by the general society, something people will find it hard to realize sadly. I, as a Unitarian, know that our denomination isn't immune to the likes of child abuse as well, with some being caught off guard of when it happens or the aftermath of it.

But Child Abuse in general is far worse in the UK, regardless of institution, and a majority of the abuse is done by a male, mostly a family man and or relative who does such things. I believe there was a bust on a pedophilia ring right under the noses of UK officials (obviously the corrupt among law enforcement and officials take part in the child abuse): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/11/1000-children-may-have-victims-britains-biggest-ever-child-abuse/

There were some grime things going on with that with children purposely being killed and or sacrificed, as they say.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/services-and-resources/research-and-resources/statistics/

I got more information, even videos of investigation in regards to child abuse (mental also with what the victim had to say), but it may seem a bit disturbing for some here -  for the victims spoke of not just child abuse, but the killing of other children and human and or animal sacrifices. This also includes some things in the US, which has not really be talked about.

On 5/27/2017 at 9:29 AM, Micah Ong said:

The guess name Jehovah is the same as the word “hovah”(Strongs 1943) in the first box to the left and means ruin or disaster. The guess name Yahvah is the same as the word “ahvah” (StrongÂ’s 5753) in the second box on the left and means to do perversely. The guess names “Yahveh or Yahweh” are the same as the word “ahveh” (StrongÂ’s 5773) in the third box on the left and means distorting, perverting! By adding a “J” or a “Y” to these these words and forming FALSE sacred names, the occult and mystic fabricators invented “Jehovah” and “Yahweh!”

Oh boy, not these kinds of comments and posts again.

First, you need to identity what Strong's are you using, seeing we are talking about God's name, it is evident the target Strong's is Hebrew.

Also you are breaking apart the name, for all together the very name means to exist, to cause to exist and or I become (I am that I am), etc.

That is like taking apart the word/name of others and using the meaning of said separate words as an excuse. It makes you no different from saying Jesus is a false name and taping that up with anything of the occult when the reality is the names Jehovah/Yahweh and Jesus/Yeshua is taken apart and merged with other broken up names - This is way some Israelis take issue with Western Christian who, as they say, butcher not just the truth at times, but God's name and Jesus' name.

Just to save myself the sanity of explaining such for the 100th time to anyone who says this kind of things I will post 2 videos.

And no, God's name has nothing to do with the occult because massive amount of evident proves that God's name, part of it, was taken and used to merge with and or mix with names of false gods, an example would be the name Jaobluen, for JAO is taken directly from the name Jehovah/Yahweh, merging that name with false god names such as Attis, Orisis and several others, a common practice done by occultism groups around the world, especially among those of Freemasonry.

 

 

As for the vowels, I can get in to that way in depth if you'd like. For I have a great deal of information on this.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think we must agree to differ. You keep going on about the ARC. What about the Charity Commision here in the UK. What about the Superior court of Quebec in Canada ? What about Reclaimed Voices in the Netherlands ? And what about the USA and the refusing to hand over the documents ? Then we have the IICSA here in the Uk that are most likely to act on what they know and have another investigation, whether joint with the Charity Commision or separately. Add to this the upcoming Protest in London in August, which they hope will go international.  https://www.gofundme.com/EXJW-Protest-London

With all do respect, this link you posted about this man, Neil Gardner, also known as the TheGreatApostate, was one of the very people who verbally attacked and insulted, in addition to leading an attack on 3 people on YouTube and Media, one of them who intervened on November 5th of 2017 prior to the protest in Warwick. The blame was pinned on JWs, however, only until Neil and the others rooted out this man, in addition to 2 others who lived in the Passiac and Orange county who defended him and the JWs for they were against church raiding and disruption, with Neil being among those who was on the attack.

I wouldn't use him as an example for even after the situation at Warwick, he spoke of the London event, which was not sitting well with others who are neutral with JWs or Christianity itself.

I spoke of this several months ago in a thread started by someone here in regards to the JW church disruption.

 

Mind you, the actions of the EX JWs didn't sit well with the non JW churches in the area, they backed out when the EX JWs called them up to help them out, for clearly the Christian churchgoers were nowhere to be seen before the videos were taken down.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Then the very recent report in Devon Live  https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/jehovahs-witness-used-position-abuse-1333304 

The  former Jehovah's Witnesses, and again as to what I have said previously, pedophiles (article spelled paedophile instead of pedophile) will infiltrate groups and sway their way into a position or trust with the people in order to feed their own sick desires. When the abuse became known the authorities were notified and the authorities took action based on the crime.

In addition to that, this was easily zeroed in to that specific congregation of church members in London, hence the victims.

In the end, the abuser has been dealt with.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

This situation is not going away. But as you seem to be acting like God himself. knowing good and bad about everything, then there is little point me wasting my time talking to you. You keep pretending there isn't a problem within the Org. Keep kidding yourself. As for me,  I will wait on God to sort it all out. Then when i feel the time is right I will rejoin the JW Org. My prayers go to God daily through Jesus Christ. I ask him for direction and for His help in knowing what He wants me to do. I do not need people like you to tell me what to do.

The situation can't stop nor will it go away. Pedophilia is rooted deep within our imperfections, the price of our early parents - for we know pedophilia is bad, and we also know it is a major mental illness that has an unknown root of origin, hence why pedophiles who know of their problem seek out aid from those trained in such field of study.

But yes, I agree on some things, for no group, organization, as well as the people in such groups, be it educational, religious, institutions, etc, no one is perfect nor can they strive to be perfect, what they can only do is do their best to minimize anything brewing among them and that's that.

For the day violence, sexual immorality, wars, death, etc come to an end, as well as the ending of child abuse that is on a global scale, it will be the day when all that is bad will be wiped out and hat is good shall remain for time indefinite.

In the mean time, there are people who stick to what is true and endure, as sad it may seem, endurance in truth is what keeps the people going, as for others who know the JWs tend to be strictly neutral with them - for any group that came out of the Second Awakening that continues to push closer to what is true even though at times they stumble, such groups like this some Christians do not attempt to bash or attack because in the end our actions is what God will see, for such actions can lead some to do drastic things, and eventually hatred, like the one who has posted that gofundme. For no one is going to go that far to take out a group and take out Christianity itself (which is happening in the UK and Asia).

That being said, all of us have to trend carefully, and endure because in the end, salvation can be easily be lost - we need to stand back up and keep walking and keeping ourselves in check and being careful as well as those around us.

In the end however, it is mainly the laws and the government that needs to be checked too, in some parts of the US, child grooming and marriage legal now, which will spawn far more pedophiles than one can realize. So the unchecked pedophiles that do not get their vile desires met in schools or religion, they will jump on this now legal opportunity, which spells danger for far more children in the states.

On 3/12/2018 at 2:12 AM, Nana Fofana said:

As regards economic consequences, Ashby Bladen, a senior vice president of The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, writes: “Before 1914 the monetary and the financial systems were compatible. . . . If one takes August 1914 as marking the dividing line between them, the contrasts between the nineteenth and the twentieth centuries are striking. In many aspects of human affairs there has been a complete reversal of trend. . . . One major reason was the severance of the linkage between the financial system and money with intrinsic value that began in 1914. . . . The breaking of the linkage was a momentous event. . . . 1914 marked a radical, and in the end catastrophic, transformation of that system.”

Yeah a lot of things took place prior to, during and after 1914. You'd be surprise of how many people believe that such year was big to some. In the world of Christianity, there are those who side with what the Bible Student leader, CTR, said. Though some of these groups have already ceased, they did take such a year with high consideration, as well as the aftermath.

Nowadays, it is more of mainstream Christians and those who bible bash or don't take into consideration of what the bible says or understand it, will be against what took place that year, as for you JWs, they tend to go open season on you guys on a daily basis without understanding anything at times. There are also those against other things like the fall of Sodom and Gomorah, The chariots under the Red Sea, trying to disprove that pillar of salt was not really Lot's wife, etc., in addition, false doctrines is the reason as to why Christianity is on the decline for some time now, with Islam catching up, especially in both Asia and European countries.

The other day, I had to deal with a mainstream Christian who was taught and believes that Homosexuality was okay with God. I told him exactly what the bible says, I also stated I do not hate anyone at all, but I do not like the conduct of such persons and told him that such conduct does not sit well with God, yet he attempts to refute, but fails.

I say to myself everyday, the world today will be and is basically like those in the days of Noah, and those who were down in Sodom and Gomorah who did not listen and kept doing vile things in the face of God.

In the end, endurance is key and real truth is like a car that gets closer and closer to your destination, eventually some will come to their sense and try to change their ways, for God's hand is always there for those who wants to change.

19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Back when dueling was legal, Fathers often solved the problem without a lot of discussion.

Depends, back in those days it was like this, but at the same times, things can get shady, and often more people involved, they played dirty, in addition to foul play, for the one who is doing bad will win over the guy who exposes him, and the bad guy gets out free without anyone going for him, or as you said, not being able to be in a discussion for his/her actions.

 

Nowadays, it is somewhat of the same, but a little more of this, a bit of he said, she said, blame games, lying, and a slew of other things. But the same thing, but with a lot of discussion.

That being said, the Justice System itself is broken, double standard, kissing up to the higher man, etc.

But this goes back from what I have been saying in regards to child abuse/pedophilia, the justice system may at times fight against child abuse, but at the same time they tend to somewhat make it a bit legal, for as of recent news in regards to child grooming/marriage, i.e. a child, mainly younger girls, force to marry their abusers. Elsewhere, laws have been passed that will even get a non-pedophile arrested and charged as a sex offender due to strict broken laws. This is just the United States.

European areas have far more explicit things and craziness going within the underground society, and anyone who speaks of this is easily shut down - mainly a reliable source I know Jake of Blackstone Intelligence, to name a few.

If anything, one must fight the justice system if they have to (the reason why people consider this a better way), root out their flaws for allowing such to even take place and making those who also partake in child abuse get off Scot-free, which also opens doors for child abusers to infiltrate various groups like bugs to a light, wherever there is children they will find a way to get to them, they will find a way to obtain respect, a position and authority just so they can have it easy to gain access to children.

Religious temples, mosques, buildings etc are not safe, regardless of the denomination, schools, clubs and educational groups are not safe (most pedophiles tend to be female in these cases and are left off easy sadly), business that houses and or contains children are not safe either.

Since we talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, they have obviously been breached by the storm and it has caused them to stumble a bit and in a position to try and minimize such persons who manage to get in their faith and like other it is not an easy task to deal with anything in regards to child abuse - for some of these cases, like many, tends to take place by means of a family member.

Other times in all child abuse cases or any form of sexual/violent abuses, 9 times out of the 10 it is the man and or husband of the household who has done it - then again it is always the husband who did it in regards to any crime.

Then we have the double standards which is a whole other can of worms on its own when it comes to race, sex, class, wealth, etc.

On 3/9/2018 at 6:51 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In context, these are actually the words of Robert Ringer, but I do recognize them as being valid.

Unfortunately, the Society's Lawyers, who should be fighting for Truth, and Justice, and honoring Jehovah's Name and purposes, have the same attitude towards victims of institutionalized child sex abuse ... and fight the victims and pervert true JUSTICE to save money for their clients, whoever they might be.

Actually, they are in a "Catch 22" situation ... they legally have a fiduciary responsibility to work in their employer's interests ... and Justice be damned .....

...and it is.

The reasons Lawyers can swim in any ocean on Earth, and not fear being bitten by sharks ... is professional courtesy.

 

Robert Ringer the entrepreneur?

Also that is true, but it would seem they do not want to break scripture or any religious law while doing so, hence fighting for justice and what is true at the same time despite being bounded by scriptural law too. For most religious groups who have their own lawyers tend to not attempt to break the religious views of their clients while fighting/defending such persons.

The only time there is total pressure against laws based on the bible is in areas such as the Middle East, sometimes in the European countries it varies to the point where at times they get a religious group to cry uncle in some cases. Israel had already had a field day with religious law vs secular law a few weeks ago - in this case, Israelis vs the Jews.

Some Lawyers in general tend to be in some cases whereas they are defending someone who should be obviously guilty of their crimes, so the fear of being bitten by sharks is somewhat high and bite mark that at times will leave a scar on them.

Speaking of lawyers (a bit off topic) who are not truly fan of people who they are end up defending, an example of recent events involve this clown: Martin Shkreli, for his very lawyer, Benjamin Brafman, who said the following"Sometimes I Want to Punch Him in the Face" even admits to federal officials, however he did add that the sentencing was harsh - for the very man, Martin, is hated by literally majority of the US, is getting 7 years.

But yeah there is a really big line between civil, secular and religious when it comes to the law, and lawyers will do what is best to not attempt to break at the same time, trying to avoid getting bitten by said sharks because there is a lot of them - for a single bite or two will leaving a scar and a reminder.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

You are right.  I misquoted you, and I apologize.  Your words to John Butler on 2/14 were:

“I would trust the KJV/NKJV 100% if I were you.  Several reasons, perhaps even more as to why I think as such, as do the majority of those who are aware of truth.”

Clearly a typo, as I expected you would go for that exact mistake I was unable to edit that day for I didn't spare much time to re-read my comments in regards to trying to reason with John. Plus this is exactly the very reason I said the following:  I can tell you right now straight up, I do have a few typos elsewhere, for everything prior to debating with Swihili and Cos had several typos. In addition to that, well over a majority of my comments was to not rely on the errors of the KJV/NKJV, even debunking the King James as I did against Cos here, you even saw my response to Allen in regards to Textual Criticism (pretty much meaning anti-KJ Bible), as to which I will also link below. For if anyone checks my history, they will see my view on the KJV/NKJV as to not be 100% inspired due to its errors, but to use a typo compared to the hundreds of comments I made, half of them against the KJV/NKJV, you have no ground here, therefore, my numerous comments pretty much shows the KJV/NKJV isn't accurate, it is not 100% inspired, it has errors, etc.

For Textual Criticism comment to Allen: 

 

For if I truly felt that is was the best translation, I would not have said what I said to Allen.Nor would my comments debating with shiwili and Cos would bear any ground. In addition to that, my comments on your thread would something else other than the ESV.

For if anyone who adheres to Textual Criticism, does not 100% adhere to the KJV/NKJV, to anyone who takes into account of Textual Criticism, will know that such is a direct focus to the KJV/NKJV being in error and not accurate, for the addition of uninspired verses with what is inspired, thus blinding people and the falsehood that is taught from false verses.

Another thing to add, clearly in that very thread I had several of my typos in, I quotes directly from the English Translation Version of the Bible for every single one of my responses to your response, which consist of Watchtower publications and KJV scriptures from bible-gateway, some of which that contained the uninspired verses that you linked to fit the response you were pushing then, hence John's response - to which I said the following in my response to you before I spoke to John:

The fun factor here is I am the only one on this forum (minus all content) here who ever stated such and if you look up Textual Criticism, all of those comments are made by me, so you assuming I think the KJV/NKJV is somehow more accurate when 100% of the time I quote ESV and I speak against the King James, you are mistaken - nor are you even aware of my "other" comments to John.

That being said, using my older comments that consist of typos (ignoring my response to you in that same thread) will not cover too much ground for you, especially when anyone can click my profile and simply look up "KJV", "NKJV" "Errors" "Textual Criticism".

Another one against you, for you even knew my view on the KJV bible:

My earliest comment to you on Posted February 11 prior to my comment to John (clearly all of this thread and another one, I had several typos here, and elsewhere - as I stated before you even posted a typo in order to accuse me of something of which I fight against every single day):

Quote

Anyways I see you mentioned my first question somewhat. I can tell you right now you are incorrect. I will tell you this so you understand as to why, no matter the Christian denominations, Anti-Region groups are always up in our necks for those who teach what isn't bible canon, saying that we ignore Deuteronomy 4:2 and John 10:35b.

The bible isn't 100% accurate because of various scripture violations that has tainted the scriptures, even in the days of our church Fathers, who also fought against most non bible canons that some so called Christians tried to place into what we have know today, but it didn't stop those beyond the 4th century.

We know that the bible had not only removed God's name, but placed words and meanings of words over time, adding "Jesus" or "God" where it couldn't be, examples being 1 Timothy 3:16, Revelations 1:11, 1 John 5:7, which are said to be biblical forgeries and did not reflect that of what the disciples have wrote.

It is also said that bible verses have been added to the scriptures by translators, Man-Made verses, ignoring anything that pertains to the oldest and most reliable source being the 4th century manuscripts, mainly the Septuagint. These man-made verses can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations

Forgeries: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_bibl.htm

One of the reasons why any bible other than the KJV/NKJV are not really used by majority of Christians, who tend to stick to their own bibles, despite a FEW errors being carried over, like the addition of Jesus in Jude (Jude 1:5) to make it seem Jesus saved the Egyptians, when it was his Father, this error is in the ESV, but there is a couple of bibles that are revised, and try to maintain to what the oldest sources say.

Reasons why Christians have to be careful to say that the bible is 100%, not being aware of the errors and additions that were added to the scriptures, for most Christians do not know any better, I spare for on this one because what is said is true on how some do not know this and can easily be targeted by Anti-Religious groups or in this cased, challenged by a very zealous Christian and or Muslim, or even worse, by an Atheist.

 

That being said it is already clear as day that the KJV/NKJV in my eyes is not 100% inspired and I wouldn't trust such a bible in the hands of one who will use it to preach a falsehood - let alone even tough it on bible gateway unless I have to prove something to the KJV-onlyist.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

These two versions define proskyne?  in  John 9:38 as “worship”, but you didn’t include them in your list earlier, yet you trust them.   

There is no such  2 versions prosskuneos, there is only one (if anything "part" of proskuneo is latreuo/latreuó -evidently means the same thing), let alone, there is only a single Strong's number for such word. John 9:38 has an occurrence of proskuneo and it is exactly of what I said previously.

proskuneo=proskuneó=proskyne?=pros-koo-neh'-o=?????????

I wouldn't really have to include them, for regardless of how it is pronounced, it means that same thing, one Strong, one Greek. The Strong's says it all, for if you clicked on the link it will be there.

For 2 different cannot can't have the same Strong's. It is somehow ridiculous to think as such.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

In each case, when concerning Jesus in the NWT, “proskyneo” is not defined as “worship”, with Rev. 5:12-14 as an exception; and there they HAD to, because God is mentioned.

Not really, for proskuneos is render to either of the words it is related to, for no one is foolish enough to trade religious worship of God to the Son because someone decided between adorn or worship, but ending up sticking with "worship", and there is only one denomination who will do such a thing.

Jesus in the NWT? There is only one Jesus, and there is only one Septuagint. As I said before, there is only one proskuneo, one Strong's, there is not another version of it, nor is there another Jesus, nor is there another God.

Revelations 5:12-14 - Proskuneo. Plus we see who is saying that word, and it was not God the Father. What is said in Revelations was that:

verse 12 is the angels and myriads saying what is said, for they have said the following: Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!

The next verse: To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!, continues with the four creatures saying “Amen! and onward, the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo).

Why is this so? The verse points to Matthew 28:18, for Jesus has been given authority and power, next, we know he has become Lord and has risen because God has resurrected him, next, we know God had exalted him, made him above the angels in Heaven, therefore God's only command is seen in Hebrews, and the Angels bowed down to him or in this case, proskuneo.

Now after the Messianic reign, it is a totally different situation, thus making God's true objective become known, for his original plan will be set in motion.

There is a reason as to why such verses point back to the Four Gospels quite often and occasionally Hebrews.

God didn't say a word here in regards to John's vision, well in this specific chapter of course.

Facts:

In the Septuagint – the Greek Old Testament – ?????????? is used to express the concept of bowing to show respect to a person in a position of authority; but it is also used to convey the concept of showing reverence and submission, either to the true God of Israel or to the false gods of paganism. About seventy-five percent of the occurrences of ?????????? in the Septuagint express the concept of worship, whether it be of the God of Israel or of the gods of paganism. The following are examples of this word being used to express the concept of worship to the God of Israel: the servant of Abraham bowed down in worship (??????????) of the Lord after he found a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:26); the Israelites in Egypt bowed in worship of God when they heard that God was going to deliver them (Exodus 4:31); during the dedication of Solomon's Temple—when the people saw the temple filled with the glory (remember what I said before about temple dwelling) of the Lord—they fell face down upon the ground and worshipped (??????????) the Lord (2 Chronicles 7:3).

1 hour ago, Witness said:

In the case of Satan, it is frequently, if not always, defined as “worship”; as well as with God.

Hypocrisy.

The Septuagint, the very manuscript that enables us to even have bibles today, it isn't hypocrisy for that is what we have for the originals have been destroyed. What is hypocrisy is those who tampered with the scriptures over time, something I stated here time and time again, Textual Criticism and the use of the oldest source possible.

I believe, as do many others, Satan did have involvement with having his agents tamper with scripture, this is why today translations that try to restore bible verses to its original form, well from the copy, omit verses that you would normally find in the KJV/NKJV, for the verses found, there is quite a few, are not biblical canon - and such persons add to the word uninspired things not of God, examples like the poison and snakes, that Jesus saved an adulterous woman, things like that, to which believe believe to be true when in reality it is false.

But Hebrew and Greek professor even acknowledge that in some translations, worship is throw into places it should be - the reason for this is some translations are attempting to pain Jesus as Yahweh/Jehovah, in doing so.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

John 5:23 – “so that all people may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.”

Already obvious from my older posts. By honoring the Son, you honor the Father, vice versa. this reflects what is seen in Luke 10:16, John 15:23 and 1 John 2:23.

But for John 5:23, Greek Strong's #5091 is being used here, 3 times it has been used. ???????, not ???????????.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Who was listening to this conversation?  Only Jesus and Satan were involved, and Jesus was reminding Satan who HE should worship.  Jesus obviously worships the Father.    This does not take away relative worship due Christ by mankind.

Yes, but what you need to pay attention to is what Jesus said prior to his words, of what he is quoting from "It is Written" For the very law itself of which Jesus quoted is in the Hebrew Old Testament, the Tanakh, but specifically in the Torah, of which a majority of the laws of which every born Jew followed from their youth into adulthood, and into their elderly life.

Majority of Christians, even a few newbie Jehovah's Witnesses, tend to not be aware of such things, and when one becomes aware of this, they recognize that Jesus, was a born Jew under the law, and I have said this before, and I will quote what the Law met to Jesus.

For if the people knew God and they knew the Christ, they know of whom they are to religiously worship with total and exclusive devotion, for God not only said this, for it is, again embedded in the Torah.

The law was ridiculously important to Jesus and when he quotes, speaks of the law, he means it.

Galatians 4:4 reads: But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law (see Matthew 5:17)

In addition to that, in the Greek New Testament, Jesus conversed with scribes, and he spoke of the law, in regards to the commandants in the gospel of Mark, which what Jesus speaks of what is written is straight out of the Torah.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” ^36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”^37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” ^38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.  John 9:35-38

Again proskuneos, for even in other translations, to bow down, to worship, to honor, pay homage, show reverence, adorn, etc. as I said before on this word.

The man did not bow down to show an act of religious worship, he showed an act of reverence to the Son of Man, for if he religiously worshiped Jesus then it would destroyed what was written entirely of the very laws of which the Jews had followed since the days of Moses - if the Son is standing before them, surely they wouldn't do such, turning away from religiously worshiping him over the God of Israel, the Father of the very man who has been sent.

If you had Jesus on your left side, and Yahweh/Jehovah on your right side, to whom you show worship in terms of ,adoration, reverence, homage, honor to and to whom you show religiously exclusive worship, great praise, servitude to?

The answer would be quite obvious, but anyways, John 9 will not do you much, for majority of Christians agree that proskuneos has several meanings, and that it should not be abused to support the doctrine of religious Jesus worship instead of God the Father.

For Yahweh/Jehovah is the Father of our Lord and Savior and a number of times Jesus even said it clearly that Yahweh is indeed his God and his Father.

John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Did Jesus stop him?  No.  You mentioned somewhere here, that you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible.  Now, it appears you are leaning on the NWT when it suits you.  I find that rather interesting.

You can't be serious... That is one of the oldest tricks some Christians will pull to justify something - in this case, devoted religious worship to Jesus instead of the Father, Yahweh.I wouldn't say if they stopped him or not, for if you understood how translators did this, they fit proskuneo with worship, and those who do not see scripture or put themselves in the mindset of those who lived in those days, they will easily confuse themselves, identifying the word worship in regards to religious worship. This was the same case in Luke chapter 24 (more detailed in Acts 1), with Pentecost taking place in Acts 2.

And no, the NWT isn't the only one who uses other words that reflect proskuneos, let's not be hypocritical here. I have listed about several bibles in another thread in regards to proskuneos, and I will gladly re-post them here.

John 9:38

Twentieth Century New Testament (TCNT)-1898-1901

Then, Sir, I do believe," said the man, bowing to the ground before him;

Good News Translation (GNT)- [1966-1976]

"I believe, Lord!" the man said, and knelt down before Jesus.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (ABP)- 1905-1997

But he said, “I believe, my Lord”, and falling down, he worshiped him.

God's Word Translation (GWT)- [1995]

The man bowed in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord."

Douay-Rheims Bible (DRB)-[1582] 

And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.

Darby Bible Translation (DBT)- [1867, with revised editions in 1872 and 1884]

And he said, I believe, Lord: and he did him homage.

Weymouth New Testament (WNT)- [1903]

"I believe, Sir," he said. And he threw himself at His feet.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)- [1862]

and he said, 'I believe, sir,' and bowed before him.

For the sake of the verse, I will post what it says in the NWT

New World Translation (NWT)- [1984, revised 2013]

He said: “I do put faith in him, Lord.” And he did obeisance to him.

The list goes on, literally, in addition to those who put proskuneos in its place and or reverence, etc within said translations.

For there are a lot of bible translations that will put worship and a lot more that will use a word that is related to proskuneos, but the question is where to use it, the right place to use it, etc, for a word placed in the wrong spot can easily shift false belief, examples like 1 Timothy 3:16, 1 John 5:7-8, etc.

No verse, no matter the translation ever states that the man religiously gave devoted worship to Jesus, for the man simply did an act of proskuneos, be it honor, worship, obeisance, bowing down/to, homage, reverence, etc. That being said, I will not waste time putting information from both Hebraic and Greek Theologians and scholars on that word, for it is easily understood if one puts him or herself in the mindset of those in ancient days.

Facts: in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 

????????? (proskyne?/proskuneó) Greek Strong's #4352 - Short Definition: I worship Definition: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

bow down (1), bow down before (1), bowed down (1), bowed down before (2), bowing before (1), bowing down (1), prostrated himself before (1), worship (32), worshiped (17), worshipers (1), worshiping (1), worships (1) from pros and kuneó (to kiss).

Not really, I do not adhere to the KJV nor do I adhere to the NKJV (or any bible  that considers it's falsehood biblical canon, in addition to those that preach that uninspired verses are true), you'd be wise by now to know how I view such bibles, for I rely on bibles that stick to the oldest and most reliable sources possible, for the KJV and the NKJV stems far from this. For if anyone had noticed, I post more from the ESV bible in majority of my comments, sometimes from other translations, but most of the time, ESV.

For you even seen my post towards Allen about Textual Criticism in regards to Mark 16, for 1-8 being inspired while verses 9-20 not being inspired, for such verses originated from the KJV translators, and such verses are nowhere to be found in the oldest source, reasons why some bibles today omitted such verses, and or restore some verses to its true meaning.

You claim just now, assuming that I said the following: you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible

KJV/NKJV? Accurate??? Never...

I welcome you to find where I said that and post it here, for everyone here knows my view of bible translations, what I use, and my strong opinions against the KJV/NKJV hence biblical hermeneutics and Textual Criticism scriptural facts, verse connection, and how important it is to stick to the oldest and most reliable source possible.

 

As for religious worship and total servitude to God the Father:

Exodus 20:3 - “You shall have no other gods before me.

Exodus 34:14 - (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

Deuteronomy 4:24 - For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Isaiah 42:8 - I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Matthew 4:10 - Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Luke 4:8 - And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”

Mark 12:28-33 (speak of the Law found in the Torah/OT; Shema Ysirael in addition to the commandments)

Laws found in the Torah (it is written)

The Shema - Deuteronomy 6:4-13

Deuteronomy 6:13 (included in the Shema Yisrael) - It is the Lord your God you shall fear. Him you shall serve and by his name you shall swear.

Deuteronomy 10:20 - You shall fear the Lord your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Heb 1:6 - But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Others will be “worshiped” as well.   Rev 3:9

Jesus' exaltation, God making him Lord, giving him the name above every other name, putting Jesus at his right hand (as said in psalms 110:1), etc.

I mean, the very title of this chapter by this writer in the NT even states the following - The Supremacy of God's Son

Proskuneos is proskuneos, for none of the angels were ever told to religiously worship Jesus with total devotion.

I refuted Cos on this weeks ago: 

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I do not want to think that the glory of the Christ is hidden from you, as it is from JWs.  But, it appears to be.  Luke 9:28,29; 2 Pet 1:17,18; John 1:14; 17:1-5

Negative, friend, Jesus isn't hidden from me because half the things I even said isn't being read by you, and every word and every post I make is 100% fact and true, especially in regards to scripture - and you assuming I said something which I have not said is a big error is , for a guy like me who has been against the errors in the KJV/NKJV since childhood, I would never turn my back and say such uninspired verses used in that bible is accurate, nor would I preach it as some do, or in this case, I would never state that such a bible is 100% for its practice of mixing inspired with uninspired to blind the masses, but here, no such words of me saying it is accurate is ever typed by me, for my view of the KJV/NKJV borderline Nazareth Vow levels, so to speak, if you know what that is.

Anyways, I can easily correct how those last couple of verses you just posted without even taking into consideration of what they connect to, but I will spare you this time - unless you misuse verses and or mixing verses that do not connect with each other, or connecting things from scripture be it OT or NT when in reality they do not connect, which is some, for this goes for anyone. And knowing myself and experiences, I know what is true and what is false, and those who practice close to what is true vs those who adhere to what is false.

For if Christ is hidden from me, I would not have been able to correct your wrongs, your errors, and the like, but if Christ is truly with you and you said I claim the NKJV is accurate, and I quote: You mentioned somewhere here, that you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible.  Now, it appears you are leaning on the NWT when it suits you.  I find that rather interesting. - Witness

I want you to be truthful about your words, to yourself, to everyone here, to Jesus, and to God the Father, who all are witnesses here and I want you to give direct proof of me saying that such things - if you cannot, then it is evident of whom Christ is truly hidden from.

Do not expect to take parts of what I said and make it seem as I said such things, for I can easily pull up my comments from my history. I can tell you right now straight up, I do have a few typos elsewhere, but never would I acknowledge the KJV or the NKJV to be accurate, as you claim.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Thank you for your thoughts, and you made very good points; yet, I am not trying to prove that Jesus is God the Father.  I recognize him as the Savior and Son God sent us, and one He expects us to listen to.

“While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said: “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased. Listen to him!”  Matt 17:5

And if He wants our attention to be focused on His Son as our Savior, then, we should call on him.

Very well, but it still doesn't help you here, for you have said the following: It is the name of Jesus Christ that should be placed in Rom 10:13

For it is true and clear as to what is really means prior to translators changing it: everyone who calls on the name of the YHWH will be saved. Therefore, the JWs are not in error in regards to Romans 10:13, nor is anyone who restores YHWH to that verse, or those who know which "Lord" the verse is informing us about.

As for your other response: And if He wants our attention to be focused on His Son as our Savior, then, we should call on him.

Remember of what is said already: no one can come to Jehovah/Yahweh but through Jesus (John 14:6), and no other means has been given by Jehovah/Yahweh for salvation than the name of Jesus. (Acts 4:12). For believing in the Christ enables one to receive the gift of God's grace by means of his Son - the free and full forgiveness of sin(s) through Christ.

Also every knows why Jesus is called "Lord" already, so what the early Christians said in 1 Corinthians 1:2 is correct - for they too know that God has made the Christ Lord the very day he resurrected the Christ - hence why they thank God for the Christ, in addition to the words of Isaiah, for this verse connects to.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

JWs cannot do this.  They cannot call on Christ since it is deemed “worship” – which, according to scripture, giving relative worship to Jesus is perfectly acceptable to God. 1 Cor 15:27,28  This is another alteration that the Wt. has succeeded in doing with the Bible, and the word “proskuneo”.  Jer 23:26; 2 Pet 3:16

On the contrary they have, if you even took into account of what I just explained previously. proskuneo also means worship (http://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm), as well as obeisance, honor, reverence, homage, bow to/down to, etc. The very word that Cos, an Anti-JW around here, didn't get through his head, hence the heavy refuting to each of  his response drove him away from this section of the forums, in addition to hims caught lying, for him using John 8:44 backfired on him.

1 Corinthians 15 verses 27 and 28 does not imply of which you said in regards to the following: worship to Jesus is perfectly acceptable to God.

You must remember as to why God subjected all things to him, and also strongly remember of what God had said in regards to religiously worship and servitude him, don't add to God's word, friend for the very account those verses are under is in regards to The Resurrection of the Dead (Risen Christ).

Yes, we are to honor the Son, in turn honoring the Father, but as I told Cos before, taking away religious worship of the Father and doing such to the Son and he alone will only spell a not so pleasant response from God, for Jesus himself, he even taught it is God the Father we must worship, remember when you quoted the account of the Samaritan woman, same thing.

You really need to be careful.

In addition to that, verses 27 and 28 have several other verses that they connect to, which further disproves your claim.

For Jesus' response to Satan was clear as the blue sky and the sea: ‘You shall worship the Lord [YHWH] your God and him only shall you serve. - Matthew 4:10 (see Deuteronomy 5:9, 6:13, 10:20 and Luke 4:8).

That being said, when one considers "religious worship" be sure to know to whom you are showing this "religious worship" to. For the idea or practice of "religious worship" to God's Son, Jesus calls in the category of Arianism, which is still a belief that is practiced today.

You really have to be careful and not take the word proskuneo with a grain of salt, for better understanding of what that word means will make you very well aware of the word and how it is used in scripture and where it is used, for many translations tend to just throw the word "worship" everywhere proskuneo is even found. For such a word have several meanings, one of which includes the word worship.

 

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Of course, Christians knew Jesus!  You stopped at Romans 10:13.  He then addresses the unbelief of Israel – God’s chosen nation - about the Christ, and proves to me that in the case of Rom 10:13,  “Lord” – “kyrios” refers to Jesus.

Negative. I only focused on Romans 10:13 as well as other verses within chapter 10 - for you have stated the NWT was in error in regards to this verse, which is a false claim on your part. I have not ignored a book in the bible, nor have I ever done so in the decades of biblical study.

"Kyrios" does refer to Jesus, however, it also does refer to God the Father as well, as do others - scriptural facts prove this also.

Kyrios means Lord, which also relates to Sir, Master, Owner, etc.

David was the Lord (Kyrios) of Israel. So we see, for example, that Yahweh was the Lord of Israel and David was the Lord of Israel (1 Kings 1:36). The authority structure with God and Jesus is exactly the same. God made David the Lord of Israel and now God has made David's son Jesus the Lord of all the world. We would not assume that David is Yahweh because God had made him Lord.

Abraham is Sarah's Lord, so Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have grown old, and my Lord is old, shall I have pleasure?" (Genesis 18:12; see 1 Peter 3:9). Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him "Lord" (1 Peter 3:6).

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he arose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth, and said, "My Lords, turn aside, I pray you, to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise up early and go on your way."

"Lords [Paul and Silas], what must I do to be saved? (Acts 16:31). There are numerous people in scripture who are called "Lord (Kyrios)." As we can see the word Kyrios isn't exclusive to Jesus or YHWH - but anyone can identity which "Lord" is which between the two.

For in regards to Romans 10:13, "Lord" is a directly referring to God the Father, not Jesus - for Jesus had already been mention as Lord a couple verses prior to verse 13 and the one who saves is indeed the Father, for his grace by means of his Son allows forgiveness of Sin.

Take a good look here: http://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Rom 10:14 – 21:

Again - The Message of Salvation to All. Believing and saying that Jesus, the Risen Christ is Lord and believing in the One [YHWH] who has raised him from out of death.

All of Romans 10 is based on the message of salvation that is for all, friend. Since you use bible gateway, you can see that for yourself clearly.

As for the other verses, I am well aware of what Paul has said, as also him affirming something that Jesus followed to the core while he was in his youth.

That being said, there is a big number of verses of which each verses has a connection to, with some pointing back to what I stated previously, thus such verses when read are harmoniously connected, as stated before.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

This means exposing those who claim they are stewards, yet breathe wayward doctrine; new light that becomes empty speech and most certainly is falsely called, knowledge.  This is a conspiracy when a leader teaches falsehood, and later dismisses it without apology; further covering up their ignorance by blaming it on Christ for not feeding them “proper food”.  Acts 20:28-30; Matt 7:15-20; 2 Cor 10:3-5  You do know this, don't you?

I suggest you re-check your verses. I am very well adept in scripture and what is and must be taught and the like, and know what is true and what is false. You are making a claims you will surely not cash, friend.

For falsehood can clearly be seen by sheer discernment and or what one prompting what is false is saying, assumption or taking the word of an Anti-Christian isn't the best route to go, for it clouds judgement and brings forth falsehood.

"The picking of bad fruits will reap the consequence of bad indigestion."

For the same can be said for taking in something and automatically clinging to it without understanding and or taking what is true, thus consequence follows suit in regards to one's blindness.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Babylon, meaning confusion, which “new light” most certainly is; cannot be a physical place referenced in the symbolic book of Revelation, but a promise. Isa 28.  I realize you know quite a bit about the history of the Watchtower, and I believe part of its teachings.  However, you don’t know what it is to be a JW for over 30 years – to believe each and every doctrine that changes like a blown light bulb, and to be gullibly accepting of obedience to men; only to find out that it is a prophetic delusion used to mislead God’s authentic anointed people.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13: 1,5-7,11-18

I do not know quite a bit, I am very well aware of who they are, what they teach, what is their belief, etc. I have spent a 5+ years understanding their faith, as with others such as other denominations as well as the likes of Islam and Judaism, as well as mainstream Christianity, the real Babylon to true faith in scripture. Unlike taking into account of YouTube videos made by obvious opponents of the JWs, I actually speak to them for quite some time to understand their view of scripture., and with enough study and the like, I understand of where they are coming from, for they are among those who are doing whatever it takes not only to imitate Jess' example but strive to do what the scriptures say no matter what.

You can bring up whatever claim you wish, for what has been posted before is usually one sided, but I can assure you, there is more than enough proof, that puts most Christians on their side in seeking truth than against them.

You'd be amazed of how some of their opponents will even want to end Christianity in the US just to get rid of JWs, it is a brutal threat, and it has been said before prior to their ban in Russia, with some who retaliate saying if such was done to them in the US, it will spell disaster to Christianity as a whole in America.

It is also another reason why most of us remain totally, 100% neutral with JWs - because we know by scripture of how God views our actions, and inciting, prompting, taking part, being part of, Christian infighting, persecution, conspiracy against such faith will spell disaster for us in the End Times.

This is why even at the CSE Christian community, attacking their doctrine, speaking bad about them, and the like will only cause the JW opponent to be warned and or kicked out - for such attitude is Un-Christian, and it is unacceptable.

That being said, one understanding the bible and or the scriptures, history too, over time, does not reflect a change in doctrine, an example would be that JWs, in the Bible Student Era once celebrated Christmas, until later on they gain knowledge through study and knew off the bat that Christmas isn't to be celebrated, thus how JWs are today with such holiday and or any Holiday for that matter, for the only thing they celebrate is the Memorial of the Christ. Over time, other Christians have followed suit, and I have posted this already to that Swihii guy on this forum, which you yourself have known this since you made comment on that same thread.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear uses “me” in the word-for-word, but deletes it when translating it to the more readable version.  When asking Jesus anything in line with God’s will, which is calling on his name to do so, we then “listen to him” through his spiritual guidance.

Friend, you really need to study Greek, do not make the mistake as most mainstream Christians make. "me" or "my" in Greek is μοῦ (mou) Greek Strong's #3450. It also relates to "I", "me", "mine" "own", "my" (The simpler form of emou [of me]). μοῦ used in that verse (John 14:13 and also 14), so them revising it isn't all that of a major issue, unless you do not understand Greek or Strong's or if the JWs took out the Strong's entirely for a different word. Another thing to take into account is "me" also equals to another word in Greek, μέ (me) Greek Strong's #3165 which relates to  "I", "me ", "my" (A shorter (and probably originally) from of eme [me]). For both μοῦ and μέ are basically identical and both have been used many, many times in scripture.

http://biblehub.com/greek/3450.htm

http://biblehub.com/greek/3165.htm

Other Strong's I will add here so you can better understand:

Emou (ἐμοῦ) Greek Strong's #1700 - http://biblehub.com/greek/1700.htm

Eme (ἐμέ) Greek Strong's #1691 - http://biblehub.com/greek/1691.htm

egó (ἐγώ) Greek Strong's #1473 - http://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm

There are several others that are identical also.

14:13  καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁπατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ

14:14  ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου ἐγὼ ποιήσω

14:15  Ἐὰν ἀγαπᾶτέ με τὰς ἐντολὰς τὰς ἐμὰς τηρήσατε

Jehovah's Witnesses Interlinear Bible Translation in Quote:

Quote

¹³ καὶand ὅτιwhatἂνlikelyαἰτήσητεYOU should askἐνinτῷtheὀνόματίnameμουof meτοῦτοthisποιήσω,I will do,ἵναin order thatδοξασθῇmight be glorifiedὁtheπατὴρFatherἐνinτῷtheυἱῷ·Son; ¹⁴ ἐάνif ever τιanythingαἰτήσητέYOU should askμεmeἐνinτῷtheὀνόματίnameμουof meτοῦτοthisποιήσω.I shall do.¹⁵ ᾿ΕὰνIf ever ἀγαπᾶτέYOU may be lovingμε,me,τὰςtheἐντολὰςcommandmentsτὰςtheἐμὰςmineτηρήσετε·

Other Interlinear versions:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/14.htm

http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/john/14.html

http://www.gospel-john.com/greek/chapter-14.html

Note: Some Interlinear versions will remove the word, delete, completely instead of using anything from the Strong's or the manuscript. Reason: Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus (among others)

The Link below has several versions of this verse (it shows you literally everything, even the vulgate), I will quote for both verses 13 and 14

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm

John 14:13 - http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm#V13

John 14:14 - http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm#V14

John 15:15 - http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm#V15

several more, but I will limit it to these two, you get the idea (the section like you can click on John 14 verses 13, 14 and or 15 and it will direct you to the verse instead of scrolling down entirely.)

So if the JWs were wrong with their Interlinear, they those who wrote the Septuagint are in fault, the very high regarded source of which the Bible and the scriptures within the Bible originates from.

But anyways, anyone who translates and or revives will take into account for what the Strong's say, and will place what they see fit in the translations, as long as it equals exactly to what the Strong's word means.

Your claim of them being in error, is false - especially if the Strong's is accessible to the public who is even aware of such information - Ancient Greek.

All in all, technically, it isn't a deletion of the word, unless you remove it 100% and or replace it with something other than what the Strong's or the manuscripts says.

So therefore, the The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures from the Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses isn't in error.

For you have a clear look at ALL the translations who base the scripture and or verse on the Septuagint and you can see who has it right quite easily.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

As far as stewards – each anointed one is a steward of God’s Word to protect it and guard against falsehoods.

I already made comment to that of which you did not mention. Stewards among the Christian faith are those with duties of a stewardship, those who take seriousness and high consideration in the spreading of the gospel, as well as teaching it -  Shepherds to Flock, Disciple to Student, Teacher to Pupil etc. Jesus speaks  of prophecy concerning the end days and tribulations, he speaks of those who are to help in this work, those taking lead in spreading the gospel, who serves as stewards for him, a manager over the household of faith.

20 hours ago, Witness said:

If it were the right way, it would be comprehensible; something to rely on 5 years down the road - spiritual food that wouldn’t perish with time.  John 6:27

I believe the JWs know John 6:27 very well, as do others among within Restorationism faction, and such is very evident.

On the JW's end regarding that verse, their information is:

Quote

food that perishes . . . food that remains for everlasting life: Jesus understood that some people were associating with him and his disciples solely for material advantage. While physical food sustains people day by day, “food” from God’s Word will make it possible for humans to stay alive forever. Jesus urges the crowd to work . . . for “the food that remains for everlasting life,” that is, to put forth effort to satisfy their spiritual need and to exercise faith in what they learn.—Mt 4:4; 5:3; Joh 6:28-39.

verse 27 points to John 4:14, John 17:3 and Romans 6:23 regarding Eternal Life while God's seal of approval, in that same verse, points to Matthew 3:17, Acts 2:2 and 2 Peter 1:17, for such verses connect harmoniously with each other. As for the food that perishes, physical food that we eat - Matthew 6:31-33.

 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Really, the things you assume about me.  They were true prophets.

“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. ^ I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to my words that he speaks in my name. ^ But the prophet who presumes to speak a message in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’ You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ ^22 When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.  Deut 18:18-22

I believe this was explained with what I stated before in terms of the Belief of the Samaritans. That prophet that was raised up was indeed Jesus himself, the Messiah and Christ of whom those on Mount Gerizim were looking forward to, as with the things to come.

I have already went into detail of this before, but it remains, True Christians, like the Samaritans,await the Messiah to return, and in doing so, they continue to give praise, worship and servitude to God the Father at the same time while accepting what Jesus taught and practicing, preaching the gospel and the like.

There is no error in doing so.

As for the comment of raising up a prophet, I answered this before to you in regards to your response:

 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

If the Watchtower had been sticking close to the scriptures for over a 100 years, there would be no failed list of teachings/prophesies.  Deut 18:18-22 would have put enough fear in its leaders to keep them focused solely on the Word of Christ and not on packaging their own brand of “truth” – a mixed bag of “made up stories”.  2 Pet 2:1-3

They have been sticking to scripture, nor has anything failed with them - for if one understands, researches from the prospective of the Jehovah's Witnesses, you will know quite easily their position. That is why anyone with basic bible Hermeneutics will not buy in to conspiracy, as you so obviously have with your pasts posts. Again, Deuteronomy 18:18-22, look at the link to my response to your comment, of which I brought up those verses from the Torah before. If the JWs also agree with the Samaritan, it does not put them at fault, as you claim.

Lastly, you claim before that: Believing 100% in scripture would motivate a true Christian to expose the lies, would it not? Gal 1:6-9; Eph 5:8-14; Isa 32:6-8; Luke 6:43-45

The answer would be (my response): Believing 100% that the scripture has been tampered with over the years would motivate a true Christian to expose the lies and speak truth.

Yet  most True Christians, like me, adhere to Textual Criticism, which easily debunks such claim of saying the bible is 100% inspired (especially when it comes to the KJV/NKJV), for the very scriptures itself has been tampered with over time -  one of the reason why you have Translators restoring verses to its original form from the copies they have in the best way as they can, examples like Romans 10:13 while those who do not do anything and accept what is false are called out for Hebraic Violation when it comes to the Tanakh (Hebrew Old Testament) and Hermeneutical Violations regarding the Greek New Testament.

So it is safe to say the JWs, especially when it comes to the bible follows it and as do others who at times use several others translations, for they are not in error or false prophets here in terms of scriptural teachings. For such persons do not reflect that of mainstream Christianity, for these people cherry pick, and teach differently according to what the bible says, for they do so, knowingly.

Jesus said the scriptures cannot be broken or nullified, as well as the laws in his day (John 10:35), and God the Father had said that we must not add to the word or take away from it/change it (Deuteronomy 4:2).

The scriptures and what took place aren't made up stories either.

On 3/6/2018 at 11:45 PM, AllenSmith said:

If you have to ask, your further off than I thought.

There are too many for you to choose from, how, you are condemning yourself by condemning others. And you call yourself a WITNESS, witness of what?

Luke 6:37-42 New International Version (NIV)

Judging Others

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Read these words, and convince yourself that, these words donÂ’t apply to you. However, I do understand the handicap you have in bible understanding.

 

 

I guess you can't comprehend this either, hmmm!

 

The Watchtower teaching, are solely based on Christ Teachings by following his example, of preaching the good news and obeying God. Which teachings are you following, Christ? or your own, with your own understanding? IÂ’ll stick with scripture.

 

There are thousands according to ex-witnesses and opposers like you. You can list them all. It's not like I haven't already seen them. There are several witnesses here that buy into that idea too and will agree with you. JWinsider doesn't buy into the idea of 607BC, or 1914AD. Some are convinced 1975 was the Watchtowers fault instead of eager people. They'll quote the publications they think show the Watchtower mislead them. Everyone has a way of understanding the Watchtower Literature. Too bad it hasn't been the right way. In your case? Just remember, what all that ignorance suggest, between a false vision and BIBLE PROPHECY! I guess you like condemning the ancient prophets along with Jesus, too. Since that's what the Watchtower has been referring to for over a hundred years. Noah had the same problem, oh well!

How disappointing!

 

Just like in the days of Noah. History has already repeated itself, but this time the bible, any translation, some people will conjure up a false teaching or an attack to gun for those knowing the truth and or remotely close to truth.

Only this time, it won't be a flood, and just like before, it cannot be avoided.

Also I believe there are some Watchtower publications and information that some JW opponents wouldn't dare quote from or even bring up into conversation, for in doing so, will put their attack on the JW faith to a halt, and the consequences of embarrassment and falsehood of the JW opponent to be put into the light - especially when it comes to the 1975 date (interestingly enough, the "6,000 years" portion is rarely mention by JW opponents in terms of man's creation as seen in the publications of JWs regarding 1975).

That being said, around 1974-1975, or so, the Jehovah's Witnesses were told not to speculate on what may or may not happen.

This is why some Christians among the Non-Trinitarian faith (only a few denominations acknowledge this) are always told, those who are closer to the truth than most are still considered our brothers and sisters, for we are all children of God, for they too want to be seen in the eyes of God in having the faith and doing the works, taking into account of Jesus' examples and teachings - for what is to come they will benefit, and as do other good and faithful ones who put in the effort and the time as well, but to those who adhere to falsehood, and evil, will most definitely be brought forth before the white throne for judgement.